Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: norrina on July 30, 2013, 02:18:30 PM

Title: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: norrina on July 30, 2013, 02:18:30 PM
[longgggg background]
DF and I are a little over two weeks out from our very small, family only, wedding. The RSVP date is tomorrow.

Right around the time that we were sending out invitations, DF and a close friend of mine ("Julie") were finally able to meet for the first time. Julie very much approved of DF (she was not a fan of my ex, with good reason), and was very happy for us. During the course of relaying all this to me she enthusiastically said, "I want to be invited to the wedding!", at which point I relayed that we were actually having an immediate-family-only event.

If we had been planning a friends wedding Julie would have been invited without a doubt, and likely would have been asked to be an attendant. As it was, I had toyed with the idea of asking Julie to officiate the wedding, as a workaround to our "family only" plan, but ultimately decided I was more comfortable having my brother perform that role. Knowing that I had really wanted Julie at our wedding, when we got home DF told me that if I wanted to invite Julie I should go ahead and do so, and so we did. [/end longgggg background]

The Question
Yesterday Julie and I were texting/emailing/IMing, and she brought up the wedding. I asked if she thought she would be able to make it, since the last time we spoke she needed to see if she could get the time off work. I don't have an RSVP back from her, but I don't have one back from over half our guests, and with such a small guest list it isn't a big deal because I know almost everyone's plans personally. She responded that she was coming, and then asked if she could bring a plus one. I told her that sadly, I was going to have to say no, citing occupancy limits. (Which is true, her attendance brings us to the maximum number of people allowed in our building, though even if space permitted we still would have said no due to the intimate nature of the event.) She stopped chatting after that.

I'm not particularly concerned about her bringing a plus-one anyhow, but at this point, now I don't know if she is coming. And the invitation was not for a specific time, think "brunch", "high tea", "sunrise", or "dusk" type of wording, so if she is still coming, I'll need to let her know exactly what time we will be saying our vows. Should I come out and ask her if she'll still be coming? Just assume my answer didn't change her plans, and let her know the ceremony time? Some other option I'm not thinking of?

The whole situation just got fairly awkward. I never expected to have the "plus one" question come up at my less-than-20-guests wedding.  ???


Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: JenJay on July 30, 2013, 02:30:30 PM
I'd act as if she graciously understood your reasoning, got suddenly pulled away from her phone and was unable to say "Okay, no problem." and continue under the assumption that she's still coming.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: mw8242 on July 30, 2013, 02:38:19 PM
I would think if she's a good friend she understands your reasoning and is fine. So if you did not get her RSVP in a timely manner I would treat her just like the others and follow up to see if she's attending. So if you don't get an RSVP by end of week I'd just text her and let her know what time the vows are and confirm her attendance at the occasion. She basically invited herself to your event and you graciously extended a formal invitation, expecting more than that would be even more presumptuous of your friend.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: TootsNYC on July 30, 2013, 03:09:50 PM
I'm not sure why your invitation couldn't be specific about the start time of the actual event (who cares when the actual vows fall within that time frame? it's not important).

But since she doesn't have that info, simply tell her. Feel free to send it by text.
"The wedding starts at 5:30pm--hope you can still make it."


And then just move forward.

And remember this phrase: "least said, soonest mended."
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: lowspark on July 30, 2013, 03:24:55 PM
I'm not sure why your invitation couldn't be specific about the start time of the actual event (who cares when the actual vows fall within that time frame? it's not important).

But since she doesn't have that info, simply tell her. Feel free to send it by text.
"The wedding starts at 5:30pm--hope you can still make it."


And then just move forward.

And remember this phrase: "least said, soonest mended."


I like this except I'd change "hope you can still make it" to "look forward to seeing you there".

Quote
... She responded that she was coming ...
So go on the assumption that she is coming rather than making it sound like there is any doubt.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: norrina on July 30, 2013, 03:33:26 PM
I'm not sure why your invitation couldn't be specific about the start time of the actual event (who cares when the actual vows fall within that time frame? it's not important). ...

Because when we sent out the invitations, we had not 100% decided whether we were going to be so cruel as to have a sunrise ceremony, or maybe hold off until 8:00 a.m. or so. We're hosting our family (who are all coming from hundreds of miles away, while Julie is local) in accommodations directly across the street from our ceremony location, so the original plan was to make a final decision the night before based on the weather forecast. If there's little chance of catching a pretty sunrise, I'm sure everyone would appreciate sleeping in a bit, so in this instance probably everyone will care when the party actually kicks off.  ;) The invitations said something along the lines of, "at sunrise, or shortly thereafter". 
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: TootsNYC on July 30, 2013, 03:51:10 PM
If she had said yes, w/ no further questions, how would you tell her about the time of the ceremony?

So now just tell her that way, regardless of anything else.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Lynn2000 on July 30, 2013, 04:08:26 PM
POD, I would go with the assumption she's still coming and nothing has changed, and if that's not true, she should let you know that the next time you talk to her, or sooner (if she's polite). It could indeed be that she was called away unexpectedly and that her silence has nothing to do with denying the plus-one.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: *inviteseller on July 30, 2013, 06:36:46 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: snowdragon on July 30, 2013, 06:46:18 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.

I hope she does not show with a date, but yeah, I think hideously rude for asking first for an invite for herself and then another for her plus one.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: norrina on July 30, 2013, 07:03:35 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.

I really, really, really hope this does not happen. I will be the "female dog" that turns them both away, and I will not appreciate being put in the role of bad guy on my wedding day.

I'm glad to see that the consensus is to just act as if she is still coming, alone, though. My preference was to just act like the conversation never happened, but I wasn't sure if that would be passive aggressive.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Lynn2000 on July 30, 2013, 07:40:11 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.

I really, really, really hope this does not happen. I will be the "female dog" that turns them both away, and I will not appreciate being put in the role of bad guy on my wedding day.

I'm glad to see that the consensus is to just act as if she is still coming, alone, though. My preference was to just act like the conversation never happened, but I wasn't sure if that would be passive aggressive.

I think it's not, "this conversation never happened," but more like, "the conversation happened, and nothing has changed." If you feel nervous about it now, you could try checking in with her again, something that assumes she's coming, like, "So, have you booked your room at Hotel?" or "What are you doing for dinner the night before?" Very casual, as you might ask anyone. And she what she says.

I think that technically, it is rude that she asked for an invitation in the first place, but I read it as being more a silly thing she said without thinking because she was so excited for you. I got the impression you're pretty close to her and it seems like you went to some trouble to find a way to include her, after initially declining--it's not like you "caved" and invited her only because she invited herself, right?

For the plus-one, I assume she doesn't have a partner you know about, right? Maybe she was worried that she wouldn't know anyone else there and wouldn't have anyone to talk to. You could try chatting with her just to chat, asking her how she's been, if there's anything new in her life... ::cough:: new SO ::cough:: It just seems like you're getting a negative vibe from her over this conversation, and that's too bad; it would be a shame for you to worry about it from now until the wedding, so maybe get in touch with her soon "just because" and take her temperature overall, you know? If she was her normal, happy self then you would probably stop worrying about it. :)
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: LeveeWoman on July 30, 2013, 07:42:07 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.

I really, really, really hope this does not happen. I will be the "female dog" that turns them both away, and I will not appreciate being put in the role of bad guy on my wedding day.

I'm glad to see that the consensus is to just act as if she is still coming, alone, though. My preference was to just act like the conversation never happened, but I wasn't sure if that would be passive aggressive.

Is there anyone in your family who can perform this duty for you? You don't need to be upset on your wedding day.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: norrina on July 30, 2013, 08:35:33 PM
You could call her and tell her the time, but personally I think she is rude.  She invited herself to a family only wedding then seems angry you aren't letting her bring a date, which you have a perfectly valid reason for.  I would almost bet money on the fact she will show..with a date.

I really, really, really hope this does not happen. I will be the "female dog" that turns them both away, and I will not appreciate being put in the role of bad guy on my wedding day.

I'm glad to see that the consensus is to just act as if she is still coming, alone, though. My preference was to just act like the conversation never happened, but I wasn't sure if that would be passive aggressive.

I think it's not, "this conversation never happened," but more like, "the conversation happened, and nothing has changed." If you feel nervous about it now, you could try checking in with her again, something that assumes she's coming, like, "So, have you booked your room at Hotel?" or "What are you doing for dinner the night before?" Very casual, as you might ask anyone. And she what she says.

I think that technically, it is rude that she asked for an invitation in the first place, but I read it as being more a silly thing she said without thinking because she was so excited for you. I got the impression you're pretty close to her and it seems like you went to some trouble to find a way to include her, after initially declining--it's not like you "caved" and invited her only because she invited herself, right?

For the plus-one, I assume she doesn't have a partner you know about, right? Maybe she was worried that she wouldn't know anyone else there and wouldn't have anyone to talk to. You could try chatting with her just to chat, asking her how she's been, if there's anything new in her life... ::cough:: new SO ::cough:: It just seems like you're getting a negative vibe from her over this conversation, and that's too bad; it would be a shame for you to worry about it from now until the wedding, so maybe get in touch with her soon "just because" and take her temperature overall, you know? If she was her normal, happy self then you would probably stop worrying about it. :)

Julie is local, so it isn't a question of her intention of being in town, only of coming to the wedding.

If Julie is in a relationship, it's something that has happened in the last couple months. And short of an engagement or cohabiting, I would not agree to a family member bringing a plus-one either. Our guest list is under 20 people, the only people invited that aren't related to DF or me by blood are my SIL (so, related by marriage), and Julie.

I did think about Julie not knowing anyone, and momentarily wavered on the plus-one because of it. Except, (a) I made it clear from the beginning that this was family-only, and she doesn't know any of our other friends that we would have invited to a bigger wedding anyhow, so if not knowing anyone was going to be a problem, she ought to have declined, and (b) DF's only family is his divorced parents, so they're not going to know anyone (except us, and each other, but they aren't exactly pals) either, and neither of them asked to bring a plus one.

I'm okay with Julie "asking" for an invitation for herself, because it was something said out of excitement. I truly don't think it was meant to be fishing, and we invited her because I had been wanting to anyhow, not because we felt guilted or pressured to do it. By the same token, I'm not going to be guilted or pressured into a plus one. If she does show up with a guest though, I think I will have to handle it myself. With the possible exception of my mother, there really isn't anyone in our family that I think is up to the confrontation.

Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Isometric on July 30, 2013, 08:37:08 PM
Julie is being a little rude and selfish. I would never invite myself to a function, let alone a wedding! And then to ask to bring a date, when she knows it's family only! Very cheeky. I would check with her again if she's coming, maybe under the guise of checking dietary requirements, or if she needs directions etc.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: FauxFoodist on July 31, 2013, 01:05:40 AM
My thinking is if she's close enough to invite to such an intimate, family-only affair, she's close enough to be upfront with about her plus-one request (that she is clear she's not to bring anyone).  I'm on board with moving forward as if she will be attending, but I know I wouldn't want to be put in the possible position of being irritated by something preventable on my wedding day (I made sure those possible scenarios I could predict were circumvented).  I'd be inclined to come right out and ask her, "Are you still attending, even though you may not bring a guest?" (because it would a) confirm her attendance/non-attendance and b) make it clear she is not to bring a guest).
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: lowspark on July 31, 2013, 09:04:34 AM
The more I think about this, the more I lean toward what SoCalVal beat me to saying.

She is a good enough friend that she is the only friend you are inviting to your family only wedding. So you should be able to pick up the phone and just confirm she's coming.

If it were me, I'd just call and say something like this:
"Friend, I'm finalizing all my plans for the wedding and I just wanted to confirm, after our conversation the other day, that you are coming, I'm sorry you can't bring a date, but I know that you are a good enough friend to understand that."

I just think that if either:
-- the friendship can't withstand a frank conversation...
or
-- this friend would actually bring a date after being told "no"...
or
-- this friend would be so petty as to not attend simply because she was not allowed to bring a date...
then I'm not sure that she's really a good enough friend to be invited in the first place.

I'm just imagining my friend, who if I were in your place, I would want to invite to a family only wedding. She's like family to me which is why it would make sense to invite her. And none of the three things I listed above apply. I could easily just pick up the phone and lay it on the line with her. She wouldn't bring a date after I'd said no and she would absolutely not miss my wedding for a petty thing like that.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Lynn2000 on July 31, 2013, 09:15:39 AM
POD to lowspark. Better to check with Julie again, even if you have to make up a reason, and set your mind at ease, than worry about her doing something rude all the way until your wedding day.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Magnet on July 31, 2013, 11:18:01 AM
I had someone invite a plus one to my wedding.  I rolled with it.  One more person didn't make a big difference, and I actually enjoyed spending time with the unexpected plus one.

Obviously, everyone is different.  But this wedding sounds like its an outdoor early morning wedding.  At most, there is a brunch type meal afterwards.  If you can swing another guest, and Julie is important to you, I would let the plus one come.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: BarensMom on July 31, 2013, 11:29:17 AM
There are space limitations.  Julie's plus one would put the venue over the legal occupancy limit.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: norrina on August 07, 2013, 06:57:32 PM
There are space limitations.  Julie's plus one would put the venue over the legal occupancy limit.

Sorry, somehow I didn't realize that there had been new posts in this thread that I hadn't read/responded to. But BarensMom correctly answered for me, that Julie's plus one would put us in breach of our contract with the rental agency, with potentially expensive and highly inconvenient consequences. Also, for us a plus one would make a big difference, regardless of occupancy limits, because of the nature of our wedding, immediate family (parents, grandparents, and siblings and their spouses and children) only, plus Julie. On the one hand, I can appreciate that it may be uncomfortable for Julie to be the only non-family-member there. On the other hand, it would be very uncomfortable for us to have a complete stranger at such a small (12 guests, including Julie), intimate affair.

As a non-update, I noticed that Julie was online a bit ago, so I sent her a brief message light heartedly saying that putting a potentially misplaced trust in the weatherman, we were proceeding with our plans for a sunrise ceremony, that everyone would meet at Location A at [dark-oh-thirty a.m.] for the nuptials, and that we hoped she could still make it. Julie read the message, but has not replied.

My pattern with Julie (and all of my friends) is radio silence for weeks or even months at a time, then catch back up like no time has passed, then fall out of contact for a period of time again. So the fact that we haven't chatted in the last 9 days since the conversation about the plus-one doesn't mean anything, but I suspect that the lack of response now may mean that we're not okay.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: PastryGoddess on August 07, 2013, 07:59:57 PM
There are space limitations.  Julie's plus one would put the venue over the legal occupancy limit.

Sorry, somehow I didn't realize that there had been new posts in this thread that I hadn't read/responded to. But BarensMom correctly answered for me, that Julie's plus one would put us in breach of our contract with the rental agency, with potentially expensive and highly inconvenient consequences. Also, for us a plus one would make a big difference, regardless of occupancy limits, because of the nature of our wedding, immediate family (parents, grandparents, and siblings and their spouses and children) only, plus Julie. On the one hand, I can appreciate that it may be uncomfortable for Julie to be the only non-family-member there. On the other hand, it would be very uncomfortable for us to have a complete stranger at such a small (12 guests, including Julie), intimate affair.

As a non-update, I noticed that Julie was online a bit ago, so I sent her a brief message light heartedly saying that putting a potentially misplaced trust in the weatherman, we were proceeding with our plans for a sunrise ceremony, that everyone would meet at Location A at [dark-oh-thirty a.m.] for the nuptials, and that we hoped she could still make it. Julie read the message, but has not replied.

My pattern with Julie (and all of my friends) is radio silence for weeks or even months at a time, then catch back up like no time has passed, then fall out of contact for a period of time again. So the fact that we haven't chatted in the last 9 days since the conversation about the plus-one doesn't mean anything, but I suspect that the lack of response now may mean that we're not okay.

Are YOU okay with that or do you feel like you need to make amends for this situation?
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: Lynn2000 on August 07, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
OP, since you are right at the legal occupancy limit, I think it would be alright to double-check with every guest that they will be there or not as you get closer to the date. Perhaps you could phrase it as a "headcount" like for chairs or space or catering or photo album favors--there's something off-putting about "we won't have enough room for anyone else," even if it's true, but perhaps you could give the impression of, "we want to make sure we have enough of X for everyone," with X being discrete units, one per person.

In other words, ask Julie a question that requires a clear answer--0, 1, or 2 (problem!)--to which a lie would be an obvious inconvenience for you (as well as being a lie).

Or discuss seating arrangements with her--"The second row will be Melvin, Matilda, you, Cindy, and Charlie. I think five chairs will fit really well in the space, and we can stagger the first and third rows so everyone can see." That's a little more indirect since you aren't asking her a question, but it clearly assumes she will be there and that she won't bring anyone else, so if either of those isn't true and she doesn't tell you, that would be bad on her part.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: *inviteseller on August 07, 2013, 08:46:20 PM
If she is not ok with being told no, then she is not a friend.  She asked to come to your wedding then invited a guest ..it is your wedding and you are the only one who says yes or no on the guest list.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: norrina on August 07, 2013, 11:49:22 PM
I hope that either I'm misreading Julie's silence and this ends up being a non-issue, or it blows over in time, but even if it turns out she is upset and stays upset, I don't particularly feel the need to "make amends". It is my and my DF's party, and we get to choose the guest list. I shouldn't have to apologize for or feel guilty about that.

Julie is the only guest that there is any question about regarding attendance, so there would be no need to "double-check" with anyone else. Among our family there has been frequent, open communication. 7 of our 12 guests are flying, and have forwarded their flight itineraries with passenger manifests, 2 of the 4 driving guests were in contact just last night, and while I haven't spoken to the remaining 2 drivers for about 2 weeks, we discussed their plans when last we talked and I am confident nothing changed.

Also, so long as we don't go over occupancy, the exact head count really doesn't matter. We're not having a seated ceremony, we're catering everything ourself and the number of servings are far from an exact science, and we have enough of everything that were putting in our favor bags that I'll just make one for Julie too in case she does make it.

I could push Julie for a definite response as to her intentions, but right now it just doesn't seem worth putting any more energy into worrying about, particularly if she doesn't seem to care to talk right now. In short, I'm letting go of the drama of will she show or won't she, because the answer has no bearing on last minute preparations, and right now I'm more concerned about last minute preparations. (It turns out that figuring out a shopping list for a full day of menus for 15 people is a lot more complicated than it sounds. And it sounds fairly complicated.) If Julie chooses not to come, I will miss her, but it is not going to devastate me, or ruin our special day. If Julie chooses to bring a plus-one after her request to do so being declined, I will be disappointed that our right to choose our guest list was disrespected, and I'm not going to let that ruin our special day either.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: Eeep! on August 08, 2013, 12:01:48 AM
If she is not OK with being told no, then she is not a friend.  She asked to come to your wedding then invited a guest ..it is your wedding and you are the only one who says yes or no on the guest list.

I kind of agree with this. I actually am pretty shocked that anyone would think that asking to bring a guest to a 12 person wedding is OK. Especially knowing they have been given a real privilege being the only non-family member. If she is actually upset about being told no then she is a LOT more self-involved than I would want a friend to be. (And in cutting her slack on the inviting herself as I could see someone saying that not realizing it was such a small event. Just out of excitement for a dear friend.)
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: Eeep! on August 08, 2013, 12:02:54 AM
Oh and I meant to say that I'm glad you have chosen not to stress about this! Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials!!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: norrina on August 08, 2013, 12:19:50 AM
Thanks Eeep!

I will be surprised if our friendship suffers long-term over this, Julie has a big heart. Sometimes friendships just run their course though. Especially in friendships like mine, where there can be long periods of time between contact, it can be easy to just drift apart, even if you were once close. If there is any fallout over this, I suspect that that is how it will happen, just a natural drifting apart/fading away.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: PastryGoddess on August 08, 2013, 12:20:04 AM
Go Norrina!  That shiny spine is looking good
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: secretrebel on August 08, 2013, 06:24:48 AM
I'd send Julie one last email saying

"Julie, I hope you've received my emails about the wedding ceremony. Because it's so small I need to know exact numbers so if I don't hear back from you by X date I'll assume you won't be able to attend and won't expect you."
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: Twik on August 08, 2013, 08:43:46 AM
I had someone invite a plus one to my wedding.  I rolled with it.  One more person didn't make a big difference, and I actually enjoyed spending time with the unexpected plus one.

Obviously, everyone is different.  But this wedding sounds like its an outdoor early morning wedding.  At most, there is a brunch type meal afterwards.  If you can swing another guest, and Julie is important to you, I would let the plus one come.

Beyond the issue of space, this is a very small wedding. This would turn it into "my immediate family, my very close friend Julia, and some random guy."

If the OP had to tell any of her single relatives not to bring a guest, I can imagine the hurt caused by "rolling" with a plus-one for a friend.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue)
Post by: norrina on August 08, 2013, 09:12:32 AM
I had someone invite a plus one to my wedding.  I rolled with it.  One more person didn't make a big difference, and I actually enjoyed spending time with the unexpected plus one.

Obviously, everyone is different.  But this wedding sounds like its an outdoor early morning wedding.  At most, there is a brunch type meal afterwards.  If you can swing another guest, and Julie is important to you, I would let the plus one come.

Beyond the issue of space, this is a very small wedding. This would turn it into "my immediate family, my very close friend Julia, and some random guy."

If the OP had to tell any of her single relatives not to bring a guest, I can imagine the hurt caused by "rolling" with a plus-one for a friend.

Thank you Twik. You are spot on, and I had wanted to explain this reasoning to the forum, but wasn't able to do so nearly as succinctly and finally decided to just leave it at the space issue.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: norrina on August 19, 2013, 10:00:52 PM
I hate it when an OP disappears without giving a final update, so if anyone was wondering the outcome, Julie was a no-show. It was hectic enough trying to get everyone out the door at 6:30 a.m. that I didn't have the time or energy to dwell on it, and we proceeded to have a fabulous day.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: Marbles on August 19, 2013, 10:37:00 PM
I'm sorry your friend didn't come, but it sounds like your day was wonderful. Congratulations, Norrina!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: GrammarNerd on August 19, 2013, 10:50:50 PM
So she ASKED for an invitation to your FAMILY-ONLY wedding, and then proceeded not to show, and not to call?

WOW.   :o

But I'm glad you had a wonderful day.  And Congratulations!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20)
Post by: something.new.every.day on August 19, 2013, 11:06:19 PM
I hate it when an OP disappears without giving a final update, so if anyone was wondering the outcome, Julie was a no-show. It was hectic enough trying to get everyone out the door at 6:30 a.m. that I didn't have the time or energy to dwell on it, and we proceeded to have a fabulous day.

First off--THANK YOU--I love it when people come back to update. And congratulations on your wedding.

I'm astounded she did not show up, but you have a good attitude about the whole thing.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: ------ on August 19, 2013, 11:06:37 PM
Sounds like Julie might have crossed over into the non-friend territory.

Congratulations, Norrina! I wish you every happiness!

And, I would like to point out, you are a lot more forgiving than I would be! Of course you don't want to let it ruin your day, and I'm certainly glad it didn't, but I wouldn't be inviting Julie to anything any time soon!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: Nemesis on August 19, 2013, 11:39:35 PM
Congratulations!!!

I'm sorry about your "friend". I sure hope that you will consider her friendship in new light after this.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: *inviteseller on August 20, 2013, 07:24:06 AM
Congratulations on your wedding!  It is a horrible thing that your friend pulled, asking for the invite and asking to bring someone then pulling a no call no show, but it is the lesser of the two evils I guess.  At least she didn't show with the guest!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: norrina on August 20, 2013, 07:31:13 AM
To those who have said I am more forgiving than they, and/or wondering how this will impact the friendship with Julie, I'm letting it go. By which I mean, I'm not trying to follow up, or mend fences, or try to get back to the friendship I thought we had. Life is too short to dwell on the past, so I'm focusing on my new family, and all my other rich, wonderful friendships and relationships, and putting this one behind me. If Julie gets in touch with me I can be cordial, but I'm not reaching out to get together anymore.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: lowspark on August 20, 2013, 08:24:05 AM
Ugh. I can't believe she didn't show. That just completely shows her true colors.
Let's see. Invite myself to a family only wedding. Then assume I can also bring a date that the HC doesn't even know. Then cut off communications when the bride says no to the date. Then not show up at all to the event.
Yeah. Ummmm..... I can't see much of a friendship continuing after this.

Definitely kudos to you, norrina, for handling all of this so graciously.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: norrina on August 20, 2013, 08:45:38 AM
... Definitely kudos to you, norrina, for handling all of this so graciously.

Well, to be honest, I'd really like to tell her exactly what I think of her shenanigans, but I don't see anything to actually be gained by that, so I'm trying to stay zen. It helps that exactly one week before the big day the head of a networking group that I joined about a month ago found out about my upcoming nuptials, and not only was very insistent that he wanted me to let him help somehow, but rallied a bunch of other people I've known less than a month to try and help too. While someone I have considered a close friend for over 6 years was blowing me off because I wouldn't allow her to bring a plus-one to my wedding, someone I've known for barely a month spent over an hour at Costco so that I could buy the groceries for my self-catered wedding under his membership, and arranged for my car detailer to give me a steep discount on my detailing. That kind of puts things in perspective...
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: Lynn2000 on August 20, 2013, 09:10:43 AM
OP, thanks for updating. You seem to have a good attitude about the situation--keep focusing on the positive things in your life!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: JenJay on August 20, 2013, 09:16:36 AM
Congrats on the marriage and finding the new group - they sound like fantastic people!!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: lowspark on August 20, 2013, 10:50:22 AM
... Definitely kudos to you, norrina, for handling all of this so graciously.

Well, to be honest, I'd really like to tell her exactly what I think of her shenanigans, but I don't see anything to actually be gained by that, so I'm trying to stay zen. It helps that exactly one week before the big day the head of a networking group that I joined about a month ago found out about my upcoming nuptials, and not only was very insistent that he wanted me to let him help somehow, but rallied a bunch of other people I've known less than a month to try and help too. While someone I have considered a close friend for over 6 years was blowing me off because I wouldn't allow her to bring a plus-one to my wedding, someone I've known for barely a month spent over an hour at Costco so that I could buy the groceries for my self-catered wedding under his membership, and arranged for my car detailer to give me a steep discount on my detailing. That kind of puts things in perspective...

Oh yeah. No kidding (to the bolded). It's not so much what we want to say. Obviously you're having those thoughts. Who wouldn't!! But exercising the restraint -- that's the hard part.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: earthgirl on August 20, 2013, 10:53:58 AM
... Definitely kudos to you, norrina, for handling all of this so graciously.

Well, to be honest, I'd really like to tell her exactly what I think of her shenanigans, but I don't see anything to actually be gained by that, so I'm trying to stay zen. It helps that exactly one week before the big day the head of a networking group that I joined about a month ago found out about my upcoming nuptials, and not only was very insistent that he wanted me to let him help somehow, but rallied a bunch of other people I've known less than a month to try and help too. While someone I have considered a close friend for over 6 years was blowing me off because I wouldn't allow her to bring a plus-one to my wedding, someone I've known for barely a month spent over an hour at Costco so that I could buy the groceries for my self-catered wedding under his membership, and arranged for my car detailer to give me a steep discount on my detailing. That kind of puts things in perspective...

Sounds like the networking group was are of just who the wedding was about, when Julie wasn't.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: norrina on April 04, 2014, 04:41:25 PM
Bumping this old thread because Julie has just resurfaced, though not in a particularly meaningful way. After this all went down I " unfollowed" Julie on Facebook, so that her statuses weren't showing up in my newsfeed, but never actually unfriended her. 7 1/2 months have passed with no contact. This afternoon I posted a status regarding a bit of an ego boost I got with something that happened at work, and up pops Julie, commenting of my status.  :o

I have to admit, I'm not really sure where to go from here. The comment doesn't really need a response, and I don't know if I want to (or should) respond or not.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: ladyknight1 on April 04, 2014, 04:57:20 PM
That is odd.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (non-update post20, final post32)
Post by: bloo on April 04, 2014, 05:15:33 PM
Bumping this old thread because Julie has just resurfaced, though not in a particularly meaningful way. After this all went down I " unfollowed" Julie on Facebook, so that her statuses weren't showing up in my newsfeed, but never actually unfriended her. 7 1/2 months have passed with no contact. This afternoon I posted a status regarding a bit of an ego boost I got with something that happened at work, and up pops Julie, commenting of my status.  :o

I have to admit, I'm not really sure where to go from here. The comment doesn't really need a response, and I don't know if I want to (or should) respond or not.

Weird.

It's not like enough time has passed that if a dialogue is to be opened, you're not going to mention, "so what happened with the wedding?" to her.

If you're ready to have that conversation, then I'd respond to her post. A conversation may evolve from that. If you really don't care to open up that can of worms, you can cheerfully ignore her post. She's clearly feeling you out and taking a temperature of you by posting on your FB.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: Roe on April 04, 2014, 08:49:22 PM
I'd ignore her.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: lowspark on April 07, 2014, 07:38:18 AM
I would absolutely ignore her. In my experience, no good will come out of reestablishing contact with her. If she had any intention of admitting that she did anything wrong with regard to your wedding, that's what she'd do. Posting a totally unrelated comment is her way of throwing in a hook to see if you'll bite. Don't do it.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: Winterlight on April 07, 2014, 09:32:05 AM
I would ignore and consider defriending.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: blarg314 on April 07, 2014, 06:15:05 PM

Quite possibly enough time has passed that she's forgiven your behaviour, and is willing to admit you back into friendship.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: Eeep! on April 07, 2014, 06:31:52 PM

Quite possibly enough time has passed that she's forgiven your behaviour, and is willing to admit you back into friendship.

[snerk]
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: ladyknight1 on April 07, 2014, 07:31:28 PM
You were on friend probation and you didn't know it!
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: mlogica on April 07, 2014, 09:33:30 PM
It's possible that I'm way off base here, and I haven't gone back to re-read this thread in detail, but I'm kind of wondering if Julia thought she was doing the right thing by not showing up for the wedding?

I say this based on the following thoughts:  the OP said (IIRC) that she and Julia were close, but could go long periods of time without communicating.  Julia maybe spoke without thinking when she said that she wanted to be at the wedding, but the OP did invite her, which was a very nice gesture.  Maybe Julia didn't realize just how small the wedding was, and so when she asked to bring a guest, didn't realize that it wasn't a trivial question.  And maybe at that point it all clicked, that the wedding was very small, that it was family only, and that she was never actually on the original guest list.  So maybe at that point, or a little later, Julia decided that it would be better to simply not attend?

Obviously, if that was the case, she should have communicated this to the OP, given some explanation, etc.  Unfortunately, we've seen often enough on this board that many people don't observe these social niceties.  Particularly if they're the least bit awkward.

Not that I'm trying to defend Julia, per se.  Just wondering about alternative explanations for her failure to attend.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: Eeep! on April 08, 2014, 11:29:03 AM
It's possible that I'm way off base here, and I haven't gone back to re-read this thread in detail, but I'm kind of wondering if Julia thought she was doing the right thing by not showing up for the wedding?

I say this based on the following thoughts:  the OP said (IIRC) that she and Julia were close, but could go long periods of time without communicating.  Julia maybe spoke without thinking when she said that she wanted to be at the wedding, but the OP did invite her, which was a very nice gesture.  Maybe Julia didn't realize just how small the wedding was, and so when she asked to bring a guest, didn't realize that it wasn't a trivial question.  And maybe at that point it all clicked, that the wedding was very small, that it was family only, and that she was never actually on the original guest list.  So maybe at that point, or a little later, Julia decided that it would be better to simply not attend?

Obviously, if that was the case, she should have communicated this to the OP, given some explanation, etc.  Unfortunately, we've seen often enough on this board that many people don't observe these social niceties.  Particularly if they're the least bit awkward.

Not that I'm trying to defend Julia, per se.  Just wondering about alternative explanations for her failure to attend.

But that wouldn't explain her not ever contacting the OP again until now.  If indeed she thought she was being nice, don't you think she would have said Congratulations! or How was the wedding? Or anything. To just not say anything after your supposed dear friend's wedding is really really odd.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: mlogica on April 08, 2014, 12:45:34 PM
It's possible that I'm way off base here, and I haven't gone back to re-read this thread in detail, but I'm kind of wondering if Julia thought she was doing the right thing by not showing up for the wedding?

I say this based on the following thoughts:  the OP said (IIRC) that she and Julia were close, but could go long periods of time without communicating.  Julia maybe spoke without thinking when she said that she wanted to be at the wedding, but the OP did invite her, which was a very nice gesture.  Maybe Julia didn't realize just how small the wedding was, and so when she asked to bring a guest, didn't realize that it wasn't a trivial question.  And maybe at that point it all clicked, that the wedding was very small, that it was family only, and that she was never actually on the original guest list.  So maybe at that point, or a little later, Julia decided that it would be better to simply not attend?

Obviously, if that was the case, she should have communicated this to the OP, given some explanation, etc.  Unfortunately, we've seen often enough on this board that many people don't observe these social niceties.  Particularly if they're the least bit awkward.

Not that I'm trying to defend Julia, per se.  Just wondering about alternative explanations for her failure to attend.

But that wouldn't explain her not ever contacting the OP again until now.  If indeed she thought she was being nice, don't you think she would have said Congratulations! or How was the wedding? Or anything. To just not say anything after your supposed dear friend's wedding is really really odd.

Oh, quite possibly I am completely down the wrong path; not knowing either the OP or Julia, it's simply pure speculation on my part as to what Julia may have been thinking/feeling.  If she and the OP don't communicate that often, she may honestly have meant to call/send a card of congratulations, and just never got around to it.  Unless the OP and Julia have a heart-to-heart, and the OP reports back, we'll never really know.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: norrina on April 20, 2014, 07:20:23 PM
OP here again: A day or two after commenting on my FB status, Julia inboxed me to ask if I could help her with something in my professional capacity. If it was something I could have actually helped with there was the potential for payment, so it wasn't a free favor, but still, I think I've figured out why she resurfaced when she did.  ::) 

Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: ladyknight1 on April 20, 2014, 07:32:10 PM
Only a friend when she needs a favor.  ::)
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: Roe on April 20, 2014, 07:45:59 PM
I hope you ignored her and her request.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: norrina on April 20, 2014, 07:55:18 PM
I hope you ignored her and her request.

Since she contacted me as a potential client, I responded in kind. Asked for the information I needed to establish if I would be able to take her request, determined that she was missing a relevant piece of information, told her to research that and let me know if the answer was X (which would mean I might be able to take her request) or Y (which would mean indefinitely couldn't help), and haven't heard back since. I suspect the answer was Y.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: FauxFoodist on April 21, 2014, 01:14:55 PM
I hope you ignored her and her request.

Since she contacted me as a potential client, I responded in kind. Asked for the information I needed to establish if I would be able to take her request, determined that she was missing a relevant piece of information, told her to research that and let me know if the answer was X (which would mean I might be able to take her request) or Y (which would mean indefinitely couldn't help), and haven't heard back since. I suspect the answer was Y.

So, basically, she couldn't be bothered to put closure on her request and just say something like, "Turns out the answer is Y so you wouldn't be able to help after all.  Thank you for considering it, though!"  I'd be inclined to not respond at all should she be in contact again.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: sammycat on April 21, 2014, 07:48:55 PM
So, basically, she couldn't be bothered to put closure on her request and just say something like, "Turns out the answer is Y so you wouldn't be able to help after all.  Thank you for considering it, though!" I'd be inclined to not respond at all should she be in contact again.

Ditto.
Title: Re: What now? ("plus one" issue) (nonupdate post20, final post32, odd update post46)
Post by: norrina on April 21, 2014, 09:21:48 PM
I hope you ignored her and her request.

Since she contacted me as a potential client, I responded in kind. Asked for the information I needed to establish if I would be able to take her request, determined that she was missing a relevant piece of information, told her to research that and let me know if the answer was X (which would mean I might be able to take her request) or Y (which would mean indefinitely couldn't help), and haven't heard back since. I suspect the answer was Y.


So, basically, she couldn't be bothered to put closure on her request and just say something like, "Turns out the answer is Y so you wouldn't be able to help after all.  Thank you for considering it, though!"  I'd be inclined to not respond at all should she be in contact again.

Yeah, I'm definitely noticing a pattern here when Julia gets an answer she doesn't like.  ::)