Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => All In A Day's Work => Topic started by: Morty'sCleaningLady on August 30, 2013, 08:07:49 AM

Title: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on August 30, 2013, 08:07:49 AM
Person interviewing me was wearing a t-shirt, jeans, sneakers and a ball cap.  No, I wasn't interviewing at a fast food location, where hats would be uniform.  No, I wasn't interviewing at a sports center (gift shop, grounds crew, Major League Baseball shortstop).  No, I wasn't interviewing for a role in the trades (construction, plumbing, HVAC) or day labor (lawn maintenance, moving).  I was interviewing for a management job at in Information Technology at a major healthcare corporation.

Jeans aren't that uncommon in IT, but I was offended by the baseball cap. 

My recruiter and I were both a little surprised to learn that the role wasn't for a day shift, so I turned down the position, but the hat has been continuing to annoy me.  The man was probably around 35 and really should have known better.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: SCMagnolia on August 30, 2013, 08:18:02 AM
That would seem a bit odd to me, too.  Baseball caps aren't really the norm in an office setting.

Even if it's casual Friday or cleaning-out-the-office Wednesday, if someone is conducting an interview, they need to realize they are representing their company.  You can read a lot about a company from the interview and the interviewer, and if someone so lax in their professional appearance would interview me, one of my first impressions about the company would that they were very laid back and maybe even unprofessional.  Depending on the industry, that can be a very difficult environment in which to work.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Sharnita on August 30, 2013, 08:23:34 AM
I would fimd it odd too but in most cases the interviewer holds the cards so getting offended would not be very productive. You could decide it wasn't the environ,ent for you or you could decide you need the job and in the grand scheme of things it is no big deal.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: rose red on August 30, 2013, 08:36:12 AM
Different strokes for different folks.  As long as he acts professional, knowledgeable, and respectful, I welcome an interviewer in casual dress.  I'm terrible at interviews and I think that situation would relax me.  I, for one, get a lot of work done when I dress down.

But if you are offended, at least you know that's not the place for you.  He wouldn't have to "know better" for someone like me because I would love it ;D.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Lynnv on August 30, 2013, 08:49:51 AM
It wouldn't be normal in any interview I have been in, but I can't see how it is offensive or rude.  It is probably a good indicator, since you were put off by it, that it would not be the right fit for you.  Since determining fit is part of what an interview is about, it seems like a good thing to me.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Twik on August 30, 2013, 11:05:45 AM
If you have any interest at all in traditional etiquette, men do not wear non-religious or non-job-related headgear inside.

Unless he had a religious reason to wear a baseball cap, or he suddenly expected to be beaned with a fly ball, he was being very rude.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: SlitherHiss on August 30, 2013, 11:33:49 AM
Eh. Maybe it was part of corporate culture at that particular office. Or, like an old boss of mine, he might have had something done to his scalp (It was laser treatment to remove some pre-cancerous splotches, in his case) and thought exposing the area or showing off his bandage would be rude. My boss spent a week wearing a hat to work, and it was no big deal.

I totally get being put off by it, especially in an interview situation, but I don't think we can quite call it "rude" without more information.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cat-Fu on August 30, 2013, 11:40:10 AM
IDK, I work in software and super casual is pretty common, including baseball caps/flip flops/jeans. It is considered a perk, like free snacks/drinks and flex time. I don't see it as rude to take advantage of an offered perk.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Twik on August 30, 2013, 11:50:58 AM
Well, if we consider "rude" to be "completely against traditional etiquette," it's rude.

It's not rude in the "intentionally showing disrespect" aspect, but it's like eating your peas off your knife at a formal dinner.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: White Lotus on August 30, 2013, 11:53:17 AM
Twik is right.  Unless it is religious or job-related, polite men do not wear hats indoors.  This smacks of costume (he thinks it makes him fit some image he has) and to me indicates an insecure guy who is probably also losing his hair.  Personally, unless actually job related, or maybe in some outdoor sports, I hate baseball caps on men even more than I hate them on women.  Ugly!  Unflattering!  But then, like most women, I don't mind balding or bald.  Minding it, in my circles, at least, seems more like a guy thing.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Twik on August 30, 2013, 12:02:50 PM
I remember reading a story about a wounded veteran in WWII. He was finally well enough to leave the hospital for short periods, and asked one of the nurses out to dinner.

His injuries included a horrible wound to the back of his head. He'd lost most of his hair, and scar tissue was still red and raw-looking, so he wore his hat to conceal it at the restaurant.

Finally, the nurse asked him why he didn't take his hat off, and he explained he thought she'd not want to be seen in public with someone with such horrible scars on his head.

She replied, "I'm honoured to be seen in public with a soldier, whatever his wounds. But I'll be darned if I'll be seen in public with a man who doesn't know enough to take off his hat indoors."

He removed his hat, and found that he never really worried about the scars afterwards.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Library Dragon on August 30, 2013, 12:24:27 PM
Eh. Maybe it was part of corporate culture at that particular office. Or, like an old boss of mine, he might have had something done to his scalp (It was laser treatment to remove some pre-cancerous splotches, in his case) and thought exposing the area or showing off his bandage would be rude. My boss spent a week wearing a hat to work, and it was no big deal.

I totally get being put off by it, especially in an interview situation, but I don't think we can quite call it "rude" without more information.

POD

I too REALLY dislike baseball hats indoors.  Without knowing the why I wouldn't jump to calling it "rude." 

The reality is, if the interviewer wants to wear a speedo to conduct the interview he can.  I would consider it inappropriate work wear and rude in an office setting.  As long as its not illegal he holds the cards in the interview process.  I have the choice to accept or not accept a job offer at that company.  Company culture is part of the decision making process. 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cat-Fu on August 30, 2013, 12:26:15 PM
Twik is right.  Unless it is religious or job-related, polite men do not wear hats indoors.  This smacks of costume (he thinks it makes him fit some image he has) and to me indicates an insecure guy who is probably also losing his hair.  Personally, unless actually job related, or maybe in some outdoor sports, I hate baseball caps on men even more than I hate them on women.  Ugly!  Unflattering!  But then, like most women, I don't mind balding or bald.  Minding it, in my circles, at least, seems more like a guy thing.

Actually, you are allowed to wear a hat indoors for certain buildings—malls, public buildings, etc.

Some people just like hats. I don't think it's about insecurity or some sort of costume. (For the record, I hate wearing hats :P)
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: SlitherHiss on August 30, 2013, 12:31:14 PM
Twik is right.  Unless it is religious or job-related, polite men do not wear hats indoors.  This smacks of costume (he thinks it makes him fit some image he has) and to me indicates an insecure guy who is probably also losing his hair.  Personally, unless actually job related, or maybe in some outdoor sports, I hate baseball caps on men even more than I hate them on women.  Ugly!  Unflattering!  But then, like most women, I don't mind balding or bald.  Minding it, in my circles, at least, seems more like a guy thing.

Actually, you are allowed to wear a hat indoors for certain buildings—malls, public buildings, etc.

More to the point, etiquette changes with time. Corporate Culture (as a whole) is far different than it was even 10-15 years ago. Corporate Dress Standards are also highly variable I've got a relative who works for a mega software corporation. It is totally and completely accepted for people to dress in jeans and fun t-shirts or Hawaiian shirts on a daily basis, and for men and women to wear hats.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: kitchcat on August 30, 2013, 12:34:55 PM
I wouldn't jump to conclusions right away. When I interviewed for my job I was surprised because my now-boss was wearing jeans and a Hawaiian shirt like it was a beach party! Turns out it was a themed casual Friday. You can't always tell from one meeting.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on August 30, 2013, 01:51:01 PM
OP here -- it was an IT job in a healthcare company.  I was expecting corporate casual, which I don't consider t-shirts with your favorite sports team (who was not even playing that day) or a ball cap anything other than casual.  They were interviewing the final 4 people and I was the last.  By the time they got to me, they were running over an hour late. So, it's not like Captain Cap was running in late from an offsite meeting that would get him grundgy (as IT jobs can do). The other interviewers (in the same room) were in corporate casual (khakis and button downs).  Others in the building were in traditional corporate casual.  Patients in the lobby were better dressed than Captain Cap and I saw at least two lab coated individuals in ties.

I was offered the position today, but I opted to turn it down.  (It wasn't just the cap.  There was a discrepancy in the job description (amount of travel and weekend work) that really caused me concern.)  I just found the cap to be inappropriate in a corporate environment and I always was taught that it was rude for a man to leave his hat on while indoors, especially when a lady (me and another interviewer) was present.

Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: MrTango on August 30, 2013, 02:01:39 PM
When I interviewed at Evil Insurance Company, I remember that the Admin who welcomed me and brought me to the interview room was dressed rather nicely (slacks, nice sweater).  After she left, the hiring manager came in.  He was dressed in a slightly ratty t-shirt & jeans with rips in both knees.

I got the job and took it.  Lasted 5 years through 3 big bosses, all of whom had differing ideas as to the level of dress in the office.  Still, at no time did the dress code include torn jeans... ::)

Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Beyond The Veil on August 30, 2013, 02:40:34 PM
I would have been thrilled!  ;D

This would mean that either I get to wear comfortable clothes in the future on the job or that they had a casual day or something similar. Sounds like an awesome deal to me.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: esteban on August 30, 2013, 02:49:13 PM
As a man who wears a baseball hat almost constantly I can't understand the distaste being tossed about towards them.  I have bad hair, not balding, just doesn't really do what I want it to without a ton of gel, and since I hate to do that, if I am not working I will wear a hat as often as possible.

If I worked at a job that allowed them I would very likely wear it during interviews.  I won't remove it just because you are a lady, that would be sexist of me.  You are an applicant like any other.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: shhh its me on August 30, 2013, 03:02:32 PM
  I think a company can included baseball caps are part of its acceptable dress code , so that would void the "it rude for men to wear hats indoors rule".   If the company wants that "we're casual , we're a fun place to work" vibe they can make that choice I don't think it makes them rude.  Especially if it was a company baseball hat.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Lady Snowdon on August 30, 2013, 08:11:41 PM
My company has "sports Friday" where you are allowed to wear a tshirt/jersey/cap for your favorite sports teams.  You're encouraged to wear the accessories of a sport that's currently being played (so football and baseball right now), but it's not required.  I wouldn't be at all offended if my boss or a hiring manager interviewed wearing something along those lines.  My old boss interviewed me wearing a college football tshirt, jeans and sneakers!  My new boss consistently comes to work wearing shoes with holes in them.  I don't think it's a sign of disrespect - more that there are more important things at work to focus on than dress. 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: White Lotus on August 30, 2013, 08:57:11 PM
Deadbody, they are not flattering to anybody I have ever seen them on.  They change the outline of the head and face, and not in a good way.  IMO, of course.  You apparently like the way you look in it.  I haven't met you IRL, so I can't say.  I also can't change the actual etiquette rule and in this forum, where people are very quick to cling to tradition, I am surprised that the no hats inside (with certain specific exceptions) rule is being so lightly tossed aside.  If companies want to issue those hats and make/allow the wearing of them, I guess that is their business.  I still don't like them, i still find them unflattering, and I still prefer the classic rule.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Twik on August 31, 2013, 12:57:35 AM
As a man who wears a baseball hat almost constantly I can't understand the distaste being tossed about towards them.  I have bad hair, not balding, just doesn't really do what I want it to without a ton of gel, and since I hate to do that, if I am not working I will wear a hat as often as possible.

If I worked at a job that allowed them I would very likely wear it during interviews.  I won't remove it just because you are a lady, that would be sexist of me.  You are an applicant like any other.

You're not supposed to just remove it for women. You are supposed to remove it, period, when you are inside.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: #borecore on August 31, 2013, 08:11:18 AM
At my first "real" job, almost all the people in my department wore caps almost all the time (along with shorts, sandals or sneakers, and logo T-shirts). It was practically part of the dress code. What was the job? Sports editing! We were never 'in the field' (those people wore business casual to games or interviews, as did our managers), so there wasn't an excuse. There was one other woman in my department, and she dressed in the same fashion as the majority of the guys (whereas I wore whatever I felt like on a given day, with the exception of shorts or spaghetti straps, which was my self-imposed dress code).
Men in other departments wore caps on occasion, but it wasn't common except if they were balding.

In other words, it wouldn't occur to me to be "offended" by this, though it might be odd depending on the exact work environment.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: FauxFoodist on August 31, 2013, 02:55:52 PM
I might think it odd, but I wouldn't care and wouldn't be offended.  I was once being interviewed by a COO who was wearing a Looney Tunes denim button down shirt.  She apologized for how she was dressed (it was a casual Friday), but I didn't care how she was dressed as she was the boss (I was wearing a suit and heels).  We were in the administrative office of a large multi-site private medical practice.  To me, it matters more what the applicant is wearing (I once had an applicant show up wearing khaki pants, a henley shirt and canvas slip-on shoes; she also thought she was a shoo-in for being hired since she'd had the job years prior so she was also attitudinal towards me...she didn't get the job and, for one, the interviewer didn't care for how she was dressed).
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cami on August 31, 2013, 10:37:14 PM
Unless I were interviewing at Footlocker or some other sport-related or non-professional position, I'd find an interviewer wearing a baseball cap or torn jeans to be a little off-putting.  It just seems to me that even if that's normal work attire, an interview is usually a more formal occasion and better clothes should be worn or at least the darn hat should come off. I also think it's slightly disrespectful to the interviewee who has probably dressed up in acknowledgement of the importance of the occasion. TBH, I'd also probably think that I was wasting my time in this interview because they'd already chosen another candidate if the interviewer couldn't even take off his baseball cap.

On the other side of the table, if someone came to interview for a position with a baseball cap on, I wouldn't even bother to start the interview because I'm not going to hire that person.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: delabela on August 31, 2013, 10:41:33 PM
I can't stand to see a hat indoors - to me, taking the hat off is just one little nod toward civility.  When someone wears one inside, I just feel like they are counting down the time until they get to wander off and do something else.  I don't know that it offends me, but it's certainly something I would be surprised by in an interview. 

This does not apply to hats worn for religious or medical purposes, of course. 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: guihong on August 31, 2013, 11:03:12 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: delabela on September 01, 2013, 12:00:55 AM
Could be, guihong.  Although it seems a fairly subtle way to do that!
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: nayberry on September 01, 2013, 04:55:59 AM
whilst i'd maybe think it odd to be interviewed by someone wearing a baseball cap i'd be far more worried that i was dressed appropriately.

i have a standard interview outfit of smart top, black slacks and if cold out a dogtooth pattern jacket with a scarf,  i can't wear a suit as i have problems with the jackets iykwim ;)
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Roodabega on September 03, 2013, 09:48:12 AM
I wouldn't make any assumptions about why the person was wearing a ball cap.  Men who are going through cancer treatment will frequently wear a ball cap to cover hair loss.  They aren't under any obligation to remove the hat indoors, regardless of who they are meeting.   If it was a woman undergoing treatment and wearing a head covering (scarf or bandana) no one would think anything less of them.

Or the guy in person could be really insecure about their hair and the big bosses have OK'd him wearing the cap.  I still don't see an issue with him wearing it.  It really doesn't have any impact on other people.

Best to give them the benefit of the doubt and let it go.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cami on September 03, 2013, 10:52:24 AM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: shhh its me on September 03, 2013, 12:03:43 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz? 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: SlitherHiss on September 03, 2013, 12:07:41 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?

Jelly Bean Personality Test (http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/tools/tool026.shtml)

Because liking black jelly beans can't just mean I like licorice  ::)
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Jones on September 03, 2013, 01:45:25 PM
I thought the test on jelly beans was whether someone asked if they could have some/offered them back to the interviewer before helping themselves. Stupid, IMO; I wouldn't offer jelly beans to people who obviously already own the jelly beans; but I don't care for jelly beans anyway so I'd just ignore a jar on the table.

In my line of work (loosely oilfield related), most men, even those high up, tend to wear caps at work; generally the cap has a company logo, but not always. They are generally people who started out working outdoors, wearing caps or hard hats all the time, and got into a habit of it. If they are balding they seem more likely to hold to the habit. I have noticed that my current boss tends to take his off around women unless he is headed out the door. I show up in the mornings and he takes off his hat. Nothing I would comment on but I think it's pretty cool of him.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: TootsNYC on September 03, 2013, 09:28:46 PM

Jeans aren't that uncommon in IT, but I was offended by the baseball cap. 


I don't really bother to get "offended" by violations of "bad form / good form" etiquette in the workplace. It's not a social situation, and I guess I think of "offended" as something personal or social.

If someone came to my fancy party in crappy clothes, I'd be offended. They're dissing my hospitality.

But I don't get offended by what a job applicant wears, and certainly not by what the interviewER wears. I regard that as evidence of their knowledge of good or bad form. But it's not a personal statement about or *at* me.

So i might not hire an applicant who dresses inappropriately, but I don't consider it an insult.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: JeanFromBNA on September 04, 2013, 06:34:50 PM
From the OP's description, the interviewer stood out from other employees because of his casual dress, so this was not a company-wide standard.  It makes me wonder what he is trying to telegraph by his atypical attire.  I think that the interviewer should take the interview as seriously as a final round candidate would, and dress appropriately.  It seems disrespectful to do otherwise. 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: squeakers on September 04, 2013, 07:24:37 PM
From the OP's description, the interviewer stood out from other employees because of his casual dress, so this was not a company-wide standard.  It makes me wonder what he is trying to telegraph by his atypical attire.  I think that the interviewer should take the interview as seriously as a final round candidate would, and dress appropriately.  It seems disrespectful to do otherwise.

Maybe he was the boss/owner.. and they can wear what they want.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on September 05, 2013, 08:11:42 AM
From the OP's description, the interviewer stood out from other employees because of his casual dress, so this was not a company-wide standard.  It makes me wonder what he is trying to telegraph by his atypical attire.  I think that the interviewer should take the interview as seriously as a final round candidate would, and dress appropriately.  It seems disrespectful to do otherwise.

Maybe he was the boss/owner.. and they can wear what they want.

Ball Cap was not the boss or the owner.  He was the lowest ranking individual on the panel.  He had worked for the company for 3 years (that's one of the questions I like to ask the interviewers -- you learn a bit about stability.)  Since they were running an hour late with the interviews, I spent plenty of time in the lobby watching people come and go (patients, nurses, doctors, and staff).  No one else had on a ball cap.  It did not appear to be a religious issue, as the had matched his t-shirt, proclaiming his allegiance with a local college.  (I've worked in religious institutions and know that yarmulkes and zucchettis stay on the wearer.)  No one else had on a t-shirt either.

While I, as an interviewee, plan to be attired in a suit (and my recruiter asked what I was wearing to verify formality), I expect to be interviewed by someone dressed within the company's dress code, which, from the interview, I gathered to be business casual.  Ball caps aren't business casual.  I still find it rude and dismissive of him to wear the hat indoors and in my interview.

I googled the official rules, since some here on the Board weren't bothered by the inappropriateness.  Here's the guideline for hats:
http://askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/hat-etiquette

"Hats are removed when inside, except for places that are akin to public streets, like lobbies, corridors, and crowded elevators (non-residential). In a public building (where there are no apartments) the elevator is considered a public area.
You may choose to remove your hat in a public elevator, but in the presence of a lady your hat must be removed."
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: lady_disdain on September 05, 2013, 08:34:30 AM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?

Jelly Bean Personality Test (http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/tools/tool026.shtml)

Because liking black jelly beans can't just mean I like licorice  ::)

Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: artk2002 on September 05, 2013, 03:34:34 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

Your DH was a wise man. I'd never want to work for a company that played games like that. Particularly when they're based on some random pop-psychology idea. The people who do this do so because they are afraid of making real decisions themselves, so they invent spurious tests to make it "objective." Hiring people is horribly subjective and we often get it wrong. That comes with the territory.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: momof2weenies on September 05, 2013, 03:37:51 PM

Ball Cap was not the boss or the owner.  He was the lowest ranking individual on the panel.  He had worked for the company for 3 years (that's one of the questions I like to ask the interviewers -- you learn a bit about stability.)  Since they were running an hour late with the interviews, I spent plenty of time in the lobby watching people come and go (patients, nurses, doctors, and staff).  No one else had on a ball cap.  It did not appear to be a religious issue, as the had matched his t-shirt, proclaiming his allegiance with a local college.  (I've worked in religious institutions and know that yarmulkes and zucchettis stay on the wearer.)  No one else had on a t-shirt either.

This might make me think that he was headed from or going to a college recruiting event.  I could be way off, but if he's not new and none of the other interviewers were giving him funny looks, I would assume this is normal (and accepted) attire for him, at least in certain situations.

Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: artk2002 on September 05, 2013, 03:46:42 PM
Ball Cap was not the boss or the owner.  He was the lowest ranking individual on the panel.  He had worked for the company for 3 years (that's one of the questions I like to ask the interviewers -- you learn a bit about stability.)  Since they were running an hour late with the interviews, I spent plenty of time in the lobby watching people come and go (patients, nurses, doctors, and staff).  No one else had on a ball cap.  It did not appear to be a religious issue, as the had matched his t-shirt, proclaiming his allegiance with a local college. (I've worked in religious institutions and know that yarmulkes and zucchettis stay on the wearer.)  No one else had on a t-shirt either.

For some people, college affiliation is a religious issue -- or so it seems.

In any case, I find the interviewer to be inappropriate. It sounds like he was dressed significantly more poorly than the standard dress for the organization. Even if that's what he wears on a daily basis, I wouldn't want to work with someone who wasn't willing to make a little effort to impress a candidate. Just as I wouldn't want to hire someone who wasn't willing to make an effort to dress appropriately when I interview them. Unless there's some medical issue involved, putting on a collared shirt and taking off a hat don't require a major effort.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: JeanFromBNA on September 06, 2013, 09:03:28 AM
From the OP's description, the interviewer stood out from other employees because of his casual dress, so this was not a company-wide standard.  It makes me wonder what he is trying to telegraph by his atypical attire.  I think that the interviewer should take the interview as seriously as a final round candidate would, and dress appropriately.  It seems disrespectful to do otherwise.

Maybe he was the boss/owner.. and they can wear what they want.
I'm an owner, and I dress appropriately when interviewing candidates, because I want the candidates to know that I take this decision seriously.  I also respect that this is a serious issue for most candidates.

Appropriate attire doesn't necessarily mean a suit. Like Art says, above, putting on a collared shirt and removing a ball cap doesn't require a lot of effort.

Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Jocelyn on September 07, 2013, 11:23:23 AM
I have a cousin who started going bald at 18. As you can imagine, it was rather upsetting to him, and he hasn't been able to be comfortable with his lack of hair, not to mention he is fair-skinned so his head sunburns easily. He teeters back and forth between wearing a baseball cap to hide/protect his head, and taking it off to be good-mannered. I realize that for him, walking around without a hat, even indoors, is about as embarrassing as it is for me to discover that my shirt has hiked up and my pudgy tummy is on public view.  :P I'm just glad that covering one's stomach, or upper arms, is always socially acceptable!  ::)
I also have a friend who had a cancer on the back of his head, and his scalp from the ears back had to be removed. As he says, it's no problem to him, as from the front, he is still the same studly young man he always was.  >:D It's only people who see him from the back who are startled. He tried wearing a toupee, but quit after his wife told him it looked like he had a dead rat tied to the back of his head.
And then there was the time I had a hemangioma removed from behind my left ear. A kindly nurse carefully shaved my head so I could do a comb-over to cover the bare spot. But if I'd had a nurse who was harried and hurried, or who'd been intimidated when the surgeon told her to shave a bigger area, I probably would have wanted to wear a hat all the time til my hair grew out, too. And once I had to go to a job interview 2 days after having been in an accident and getting 2nd degree burns on my face. On the way to the interview, the Silvadeen cream TARNISHED, and I showed up with a blackened greasy face. No way to hide that, I wasn't about to scrub the Silvadeen off or apply makeup on a fresh burn.

I'd give the interviewer the benefit of the doubt. There are all sorts of medical reasons why a person might think wearing a cap would look better than baring his head.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Jocelyn on September 07, 2013, 11:30:18 AM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: AnnaJ on September 07, 2013, 12:31:20 PM
The jelly bean test is bad enough, but dancing? 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/currys-job-applicants-forced-dance-off-2254279
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: shhh its me on September 07, 2013, 01:03:59 PM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: squeakers on September 07, 2013, 01:40:12 PM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20081512,00.html 101 people is not that big of a sample.

This (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820826&id=dYZiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4810,3561052) link has a slightly larger article about the jelly bean study including which colors mean what.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: esposita on September 07, 2013, 02:07:07 PM

Ball Cap was not the boss or the owner.  He was the lowest ranking individual on the panel.  He had worked for the company for 3 years (that's one of the questions I like to ask the interviewers -- you learn a bit about stability.)  Since they were running an hour late with the interviews, I spent plenty of time in the lobby watching people come and go (patients, nurses, doctors, and staff).  No one else had on a ball cap. It did not appear to be a religious issue, as the had matched his t-shirt, proclaiming his allegiance with a local college.  (I've worked in religious institutions and know that yarmulkes and zucchettis stay on the wearer.)  No one else had on a t-shirt either.

This might make me think that he was headed from or going to a college recruiting event.  I could be way off, but if he's not new and none of the other interviewers were giving him funny looks, I would assume this is normal (and accepted) attire for him, at least in certain situations.

That was my thought as well. Perhaps he was called in at the last minute, and his schedule didn't allow time to change? I probably wouldn't think anything of it if none of his bosses were making any kind of deal about it.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: shhh its me on September 07, 2013, 02:59:49 PM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20081512,00.html 101 people is not that big of a sample.

This (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820826&id=dYZiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4810,3561052) link has a slightly larger article about the jelly bean study including which colors mean what.

On almost any job application there is/was a place for "other interests".  One day I found and read the hiring guide put out by some personal company/staffing researching company (this was 20 years ago I have no idea who )  What struck me was the guide said (this was for sales positions) "Select applicants who mention team activities such as playing team sports and do not hire applicants who list solo activities such as reading."   Even a relatively logical correlations  "People who ONLY enjoy activities that involve no other people may make bad sales people." was be misapplied into  "People who list 2 or 3 activities on a job application other then team activities make poor sales people".    At this time people were still making the decisions so they just ignored that advice. Now that applications are being computer screened I wonder how many random "automatic reject" answers are programed for seeming innocuous questions and are based on "Major university studys" and wild logic jumps.   
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Jocelyn on September 07, 2013, 10:48:13 PM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20081512,00.html 101 people is not that big of a sample.

This (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820826&id=dYZiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4810,3561052) link has a slightly larger article about the jelly bean study including which colors mean what.
Ah...she came up with 56 profiles, based on a sample of 101 people? I'd love to figure out how THOSE stats worked.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: TootsNYC on September 08, 2013, 06:12:42 PM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20081512,00.html 101 people is not that big of a sample.

This (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820826&id=dYZiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4810,3561052) link has a slightly larger article about the jelly bean study including which colors mean what.


I always thought that jelly bean colors indicated flavor. Maybe in the pre-Jelly Belly days, the color was pretty secondary, so this might have been more valid then. But now?
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: TootsNYC on September 08, 2013, 06:14:15 PM
Oh--re: the cap

We can invent all sorts of reasons for a baseball cap. It may just be because he could get away with it. And it might be very inappropriate attire.

But I reserve the word "offended" for pretty personal and "deliberately pointed at me" stuff.

For me to get offended, I'd have to believe that this guy was deliberately wearing his baseball cap AT me. Hard for me to take that seriously. And since it would have nothing to do with me, and probably nothing to do with how seriously he wanted to recruit me, and everything to do with the fact that he likes to wear a baseball cap, I wouldn't be *offended.*
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: artk2002 on September 09, 2013, 09:39:01 AM


Wow! Why would anyone do an activity in a meeting where people would be described as "skilled brown-noser", " might stay at school to horde supplies" or "The red jelly bean person can be extremely frustrated. In fact, researchers would like you to submit your name and address for future research!" (specially for a commonly liked flavour like strawberry).
And there's no evidence that this is anything more than one person's idea- no research is cited.

It did vaguely reference a "major university study.  but vague references to  "major university's"  studies make me more suspicious  then citing fortune cookies as your source.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20081512,00.html 101 people is not that big of a sample.

This (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2519&dat=19820826&id=dYZiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lXcNAAAAIBAJ&pg=4810,3561052) link has a slightly larger article about the jelly bean study including which colors mean what.
Ah...she came up with 56 profiles, based on a sample of 101 people? I'd love to figure out how THOSE stats worked.

Pop psychology at its very worst. "People" magazine isn't a scientific journal (by any stretch of the imagination), nor is a newspaper. I searched PubMed and could only find one citation that might be the psychologist in question and no citations for any jelly bean study. In other words, this was science-by-press-release.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: fountainof on September 12, 2013, 10:24:56 AM
My BIL has had brain surgery and he has been able to wear a baseball cap at work.  He does see contractors and dresses on the casual side (like the IT dress mentioned) but he probably didn't wear a hat before he recently had to cut all his hair off to do radiation and now you can really see the scar (the surgery was a few years ago).  He is a chatty guy, so I assume he probably has told some of his clients but maybe not as people get real freaked out about that sort of stuff.

So what I am saying, is there could be a medical reason for the hat and the interviewer has no reason to tell the interviewee.  I think it is a bit much to initially be offended as long as he was professional and took the interview seriously the cap should just have been ignored.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cami on September 16, 2013, 08:36:11 AM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?
FTR, the test had nothing to do with colors of the jellybeans.  The test was to see how you reacted to the jar of food items. Do you move it? Do you leave it? If you move it, to where do you move it? Do you ask a question about it? Do you take jellybeans? Do you offer the jellybean jar to others?
 
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Twik on September 16, 2013, 08:42:13 AM
For those who wear baseball caps indoors, "because I'm balding/have bad hair/have scars/whatever," could you perhaps invest in some different headgear, at least?

Ball caps give a message of either "I'm playing right now, not working," or "I'm doing manual labour outdoors." At least a fedora or porkpie would have a more upscale appearance!
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Yvaine on September 16, 2013, 02:49:26 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?
FTR, the test had nothing to do with colors of the jellybeans.  The test was to see how you reacted to the jar of food items. Do you move it? Do you leave it? If you move it, to where do you move it? Do you ask a question about it? Do you take jellybeans? Do you offer the jellybean jar to others?

I'd probably just ignore it, which would probably disqualify me in some mysterious way, thus dodging the bullet.  ;D
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: shhh its me on September 16, 2013, 04:51:58 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?
FTR, the test had nothing to do with colors of the jellybeans.  The test was to see how you reacted to the jar of food items. Do you move it? Do you leave it? If you move it, to where do you move it? Do you ask a question about it? Do you take jellybeans? Do you offer the jellybean jar to others?

I'd probably just ignore it, which would probably disqualify me in some mysterious way, thus dodging the bullet.  ;D
Me too , unless it was so large it blocked my view of the people I was speaking to.   
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Cami on September 16, 2013, 05:27:45 PM
Perhaps that's the point, to throw the interviewer out of his/her comfort zone.  We're used to a certain "look" at a corporate interview, and a baseball cap obviously is different.  Maybe the aim is to see who doesn't get flustered by it.
I can't stand mind games like that.  I wouldn't get flustered, but I wouldn't think too highly of the interviewer.

My dh once did an interview in which they put a huge jar of jelly beans in front of each candidate. He was offered the job and asked what the deal was with the jelly bean jar, at which point the HR person laughed and said that department used the jelly bean "test" to determine which candidate to hire. He turned the job down based on that because (1) he thought the test was stupid and (2) loathes playing "games" to make important decisions and didn't want to be part of that environment. He knew the person who did take the job and he ended up leaving because they were always having these inane "tests" sprung on them that counted more in their reviews than their actual work.

What was the test ?  how did you pass the jelly bean quiz?
FTR, the test had nothing to do with colors of the jellybeans.  The test was to see how you reacted to the jar of food items. Do you move it? Do you leave it? If you move it, to where do you move it? Do you ask a question about it? Do you take jellybeans? Do you offer the jellybean jar to others?

I'd probably just ignore it, which would probably disqualify me in some mysterious way, thus dodging the bullet.  ;D
Me too , unless it was so large it blocked my view of the people I was speaking to.
IIRC, my dh moved the jar to one side, while asking if anyone else wanted it. When someone said they did, he got up and walked it down to that person. Apparently that was the "DINGDINGDING, we have a winnah!" response.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: BigBadBetty on September 16, 2013, 06:34:14 PM
I work in an IT department. Baseball caps are very common among men here. It rare to see anything dressier than a polo shirt and khaki pants. I would suggest that anyone offended by baseball caps stay out of IT except maybe in super-corporate environments.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: artk2002 on September 17, 2013, 10:42:54 AM
I work in an IT department. Baseball caps are very common among men here. It rare to see anything dressier than a polo shirt and khaki pants. I would suggest that anyone offended by baseball caps stay out of IT except maybe in super-corporate environments.

For me, the first point is that hats, on men, are not appropriate indoors at all. Baseball, fedora, top hat, cowboy or fez. My second point is that an interview is a more formal occasion than day-to-day work. The candidate is expected to go to extra effort to look good and it's incumbent on the interviewers to do the same.

I work in IT. My normal working outfit is shorts and a t-shirt. If I'm doing an interview, you can bet that I change my clothing, out of respect for the candidate.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Goosey on September 17, 2013, 10:49:42 AM
I think at some point overarching etiqutte rules are supposed to be ignored depending on a few things. For instance, I don't really care too much about etiquette when I am hanging out with a close friend or my husband.

For me, in this instance, the etiquette of "NO HATS EVEEER!" is to be brushed aside for corporate environments. If the corporate environment is one that allows hats, then it is not rude or insulting for anyone - man or woman - to wear a hat indoors.

From the outfit (matching hat & shirt), I agree with others who said that it sounds like he was going to some kind of promotional event. In this case, it is best think of this individual as "in uniform" rather than as being insulting.

Quote
The candidate is expected to go to extra effort to look good and it's incumbent on the interviewers to do the same.

I completely disagree, Art. The only person there who needs to make the BEST impression is the interviewee. The interviewers represent the company and their culture and would be MISrepresenting the culture to do otherwise. If someone is going to be insulted by employees wearing hats indoors, it's best that they know that it's a normal practice at this company before they are hired on and surprised.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: wolfie on September 17, 2013, 10:57:03 AM
I completely disagree, Art. The only person there who needs to make the BEST impression is the interviewee. The interviewers represent the company and their culture and would be MISrepresenting the culture to do otherwise. If someone is going to be insulted by employees wearing hats indoors, it's best that they know that it's a normal practice at this company before they are hired on and surprised.
Using that logic the person being interviewed should not be in his best behavior either because he is misrepresenting himself if he does otherwise. Interviewing is a two way street. The interviewer to see if he wants that person as an employee, the interviewee to see if he wants to work there. Both people should be putting their best foot forward. It's kinda like a first date - if this is how someone acts when they want to impress you, how are they going to act once the shine wears off?
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Goosey on September 17, 2013, 11:03:42 AM
I completely disagree, Art. The only person there who needs to make the BEST impression is the interviewee. The interviewers represent the company and their culture and would be MISrepresenting the culture to do otherwise. If someone is going to be insulted by employees wearing hats indoors, it's best that they know that it's a normal practice at this company before they are hired on and surprised.
Using that logic the person being interviewed should not be in his best behavior either because he is misrepresenting himself if he does otherwise. Interviewing is a two way street. The interviewer to see if he wants that person as an employee, the interviewee to see if he wants to work there. Both people should be putting their best foot forward. It's kinda like a first date - if this is how someone acts when they want to impress you, how are they going to act once the shine wears off?

For many people, a casual work environment WOULD be their best foot forward. So, just because they don't represent YOUR standards of best they could be, doesn't mean they aren't representing what they are selling. It's the same way with interviewees.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: wolfie on September 17, 2013, 11:11:43 AM
I completely disagree, Art. The only person there who needs to make the BEST impression is the interviewee. The interviewers represent the company and their culture and would be MISrepresenting the culture to do otherwise. If someone is going to be insulted by employees wearing hats indoors, it's best that they know that it's a normal practice at this company before they are hired on and surprised.
Using that logic the person being interviewed should not be in his best behavior either because he is misrepresenting himself if he does otherwise. Interviewing is a two way street. The interviewer to see if he wants that person as an employee, the interviewee to see if he wants to work there. Both people should be putting their best foot forward. It's kinda like a first date - if this is how someone acts when they want to impress you, how are they going to act once the shine wears off?

For many people, a casual work environment WOULD be their best foot forward. So, just because they don't represent YOUR standards of best they could be, doesn't mean they aren't representing what they are selling. It's the same way with interviewees.

Sure - I work in a causal work environment too - I come to work in jeans and shirts all the time and wouldn't want to go back to a work environment where I need to dress up. But that doesn't mean that I am going to go to an interview in jeans and a tshirt - I am still going to dress up to show my respect for the company I am interviewing with. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to expect them to show me the same respect. I can see what the culture is like when I am walking through the office and seeing the other people there.

To be honest I am not sure what you were trying to say with the above post, besides trying to look down on me based on your assumptions of what I consider best behavior to be.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Goosey on September 17, 2013, 11:12:58 AM
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't expect my interviewers to dress outside of their company culture to interview me. I wouldn't even want them to!
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: Mrs. Tilney on September 17, 2013, 12:04:14 PM
Also, there have been times when people are called to sit in on interviews without necessarily having much, if any, notice. The interview may not have been on this man's calendar that morning.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: White Lotus on September 17, 2013, 09:11:53 PM
I will cut a pass for uniform hats required to be worn indoors or in transition areas for outdoor workers.  The etiquette rule remains that the hat comes off a man's head indoors.  Women wear head coverings as part of their outfits, as wardrobe -- men don't.  A man who wants to cover his head for medical reasons has other choices -- it is still a violation of the etiquette rule, but might get a pass.  It just doesn't have to be one of those stupid ball caps.  Pork pie, news agent, fedora, pirate scarf, biker bandanna -- just not those ugly ball caps.  I have seen Orthodox Jewish men, for reasons best known only to them, since a yarmulke is an exception to the rule, wearing other hats indoors, which I found ill-mannered until I found out they were covering yarmulkes, and then I could consider them yarmulke-equivalents.  At least they weren't wearing ball caps.
But I still stick to my guns about the etiquette rule generally.  That has not changed.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: DavidH on September 18, 2013, 10:53:38 AM
I think the etiquette rule is reasonably clear, and the hat in what I'm assuming was not a lobby or public elevator is rude.  Being offended it is fine, since who am I to tell you how to feel, but you need to decide if it's a deal breaker or not regarding a job.  For me, it wouldn't be.  On the other hand, if you are very offended by it, working with this person on a regular basis, hat and all, will only make things worse, so the job is probably not a good fit. 

I understand that there could be reasons  to wear a hat indoors, but things such as "I like the way it looks" or "I don't want you to see that I'm bald" don't change whether it's rude or not.  A religious reason or a poorly thought out uniform that requires it are entirely different.

Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: mbbored on September 21, 2013, 10:47:31 PM
Oh--re: the cap

We can invent all sorts of reasons for a baseball cap. It may just be because he could get away with it. And it might be very inappropriate attire.

But I reserve the word "offended" for pretty personal and "deliberately pointed at me" stuff.

For me to get offended, I'd have to believe that this guy was deliberately wearing his baseball cap AT me. Hard for me to take that seriously. And since it would have nothing to do with me, and probably nothing to do with how seriously he wanted to recruit me, and everything to do with the fact that he likes to wear a baseball cap, I wouldn't be *offended.*

I completely agree. If you don't want to be around men who wear baseball hats indoors, don't accept a job if they were a baseball hat at the interview. And if they do, in no way shape or form should it be taken as a personal offense.
Title: Re: Baseball caps in an interview
Post by: pixel dust on September 23, 2013, 10:18:01 AM
I'll admit - the president/owner of my company has interviewed in a baseball cap before. That's his normal "work uniform" though. We're in a very laid back office - jeans and t-shirts (clean and neat) are the normal clothing worn here. Several people have visible tattoos and my own hair is bright magenta.

I think it really just depends on your office environment. We work in music so our clients are normally a laid back, eccentric bunch. In other office environments I understand that the office dress code is more professional and baseball caps, t-shirts, and jeans (not to mention non-natural hair colors and visible tattoos) wouldn't be acceptable.

When it comes down to it, if you're uncomfortable with an office culture that's casual enough that the owner/interviewer wears a baseball cap (has visible tattoos, wears jeans and a t-shirt, etc.) then you can turn down the job. If the interviewer was allowed to come into work that day wearing what they're wearing and interview you, then obviously it's an appropriate work uniform for that particular job/office. I wouldn't call it rude, it's just a different, more relaxed office culture.

Honestly, I love my casual office. During the summer I wear flip-flops everyday, over the past 5 months I'd dyed my hair various colors and, as I mentioned before, currently have bright magenta hair. My boss loves it. BUT - our office is extremely casual. If I ever changed jobs, I'd go back to my natural hair color and wear more professional, conservative clothing until I got a handle on what the new office's culture was like.