Etiquette Hell

Hostesses With The Mostest => Entertaining and Hospitality => Topic started by: lorelai on July 04, 2013, 04:36:23 PM

Title: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14, 40
Post by: lorelai on July 04, 2013, 04:36:23 PM
This happened a couple of months ago, and I'm curious how you all would have handled it.

<BG>I am allergic to both cats and dogs, so when DH and I moved in together, the month of me + him + cat was pure hell for me. He wanted her to be an outdoor cat eventually, but he's always lived in small apartments in downtown cities, so no place for a cat to wander around. When we moved in to a place in the hills, we decided to let her roam around during daytime and then put her in at night to sleep, in our detached garage. (The garage btw is really nice, carpeted, with a bathroom, not that she uses it :) and some furniture and hidey holes. Essentially, a cat's heaven, except there are no people in it, although he spends time with her every day.

Our kittie is terrified of most people, and of all other animals, so we decided to make our home pet-free and to tell people with pets in advance that pets aren't allowed, when we invite them over for bbqs or whatever. We blame it on kittie as even if we don't let her out for the day, she'll smell their scent in her territory and she doesn't like that at all. And also, I'm terrified of dogs.</BG>

We had friends (Mike, Eleni, and their 2 year old son Ike) from another country a couple months ago, and they stayed with us for two weeks. They were moving to our area from a country in Africa, and transitioning here to find a semi-permanent place to live. We actually stayed with them last year while visiting their country. They had an open invitation with us, and we were happy to host.

They are very animal friendly, and I am both allergic to and scared of dogs. One night we encouraged them to go out to a concert after they put Ike to bed, and we stayed back "babysitting" which meant checking up on him and watching him change sleep positions. It was basically their first date in 2 years, so we really wanted them to enjoy it. Couple things happened that night. First, they got back pretty late, and it was 1AM on a weeknight (and we didn't want to go to sleep just in case Ike woke up), and second, they brought back a stray dog with them!

DH went out to talk with them and was basically like, dude, no dogs or any pets allowed because of Lorelai's allergy plus this is Kittie's territory! But it was so late in the night to do anything about it. It just seemed like there were no good options for us. The dog was found 2 blocks from our house. They didn't want to let the dog free in case some harm came to it (we didn't like that either), but we also didn't want it in our yard. It was too late to call any neighbors about it. And DH didn't want to call animal control in case they put the dog down.

Houseguests were really apologetic for crossing the line, but in their eyes I could tell that they had a lot of empathy for the dog and that if they saw a stray dog of course they would stop to pick it up, and it never even occurred to them that it would upset us. Whereas if I see a stray dog sometimes I might think about calling animal control or calling a neighbor, but I would never stop to pick a dog up. Because Mike & Eleni don't own a dog, we never told them about our rule in advance, so I don't blame them for their actions. And in every other way they were wonderful houseguests.

I started to think maybe I was rude for even being the way I am, and that maybe I could cultivate a little more empathy for the dog. When I see cars stalled on the highway I don't stop - because I'm suspicious and feel that I need to protect myself from crazy people. This is a bit of a stretch, but the whole thing made me wonder. Is it rude not to extend kindness to others when it inconveniences you or puts you out, when the other (in this case the dog) truly needs help? I wonder what you all might have done in this situation.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Harriet Jones on July 04, 2013, 04:40:44 PM
Even if you weren't allergic/afraid, it seems strange to bring a random dog back to someone else's house.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Black Delphinium on July 04, 2013, 04:42:09 PM
Even if you weren't allergic/afraid, it seems strange to bring a random dog back to someone else's house.
Seriously.
No animal comes into my home without a clean bill of health. What if they'd infested your house with fleas, or worse?
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Roe on July 04, 2013, 04:50:06 PM
This might just boil down to a cultural issue but IMO, they were extremely (to put it nicely) rude, rude, rude! 

I'm not surprised you guys said 'no' to the dog staying.  I wouldn't either and I'm not allergic at all.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Katana_Geldar on July 04, 2013, 05:13:55 PM
You're nicer than me, I would not have let it stay. The most I would have said is "The dog may stay tonight, but no longer. Tomorrow he is going."

This is your home, you have the right to say no. And that's not rude.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Surianne on July 04, 2013, 05:35:47 PM
It sounds like your houseguests didn't know about your no dogs policy, or that you were afraid of dogs?  In that case I don't think they were unreasonable -- I would have picked up the lost dog too, and asked if we could put him in the backyard for the night if you weren't comfortable with him in the house.  He could get hurt or further lost overnight, so I can see why they did that.

That said, if you really can't have a dog in your backyard, I think it's also fine to enforce that.  If something like that ever happens again, Animal Control will usually take your name and contact info so that if they do decide to put the dog down, they'll call you (ie your friends) first and give you the chance to take him back.  I would ask about their policies.  Calling an emergency vet or shelter emergency line would be another tactic to ask for advice.  I think if I weren't allowing the dog in my home, I'd at least try to help them find someplace else for him.

It really is a tough spot for a dog lover to be in, seeing one lost and scared like that. 
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: EMuir on July 04, 2013, 06:35:56 PM
I would keep it in the garage, or shed.  Or tied in the backyard.  And call animal control.  They don't just kill dogs immediately, and the pound is where most people go looking.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Yvaine on July 05, 2013, 12:39:54 AM
It sounds like your houseguests didn't know about your no dogs policy, or that you were afraid of dogs?  In that case I don't think they were unreasonable -- I would have picked up the lost dog too, and asked if we could put him in the backyard for the night if you weren't comfortable with him in the house.  He could get hurt or further lost overnight, so I can see why they did that.

That said, if you really can't have a dog in your backyard, I think it's also fine to enforce that.  If something like that ever happens again, Animal Control will usually take your name and contact info so that if they do decide to put the dog down, they'll call you (ie your friends) first and give you the chance to take him back.  I would ask about their policies.  Calling an emergency vet or shelter emergency line would be another tactic to ask for advice.  I think if I weren't allowing the dog in my home, I'd at least try to help them find someplace else for him.

It really is a tough spot for a dog lover to be in, seeing one lost and scared like that.

I probably would have picked it up too.  :-[
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: blarg314 on July 05, 2013, 02:40:24 AM
The roommates of a friend of mine did that with a stray puppy. It gave the whole house fleas.

I'd say it's pretty presumptuous to arrive home at 1am, when you're staying as someone's houseguest, unexpectedly toting a stray dog and saying, basically  "It followed me home. Can I keep it?"

At most, I'd let them tie the dog up in in back (or leave it in an enclosed yard) with some water until it's morning and they can call the local animal control or pound. Definitely not in the house - I have no idea if this dog has got fleas, or what its temperament is, or whether it's safe to have in the house.

And animal control does not automatically kill stray animals that come through its door.  They do give the owners a chance to contact them to find the dog, and generally give other people a chance to adopt it, before killing it.

What were they expecting you to do?  Because if you're not taking it to the pound, you could be stuck with the dog for an extended period of time while trying to find the owner, and permanently if you've ruled out animal control or letting it loose.


Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Pen^2 on July 05, 2013, 03:22:25 AM
It sounds like the houseguests may have been aware that there was a no-pets policy, but they chose to ignore it. They felt their own needs and wants were more important. Not cool. They certainly knew about the policy once the OP's husband had explained it to them at the time.

And yes, it is hard to say no to an abandoned animal. But you shouldn't do a good deed at the expense of someone else! That's not how it works. I really feel this comes down to them putting themselves first, no matter how good their intentions may have been.

If you felt you absolutely had to accommodate them, you could tie the dog up outside the house, possibly, or put it in the garage and juggle the cat to somewhere else appropriate for the night (an infrequently-used room maybe). I would be hesitant at having the dog inside the garage, though, because it could have all kinds of diseases or parasites. It might not be toilet trained, or heavens know what else.

Where I lived until recently, animal services don't operate on weekends or outside normal office hours. It's actually how we ended up with our cat: we couldn't call anyone because it was a Friday night, and by the time Monday rolled around, we'd fallen in love. So calling might not always be an option. But it's your house, so your rules are law. "I'm sorry, that won't be possible" would be a good phrase here. "But it's lonely! and stray!" "Yes, and this is a dog-free home. That just won't be possible."

It is absolutely not rude to enforce rules in your own home, even if guests choose to forget them when convenient, and especially when there is a health-related reason (allergies should not be brushed aside). If they want to care for the dog, then it's their responsibility, not yours. It is on their heads to find a vet to check it's health and find a place for it in an animal boarding house until they either find it's original owner or find a property of their own where it can join them. You have a dog-free home. The sudden appearance of a dog does not change that--that's the whole point of the 'dog-free' policy.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Twik on July 05, 2013, 09:12:01 AM
What eventually happened to the dog? Because if they didn't want to turn it in to Animal Control, and they can't find the owner - well, I guess they still have the dog?
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on July 05, 2013, 09:24:45 AM
I'm the house that all stray cats and dogs turn up at.

I think it because Ive always got water bowls filled and sometimes food scraps out for our Magpie birds and crows.

I'll keep them overnight, but first thing in the morning I call Animal Control/ Council. They come, pick up the lost pet, keep it for a week themselves, and if no one turns up. Then they turn them over to a non kill shelter.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: *inviteseller on July 06, 2013, 09:39:17 AM
I am also the person that all strays flock too..if it has a fuzzy face, I feed it!  I have stopped on the side of the road to help animals and picked them up more times than I can count, but I would never take one to another persons house unless I knew in advance that they were like minded.  They may have thought because you have a cat, you would be ok with it.  I don't see this as rude though..more misinformed.  They were doing a wonderful thing by helping the animal but they just did not think of what they were going to do next. 

OP, I know you are allergic and afraid of dogs, but many shelters run programs aimed at helping people become more comfortable around them.  You don't have to go gaga and get one, but it can help ease a fear of something that is around you in everyday life.  You sound like a good person who would help an animal to the best of your abilities so it is a shame to have that (quite understandable) fear.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: Miss March on July 06, 2013, 10:03:29 AM
Quote
But it was so late in the night to do anything about it. It just seemed like there were no good options for us. The dog was found 2 blocks from our house. They didn't want to let the dog free in case some harm came to it (we didn't like that either), but we also didn't want it in our yard. It was too late to call any neighbors about it. And DH didn't want to call animal control in case they put the dog down.

So what did you end up doing? The dog couldn't stay in the garage (it was your cat's place), so.... did you tie it up outside for the night? Did it sleep in their car for the night? Did they end up releasing it to find its way home? What happened?
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: lorelai on July 06, 2013, 11:36:14 AM
The dog was aggressive and wouldn't let us get close enough to it to tie it up, so we just left it in our yard with some water. I think DH put out some cat food. :)

That night I posted the dog's photo/description/location where it was found, onto our neighborhood website (maybe 70% of our neighborhood is signed up for this social network for neighbors) and asked if anyone knew who owned the dog. I never did get a response to the post, but in the morning, Mike left for work and didn't see the dog anywhere. Our house is gated, and it ended up following him out of the house and back into the neighborhood. I felt really bad about that, but no one ever did claim him.

Mike is from around here and Eleni is not, so I'm not sure how much cultural differences played into it.

DH felt really strongly that he didn't want to call Animal Control - my impression of them was similar to several of yours, in that I thought they would at least be able to look up the dog's chip or try to contact the owner in some way, before doing anything drastic. His is that they would put him down and he didn't want to contribute to that. But our neighborhood is in the hills, and we have wild animals around here. No pets should be wandering around at night. In the end I don't think we helped the dog much.  :-[
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: lorelai on July 06, 2013, 11:39:18 AM
One other thing - my stance in the future hasn't changed about this. If I see a dog I won't pick it up due to my allergy and fear of aggressive dogs. It may not be the kind thing to do but I just can't risk it.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: gramma dishes on July 06, 2013, 12:05:07 PM
The dog was aggressive and wouldn't let us get close enough to it to tie it up, so we just left it in our yard with some water. I think DH put out some cat food. :)   ...



If it was so aggressive, how did they get it to your house in the first place?  No, I would not attempt to keep an aggressive animal in my house, my garage, or even my yard.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: camlan on July 06, 2013, 05:36:57 PM
About Animal Control--it varies greatly from place to place in the US. Sometimes they hold the animal for weeks, sometimes days. And policies can be different for cats and dogs in the same town. You have to check what your local Animal Control's policies are; you can't just go on past experience with other Animal Controls in other places.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: BarensMom on July 06, 2013, 07:36:16 PM
The dog was aggressive and wouldn't let us get close enough to it to tie it up, so we just left it in our yard with some water. I think DH put out some cat food. :)   ...



If it was so aggressive, how did they get it to your house in the first place?  No, I would not attempt to keep an aggressive animal in my house, my garage, or even my yard.

Here's the thing:  these people brought an aggressive animal to your house.  Then, instead of calling Animal Control, it was allowed to go free, because they were afraid the animal would be put down.  However, by that act, a aggressive dog was let loose into the neighborhood to possibly attack/injure another animal or a child. 
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Pen^2 on July 06, 2013, 09:08:35 PM
I wouldn't bother trying to explain this away with cultural differences. If someone is unaware of what is considered rude, that's one thing, but when lorelai's husband explicitly told them about the no-dog rule when they showed up with the aggressive animal, that's another thing entirely. Once you've been told not to do something and you still insist on doing it, you are not being polite. That's all there is to it.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Minmom3 on July 06, 2013, 11:50:11 PM
As far as I know, ALL shelters will scan a pet for a chip, and then call the company about the animal.  How long they will hold the animal while they wait for possible owner contact - I have no idea. 

Lorelei - I'd have been horribly uncomfortable in your position.  I'm not very allergic to dogs, just a bit of hay fever, but I would NEVER allow an unknown strange dog of dubious temperament in my home.  A know dog, or an obviously cheerful dog - sure thing, for a time.  But a stray?  Not in a million years....  I'd be really annoyed at guests who decided that was a good idea in MY home...  We'd have words!   >:(
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on July 07, 2013, 01:48:19 AM
Please try to think of this from the point of view of the dog...it probably wasn't aggressive, but defensive and terrified...people it didn't know were trying to corner it and tie it up and he probably acted out of fear much more than out of aggression.  It's unfortunate that he is loose again but hopefully he will find his way home.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: barefoot_girl on July 07, 2013, 02:56:41 AM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: blarg314 on July 07, 2013, 07:37:03 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

That's actually a really good point. In a lot of countries, you don't go near stray dogs because of rabies (not to mention other diseases). There are a lot of stray dogs where I live, and it's a rabies free country, and they're generally really well socialized, mellow stray dogs, and I would still not be comfortable bringing one of them home.

And I don't know enough about dog psychology to tell if a dog is being agressive because it's mean, or because it's frightened, or because it's trained to be aggressive to anyone other than it's owner. Even if I did, a frightened dog can still bite, and I don't have the training to keep myself from getting bitten.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: KenveeB on July 07, 2013, 07:48:03 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Hmmmmm on July 08, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.

I completely disagree. They brought a strange dog they knew NOTHING about to a home that was not theirs and with another animal in residence. They had no idea what type of desease or pests the dog could be carrying or whether the dog could become agressive to the humans or the cat. It was very irresponsible of them.

I'm sorry the dog was loose and displaying some type of distress that would prompt them to try and help. But this couple was not in a position or having resources to do anything helpful. They had no information about local animal control policies, they had no way of trying to find the owners on their own, and they had no way to feed or house the animal on their own. Instead they brought a problem home to the OP to deal with, which she tried to do. 

"I found this homeless guy on the corner. Would you put him up for the night, give him some food and then see if you can find a shelter for him to go to in the morning and maybe locate his lost relatives?"
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Cami on July 08, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.
I'm flabbergasted. They brought an animal to a home at which they were guests without permission. That is wrong on so many levels.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Twik on July 08, 2013, 02:23:49 PM
Our family adopted a stray dog once. Unfortunately, he was a cat-killer. We had to give him away, and the cat took nearly a year to get over the trauma of having her home invaded by what was, to her, a serial killer.

I'm pretty sure most people would have found something wrong in the guests' behaviour if the dog had come into contact with the cat and tried to kill it.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: EllenS on July 08, 2013, 03:41:49 PM
Look, helping the helpless (dogs or humans) is admirable.  Taking a stray dog into your home, if you are prepared to deal with it, is lovely.

This was not the couple's own home.  People may disagree about whether it is risky, foolish, etc - but there is no question that it was RUDE.

OP, there is no etiquette obligation to extend yourself in ways that make you feel afraid or uncomfortable.  Whether you have a moral obligation to do so, is a matter of ethical/spiritual values, which goes beyond etiquette.  Many traditions value sacrificing your own comfort for the good of others, but as far as I know, they all agree on two points:
1) your sacrifice should provide some actual benefit (something you can actually accomplish), and
2) it should be voluntary on your part, not a response to guilt, manipulation, or imposition by someone else.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: KenveeB on July 08, 2013, 08:10:49 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.
I'm flabbergasted. They brought an animal to a home at which they were guests without permission. That is wrong on so many levels.

If they insisted it had to be brought inside no matter what, I'd agree. But there are other options that don't involve risking OP's home or occupants in any way. They were perfectly fine with it being tied up somewhere safe. What on Earth is the harm in that? They were trying to save a life, at no cost to OP. If that's considered bad manners, sign me up.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Yvaine on July 08, 2013, 08:29:08 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.
I'm flabbergasted. They brought an animal to a home at which they were guests without permission. That is wrong on so many levels.

If they insisted it had to be brought inside no matter what, I'd agree. But there are other options that don't involve risking OP's home or occupants in any way. They were perfectly fine with it being tied up somewhere safe. What on Earth is the harm in that? They were trying to save a life, at no cost to OP. If that's considered bad manners, sign me up.

I agree. I would have accepted "keep it outside" as a response. Still better than running around in traffic.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: snowdragon on July 08, 2013, 09:13:01 PM
Animal control would have been called at the *very* least, had this happened in my home. I am extremely scared of all dogs - and would not have been comfortable even with it in my yard. ( nor would I have been happy to have to clean up after it)   I am not sure if I would have been able to trust the house guests again, either. I think I would have been wanting them out, ASAP, too.
   They brought an animal home, with out asking the occupants - good intentions or not that's a BIG boundary to cross. At the very least, they should have called and asked before just showing up with it...late hour or not. That they did not does not make me think highly of their manners, seriously.
   
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on July 08, 2013, 11:48:29 PM
As much as I do feel for the dog, like I mentioned abovethread, and I don't share other posters' terror of dogs, I have to say I agree with Snowdragon.  Regardless of intentions, (which I can appreciate) they brought an unwanted and unfamiliar dog into someone else's home fully aware it was pet-free.  Trying to keep it contained in the yard was a start, but if it were me I would have contacted Animal Control or the local Humane Society (who accept strays here) ASAP.

As for my post above about seeing it from the dog's point of view, I certainly didn't mean that the safety of the house's occupants is less important than how the dog feels.  I was just trying to say that I felt it unfair to label the dog "aggressive" when it was probably reacting out of fear.  If the OP sincerely believed the dog was aggressive or dangerous, the correct course would have been to immediately contact Animal Control to come deal with a dangerous dog....that's why they exist.  I apologise if I caused confusion.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: lowspark on July 09, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
I agree that it's just plain rude to bring an animal, really any animal, to someone's house without first clearing it with them. And this goes double for a stray agressive dog. At the very minimum, they should have called the hosts and cleared it with them before ever even trying to corral the animal in the first place.

Those of you who suggest keeping it outside, well, sorry, that presents a whole other set of problems. For example, I don't have a fenced in yard. Should the animal be tied up in the back yard to keep it from escaping? And regardless of the existence of fencing, what if it barks all night? What if it digs in the yard and causes damage? What if it somehow gets loose anyway?

Honestly, I do have a lot of sympathy for stray animals and would certainly rather see them get back to their owners or find a home if possible rather than go to the pound. But I'm no more equipped to handle that animal than I am equipped to help the homeless person in the above example. Does that make me a bad person? I really don't think so. There are plenty of people who would step up to help that animal and I applaud them. But only if they are doing it in their own realm of responsibility. The minute you wrangle the help of someone else who didn't also volunteer for the task, you've lost my admiration.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: SamiHami on July 09, 2013, 01:29:16 PM
I think these people are barmy, frankly - and given that they have lived in Africa, even more odd. Nobody goes near strange dogs in most African countries, or tries to entice them home, because they can carry nasty diseases. If the dog was showing signs of aggression, well, that jsut seems like even more good reason to steer well clear of it.

Your friends don't seem to have very good judgement. Had they been in a bar?

You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.
I'm flabbergasted. They brought an animal to a home at which they were guests without permission. That is wrong on so many levels.

If they insisted it had to be brought inside no matter what, I'd agree. But there are other options that don't involve risking OP's home or occupants in any way. They were perfectly fine with it being tied up somewhere safe. What on Earth is the harm in that? They were trying to save a life, at no cost to OP. If that's considered bad manners, sign me up.

The only polite thing they could have done would be to find an all night animal hospital and take the dog there to be fed, cleaned and checked over and possibly boarded if they had nowhere else to take the dog (and they refused to take it to a shelter). Taking an animal to anyone's home without permission is categorically rude. If they couldn't find an all night animal hospital, then I suppose their only other option would be to lock the dog in their car, with food, water and windows cracked for fresh air. That way any resulting issues would be theirs and theirs alone to deal with. Visiting your choices on other people is not an option (at least not a polite one).
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Pen^2 on July 09, 2013, 08:32:35 PM
POD lowspark. Hit the nail on the head.

There is nothing inherently rude about wanting or trying to help people/animals. But it is rude to volunteer other people to help without their knowledge/permission.

You want to help the poor stray dog? Good for you. You want to help it, at the expense of someone else who is allergic to dogs, is terrified of them, and is unable to give it a room for the night? Not cool. Bringing the dog home and asking if it's okay out of pure ignorance is one thing (although volunteering someone else's health, home, and peace of mind is still very rude here), but once you are told that it is not okay, the only polite thing to do is to immediately apologise and back off. It's terribly egocentric to just assume that other people will have exactly the same priorities as you, no matter how kind of justified your priorities seem. That's how the world works: we're all different. We can all be nice people but still do different things. Just because you'd look after a dog doesn't mean it is at all fair to assume your host is the same way.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: TootsNYC on July 09, 2013, 08:50:16 PM
Even if you weren't allergic/afraid, it seems strange to bring a random dog back to someone else's house.

Yeah, this is where I am. I would *never* do this to someone else, and I would be upset if someone did it to me. Even though I *like* dog and my allergies are not a big problem.

And if they found it 2 blocks away, they can leave it outside and let it *stay* a stray until the morning. (I'm always cautious about deciding a dog is a stray; if it's a runaway or an outdoor dog, I think it's best to sort of leave it alone so it can head back home again.)

I think they were incredibly rude. And even MORE rude to waltz in at 1am with a stray dog!

It's not their home. Period.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home
Post by: TootsNYC on July 09, 2013, 11:00:12 PM
The dog was aggressive and wouldn't let us get close enough to it to tie it up, so we just left it in our yard with some water. I think DH put out some cat food. :)   ...



If it was so aggressive, how did they get it to your house in the first place?  No, I would not attempt to keep an aggressive animal in my house, my garage, or even my yard.

Here's the thing:  these people brought an aggressive animal to your house.  Then, instead of calling Animal Control, it was allowed to go free, because they were afraid the animal would be put down.  However, by that act, a aggressive dog was let loose into the neighborhood to possibly attack/injure another animal or a child.


Eh,they only moved it 2 blocks. It's not like it couldn't have wandered that distance on its own.


Edited to add--aggressive in response to people wanting to actively get close enough to put a collar/leash/rope on it is not the same thing as aggressive enough to spontaneously attack a child/animal.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Winterlight on July 10, 2013, 09:26:27 AM
I adore dogs. Let me just put that out there.

However, I still think they were rude to just show up with one and expect you to cope at 1AM.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: lorelai on July 14, 2013, 02:53:07 AM
At the time my husband and I both decided that it would be OK for the dog to stay in the yard that night while we figured out next steps. I think the dog was probably aggressive because it was scared. It was wandering around at night, so I didn't feel so bad about it going out in the daytime, although I hope it got back home because wandering around at night in our neighborhood is dangerous.

I think in this case I would never ever bring a pet to someone's home like this. I actually do think it would be rude of ME if I did this. However, these houseguests weren't trying to be rude - they were trying to be kind - so I have to remember their intentions, clueless though they might have been.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14, 40
Post by: miranova on July 19, 2013, 11:27:43 AM
Dogs do manage to escape their homes sometimes, and that does not automatically make them strays, nor does it mean that they are in immediate danger of dying.  I'm not understanding all of the comments about saving a life.  It's just as likely that this was someone's pet who would have wandered right back home.  I'd feel differently if the animal were injured or something but it was just walking around, maybe even on the way back to its house.  I don't think I'd be trying to "rescue" an animal until I was pretty sure it was actually in need of rescuing.

No matter what someone wants to do to help, it is always rude to volunteer other people's resources for your mission.  If you want to help, then YOU help with the resources that you have.  Or ASK people if they want to help.  Imposing an animal on anyone at 1am is most definitely rude.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14, 40
Post by: gramma dishes on July 19, 2013, 12:55:40 PM
Also, tying up a dog outside is not always the smartest thing to do.  In some areas (ours) there are free ranging animals that would prey on dogs or cats outside.  A "loose" dog has a chance to either fight or hide or run.  A tied up dog loses two of those options. 
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14, 40
Post by: Twik on July 20, 2013, 09:47:05 AM
What if, in all this concern for saving the dog, the cat comes out and the dog kills it? That is what would be my biggest worry here.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: TootsNYC on July 20, 2013, 11:14:32 AM

I think in this case I would never ever bring a pet to someone's home like this. I actually do think it would be rude of ME if I did this. However, these houseguests weren't trying to be rude - they were trying to be kind - so I have to remember their intentions, clueless though they might have been.

What you want to remember is that they will throw YOU under the bus to help a stray dog in a neighborhood that isn't even their own. Their kindness extends toward "obvious mercy cases" and in fact makes them willing to take things *away* from other people.

And you should remember that they consider your resources to be their own.

Because, this:

No matter what someone wants to do to help, it is always rude to volunteer other people's resources for your mission.  If you want to help, then YOU help with the resources that you have.  Or ASK people if they want to help.  Imposing an animal on anyone at 1am is most definitely rude.
Title: Re: Houseguests bring uninvited dog to our pet-free home - Update #14
Post by: Surianne on July 20, 2013, 12:07:58 PM
You don't have to be drunk or an idiot to try to help an animal in distress. I've helped numerous stray dogs and have never come close to being bitten, scratched, or attacked in any way. Unless I missed something major, the OP isn't in an African country. In my part of the country, it's not a major health hazard to go near a stray dog. You just have to show a little basic caution.

I don't think OP's friends did anything wrong. They tried to help a dog that needed it. OP clearly said that she had never told these friends about the no-dog policy, so it's not as if they were intentionally violating OP's rules. I wouldn't have any problem with my friends bringing a stray dog to my house if they found it while they were staying with me. I wouldn't be able to bring it in because of my own pets, but I'd find a way to keep it safe in the garage or backyard until morning and then contact Animal Control. I'd do the same if I was staying with a friend, unless I specifically knew that they couldn't allow dogs there under any circumstances. It just seems to be the basic, compassionate thing to do under the circumstances.

I agree on all points here.