Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: GSNW on June 29, 2013, 12:33:44 AM

Title: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: GSNW on June 29, 2013, 12:33:44 AM
My mom asked if she could throw a birthday party for me this year.  I'll be in my hometown for my bday and I said sure, it's just a casual backyard BBQ kind of thing.  My mom is a great hostess and loves to get people together over mounds of food.  Having lived in the same area for almost 30 years, they know their neighbors, and many of these neighbors have kids near my age that I was good friends with growing up and am in touch with now etc.

My mom and I have had a bit of a disagreement over inviting one family in particular.  She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.  I am friends with their youngest daughter (who lives far away) but I do NOT like the mother, at all, because of something that happened when I was 13.  She treated me terribly during an extremely traumatic incident and I have never gotten over how insignificant and awful she made me feel.  She knows what she did was wrong, and she has never had the guts to apologize to me.

I told my mom I don't want her there, my mom knows/understands why.  If my mom doesn't feel comfortable throwing a party where this couple is not included, I'd rather we just go to dinner or do something easier.  But mom seems stuck on the idea that there will be a BBQ and the guest list will include this couple (I have no problem with the dad, he's a wonderful person).

Part of me feels like I'm being a bit babyish, sort of an, "I don't liiike her!  Keep her away!" reflex.  Part of me feels like if I'm being thrown a birthday party, it's okay for me to say I don't want someone there who thinks so little of me.

If people feel that the actual incident is relevant, I'm fine retelling it, but I'm not sure if it is so I didn't include it initially. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Raintree on June 29, 2013, 12:51:05 AM
It's a party in your honour, so I think it's wrong to invite someone who clearly makes you feel so uncomfortable. Seems to me this woman would know why she isn't invited. If it were a general family/neighbourhood BBQ, fine, I think you'd have to grin and bear it, but since it's a party for YOU, I think your mother should lay off this feeling of obligation to invite her.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 29, 2013, 12:57:18 AM
You're not being rude at all. It's a party in your honour. You get to choose the guest list, including a right to veto any potential guests who would make you feel upset and uncomfortable.

I hope your mum realises that, and respects your wishes. But a thought occurred to me - what if your mum invites this woman behind your back? (Obviously I don't know your mum, so I don't know if she'd ever do something as awful as this, but I've been reading eHell long enough to know that anything is possible). If you think this is a possibility, I'd think of a "game plan" for handling the situation. Be it giving this woman the "cut direct" (if she shows up) or accepting her presence and treating her with cool civility, etc.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Danika on June 29, 2013, 02:25:43 AM
I agree with the PPs' thoughts.

The point of a party is to have fun and enjoy yourself. If you'd be dreading it just because of one guest, then that person should not be on the guest list. And if the one woman's feelings are hurt for not being invited, oh well, it sounds like natural consequences.

She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.

And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: lilihob on June 29, 2013, 02:29:50 AM
Slightly appalled at your mum. If a "friend" of my mum treated me badly, she would no longer be a friend of my mum. No, she should not be invited, and if your mum feels like she should, no party, dinner instead. You have the right to be comfortable at your own birthday celebration.

Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 29, 2013, 04:55:31 AM
There is nothing to get over.  You aren't comfortable with this woman.  Your mother can hang out with her/invite her over any other time.  I would put it to her in the terms you gave us here.  Either there is a BBQ and this woman is NOT invited, there is a BBQ with this woman there and WITHOUT you there, or you go out to eat with your immediate family only and no BBQ.

Your mother can't have it both ways so you have to force her to choose.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: cicero on June 29, 2013, 07:08:44 AM
what they said.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Queen of Clubs on June 29, 2013, 08:34:58 AM
She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.

And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.

I agree with this so much.  OP, your feelings should matter so much more to your mom.

I wonder if your mom is seeing this as her event (that just happens to be for your birthday), as opposed to your event (that she's throwing for you).  Since this is *your* birthday party, I think you're perfectly entitled to insist that the guests are all people *you* want to spend time with.  If your mom wants to host this woman, she can - just not in your name.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: kherbert05 on June 29, 2013, 08:42:21 AM
I agree with the PPs' thoughts.

The point of a party is to have fun and enjoy yourself. If you'd be dreading it just because of one guest, then that person should not be on the guest list. And if the one woman's feelings are hurt for not being invited, oh well, it sounds like natural consequences.

She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.

And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.
POD - Tell your Mom I don't want awful woman at my birthday party. If she responds that awful woman's feelings will be hurt - you reply My feelings will be hurt if you invite someone with a history of being cruel to me to my birthday party. Then where you go depends on Mom's response.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 29, 2013, 08:42:55 AM
Maybe you could help your mom by giving her the vocabulary to use when/if people ever say anything to her about that family not being invited.

"Oh, GSNW and them are not close anymore."
(not gramamtical, I know--sorry)


Actually, the official reason anybody was not invited to anything is, "It was a small party."

And so you might also suggest that you look over the guest list and cross a few MORE people off, simply because if your mom is "rounding up," then this omission is going to look pretty pointed to all the other people (whom she has lived among for 30 years and whom she will *still* live among).

If there's anybody else who's "borderline" in terms of whether *you* consider them to be "close," then eliminating them will camouflage the other issue. Or, will make that omission valid.

Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: JenJay on June 29, 2013, 09:20:42 AM
And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.

Well put! I'd tell my mom "You can throw a BBQ without Person or you can scrap it and we'll go out for dinner. Spending my birthday with her isn't an option I'm willing to consider."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Daydream on June 29, 2013, 10:23:33 AM
Your mother seems to want to throw a BBQ that has nothing to do with your birthday.  I'd tell her that's fine because of course she has that right, and it doesn't seem like you asked for a celebration anyway, but "Please do it when I'm not in town so I don't have to spend time with the Awful Woman you are determined to invite.  Let's have my visit be pleasant, please.   Or, if you absolutely need to have the BBQ with Awful Woman while I am visiting, I can find somewhere else to be during that time."  (That's if you really agree with that last part.  You might just want to visit some other time.)

I feel very strongly about people trying to force people to spend time with people were cruel or abusive toward them, especially when it's an adult who mistreated a child (no matter how old the mistreated person is now).  And, while I understand the urge as the mistreated person to try and avoid saying the truth out of "politeness," because I have done that my whole life up to this point, this is something I am now trying to change because it only protects the Awful Person and places part or all of the blame on the person they mistreated. 

So, if anyone asks about your or Awful Woman's absence, I would ask your mother to not say anything "diplomatic" like "Awful Woman and GSNW just don't get along anymore," because that's not the reality.  It's not a "two way street" and has nothing to do with any decision you made in your treatment of her.  This isn't someone who accidentally tripped and spilled something on you, or disagreed with you about what TV sitcom was best, and you stormed off in a huff and unreasonably declared you no longer wanted to have anything to do with her.  This is someone who purposefully hurt you, and you should not be held in any way responsible for that.   

If anyone is crass enough to demand an explanation for why Awful Woman was not invited to your birthday party, or is wondering why you are absent from the BBQ while you are in town, I think your mother should tell them the truth:   "Awful Woman does not like GSNW, so I did not invite her to the birthday party.  Beandip?"  or  "Awful Woman does not like GSNW, and has shown so in her mistreatment of her, but it was more important to me to have Awful Woman at my BBQ than GSNW.  Beandip?"   (This is if you're comfortable with that.)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: MrTango on June 29, 2013, 10:24:14 AM
And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.

Well put! I'd tell my mom "You can throw a BBQ without Person or you can scrap it and we'll go out for dinner. Spending my birthday with her isn't an option I'm willing to consider."

There's a third option: If the OP's mother insists on inviting this person to the BBQ, the OP can decide not to attend.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: RegionMom on June 29, 2013, 10:29:27 AM
You said the friend's mom knows what she said/did when you were 13 was wrong, but she has never apologized. 
I think that is worse than an off the cuff remark that she really did not know was hurtful. 

It is your party, so have one more chat with your mom to explain, and then do what is right for you to do based on what she decides in whose hurt feelings she considers.

happy birthday!!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: cwm on June 29, 2013, 10:31:52 AM
First off, happy birthday!

I think you're right in standing your ground. This is an event planned to celebrate you, and you don't want to be miserable at it.

If my sister ever planned something for me and invited my dad, it would be a hands down no go for me. I wouldn't even show up. If your mom wants to invite this person, tell her in no uncertain terms that if she does, you'll be glad to make a token appearance, but you will not be staying for the whole party. It's your right to avoid people who you don't want to be around.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 29, 2013, 10:34:24 AM
Quote
If anyone is crass enough to demand an explanation for why Awful Woman was not invited to your birthday party, or is wondering why you are absent from the BBQ while you are in town, I think your mother should tell them the truth:   "Awful Woman does not like GSNW, so I did not invite her to the birthday party.  Beandip?"  or  "Awful Woman does not like GSNW, and has shown so in her mistreatment of her, but it was more important to me to have Awful Woman at my BBQ than GSNW.  Beandip?"   (This is if you're comfortable with that.)

I think that's a lot of drama, and I think it's unfair to the OTHER people to give them that answer.

Even if they did pry, they shouldn't be dragged into something.

And it is not *automatically* prying to say, "Oh, could Awful Woman not come to the B'day BBQ? I know GSNW and her daughter were very close! I thought she'd be here."

Nor is it automatically prying to say, "Oh, I was sure we'd see GSNW at the big BBQ, since she's visiting you now. Where is she?"

And GSNW's mother is the one who has to live with the drama that might get created.

Why create it? GSNW didn't really ask for that--she just wants not to deal with this woman. Bringing up the antipathy is just going to make GSNW and her mom look bad. AND it's going to mean that the meanness of Awful Woman has a far longer life and impacts even MORE people.

I'm not saying GSNW needs to absorb more abuse. Far from it. In fact, I think creating drama will draw MORE abuse, because every time she comes home, all the other people will try to argue her out of feeling abused, etc.
 
I'm just saying, "Let it drop, as a topic of conversation. Let it go away. Don't bring it up." And don't invite her to the party.

The idea behind cutting someone off is that you don't keep giving them headspace. Or conversation space.

(oh, yeah, and happy b'day, GSNW!)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on June 29, 2013, 10:41:19 AM
First off, happy birthday!

I think you're right in standing your ground. This is an event planned to celebrate you, and you don't want to be miserable at it.

If my sister ever planned something for me and invited my dad, it would be a hands down no go for me. I wouldn't even show up. If your mom wants to invite this person, tell her in no uncertain terms that if she does, you'll be glad to make a token appearance, but you will not be staying for the whole party. It's your right to avoid people who you don't want to be around.

I agree with all the comments above and this one, except I would NOT make a token appearance if this woman is invited.  I'd let Mom choose.  Do I want Nasty Woman Who Hurt My Daughter at my BBQ or do I want my daughter there?  Which will it be.  It's either/or.  Not and.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Aquamarine on June 29, 2013, 10:49:37 AM
Stand your ground!  Tell your mother she has two choices:  first is a party with this woman in attendance but without you being there.  The second choice is a party without this woman's presence and with you being present.  Tell her to pick one and you will act accordingly.  Ask her if she would have this other woman's feelings be bruised or yours.

It really is a simple choice.  Whatever you do I would not just go along with tolerating this other woman's presence.  Anyone that would have traumatized me at 13 would not be on my good list as an adult.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: AnnaJ on June 29, 2013, 10:50:13 AM
Maybe dinner with family for your birthday, and if your mom wants to throw an impromptu barbeque while you are visiting and invite people, you could still see everyone without the focus being on you, the birthday person.  The reason for the latter is that if she does invite Othermother you wouldn't be expected to interact with her on the basis of 'you: guest of honor, her: guest" - your mother would be the hostess and the onus would fall on her.

This suggestion only works if, since you were thirteen, you have interacted with her politely in public and not given her the cut direct.  I can understand not wanting her at an event in your honor - who wants to deal with people they don't like at their own birthday party? - but as a guest of your mother's, at a separate event, there would be no reason to do more than politely nod then go off and chat with friends. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: citadelle on June 29, 2013, 10:57:09 AM
I disagree with the majority. Whatever happened was a long time ago. I am sure it was hurtful, and I don't mean to minimize that, but it should be easy to avoid her at the party and have a great time with everyone else. I don't see that your mom is being purposely hurtful, just maybe trying to move on from the past.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: runnermom71 on June 29, 2013, 10:58:46 AM
OP, I agree with the other posters. I think it's completely appropriate to tell your mom that you'd like to celebrate your birthday without the presence of Nasty Woman Who Hurt You. Then it's up to her what she'd like to plan. I do like the idea of the drama-free family dinner. You can always get together with your own neighborhood friends separately if you have the time and inclination.

Hope you have a lovely birthday, however you celebrate.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 29, 2013, 11:03:35 AM
I disagree with the majority. Whatever happened was a long time ago. I am sure it was hurtful, and I don't mean to minimize that, but it should be easy to avoid her at the party and have a great time with everyone else. I don't see that your mom is being purposely hurtful, just maybe trying to move on from the past.

It's not up to GSNW's mother to "move on". It's up to GSNW if she wants to do so.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: NyaChan on June 29, 2013, 11:11:47 AM
OP,

This is really hitting home with me - my parents did this to me only it was the same week as the awful incident, and they invited the person without telling me first.  I genuinely felt I had no choice but to attend since I lived at home and everyone knew I was there.  The only alternative my parents begrudgingly gave me (knowing I wouldn't take it) was to cancel the whole gathering which would have meant HUGE drama.  I ended up spending the night hosting and serving that person and it was AWFUL.  Because I sucked it up and endured, however, my parents, rather than being appreciative that I didn't insist on an outcome that would have affected them negatively rather than myself, now play the whole incident down as not being so bad (in some cases pretending that it didn't even happen).

If you have any choice in this matter (in terms of how bad of an effect it will have on your family, obviously they can't force you to do anything), I would strongly suggest asking your mom just who this party is supposed to be for and making it clear that you won't make an appearance if your mom invites this person.  Honestly, if she invites that person after you've explicitly told her that you don't want her there, I don't think the party is even about you anymore, it is about your mom wanting to throw a party - so IMO, you who are no longer the GOH, don't have any obligation to show up.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on June 29, 2013, 11:17:51 AM
OP,

...   I ended up spending the night hosting and serving that person and it was AWFUL.  ...


You are a much better person than I am, NyaChan!  There is no doubt in my mind that if my mother had pulled a stunt like that it would definitely have affected our relationship for years to come.  I might have more or less "attended" her party, but to host and serve that person?  No way in ehell would that have happened!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: JenJay on June 29, 2013, 11:30:29 AM
And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.

Well put! I'd tell my mom "You can throw a BBQ without Person or you can scrap it and we'll go out for dinner. Spending my birthday with her isn't an option I'm willing to consider."

There's a third option: If the OP's mother insists on inviting this person to the BBQ, the OP can decide not to attend.

Well yes, but I would hope that OP's mom wouldn't decide to force a BBQ with NastyPerson on her birthday :-\. I'd personally start out by giving my mom the option to either not invite Nasty or scrap the BBQ and go out to dinner. No need to escalate to ultimatums before you have to.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: *inviteseller on June 29, 2013, 12:36:54 PM
So many people (women) feel they have to be peace keepers.  Your mom is thinking only that she has to live there and how would it look if she snubbed this woman.  I think as long as you don't tell the person to their face they aren't invited, it is what it is, they don't receive an invitation so they don't know.  If nasty woman finds out and calls, your mom can just say that your sorry but because it is YOUR party, you had final say on the guest list.  Kinda wishy washy, but it saves your mom somewhat and it also lets Nasty know how you feel without a direct confrontation.  The question though is, even if she is not invited, will she still show up?  Doesn't sound like she has manners.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: NyaChan on June 29, 2013, 12:41:10 PM
So many people (women) feel they have to be peace keepers.  Your mom is thinking only that she has to live there and how would it look if she snubbed this woman.  I think as long as you don't tell the person to their face they aren't invited, it is what it is, they don't receive an invitation so they don't know.  If nasty woman finds out and calls, your mom can just say that your sorry but because it is YOUR party, you had final say on the guest list.  Kinda wishy washy, but it saves your mom somewhat and it also lets Nasty know how you feel without a direct confrontation.  The question though is, even if she is not invited, will she still show up?  Doesn't sound like she has manners.

I always wonder, even if the woman does feel snubbed and people know about it, how much of an effect would it really have and how long would it last?  I mean, even if I heard something like this happened, I don't think it would really stick in my mind for long unless there was some huge blowup about it.  Then again, I've read on ehell many situations where such a thing has started some sort of feud, so maybe I just have a worse (or in my opinion, less troublesome) memory than most  ;)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 29, 2013, 12:42:13 PM
I disagree with the majority. Whatever happened was a long time ago. I am sure it was hurtful, and I don't mean to minimize that, but it should be easy to avoid her at the party and have a great time with everyone else. I don't see that your mom is being purposely hurtful, just maybe trying to move on from the past.

It's not up to GSNW's mother to "move on". It's up to GSNW if she wants to do so.

You beat me to it.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Mammavan3 on June 29, 2013, 01:25:35 PM
I'm really having a hard time understanding your mother's attitude here. It does not seem that the two of you have a poor relationship, and if someone had hurt my DD so egregiously, there is no way on God's green earth that I would be friendly toward her, let alone invite her to my home.

Is it possible that your DM (and possibly even the woman herself) have no idea how seriously you viewed her actions?  Or possibly she does not agree that whatever this neighbor did was very wrong and that she feels that one incident, when weighed against thirty years of good relations, should be forgiven and forgotten after so many years have passed?  If the woman has a history of being unkind, and this was not a one-time action on her part, why is your DM continuing the friendship?

Perhaps it would be helpful if you had a discussion with your DM before you refused the offer of a party in your honor. It would give you an opportunity to express to her exactly how this woman's presence upsets you, even after so long, and your DM to explain why she is so reluctant to omit her from the guest list.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: citadelle on June 29, 2013, 01:25:44 PM
I disagree with the majority. Whatever happened was a long time ago. I am sure it was hurtful, and I don't mean to minimize that, but it should be easy to avoid her at the party and have a great time with everyone else. I don't see that your mom is being purposely hurtful, just maybe trying to move on from the past.

It's not up to GSNW's mother to "move on". It's up to GSNW if she wants to do so.
You beat me to it.
OK, I get it. But I still don't think the mom has negative motives. She does have a role, as an acquaintance of the woman and mom of the OP. Perhaps she is simply *hoping* that her daughter will move on.

I accept that it is a minority opinion, and just share it to present another view, not to defend it vigorously.

Edited bc I messed up the quotes.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 29, 2013, 01:37:53 PM
I disagree with the majority. Whatever happened was a long time ago. I am sure it was hurtful, and I don't mean to minimize that, but it should be easy to avoid her at the party and have a great time with everyone else. I don't see that your mom is being purposely hurtful, just maybe trying to move on from the past.

It's not up to GSNW's mother to "move on". It's up to GSNW if she wants to do so.
You beat me to it.
OK, I get it. But I still don't think the mom has negative motives. She does have a role, as an acquaintance of the woman and mom of the OP. Perhaps she is simply *hoping* that her daughter will move on.

I accept that it is a minority opinion, and just share it to present another view, not to defend it vigorously.

Edited bc I messed up the quotes.

No decent hostess or mother will force her guest of honor or daughter to be in the company of this person. If she insists on it, she's making the party about her, about what she wants.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: SPuck on June 29, 2013, 01:49:54 PM
Is your mother the type of woman to agree with you than go along with her original plan anyway?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: doodlemor on June 29, 2013, 01:53:41 PM
No decent hostess or mother will force her guest of honor or daughter to be in the company of this person. If she insists on it, she's making the party about her, about what she wants.

As usual, LeveeWoman is very wise.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: GSNW on June 29, 2013, 01:59:12 PM

Is it possible that your DM (and possibly even the woman herself) have no idea how seriously you viewed her actions?  Or possibly she does not agree that whatever this neighbor did was very wrong and that she feels that one incident, when weighed against thirty years of good relations, should be forgiven and forgotten after so many years have passed?  If the woman has a history of being unkind, and this was not a one-time action on her part, why is your DM continuing the friendship?


I think this is the root of the issue, and Citadelle's response is basically in line with my mom's... it's been a long time and it doesn't hurt you to be friendly/neighborly/etc.  I admit that part of me feels like this is the rational response, which is why I'm grappling with this in the first place.  My mom is much more forgiving and peace-keeping than I am.  I do not think she will invite her after agreeing not to - she wants everyone to be happy (but seems to think she knows how to achieve this instead of just listening to other people when they tell her that this might not be possible).

Here is what happened. 

I grew up in a small town.  One weeknight in the winter, I was home alone at about 8pm (my mom was due home within an hour).  I got in the shower and about two minutes later, the bathroom door closed.  I thought it was weird (if it was my mom, she would have said hello), so I got out of the shower and into a towel.  I heard light switches flicking in the hallway, and I stepped into the hallway and heard noises from my parents' room.  To get to the main part of the house I had to run PAST their room (it was dark) and into the front hall.  The front door was standing wide open and I freaked out, ran across the street to friend's house... in the snow... in my towel and nothing else. 

I rang the bell and I remember being scared out of my mind, my friend said I was a crying and whimpering mess.  She shooed me into the kitchen so we could call the police once I blurted out that someone was in my house.  Friend's mom (Mean Lady) was on the phone with a relative.  She took a good look at me and said, "I'm very busy with this phone call and I don't have time for dramatics.  Go next door."

So out the door we went, me still shoeless and in my towel, to use our other neighbor's phone (911 called, their daughter, also a friend, gave me sweats to change into and I waited there until my mom got home).  Police verified that someone had been in the house - there were large man-sized boot prints all over the tile floors in the kitchen but nothing was missing, the assumption is that after I left the guy got scared and left, too. 

My parents were very upset at how ML responded to my emergency.  They didn't socialize for a long time - probably not until I was in college.  I stayed friends with the daughter but did not go over to their house for sleepovers, dinners, anything - I flat out did not feel comfortable around the mom.  I have never discussed this with the daughter.

I think I would feel differently had she said to me at any point - "Hey, I screwed up and I'm really sorry.  That reaction was not okay," or some variation of that.  We have all done stuff that we cringed at later and realized was offensive or upsetting.  The fact that she has never taken the time to acknowledge this really gets to me.  I wasn't a dramatic or crazy kid, I had been friends with her daughter for 10 years at that point - she knew me and my family. 

In any case, I do appreciate the point that PPs have made - either my mom wants a BBQ or a birthday party, or this is an excuse for a big to-do on her part, which is fine - it's her house and I don't want to hurt her feelings either by snubbing her offer.  But I think it might be best all around if I just told her I'd rather have a quiet family dinner and she can throw the BBQ of her dreams at another time. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: sparksals on June 29, 2013, 02:02:41 PM
I agree with the PPs' thoughts.

The point of a party is to have fun and enjoy yourself. If you'd be dreading it just because of one guest, then that person should not be on the guest list. And if the one woman's feelings are hurt for not being invited, oh well, it sounds like natural consequences.

She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.

And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.
POD - Tell your Mom I don't want awful woman at my birthday party. If she responds that awful woman's feelings will be hurt - you reply My feelings will be hurt if you invite someone with a history of being cruel to me to my birthday party. Then where you go depends on Mom's response.


Kherbert beat me to it.  Your mom seems  more worried about hurting the woman's feelings than how you were treated all those years ago and doesn't care your feelings are hurt on your birthday.  If she insists on inviting this woman, then I think you should say to cancel the party.  Period.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 29, 2013, 02:05:05 PM
No decent hostess or mother will force her guest of honor or daughter to be in the company of this person. If she insists on it, she's making the party about her, about what she wants.

As usual, LeveeWoman is very wise.

Aw, shucks! Thank you, doodlemor.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: sparksals on June 29, 2013, 02:05:49 PM
No decent hostess or mother will force her guest of honor or daughter to be in the company of this person. If she insists on it, she's making the party about her, about what she wants.

As usual, LeveeWoman is very wise.


I have to agree on all counts!

Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 29, 2013, 02:08:37 PM

Is it possible that your DM (and possibly even the woman herself) have no idea how seriously you viewed her actions?  Or possibly she does not agree that whatever this neighbor did was very wrong and that she feels that one incident, when weighed against thirty years of good relations, should be forgiven and forgotten after so many years have passed?  If the woman has a history of being unkind, and this was not a one-time action on her part, why is your DM continuing the friendship?


I think this is the root of the issue, and Citadelle's response is basically in line with my mom's... it's been a long time and it doesn't hurt you to be friendly/neighborly/etc.  I admit that part of me feels like this is the rational response, which is why I'm grappling with this in the first place.  My mom is much more forgiving and peace-keeping than I am.  I do not think she will invite her after agreeing not to - she wants everyone to be happy (but seems to think she knows how to achieve this instead of just listening to other people when they tell her that this might not be possible).

Here is what happened. 

I grew up in a small town.  One weeknight in the winter, I was home alone at about 8pm (my mom was due home within an hour).  I got in the shower and about two minutes later, the bathroom door closed.  I thought it was weird (if it was my mom, she would have said hello), so I got out of the shower and into a towel.  I heard light switches flicking in the hallway, and I stepped into the hallway and heard noises from my parents' room.  To get to the main part of the house I had to run PAST their room (it was dark) and into the front hall.  The front door was standing wide open and I freaked out, ran across the street to friend's house... in the snow... in my towel and nothing else. 

I rang the bell and I remember being scared out of my mind, my friend said I was a crying and whimpering mess.  She shooed me into the kitchen so we could call the police once I blurted out that someone was in my house.  Friend's mom (Mean Lady) was on the phone with a relative.  She took a good look at me and said, "I'm very busy with this phone call and I don't have time for dramatics.  Go next door."

So out the door we went, me still shoeless and in my towel, to use our other neighbor's phone (911 called, their daughter, also a friend, gave me sweats to change into and I waited there until my mom got home).  Police verified that someone had been in the house - there were large man-sized boot prints all over the tile floors in the kitchen but nothing was missing, the assumption is that after I left the guy got scared and left, too. 

My parents were very upset at how ML responded to my emergency.  They didn't socialize for a long time - probably not until I was in college.  I stayed friends with the daughter but did not go over to their house for sleepovers, dinners, anything - I flat out did not feel comfortable around the mom.  I have never discussed this with the daughter.

I think I would feel differently had she said to me at any point - "Hey, I screwed up and I'm really sorry.  That reaction was not okay," or some variation of that.  We have all done stuff that we cringed at later and realized was offensive or upsetting.  The fact that she has never taken the time to acknowledge this really gets to me.  I wasn't a dramatic or crazy kid, I had been friends with her daughter for 10 years at that point - she knew me and my family. 

In any case, I do appreciate the point that PPs have made - either my mom wants a BBQ or a birthday party, or this is an excuse for a big to-do on her part, which is fine - it's her house and I don't want to hurt her feelings either by snubbing her offer.  But I think it might be best all around if I just told her I'd rather have a quiet family dinner and she can throw the BBQ of her dreams at another time.

I'm gob-smacked that your woman is willing to let this go, even all these years later.

ETA: I'm stepping back for a little while lest I blow my top.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: sparksals on June 29, 2013, 02:09:37 PM
I need a jawdrop icon after reading what happened!  That woman was HORRIBLE to you!  Absolutely HORRIBLE!  I can totally understand why you want nothing to do with her and I would also hold a lifelong forever grudge.  That woman would NEVER NEVER NEVER be in my presence in my home EVER!  I am shocked your mother is trying to get you to move on.  That woman showed her true colours with that incident and the fact she never apologized.  Shame on her!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: KenveeB on June 29, 2013, 02:15:15 PM
I think you need to just outright ask your mom, "Are you throwing a party for my birthday, or do you just want an excuse to throw a party?" If it's your birthday party, then you deserve to have veto rights on the guest list. If it's more important to your mom that she have a BBQ with this woman attending, then make it very clear that it's NOT your birthday party. You can have a birthday dinner instead, and then either decline to attend the BBQ entirely or attend but avoid the woman completely.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on June 29, 2013, 02:24:07 PM
What you describe is so far worse than any situation I could have conjured up in my wildest imagination!

To dismiss your fears as being theatrical in the face of your genuine terror is just ... unbelievable!  I cannot for the life of me comprehend why on earth your Mother would want to have anything whatsoever to do with this woman!  Had anything happened to you (and even her own daughter) as the two of you were on your way to the other neighbor's house it would have been her fault. 

I can't imagine any phone call that would take precedence over a genuine emergency situation and yours certainly was that.
Good grief!   :o
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: delabela on June 29, 2013, 02:43:24 PM
I don't think whether this person did something terrible to you really matters - we could probably argue all day about how terrible or not terrible what she did was, whether she really understood what was going on, etc.  The fundamental issue is whether or not you get to say who's invited to this bbq - since it's in your honor, I would say you do.  If your mom was just throwing a bbq, I would think it's probably best to suck it up, go, and ignore the woman (it's been quite some time and it's not like the situation where she was mean to you could reoccur at the bbq).  But since it's a party for you, your mom should respect your feelings on the situation.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: sparksals on June 29, 2013, 03:00:21 PM
I don't think whether this person did something terrible to you really matters - we could probably argue all day about how terrible or not terrible what she did was, whether she really understood what was going on, etc.  The fundamental issue is whether or not you get to say who's invited to this bbq - since it's in your honor, I would say you do.  If your mom was just throwing a bbq, I would think it's probably best to suck it up, go, and ignore the woman (it's been quite some time and it's not like the situation where she was mean to you could reoccur at the bbq).  But since it's a party for you, your mom should respect your feelings on the situation.


Actually, given how terrible it was, I do think it matters.  It sounds like you think what she did wasn't that bad, unless I am misunderstanding?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: WillyNilly on June 29, 2013, 03:05:39 PM
I think you should look your mom straight in the eye and say in a very even tone "I'm very busy with trying to enjoy my birthday and I don't have time for dramatics. Do not invite her."

Honestly I wondered what the situation was and if maybe after all these years you should let it go and just politely ignore the woman. But no, that was really, really bad. Its ok to hold this grudge.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: delabela on June 29, 2013, 03:16:06 PM
I don't think whether this person did something terrible to you really matters - we could probably argue all day about how terrible or not terrible what she did was, whether she really understood what was going on, etc.  The fundamental issue is whether or not you get to say who's invited to this bbq - since it's in your honor, I would say you do.  If your mom was just throwing a bbq, I would think it's probably best to suck it up, go, and ignore the woman (it's been quite some time and it's not like the situation where she was mean to you could reoccur at the bbq).  But since it's a party for you, your mom should respect your feelings on the situation.


Actually, given how terrible it was, I do think it matters.  It sounds like you think what she did wasn't that bad, unless I am misunderstanding?

I don't necessarily think it wasn't that bad, I don't have all the information - I think the situation is terrible and scary, and I'm glad the OP wasn't injured.  But I don't know if the woman didn't understand the situation, was on the phone trying to get info about a dying relative, etc.  Additionally, this woman can't do something like that to the OP again - OP is an adult now, and in no way has to rely on this woman for any kind of safety.  The woman could very well be an extremely awful person, but she could also be a fallible person who made a terrible decision. 

The OP has every right to feel how she feels, and more power to her for knowing her feelings.  OP's mom should not invite the woman to the birthday bbq. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: kherbert05 on June 29, 2013, 03:19:33 PM
I agree with the others. I can't imagine being civil to someone who did this to a family member especially a young girl who fled her house dressed in a towel. 

I know sis and I went to neighbors a couple of times we were spooked by something while home by ourselves or walking/riding in the neighborhood. We were always told that we did the right thing. We felt scared and went to adults.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: WillyNilly on June 29, 2013, 03:25:24 PM
I don't think whether this person did something terrible to you really matters - we could probably argue all day about how terrible or not terrible what she did was, whether she really understood what was going on, etc.  The fundamental issue is whether or not you get to say who's invited to this bbq - since it's in your honor, I would say you do.  If your mom was just throwing a bbq, I would think it's probably best to suck it up, go, and ignore the woman (it's been quite some time and it's not like the situation where she was mean to you could reoccur at the bbq).  But since it's a party for you, your mom should respect your feelings on the situation.


Actually, given how terrible it was, I do think it matters.  It sounds like you think what she did wasn't that bad, unless I am misunderstanding?

I don't necessarily think it wasn't that bad, I don't have all the information - I think the situation is terrible and scary, and I'm glad the OP wasn't injured.  But I don't know if the woman didn't understand the situation, was on the phone trying to get info about a dying relative, etc.  Additionally, this woman can't do something like that to the OP again - OP is an adult now, and in no way has to rely on this woman for any kind of safety.  The woman could very well be an extremely awful person, but she could also be a fallible person who made a terrible decision. 

The OP has every right to feel how she feels, and more power to her for knowing her feelings.  OP's mom should not invite the woman to the birthday bbq.

^ If the woman had apologized, I would totally agree. Sometimes everyone is under stress and fails to realize whats going on outside their world for a moment. If she had later said "oh my gosh I am so sorry! I was on an important call and just totally didn't register the importance of what was going on, are you ok now?" hey it happens. but to go years - years where even the OP's parents were holding a grudge, without ever even acknowledging her behavior?  Nope, not ok in my book.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 29, 2013, 03:43:54 PM
Have you and your mother had this conversation before? Or is this the first time?  If you have been in this woman's presence before, your mother may think that you can deal with her in small doses and with lots of people around.  It may not have occurred to your mother that you were putting up with ML for your her sake or for the sake of not making a scene.

I'm not saying that this woman should be invited to your birthday party, I happen to think there is a special place in hell for people like her.  However, it may not have occurred to your mother that if you had your way, you'd never see her again.  I would level with your mom.  This is your boundary, if she invites this woman to the BBQ, you won't be there. Whether you do something else for your birthday or not, If this woman is present you won't be there. Don't JADE, speak it, put it out there and then follow through.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on June 29, 2013, 04:06:50 PM
...   Additionally, this woman can't do something like that to the OP again - OP is an adult now, and in no way has to rely on this woman for any kind of safety.  ...

Actually, none of us ever really knows when we might have to rely on a neighbor in an emergency.  Emergencies happen to full grown adults too!

But I think any woman, no matter what the conversation on the phone was about, could have delayed her conversation ten minutes ("Uh... there's an emergency here.  I'll call you back in ten minutes." *click*) so that she could to the needs of a wet, towel covered but otherwise naked - in the middle of the winter - teenage girl who was clearly terrified instead of sending her outdoors yet again, delaying notification to the police and basically insulting the OP's integrity by implying that this was all some kind of freakishly dramatic act on the part of the OP.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: delabela on June 29, 2013, 04:22:44 PM
...   Additionally, this woman can't do something like that to the OP again - OP is an adult now, and in no way has to rely on this woman for any kind of safety.  ...

Actually, none of us ever really knows when we might have to rely on a neighbor in an emergency.  Emergencies happen to full grown adults too!

But I think any woman, no matter what the conversation on the phone was about, could have delayed her conversation ten minutes ("Uh... there's an emergency here.  I'll call you back in ten minutes." *click*) so that she could to the needs of a wet, towel covered but otherwise naked - in the middle of the winter - teenage girl who was clearly terrified instead of sending her outdoors yet again, delaying notification to the police and basically insulting the OP's integrity by implying that this was all some kind of freakishly dramatic act on the part of the OP.

OK, sure, there could be a zombie apocalypse at the time of the bbq and the OP along with the other guests (including this woman) will have to form a ragtag band to save the earth from certain doom, but can we agree that it's unlikely that the OP will ever again be in a situation where she has to rely on a specific neighbor of her parents?  All I'm saying is that this woman is not really in a position to cause harm to her again, and that's a good thing.

I feel like people are spending time trying to convince me of how terrible this woman is - I have already said that I think what the OP went through was awful and terrible, and, at best, the woman made a freakishly bad decision.  Let's focus on the issue - whether or not the OP has a right to ask her mother not invite someone she is uncomfortable with for whatever reason to the OP's birthday bbq - and I agree she is absolutely within her rights to do that (and I hope whatever happens, OP has a wonderful and fun birthday). 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: lilihob on June 29, 2013, 05:07:50 PM
Tell your mum she is quite free to forgive and forget(incidentally, I am a mum,I have a mum, and we would forgive her on the 12th of never), but it is your birthday, and every time you see this person, you remember what she did. That is not how anyone should spend their birthday.
She can have barbeques with anybody at any time, but not that day. Either she spends that day with you or with her. There is no middle option. You are not being unreasonable, I am fairly confident that my family is not the only family on this board who would never forgive that woman.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Bethalize on June 29, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
Woah! Okay, I was in the "Time to get over it" camp. I thought that perhaps something had happened which had genuinely traumatised the OP but that itself wasn't egregious. Now I hear the real story I say that if that happened to me as an adult I would never, ever again speak to the person who turned their back on me in my time of need. Cut direct because that person is not someone I want to associate with. I don't see that changing anything because the OP happened to be 13 at the time.

Op, I say make your stand with your mum. Point out that this woman proved then she is not the kind of person you want to associate with and proved it further by never making an effort to make the situation right, and that your mother can be friends with who you like but it is disingenuous of her to act as though you should forget this ever happened. You are not going to be around this woman.

The birthday issue is a red herring.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Hmmmmm on June 29, 2013, 05:46:44 PM
I can't imagine having a hysterical teen arrive at my door in a towel stating someone had broken into her home and then continued with a phone call. But it sounds like the worse that happened is the teen had to go next door to call the police. She was no longer in danger. The woman showed really really bad judgement. And she doesn't sound like a nurturing person or a person who,reacts well in crisis.

Honestly, I'd invite the husband that you like knowing idiot neighbor has to come too. No reason to punish him for marrying his crazy wife.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Bethalize on June 29, 2013, 05:49:11 PM
I can't imagine having a hysterical teen arrive at my door in a towel stating someone had broken into her home and then continued with a phone call. But it sounds like the worse that happened is the teen had to go next door to call the police. She was no longer in danger.

I don't agree with your statement I'm afraid. A teenage girl in a towel is not the safest person in any environment. If the intruder had been after her specifically she would have been vulnerable and alone and easily accessible again.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Violet Devine on June 29, 2013, 05:57:32 PM
Adding my voice to the chorus- stand your ground. I think it is very reasonable for you to insist your mum doesn't invite this lady.

I hope you have a lovely birthday during your visit  :)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Hmmmmm on June 29, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
I can't imagine having a hysterical teen arrive at my door in a towel stating someone had broken into her home and then continued with a phone call. But it sounds like the worse that happened is the teen had to go next door to call the police. She was no longer in danger.

I don't agree with your statement I'm afraid. A teenage girl in a towel is not the safest person in any environment. If the intruder had been after her specifically she would have been vulnerable and alone and easily accessible again.

I guess I assumed that once she had entered her friends home without being accosted, she was in a safe environment. She may not have felt comfortable in public in a towel, nor, would I. But I wouldn't feel endangered anymore.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: kckgirl on June 29, 2013, 06:03:34 PM
Nobody would go running to their neighbor's door in nothing but a towel (especially with snow on the ground) if something wasn't seriously wrong. Mean Lady treated you badly, and I too wouldn't have anything to do with her, regardless of how long it had been. I would make my mother choose between her or me for the barbecue party, and act accordingly.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Pen^2 on June 29, 2013, 06:12:55 PM
What an awful thing to have done. That really is unforgivable.

Sending a teenage girl outside in the dark, wearing only a towel and with an unknown, ill-intentioned man lurking about is incredibly cruel. I can't believe the mother in this story is so willing to forgive someone who so easily put her daughter's safety at risk.

It's not an issue of the OP feeling unsafe around this terrible woman, it's more that the OP won't be able to enjoy herself around someone who did this to her. Very, very understandably. The OP's mother is aware of this.

If the mother is having an event in the OP's honour but still invites the awful woman, then the event isn't for the OP, is it? The mother is doing something she knows will be emotionally upsetting for the OP and will mean that the OP has to spend her time either avoiding the areas where the awful woman is, or biting her lip and being miserable.

You can't force someone to move on from things. "You're old enough now, get over it." Sorry, it doesn't work like that. People have to take their own time to move on, and sometimes it just isn't possible. So although I am sure the OP could attend an event with the awful woman there and just grin and bear it, the OP is not going to enjoy herself at such an event.

It wouldn't be an event in the OP's honour, then. And if the mother doesn't want to hurt feelings, then she's forgetting the feelings of her own daughter. I would be frank with the mother: she is not planning this event for the OP, which is fine, she just needs to be honest about it. And if it isn't in the OP's honour, then the OP has no obligation to attend. I would make this very clear to the mother. Throwing an event for someone that you know they will hate isn't really in their honour, is it?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: kherbert05 on June 29, 2013, 06:17:42 PM
I can't imagine having a hysterical teen arrive at my door in a towel stating someone had broken into her home and then continued with a phone call. But it sounds like the worse that happened is the teen had to go next door to call the police. She was no longer in danger.

I don't agree with your statement I'm afraid. A teenage girl in a towel is not the safest person in any environment. If the intruder had been after her specifically she would have been vulnerable and alone and easily accessible again.
But they had to exit that home - with the teen still barefoot and in a towel and go to another house to call the cops. THere was an intruder and it is possible that while they were going to the next house to call the cops he was out there.  But the biggest point is the woman never acknowledged she did something that hurt the OP. The Op's family should be shunning her, not inviting her over. When someone asks why the Op's family should say ML refused to help OP when our house was broken into while OP was alone.

I guess I assumed that once she had entered her friends home without being accosted, she was in a safe environment. She may not have felt comfortable in public in a towel, nor, would I. But I wouldn't feel endangered anymore.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: RegionMom on June 29, 2013, 09:31:08 PM
The mom sent the teen back out the door in only a towel still.  Even if it were a prank of some sort, who tells a towel clad teen to go back out to another neighbor?
If my DD were in the same situation, I would expect a coat offered or shoes, if not a, "oh, bye phone person, gotta go, seems an emergency!  Call back in 10 cuz I may need to call 911."

But it is still the after effects of NO apology that is the problem.  We had our house broken into a few years ago and we warned the neighbors to be careful.  We look out for each other.  Not all of us are buddies, but when the power went out, we helped.  This situation was supposed to be not just a neighbor, but a friend. 

So, the trauma of a proven break-in while alone in a very vulnerable position , delayed police, toweled teen pushed out, I am surprised of the non-reaction from the adults involved. 

Some things may not be forgivable. 
 

Friend's mom (Mean Lady) was on the phone with a relative.  She took a good look at me and said, "I'm very busy with this phone call and I don't have time for dramatics.  Go next door."

So out the door we went, me still shoeless and in my towel, to use our other neighbor's phone (911 called, their daughter, also a friend, gave me sweats to change into and I waited there until my mom got home).  Police verified that someone had been in the house
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Harriet Jones on June 29, 2013, 09:44:54 PM
While I think what this woman did was pretty horrible and she doesn't need to be invited to the party, I also think that if you're still stewing over this, you should try to let it go.  Don't let this woman take up any of the real estate in your head.  She's not worth it.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 29, 2013, 10:15:17 PM
While I think what this woman did was pretty horrible and she doesn't need to be invited to the party, I also think that if you're still stewing over this, you should try to let it go.  Don't let this woman take up any of the real estate in your head.  She's not worth it.

Perhaps the only claim in GSNW's mind is affected when her mother tries to force her to be near this utterly nasty person.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 29, 2013, 10:21:24 PM
While I think what this woman did was pretty horrible and she doesn't need to be invited to the party, I also think that if you're still stewing over this, you should try to let it go.  Don't let this woman take up any of the real estate in your head.  She's not worth it.

I don't think the OP is stewing at all.  I also think it's really easy to say let go, without understanding how every time she sees that woman she's taken back to a very vulnerable place in her life.  It's one thing if the OP runs into her in public.  But a BBQ is a private event and the OP should have some say in who is invited

I have someone like that in my life.  Nothing as traumatic, but it's a former teacher of mine.  Here in MD for high school you can apply to various magnet/technical  schools.  This teacher knew how badly I wanted to get into my number one choice because she was my mentor and I had talked about it with her.  We had to get recommendations from at least 2 of our current teachers.  Teachers usually handed out recommendations at the end of class.  I watched her give recommendations to several other students.  When I went to herasked when would mine be ready, she stated that she didn't think I was smart enough to attend that school and didn't feel like it was a good fit for me.  Very loudly and in front of several of my classmates.  I'm pretty sure I didn't cry, but I know I was very very upset.

It's been about 15 years since that incident and every time I see her, I'm taken back to that feeling of humiliation and betrayal.  I acknowledge her, and she is acquaintances with my aunt who is also a teacher so I see her every now and then.  If I had my choice, I'd never see her again.  I'm not stewing about it, but I don't want to be in her presence if I don't have to.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: ladyknight1 on June 29, 2013, 10:33:10 PM
ML's actions are of the unforgivable kind. I would never allow myself to be near her again, had this happened to me. OP, I would ask for a quiet birthday dinner to avoid seeing ML again.

I think some posters are being less than charitable to the OP.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Harriet Jones on June 29, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
While I think what this woman did was pretty horrible and she doesn't need to be invited to the party, I also think that if you're still stewing over this, you should try to let it go.  Don't let this woman take up any of the real estate in your head.  She's not worth it.

I don't think the OP is stewing at all.  I also think it's really easy to say let go, without understanding how every time she sees that woman she's taken back to a very vulnerable place in her life.  It's one thing if the OP runs into her in public.  But a BBQ is a private event and the OP should have some say in who is invited
  I'd never see her again.  I'm not stewing about it, but I don't want to be in her presence if I don't have to.

I said "if she is stewing".  I don't know that she is.  It's got to be pretty stressful for her, though, if this comes up a lot.

Edited to add- I also said there's no need to invite this woman.  And the OP doesn't have to *forget* what this woman did.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Darcy on June 29, 2013, 10:42:16 PM
There are (sadly) quite a few people who wounded me deeply at 13, and I would not take very kindly to them being invited to my own birthday party. What the OP's friends mom did would certainly get the cut direct from me forever. The OP is being generous enough with the friend's mom, and I think it perfectly acceptable to stand your ground over this.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: delabela on June 29, 2013, 11:11:44 PM
ML's actions are of the unforgivable kind. I would never allow myself to be near her again, had this happened to me. OP, I would ask for a quiet birthday dinner to avoid seeing ML again.

I think some posters are being less than charitable to the OP.

I don't see any one being anything other than understanding - OP has (rightly) gotten a lot of support in her desire to not have to interact with this woman on her birthday.  A couple people have suggested this person isn't worth any mental energy on the OP's part - that's likely true, and it doesn't seem that OP is really giving much energy to the situation.  Having one's own opinion of the situation is not "uncharitable". 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: NyaChan on June 30, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
OP,

...   I ended up spending the night hosting and serving that person and it was AWFUL.  ...


You are a much better person than I am, NyaChan!  There is no doubt in my mind that if my mother had pulled a stunt like that it would definitely have affected our relationship for years to come.  I might have more or less "attended" her party, but to host and serve that person?  No way in ehell would that have happened!


It did and still does affect my relationship with my parents, believe me.  They don't quite get why it would, because in their mind, they apologized for it, but the apology was too little too late, as it came only after my sister and even my toxic grandmother (I was touched that she did this) got really angry at them.  It wasn't the first or last time they did something similar either, so I when I sensed trouble in the following years, I threatened them that if they didn't stand up for me, I would stand up for myself in a manner of my own choosing, and made it clear that they weren't going to like what I chose.  TBH I wouldn't have had the guts to do anything, but as they didn't know that and were so scared that I might actually do it, they tried a little bit more on my behalf.     
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Cami on June 30, 2013, 01:12:01 PM
I agree with the PPs' thoughts.

The point of a party is to have fun and enjoy yourself. If you'd be dreading it just because of one guest, then that person should not be on the guest list. And if the one woman's feelings are hurt for not being invited, oh well, it sounds like natural consequences.

She wants to invite them and feels there will be hurt feelings if she doesn't.

And there will be hurt feelings if she does invite the woman - yours. Your feelings are more important than anyone else's at an event that is in your honor.
  POD. I'd say to my mother, "Why are my feelings -- on my birthday -- less important than the feelings of a neighbor who did me wrong?"
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Jones on June 30, 2013, 02:25:53 PM
At first I thought, maybe get over it? But I didn't say anything because there are some situations in which getting over it is, and should be, impossible. I'm glad I held that thought because "sending a naked teenager (I don't count a towel as clothes) into the cold, without shoes, without finding out the situation, and especially when there could be a strange man out there looking for her" is an impossible to get over action, particularly if the person who did the sending has never verbally acknowledged her wrong or apologized for it.

Stand your ground.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Iris on June 30, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
Jones has it. Some things can't be "gotten over". Some things shouldn't be. This is both. I do understand that for your mother it would be easier if she could pretend that everything is happy in her neighborhood, but I say stand your ground.

Normally I'm very much a just-get-along person and have never been known to bear a grudge longer than 5 minutes, but this woman has behaved unfathomably badly. Given that you were 13 at the time I can't conceive that there would be a backstory or a "her side" that would make sending a naked young girl back outside excusable.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: nayberry on June 30, 2013, 05:52:09 PM
this is definitely a stand your ground thing,  i can't believe your mum even socialises with that woman even after several years have passed!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on June 30, 2013, 05:55:50 PM
this is definitely a stand your ground thing,  i can't believe your mum even socialises with that woman even after several years have passed!

That gets to me, too. If someone  had done somthing like that to my child, I might do something that would end with my being handcuffed.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 30, 2013, 10:22:26 PM
At first I thought, maybe get over it? But I didn't say anything because there are some situations in which getting over it is, and should be, impossible. I'm glad I held that thought because "sending a naked teenager (I don't count a towel as clothes) into the cold, without shoes, without finding out the situation, and especially when there could be a strange man out there looking for her" is an impossible to get over action, particularly if the person who did the sending has never verbally acknowledged her wrong or apologized for it.

Stand your ground.

To me, the bolded part is the crux of it.

Ok, so maybe Neighbour Woman made a mistake and thought the OP was pulling a silly prank, or being melodramatic. But once the truth was revealed - that there WAS an intruder inside the house - she never even apologised to the OP for shooing her away! 

The most charitable explanation I can think of, was that perhaps Neighbour Woman was so ashamed and mortified that she couldn't stand to look the OP in the face and apologise? But there's also the possibility that she's simply a jerk, or is one of those people who think that adults should never have to apologise to children/teenagers?

Snarky!LifeonPluto would invite her to the party, and crack jokes in front of her about "not having time for melodramatics".
 

Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Danika on June 30, 2013, 10:51:11 PM
At first I thought, maybe get over it? But I didn't say anything because there are some situations in which getting over it is, and should be, impossible. I'm glad I held that thought because "sending a naked teenager (I don't count a towel as clothes) into the cold, without shoes, without finding out the situation, and especially when there could be a strange man out there looking for her" is an impossible to get over action, particularly if the person who did the sending has never verbally acknowledged her wrong or apologized for it.

Stand your ground.

To me, the bolded part is the crux of it.

Ok, so maybe Neighbour Woman made a mistake and thought the OP was pulling a silly prank, or being melodramatic. But once the truth was revealed - that there WAS an intruder inside the house - she never even apologised to the OP for shooing her away! 

The most charitable explanation I can think of, was that perhaps Neighbour Woman was so ashamed and mortified that she couldn't stand to look the OP in the face and apologise? But there's also the possibility that she's simply a jerk, or is one of those people who think that adults should never have to apologise to children/teenagers?

Snarky!LifeonPluto would invite her to the party, and crack jokes in front of her about "not having time for melodramatics".

POD

I think the lack of apology indicates to me that the woman hasn't changed. If she used to be an insensitive jerk and you had a lot of evidence that now, she is currently a nice person, then you might want her at your party, you might not. But when all the evidence has shown that she's a mean, selfish person who doesn't apologize for wrongdoing, why would you want to invite someone like that to celebrate an event with you? Why would you seek out the company of someone like that? Stand your ground.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Yvaine on June 30, 2013, 11:30:59 PM
But I don't know if the woman didn't understand the situation, was on the phone trying to get info about a dying relative, etc. 

Wait, when did dying get into this? Did I misread a post?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: PastryGoddess on July 01, 2013, 12:31:25 AM
But I don't know if the woman didn't understand the situation, was on the phone trying to get info about a dying relative, etc. 

Wait, when did dying get into this? Did I misread a post?

No you didn't misread anything.  the poster was simply thinking of reasons why this woman refused to get off the phone.  OP never said anything like this
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: MariaE on July 01, 2013, 01:13:53 AM
But I don't know if the woman didn't understand the situation, was on the phone trying to get info about a dying relative, etc. 

Wait, when did dying get into this? Did I misread a post?

No you didn't misread anything.  the poster was simply thinking of reasons why this woman refused to get off the phone.  OP never said anything like this

And even if she had the best reason in the world, that only excuses her in the moment. It doesn't excuse her not falling all over herself to apologize afterwards. Had she done that, I'd bet we wouldn't have this thread in the first place!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: zyrs on July 01, 2013, 03:57:46 AM
OP, Happy Birthday and I am sorry something so scary happened to you.

You mother is wrong to try to invite this woman to your birthday party.  I agree with other posters that you should give mom the choice to either have you or the ML there.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: YummyMummy66 on July 01, 2013, 06:46:10 AM
Wow.  I simply cannot imagine what your teen self felt at that time.  Hugs.

No, I would not get over this and I would stand my ground.  This woman would not be invited to my birthday party and quite frankly, I would not care who knew why or not.  I would not go out of my way to tell anyone, but if it came up, I would not just sit back and say nothing either.

Not only did she react badly to the situation, but she never apologized for her reaction either. She clearly feels she did nothing wrong.

Stamd your ground.  Woman is not invited, period.  If she is there, I don't know that I would leave right away, (because clearly everyone else invited seems to be people you do care about and might not know the situation), but I would not be there long, and suddenly, I would feel sick.  And mom would be told in no un-cerain terms that I hope she thinks it was worth it inviting this person.  Because she just destroyed the relationship that you and she have.  I would not be talking to my mother for a long, long time.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 01, 2013, 08:40:19 AM
It wasn't clear to me whether the neighbor lady knew what actually happened and her role in it.  If she did, then I agree stand your ground, but I also think there is something very strange that the OP's mom would continue to socialize with this woman and not say something to her at some point over the years so that this could be addressed.  I am guessing the neighbor lady, at the time, believed the OP to be melodramatic and attention seeking, and if she never heard the truth of what happened she might still think that, hence not have any idea she hurt the OP or that her actions were so egregious.  I am actually a little more appalled at the OP's mother's decision to remain friends with this lady than I am at the lady, assuming the lady actually knows what really happened and refused to apologize when asked.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Mental Magpie on July 01, 2013, 08:50:54 AM
It wasn't clear to me whether the neighbor lady knew what actually happened and her role in it.  If she did, then I agree stand your ground, but I also think there is something very strange that the OP's mom would continue to socialize with this woman and not say something to her at some point over the years so that this could be addressed.  I am guessing the neighbor lady, at the time, believed the OP to be melodramatic and attention seeking, and if she never heard the truth of what happened she might still think that, hence not have any idea she hurt the OP or that her actions were so egregious.  I am actually a little more appalled at the OP's mother's decision to remain friends with this lady than I am at the lady, assuming the lady actually knows what really happened and refused to apologize when asked.

I was trying to find a way to vocalize my thoughts and you've just about done it.  I also wonder, though, if the other lady maybe actually did apologize to the OPs parents and it never got passed along to the OP like it was supposed to, meanwhile the other lady thinks she apologized so she thinks everything is OK.  Maybe that's why the OP's mom now socializes with the woman.  I can see it going something like this (shortened and direct):

(Years after the fact)
Lady: You know, I was just thinking about when your house got broken into.  I was really dismissive of OP and I'm really sorry.  I don't know why I didn't apologize before now but I want to set things right.
OP's Mom: Thank you, it really was a difficult time for OP.  I'll be sure to let her know you apologized.  Now, what about dinner next week?

Maybe OP's mom wants this to be a chance for the woman to apologize and thinks it could be a good gift.  Regardless, this is the OP's birthday and she gets to decide.  I think, OP, that you need to be direct with your mother.  "Mom, I'm still upset about how she treated me.  She never apologized and frankly I don't want anything to do with her, especially on my birthday.  Please do not invite her.  If you still want to and want to have a BBQ, don't make it about my birthday.  We'll have dinner for that instead somewhere else.  Thank you for respecting my wishes."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 01, 2013, 08:58:02 AM
To add to my earlier post, given what I've read here I seems like the neighbor lady truly does not grasp that she hurt the OP, and apparently the OP is the only person who is so offended by what the neighbor lady did.  I think this because several people who are close the the OP, including the OP's mom and the neighbor lady's daughter, remain close to the neighbor lady and no one seems to think it is a big deal except for the OP.  Apparently no one called out the neighbor lady at the time or since?  This doesn't make any sense to me unless there is massive miscommunication.  I think the OP can certainly stand her ground, but I also think the issue can and should be addressed since apparently no one is on the OP's side, which makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: rose red on July 01, 2013, 09:00:45 AM
The OP is still friends with the daughter and husband of that house.  I assume if the woman was talking to a dying relative, her friend would have told her why her mother acted like that after it was all over.  Also, I bet the woman know the truth since her daughter would have also told her afterwards (a break in would be something I freak out to my parents about for days).  She also had years to apologize.  So I'm not even going to try to come up with scenarios of maybes and what-ifs to excuse her.  There are none. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 01, 2013, 09:02:51 AM
The OP is still friends with the daughter and husband of that house.  I assume if the woman was talking to a dying relative, her friend would have told her why her mother acted like that after it was all over.  Also, I bet the woman know the truth since her daughter would have also told her afterwards (a break in would be something I freak out to my parents about for days).  She also had years to apologize.  So I'm not even going to try to come up with scenarios of maybes and what-ifs to excuse her.  There are none.

Honestly, I am trying to excuse the behavior of OP's mom.  The only way this makes any sense to me is if no one thought the OP was truly in any danger and no one knows the OP has been upset about this for years and years.  Otherwise, I really don't understand why this wasn't addressed at the time.  And I don't understand why it isn't being addressed now.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: MommyPenguin on July 01, 2013, 09:03:37 AM
I'm not sure where other people are getting that the OP's parents weren't bothered by this at all?  The OP says this:

Quote
My parents were very upset at how ML responded to my emergency.  They didn't socialize for a long time - probably not until I was in college.  I stayed friends with the daughter but did not go over to their house for sleepovers, dinners, anything - I flat out did not feel comfortable around the mom.  I have never discussed this with the daughter.

So it sounds like, after the incident, they went maybe 5-7 *years* without socializing with her.  It just sounds like eventually they started socializing again, and it could have been a scenario where they just stopped avoiding talking to her at neighborhood events, not that they necessarily sought her out for a friendship again.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: rose red on July 01, 2013, 09:09:15 AM
Actually, I don't think it matters what happened.  The OP could be mad because the woman took the last cookie.  The fact is she doesn't want anything to do with the woman, especially at her birthday party and her mother should respect that.  She is not stopping her mother from being friends or inviting her to any other event.  But this is her birthday party.  I can't imagine inviting someone the guest of honor feels that strongly about.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 01, 2013, 09:09:24 AM
So it sounds like, after the incident, they went maybe 5-7 *years* without socializing with her. 

Thanks for the quote - I had forgotten the lapse in friendship for a while.  But I still don't see that the situation was every directly addressed.  I think it should be.  I am guessing the neighbor lady has no idea that incident has affected the OP how it has, especially because it seems the neighbor lady's daughter never discussed it with the OP (and therefore probably did not discuss the OP's feelings she didn't know about with her mom) and it seems neither the OP nor her parents directly addressed this either. Since the neighbor lady was never called our and "everyone" seems to be fine with her, she probably has no idea this is an issue.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Mental Magpie on July 01, 2013, 09:26:12 AM
So it sounds like, after the incident, they went maybe 5-7 *years* without socializing with her. 

Thanks for the quote - I had forgotten the lapse in friendship for a while.  But I still don't see that the situation was every directly addressed.  I think it should be.  I am guessing the neighbor lady has no idea that incident has affected the OP how it has, especially because it seems the neighbor lady's daughter never discussed it with the OP (and therefore probably did not discuss the OP's feelings she didn't know about with her mom) and it seems neither the OP nor her parents directly addressed this either. Since the neighbor lady was never called our and "everyone" seems to be fine with her, she probably has no idea this is an issue.

I agree with TurtleDove.  My "what-if" scenarios were just me trying to come up with a reason why this has never been addressed directly.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: lowspark on July 01, 2013, 09:27:53 AM
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."

I wouldn't want to associate with this woman at all, much less socialize with her, and even less have her as a guest at a party where I was the guest of honor.

Your mother has possibly felt pressure to just move on because the woman is part of the neighborhood social group and maybe they just run into each other too often for your mother to feel comfortable continuing to snub her after years. And that is somewhat understandable if that is the case. However, that doesn't mean you have to move on.

I think you are perfectly right to just state point blank that this woman is not welcome at any party thrown on your behalf and that while your mother can make her own decisions on whom she wishes to socialize with, she cannot make that decision for you.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: NyaChan on July 01, 2013, 09:30:02 AM
So it sounds like, after the incident, they went maybe 5-7 *years* without socializing with her. 

Thanks for the quote - I had forgotten the lapse in friendship for a while.  But I still don't see that the situation was every directly addressed.  I think it should be.  I am guessing the neighbor lady has no idea that incident has affected the OP how it has, especially because it seems the neighbor lady's daughter never discussed it with the OP (and therefore probably did not discuss the OP's feelings she didn't know about with her mom) and it seems neither the OP nor her parents directly addressed this either. Since the neighbor lady was never called our and "everyone" seems to be fine with her, she probably has no idea this is an issue.

Ah a break in socializing puts this into more perspective for me as far as the parents go.  I actually think she probably does know that it was a problem, but I doubt the parents were giving her the cut direct for that time if they were able to reestablish relations now, so much as they distanced themselves.  I think that after 5-7 years of civil but not close interaction, she probably figures it is all done with now and that she has been forgiven.  I would not expect a conversation on that topic to happen at this point and wouldn't recommend trying to force it either - too much time has passed to make it a productive conversation. 

The thing that really sticks for me though is that regardless of why or when this rift occurred, getting over it doesn't mean that we have to socialize with the person who has hurt us.  I can get over something bad that happened to me, but still be perfectly aware that the bad side that I've seen of someone marks them as someone I wouldn't want in my life - or at least not at an occasion that has everything to do with me, and nothing to do with them, like a birthday party. 

I've done a mental "go forth and sin no more" to the people who really messed me up and while they are very sweet when they try to contact me now, and I am sure that they have changed a lot, I will never be more than a polite acquaintance to them, maybe with an added dose of nostalgia because we have known each other for so long.  I don't think that is stewing or failing to move on.  I think OP has no need to socialize with this woman and with so many people who didn't fail her at a key moment in her life around to celebrate with, why does this woman need to be there?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on July 01, 2013, 09:30:11 AM
... your mother can make her own decisions on whom she wishes to socialize with, she cannot make that decision for you.

This.  Precisely.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: VorFemme on July 01, 2013, 02:30:42 PM

I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."


Ding, ding, ding - yes, this!  Exactly the right words.

The woman has shown her "true self" and the OP doesn't have to be around her.

If the OP's mother disagrees - then the mother is trying to insist, to herself, that the woman might have redeeming qualities because she is still a neighbor.  But she's a nayboor - it only sounds the same.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Allyson on July 01, 2013, 03:23:52 PM
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."
.

Oh, I *like* that distinction! To me 'grudge' and 'staying mad' involve some kind of emotion, where the latter can be quite cold. Also, I can be mad at someone without feeling they are actually a horrible person, and realize it's my own emotions clouding the situation. The thing is, in a case like this, I would probably deal with seeing her at most occasions. There are lots of people out there I don't want to deal with because of who they are, and if I gave all of them 'the cut direct', well, it would make things harder for me. But *not* at my birthday, and not at a birthday hosted by a close family member.

Like other posters it kind of baffles me that your family would not socialize with them for years, then start doing so again but *not* bring up the underlying cause? I think sometimes people get mad, and assume that what's a big deal to them is also a big deal to the other person--the whole 'I won't tell you why I'm mad because you should know' thing. But maybe the neighbour lady didn't even think about it again, just figured 'oh, family X drifted away, and now they're back'. I don't know. But I know if something affected me to *that* point it would just about kill me to not address it to them if I decided to see them again! Maybe not if it was a situation like 'well, time has passed so I won't make it awkward if I see them, but won't go out of my way to hang with them either' but your mother wants to invite her to a party! Which is more involvement than just 'polite acquaintances for the sake of civility'.

The thing is, I pretty much would never 'cut direct' someone for something they did *once*, so long as it was acknowledged that said thing was wrong...which has never happened here.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: GSNW on July 01, 2013, 08:57:01 PM
I think the difference between myself and my mom lies in our attitude towards people we don't get along with, or who we feel have wronged us.  My mom is the eternal peacemaker, so the fact that they refused to socialize with the neighbors for a period of about five years says a lot. 

To give an example, my mom has a toxic cousin that I refuse to deal with on a 1:1 basis (I am cooly polite to her at family gatherings, but otherwise it's radio silence).  My mom is constantly trying to "work on" their friendship because "she's faaamily!" which I think is ridiculous and a pointless waste of time.  I am much quicker to wash my hands of people and situations, and she feels like I can be callous in this.

My mom's actions, while coming from a good place, often rub people the wrong way because she tries to please so many people at once.  At the time of the incident I told her I was very angry with the neighbor.  She said something along the lines of, "Being angry with her is very unfair because she didn't know all the details of the situation.  You need to treat her politely."  As I understood it at the time, the subject was closed.  As an adult, I can see that maybe my mom was trying to not stretch out the trauma and ensure that I didn't go over and scream at the lady, or something like that.  I wish she had offered a little more validation of my feelings, but the time for that is long past.

When I told her I didn't want ML at the party, there was a good 15 seconds of silence (via phone) before she said, "Are you still that angry with her?"  I didn't want to get into an argument about whether or not I have the right to be mad/upset/not want to see her (because I know that's where it will go), so I told her I would need to think about it, then posted this thread.

I think my mom's actions regarding the party are unfair and wrong, and many people have posted that very succinctly.  I am going to call her tomorrow afternoon and let her know I'd prefer a quiet dinner with family only, and that if she wants to do the big cookout, I'd prefer it not be billed as a bday party on my behalf.  I think that will make things much easier, and honestly, if there was a big BBQ and everyone except ML were invited, it would be very obvious.  I don't want to *punish* her for what happened, I just don't want to hang out with her.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Jaelle on July 01, 2013, 09:30:01 PM
What's the quote? "When people show you who they are, believe them."

Sending a terrified teen girl back into the snow wearing only a towel, even if you did believe they were prone to hysterics, is simply unbelievable.

lowspark said it well. It would have less to do with still hanging on to things and more to do with "I don't choose to associate with someone like that."

I agree with your decision, OP. Sounds like a quiet dinner might be a better option if this is going to be an issue.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Dr. F. on July 01, 2013, 09:30:16 PM

I think my mom's actions regarding the party are unfair and wrong, and many people have posted that very succinctly.  I am going to call her tomorrow afternoon and let her know I'd prefer a quiet dinner with family only, and that if she wants to do the big cookout, I'd prefer it not be billed as a bday party on my behalf.  I think that will make things much easier, and honestly, if there was a big BBQ and everyone except ML were invited, it would be very obvious. I don't want to *punish* her for what happened, I just don't want to hang out with her.

The bolded is the difference between a grudge and a reasonable reaction. A grudge involves an overly emotional reaction to a previous issue. If you were holding a grudge, you would want her punished. You are "over it," you just don't like this person (for good reason!); there is nothing more to get over.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Minmom3 on July 01, 2013, 09:34:00 PM
Seriously?!  "Ma, she shoved me BACK IN THE SNOW WEARING ONLY A TOWEL!!   And she NEVER apologized!!"   

OP was scared enough to be crying.  She was wearing ONLY a towel. Cops discovered that there WAS a break in.  What part of trauma does the OP's mother NOT understand?  Is what happened to her daughter that trivial?  Even if she'd been fully dressed for the weather, being scared enough to be crying would have ME calling the cops for the kid....  I see no excuse for doing anything else.  Just the fact that OP was crying in fear should have triggered the 'help make it better SOMEHOW' reflex in the woman...  Even if OP was a perfect stranger to the woman, she should have recognized that level of fear when OP was in front of her.  It boggles my mind that OP's mom is surprised and dismayed that OP holds this grudge against ML.  To me, that is horribly passive and spineless on the mother's part.  Horribly so. >:(


OK, so not a grudge.  But absolutely within OP's rights to decline to spend any time in her company.  I'd be having words with Mom about how much more important this woman's feelings appeared to be than mine, if I were OP.  As a mother, I would not have gotten over a neighbor doing that to my 13 yo daughter.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on July 01, 2013, 09:45:23 PM

When I told her I didn't want ML at the party, there was a good 15 seconds of silence (via phone) before she said, "Are you still that angry with her?"  I didn't want to get into an argument about whether or not I have the right to be mad/upset/not want to see her (because I know that's where it will go), so I told her I would need to think about it, then posted this thread.


Your mum is kind of missing the point. It's not about you *still* being angry with Neighbour Woman. It's simply that you don't like her, and don't want her there.

There are people who have "wronged" me in the past (although admittedly not to the same degree). I'm not angry at them. In fact, I wish them well. But I just can't be bothered socialising with them. They're not people I want to spend time with. 

I'd tell your mum that while you're not angry with Neighbour Woman, you don't like her, and have no inclination to spend time with her at your own party.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: artk2002 on July 02, 2013, 12:19:15 AM
The problem that I see with your mother is that she sees only two possibilities. Either your so angry you can't deal with this woman or everything is just hunky-dory. There's no middle ground. I'm sure that's what happened when your parents cut the woman off. They were angry and cut her off and then they got over the angry so everything is fine. You've got a third place: You'd simply rather not deal with this woman. I don't get a feeling of residual anger, but things certainly aren't just ducky fine with her either. Mom has trouble understanding that, hence the "are you still really that angry with her" question.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: VorFemme on July 02, 2013, 10:13:56 AM
It's not that you "don't like her" - it's that you "don't trust her" - she shoved a naked, wet teenaged girl wearing ONLY a towel outside in the SNOW for having hysterics instead of trying to figure out what was going on.

For Pete's Sake - she doesn't need to be given another chance to show that she totally lacks neighborly protective feelings for the kids in her area.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Danika on July 02, 2013, 10:33:21 AM
Exactly. It's like the ML is an alligator. You know what she's capable of. You're not still mad that she tried to bite you and hurt you years ago. It's that you know that she hasn't changde and she still has the same nature to do mean, thoughtless things to others. Why invite that into your life and your circle of friends? Why expose yourself to someone like that or expose your friends/guests to that either?

OP's mom is worried about the fallout within the neighborhood for leaving out one guest. There are other options, but one option that should not be considered is to invite ML.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
OP's mom is worried about the fallout within the neighborhood for leaving out one guest. There are other options, but one option that should not be considered is to invite ML.

Well, honestly, this is what strikes me as really odd.  Apparently, the neighborhood does not agree that ML is an alligator.  The neighborhood does not (apparently) hold ML in low regard at all.  I suspect it will be the OP who will be held in low regard, and I can't figure out why, aside from this incident was never appropriately addressed at the time and so the general view is that OP overreacted.  It just does not make sense to me why this was (not) handled the way it was.  Obviously, the OP can ask that ML not be invited, but it seems there is a whole lot more going on here.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: CakeBeret on July 02, 2013, 12:23:07 PM
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."

I think lowspark said it best, and I think that you should try using this type of wording with your mother. "Mom, I'm not mad at ML, holding a grudge, or anything else. I forgave her a long time ago. But that day she showed us her true character, and I am simply choosing not to socialize with her based on that."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: KenveeB on July 02, 2013, 12:57:03 PM
I don't think this even falls under the category of "holding a grudge" or "staying mad for years". It's more of a case of "now that I know what kind of person you are, I want nothing to do with you."

I think lowspark said it best, and I think that you should try using this type of wording with your mother. "Mom, I'm not mad at ML, holding a grudge, or anything else. I forgave her a long time ago. But that day she showed us her true character, and I am simply choosing not to socialize with her based on that."

I just saw a quote on FB that said, "I don't hold grudges. I hold memories that keep me better prepared for our next encounter."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on July 02, 2013, 01:13:55 PM
... I forgave her a long time ago. ...

You and the other posters who assume the OP can/has forgiven this misadventure are so nice.  Personally, I don't think I'd have ever been able to truly "forgive" that.  I know what they all say about forgiveness being good for the person wronged, but sometimes I think forgiveness is highly overrated!  I think, for me, this would be one of those 'sometimes'.   :D
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:29:58 PM
I think this is not a "universal response" situation. I am not discounting the OP's feelings (or any of the posters who agree with her), but to me, this* simply would not be something that would have been a big deal to me.  Based on the neighborhood's reaction at the time and since, it wasn't to them either.

*The ML's behavior, not the situation the OP went through with the intruder.  I am simply pointing out that while I don't think the ML handled this appropriately, apparently there are factors we don't know about that make it so that the ML is not villified by people who were there and presumably know the situation.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: ladyknight1 on July 02, 2013, 01:35:47 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: rashea on July 02, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
I think this is not a "universal response" situation. I am not discounting the OP's feelings (or any of the posters who agree with her), but to me, this* simply would not be something that would have been a big deal to me.  Based on the neighborhood's reaction at the time and since, it wasn't to them either.

*The ML's behavior, not the situation the OP went through with the intruder.  I am simply pointing out that while I don't think the ML handled this appropriately, apparently there are factors we don't know about that make it so that the ML is not villified by people who were there and presumably know the situation.

Actually, I'm not sure the neighborhood really does know what happened. And many people don't hold things against people if they didn't commit the offence against them. And there are many people who will socialize with someone just to avoid the awkwardness of not inviting one person. So, I do wonder how she's regarded in the area. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on July 02, 2013, 01:38:43 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.

That.  Plus the fact that we don't know how much the neighborhood knew about the situation.  I would presume that the neighbors were told about the break in (since the guy got away and therefore neighbors should be cautious), but they may not have been told about Mean Lady's treatment of the OP.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:39:04 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.

Oh, mine don't either.  The ML's actions wouldn't have been a big deal to me period.  But I am curious why the board seems to be heavily of the opinion that the ML is an awful person with serious character flaws when the people who know her in her neighborhood apparently don't feel that way. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on July 02, 2013, 01:40:30 PM
I think this is not a "universal response" situation. I am not discounting the OP's feelings (or any of the posters who agree with her), but to me, this* simply would not be something that would have been a big deal to me.  Based on the neighborhood's reaction at the time and since, it wasn't to them either.

*The ML's behavior, not the situation the OP went through with the intruder.  I am simply pointing out that while I don't think the ML handled this appropriately, apparently there are factors we don't know about that make it so that the ML is not villified by people who were there and presumably know the situation.


Her mother was there and knew of the situation, and refused to socialize with her for years. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Harriet Jones on July 02, 2013, 01:42:20 PM
Sending an upset teenage girl back outside in the winter dressed only in a towel is a pretty egregious offense to me.   
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:43:53 PM
Her mother was there and knew of the situation, and refused to socialize with her for years.

Yes, which is why I can't understand why the OP's mother is now concerned that the neighborhood would be upset that ML is not invited.  And again, I didn't get the sense that ML was ever directly told that what she did had offended the OP and her family and I get the sense she didn't realize she had anything to apologize for.  The whole situation seems like a giant miscommunication and I wish it had been addressed immediately when it happened so that the OP could have gotten the apology she wanted long ago.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Queen of Clubs on July 02, 2013, 01:44:06 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.

Nor mine.  There's also the factor that lots of people don't like to make a fuss.  They'll be polite to almost anyone to avoid making a scene.  So it may be that the neighbours are polite to her but don't like her, but won't exclude her for fear of making a fuss, or (as Rashea said) they might not even know what she did.

OP, stand your ground.  If your mom wants to socialise with neighbour woman, she can - but you're in no way obliged to, especially at your own party.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: ladyknight1 on July 02, 2013, 01:44:07 PM
Also, the perspective of someone from outside a small community may see things and react much differently than someone inside that community that will feel repercussions of any action taken.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: gramma dishes on July 02, 2013, 01:46:15 PM

Oh, mine don't either.  The ML's actions wouldn't have been a big deal to me period.  But I am curious why the board seems to be heavily of the opinion that the ML is an awful person with serious character flaws when the people who know her in her neighborhood apparently don't feel that way.

Turtle Dove, the neighbors may not actually especially like this woman but in the interest of community harmony (and especially if everyone likes ML's husband and daughter), they may think it is everyone's best interest to remain civil to her.  Also, they may not be aware of her reaction to the OP's situation at the time of the incident.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: VorFemme on July 02, 2013, 01:47:11 PM
... I forgave her a long time ago. ...

You and the other posters who assume the OP can/has forgiven this misadventure are so nice.  Personally, I don't think I'd have ever been able to truly "forgive" that.  I know what they all say about forgiveness being good for the person wronged, but sometimes I think forgiveness is highly overrated!  I think, for me, this would be one of those 'sometimes'.   :D

You can "forgive" a skunk for being a stinker - doesn't mean that you want it in the living room with you....or even at a back yard BBQ!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Yvaine on July 02, 2013, 01:48:48 PM
I think this is not a "universal response" situation. I am not discounting the OP's feelings (or any of the posters who agree with her), but to me, this* simply would not be something that would have been a big deal to me.  Based on the neighborhood's reaction at the time and since, it wasn't to them either.

*The ML's behavior, not the situation the OP went through with the intruder.  I am simply pointing out that while I don't think the ML handled this appropriately, apparently there are factors we don't know about that make it so that the ML is not villified by people who were there and presumably know the situation.

Actually, I'm not sure the neighborhood really does know what happened. And many people don't hold things against people if they didn't commit the offence against them. And there are many people who will socialize with someone just to avoid the awkwardness of not inviting one person. So, I do wonder how she's regarded in the area.

And maybe the OP's mom is even mistaken about the neighbors' opinion. If I read the thread correctly, we only know anything about the neighbors' opinion as filtered through mom.

At any rate, I don't think the neighbors' opinion should be the final arbiter of whether OP decides to socialize with this woman. Plenty of awful people have put on a nice face for "the neighbors" while being a lot less pleasant in private. A lot of people let their social mask slip around people they feel are "below" them, such as a child.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Twik on July 02, 2013, 01:48:56 PM
Look at the typical report in the online newspapers these days about people doing horrible things. There's always people in the comment section going, "Yeah, but, these are good neighbours of mine, and they never hurt ME personally, so I think it's all being overdramatized."

I would be horrified at someone who would not help my child in a situation that could, in different circumstances, have been life-threatening. I certainly would not continue the relationship with someone who treated my child like that.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Yvaine on July 02, 2013, 01:50:49 PM
And I think the real kicker is that she didn't apologize when she found out what actually happened. Whatever excuse she might have had in the moment, she should have at least apologized after the fact.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:52:01 PM
And I think the real kicker is that she didn't apologize when she found out what actually happened. Whatever excuse she might have had in the moment, she should have at least apologized after the fact.

This is where I am confused - we don't know that she ever was told what happened!  The OP said she never even discussed this with the daughter! 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Twik on July 02, 2013, 01:52:16 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.

Oh, mine don't either.  The ML's actions wouldn't have been a big deal to me period.  But I am curious why the board seems to be heavily of the opinion that the ML is an awful person with serious character flaws when the people who know her in her neighborhood apparently don't feel that way.

Maybe, because the actions as described by the OP, are heartless and could, if the intruder were a different type, have led to a tragedy?

Perhaps you really wouldn't have minded being turned away from help by a supposed friend, as you were standing dripping in public wearing nothing but a towel, as a criminal rummaged through your home. Myself, I would have seen this as a case of "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Twik on July 02, 2013, 01:55:34 PM
And I think the real kicker is that she didn't apologize when she found out what actually happened. Whatever excuse she might have had in the moment, she should have at least apologized after the fact.

This is where I am confused - we don't know that she ever was told what happened!  The OP said she never even discussed this with the daughter!

If she was not a good enough friend for the OP's mother to say, "Oh, remember when my daughter came to beg you for help, and you turned her away? There was a criminal intruder in our home!", then I don't see her being a good enough friend to invite to a barbeque despite your daughter's dislike.

OP, simply tell your mother that she cannot have you and this woman at the same event. If her friend's feelings are hurt, tell her that *yours* are much more hurt, and ask her to think seriously about whom she wishes to maintain a relationship with.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: LeveeWoman on July 02, 2013, 01:56:02 PM
Her mother was there and knew of the situation, and refused to socialize with her for years.

Yes, which is why I can't understand why the OP's mother is now concerned that the neighborhood would be upset that ML is not invited.  And again, I didn't get the sense that ML was ever directly told that what she did had offended the OP and her family and I get the sense she didn't realize she had anything to apologize for.  The whole situation seems like a giant miscommunication and I wish it had been addressed immediately when it happened so that the OP could have gotten the apology she wanted long ago.

How could she not know what happened? She lived across the street from, and her daughter was a good friend of, GSNW. Surely she knew what happened. The cops showed up, and I'm sure their lights and sirens were used.

I cannot conceive of a mindset that will allow someone to apologize only if the victim aks for an apology or reproaches the victimizer.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
My feelings would not depend on the reaction of the neighborhood.

Oh, mine don't either.  The ML's actions wouldn't have been a big deal to me period.  But I am curious why the board seems to be heavily of the opinion that the ML is an awful person with serious character flaws when the people who know her in her neighborhood apparently don't feel that way.

Oh, I would have "minded" but it wouldn't have been a big deal because I would have understood that the ML didn't grasp what was happening and it was a really weird situation.  It wouldn't have been a big deal of "ML is such a meanie" but more, "oh, I bet she didn't understand what was happening."  I would also have talked to my friend and ML (friend's mom) about it and I am guessing the years of misunderstanding would not have happened. But that's all neither here nor there.  Simply stated, I would not have taken the ML's actions personally.

Maybe, because the actions as described by the OP, are heartless and could, if the intruder were a different type, have led to a tragedy?

Perhaps you really wouldn't have minded being turned away from help by a supposed friend, as you were standing dripping in public wearing nothing but a towel, as a criminal rummaged through your home. Myself, I would have seen this as a case of "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 01:58:01 PM
And I think the real kicker is that she didn't apologize when she found out what actually happened. Whatever excuse she might have had in the moment, she should have at least apologized after the fact.

This is where I am confused - we don't know that she ever was told what happened!  The OP said she never even discussed this with the daughter!

If she was not a good enough friend for the OP's mother to say, "Oh, remember when my daughter came to beg you for help, and you turned her away? There was a criminal intruder in our home!", then I don't see her being a good enough friend to invite to a barbeque despite your daughter's dislike.

OP, simply tell your mother that she cannot have you and this woman at the same event. If her friend's feelings are hurt, tell her that *yours* are much more hurt, and ask her to think seriously about whom she wishes to maintain a relationship with.

POD to this.  I really do not understand the OP's mom's actions over time.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Twik on July 02, 2013, 02:11:09 PM
TD - it sounds like she's a little like my father. My mother used to get exasperated that my father would be about to completely cut someone out of his life one day, but six months later would have conveniently forgotten what the dispute was about, and buy the person a drink. My mother's approach was to rarely get that angry, but if she was that angry, she did not consider the passage of time enough to make her change her mind about that person. If a person had seriously wronged her (or someone she was close to), she remembered, and it would have taken a lot to make her regain her faith in that person.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Yvaine on July 02, 2013, 02:13:38 PM
And I think the real kicker is that she didn't apologize when she found out what actually happened. Whatever excuse she might have had in the moment, she should have at least apologized after the fact.

This is where I am confused - we don't know that she ever was told what happened!  The OP said she never even discussed this with the daughter!

If she was not a good enough friend for the OP's mother to say, "Oh, remember when my daughter came to beg you for help, and you turned her away? There was a criminal intruder in our home!", then I don't see her being a good enough friend to invite to a barbeque despite your daughter's dislike.

OP, simply tell your mother that she cannot have you and this woman at the same event. If her friend's feelings are hurt, tell her that *yours* are much more hurt, and ask her to think seriously about whom she wishes to maintain a relationship with.

POD to this.  I really do not understand the OP's mom's actions over time.

I'm not sure what you're driving at. It really feels like you're trying to go after the OP's credibility on the grounds that other people in the situation may not have acted logically. People act illogically all the time.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Mental Magpie on July 02, 2013, 02:34:29 PM
I don't think that is at all what TD is doing.  She doesn't understand the OP's mother's actions about being friends with the woman again, so she is questioning how much the ML actually knows about everything.  At least, that's how I read it, and I cannot speak for TurtleDove.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Outdoor Girl on July 02, 2013, 02:50:13 PM
OP, I would stand my ground on this one.

'Mom, I do not want ML at my birthday party.  Full stop.  You can either scale back the event so that her absence is less noticeable, if that bothers you, or we can cancel the whole thing and just go out for dinner.  But I will not socialize with that woman on MY birthday.'

And let your Mom know that she is welcome to invite ML over any time she likes, just not at an event in your honour.  That if the event is to honour your Mom and Dad's anniversary, for example, you would suck it up and deal.  But you are not prepared to do that for your own event.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 02:50:20 PM
I don't think that is at all what TD is doing.  She doesn't understand the OP's mother's actions about being friends with the woman again, so she is questioning how much the ML actually knows about everything.  At least, that's how I read it, and I cannot speak for TurtleDove.

Yes, this exactly.  I am not questioning the OP, I am confused about how this situation was allowed to develop and fester over so many years, apparently without ever actually being addressed (and not by the OP with her friend either). If I were the OP, I would have addressed with certainly with my friend if not ML herself if it upset me.  If I were the OP's mom, I would absolutely have talked to ML and made certain my daughter (the OP) was okay and got an apology. If ML is so awful that after understanding what actually happened (I still don't see that ML really knew what happened), as the OP's mother I would certainly not consider inviting ML to a BBQ at my house ever, let alone to celebrate the OP's birthday years later.  If the ML is awful and clearly knew what happened and refused to apologize, I don't understand why the neighbors would be upset ML is not invited to the BBQ (or why the OP's mom would even consider inviting ML).  I get the sense there is a lot of assumptions that people "know" things that based on the totality of behavior I don't think can be assumed.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Yvaine on July 02, 2013, 02:54:37 PM
I don't think that is at all what TD is doing.  She doesn't understand the OP's mother's actions about being friends with the woman again, so she is questioning how much the ML actually knows about everything.  At least, that's how I read it, and I cannot speak for TurtleDove.

Yes, this exactly.  I am not questioning the OP, I am confused about how this situation was allowed to develop and fester over so many years, apparently without ever actually being addressed (and not by the OP with her friend either). If I were the OP, I would have addressed with certainly with my friend if not ML herself if it upset me.  If I were the OP's mom, I would absolutely have talked to ML and made certain my daughter (the OP) was okay and got an apology. If ML is so awful that after understanding what actually happened (I still don't see that ML really knew what happened), as the OP's mother I would certainly not consider inviting ML to a BBQ at my house ever, let alone to celebrate the OP's birthday years later.  If the ML is awful and clearly knew what happened and refused to apologize, I don't understand why the neighbors would be upset ML is not invited to the BBQ (or why the OP's mom would even consider inviting ML).  I get the sense there is a lot of assumptions that people "know" things that I based on the totality of behavior I don't think can be assumed.

I can totally see a kid not bringing it up with another kid, especially since the issue was never with the other kid, and I'm sure it created awkwardness in their friendship whether it was brought up or not.

You are not the OP's mother. The OP has stated that her mother is someone who likes to make peace with people, and that even the five years of cut direct were an exceptional action on her part. Mom evidently decided the "statute of limitations" was up and decided to make peace.

Nobody knows whether the neighbors will really be upset or not. This is all filtered through the OP's mom, who may be mistaken, letting her own dislike of conflict sway her.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 03:03:24 PM
My point is, I don't see anything that indicates to me that ML has any idea why or that her actions on that night so long ago were egregious or that the OP or her mom now or at any point were upset by them. I am not saying ML's acitons were not egregious.  I am saying I don't see any indication that ML knew what truly happened, knew the OP was (and is) upset, and refused to apologize.

Back to the initial question, my response to that remains the same: of course the OP does not have to attend a party where ML is and should stand her ground.  I suspect, based on what we learned (and what we didn't) in this thread, quite a few people will be puzzled.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Twik on July 02, 2013, 03:12:58 PM
There are people who, no matter how much damage they do, never really understand that they have done anything wrong. That's not the OP's problem.

If people are "puzzled" about why someone isn't invited to a birthday party for someone who is not their particular friend, and not even their generation, they need to start minding their own business a little bit more. (And I'm puzzled myself at how the word of who is invited to a party could spread through a neighbourhood so easily, but not that there was a break-in in an occupied house in the neighborhood. That sort of thing should be much more important to know.)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: CakeBeret on July 02, 2013, 03:48:38 PM
My point is, I don't see anything that indicates to me that ML has any idea why or that her actions on that night so long ago were egregious or that the OP or her mom now or at any point were upset by them. I am not saying ML's acitons were not egregious.  I am saying I don't see any indication that ML knew what truly happened, knew the OP was (and is) upset, and refused to apologize.

I would contend that throwing a towel-clad teenage girl out of her house, into the snow, without giving her a chance to speak is automatically egregious. Full stop. Even if she knows nothing more of what happened, she should be ashamed. Even if the OP had been, say, trying to execute a poor prank, the woman's behavior would have been (imo) inexcusable.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Virg on July 02, 2013, 04:10:41 PM
TurtleDove wrote:

"My point is, I don't see anything that indicates to me that ML has any idea why or that her actions on that night so long ago were egregious or that the OP or her mom now or at any point were upset by them. I am not saying ML's acitons were not egregious.  I am saying I don't see any indication that ML knew what truly happened, knew the OP was (and is) upset, and refused to apologize."

It doesn't matter whether she knows any of this, to be honest.  If she was unobservant enough not to notice that GSNW's mother cut her off for half a decade and made no effort to figure out why that might be, then she really doesn't have much leg to stand on in being confused now.  More to the point, it doesn't matter whether ML knows what she did wrong, because the situation is between GSNW and her mother.  Mom wants to invite someone to GSNW's party who GSNW doesn't want there, and that's the start and finish of the situation.

And lastly, I'm of the opinion that ML doesn't get a pass on what she did because it was so very egregious.  One must be pretty badly off to eject a wet, crying, barefoot, towel-clad teenager from one's house into the snow and not at least wonder what brought it to pass.  It's not rational to assume that ML had no clue that something was wrong, and although GSNW said that she didn't address it with her friend, her friend was still involved enough to know what happened.  Unless ML's DD walked GSNW to the next house and then immediately left her there, ML's DD was there when the police were called.

Virg
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: GSNW on July 02, 2013, 07:36:54 PM
I spoke with my mom again today.  I am really making an effort here to focus on the current situation and not bring up a lot of sludge from the past, because a conversation with my mom can easily morph into a two-hour tearful session of "I didn't do enough/the right thing" etc and me having to assure her I'm not permanently damaged as a result.  My mom is VERY prone to guilt and I have to reassure her a lot that despite having made mistakes (what parent doesn't?) I turned out well-adjusted and relatively normal.

I told her that I am not interested in making my birthday a neighborhood event, and I would really just prefer to have in-town family, my DH, and my best friend and her husband there.  I want to make this about what would be a fun birthday for me (since she asked!) and not about who I don't want to see there.  This approach worked and my mom asked if she could plan a "surprise" based on a smaller guest list/tamer party, and I said okay.

I truly believe my mom understands the fact that I don't want to socialize with ML, she just doesn't get WHY.  In her mind, the years that have gone by with no repeat mean behavior should far outweigh one mean action.  That's fine, since she has conceded that we can each make our own choices about who to socialize with.

To clarify a few points, I never discussed it with my friend (ML's daughter, let's call her Amy) but it did impact our friendship.  Amy and I were friends with a larger group of six girls in our neighborhood all within 2 years of each other.  We did everything together, had a club complete with clubhouse, rituals, etc.  Very tight.  I was so uncomfortable with ML's treatment that I stopped going to Amy's house for anything - group hang-out, dinners, sleepovers, 1:1 friendship time, anything.  I never made a big deal out of it, I just opted out. 

Amy was still welcome at our house and was there as often as the other girls.  I want to think that my mother very much understood this because she never made an issue of me not being at Amy's house.  There was no time that I ever told Amy, "Your mom was mean to me," or anything like that - but I think she got it.  So did LeeAnn, another girl in our group - it was her house that Amy and I went to as a the second choice, her parents that took me seriously, let me call the police, gave me clothes.  (LeeAnn's father is also the pastor who married DH and I, incidentally!)

I feel a little inclined to defend my mom here simply because she is my mom, but I understand how difficult it is to justify her actions.  Like I said, I wish she had validated my feelings a little more vocally but I'm glad that she was able to respect my choice regarding the party. 
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: gramma dishes on July 02, 2013, 08:02:27 PM
So is she going ahead with her neighborhood barbeque and ALSO planning a smaller "surprise" event for just the people you named you'd like to spend your birthday with?  If so, will you be attending the barbeque?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: TurtleDove on July 02, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
OP, I am impressed with how you are handling this. I hope you enjoy your birthday!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: LifeOnPluto on July 02, 2013, 10:05:00 PM
Good update OP! But for the sake of being absolutely clear where you stand, I think you should tell your mother that the surprise party must NOT include Mean Lady!

And I think you're fine in opting out of the BBQ if Mean Lady is attending.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: weeblewobble on July 03, 2013, 08:37:47 AM
You handled this much more graciously than I would have, OP, because I think if my very reasonable request not to invite someone who had treated me with utter disdain and neglect to my birthday was met with silence and, "Are you really still that angry with her?"  I probably would have responded along the lines of, "Yes, I am still angry with someone who not only couldn't be bothered to help me, but literally turned me out into the cold when I was naked and defenseless and frightened.  And in the ensuing years didn't apologize or show that she has learned from her mistake."

It doesn't matter that your mother doesn't understand WHY you feel that way toward ML.  The fact is that you do.  And since the party is presumably for you, your mother needs to put you and your needs first, instead of worrying about pleasing other people.  I would not blame you if you walked out of the BBQ if you arrived to find ML there.

Seriously though, ML sounds almost criminally negligent in her treatment of you.  Had this been my mother and ML had treated me thus... being invited to a BBQ would have been the least of her concerns.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Daydream on July 03, 2013, 09:00:16 AM
I'm glad things are working out well, GSNW.  Have a happy birthday!
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Winterlight on July 03, 2013, 09:52:14 AM
TD - it sounds like she's a little like my father. My mother used to get exasperated that my father would be about to completely cut someone out of his life one day, but six months later would have conveniently forgotten what the dispute was about, and buy the person a drink. My mother's approach was to rarely get that angry, but if she was that angry, she did not consider the passage of time enough to make her change her mind about that person. If a person had seriously wronged her (or someone she was close to), she remembered, and it would have taken a lot to make her regain her faith in that person.

That's how I am too. It takes a lot to get me to that point, but when I hit it- we're done. Period.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground?
Post by: Minmom3 on July 03, 2013, 11:32:12 AM
My point is, I don't see anything that indicates to me that ML has any idea why or that her actions on that night so long ago were egregious or that the OP or her mom now or at any point were upset by them. I am not saying ML's acitons were not egregious.  I am saying I don't see any indication that ML knew what truly happened, knew the OP was (and is) upset, and refused to apologize.

I would contend that throwing a towel-clad teenage girl out of her house, into the snow, without giving her a chance to speak is automatically egregious. Full stop. Even if she knows nothing more of what happened, she should be ashamed. Even if the OP had been, say, trying to execute a poor prank, the woman's behavior would have been (imo) inexcusable.

Abso-damned-lutely.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Miss Understood on July 04, 2013, 11:52:58 PM
I am coming late to this discussion, but I agree with Turtledove that there is a significant disconnect between OP’s perception of the situation and ML’s, not to mention OP’s own parents and the neighborhood in general.

I went back to the original post about what happened, and OP stated:
” I rang the bell and I remember being scared out of my mind, my friend said I was a crying and whimpering mess. She shooed me into the kitchen so we could call the police once I blurted out that someone was in my house. Friend's mom (Mean Lady) was on the phone with a relative. She took a good look at me and said, 'I'm very busy with this phone call and I don't have time for dramatics. Go next door.'

So out the door we went, me still shoeless and in my towel, to use our other neighbor's phone (911 called, their daughter, also a friend, gave me sweats to change into and I waited there until my mom got home).”

Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house). 

I am in no way sympathizing with ML – if I had been in her place, with a scared crying child in front of me, I would have ended my phone call and figured out what was wrong, called police, gotten her dressed and comforted, and made cocoa.  I’m just hypothesizing about why there is such a disparate view of what happened between OP and everyone else involved.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: lorelai on July 05, 2013, 12:41:01 AM
I'm happy this situation is resolved for you, GSNW. Part of me is peeved that ML never got told off. In any case, I'm not the OP so I'm not the one that needs to come to peace with it all. I just wish OP's mom or someone, had confronted ML on her behavior.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: squeakers on July 05, 2013, 01:37:39 AM

Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house). 


Who would think a partially naked kid (a towel is not clothes) needs to go out in the snow regardless if there was clothes in the house that could fit or not is a good idea? 

Get off the phone! Find out what was going on.  Then decide if it was a prank or an emergency.

My boys have did some eye rolling things at times.  But first I found out if it was real or for fun (fake bloody clothes and cries of zombies attacking... ketchup and "Haha, mom got scared.")

ML is not someone I would associate with since she does not seem to care about what was happening in the here and now vs a phone call (back then).
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: ladyknight1 on July 05, 2013, 06:51:20 PM
POD Squeakers. I don't comprehend the other approach being offered by a few posters here.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: TurtleDove on July 05, 2013, 09:48:19 PM
Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: LeveeWoman on July 06, 2013, 12:29:21 AM

Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house). 


Who would think a partially naked kid (a towel is not clothes) needs to go out in the snow regardless if there was clothes in the house that could fit or not is a good idea? 

Get off the phone! Find out what was going on.  Then decide if it was a prank or an emergency.

My boys have did some eye rolling things at times.  But first I found out if it was real or for fun (fake bloody clothes and cries of zombies attacking... ketchup and "Haha, mom got scared.")

ML is not someone I would associate with since she does not seem to care about what was happening in the here and now vs a phone call (back then).

Just to emphasize.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: LeveeWoman on July 06, 2013, 12:34:48 AM
Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

What does that mean?

It's a fact that her mother distanced herself from this hideous person for a few years.

Bah.

This person is a toxic jerk. GSNW is well-rid of her.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Pen^2 on July 06, 2013, 01:07:09 AM
Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

I don't like the implications of this. There is a perception which most people hold that all stories have two sides, but this is not always true, especially for some of the less nice ones. I have personally been in a situation which was so outrageous that other people automatically felt that I must be exaggerating, and that the offenders would be exaggerating in their own way. "Oh, it can't be that bad. If it happened like you said, they wouldn't have done blah in response." Material evidence proved that actually, it had indeed happened the way I had described. It is hard sometimes to accept that something absolutely awful and against common decency has happened, because we ourselves find it inconceivable to do, unless you have been in such a situation yourself and have had the unhappy experience of not only going through something terribly upsetting, but having people assume you are a liar on top of it.

A lot of adults like to pretend away things they don't want to deal with. They'll just continue acting as though nothing happened and refuse to address it until everyone else does the same out of a lack of other options. That sounds like what may have happened in this case. Other people involved, seeing the response of the awful woman, would assume that GSNW was overreacting or exaggerating.

The fact that the response of this woman doesn't gel with GSNW's experience absolutely does not mean that GSNW is exaggerating or lying. It is, however, very consistent with the kind of person portrayed in GSNW's original story.

It is never, ever acceptable to send a girl wearing only a towel outside. It doesn't matter if you assume that she'll find some clothes from your daughter or that it's a prank or whatever pathetic excuse you like. You just don't turn your back on the girl and dismiss the situation. GSNW is rightly upset by being treated so inhumanely and it is quite reasonable for her to not want to interact with someone who wants to just ignore what happened.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Danika on July 06, 2013, 01:49:34 AM
I agree with Pen^2 (as usual). In groups, I think there are often a few abusive and pushy people and other spineless people who like to keep the peace. The peacekeepers often put up with a lot and the pushy people get away with too much.

I've seen it in my FOO (family of origin) and outrageous things are done and said and everyone else says to hush and sweep it under the rug in the name of preserving faaaaammmily harmony. I've never lived in a small town, but I imagine it's possible it's the same there. Everyone wants to get along. No one wants to be left out of activities and gatherings and so they let the pushy person get away with a lot because they don't want to stir up trouble and get ostracized.

I imagine a lot of people in town dislike ML and have their own stories and reasons but they all sweep it under the rug because they think that if they object, they'll be the ones who are cast out from the group, not her.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: *inviteseller on July 06, 2013, 03:24:08 AM
TurtleDove..may I ask why it is so important to find out what the neighbors feel about this woman?  Who cares if Mrs. Jones in the corner house with the lovely hydrangeas thinks neighbor lady is nice, or Mr Smith, the one with the yappy dog thinks she is a busy body? 

The OP's feelings for this woman are valid because this woman turned a scared towel clad child out in the snow because she didn't want to get off the phone and find out what was going on.  OP didn't have the time or probably the strength to argue, her and the woman's DD (her own DD!!!) ran to another neighbor's house.  Why should OP or her parents have had to go explain the situation and beg for an apology?  I am sorry, but there is no way in Hades that this woman did not know the outcome of why OP showed up like she did..these are neighbors close enough for OP to run to, she had to see the police and all the activity, and I am positive her own DD told her.

 OP's parent did freeze them out for a long period..did they tell her why?  Who knows, who cares!  I am sure OP's mom, given her description as peace maker, just found it easier to sart being civil to a neighbor (who seems to have a nice DD and DH) than keep freezing her.  Doesn't mean they are best friends..it means OP's mom is big on keeping up appearances.  I will be willing to bet, even though OP and her parents didn't blast it in the neighborhood (which is classy!), the neighbors knew..maybe not every detail, but they knew.  But the point is..who cares what the neighbors say or think?  This woman did something, that as a mother I cannot even conceive of doing to a scared child whether I knew them or not, and she is not someone I would ever want to lay eyes on again, much less socialize with. 

This is NOT about appearances and gossip in the neighborhood, this is about an adult who turned a child out in a veryveryvery bad time.  Why should OP cut her slack and say "well gee, maybe she didn't know?"  I don't know all of my neighbors, but you can believe we all know if there is some police issue going on at one of our houses, and even though not too many of the kids on my section of street socialize together (gender/age variables), all the parents would open up a door and help a kid out..and some of us already have for issues far less severe than what happened to OP.  She was a victim of a crime, and was victimized again by her rude neighbor who has a heart of stone.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: TurtleDove on July 06, 2013, 03:31:48 AM
"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Maggie on July 06, 2013, 04:14:40 AM
"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).

But according to the OP her mom did cut the ML off for a number of years.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: RingTailedLemur on July 06, 2013, 05:18:10 AM
Who gives a stuff if the other neighbours think that, why should the OP care?
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Hmmmmm on July 06, 2013, 05:49:41 AM
I agree with Pen^2 (as usual). In groups, I think there are often a few abusive and pushy people and other spineless people who like to keep the peace. The peacekeepers often put up with a lot and the pushy people get away with too much.

I've seen it in my FOO (family of origin) and outrageous things are done and said and everyone else says to hush and sweep it under the rug in the name of preserving faaaaammmily harmony. I've never lived in a small town, but I imagine it's possible it's the same there. Everyone wants to get along. No one wants to be left out of activities and gatherings and so they let the pushy person get away with a lot because they don't want to stir up trouble and get ostracized.

I imagine a lot of people in town dislike ML and have their own stories and reasons but they all sweep it under the rug because they think that if they object, they'll be the ones who are cast out from the group, not her.

I agree we are all putting our on experiences on this issue.  I just re read all the OPs posts about the woman and other than this specific incident I see no reference to the ML doing other heinous acts. No, she never acknowledge her mistake and apologized. But I don't see why we should assume this was a pattern of behavior.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: TootsNYC on July 06, 2013, 09:06:10 AM
Ladynight11, some of us are saying there must be some major disconnect between the OP's perception of events and what her parents and the neighborhood understood to have happened because this was apparently never directly addressed at the time and currently it seems only the OP is upset about it. I don't think any of us are saying that what ML did, as described by the OP was appropriate. We are saying the parents' and neighborhood's actual real life response doesn't jive with the OP's perception of what happened.

It does to me!

The OP's parents completely cooled on this woman. It's just not that realistic to think that the OP's parents should or would have gone across the street and yelled at her, then broadcast that into the newspapers so that everyone knows.

For all we know, the OP's mom or dad *did* directly say, "I'm not happy that you pushed her out." And they did cool all interactions.

But time goes on, and the incident doesn't repeat itself, and people forgive. They can't maintain fever pitch of anger. (The OP herself didn't, doesn't.) And while they may always remember that MeanLady is someone who is essentially selfish and can't be trusted in a pinch, that doesn't eliminate them from a social circle in which they are permanently entrenched. And as the years go by, and the number of perfectly ordinary interactions builds up on the "normal" side of the scale, it tips that direction.

It takes a heck of a lot of social energy and social capital to completely ostracize someone, and it takes a lot of energy and social capital to do so for years.

I don't even really fault the OP's mom for just sort of lumping this woman in the "neighbors we're friendly with" category, or for thinking "oh, ML is my daughter's friend's mom, therefore there's a sense of connection." Though I would hope that I'd be more tuned in to whether my daughter seemed to avoid her. (However, since the OP has moved away, there's been no opportunity to observe the daughter's reaction to this woman.)
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: *inviteseller on July 06, 2013, 09:10:10 AM
I think the OP is a class act and her and her family did not trash this woman then, nor is OP now.  She is keeping to just this situation.  But I find it hard to believe that this woman could have one instance of such horrific judgement, never apologizing or at least talking to OP at the time (and it was the woman's onus to clear up anything with OP, not the other way around) and be a one off.  Everyone makes mistakes that may hurt someone they know or love, but because we are human, we fall over ourselves to fix it so we can move on.  This woman did not, so I am willing to bet she is just not a pleasant person on a whole.  But if the neighbors are so judgmental that they will be talking because OP does not want to socialize with this woman, than they need lives.  Too many stories on these boards are about trying to establish boundaries with people we don't like, and getting others to respect the choice.  Most likely it is societal pressure that caused OP's mom to have to be civil to this woman, but why should OP fall victim to that.  She doesn't like this woman and she should not have to socialize with her and the neighbors can whisper among themselves all they want, but no one has a right, not family, not friends, certainly not your parents neighbors, to make you 'suck it up' for some harmony.  And if this woman doesn't like or understand the snub, she has had a few years now to clear the air with OP..and she never ever did.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: Twik on July 06, 2013, 09:12:45 AM
"What does that mean?"

I am not saying the OP's perception is wrong and I have said all along that she should stand her ground and not attend a party where ML is. However, she should also expect that "the neighborhood" will likely think the OP is the one making waves, and not ML, based on "the neighborhood's" reaction (or lack thereof) to what happened years ago. Either "the neighborhood" does not know what happened, or does not think it's a big deal. The OP certainly does not have to set the record straight, but based on what she has told us, "the neighborhood" does not grasp how or why the OP is upset.


Several posters have said, "ML is a horrible person - I would have nothing to do with her! She's disgustingly inhumane! I would cut her off forever!" The neighborhood had NOT reacted his way (nor has the OP's mom).

There are a lot of neighbours who, after the arrest of a horrible criminal living next door, will swear that s/he is the most unobjectionable person you could meet. I don't think you'd be wise to say, "well, Mr Smith can't really be that bad, since the neighbours liked him. The victim he tried to assault must be a little over dramatic. It just doesn't jive with their behaviour that he's a serial killer."

Neighbours merely see a public face, and also have a vested interest in getting along quietly. there's no particular reason to believe that they do know the whole story.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: ThistleBird on July 06, 2013, 10:55:52 AM
Quote
Is there a possibility, OP, that ML (and your parents) think that what she was saying was “go next door if you need to use the phone”?  You were already in her kitchen and she was not “throwing you out naked in the snow” as so many other posters have stated.  She may have thought that if you needed the phone nownownow that you would put on her daughter’s clothes/shoes before going to the second neighbor’s house (as you did at the second neighbor’s house).

Yeah, I'd been thinking that too--that we are not talking about literally, directly throwing a towel-clad girl out of the house into the snow (just saying something that could easily be interpreted that way by rightfully panicky teenagers)--but really, does it matter? Who on earth looks at a girl who has literally just run across the street (and in winter too) wet and in a towel and not only doesn't think "emergency" and doesn't respond with any help at all, but actually goes so far as to express scorn for her "dramatics"? Fine, so she never did anything like that again. If I was GNSW, the relevant part to me would be: I now understand how this woman views me (or, perhaps, girls my age in general) and I do not want to be in the same room with someone who views me that way.

As for the neighborhood, I'm with Danika. Part of human social behavior is to maintain harmony through polite fictions, and, all too often, to "sacrifice" people who are less central or powerful in the group for the sake of keeping the goodwill of people who are. I am personally leery of believing any group consensus over an individual's story. Doesn't mean I'm going to automatically jump the other way every time, but "Well, it's twenty against one so the one must be lying/exaggerating/misinterpreting" is not a good automatic response... "It's twenty against one so the twenty must have a vested interest" is just as likely to be true. (Oh, I have heard some stories... especially about group behavior when a religious leader has committed abuse, etc.) This is a general statement, not a suggestion that this is exactly what is happening here... I am just saying that I do not trust groups, and that usually the threshold for getting to "We must make a serious response against a respected group member because of what they did" is extremely high.
Title: Re: Get over it or stand my ground? - Update post #137
Post by: sparksals on July 06, 2013, 11:04:08 AM
I bet if the larger party goes on sans ML being invited, while the rest of neighbours are, deep down I bet she will know why.  The fact she never apologized tells me her character ain't pretty.