Etiquette Hell

Hostesses With The Mostest => Entertaining and Hospitality => Topic started by: laud_shy_girl on July 05, 2013, 06:46:04 AM

Title: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: laud_shy_girl on July 05, 2013, 06:46:04 AM
Post #22106 in Special Snowflakes got me thinking.

Hypothetically, what with me being already married and never ever, ever wanting to have anything to do with planing or being involved in another wedding every again (don't ask )  ;) Is it rude to plan a Dutch wedding?

A scenario-
Adam and Eve are in love and decide to get married. They are totally broke, but for many reasons still want to get married.
They are happy to just go and see a JoP/registrar and have parents as witnesses. People keep telling them what a shame it is they are not having a "wedding" and how much they want to share the day with them.

So the question.

Would it be rude to tell people.

"We are getting married at x time on y date and then going for a meal at z restaurant. We can't afford a are not having a reception but if you want to call the restaurant and join our group you can. It's xx:xx time. restaurant is happy to add people to our table or if you prefer sit us near each other. They have said they will do individual checks for people.(maybe not this) If you feel like coming along we will see you there." (assuming they find a restaurant happy to do this.)

or alternatively a nicer idea might me (weather permitting) 

"we are getting married at x time on y date and having a picnic at the park at xx:xx time. Feel free to bring a picnic with you and join us. "

I think both of these are ok as long as no formal invites or done and it's word of mouth.

what do you think?
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: WillyNilly on July 05, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Personally? I think its fine. I especially like the picnic idea.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: chicajojobe on July 05, 2013, 08:19:42 AM
I wouldn't personally feel it's rude, but I think the picnic scenario makes things a little more clear. With the restaurant scenario I feel like, even-though you said it isn't a reception, guests might show up expecting it to be a reception and thus would be offended when the checks came and they were expected to pay for their own meal.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Twik on July 05, 2013, 09:06:50 AM
I'd go with the picnic, if it's feasible. In that way, the HC can at least provide minor refreshments (say, a pitcher of lemonade); the guests can bring their own more substantial repasts as they wish.

The other type of invitation sounds like they are, very awkwardly, trying to not pay (which is, I suppose, the truth), but the stress seems to be more on the "please understand, we're not paying" rather than "you can join us, and bring what you feel like".
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Winterlight on July 05, 2013, 09:22:42 AM
I think the picnic would be a better choice than a restaurant for that. Still  not a fan of it, though.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: cattlekid on July 05, 2013, 09:33:26 AM
Well, IMHO, if the only reason that you are thinking of planning this is that you are getting pushback from people who "want to share your day with you", it might be wise to sit down with your husband and really think about what *YOU* want.  Do you even want to spend time on your wedding day with these people?  Or are you just bowing to the pressure? 

If you really want to do something to include others, then I like the picnic idea.  Otherwise, I would just beandip anyone who is rude enough to try to shoehorn into your plans without being asked first. 

(Disclaimer:  Due to our lack of polite spines, DH and I were forced into having a large wedding by family pressure, and we are still regretting it 10 years later. If we had to do it all over again, we would have eloped and let the chips fall where they may.)
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: rose red on July 05, 2013, 10:02:12 AM
I think both are kind of odd.  Maybe not rude (I don't know if it is or not), but odd.  The wording is kind of like "drop by if you want, we don't care either way.  BTW, you'll need to provide your own food."

If the couple want a small celebration and can afford cake (even from a cake mix), it would be better to say "Please stop by to join us for cake" or something like that.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: nuit93 on July 05, 2013, 11:04:16 AM
First of all, if the people who are not invited to the ceremony are putting wedding in quotation marks, that would strike me as bothersome.  A JoP wedding is still a wedding.

Do they really want to share the day with the HC, or are they just looking for a party?  It seems that anyone who really cares about the couple would understand why they can't afford to host a reception and would be happy to join them on a picnic.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Twik on July 05, 2013, 11:26:41 AM
Yes, but if you're inviting people to any sort of gathering, it is a general rule that you provide *some* sort of refreshment. You're asking for their time, you need to show some effort to make them comfortable. There are ways of doing this that are very inexpensive, but at least a token show should be made - a couple of litres of soft drinks, some paper cups and a plate of cookies aren't going to break most people.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: EllenS on July 05, 2013, 12:31:22 PM
I think if A&E dont want to host people, then they just don't.  You say, "we are not having a big wedding." 

But, if the only obstacle is money, there is no financial obligation to entertain on a certain "scale", as long as the invitation is not misleading.  If they do want to have a reception that consists of punch & cake in the backyard or a park, then great - that is a perfectly legit wedding reception, and they may issue invitations as such.  "light refreshments at 2:00 in the afternoon" or something, would convey that just fine.  Honestly, I would think even the brokest of broke could do lemonade or iced tea and a homemade cake.   

If other people want so badly to party with A&E and celebrate "their day", then THEY can throw a party in A&E's honor. Of course A&E are far to well-bred to suggest such a thing, but it is the healthy, polite alternative.

Anybody can throw a party in someone's honor, anytime they want to (as long as they can persuade peope to show up).
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Tea Drinker on July 05, 2013, 12:36:33 PM
Post #22106 in Special Snowflakes got me thinking.

Hypothetically, what with me being already married and never ever, ever wanting to have anything to do with planing or being involved in another wedding every again (don't ask )  ;) Is it rude to plan a Dutch wedding?

A scenario-
Adam and Eve are in love and decide to get married. They are totally broke, but for many reasons still want to get married.
They are happy to just go and see a JoP/registrar and have parents as witnesses. People keep telling them what a shame it is they are not having a "wedding" and how much they want to share the day with them.

So the question.

Would it be rude to tell people.

"We are getting married at x time on y date and then going for a meal at z restaurant. We can't afford a are not having a reception but if you want to call the restaurant and join our group you can. It's xx:xx time. restaurant is happy to add people to our table or if you prefer sit us near each other. They have said they will do individual checks for people.(maybe not this) If you feel like coming along we will see you there." (assuming they find a restaurant happy to do this.)

or alternatively a nicer idea might me (weather permitting) 

"we are getting married at x time on y date and having a picnic at the park at xx:xx time. Feel free to bring a picnic with you and join us. "

I think both of these are ok as long as no formal invites or done and it's word of mouth.

what do you think?

What I think is that Adam and Eve would be entitled to say something like "We really aren't up to throwing a party, but if you wanted to, that would be cool," if they felt they were being pressured to have a larger wedding and reception because other people wanted to go to a party. Or to say frankly that they just didn't want the foofaraw, whether or not money was a reason.

Beyond that, I think it depends on whether Adam and Eve are doing the just-the-JP thing because they're totally broke or for some other reason. It would absolutely be okay to keep repeating "thanks, but we're having the wedding we want," especially if they are broke and not big on throwing parties anyhow, so they were relieved to realize that it made financial sense to just go to the JP with their parents.

I'm assuming here that their parents don't want the excuse to throw a big party: I don't think a bride or groom's parents are responsible for paying for a wedding, but they certainly could have said "we'll be happy as long as we get to see you married, but if you want a larger wedding we'd be delighted to host" and then said what they were willing/able to spend.

If the people getting married want to have a party and are too broke, then the picnic idea makes sense: if you can afford your own restaurant meals, you can afford the pitcher of lemonade and cookies to share around. I have been to a potluck wedding, and if anyone thought it was an inappropriate idea, I didn't hear about it (they may have quietly declined the invitation, of course). This wasn't a social group where people tended to have fancy or expensive parties; it was more "we're having people over on Saturday if you're free" and guests contributed drinks or snacks, and it was okay to ask about bringing another friend along.

I'm not sure why that feels reasonable and "we will be at restaurant X, you will have to buy your own meal" doesn't; maybe the levels of formality don't match?
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: laud_shy_girl on July 05, 2013, 12:47:07 PM
Post #22106 in Special Snowflakes got me thinking.

Hypothetically, what with me being already married and never ever, ever wanting to have anything to do with planing or being involved in another wedding every again (don't ask )  ;) Is it rude to plan a Dutch wedding?

A scenario-
Adam and Eve are in love and decide to get married. They are totally broke, but for many reasons still want to get married.
They are happy to just go and see a JoP/registrar and have parents as witnesses. People keep telling them what a shame it is they are not having a "wedding" and how much they want to share the day with them.

So the question.

Would it be rude to tell people.

"We are getting married at x time on y date and then going for a meal at z restaurant. We can't afford a are not having a reception but if you want to call the restaurant and join our group you can. It's xx:xx time. restaurant is happy to add people to our table or if you prefer sit us near each other. They have said they will do individual checks for people.(maybe not this) If you feel like coming along we will see you there." (assuming they find a restaurant happy to do this.)

or alternatively a nicer idea might me (weather permitting) 

"we are getting married at x time on y date and having a picnic at the park at xx:xx time. Feel free to bring a picnic with you and join us. "

I think both of these are ok as long as no formal invites or done and it's word of mouth.

what do you think?

What I think is that Adam and Eve would be entitled to say something like "We really aren't up to throwing a party, but if you wanted to, that would be cool," if they felt they were being pressured to have a larger wedding and reception because other people wanted to go to a party. Or to say frankly that they just didn't want the foofaraw, whether or not money was a reason.

Beyond that, I think it depends on whether Adam and Eve are doing the just-the-JP thing because they're totally broke or for some other reason. It would absolutely be okay to keep repeating "thanks, but we're having the wedding we want," especially if they are broke and not big on throwing parties anyhow, so they were relieved to realize that it made financial sense to just go to the JP with their parents.

I'm assuming here that their parents don't want the excuse to throw a big party: I don't think a bride or groom's parents are responsible for paying for a wedding, but they certainly could have said "we'll be happy as long as we get to see you married, but if you want a larger wedding we'd be delighted to host" and then said what they were willing/able to spend.

If the people getting married want to have a party and are too broke, then the picnic idea makes sense: if you can afford your own restaurant meals, you can afford the pitcher of lemonade and cookies to share around. I have been to a potluck wedding, and if anyone thought it was an inappropriate idea, I didn't hear about it (they may have quietly declined the invitation, of course). This wasn't a social group where people tended to have fancy or expensive parties; it was more "we're having people over on Saturday if you're free" and guests contributed drinks or snacks, and it was okay to ask about bringing another friend along.

I'm not sure why that feels reasonable and "we will be at restaurant X, you will have to buy your own meal" doesn't; maybe the levels of formality don't match?
[/b]

bolded is it exactly. That was the thought that inspired the question.

This is a totally made up scenario so please take everything at face value.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on July 05, 2013, 06:12:46 PM
I really feel like whenever you host a party, it has to be a party you can afford to host. If you can't afford to host people at a restaurant, that is absolutely fine, but then you can't have the party at a restaurant. Have a dessert tea at you house with lemonade, tea, coffee, and a few desserts. Or something even smaller and less formal if you need to. It's OK to have something really small, but the important thing is for the hosts to do the hosting, which includes paying for the party.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: laud_shy_girl on July 05, 2013, 06:59:17 PM
The thing with this is, they are not hosting. They are just in a particular place and saying to people if you happen to be there, cool.

First of all, if the people who are not invited to the ceremony are putting wedding in quotation marks, that would strike me as bothersome.  A JoP wedding is still a wedding.

Do they really want to share the day with the HC, or are they just looking for a party?  It seems that anyone who really cares about the couple would understand why they can't afford to host a reception and would be happy to join them on a picnic.

As I said totally hypothetical.
I used "wedding" to mean BWW/party thus the quot marks. It was my poorly executed attempt at differentiating between the marriage and the reception (aka wedding)


I just find it interesting that getting married has so many strings.

If Eve was talking to a friend and told them "I got a new job/got in to the school I want/passed my driving test" and friend expressed that Eve should celebrate. Eve saying "oh Adam and I are having dinner/a picnic at x...come along if your free and fancy it. it should be a laugh."

There would be no expectations of hosting.

Am I making sense as to why this thought keeps going round my head.

For the record I had a Little white wedding I knew we could afford and hosted accordingly. 
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: SuperMartianRobotGirl on July 05, 2013, 07:03:55 PM
People don't usually get presents for graduating from driver's training, but people usually do for weddings. An event where they will most likely get presents should be hosted by someone - either the guest or by someone else for the guest. Same for any other event where people generally bring presents - graduation party, baby shower, etc. Getting together because you're excited you got the high bowling score? No problem, have people meet you somewhere and buy their own beer.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: blarg314 on July 05, 2013, 07:35:52 PM

I think what would be best would be to say to the friends "We can't afford to host a party. If you want to throw one for us, or take us out for dinner, we'd be delighted".

In other words, if it's so important to their friends to have a party, their friends should be willing to throw a party, right? And having friends host a party to celebrate your wedding would be perfectly fine, etiquette wise.

I have actually been invited to a bring your own food drink and chair BBQ in a public park after some classmates got married, and I remember thinking that hey, if they want to throw a bit party, I don't mind casual, but they could at least provide some hamburgers, chips and pop. It's a bit much to be invited to a party to celebrate someone else's wedding and have it be both totally pay your own way and kind of inconvenient.

Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: kudeebee on July 05, 2013, 09:35:09 PM
I think A and E should get married at the JP if that is what they want and forget about inviting people to join them for a celebration dinner, whether restaurant or picnic.  This is not a group of friends getting together, each paying their own way; it is to celebrate a marriage.

I agree with others who suggest marrying at JP, then hold a simple cake/cookies/punch reception.  Host what you can afford to host.  Otherwise keep the celebration to HC and their parents.  To the others: "We are having a wedding--the wedding that we want to have."  Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: lowspark on July 08, 2013, 03:51:22 PM
A scenario-
Adam and Eve are in love and decide to get married. They are totally broke, but for many reasons still want to get married.
They are happy to just go and see a JoP/registrar and have parents as witnesses. People keep telling them what a shame it is they are not having a "wedding" and how much they want to share the day with them.

Their reply should be something like,
Thank you for your thoughts but this is the wedding we want.
Full stop.

Really, there's no need to justify their choice, whatever it is. If Aunt Mary is insisting that Adam and Eve do their wedding her way, then she is the rude one.

Honestly, I don't like the idea of the dutch wedding as you suggest and agree with the "give the party you can afford (and want to give)" philosophy.

So yeah. If they want to do a cake and punch reception, great. If they decide they do want to host dinner at a restaurant, fine. And if they decide that they want to do absolutely nothing, well, that's fine too. And their friends will just have to buck up and accept that.
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Thipu1 on July 09, 2013, 08:43:55 AM
I'm not wild about either idea but the picnic sounds the better choice of the two.

I can also see the, 'We're having dinner at X.  Stop by if you like' idea posing real problems for the restaurant.  Imagine all these friends popping in about the same time with no reservations.  The results could be chaotic. 



Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: Lynn2000 on July 09, 2013, 09:51:38 AM
The restaurant version seems a little weird to me, and likely to impose on the restaurant--disorganized, people not calling ahead, everyone sitting in the same section, etc..

Otherwise I think it depends on what Adam and Eve really want. If they definitely want a party, they need to host the party they can afford. That could be a light cake-and-punch reception in a public building or a friend's home; or it could be a potluck where everyone (including them) contribute something, if that's generally done in their social circle. Or, honestly, sometimes there are people (like parents, perhaps) that you can say to, "We would really like something bigger, but we can't afford it. Would you be able to help us out, since you also want us to have something bigger?" I don't think this is strictly polite and it should not be broadcast on Facebook to all and sundry, but there may be some people where the relationship permits that kind of conversation.

If they're cool with a gathering of people but would also be cool being alone, the "bring your own meal" picnic is kind of nice. Just in case I think they should have some extra soft drinks and maybe cups/napkins/plates/silverware on hand--that kind of stuff can be bought cheaply and doesn't go bad, so they can use it themselves if few people attend, and it shows they've given some thought to the people they mentioned the event to.

What about something like, "After the ceremony we'll be at Bar X from 5pm to 7pm, if anyone wants to drop by." No food involved, but people can stop in for ten minutes, have a beer, and wish them well; and it would be casual enough that I don't think people who show up would expect anything paid for or organized. That really depends on your group of guests though--Grandma or your cousins with young kids or whatever might not appreciate this type of "reception" much.

If they really don't want a party but are feeling family pressure, I think they need to stand up and say, "We're having the wedding that we want." The end, no further options given. I think if it's Great Aunt Matilda saying, "You need to have a 'proper' wedding reception!" she's not going to be satisfied with a bring-your-own-meal picnic or a potluck, and possibly not even cake-and-punch, you know? So unless she's putting up the money and the HC agree to do whatever she wants as long as she pays the bill, she's not going to be happy (and my guess is she also won't be happy to pay!). So Great Aunt Matilda is never going to be happy, basically, in which case the HC might as well do what makes them happy (with the caveat of showing consideration for their guests, if they invite guests).
Title: Re: Is it really rude S/O SS Thread
Post by: DottyG on July 09, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
I really feel like whenever you host a party, it has to be a party you can afford to host. If you can't afford to host people at a restaurant, that is absolutely fine, but then you can't have the party at a restaurant. Have a dessert tea at you house with lemonade, tea, coffee, and a few desserts. Or something even smaller and less formal if you need to. It's OK to have something really small, but the important thing is for the hosts to do the hosting, which includes paying for the party.

I agree with every word of this.