Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: snowdragon on September 10, 2013, 09:14:09 PM

Title: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 10, 2013, 09:14:09 PM
  I volunteered for the Anne Frank Project at school - we got our assignments today .   Included in the schedule were the phone numbers of each and every volunteer who had provided one.
   I am ticked that private information like that was given out without our consent - had I realized this would was going to be done, I would never have volunteered.  And it's put me off volunteering for anything else associated with the school.
   Is this normal now, that if you volunteer your private phone ( mine's unlisted for a reason) is fair game to be given out.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Really? on September 10, 2013, 09:17:30 PM
HI

Anywhere I have volunteered, the phone numbers are for the organizers only, not to be published.
Have you asked the organizers why?

ONlyme
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 10, 2013, 09:51:39 PM
Yeah that's not cool. I volunteer a great deal and I've always been told if there was a master volunteer list and how to keep my contact information from being included.

I think you need to say something to the school and make it clear that you won't be volunteering with them again because of this. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: GrammarNerd on September 10, 2013, 10:03:56 PM
It shouldn't be 'how things are done', but unfortunately, I think there's a certain contingent of people out there who aren't as savvy or concerned about the proper way to handle information like this. 

I've filled out some forms recently that asked for cell phone.  I don't put it on there.  I want it used for emergencies only, or when *I* deem that I want to use it.  Plus, I can see it getting on some kind of a list and getting those obnoxious calls and texts about lowering my credit rating or whatever.

One time, back in the early days of cell phones, I had a plan that had a per-minute charge.  I gave the number to my then-boss (small company, and she was married to the owner) for emergencies.  I was driving somewhere and she proceeded to call my phone and gabbed about nothing significant for 20 minutes!  If I remember right, I think I expensed the charges for that call.

I would contact the project heads and ask them about this, and why they put it on the list that went to everyone.  Explain that you never thought your information would go out to everyone in the group; if you had known that, you wouldn't have given that information or perhaps wouldn't have even volunteered.  Ask them to redistribute the list without your phone number.  Yeah, I know that won't fix the list that already is out there, but perhaps if they have to do a bit of work, they'll think twice about giving out people's information in the future without a specific disclaimer.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 10, 2013, 10:14:06 PM
This is absolutely not how things are generally done! I think you should respond to the organizers - every person in charge - and let them know just how very uncool this action was and that this one action will almost certainly cause you not volunteer with them again.

I'm on the "core team" of my CSA. We had one member who was very very concerned about her contact information being distributed. I never asked why (not my business) but certainly heard her concerns, as did most of the core team. one guy apparently dismissed her though because he repeatedly sent out emails to the whole group with addresses in the "to" field instead of BCC - even after the concerned member politely responded to the first asking that this not happen again (she graciously assumed it was an accident). The guy, instead of apologizing and taking her gracious 'out', responded to everyone, that her concerns were ridiculous and there was no possible way to stay anonymous in today's world. The rest of the core team had to restrict that guys access to everything because we could not trust him. We lost that one member (the woman who was concerned) anyway. We need our members and we respect our members; Its common courtesy to not reveal their contact info, and its not very hard to just use BBC and not share phone numbers!
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Danika on September 10, 2013, 11:41:28 PM
I'd be pretty angry. There is one volunteer group I belong to that has a members only website (meaning you need a username and password) but once you log in, you can access everyone's home address and phone number. I don't think they warned us in advance that that would be accessible, but I wasn't too mad about it because I only gave them my home phone (which we are nearly never available to answer) not my cell number. Like a PP, I learned the hard way that with an emergency only cell phone line that was $0.47/minute, people couldn't listen to instructions and would call you anyway.

However, I think any group should tell members in advance if they plan to distribute private information like that.

Sadly, I don't think it's too uncommon. It's why I have two email addresses just for spam and a dedicated Google Voice phone number to put on my resume for job searching.

In your shoes, I would definitely tell them that I am very upset that they disseminated my private information without permission and that they will lose me as a volunteer in the future if they don't update the list without my contact information on it.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Virg on September 11, 2013, 08:40:12 AM
In your place, I'd drop out of the volunteer list immediately (including dropping any projects that are already underway), and tell them why.  For people who don't "get it" about protecting contact information, it's a pointless struggle, so the only way to change it is to make it costly for them.

Virg
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: *inviteseller on September 11, 2013, 08:34:53 PM
When I was on the PTA, the only phone numbers given out to the whole school was the board members.  The different committees did not have their members numbers published and if someone wanted it, they would ask the actual person.  I would be mad too as I have a private number and I guard it.  I would talk to whoever is in charge of this debacle and tell them you did not give anyone permission to publish your phone number publicly and that because of it, you will no longer be participating.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Deetee on September 11, 2013, 09:40:40 PM
I have a few questions that weren't clear. Was this schedule given to the public or just to the other volunteers? Because if I'm on a project with people the first thing we do is exchange numbers. If this was a list of five volunteers and numbers is find that totally normal. If it was a 100 I'd find it odd and not be happy.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: johelenc1 on September 11, 2013, 09:52:16 PM
I confess, I really struggle with this a being a big deal.  I think we have forgotten that not too long ago ALL phone numbers were publically published - in the phone book!  You could look up anyone's number - anywhere in the whole country.  And if you didn't have a phone book,  you called 411 and asked for the number - and they would tell you!  This information was completely public UNLESS a person specifically asked to opt out - ie: ask for their number to be unlisted.  The burden was on the person to make the request.  The default was that the number was publically published.

I'm not sure where the idea that phone number are super secret until said otherwise began.  I don't really get it.  However, just as a person could have one's number unpublished before, I think they have the right to ask for that now.  But, as then, the onus is on the individual to request it.

Personally, I think all phone numbers should be considered public unless requested otherwise.  So, OP, if you don't won't your number shared then it's your responsibly to pass along that information when you give your number.  When you give it to a friend you should also say, "btw, I don't like my number to be given out so please ask before you pass it along."

And when we receive a request like this it should be respected and adhered to.  I would have no problem protecting that information (or an email) of asked to do so.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 11, 2013, 10:00:03 PM
I have a few questions that weren't clear. Was this schedule given to the public or just to the other volunteers? Because if I'm on a project with people the first thing we do is exchange numbers. If this was a list of five volunteers and numbers is find that totally normal. If it was a 100 I'd find it odd and not be happy.

This was give to between 200 and 300 volunteers and staff.
I confess, I really struggle with this a being a big deal.  I think we have forgotten that not too long ago ALL phone numbers were publically published - in the phone book!  You could look up anyone's number - anywhere in the whole country.  And if you didn't have a phone book,  you called 411 and asked for the number - and they would tell you!  This information was completely public UNLESS a person specifically asked to opt out - ie: ask for their number to be unlisted.  The burden was on the person to make the request.  The default was that the number was publically published.

I'm not sure where the idea that phone number are super secret until said otherwise began.  I don't really get it.  However, just as a person could have one's number unpublished before, I think they have the right to ask for that now.  But, as then, the onus is on the individual to request it.

Personally, I think all phone numbers should be considered public unless requested otherwise.  So, OP, if you don't won't your number shared then it's your responsibly to pass along that information when you give your number.  When you give it to a friend you should also say, "btw, I don't like my number to be given out so please ask before you pass it along."




If you read my post - I did say the number is unlisted.  I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Promise on September 11, 2013, 10:24:58 PM
What is the real concern? That someone might call? Perhaps they had a box to check if you didn't want your phone number published and it wasn't checked. In my schools, that's what was on the form. However, I am agreeing with the previous poster who talked about the phone book. Goodness, I can find people's cell phone numbers with a simple google search. If you had stalkers, I can understand why the fuss. But I think we now seem to live with the idea of "privacy is paramount!!" when we truly don't have privacy. Of all the phone lists I've been on, and I've been on many in education and in churches, I've never had anyone abuse my cell phone number. Most of the time only my close friends and family ever call.

I live in a community where doors remain unlocked...all day...on vacation. People leave their windows open in their homes and cars. Women don't carry their purse while grocery shopping but put in the cart! They talk to their neighbors and go to community events together. We have much less stress than our neighboring city people one reason is because we care about each other and trust each other. If so and so calls too much, I just look at caller ID and don't answer. My home phone doesn't have an answering machine. I choose the calls I return. It's an easier way to live life without worrying about my phone.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Gogi on September 11, 2013, 10:41:46 PM
Quote
We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.

Or perhaps she (who is "she"-- I must have missed something) simply made a mistake. Quitting the AFP and all other projects with which you are involved (as is suggested a few posts back) seem a bit overreactive for something that may have been an innocent error.

Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 11, 2013, 11:08:50 PM
Quote
We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.

Or perhaps she (who is "she"-- I must have missed something) simply made a mistake. Quitting the AFP and all other projects with which you are involved (as is suggested a few posts back) seem a bit overreactive for something that may have been an innocent error.

  She is the volunteer co-coordinator for the AFP. And I have a hard time believing that she included all of our numbers by mistake. One or two perhaps, even 10 or 20 could be a mistake, but everyone who had provided one - had to be deliberate. If that's an oversight - she needs a new job.
   And yeah, I am never volunteering for anything on campus again.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 11, 2013, 11:49:11 PM
I don't think the OP has to justify to US why she does not want her private and unlisted phone number given out to anyone.  It doesn't matter if she lives in the middle of a war zone or in Mayberry where no doors are locked. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: jedikaiti on September 12, 2013, 12:00:38 AM
I don't think the OP has to justify to US why she does not want her private and unlisted phone number given out to anyone.  It doesn't matter if she lives in the middle of a war zone or in Mayberry where no doors are locked.

Exactly. And, if this breach gives rise to a need to have that number changed, this coordinator should be the one to foot the bill, IMHO.

Also, a complaint to coordinator's boss/supervisor would not be out of line.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Gogi on September 12, 2013, 12:35:05 AM
I don't think the OP has to justify to US why she does not want her private and unlisted phone number given out to anyone.  It doesn't matter if she lives in the middle of a war zone or in Mayberry where no doors are locked.

Exactly. And, if this breach gives rise to a need to have that number changed, this coordinator should be the one to foot the bill, IMHO.

Also, a complaint to coordinator's boss/supervisor would not be out of line.

Re the 3 thoughts above:

Speaking for myself,I'm definitely not asking the OP to justify anything -- I'm merely offering a possible scenario.

Expecting the coordinator to pay for a new phone number, especially if her actions were an innocent error, is IMHO
a huge overreaction.

So is a complaint to the boss; a head's up however (as in "you should be aware this happened") might be nice.


Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 12, 2013, 02:25:22 AM
I don't think the OP has to justify to US why she does not want her private and unlisted phone number given out to anyone.  It doesn't matter if she lives in the middle of a war zone or in Mayberry where no doors are locked.

Exactly. And, if this breach gives rise to a need to have that number changed, this coordinator should be the one to foot the bill, IMHO.

Also, a complaint to coordinator's boss/supervisor would not be out of line.

Re the 3 thoughts above:

Speaking for myself,I'm definitely not asking the OP to justify anything -- I'm merely offering a possible scenario.

Expecting the coordinator to pay for a new phone number, especially if her actions were an innocent error, is IMHO
a huge overreaction.

So is a complaint to the boss; a head's up however (as in "you should be aware this happened") might be nice.




I don't agree that the organization needs to pay for a phone number change, but a complaint to her boss is not out of line. 

Whether you (general) like it or not, there is a trend towards more privacy than not. Especially with phone numbers due to telemarketing and data mining.  The OP took advantage of all of the tools given to her to keep her contact information private.  If there was never an expectation of privacy, then why did the organization offer those options.  The organizer might have been clueless, or she could have thought that the rules didn't apply to her.  However, the OP won't know if she doesn't say anything. 

As for not ever volunteering again.  If the OP doesn't feel comfortable with the organization she is well within her rights to not volunteer. As a very busy volunteer, I would much rather give my time to an organization I like and am comfortable with.  I personally have stopped volunteering for reasons such as: not liking the activities, poor organization, rude volunteers, and meh...I don't feel like it any more.  I'm sure to someone I overreacted, but life it too short to do things you don't like....for free
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: DragonKitty on September 12, 2013, 02:43:01 PM
A complaint to her boss, and other members of the board, giving this as reason why you will not be volunteering anymore is totally warrented by her actions.

If you don't complain, she will continue to violate people's privacy in the future.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: daen on September 12, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
I can think of several reasons why people are more protective of their telephone numbers:
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: auntmeegs on September 12, 2013, 03:24:55 PM
I confess, I really struggle with this a being a big deal.  I think we have forgotten that not too long ago ALL phone numbers were publically published - in the phone book!  You could look up anyone's number - anywhere in the whole country.  And if you didn't have a phone book,  you called 411 and asked for the number - and they would tell you!  This information was completely public UNLESS a person specifically asked to opt out - ie: ask for their number to be unlisted.  The burden was on the person to make the request.  The default was that the number was publically published.

I'm not sure where the idea that phone number are super secret until said otherwise began.  I don't really get it.  However, just as a person could have one's number unpublished before, I think they have the right to ask for that now.  But, as then, the onus is on the individual to request it.

Personally, I think all phone numbers should be considered public unless requested otherwise.  So, OP, if you don't won't your number shared then it's your responsibly to pass along that information when you give your number.  When you give it to a friend you should also say, "btw, I don't like my number to be given out so please ask before you pass it along."

And when we receive a request like this it should be respected and adhered to.  I would have no problem protecting that information (or an email) of asked to do so.

You're not alone.  I don't get it either. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ladyknight1 on September 12, 2013, 03:30:52 PM
I understand the OPs stance on this.

However, I am extremely surprised that your school agrees not to give any information. Is it a public or private college? I have pretty tight security on my personal information but any employee, even students that are work study, can access all information on every student, prior or current.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 12, 2013, 04:51:54 PM
I understand the OPs stance on this.

However, I am extremely surprised that your school agrees not to give any information. Is it a public or private college? I have pretty tight security on my personal information but any employee, even students that are work study, can access all information on every student, prior or current.

It it s public college, the form I filled out falls under the FERPA act and is the mandated opt out form for disclosure ~ when I filled it out I was warned that if I did I was baring them from even giving info to employers. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ladyknight1 on September 12, 2013, 05:09:55 PM
Only information covered by FERPA are grades and SSN information. All biographical information can be released unless you go farther.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Danika on September 12, 2013, 05:36:55 PM
  • If you carry your cell phone with you, theoretically you can be reached 24/7. The more people have your number, the more likely it is that people will call you while you're out having dinner or otherwise trying to relax. (I know, you can turn it off - but not everyone thinks of that every time.)

This is the reason I don't like people to have my cell number. I can't speak for others, so I don't know how often other people are sitting around doing absolutely nothing with silence in the background waiting for a phone call. But I'm always busy, physically active, and there's generally some sound in the background. I'm always either swimming, vacuuming, cooking, playing the piano, relaxing and watching a movie, replying to email, reading EHell, disciplining my kids, talking to my kids, etc. I even have to plan my relaxation and hair-washing on my calendar. I don't like anyone calling me or texting me for any non-emergency. My friends and I make appointments to Skype.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Cebollita on September 12, 2013, 06:29:04 PM
THis is a genuine question and not written out of malice or sarcasm. I know about privacy concerns where harm could occur - shredding those pre-approved credit card offers, for example, so no one can steal one and apply in your name and ruin your credit. But I truly do not understand how a phone number released to fellow volunteers could be harmful. So this is a genuine question - please explain! And I don't mean, "If she doesn't want her number shared, then she has that right!" I know that. But why? What could happen? Are you afraid of sales calls from the other volunteers? A name and a phone number, as far as I can understand, are all that are shared. What is the *worst* that could happen, in your wildest imagination? I don't understand, truly and honestly.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: baglady on September 12, 2013, 07:01:05 PM
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't understand what the problem is. OP volunteered for a project. It's realistic to expect that the volunteers will be able to reach one another to discuss the project, plan meetings, etc. The phone number went to the other volunteers, not to the public at large. Did the project coordinator get the number from the school's database? If so, was it flagged, "Emergencies only -- do not give out" or something similar? If not, then I don't think it's realistic to expect it not to be shared with other volunteers on the project. Before cellphones and email and texting and Skype, phone numbers were freely given without a second thought, unless there were extenuating circumstances.

The number is out there now, so this can't be undone. If you don't want people calling you on that number, perhaps you could call or email the project coordinator and ask that you prefer to be contacted by email, or your work number, or some other method.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: TootsNYC on September 12, 2013, 07:07:30 PM
If your  number is *unlisted,* then yes, they were very wrong.

I'd be complaining quite measuredly but firmly. And also enquiring about how to prevent this in the future.

If your number weren't specifically unlisted, I'd be agreeing with johelenc1.

And I do see baglady's point--this may have been distributed to other people, but it IS people who are working on a project with the OP, not to the public at large. How *would* they get ahold of one another?


(This might be a good time to look into a Google Voice number--it can be jettisoned very easily if it gets abused.)
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: johelenc1 on September 12, 2013, 07:25:44 PM
I have a few questions that weren't clear. Was this schedule given to the public or just to the other volunteers? Because if I'm on a project with people the first thing we do is exchange numbers. If this was a list of five volunteers and numbers is find that totally normal. If it was a 100 I'd find it odd and not be happy.

This was give to between 200 and 300 volunteers and staff.
I confess, I really struggle with this a being a big deal.  I think we have forgotten that not too long ago ALL phone numbers were publically published - in the phone book!  You could look up anyone's number - anywhere in the whole country.  And if you didn't have a phone book,  you called 411 and asked for the number - and they would tell you!  This information was completely public UNLESS a person specifically asked to opt out - ie: ask for their number to be unlisted.  The burden was on the person to make the request.  The default was that the number was publically published.

I'm not sure where the idea that phone number are super secret until said otherwise began.  I don't really get it.  However, just as a person could have one's number unpublished before, I think they have the right to ask for that now.  But, as then, the onus is on the individual to request it.

Personally, I think all phone numbers should be considered public unless requested otherwise.  So, OP, if you don't won't your number shared then it's your responsibly to pass along that information when you give your number.  When you give it to a friend you should also say, "btw, I don't like my number to be given out so please ask before you pass it along."




If you read my post - I did say the number is unlisted.  I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.

Well, I did read your post and was fully aware your number was unlisted.  What you did not say, however, was that you had previously requested your number not to be shared and that request was ignored.  Your question was, "is this normal now that your private phone number is fair game to be given out?"  And you indicated you were so annoyed that you never wanted to volunteer again.  "Private" to me does not mean unlisted.  In fact, based on a variety of posts on this site, it seems many people consider their phone numbers "private" and not to be shared.  It is not often that they also say it is "unlisted".

I answered the question "is this normal".  My answer is yes.  And, frankly, I think it should be per my argument that all phone numbers were public unless requested otherwise.

Your question is "should my request be disregarded just because I'm on a committee and volunteer".  And, to me, that answer is, "of course not!"  You have made the request and of course it should be respected.  Whoever gave out your number was wrong and you should send a request to the appropriate person asking you number to be removed from the list and asking that an email be sent to everyone who received the list noting the mistake and asking everyone to not share your number with anyone.

However, I would hate to think that never volunteering again is your only option because of the actions, quite likely accidental, of one person.  If it were me, the next time I volunteered, I would add a statement or note in some way that my phone number is unlisted and I did NOT want it shared.  I would say I would personally share it as needed with the immediate members of the committee group to which I belonged.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: violetminnow on September 12, 2013, 07:32:24 PM
I've volunteered before and being able to contact other volunteers by phone is essential. Did you tell the volunteer coordinator before you signed up that your contact information was off limits?

Otherwise I'd say this is just a lesson learned, in volunteer organizations it's important to be able to contact other volunteers quickly and efficiently. In some cases I'm sure some organizations would accept an email instead of a phone #, as long as you checked it often and responded quickly.

I think writing off all volunteering in the future is not in keeping with the spirit you had when you signed up in the first place. I would advise that you speak to the coordinator about how things could have been done differently and be more cautious in the future.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: johelenc1 on September 12, 2013, 07:38:16 PM
Quote
We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.

Or perhaps she (who is "she"-- I must have missed something) simply made a mistake. Quitting the AFP and all other projects with which you are involved (as is suggested a few posts back) seem a bit overreactive for something that may have been an innocent error.

  She is the volunteer co-coordinator for the AFP. And I have a hard time believing that she included all of our numbers by mistake. One or two perhaps, even 10 or 20 could be a mistake, but everyone who had provided one - had to be deliberate. If that's an oversight - she needs a new job.
   And yeah, I am never volunteering for anything on campus again.
[/quote

Snowdragon - It seems clear that something has happened in your life that has made you hyper-vigilent and concerned about your privacy.  That is completely understandable and I'm certain, necessary.  But it seems you are finding offense where there is none.  I suspect you are right in saying the woman did not make a mistake in sending all of the numbers to everyone.  That is probably exactly what she meant to do.  That's what most people would do when coordinating a project - make sure the people in involved could communicate and reach each other.  Her mistake was most likely in not making sure your number was NOT included as it had been requested.  Either she failed to check the "do not send my number to anyone" list, or she failed to check or un-check some box which put it on the list. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 12, 2013, 07:56:32 PM
Also cell phone numbers are not public or listed.  landlines may be listed, but cell phone number are not.  So for someone who has both an unlisted number and a cell phone number, it is completely understandable for them not to expect their contact information to be available unless they release it.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Psychopoesie on September 12, 2013, 08:39:41 PM
I'd be unhappy about having private contact info shared like that.

I'd expect to be asked before my details were placed on a shared list. The other volunteers may well be lovely people. I'd like to be the one to make that judgement.

Think a previous poster asked what's the worst that can happen? Lots of people have reasons they don't want their info out there, including safety reasons - abusive ex, family or stalkerish stuff going on in their lives. Others may have professions where there can be issues with phone numbers getting out - working in child protection, the criminal justice system, psychologists, etc. so people may end up being harassed or threatened.

Even if it just opens you up to another volunteer's attempts to interest you in their latest MLM, it's not a great move.




Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Danika on September 12, 2013, 10:15:18 PM
I just don't like the idea of someone giving someone else (especially many someone else's) my personal information without my permission. Sometimes, it's just the principle of the thing.

Maybe I would prefer people to only contact me via email. I wouldn't want anyone having my phone number. And even if it were a listed land-line phone number, it doesn't need to be given out. My real first name (not Danika) and last name are both very common. I love the anonymity that that provides. Even if I had a listed number, or you Googled my address, you would find many people with my name in my city. Giving my info out to people would upset me because now they know which Jennifer Smith is associated with which phone number.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 12, 2013, 10:37:27 PM
I think you all are picturing something different than what I volunteered for, this is not a committee type thing. This is a staffed (staff is paid; volunteers not)   conference where the volunteers are there to do things like ushering, traffic control ( man parking lots and direct traffic), show people how to get from one workshop to another, and set up chairs, stage props, help with arts and crafts and such. There is no need for any volunteer to get a hold of another during off hours. And the only folks we'll need to talk to while "working" will be in the same location as us. This is more akin to volunteering at a music fest as extra hands, than anything else. With 50 workshops and people coming from local schools, as well as from the college itself, there is a need for people to come in for a few hours, do what they are assigned to do and leave - but that's the extent of it.
Since the staff are all paid employees, who work on this year around, they may need to get a hold of each other, but other than the volunteer coordinator none of them need to get a hold of us  - and all of that so far has been emails.
 
  As far of as what FERPA covers, I spoke to two separate offices at school, both told me that once those forms are filled out they, give out nothing, at all. It may be different than your experiences, but I have to believe what the school offices ( Student Affairs and Registrar) tell me. 
 
  PS: this is a Landline we are talking about - that is unlisted. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: MariaE on September 13, 2013, 12:03:49 AM
Also cell phone numbers are not public or listed.  landlines may be listed, but cell phone number are not.  So for someone who has both an unlisted number and a cell phone number, it is completely understandable for them not to expect their contact information to be available unless they release it.

Really? They are in Denmark unless requested otherwise (if they're with a plan -pay-as-you-go phones aren't).

If you look me up in the white pages you'll find my land line, my private cell and my work cell all listed.

That aside, I agree completely with johelenc1. She said everything better than I could :)
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Danika on September 13, 2013, 12:42:58 AM
Really? They are in Denmark unless requested otherwise (if they're with a plan -pay-as-you-go phones aren't).

If you look me up in the white pages you'll find my land line, my private cell and my work cell all listed.

Wow! I'm surprised they'd list your private cell and work cell! I think that's unheard of in the U.S.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Danika on September 13, 2013, 12:46:35 AM
I think you all are picturing something different than what I volunteered for, this is not a committee type thing. This is a staffed (staff is paid; volunteers not)   conference where the volunteers are there to do things like ushering, traffic control ( man parking lots and direct traffic), show people how to get from one workshop to another, and set up chairs, stage props, help with arts and crafts and such. There is no need for any volunteer to get a hold of another during off hours. And the only folks we'll need to talk to while "working" will be in the same location as us. This is more akin to volunteering at a music fest as extra hands, than anything else. With 50 workshops and people coming from local schools, as well as from the college itself, there is a need for people to come in for a few hours, do what they are assigned to do and leave - but that's the extent of it.
Since the staff are all paid employees, who work on this year around, they may need to get a hold of each other, but other than the volunteer coordinator none of them need to get a hold of us  - and all of that so far has been emails.
 
  As far of as what FERPA covers, I spoke to two separate offices at school, both told me that once those forms are filled out they, give out nothing, at all. It may be different than your experiences, but I have to believe what the school offices ( Student Affairs and Registrar) tell me. 
 
  PS: this is a Landline we are talking about - that is unlisted.

Then it's even more shocking to me that they gave out a master list! I volunteer for a huge event in our city once a year. There are thousands of volunteers for that weekend. There are no criminal background checks. I wouldn't want them all having my name, address, email and phone number. With that many people getting all that information, I'd be afraid they'd resell it and I'd end up getting a lot of mail, email and phone spam.

The "captains" (high up volunteers who volunteer every year and lead others) break down their groups into smaller teams. About 100 of us on a team might see the other 99 members' email addresses on the "To" line. That's rare. And there's a Facebook group we can join (for just the 100) if we want to interact more with each other.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 13, 2013, 01:00:13 AM
After that update, I'm even more shocked at the actions of the coordinator. 

I regularly volunteer for major citywide festivals here in my city.  Because I work with the volunteer coordinator as a check in captain, I have access to other volunteers contact information.  BUT I don't get that information until I actually show up to work my shift and I can't take it home with me.  The most we see before we start volunteering is a master list of names and volunteer positions by date and time.  It comes out about a week before the event to give people time to make changes.  There is no CC'ing with multiple emails on the list

MariaE, in the US, cell phones have never been listed.  Or at least they haven't been listed in the 20 or so years since first my parents and then I had cell phones.  Landlines can still be listed, but with the decline of the printed white pages, it's harder and harder to find that info.  I know when my aunt signed up for a landline service, there was a section asking if you wanted to be listed and she said no.  Individual work numbers have never been in the white pages.  the most you get is the general number to the business.

It's so interesting to hear from people all over the world. :)
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: MariaE on September 13, 2013, 01:14:22 AM
MariaE, in the US, cell phones have never been listed.  Or at least they haven't been listed in the 20 or so years since first my parents and then I had cell phones.  Landlines can still be listed, but with the decline of the printed white pages, it's harder and harder to find that info.  I know when my aunt signed up for a landline service, there was a section asking if you wanted to be listed and she said no.  Individual work numbers have never been in the white pages.  the most you get is the general number to the business.

White pages aren't printed in Denmark any longer either, but they've moved online (same with yellow pages). You can ask to have them unlisted same as with landlines, but the default is to have them listed (i.e. it's opt-out rather than opt-in).
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: EllenS on September 16, 2013, 05:26:33 PM
I am a volunteer coordinator for a small program at my church.  We do share phone/email on a master list.  However, 1) it is a small group of people who all know each other; 2) mutual contact is necessary in case people need to switch shifts (much easier to do directly).

On a big event like you describe, I would not think a shared contact list to be reasonable or necessary.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: jedikaiti on September 16, 2013, 05:47:52 PM
I am a volunteer coordinator for a small program at my church.  We do share phone/email on a master list.  However, 1) it is a small group of people who all know each other; 2) mutual contact is necessary in case people need to switch shifts (much easier to do directly).

On a big event like you describe, I would not think a shared contact list to be reasonable or necessary.

That was my thinking as well - unless it's a small effort where people will be calling back and forth to various other volunteers a great deal, the only people who need the who need the whole list are the coordinators.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: snowdragon on September 16, 2013, 07:52:08 PM
I am a volunteer coordinator for a small program at my church.  We do share phone/email on a master list.  However, 1) it is a small group of people who all know each other; 2) mutual contact is necessary in case people need to switch shifts (much easier to do directly).

On a big event like you describe, I would not think a shared contact list to be reasonable or necessary.

I would think you disclose that information before hand - and if the person is not comfortable with it they can back out? 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: baglady on September 17, 2013, 09:38:12 PM
I stand corrected. I interpreted the word "project" in the name as an actual project -- as in, something being worked on over time -- rather than an event. In the latter case, I definitely don't think it's necessary for anyone but the person in charge of the volunteers to have phone numbers.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: EllenS on September 17, 2013, 09:54:50 PM
I am a volunteer coordinator for a small program at my church.  We do share phone/email on a master list.  However, 1) it is a small group of people who all know each other; 2) mutual contact is necessary in case people need to switch shifts (much easier to do directly).

On a big event like you describe, I would not think a shared contact list to be reasonable or necessary.

I would think you disclose that information before hand - and if the person is not comfortable with it they can back out?

We mainly recruit from members who are already in a mutually-distributed directory, and communicate on an open-cc list.  We also get volunteers signing up by writing their names and contact info on a piece of paper pinned to the wall in the corridor.  It seems pretty self-selecting.

ETA: clarifying that the volunteers are writing their OWN info on the posted list, I don't do that.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: edgypeanuts on September 17, 2013, 10:09:44 PM
THis is a genuine question and not written out of malice or sarcasm. I know about privacy concerns where harm could occur - shredding those pre-approved credit card offers, for example, so no one can steal one and apply in your name and ruin your credit. But I truly do not understand how a phone number released to fellow volunteers could be harmful. So this is a genuine question - please explain! And I don't mean, "If she doesn't want her number shared, then she has that right!" I know that. But why? What could happen? Are you afraid of sales calls from the other volunteers? A name and a phone number, as far as I can understand, are all that are shared. What is the *worst* that could happen, in your wildest imagination? I don't understand, truly and honestly.

I am a veterinarian, and I volunteer with a TNR group.  I am happy for those in the office and scheduling having my contact info, but I would be very not happy if my contact info was given out to all the volunteers because I don't want calls at home asking my opinions of their pet's illness or even my own clients calling me with questions unexpectedly.  I have given my number out to some of my clients, but I and only I decide who I am comfortable giving that info to. 

I have had people call my relatives and ask to talk to me cause their animal is sick and they don't trust their vet or want me to tell them if they actually have to take them to the emergency clinic or not.  I care about them and want to help, but it is stressful when I am not expecting it and it is really hard for people to understand that I cannot do much to help when I cannot see and feel the animal in question!  I also cannot legally prescribe for an animal I have not seen.  I feel like I cannot do a good job and it can reflect badly on my business and I also have the feeling of being "on call" which I hate. 

I have no problem working weekends and after hours for ongoing cases that I know well (most of my chemo patients have my number) but if it were given to 100+ volunteers, esp if most of them have animals and know what I do, I would consider leaving the group as well. 

Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 18, 2013, 06:20:36 AM
I don't get the whole, "my phone number is secret" thing either.

I can understand not wanting to post it somewhere where it could get picked up by a marketing agency, becuase those calls are annoying. I just think that worrying about an individual abusing your phone number is borrowing trouble, since it more than likely won't happen. (And if that's not what the OP is worried about, then why does she care who has her phone number?)

If they call at an inconvenient time: don't answer.
If they call too often: answer only on your own schedule.
If you don't want to speak to a specific person: set their ring tone to silent, or just make use of your caller ID, and don't answer.

It's really easy to manage who you speak to and when, whilst still having the convenience of being contactable by those who you might need to liase with. It basically boils down to not picking up the phone if you don't wanna.

On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 18, 2013, 06:26:54 AM
This is a genuine question and not written out of malice or sarcasm. I know about privacy concerns where harm could occur - shredding those pre-approved credit card offers, for example, so no one can steal one and apply in your name and ruin your credit. But I truly do not understand how a phone number released to fellow volunteers could be harmful. So this is a genuine question - please explain! And I don't mean, "If she doesn't want her number shared, then she has that right!" I know that. But why? What could happen? Are you afraid of sales calls from the other volunteers? A name and a phone number, as far as I can understand, are all that are shared. What is the *worst* that could happen, in your wildest imagination? I don't understand, truly and honestly.

I am a veterinarian, and I volunteer with a TNR group.  I am happy for those in the office and scheduling having my contact info, but I would be very not happy if my contact info was given out to all the volunteers because I don't want calls at home asking my opinions of their pet's illness or even my own clients calling me with questions unexpectedly.  I have given my number out to some of my clients, but I and only I decide who I am comfortable giving that info to. 

I have had people call my relatives and ask to talk to me cause their animal is sick and they don't trust their vet or want me to tell them if they actually have to take them to the emergency clinic or not.  I care about them and want to help, but it is stressful when I am not expecting it and it is really hard for people to understand that I cannot do much to help when I cannot see and feel the animal in question!  I also cannot legally prescribe for an animal I have not seen.  I feel like I cannot do a good job and it can reflect badly on my business and I also have the feeling of being "on call" which I hate. 

I have no problem working weekends and after hours for ongoing cases that I know well (most of my chemo patients have my number) but if it were given to 100+ volunteers, esp if most of them have animals and know what I do, I would consider leaving the group as well.


I know it's hard, especially because I'm sure you do want to help these animals, but as you say, you can't actually help over the phone.

I'd give the same stock answer every time, "I'm sorry, but it would be unsafe and unwise for me to attempt a diagnosis over the phone. You should take Fluffy to <local animal hospital>, and get him checked out there. I'd hate to miss something serious because I can't see the animal in front of me."  Make it about the animal's safety, and not your unavailability.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Collakat on September 18, 2013, 07:59:57 AM
For those who don't understand why this is an issue:

It is about the principle of giving out personal information. Cyber bullying, identity theft, computer hacking becoming an organised crime. Those are some of the reasons why personal information are considered personal and not public. Banks started using contact information to validate a person calling the call centres etc. So, if I do a bit of social engineering, one email address, contact information, I could escalate different accounts, subscriptions, untill I have full control over the target's online identity. It is possible  ;)

Privacy Law seems to apply in this case. Oversight or ignorance is unfortunately not an excuse. My contact detail is my information, I should have control over who has it and what they use it for. If I specifically indicated I don't want my contact information shared through a formal channel, then I'm not going to be impressed if that information is broadcasted.
This link has some useful info http://www.carnegiecyberacademy.com/facultyPages/communication/personalInfo.html (http://www.carnegiecyberacademy.com/facultyPages/communication/personalInfo.html)
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Collakat on September 18, 2013, 08:06:56 AM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

You shouln't have to take steps. Especially if you made a choice not to have your number out there and someone disregarded your privacy.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 18, 2013, 08:13:47 AM
For those who don't understand why this is an issue:

It is about the principle of giving out personal information. Cyber bullying, identity theft, computer hacking becoming an organised crime. Those are some of the reasons why personal information are considered personal and not public. Banks started using contact information to validate a person calling the call centres etc. So, if I do a bit of social engineering, one email address, contact information, I could escalate different accounts, subscriptions, untill I have full control over the target's online identity. It is possible  ;)

Privacy Law seems to apply in this case. Oversight or ignorance is unfortunately not an excuse. My contact detail is my information, I should have control over who has it and what they use it for. If I specifically indicated I don't want my contact information shared through a formal channel, then I'm not going to be impressed if that information is broadcasted.
This link has some useful info http://www.carnegiecyberacademy.com/facultyPages/communication/personalInfo.html (http://www.carnegiecyberacademy.com/facultyPages/communication/personalInfo.html)

It's possible, but it's also possible to do that from just a name and a city, which presumably the other volunteers will all know. I'm not talking about releasing your phone number to the general public, but to a much smaller group of people. This is what I mean about borrowing trouble.

It's certainly possible that somebody will steal your identity. But then, what do you fear will happen?

Financial consequences? The most likely outcome of identity theft. Eh, it's a pain to sort out, but it can be sorted out quite quickly. And somebody doesn't actually need your phone number to do this! If you've ever made an online purchase or used an ATM, somebody could steal your information.

Someone will actually impersonate you? That's so vanishingly unlikely as to be something that's not worth the amount of time that you'd have to invest in guarding against it. It would be like buying a special shark-proof swimsuit. Sure, in case of shark attack, you're sitting pretty, but is it really necessary?

I think when we take precautions, we should ask what we are taking precautions against on a practical level, rather than just invoking some spectre of 'cybercrime' or 'online bullying'. Paradoxically, you'll probably be safer than if you bump your threat level to 'high' over some nebulous fear.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: PastryGoddess on September 18, 2013, 08:30:17 AM
OP took all of the steps provided by the organization to maintain her privacy and they went ahead and violated it anyway. 

It frustrates me to no end to see people blithely dismiss privacy concerns as being over blown or no big deal.  That's not for you to decide.  People have all sorts of reasons to maintain their privacy.  What's important is that those wishes are honored.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Bexx27 on September 18, 2013, 08:57:14 AM
I agree with Teenyweeny. My viewpoint on this topic is colored by the fact that I work on a longitudinal research study which requires contacting participants with whom we last spoke years ago. When the contact information they've provided is no longer valid, we search the internet for new phone numbers and addresses. If you know where and how to search, it's possible to find an incredible amount of information through public records. We often receive phone calls from people demanding to know how we got their unlisted, private cell phone numbers and we simply apologize for bothering them and tell them it's publicly available information. If a fellow volunteer were inclined to use your unlisted phone number for nefarious purposes, chances are they could do so without any help from an indiscreet volunteer coordinator.

That said, it definitely wasn't right to distribute your contact information without permission. You'd be justified in complaining to the volunteer coordinator and choosing not to volunteer with this organization, but it's important to keep this in perspective and not worry too much about possible risks.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: suzieQ on September 18, 2013, 09:49:24 AM
I can think of several reasons why people are more protective of their telephone numbers:
  • In the beginning of cell phones, more often than not you paid for incoming calls as well as outgoing calls. You would want to control who had the number to avoid talkative Uncle Bert calling repeatedly and running up your bill.
  • If you carry your cell phone with you, theoretically you can be reached 24/7. The more people have your number, the more likely it is that people will call you while you're out having dinner or otherwise trying to relax. (I know, you can turn it off - but not everyone thinks of that every time.)
  • There are a lot more phone spammers these days.
  • People seem to value others' privacy less, and are more likely to make business calls in the evening on a home number, to expect people to be available 24/7 and be snarky when they are not, to generally trample boundaries that used to be more respected.

I still pay for incoming as well as outgoing calls! Not a whole lot, just $30 per month but I don't want my 1000 minutes used up by another person who may be calling to tell me what a lovely "whatever" I was wearing that day, and do I happen to know the phone number of "other volunteer" because her number wasn't on the list, and on and on and on.
I would not volunteer for this group again, either. And in your shoes, OP, I would drop out of this current volunteer position as well.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 18, 2013, 11:46:10 AM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

A new number is a "simple" solution in your world? Because it would not be for at all! My number is on my resume, its attached to my credit cards and bank accounts, its the alternate contact for my Facebook account, my Dr's have it, friends and family across the country - including being the "out of area contact number" for my family in San Francisco in the event the big earthquake comes - etc. I trust those sources to have my number, but I'd rather it didn't get itself too easily just randomly out there; I have an ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago who is probably not a threat at all, but who after I broke up with him did some low level stalking of me, tried to commit suicide and last I heard became a junkie - yeah I'd rather he not be able to go into a public library and pull up my number. I'm sure my number is searchable if someone really tried pretty hard, but at the moment its not super easily accessible and it is in no way a simple thing for me to change it - it would be days worth of work trying to remember and then contact every source that I want to have my number to have them change it.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 18, 2013, 12:01:30 PM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

A new number is a "simple" solution in your world? Because it would not be for at all! My number is on my resume, its attached to my credit cards and bank accounts, its the alternate contact for my Facebook account, my Dr's have it, friends and family across the country - including being the "out of area contact number" for my family in San Francisco in the event the big earthquake comes - etc. I trust those sources to have my number, but I'd rather it didn't get itself too easily just randomly out there; I have an ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago who is probably not a threat at all, but who after I broke up with him did some low level stalking of me, tried to commit suicide and last I heard became a junkie - yeah I'd rather he not be able to go into a public library and pull up my number. I'm sure my number is searchable if someone really tried pretty hard, but at the moment its not super easily accessible and it is in no way a simple thing for me to change it - it would be days worth of work trying to remember and then contact every source that I want to have my number to have them change it.

I didn't say that it wouldn't be a hassle, but it would be simple. And you have a factor which elevates your risk of getting phone calls from a nut, so you assess risk differently. If you were fleeing an abusive relationship, your risk would be still higher.

However (happily) most people don't have these additional risk factors, so to behave like somebody who does seems like overkill.

I mean, some people have diabetes and need to watch their sugar intake carefully. We should all probably be doing that anyway, right? I mean, too much sugar is bad for you.

But as somebody who does not have diabetes, I don't have to watch my sugar intake as carefully as a diabetic would. I could do that if I wanted to, but it would be a lot of effort to go to for something that carries (for me) a very small amount of risk.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: edgypeanuts on September 18, 2013, 12:44:36 PM

I know it's hard, especially because I'm sure you do want to help these animals, but as you say, you can't actually help over the phone.

I'd give the same stock answer every time, "I'm sorry, but it would be unsafe and unwise for me to attempt a diagnosis over the phone. You should take Fluffy to <local animal hospital>, and get him checked out there. I'd hate to miss something serious because I can't see the animal in front of me."  Make it about the animal's safety, and not your unavailability.

But that sounds very cold hearted, even if it is true.  And therefore it reflect badly on my and my clinic.  Some of these people are my clients, and to them it is "just a quick question" and "they cannot afford to go to the ER"  And couldn't I meet them at the clinic?   

Yes, I have the spine to say no.  But my point is that I shouldn't have to.  It could be something that doesn't require a trip to the ER, general questions about food and behavior, then my not taking the time to talk to them makes me look uncaring and it gets passed around that Dr won't talk to you unless you go to her clinic even for just a question cause all they care about is the money. 

And even if I say no and make it about the animal's safety, I still have had to take time out of my evening with family to handle it, whether I answer the phone when it rings or have to call them back after listening to a long message about how panicked they are and can I please call them back right away?!  And I do tend to answer local numbers I don't recognize as I have a lot of family in the area who could be somewhere and need me.

And sometimes they do get to me and I end up meeting them because I don't want the pet to suffer, etc.  I know that is my own choice, but the point STILL remains, I should not have to get those calls!!  It is not up to anyone else to give out my number  like that. 
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 18, 2013, 12:51:58 PM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

A new number is a "simple" solution in your world? Because it would not be for at all! My number is on my resume, its attached to my credit cards and bank accounts, its the alternate contact for my Facebook account, my Dr's have it, friends and family across the country - including being the "out of area contact number" for my family in San Francisco in the event the big earthquake comes - etc. I trust those sources to have my number, but I'd rather it didn't get itself too easily just randomly out there; I have an ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago who is probably not a threat at all, but who after I broke up with him did some low level stalking of me, tried to commit suicide and last I heard became a junkie - yeah I'd rather he not be able to go into a public library and pull up my number. I'm sure my number is searchable if someone really tried pretty hard, but at the moment its not super easily accessible and it is in no way a simple thing for me to change it - it would be days worth of work trying to remember and then contact every source that I want to have my number to have them change it.

I didn't say that it wouldn't be a hassle, but it would be simple. And you have a factor which elevates your risk of getting phone calls from a nut, so you assess risk differently. If you were fleeing an abusive relationship, your risk would be still higher.

However (happily) most people don't have these additional risk factors, so to behave like somebody who does seems like overkill.

I mean, some people have diabetes and need to watch their sugar intake carefully. We should all probably be doing that anyway, right? I mean, too much sugar is bad for you.

But as somebody who does not have diabetes, I don't have to watch my sugar intake as carefully as a diabetic would. I could do that if I wanted to, but it would be a lot of effort to go to for something that carries (for me) a very small amount of risk.

First off all I don't understand how something that is admittedly a hassle is also simple. its not simple, its a hassle.

Second, how an you say most people don't have the same risk I have? Do you know the fate of every single person you went to high school with, or ever dated, or worked with, or lived near? You could just as easily have a now-junkie-but-then-reasonable person in your past as well. Just because I know of mine, doesn't mean that plenty of other people don't also have the same situation and would rather their phone number, that they pay for, that is linked to dozens upon dozens of legitimate and far reaching sources, not be let loose for just anyone to have randomly.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 18, 2013, 01:02:16 PM

I know it's hard, especially because I'm sure you do want to help these animals, but as you say, you can't actually help over the phone.

I'd give the same stock answer every time, "I'm sorry, but it would be unsafe and unwise for me to attempt a diagnosis over the phone. You should take Fluffy to <local animal hospital>, and get him checked out there. I'd hate to miss something serious because I can't see the animal in front of me."  Make it about the animal's safety, and not your unavailability.

But that sounds very cold hearted, even if it is true.  And therefore it reflect badly on my and my clinic.  Some of these people are my clients, and to them it is "just a quick question" and "they cannot afford to go to the ER"  And couldn't I meet them at the clinic?   

Yes, I have the spine to say no.  But my point is that I shouldn't have to.  It could be something that doesn't require a trip to the ER, general questions about food and behavior, then my not taking the time to talk to them makes me look uncaring and it gets passed around that Dr won't talk to you unless you go to her clinic even for just a question cause all they care about is the money. 

And even if I say no and make it about the animal's safety, I still have had to take time out of my evening with family to handle it, whether I answer the phone when it rings or have to call them back after listening to a long message about how panicked they are and can I please call them back right away?!  And I do tend to answer local numbers I don't recognize as I have a lot of family in the area who could be somewhere and need me.

And sometimes they do get to me and I end up meeting them because I don't want the pet to suffer, etc.  I know that is my own choice, but the point STILL remains, I should not have to get those calls!!  It is not up to anyone else to give out my number  like that.

Well, the thing is that unless you would be willing to go to the clinic, then you can't help the caller. And if the pet doesn't need that kind of immediate attention,  then it's not an emergency and can wait until your normal business hours.

"I'm sure you'll understand that I only deal with emergencies when I'm off duty. If you call my office at x time, I'll be happy to help you then."

In any case, your profession has put you at greater risk of nuisance calls, so again, you have more reason than the aversge person to guard your number carefully. For people without much risk, as I say, it seems silly to me.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ellebelle on September 18, 2013, 05:51:22 PM
OP, Is the volunteer coordinator who sent out the list a staff of the college? or just volunteer staff? did they pull your information from the college's database or from a from you filled out?

If they do not work for the College and if the didn't pull this info from the college database, they would have no way of knowing your information was listed as private.

If they, however, work for the college, AND if they pulled your data from the college database not from a seperate application you submitted, then you really need to talk to your Registrar or who ever manages FERPA at your college.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Eeep! on September 18, 2013, 05:55:45 PM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

A new number is a "simple" solution in your world? Because it would not be for at all! My number is on my resume, its attached to my credit cards and bank accounts, its the alternate contact for my Facebook account, my Dr's have it, friends and family across the country - including being the "out of area contact number" for my family in San Francisco in the event the big earthquake comes - etc. I trust those sources to have my number, but I'd rather it didn't get itself too easily just randomly out there; I have an ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago who is probably not a threat at all, but who after I broke up with him did some low level stalking of me, tried to commit suicide and last I heard became a junkie - yeah I'd rather he not be able to go into a public library and pull up my number. I'm sure my number is searchable if someone really tried pretty hard, but at the moment its not super easily accessible and it is in no way a simple thing for me to change it - it would be days worth of work trying to remember and then contact every source that I want to have my number to have them change it.

I didn't say that it wouldn't be a hassle, but it would be simple. And you have a factor which elevates your risk of getting phone calls from a nut, so you assess risk differently. If you were fleeing an abusive relationship, your risk would be still higher.

However (happily) most people don't have these additional risk factors, so to behave like somebody who does seems like overkill.

I mean, some people have diabetes and need to watch their sugar intake carefully. We should all probably be doing that anyway, right? I mean, too much sugar is bad for you.

But as somebody who does not have diabetes, I don't have to watch my sugar intake as carefully as a diabetic would. I could do that if I wanted to, but it would be a lot of effort to go to for something that carries (for me) a very small amount of risk.

First off all I don't understand how something that is admittedly a hassle is also simple. its not simple, its a hassle.

Second, how an you say most people don't have the same risk I have? Do you know the fate of every single person you went to high school with, or ever dated, or worked with, or lived near? You could just as easily have a now-junkie-but-then-reasonable person in your past as well. Just because I know of mine, doesn't mean that plenty of other people don't also have the same situation and would rather their phone number, that they pay for, that is linked to dozens upon dozens of legitimate and far reaching sources, not be let loose for just anyone to have randomly.

Not to mention the fact that the OP has clearly gone through a great deal of trouble using all the channels available to her to keep her information private.  Perhaps this is exactly because of one of these situations.  So she has already gone through all of the "hassle" to get to where she is.  (Not saying that is the case, but we don't know and it is a possibility.)

Also Teenweeny, I'm not sure where you get the idea that it is a simple thing to straighten out identity theft.  Perhaps it is in straightforward instances where someone just took your credit card number.  But true identify theft can be something that torments the victim for years and years and years.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Gogi on September 18, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
edgypeanuts, I don’t see the situations you’ve described above as being at all correlative to what the OP mentioned. This:

Quote
I have had people call my relatives and ask to talk to me cause their animal is sick and they don't trust their vet or want me to tell them if they actually have to take them to the emergency clinic or not.

And then this:
 
Quote
Some of these people are my clients…

What are you saying? That your relatives are giving out your phone number to people, some of whom are clients and some who are not but who want advice or reassurance? If so, tell your relatives to stop doing that. As Teenyweeny correctly pointed out:

Quote
Well, the thing is that unless you would be willing to go to the clinic, then you can't help the caller. And if the pet doesn't need that kind of immediate attention, then it's not an emergency and can wait until your normal business hours.

"I'm sure you'll understand that I only deal with emergencies when I'm off duty. If you call my office at x time, I'll be happy to help you then."

In any case, your profession has put you at greater risk of nuisance calls (snipped) …

Excellent point.


Quote
You shouln't have to take steps. Especially if you made a choice not to have your number out there and someone disregarded your privacy.

Again, it may have been disregarded, not with malice but in simple error.  There have been multiple variations of “she shouldn’t have to” and “why should someone be inconvenienced” posted here. Stuff happens. Sometimes people make mistakes and we are inconvenienced. My favorite gas station has a designated entrance and exit – if you leave by way of the entrance you find yourself in heavy 1-way traffic. Today a driver in an oversized SUV blocked the exit and 6 of us had to leave by way of the entrance. Was it annoying? Yup. Dangerous?  Perhaps. But nothing bad happened. Just one of Life’s little annoyances.

Regarding FERPA. I went to the gov site to see exactly how FERPA is applied. The full site link is at the end for the curious but this part seemed relevant to the discussion:

Quote
Another exception permits a school to non-consensually disclose personally identifiable information from a student's education records when such information has been appropriately designated as directory information. "Directory information" is defined as information contained in the education records of a student that would not generally be considered harmful or an invasion of privacy if disclosed. Directory information could include information such as the student's name, address, e-mail address, telephone listing, photograph, date and place of birth, major field of study, participation in officially recognized activities and sports, weight and height of members of athletic teams, dates of attendance, degrees and awards received, the most recent previous educational agency or institution attended, grade level or year (such as freshman or junior), and enrollment status (undergraduate or graduate; full-time or part-time).

A school may disclose directory information without consent if it has given public notice of the types of information it has designated as directory information, the eligible student's right to restrict the disclosure of such information, and the period of time within which an eligible student has to notify the school that he or she does not want any or all of those types of information designated as directory information. Also, FERPA does not require a school to notify eligible students individually of the types of information it has designated as directory information. Rather, the school may provide this notice by any means likely to inform eligible students of the types of information it has designated as directory information.
 

I would imagine that the OP’s info being given to fellow volunteers on a school project would fall within this description. And yes, the OP says that she did request her info not be made public. Maybe someone in the Registrar’s Office messed up. Maybe the OP misunderstood exactly what would be protected and to what degree.  Maybe, as ellebelle noted, the AFP coordinator did not have access to whatever paperwork designated the OP’s info as private. Who knows?



http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/students.html
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: edgypeanuts on September 19, 2013, 12:07:28 AM
edgypeanuts, I don’t see the situations you’ve described above as being at all correlative to what the OP mentioned. I was pointing out that I volunteer with a group and if my info was given to all the other volunteers it would make things difficult for me and I would probably not volunteer with them again.  That seems to be very correlative to me.  I also was answering the post I quoted that stated: 
But I truly do not understand how a phone number released to fellow volunteers could be harmful. So this is a genuine question - please explain! And I don't mean, "If she doesn't want her number shared, then she has that right!" I know that. But why? What could happen? Are you afraid of sales calls from the other volunteers? A name and a phone number, as far as I can understand, are all that are shared. What is the *worst* that could happen, in your wildest imagination? I don't understand, truly and honestly.

What are you saying? That your relatives are giving out your phone number to people, some of whom are clients and some who are not but who want advice or reassurance? If so, tell your relatives to stop doing that. No.  Those quotes were in 2 different places.  People are NOT getting my number from my relatives, they are CALLING my relatives.  ie- Hey, Greg, can you please ask your wife if blah blah blah?  These are mostly not my clients but people who know my relatives and what I do.  I mentioned it only cause it does happen and I can only imagine how much worse it would be if everyone involved with an animal charity had my phone number. 

The quote about some of them being my clients refers to the group I volunteer with and why I would not want them to all have my number. 

As Teenyweeny correctly pointed out:
Quote
Well, the thing is that unless you would be willing to go to the clinic, then you can't help the caller. Unless they just want advice and to them it is a 2 second question but to me it is a 7 minute answer and an interruption.  And if the pet doesn't need that kind of immediate attention, then it's not an emergency and can wait until your normal business hours. Except that a spouse is going to kill the pet if this behavior doesn't stop and they cannot afford to come in during business hours.  I have even been told, "well I didn't want to bother you at work..."  As if they are doing me a favor. 

"I'm sure you'll understand that I only deal with emergencies when I'm off duty. If you call my office at x time, I'll be happy to help you then."unfortunately my point was that they DON'T understand that.  Many on this thread have questioned why so much privacy and what the big deal is with 100-200 other volunteers having your phone number.  I am pointing out why. 

In any case, your profession has put you at greater risk of nuisance calls (snipped) …
In my case yes, but I am willing to bet the same is true for lots of other people.  House is flooding from a leak somewhere and you remember that the other guy on your volunteer list is a plumber?  Maybe give him a quick call and see if he can help you out.  He can say no, but the whole point was that he has a business number for a reason.

You can give all sorts of reasons why it is not a big deal, but I have the right to be away from work without having to deal with clients, even if dealing with them means sending them away.   
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Mel the Redcap on September 19, 2013, 03:37:24 AM
In any case, your profession has put you at greater risk of nuisance calls, so again, you have more reason than the aversge person to guard your number carefully. For people without much risk, as I say, it seems silly to me.

 >:(

It's very nice that you're in a position where you can say that. You've never experienced any of the negative things that can happen when your contact details get into the wrong hands. I imagine you've never had to deal with completely changing your main contact methods in a hurry, or else you had an incredibly easy time of it since you're able to dismiss it as 'simple'. That's really, really nice... for you. I honestly hope you never have to learn differently.

The OP isn't in that position. She has a reason for wanting her number to be kept private and she's taken all the steps that should have kept it private - it's unlisted, she's jumped through the hoops to keep it secret at this organisation, and she signed up for this volunteering gig through the system that is SUPPOSED to have her number flagged as 'not to be released' - and for whatever reason, it hasn't worked. Either the system didn't flag it, in which case this needs to be reported so that the system can be fixed (and the list should be withdrawn, and there should be a sincere apology), or the system DID flag it but the coordinator ignored that, in which case oh boy we have a bigger problem here.

This is why the release of personal information HAS to be opt-in, if you ask me. I have no particular reason for having my phone number secret, but I still don't want it out there. When I was at uni, we had anonymised ways of contacting other students, so the guy who wanted to borrow my lecture notes could ask me - good - but if he was a little off kilter and thought I was stunningly beautiful and should be his girlfriend and sure I'd said no but he KNEW I'd change my mind if he just followed me around town for weeks and asked me out three times a day, he didn't have anything that could lead to him getting my home number or address. No, that is not a random example. I had absolutely no reason to expect that giving my phone number or home e-mail out to my classmates might be a bad idea, and they certainly had legitimate reasons to need to contact me, so by your reasoning it would have 'seemed silly' to keep my details secret. The university protected my personal information anyway, and oh boy was it ever a good thing they did!

Finally, Teenyweeny, I have to take issue with your repeated dismissal of other people's reasons for wanting to protect their personal contact details. In the end, it doesn't matter whether or not they have a reason that seems 'good enough' to warrant doing so - if they want to keep their phone number etcetera private, they should be able to and everyone else should respect their wishes... no matter how 'silly' it seems.

Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 04:12:28 AM
In any case, your profession has put you at greater risk of nuisance calls, so again, you have more reason than the aversge person to guard your number carefully. For people without much risk, as I say, it seems silly to me.

 >:(

It's very nice that you're in a position where you can say that. You've never experienced any of the negative things that can happen when your contact details get into the wrong hands. I imagine you've never had to deal with completely changing your main contact methods in a hurry, or else you had an incredibly easy time of it since you're able to dismiss it as 'simple'. That's really, really nice... for you. I honestly hope you never have to learn differently.

The OP isn't in that position. She has a reason for wanting her number to be kept private and she's taken all the steps that should have kept it private - it's unlisted, she's jumped through the hoops to keep it secret at this organisation, and she signed up for this volunteering gig through the system that is SUPPOSED to have her number flagged as 'not to be released' - and for whatever reason, it hasn't worked. Either the system didn't flag it, in which case this needs to be reported so that the system can be fixed (and the list should be withdrawn, and there should be a sincere apology), or the system DID flag it but the coordinator ignored that, in which case oh boy we have a bigger problem here.

This is why the release of personal information HAS to be opt-in, if you ask me. I have no particular reason for having my phone number secret, but I still don't want it out there. When I was at uni, we had anonymised ways of contacting other students, so the guy who wanted to borrow my lecture notes could ask me - good - but if he was a little off kilter and thought I was stunningly beautiful and should be his girlfriend and sure I'd said no but he KNEW I'd change my mind if he just followed me around town for weeks and asked me out three times a day, he didn't have anything that could lead to him getting my home number or address. No, that is not a random example. I had absolutely no reason to expect that giving my phone number or home e-mail out to my classmates might be a bad idea, and they certainly had legitimate reasons to need to contact me, so by your reasoning it would have 'seemed silly' to keep my details secret. The university protected my personal information anyway, and oh boy was it ever a good thing they did!

I'm truly sorry that that happened to you, it sounds scary! But thankfully, it's an unlikely thing to happen to anybody. Just like I'm truly sorry for the victims of shark attacks, but I still think that buying a shark-proof swimsuit would be overkill.

Finally, Teenyweeny, I have to take issue with your repeated dismissal of other people's reasons for wanting to protect their personal contact details. In the end, it doesn't matter whether or not they have a reason that seems 'good enough' to warrant doing so - if they want to keep their phone number etcetera private, they should be able to and everyone else should respect their wishes... no matter how 'silly' it seems.

Of course, if somebody requests that their details should not be shared, then that request should be honoured. I absolutely was not advocating an attitude of, "Sue doesn't want me to give out her phone number, but I think she's silly so I'll do it anyway". That would be a very rude thing to do.

I am merely saying that I don't consider phone number sharing to be inherently risky (absent certain factors that would elevate risk for certain people). So if somebody didn't ask me not to share their details, and the numbers were being given out for professional/practical reasons (i.e. not to that guy at the bar who thinks my friend is hot and please, can he have her number?), I would see no reason not to share that information.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: camlan on September 19, 2013, 06:24:26 AM


I'm truly sorry that that happened to you, it sounds scary! But thankfully, it's an unlikely thing to happen to anybody. Just like I'm truly sorry for the victims of shark attacks, but I still think that buying a shark-proof swimsuit would be overkill.

Of course, if somebody requests that their details should not be shared, then that request should be honoured. I absolutely was not advocating an attitude of, "Sue doesn't want me to give out her phone number, but I think she's silly so I'll do it anyway". That would be a very rude thing to do.

I am merely saying that I don't consider phone number sharing to be inherently risky (absent certain factors that would elevate risk for certain people). So if somebody didn't ask me not to share their details, and the numbers were being given out for professional/practical reasons (i.e. not to that guy at the bar who thinks my friend is hot and please, can he have her number?), I would see no reason not to share that information.

You might want to look up some statistics on stalking before you claim that it is unlikely to happen to anybody. I've been stalked, Mel the Redcap has been stalked, my BFF has been stalked. It might not be as rare a behavior as you think. And it's *scary*.

In general, you will never really know why someone is asking for a third party's address or phone number or email. Could be a great business contact, could be a ex out for revenge. People lie to get this sort of information and you can never really be sure about their true intentions.

My general rule is never to give out contact information. What I do instead is ask the person who wants the info for *their* phone number or email address. Then I get in touch with the third party and give them the contact information. That way, they get to decide if they want to get in touch or not.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: daen on September 19, 2013, 06:34:15 AM


I'm truly sorry that that happened to you, it sounds scary! But thankfully, it's an unlikely thing to happen to anybody. Just like I'm truly sorry for the victims of shark attacks, but I still think that buying a shark-proof swimsuit would be overkill.

Of course, if somebody requests that their details should not be shared, then that request should be honoured. I absolutely was not advocating an attitude of, "Sue doesn't want me to give out her phone number, but I think she's silly so I'll do it anyway". That would be a very rude thing to do.

I am merely saying that I don't consider phone number sharing to be inherently risky (absent certain factors that would elevate risk for certain people). So if somebody didn't ask me not to share their details, and the numbers were being given out for professional/practical reasons (i.e. not to that guy at the bar who thinks my friend is hot and please, can he have her number?), I would see no reason not to share that information.

You might want to look up some statistics on stalking before you claim that it is unlikely to happen to anybody. I've been stalked, Mel the Redcap has been stalked, my BFF has been stalked. It might not be as rare a behavior as you think. And it's *scary*.

In general, you will never really know why someone is asking for a third party's address or phone number or email. Could be a great business contact, could be a ex out for revenge. People lie to get this sort of information and you can never really be sure about their true intentions.

My general rule is never to give out contact information. What I do instead is ask the person who wants the info for *their* phone number or email address. Then I get in touch with the third party and give them the contact information. That way, they get to decide if they want to get in touch or not.

Posting to agree with camlan - stalking is less rare than you might think. Lesser levels of harassment, unwanted attention, calls at awkward hours, and that sort of thing are even more prevalent.  (I've been what I call "lightly stalked" twice - I was much more annoyed than frightened, but I was repeatedly followed and my personal bubble invaded by men who were not welcome - and that included one of them watching me sleep.)
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 06:44:05 AM
You might want to look up some statistics on stalking before you claim that it is unlikely to happen to anybody. I've been stalked, Mel the Redcap has been stalked, my BFF has been stalked. It might not be as rare a behavior as you think. And it's *scary*.

It's my understanding that most victims are stalked by people who you would happily share details with, such as ex-partners, ex-friends and the like. The only victim of stalking I know of IRL was stalked by an ex-boyfriend, not by somebody who got hold of her phone number through a volunteer contact form.

That's what I was trying to say: stalking itself may be common, but being stalked by somebody who you don't even know, or who you know absolutely marginally, is very rare.

There are some stats here (http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/crime-information-and-statistics/stalking), which I did a little bit of number crunching on, and found that 0.02% of women and 0.01% of men will be stalked by a stranger in their lifetime. And the percentage of those people whose stalkers began stalking them because they got their personal information from a shared list of contact details will be even lower.

If you look at the per year stats, your risk (as a woman) of being stalked by a stranger is about a tenth of that (so 0.002%, which is on a par with the risk of being struck by lightning on an average year in the UK (not famed for its dramatic thunderstorms :) ).

Yes, it's super-scary for those it happens to, but I can see why it doesn't pop into people's heads as something that they need to guard against when considering whether or not to let volunteers have each other's numbers.


Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 06:56:24 AM
You might want to look up some statistics on stalking before you claim that it is unlikely to happen to anybody. I've been stalked, Mel the Redcap has been stalked, my BFF has been stalked. It might not be as rare a behavior as you think. And it's *scary*.

It's my understanding that most victims are stalked by people who you would happily share details with, such as ex-partners, ex-friends and the like. The only victim of stalking I know of IRL was stalked by an ex-boyfriend, not by somebody who got hold of her phone number through a volunteer contact form.

That's what I was trying to say: stalking itself may be common, but being stalked by somebody who you don't even know, or who you know absolutely marginally, is very rare.

There are some stats here (http://www.victimsofcrime.org/library/crime-information-and-statistics/stalking), which I did a little bit of number crunching on, and found that 0.02% of women and 0.01% of men will be stalked by a stranger in their lifetime. And the percentage of those people whose stalkers began stalking them because they got their personal information from a shared list of contact details will be even lower.

If you look at the per year stats, your risk (as a woman) of being stalked by a stranger is about a tenth of that (so 0.002%, which is on a par with the risk of being struck by lightning on an average year in the UK (not famed for its dramatic thunderstorms :) ).

Yes, it's super-scary for those it happens to, but I can see why it doesn't pop into people's heads as something that they need to guard against when considering whether or not to let volunteers have each other's numbers.

It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 07:03:32 AM
It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.

See, I just disagree with the bolded. I absolutely agree that people shouldn't share information when they have been asked not to. That's a given.

But, I also think that part of a coordinator's job is to make sure that volunteers can reach each other if they need to. You never know when somebody may need information, or to change duties, or whatever. Sure, everybody could ring the coordinator, who could then act as an intermediary, but a) the coordinator may not always be available when needed and b) s/he presumably has other duties to perform, and a minimum of three phone calls every time two individuals need to be in contact would take up a lot of time (the coordinator needs to receive the call from person A, then call person B, then call person A back).

A list of contacts is much easier, and more convenient, although of course if somebody asks to be excluded, they should be.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: MariaE on September 19, 2013, 07:04:41 AM
Yes, it's super-scary for those it happens to, but I can see why it doesn't pop into people's heads as something that they need to guard against when considering whether or not to let volunteers have each other's numbers.

It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.

Teenyweeny has stated several times that what happened in Snowdragon's situation was wrong. All she's saying that if somebody doesn't take those steps, she would not automatically assume that that person wanted his or her phone number kept private. It's moved from the specific to the general.

In that regard I agree with her - what happened to Snowdragon was wrong and definitely a big deal. But due to my personal experiences and my personal expectations, I would expect phone numbers (or emails) to be distributed among fellow volunteers, and wouldn't stop to ask first.

Even after this thread I still wouldn't, because as I mentioned earlier, in Denmark white papers have gone online and it's opt-out, not opt-in - anybody can look up my personal cell and my landline if they know my full name - so even if I didn't hand out contact information, any volunteer could just go online and get it anyway.

(Teenyweeny posted while I was writing this - the rest of my post still stands).
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 07:09:08 AM
It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.

See, I just disagree with the bolded. I absolutely agree that people shouldn't share information when they have been asked not to. That's a given.

But, I also think that part of a coordinator's job is to make sure that volunteers can reach each other if they need to. You never know when somebody may need information, or to change duties, or whatever. Sure, everybody could ring the coordinator, who could then act as an intermediary, but a) the coordinator may not always be available when needed and b) s/he presumably has other duties to perform, and a minimum of three phone calls every time two individuals need to be in contact would take up a lot of time (the coordinator needs to receive the call from person A, then call person B, then call person A back).

A list of contacts is much easier, and more convenient, although of course if somebody asks to be excluded, they should be.

Snowdragon DID ask for her unlisted telephone number not be given out. From her No. 10 post: I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 07:10:23 AM
It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.

See, I just disagree with the bolded. I absolutely agree that people shouldn't share information when they have been asked not to. That's a given.

But, I also think that part of a coordinator's job is to make sure that volunteers can reach each other if they need to. You never know when somebody may need information, or to change duties, or whatever. Sure, everybody could ring the coordinator, who could then act as an intermediary, but a) the coordinator may not always be available when needed and b) s/he presumably has other duties to perform, and a minimum of three phone calls every time two individuals need to be in contact would take up a lot of time (the coordinator needs to receive the call from person A, then call person B, then call person A back).

A list of contacts is much easier, and more convenient, although of course if somebody asks to be excluded, they should be.

Snowdragon DID ask for her unlisted telephone number not be given out. From her No. 10 post: I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes.

I know that. I was talking more generally, in response to the posters who think that contact sharing is never OK, by default.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 07:13:56 AM
It's not the coordinator's place to give out a volunteer's telephone number to anyone. According to her post at No. 10, Snowdragon had taken several steps to keep her information private, yet the coordinator refused to follow her wishes and gave out her unlisted number to between 200 and 300 people.

See, I just disagree with the bolded. I absolutely agree that people shouldn't share information when they have been asked not to. That's a given.

But, I also think that part of a coordinator's job is to make sure that volunteers can reach each other if they need to. You never know when somebody may need information, or to change duties, or whatever. Sure, everybody could ring the coordinator, who could then act as an intermediary, but a) the coordinator may not always be available when needed and b) s/he presumably has other duties to perform, and a minimum of three phone calls every time two individuals need to be in contact would take up a lot of time (the coordinator needs to receive the call from person A, then call person B, then call person A back).

A list of contacts is much easier, and more convenient, although of course if somebody asks to be excluded, they should be.

Snowdragon DID ask for her unlisted telephone number not be given out. From her No. 10 post: I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes.

I know that. I was talking more generally, in response to the posters who think that contact sharing is never OK, by default.

It's not okay. If I want someone to have my information, I'll give it to her or him if she or he asks me. If that person asks someone else for it, the person being asked can contact me first. I don't want my information floating around out there. If I did, I wouldn't take the step, and pay the fee, to have an unlisted phone number.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wildkitty on September 19, 2013, 07:53:21 AM
I take great offense to the attitude that it's no big deal to share others contact info! I was the victim of stalking TWICE as a late teenager. Both were customers at the store where I worked. Small town and idiot boss that thought it was no big deal to reveal my last name to a couple of creeps who were at least twice my age. I am shocked that someone would continue to wave off the privacy concerns of others just because you haven't had the horrible experience of having your phone number in the wrong hands. Identity theft is simple to fix? Yeah, good luck with that one.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 07:59:24 AM
I take great offense to the attitude that it's no big deal to share others contact info! I was the victim of stalking TWICE as a late teenager. Both were customers at the store where I worked. Small town and idiot boss that thought it was no big deal to reveal my last name to a couple of creeps who were at least twice my age. I am shocked that someone would continue to wave off the privacy concerns of others just because you haven't had the horrible experience of having your phone number in the wrong hands. Identity theft is simple to fix? Yeah, good luck with that one.

I very sorry that that happened to you, but that is palpably a different thing to the scenario I'm talking about. If I was working somewhere, and some guy asked for info about my colleague, I wouldn't give it either! Your boss was an idiot, that's for sure.

I also would not "wave off" somebody's privacy concerns. I've said that repeatedly. What I am attempting to explain is that unless somebody told me, I wouldn't assume that they even had those concerns.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wildkitty on September 19, 2013, 08:10:03 AM
That's the whole point! You should not be giving out anyone's contact info without their express permission. Your logic is backwards. You're saying it's okay to give out contact info unless you were told not to. In actuality you should only give out contact info if you have been given permission in advance.  Look at it this way, say your coworker had her lunch sitting on her desk. She gets called away for a moment and another coworker comes to you and asks if he can have other coworker's sandwich. Would you give it to him? If your answer is "No, of course not!" than why would you give out any other property? My contact info is my property and not yours to give out at will.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 08:15:54 AM
As an aside, I think part of the reason that the advice of  'guard your info if you don't want to be stalked' really bugs me is that it completely ignores the main reason that people get stalked, which is that they had the misfortune to get involved with somebody who later turned out to be a nut.

It's like the rape prevention advice which works great if you are talking about protecting against a stranger, but is less relevant for the majority of victims, who know their attacker. It sidesteps the larger issue to focus on the nebulous bogeyman, because it's easy to tell women not to give out their phone numbers, but it's hard to create a culture in which persistence is not viewed as 'romantic', and in which 'no, go away' is respected.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 08:19:07 AM
That's the whole point! You should not be giving out anyone's contact info without their express permission. Your logic is backwards. You're saying it's okay to give out contact info unless you were told not to. In actuality you should only give out contact info if you have been given permission in advance.  Look at it this way, say your coworker had her lunch sitting on her desk. She gets called away for a moment and another coworker comes to you and asks if he can have other coworker's sandwich. Would you give it to him? If your answer is "No, of course not!" than why would you give out any other property? My contact info is my property and not yours to give out at will.

That's a flawed comparison. If I give away Jane's sandwich, she has a 100% risk of no sandwich. If I give Jane's number to Bob so that he can arrange the office Christmas dinner, there's a much smaller risk that Bob will turn out to be a creepy nutter.

Besides which, being given to other people is not the purpose of Jane's sandwich. It is exactly the purpose of Jane's phone number.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wildkitty on September 19, 2013, 08:23:36 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wildkitty on September 19, 2013, 08:28:13 AM
That's the whole point! You should not be giving out anyone's contact info without their express permission. Your logic is backwards. You're saying it's okay to give out contact info unless you were told not to. In actuality you should only give out contact info if you have been given permission in advance.  Look at it this way, say your coworker had her lunch sitting on her desk. She gets called away for a moment and another coworker comes to you and asks if he can have other coworker's sandwich. Would you give it to him? If your answer is "No, of course not!" than why would you give out any other property? My contact info is my property and not yours to give out at will.

That's a flawed comparison. If I give away Jane's sandwich, she has a 100% risk of no sandwich. If I give Jane's number to Bob so that he can arrange the office Christmas dinner, there's a much smaller risk that Bob will turn out to be a creepy nutter.

Besides which, being given to other people is not the purpose of Jane's sandwich. It is exactly the purpose of Jane's phone number.

Again, you're missing the point. The very fact is that it is not your sandwich to give and it is not your phone number to give. Simple as that. You don't get to decide who has access to someone else's belongings.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 08:35:54 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Psychopoesie on September 19, 2013, 08:53:53 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

I don't understand why any of my personal information (including my phone number) can be something that's meant to be shared without my permission.

How does the person sharing it (without my consent) know that I'd make the same choice about who gets that information (assuming that matters)?

How does the person know what risks or issues the release of that information may cause me personally?
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 08:58:07 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

I don't understand why any of my personal information (including my phone number) can be something that's meant to be shared without my permission.

How does the person sharing it (without my consent) know that I'd make the same choice about who gets that information (assuming that matters)?

How does the person know what risks or issues the release of that information may cause me personally?

They don't, unless you tell them. I'm just saying, if you give a group coordinator your number (or you know that they will be able to access it), then I think that the onus is on you to say, "please don't share my details", because clearly not-sharing is not everybody's default setting. That request was not honoured in the OP's case, and I am not excusing that.

That goes double if you have additional safety concerns that elevate your risk of negative consequences.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Mel the Redcap on September 19, 2013, 09:00:30 AM
It does not matter how rare stalking is, or how likely it is that giving someone's details out will cause problems, or anything about anyone's personal situation.

It's very simple. If you are asked for someone's contact details, and you don't know whether or not they would be OK with them being shared, there are four possible outcomes.

Either you share them, and it turns out that they're OK with the idea - this is fine.
Or you share them, and they're NOT OK with the idea - this is BAD, and you can't take back the sharing. You cannot fix this.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would have been OK with it - this is fine, you or they can still contact the person who wanted to get hold of them.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would NOT have been OK with it - this is fine, you have protected them.

The ONLY way you can get a bad result is if you share someone else's details without first ascertaining whether or not they are happy with this. So don't! Whether you would be fine with it yourself or not, whether you think there's a danger or not, whether you've seen them giving their details to other people or not, it doesn't matter - protecting their personal details should be the default!

And yes, phone numbers are meant to be shared... WITH PEOPLE THE OWNER IS HAPPY COMMUNICATING WITH, and nobody else.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 09:01:22 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

Other than your opinion, do you have any kind of authority to back up this assertion?
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:02:34 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

Other than your opinion, do you have any kind of authority to back up this assertion?

No, that's why I included the words 'to me'.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: MariaE on September 19, 2013, 09:04:47 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

Other than your opinion, do you have any kind of authority to back up this assertion?

How about the fact that in some countries they can be looked up on the internet? And that this information is definitely opt-out rather than opt-in?
(I have no clue about the US, but I know this to be the case in both Denmark and New Zealand, so please for the sake of this argument just assume you're in Denmark :) )
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:11:21 AM
It does not matter how rare stalking is, or how likely it is that giving someone's details out will cause problems, or anything about anyone's personal situation.

It's very simple. If you are asked for someone's contact details, and you don't know whether or not they would be OK with them being shared, there are four possible outcomes.

Either you share them, and it turns out that they're OK with the idea - this is fine.
Or you share them, and they're NOT OK with the idea - this is BAD, and you can't take back the sharing. You cannot fix this.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would have been OK with it - this is fine, you or they can still contact the person who wanted to get hold of them.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would NOT have been OK with it - this is fine, you have protected them.

The ONLY way you can get a bad result is if you share someone else's details without first ascertaining whether or not they are happy with this. So don't! Whether you would be fine with it yourself or not, whether you think there's a danger or not, whether you've seen them giving their details to other people or not, it doesn't matter - protecting their personal details should be the default!

And yes, phone numbers are meant to be shared... WITH PEOPLE THE OWNER IS HAPPY COMMUNICATING WITH, and nobody else.

Mel, your post made me think of another distinction that I realise that I haven't drawn clearly enough.

I view giving out a list of contacts and being asked for a specific person's details as two things which carry different elements of risk.

If Sue asks me for Jodie's number, I need to be more vigilant, because I am being asked to disclose something. I need to weigh up what I know of Sue, what I know of Jodie's usual practices with her phone number, why Sue is asking for the phone number, and the whole context of the situation. I would definitely be more cautious, because Sue asking for the number from me, and I may not know all of her reasons. 95% of the time (i.e. unless I knew for sure it would be OK), I'd probably ask Jodie first.

When giving out a list of contacts, people are just receiving the list, not asking for anybody's specific details. You are instead risking that somebody within the group might be moved to do bad things with those numbers. I view that as a very different thing. Giving out contact lists is such standard practice for most group projects that I've had experience of, so a person would definitely have to opt out in order to not be included.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 09:13:22 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

Other than your opinion, do you have any kind of authority to back up this assertion?

How about the fact that in some countries they can be looked up on the internet? And that this information is definitely opt-out rather than opt-in?
(I have no clue about the US, but I know this to be the case in both Denmark and New Zealand, so please for the sake of this argument just assume you're in Denmark :) )

I'm in the US so I can assume only how things are done here. Here, you must opt out of your telephone number being listed in either the White Pages and directory assistance. And, you must pay a fee to do it. So, in Snowdragon's case, the release of her number by the coordinator--who had been told not to do it-- made her trouble and expense worth nothing.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Mel the Redcap on September 19, 2013, 09:13:42 AM
It does not matter how rare stalking is, or how likely it is that giving someone's details out will cause problems, or anything about anyone's personal situation.

It's very simple. If you are asked for someone's contact details, and you don't know whether or not they would be OK with them being shared, there are four possible outcomes.

Either you share them, and it turns out that they're OK with the idea - this is fine.
Or you share them, and they're NOT OK with the idea - this is BAD, and you can't take back the sharing. You cannot fix this.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would have been OK with it - this is fine, you or they can still contact the person who wanted to get hold of them.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would NOT have been OK with it - this is fine, you have protected them.

The ONLY way you can get a bad result is if you share someone else's details without first ascertaining whether or not they are happy with this. So don't! Whether you would be fine with it yourself or not, whether you think there's a danger or not, whether you've seen them giving their details to other people or not, it doesn't matter - protecting their personal details should be the default!

And yes, phone numbers are meant to be shared... WITH PEOPLE THE OWNER IS HAPPY COMMUNICATING WITH, and nobody else.

Mel, your post made me think of another distinction that I realise that I haven't drawn clearly enough.

I view giving out a list of contacts and being asked for a specific person's details as two things which carry different elements of risk.

If Sue asks me for Jodie's number, I need to be more vigilant, because I am being asked to disclose something. I need to weigh up what I know of Sue, what I know of Jodie's usual practices with her phone number, why Sue is asking for the phone number, and the whole context of the situation. I would definitely be more cautious, because Sue asking for the number from me, and I may not know all of her reasons. 95% of the time (i.e. unless I knew for sure it would be OK), I'd probably ask Jodie first.

When giving out a list of contacts, people are just receiving the list, not asking for anybody's specific details. You are instead risking that somebody within the group might be moved to do bad things with those numbers. I view that as a very different thing. Giving out contact lists is such standard practice for most group projects that I've had experience of, so a person would definitely have to opt out in order to not be included.

And in Snowdragon's case, she'd opted out very firmly, there was actually no reason why a contact list would be needed, and it was given out anyway. I think we can agree that this was completely wrong. So why are we still arguing? :P
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:21:53 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience.

I've also argued that sharing numbers between a group in general is low risk (for the majority of people), because one can simply not pick up the phone if it's that the calls are annoying. Anything more serious than that is much less likely, to the point where it wouldn't cross my mind if I were the group coordinator.

I guess we disagree about the 'phone number as property' thing, because to me they're a special kind of property, that's meant to be shared.

Other than your opinion, do you have any kind of authority to back up this assertion?

How about the fact that in some countries they can be looked up on the internet? And that this information is definitely opt-out rather than opt-in?
(I have no clue about the US, but I know this to be the case in both Denmark and New Zealand, so please for the sake of this argument just assume you're in Denmark :) )

In the UK, you can just search on http://www.192.com/, and somebody's name will give you their approximate age and address (I think it costs about £1 to get somebody's full address, but their  approx addres is free).  This is true for anybody on the electoral roll, unless you have opted out.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: suzieQ on September 19, 2013, 09:28:58 AM
Perhaps you could imagine this scenario, Teenyweeny. What if a person on Ehell had your personal phone number and decided to post it on a list of other phone numbers on this site. You could be getting hundreds of calls a day from people who want to discuss this thread with you. They are unwanted calls. You didn't sign up to have all these people call you, even though you are a participant on this site and in this thread.
All you wanted to do was to post online, but now you are getting your phone slammed with calls from people you are happy to talk with online but don't necessarily want them eating up your free time/phone minutes/bothering you when you are busy with something else.
And yes, you can choose not to answer the phone, but that doesn't stop the incessant ringing. Turning the phone off means no one you want to talk to can get through to you.

It's a pain in the rear to have your number given out to a lot of people.

As far as stalking goes, I was stalked *over the phone* by some guy when I was a teenager. Had no idea who he was, and he called every day. I would have been much happier if he hadn't gotten my phone number.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:36:28 AM
Perhaps you could imagine this scenario, Teenyweeny. What if a person on Ehell had your personal phone number and decided to post it on a list of other phone numbers on this site. You could be getting hundreds of calls a day from people who want to discuss this thread with you. They are unwanted calls. You didn't sign up to have all these people call you, even though you are a participant on this site and in this thread.
All you wanted to do was to post online, but now you are getting your phone slammed with calls from people you are happy to talk with online but don't necessarily want them eating up your free time/phone minutes/bothering you when you are busy with something else.
And yes, you can choose not to answer the phone, but that doesn't stop the incessant ringing. Turning the phone off means no one you want to talk to can get through to you.

It's a pain in the rear to have your number given out to a lot of people.

As far as stalking goes, I was stalked *over the phone* by some guy when I was a teenager. Had no idea who he was, and he called every day. I would have been much happier if he hadn't gotten my phone number.

Well, that would be unfortunate, but again, that would be much riskier scenario than a volunteer list. That number would be viewable to anybody, not just forum members. A lot different to giving out a contact list to a small group.

And, especially within the context of this thread (why am I getting the feeling that if I did post my number, some people would ring until the battery went flat, just to prove a point), posting my number would be an elevated risk.

I am specifically talking about putting together contact lists. I'm not talking about whether or not it's OK to put somebody else's number on a billboard.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 19, 2013, 09:37:58 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on September 19, 2013, 09:40:02 AM
But you know ahead of time whether it's opt out or opt in, and you make arrangements accordingly.

I don't want my mobile number shared. I've never been stalked and I don't think of myself as being at high risk of being stalked. But I always always always tick the 'no contact' boxes for email and whatever, and even with that, my spam folder is full every day. I don't give my mobile number out unless I must and I still get spam calls. My home phone is unlisted and I still get 'do I want a new boiler' calls, and 'mis-sold pension plan' calls and 'have I ever had debt insurance' calls. Sure, if I volunteer for the tea stall at the local branch fair for the Dinosaur Defence League, the five other women manning the stall may need my number, plus the three overall co-ordinators. Seven thousand national volunteers who are running the regional fairs for all the other branches don't need it and in my opinion have no right to have it.

I'm not afraid that they'll stalk me. I'm afraid they'll sell my details and for the rest of my natural life I'll be swamped in junk mail. You like Dinosaurs! Now rescue a unicorn! You made chocolate cake for them! Make it for us! You can afford to do charity work! You need a financial adviser!

My SMIL went looking for a repairer for a household appliance; they did the repair, did a service, and asked her if she knew anybody else with the same sort of appliance. She did: me. She gave them my phone number. They currently call me once a fortnight asking if I want the service done; I don't. I can't block phone numbers on my landline and I run a business from home so I can't not pick up calls I don't recognise. I am extremely annoyed that she gave out my number in the first place.

And you know, on here, most of us aren't using our real names. (At least, I hope we're not, or the Bad Baby Name websites aren't showing the half of it.) We say that we live in this area or that area, but we don't say 'I'm Susie Cricket and I live at 49 Glamorgan Avenue, Colchester CO1 1AA'. We don't offer our phone numbers to strangers on here. So maybe there are one or two people I'm on personal terms with, and we do share details. Would that make it acceptable for somebody to post my address here, just because she knew it and I hadn't expressly said not to?

You don't need to be afraid of stalkers not to want your number given out at random. You might be, say, a politician. A police officer. A tax inspector. Criminal lawyer. Somebody who makes the final funding decisions for social security cases. Somebody who works for an animal testing lab. Somebody who works for the genetic engineering companies. Somebody who works for a hunt - or somebody who works for an anti-hunting charity. Somebody who works for an armament supplier. Soldier, sailor, RAF officer. Provider of contraceptive care. Social worker in charge of child abuse cases. All pefectly legal, and all good reasons to keep your number circulating only where you know about it.

I've never been a big believer in 'if you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear'.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:42:05 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.

Again, I'm not saying that it's OK to publish a number publically. I'm not about to publish my personal phone book in The Times.

I'm talking about making and sharing a contact list. Yes, Suzie may have cut off her mother and not want her to have her phone number. I doubt Suzie's mother is going to somehow get hold of the Christmas dinner committee contact list.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Bexx27 on September 19, 2013, 09:44:00 AM
It does not matter how rare stalking is, or how likely it is that giving someone's details out will cause problems, or anything about anyone's personal situation.

It's very simple. If you are asked for someone's contact details, and you don't know whether or not they would be OK with them being shared, there are four possible outcomes.

Either you share them, and it turns out that they're OK with the idea - this is fine.
Or you share them, and they're NOT OK with the idea - this is BAD, and you can't take back the sharing. You cannot fix this.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would have been OK with it - this is fine, you or they can still contact the person who wanted to get hold of them.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would NOT have been OK with it - this is fine, you have protected them.

The ONLY way you can get a bad result is if you share someone else's details without first ascertaining whether or not they are happy with this. So don't! Whether you would be fine with it yourself or not, whether you think there's a danger or not, whether you've seen them giving their details to other people or not, it doesn't matter - protecting their personal details should be the default!

And yes, phone numbers are meant to be shared... WITH PEOPLE THE OWNER IS HAPPY COMMUNICATING WITH, and nobody else.

Mel, your post made me think of another distinction that I realise that I haven't drawn clearly enough.

I view giving out a list of contacts and being asked for a specific person's details as two things which carry different elements of risk.

If Sue asks me for Jodie's number, I need to be more vigilant, because I am being asked to disclose something. I need to weigh up what I know of Sue, what I know of Jodie's usual practices with her phone number, why Sue is asking for the phone number, and the whole context of the situation. I would definitely be more cautious, because Sue asking for the number from me, and I may not know all of her reasons. 95% of the time (i.e. unless I knew for sure it would be OK), I'd probably ask Jodie first.

When giving out a list of contacts, people are just receiving the list, not asking for anybody's specific details. You are instead risking that somebody within the group might be moved to do bad things with those numbers. I view that as a very different thing. Giving out contact lists is such standard practice for most group projects that I've had experience of, so a person would definitely have to opt out in order to not be included.

And in Snowdragon's case, she'd opted out very firmly, there was actually no reason why a contact list would be needed, and it was given out anyway. I think we can agree that this was completely wrong. So why are we still arguing? :P

I think you're arguing about 2 different things. Yes, the OP opted out, so the volunteer coordinator was wrong to put her number on the list. I haven't seen anyone in this thread disagree with that.

What I disagree with is the idea that such rosters and directories should be opt-in rather than opt-out by default. I belong to several organizations that distribute contact information. Everyone is included unless they opt out, and it's been my experience that very few people actually opt out. I see nothing at all wrong with this system as long as opt out requests are honored. I put together the member contact list at work and no one has opted out during my 5 years here. If someone did opt out it would be very inconvenient because volunteers need to be able to contact us and each other. (Again, I realize this is not the case in the OP.)

The fact is that if you want to find someone's unlisted number or cell phone number, you can do so fairly easily on the internet. Most people who have their numbers unlisted do so to avoid telemarketers, and having an unlisted number is effective for this purpose. It is not effective for the purpose of making it impossible for individuals to find your number.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wolfie on September 19, 2013, 09:48:32 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.

Again, I'm not saying that it's OK to publish a number publically. I'm not about to publish my personal phone book in The Times.

I'm talking about making and sharing a contact list. Yes, Suzie may have cut off her mother and not want her to have her phone number. I doubt Suzie's mother is going to somehow get hold of the Christmas dinner committee contact list.

Unless Suzue's mom's friend is on the committee and tells Suzie's mom about it and there you go - now all that work Suzie did to get her number away from her mother is undone and she has to deal with it all again. All because someone else decided that the risk was minimal and keeping a number private was silly.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Teenyweeny on September 19, 2013, 09:54:10 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.

Again, I'm not saying that it's OK to publish a number publically. I'm not about to publish my personal phone book in The Times.

I'm talking about making and sharing a contact list. Yes, Suzie may have cut off her mother and not want her to have her phone number. I doubt Suzie's mother is going to somehow get hold of the Christmas dinner committee contact list.

Unless Suzue's mom's friend is on the committee and tells Suzie's mom about it and there you go - now all that work Suzie did to get her number away from her mother is undone and she has to deal with it all again. All because someone else decided that the risk was minimal and keeping a number private was silly.

I'd assume that if Suzie knew that  there was a reasonable chance that her mother could get her number from a fellow committee member, she'd be proactive in opting out of a contact list. And I've never argued that that request should not be honoured.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 19, 2013, 09:55:00 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.

Again, I'm not saying that it's OK to publish a number publically. I'm not about to publish my personal phone book in The Times.

I'm talking about making and sharing a contact list. Yes, Suzie may have cut off her mother and not want her to have her phone number. I doubt Suzie's mother is going to somehow get hold of the Christmas dinner committee contact list.

These are college students right? So why wouldn't the list be essentially university wide public now? Plenty of people will print them out and leave then laying around, such as leaving them on their desk in their shared dorm room, so all their roommates, and roommates friends might see them, or forgetting them/loosing them in a public sitting area where anyone could pick them up. Etc. Plus its a one time event - plenty of people will print out the list and print it with them that one day and then leave them - either in a trash can, or as likely as not, just laying around somewhere because they don't need the print out anymore. It was an emailed list - some people are going to forward it to their friends so their friends can have the convenience of having several classmates numbers. This list very well could be much more widely distributed already.

Suzy's mom might not normally get the list but maybe her co-worker's daughter goes to the same college as Suzy and mom casually complains to other mom "oh its so hard to get in touch with Suzy. She's onto one of these budget cell plans now and I lost her number, hey I don't suppose Lucy has her new one, does she? I just can't seem to get an email response..."
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wolfie on September 19, 2013, 10:00:06 AM
No, good grief no! Stalking is not the only reason people do not want their phone numbers given out. I think the only reason it was brought up so often was your waving off so many poster's concerns and continually stating that stalking is rare. Being dismissive of others experience is going to cause offense every time.

Stalking by strangers is rare. I went and looked up (and posted) the stats. That's not me being dismissive, that's just the truth. I have never said that stalking victims should be brushed off, I feel very sorry for anybody who has to go through that kind of an experience...

But you what is dismissive though? Assuming that all the people who were/are stalked by people they know didn't already go though the hassle of changing their phone numbers. So stranger stalkings are rare big deal, they aren't the only kind of stalking. Plenty of people are bothered by their known stalkers enough to go through the days worth of trouble of changing their number... Having it published publicly to hundreds of random people now makes all that work void.

Not to mention focusing on stalking is dismissive of the dozens, hundreds, of other legitimate reasons people might not want their number known. Professional reasons. Toxic family. Formerly associated with a bad crowd, trying to turn over a new leaf. Extreme introvert. Budget. Etc.

Again, I'm not saying that it's OK to publish a number publically. I'm not about to publish my personal phone book in The Times.

I'm talking about making and sharing a contact list. Yes, Suzie may have cut off her mother and not want her to have her phone number. I doubt Suzie's mother is going to somehow get hold of the Christmas dinner committee contact list.

Unless Suzue's mom's friend is on the committee and tells Suzie's mom about it and there you go - now all that work Suzie did to get her number away from her mother is undone and she has to deal with it all again. All because someone else decided that the risk was minimal and keeping a number private was silly.

I'd assume that if Suzie knew that  there was a reasonable chance that her mother could get her number from a fellow committee member, she'd be proactive in opting out of a contact list. And I've never argued that that request should not be honoured.

But why should I have to reveal all of my personal issues just to get you not to share my information? Maybe I don't want to air all my dirty laundry in public and having to do that to make sure that my information remains private doesn't seem fair.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Hillia on September 19, 2013, 10:01:32 AM
Here's my experience: I was a  member of a small volunteer group, maybe 10 people at the time.  We had a shared Yahoo group area; you had to be approved by one of the group leaders to have access to it.  It contained, among other things, a volunteer contact list. 

New member Mike joins the group.  Everything is fine for several months.  Then Mike, who is a recovering alcoholic, has a relapse.   During this time he uses the contact list to make drunken late night/early morning phone calls to every other member.  He rants, raves, threatens, generally acts like a giant pill.  Even after he sobers up, he's in a very bad place mentally, and continues to call and harass volunteers.  People can't change their phone numbers easily, because of the large number of active contacts going on  (this was a dog rescue - volunteers were working with potential adopters, vets, animal control, owners surrendering dogs, etc).

Eventually Mike settles down and is not heard from again, but it was a very unpleasant few weeks for everyone.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: WillyNilly on September 19, 2013, 10:20:21 AM
The bottom line is, it doesn't matter why a person doesn't want their number made public. What matters is organizations loose volunteers when the numbers are made public. Maybe its because the people are ridiculous maybe its due to valid concerns over their number, but either way the organization looses their volunteers - which in many cases they can ill afford to loose. Our OP says she will not do this or any other volunteer opportunity because of this privacy breach. Earlier in the thread I spoke about a group I volunteer with that lost a valuable, hard working, very involved member due to her email being distributed.

If for no other reason then good volunteers are hard to get, contact information should not be revealed without express permission, because that is a good enough reason. Loosing people when you are trying to recruit people is reason enough that everyone should take to heart the concept of guarding personal information of their volunteers.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Another Sarah on September 19, 2013, 10:38:24 AM
In general, I actually agree with Teenyweeny that it's not a high risk issue, and it certainly wouldn't bother me if my name was on a contact list for a volunteer group. I think there's no harm in having lists as opt-out rather than opt-in.

But I do think that has to be expressly made clear when signing up for something

Just because I think it's a small thing, doesn't mean everybody does. I direct theatre a lot and it's so much more convenient for the whole cast to have everybody else's numbers - but I do always quickly check before I share them.

In this whole thread I think Mel's point is the best I've read
"Either you share them, and it turns out that they're OK with the idea - this is fine.
Or you share them, and they're NOT OK with the idea - this is BAD, and you can't take back the sharing. You cannot fix this.Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would have been OK with it - this is fine, you or they can still contact the person who wanted to get hold of them.
Or you don't share them, and it turns out that they would NOT have been OK with it - this is fine, you have protected them"

Isn't it better etiquette to check than to assume?

In Snowdragon's situation, she'd already performed that step to the best of her knowledge and was totally blindsided by this, but even that mistake on the part of the co-ordinator could have been avoided by simply mentioning that she (the coordinator) was planning to share details at the point of sign up.
I probably would continue to volunteer after complaining and raising this point, but I can understand why you wouldn't trust the school to stick to it.

edited said can't, meant can!
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: VorFemme on September 19, 2013, 11:08:41 AM
On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occurring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.

A new number is a "simple" solution in your world? Because it would not be for at all! My number is on my resume, its attached to my credit cards and bank accounts, its the alternate contact for my Facebook account, my Dr's have it, friends and family across the country - including being the "out of area contact number" for my family in San Francisco in the event the big earthquake comes - etc. I trust those sources to have my number, but I'd rather it didn't get itself too easily just randomly out there; I have an ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago who is probably not a threat at all, but who after I broke up with him did some low level stalking of me, tried to commit suicide and last I heard became a junkie - yeah I'd rather he not be able to go into a public library and pull up my number. I'm sure my number is searchable if someone really tried pretty hard, but at the moment its not super easily accessible and it is in no way a simple thing for me to change it - it would be days worth of work trying to remember and then contact every source that I want to have my number to have them change it.

Just because changing your number is "simple" doesn't mean it is "easy" or cheap.

Thirty-five years ago, it cost us $40 to get a "new number" because we'd had one too many threatening phone calls from people trying to find the wacko who previously had that number.  It might have been a "simple" solution - but I still had to pay for the change to the phone company and update ALL the family, friends, and businesses that needed to contact us with the new number (both of us were active duty military - so there were several offices to be contacted on base). 

It took a couple of weeks to get MOST of them the new information and a couple of the cousins who lived further away missed connecting with us when they drove or made airline connections through Phoenix, Arizona on trips because they hadn't updated the little address book that they took with them (I suppose they updated the large address book at home - remember - this was before cell phones or even PDAs - back when you carried a physical paper phone number list with you or memorized the numbers).

I don't pass out my cell phone number for a second reason.  We don't have texting on our plan (VorGuy picked our plan, not me).  It costs money to get or send a text.  I don't want to explain to him why I am getting texts from strangers who are trying to arrange something from Craigslist or Freecycle - some of them will punch in the number & send a text before reading the rest of the sentence - which reads "#123-456-7890 - please do not text this number". 

It would almost be easier to lie and tell them that it is a landline and can't get texts than it would be to get them to read the instructions about not to try sending texts.  But I digress...

Eight years ago, I was the membership chair for a group of (mostly) women, some elderly.  We published a directory every year and the previous couple of editions had apparently not been pruned enough to suit the president of the board that year.  I spent an extra six weeks calling everyone that I could, emailing everyone that I could, and asking for updated contact information by email, phone, and in person at the various meetings that I attended - when they picked up and dropped off their name tags or signed in as attending.

I got several people to update ONLY on my promise (and there was legal text in the directory requiring this) that it was ONLY for the organization to use for the organization - no spam, whether phone calls or emails.  Again - legal language in document promising this.

Finally got it to the printer over a month late - but it was the most accurate one in years with up-to-date names, addresses, phone numbers, and added cell phone numbers & email addresses.

The vice president promptly sent out a mass emailing about some personal business endeavor of hers...against all the rules for the use of the data and promises made by the organization and its "parent" organization.

It made a few people mad.

What made me mad was that the next year, she was elected president (usual progression for a vice president) even though a number of people voted for someone else, she still had the "most" votes.  I was NOT a happy person and neither were some of the ladies who remember getting that email.

It's been seven years since we moved away from that location - but I still wonder how she got away with it and then got "rewarded" because no one remembered her legal and etiquette blunder (using the email addresses and phone numbers for personal use instead of organizational purposes).
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ellebelle on September 19, 2013, 11:33:00 AM
Honestly, this argument is moot depending on who the coordinator works for. If they work for the school and her data was pulled from the schools data managment system it is a FERPA issue and a legal one.

If the coordinator pulled information from an application, unless they crosschecked it with the schools data managment system, they had no way to know about her forms to request her information be private. Colleges don't keep "lists" like many of you think, their files are marked private in the data management system.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: LeveeWoman on September 19, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
Honestly, this argument is moot depending on who the coordinator works for. If they work for the school and her data was pulled from the schools data managment system it is a FERPA issue and a legal one.

If the coordinator pulled information from an application, unless they crosschecked it with the schools data managment system, they had no way to know about her forms to request her information be private. Colleges don't keep "lists" like many of you think, their files are marked private in the data management system.

From snowdragon's 10th post:  I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ladyknight1 on September 19, 2013, 12:05:34 PM
All clubs and student organizations at my school are completely separate entities and not governed by the school or FERPA. The OP's school may be different.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: wolfie on September 19, 2013, 12:12:54 PM
Can I just say that whenever I read the thread title I see "piracy and volunteering"
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: ellebelle on September 19, 2013, 12:37:22 PM
Honestly, this argument is moot depending on who the coordinator works for. If they work for the school and her data was pulled from the schools data managment system it is a FERPA issue and a legal one.

If the coordinator pulled information from an application, unless they crosschecked it with the schools data managment system, they had no way to know about her forms to request her information be private. Colleges don't keep "lists" like many of you think, their files are marked private in the data management system.

From snowdragon's 10th post:  I have also filled out all the forms at school that should have barred anyone affiliated with the school passing out my info to  anyone that information follows our registrations for classes and anything affiliated with the school ( according to the two offices on campus I spoke to. ), including volunteering for campus  events. We signed up through the same system that we would have used for classes. So I did opt out. She took it upon herself to disregard that.

That doesn't neccessarily mean it uses the data management system. That is was is different.

If the coordinator did pull this data from their system and sent it out this is a legal issue not an etiquette one.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: gen xer on September 19, 2013, 09:05:37 PM
I don't get the whole, "my phone number is secret" thing either.

I can understand not wanting to post it somewhere where it could get picked up by a marketing agency, becuase those calls are annoying. I just think that worrying about an individual abusing your phone number is borrowing trouble, since it more than likely won't happen. (And if that's not what the OP is worried about, then why does she care who has her phone number?)

If they call at an inconvenient time: don't answer.
If they call too often: answer only on your own schedule.
If you don't want to speak to a specific person: set their ring tone to silent, or just make use of your caller ID, and don't answer.

It's really easy to manage who you speak to and when, whilst still having the convenience of being contactable by those who you might need to liase with. It basically boils down to not picking up the phone if you don't wanna.

On the rare chance you start getting calls from a nutter, you can take more serious steps. But really, that's something that has a vanishingly low probability of occuring, and if it does, the solution is fairly simple (get a new number). I choose not to plan my life around low-risk, low-probability threats.
I'm pretty new to this thread but I have to say I agree with this earlier post.   OP was understandably upset about her request being disregarded and she certainly doesn't have to have any reason beyond her personal preference....but I just don't get the worry.  For the record though my DH is a major worrier in this respect.  We have an unlisted number ( he insisted ) and I have been scolded more times than I can count for being very "cavalier" about giving out our phone number.
But I have a hard time extrapolating all these worst case scenarios about a phone number spreading like the Ebola virus.  It just seems a hard way to live.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: Gogi on September 19, 2013, 09:20:24 PM
I'm curious if the OP did quit the AFP, if she told them why she was quitting and the response.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: CakeEater on September 19, 2013, 10:28:15 PM
You're doing well, Teenyweeny.

The only time I've objected to my numbr being published was in my first year of teaching when all staff's home numbers were published in the school' family directory.

Now, my name and number were readily available in the phone book. I really had no objection to anyone in the school knowing my number. And I lived in a small town and most of the kids could have easily worked out where I lived as well.

The only reason I objected was that publishing the number seemed to give implicit permission to families to call me at 6pm and ask about the homework, or the night before sports day when it was raining to ask if it would go ahead.

When those numbers weren't published the following year, those calls stopped dead, even though most families still had the number from the previous year, or from the phone book.
Title: Re: privacy and volunteering
Post by: cass2591 on September 19, 2013, 10:40:39 PM
The OP has been gagged for a while and can't participate in the thread, so I'm locking it.