Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: scansons on October 08, 2013, 03:41:00 PM

Title: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 08, 2013, 03:41:00 PM
My youngest son is in his last year of preschool.  He's just turned 5.  Really like the preschool.  They seem to do a really good job. 


My son's class took a field trip last week to the pumpkin patch.  They use a school van plus a number of parent drivers when they go on a field trip.  This last trip my son ended up in the car of a mother who also has a child in the class, but until this happened I didn't even know her first name.   Which is fine with me normally.  The school checks licenses and backgrounds before letting a parent drive on a trip. 

I show up on time to pick up son.  They are running a little late getting back from trip.  Van and cars show up sort of staggered, and then nothing.  And my child is not back yet.   So I ask one of the Aids who my son was driving with.  She tells me, and then I stand there for ten minutes waiting for my son.  No call.  No one seems to know where she is. 

When other mother finally does show up it turns out she stopped to pick up her other children at their school, before she brought my son back from his field trip.  Yes, she got the glare of death.  But I was so shocked that she would do that, the glare of death was the only thing I could muster that was even remotely polite.  I would never do that to another parent!   

Later it would turn out that she did try and call the preschool director from the car, and let her know what was up.  However cell service is pretty bad in our area, especially outside of town, and the director didn't get the messages until later in the day.  However there is a school policy against what other mother did. 

We did talk to the preschool director, who was very apologetic.  But what do you even say to other mother in that situation?  What would you have said/done?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: fountainof on October 08, 2013, 04:08:40 PM
Was it only 10 minutes you waited?  I probably wouldn't say anything as it wouldn't bother me much if it was only 10 minutes.  If it was an hour or something, yes then I would be annoyed and maybe a bit worried but I don't worry much about stuff in general.  However, I would have the preschool director talk to the parent, I wouldn't directly get involved as it could cause my child issues with a classmate if the mother tells their child not to play with mine, etc.  Also, I would probably insist for the next field trip drivers are given rules.

There was a child that got left in between the doors (in a vestibule) at my DD's preschool and I was the one that found her.  The parents asked the director to speak with me and while I agreed it was an uncomfortable conversation as I am generally not a "what if" person ever and the parent kept going on "what if....",  "what if ...", "what if..." and I generally just said well that didn't happen, well that didn't happen..... 

If you do speak with the parent just explain it was scary not knowing where DS was.  Don't go into what ifs as in the end nothing bad happened.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: CocoCamm on October 08, 2013, 04:11:50 PM
I don't think I would have said anything to the other mother either because there would be no way I could muster anything anywhere near polite.

I would however follow up with the school to ensure that her driving privileges are revoked and she will no longer be allowed to chauffeur children. That would absolutely be my hill to die on even if it meant contacting all the other parents, informing them of the incident, and banding together to confront the school.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: CocoCamm on October 08, 2013, 04:15:28 PM
Was it only 10 minutes you waited?  I probably wouldn't say anything as it wouldn't bother me much if it was only 10 minutes.  If it was an hour or something, yes then I would be annoyed and maybe a bit worried but I don't worry much about stuff in general.  However, I would have the preschool director talk to the parent, I wouldn't directly get involved as it could cause my child issues with a classmate if the mother tells their child not to play with mine, etc.  Also, I would probably insist for the next field trip drivers are given rules.

There was a child that got left in between the doors (in a vestibule) at my DD's preschool and I was the one that found her.  The parents asked the director to speak with me and while I agreed it was an uncomfortable conversation as I am generally not a "what if" person ever and the parent kept going on "what if....",  "what if ...", "what if..." and I generally just said well that didn't happen, well that didn't happen..... 

If you do speak with the parent just explain it was scary not knowing where DS was.  Don't go into what ifs as in the end nothing bad happened.

I don't think the time frame is important. The fact of the matter is the OP didn't know where her child was because another parent decided to break the rules and take the kids along to run a personal errand!

The reason this is a HUGE no no when transporting kids for a school event is because heaven forbid there was an accident the schools insurance wouldn't cover it.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: MrTango on October 08, 2013, 04:28:41 PM
Was it only 10 minutes you waited?  I probably wouldn't say anything as it wouldn't bother me much if it was only 10 minutes.  If it was an hour or something, yes then I would be annoyed and maybe a bit worried but I don't worry much about stuff in general.  However, I would have the preschool director talk to the parent, I wouldn't directly get involved as it could cause my child issues with a classmate if the mother tells their child not to play with mine, etc.  Also, I would probably insist for the next field trip drivers are given rules.

There was a child that got left in between the doors (in a vestibule) at my DD's preschool and I was the one that found her.  The parents asked the director to speak with me and while I agreed it was an uncomfortable conversation as I am generally not a "what if" person ever and the parent kept going on "what if....",  "what if ...", "what if..." and I generally just said well that didn't happen, well that didn't happen..... 

If you do speak with the parent just explain it was scary not knowing where DS was.  Don't go into what ifs as in the end nothing bad happened.

I don't think the time frame is important. The fact of the matter is the OP didn't know where her child was because another parent decided to break the rules and take the kids along to run a personal errand!

The reason this is a HUGE no no when transporting kids for a school event is because heaven forbid there was an accident the schools insurance wouldn't cover it.

I completely agree.  If this were my child, this woman would be absolutely forbidden to ever again transport my child for any reason whatsoever.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 08, 2013, 04:33:28 PM
I see field trips as still being in school, this includes getting to and from.  So just as if another parent couldn't take little Timmy out of class and walk off with him.  Parents can't make a pit stop with little Timmy in their car during a field trip to run a personal errand.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Deetee on October 08, 2013, 04:44:33 PM
I see field trips as still being in school, this includes getting to and from.  So just as if another parent couldn't take little Timmy out of class and walk off with him.  Parents can't make a pit stop with little Timmy in their car during a field trip to run a personal errand.

But this wasn't a personal errand. This was picking her kids up at school. And, if it's like my school, there is a limited time frame in which you can get the kids or you get in serious trouble with the school.

I have some sympathy because I can see how the mom may have had a time frame in mind

3:00: Leave pumpkin patch
3:30 :Arrive Preschool and drop off kid
3:40 :Go to Elementary and pick up older kids

Then there is a delay leaving the pumpkin patch and she may not have noticed or may have noticed and thought she still had time to go to the preschool and then the older kids school.

Then she gets in the car and realises that there is no way she will be able to get to elementary school in time if she goes to the preschool first. So she tries to call and can't so fetches her children.

I mean I know that I often get in the car (with young children) and realise that it 10 or 15 minutes later than it should be because the time evaporates.

I wouldn't see it as a big deal if my kid arrived later in a convey.



Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: bonyk on October 08, 2013, 04:48:19 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: LeveeWoman on October 08, 2013, 04:52:20 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

Bingo!
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: CocoCamm on October 08, 2013, 04:59:48 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

Bingo!

Exactly! If she didn't have the time to pick up her kids she could have made alternate arrangement for the older one's or not volunteered for the field trip.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 05:04:52 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

But she knew where her child was - in the other car.  You know stuff happens.  You can be delayed by an accident, have to stop for gas or to let a child go to the bathroom.  Ten minutes isn't a big deal.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 05:10:10 PM
There is a way to insure that this never happens again.  The OP can volunteer to be a driver for subsequent field trips.  Its usually the same moms that are always the room mothers, drivers, den mothers and girl scout leaders.   Some parents (and I don't mean the OP) never volunteer and yet expect the volunteers to behave as if they were paid employees.

I'm sure that the field trip left late and the other mother was supposed to be back in time to pick up her other children.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: alice on October 08, 2013, 05:11:53 PM
How does it work with the car seats?  Do these parent drivers have enough car seats for the other kids in their cars? 

Let's say this woman had an extra car seat for the OP's child...what about after she picked her kids up from school?  Was the OP's child in a car seat?

I would be more concerned about that.  I still would not like my kid being in someone else's car.  Do they smoke in the car, have they had any prior accidents?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: darkprincess on October 08, 2013, 05:12:59 PM
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: WillyNilly on October 08, 2013, 05:14:26 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

But she knew where her child was - in the other car.  You know stuff happens.  You can be delayed by an accident, have to stop for gas or to let a child go to the bathroom.  Ten minutes isn't a big deal.

I don't think a person gets to make that call (what is/is not a big deal) when its someone else's child.
The fact is this action was blatantly against the rules. There is no grey area - she was absolutely not supposed to do this (make a stop to pick up her other kids) and she did anyway, with someone else's child in her care and without that parent's consent or knowledge. And that is a big deal.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: CocoCamm on October 08, 2013, 05:20:44 PM
There is a way to insure that this never happens again.  The OP can volunteer to be a driver for subsequent field trips.  Its usually the same moms that are always the room mothers, drivers, den mothers and girl scout leaders.   Some parents (and I don't mean the OP) never volunteer and yet expect the volunteers to behave as if they were paid employees.

I'm sure that the field trip left late and the other mother was supposed to be back in time to pick up her other children.

No, the way to ensure this never happens again is for the school to get involved and inform Late Mom that she is never again allowed to drive the kids then make sure that any future volunteers are aware how serious the rules are.

And it doesn't matter whether one is being paid or they are volunteering if there are rules you follow them or don't bother showing up. Late Mom wasn't doing anyone a favor by traipsing around town with other peoples children when she should have been dropping them off at school.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 05:32:06 PM
It is possible the other children are old enough not to need carseats. As for questions about smoking or previous accidents, those would exist no matter what. You could always opt to drive your child on your own.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: flickan on October 08, 2013, 05:50:40 PM
Count me in with those who think this is a big deal and should never have happened.

If you can't get ahold of the parent to let them know then you shouldn't be doing it.  Imagine if she'd gotten caught in traffic and ten minutes had become half an hour?  How much unnecessary stress and panic that would put a parent through!
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: EllenS on October 08, 2013, 05:54:55 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

But she knew where her child was - in the other car.  You know stuff happens.  You can be delayed by an accident, have to stop for gas or to let a child go to the bathroom.  Ten minutes isn't a big deal.

Yes, "stuff happens".  That is the mom's fear. 
One car in a convoy is not going to arrive 10 minutes after all the others, unless they have made an unscheduled stop.  If it was a necessary pit stop, she could have called one of the other drivers, or used a landline pay phone at the gas station.   But she didn't, because it wasn't.

The idea "well, it could have been this or it could have been that" is irrelevant - in REALITY, the driving mom decided to divert for reasons of her own (which may have been poor planning and communication or simple selfishness)  Totally unacceptable, and apparently against the school's stated policy.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: *inviteseller on October 08, 2013, 06:05:46 PM
I don't care if it is 10 hours or 10 minutes...my child is in a car with someone I don't know, meaning he doesn't know and she is breaking protocol .  I know had that been my child I would have asked her what the very warm place was she thinking???  I would make sure the school knew my child was never chaperoned in any way shape or form by this mom again. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 06:07:45 PM
Went back and read the OP. It doesn't sound like a convoy because vehicles were staggered coming back.

Also, they were late in general. If this trip took longerthan the driver had originally been told she would not have been able to anticipate a conflict with her other kids and picking them up. If everything had been running on schedule she would have returned to preschool, then icked up her kids. However, the event ran long and she was faced with.a conflict.

Maybe she should have assumed something would go wrong and a conflict would arise. She probably will next time. I would not say anything to her this time.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: QueenfaninCA on October 08, 2013, 06:14:18 PM
I see field trips as still being in school, this includes getting to and from.  So just as if another parent couldn't take little Timmy out of class and walk off with him.  Parents can't make a pit stop with little Timmy in their car during a field trip to run a personal errand.

But this wasn't a personal errand. This was picking her kids up at school. And, if it's like my school, there is a limited time frame in which you can get the kids or you get in serious trouble with the school.

Sorry, but picking up other children (even if they are yours) from school is a personal errand. It is definitely not part of the field trip.

If the field trip goes past the time you need to pick up other kids, don't volunteer as a driver.

If the field trip runs late and you really need to pick up your other kids, you need to tell some other adult from the preschool in advance, i.e., before everyone left the pumpkin patch.

Quote
I have some sympathy because I can see how the mom may have had a time frame in mind

3:00: Leave pumpkin patch
3:30 :Arrive Preschool and drop off kid
3:40 :Go to Elementary and pick up older kids

Then there is a delay leaving the pumpkin patch and she may not have noticed or may have noticed and thought she still had time to go to the preschool and then the older kids school.

Then she gets in the car and realises that there is no way she will be able to get to elementary school in time if she goes to the preschool first. So she tries to call and can't so fetches her children.

I mean I know that I often get in the car (with young children) and realise that it 10 or 15 minutes later than it should be because the time evaporates.

I wouldn't see it as a big deal if my kid arrived later in a convey.

Sorry, your bad time mangagement skills are your problem alone and should not impact other parents.

If everyone else has arrived and no one has been told where you went, other parents of your children are rightfully worried about their children.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Please pass the Calgon on October 08, 2013, 06:15:24 PM
If it was an hour or something, yes then I would be annoyed and maybe a bit worried but I don't worry much about stuff in general.

LOL, there would be cops out looking for her car if she had my preschool child and was 'an hour or something' late with no contact. My three are now 14, 11 & 9 and I still don't mess around with stuff like that. If you are going to be more than 10 minutes late, you call or text...no exceptions.

I'd let the school know that my child was no longer allowed to ride with that parent, or needed to be on the bus if I wasn't attending that trip.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 06:18:22 PM
Preschools don't usually have busses.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: QueenfaninCA on October 08, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is.  If the other mom wanted to approach me on the issue, I think I would (try to) politely keep repeating that, "10 minutes is an eternity when you don't know where your 5 year old is."

As for mom being late for picking up her other kids, if her schedule was that tight, she should not have volunteered.

But she knew where her child was - in the other car.  You know stuff happens.  You can be delayed by an accident, have to stop for gas or to let a child go to the bathroom.  Ten minutes isn't a big deal.

Or she could be delayed by actually having an accident. This is why parents worry when everyone else has arrived 10 minutes ago and one car is still missing and the driver didn't let anyone know of the planned detour.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 06:25:32 PM
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.

If you are not an employee of the school, you would not be performing "personal errands".

Whether or not the OP volunteers is relevent.  If a 10 minute delay is going to upset her she needs to be driving her own child.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 06:29:28 PM
Count me in with those who think this is a big deal and should never have happened.

If you can't get ahold of the parent to let them know then you shouldn't be doing it.  Imagine if she'd gotten caught in traffic and ten minutes had become half an hour?  How much unnecessary stress and panic that would put a parent through!

She left a message with the director:

"Later it would turn out that she did try and call the preschool director from the car, and let her know what was up.  However cell service is pretty bad in our area, especially outside of town, and the director didn't get the messages until later in the day."
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: NyaChan on October 08, 2013, 06:31:21 PM
I think she would have known when they left the field trip for the school that she would be running late and that was the time for her to speak up and let the school staff know about her problem.  Once she left with the child, she should have followed through and instead called her own kids' school to tell them she was running late for pickup.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: QueenfaninCA on October 08, 2013, 06:32:50 PM
Count me in with those who think this is a big deal and should never have happened.

If you can't get ahold of the parent to let them know then you shouldn't be doing it.  Imagine if she'd gotten caught in traffic and ten minutes had become half an hour?  How much unnecessary stress and panic that would put a parent through!

She left a message with the director:

"Later it would turn out that she did try and call the preschool director from the car, and let her know what was up.  However cell service is pretty bad in our area, especially outside of town, and the director didn't get the messages until later in the day."

I think this is not the situation to leave a message. This is a situation where you actually need to talk to a person.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: AuntyEm on October 08, 2013, 06:34:37 PM
I don't think she should have stopped to pick up her other kids without prior approval from someone at the school that could relay that message to anyone who needed to know.   I think pushing the panic button at 10 minutes late is over the top.   Everyone driving needs to have a working cell phone and a person available to contact in the event there is a change in the agreed schedule. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 06:36:47 PM
I think she would have known when they left the field trip for the school that she would be running late and that was the time for her to speak up and let the school staff know about her problem.  Once she left with the child, she should have followed through and instead called her own kids' school to tell them she was running late for pickup.

It wouldn't surprise me if the driver had done just that - she may have told the teacher that she needed to pick up her other kids. 

I think that the OP should talk to the teacher if that would make her feel better.  However, if you complain about volunteers you should be prepared to step up to the plate and volunteer yourself. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 06:39:10 PM
It sounds like the area has sketchy cell coverage, though. Cell phones don't do any good when there is a problem with coverage.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Marbles on October 08, 2013, 06:40:08 PM
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.

If you are not an employee of the school, you would not be performing "personal errands".

Whether or not the OP volunteers is relevent.  If a 10 minute delay is going to upset her she needs to be driving her own child.

I don't think it's relevant at all. The OP has to be able to trust that any person the school chooses to entrust her child with is going to follow the rules the school has set for the care, handling, and supervision of the kids. This parent clearly did not.

It's not just a ten minute delay.
The kids were supposed to be back at X:00; the whole group was late. Eventually, the bus and cars started rolling in over the course of some period of time (5, 10, 20 minutes? The OP doesn't specify). After all the other cars had arrived, the OP had to wait a further 10 minutes for her child.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on October 08, 2013, 06:41:20 PM
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.

If you are not an employee of the school, you would not be performing "personal errands".

Whether or not the OP volunteers is relevent.  If a 10 minute delay is going to upset her she needs to be driving her own child.

Is she able to drive her own child? I mean, maybe OP has a job and can't take time off to drive for field trips. Maybe she has younger children at home to care for. Maybe she's in school. Maybe she doesn't drive or prefers to volunteer in the classroom.

This is a personal errand. If volunteer mom was on a tight schedule, she didn't need to volunteer. Or she could have told an employee of the school "After the field trip I need to pick up my other kids from school, so I won't be able to drive any other kids back with me", and I'm sure the school would've figured out a solution. The rules say she can't go pick up her other kids while driving other people's kids back from field trip. That's it. That's the rule. If she's 5 minutes late, or 10 minutes late, or a half hour late because of it doesn't matter. She's not allowed to do it. Period.

Remember this woman was essentially a stranger. Sure, the kids go to the same school. But that's it. What if it hadn't been picking up other kids that made her late? What if she had decided to pick up a friend from work? Or stopped at Starbucks? Is that still ok? Only 10 minutes right?

A lot can happen in 10 minutes. And more importantly, if you take my hypothetical children somewhere and they are to be back by a certain time, they are to be back by that time. If there is a delay, such as traffic, I expect notification. If everyone else got back on time, and she didn't, then what did she do that they didn't do?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 06:42:21 PM
I don't think she should have stopped to pick up her other kids without prior approval from someone at the school that could relay that message to anyone who needed to know.   I think pushing the panic button at 10 minutes late is over the top.   Everyone driving needs to have a working cell phone and a person available to contact in the event there is a change in the agreed schedule.

My children's school did not have volunteer drivers, but girls & boy scouts did.  I know if I was paniced over a 10 minute delay the other parents would have thought I was way way over the top. 

I specifically remember one cub scout outing where my son's car was the last one to arrive (by more than 10 minutes).  The boys all tumbled out of the car with the remains of their happy meals.  The food had been so bad at the outing and the mom so nice that she stopped at the drive thu and bought all the boys lunch. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 08, 2013, 06:47:56 PM
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.

If you are not an employee of the school, you would not be performing "personal errands".

Whether or not the OP volunteers is relevent.  If a 10 minute delay is going to upset her she needs to be driving her own child.

Is she able to drive her own child? I mean, maybe OP has a job and can't take time off to drive for field trips. Maybe she has younger children at home to care for. Maybe she's in school. Maybe she doesn't drive or prefers to volunteer in the classroom.

This is a personal errand. If volunteer mom was on a tight schedule, she didn't need to volunteer. Or she could have told an employee of the school "After the field trip I need to pick up my other kids from school, so I won't be able to drive any other kids back with me", and I'm sure the school would've figured out a solution. The rules say she can't go pick up her other kids while driving other people's kids back from field trip. That's it. That's the rule. If she's 5 minutes late, or 10 minutes late, or a half hour late because of it doesn't matter. She's not allowed to do it. Period.

Remember this woman was essentially a stranger. Sure, the kids go to the same school. But that's it. What if it hadn't been picking up other kids that made her late? What if she had decided to pick up a friend from work? Or stopped at Starbucks? Is that still ok? Only 10 minutes right?

A lot can happen in 10 minutes. And more importantly, if you take my hypothetical children somewhere and they are to be back by a certain time, they are to be back by that time. If there is a delay, such as traffic, I expect notification. If everyone else got back on time, and she didn't, then what did she do that they didn't do?

Seriously?  First if you read the OP this is her youngest child, so no younger children at home.  You'd expect at phone call for a traffic delay?  So you want the driver to use a cell phone while driving?

What if she had picked up a friend from work?  Okay.  What if she had stopped to sell crack?  Or sell stolen hubcaps?  She didn't do any of that so whats the point?

The school has a practice of using volunteer drivers.  The OP can complain about the volunteer, she can drive her own son or she can try to get the field trips ended.   Choices one and three will make her unpopular with the other parents. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: citadelle on October 08, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
I don't think she should have stopped to pick up her other kids without prior approval from someone at the school that could relay that message to anyone who needed to know.   I think pushing the panic button at 10 minutes late is over the top.   Everyone driving needs to have a working cell phone and a person available to contact in the event there is a change in the agreed schedule.

My children's school did not have volunteer drivers, but girls & boy scouts did.  I know if I was paniced over a 10 minute delay the other parents would have thought I was way way over the top. 

I specifically remember one cub scout outing where my son's car was the last one to arrive (by more than 10 minutes).  The boys all tumbled out of the car with the remains of their happy meals.  The food had been so bad at the outing and the mom so nice that she stopped at the drive thu and bought all the boys lunch.

That's terrible! How did she know they were allowed to eat McDonald's? /sarcasm
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 08, 2013, 06:52:38 PM
The hour-long delay was not the other mother's fault.

The *extra* 10 minutes was.

I think I'd have been OK with waiting that 10 mins. (if it was really just 10 mins.), because in my neck of the woods, you can simply be behind a slowish driver and end up that late.

Of course, the OP was in a much more worried state because she waited the hour with no info.

I also was much less worried in general. I tended to trust the grownups who had my kids; I wasn't very imaginative about what could happen.

If it would make the OP feel better, I think she could definitely ask the teacher or director about the incident and ask what they thought would be the future plan for such a situation.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 06:55:32 PM
If the field trip really was a whole hour longer than it should have been then the driver really had no way of knowing it would run into her pickup time for the other kids.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Deetee on October 08, 2013, 07:03:57 PM

Quote
I have some sympathy because I can see how the mom may have had a time frame in mind

3:00: Leave pumpkin patch
3:30 :Arrive Preschool and drop off kid
3:40 :Go to Elementary and pick up older kids

Then there is a delay leaving the pumpkin patch and she may not have noticed or may have noticed and thought she still had time to go to the preschool and then the older kids school.

Then she gets in the car and realises that there is no way she will be able to get to elementary school in time if she goes to the preschool first. So she tries to call and can't so fetches her children.

I mean I know that I often get in the car (with young children) and realise that it 10 or 15 minutes later than it should be because the time evaporates.

I wouldn't see it as a big deal if my kid arrived later in a convey.

Sorry, your bad time mangagement skills are your problem alone and should not impact other parents.

If everyone else has arrived and no one has been told where you went, other parents of your children are rightfully worried about their children.

In this case, it could very likely not be the mom's poor time management skills. It was the preschool's time management. She thought they were leaving at a specific time. Because everything was delayed, she didn't get to leave a certain time and likely couldn't make it to her other kids.

If the woman had stopped to go grocery shopping or drop of dry cleaning, I'd be jumping on the unacceptable train with everyone else.

But the woman left a message and picked up her kids (which has a time limited window) and delivered the child safely 10 minutes later.

I agree with previous posters that it would be best for someone who had that little tolerance for such a stop to drive herself in the future.

If faced with picking your kids up up at principal's office after school  and worrying them or dropping the kid off late and worrying the mom, I think that she made the right choice.

[and all this reminds me that I need to send in my drivers volunteer for my kids field trip to a pumpkin patch. ]
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: camlan on October 08, 2013, 07:07:26 PM
The OP does not give the amount of time the main group was late, or the amount of time the car her son was in was late. The hour and the 10 minutes are guesses by other posters.

To answer the question the OP asked, what would you say to the other mother, my answer would be--nothing.

Take up the matter with the school administration. Let them know you were unhappy with what happened. Maybe it's time to stop using volunteer parent drivers and to hire two buses instead of one.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 07:10:19 PM
Actually, she did say her child's vehicle was 10 minutes beyond the last. And there was no bus, there was a school van.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Peregrine on October 08, 2013, 07:20:43 PM
Mother to a pre-schooler going on his first field trip on Friday.

I say nothing to the other mother.   I ask the director to investigate the incident fully.  I state that on future field trips that my son is not be driven by this mother if they continue to allow her to drive.

I really think this is all you can politely do in this particular situation.  I also believe that if you aren't willing or able to volunteer your time for field trips you can't be surprised or upset if they no longer happen. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: perpetua on October 08, 2013, 07:21:34 PM
I don't know what this woman was supposed to do. The field trip ran late, which presumably made her late for picking up her own kids, for which there can be penalties, or safety issues. So she has the choice to either stop and get them on the way, which it sounds like she did, or drive the school kids back, drop them off, then go back for her kids, making her possibly 20 minutes later in the other direction to get her own kids. Depending on how old they are could be stuck in the principal's office with some overzealous teacher calling the authorities because their parent hasn't picked them up (no cell phone coverage, so the mum couldn't be called herself to find out where she was) or, if they're older, may have been waiting outside the school gates on their own. I think she did the best she could in a difficult situation.

I agree with those who say if the OP wants that much control over a few minutes, she should drive the kids herself.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Please pass the Calgon on October 08, 2013, 07:23:50 PM
Preschools don't usually have busses.
The school van then, which she did say they have.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 07:27:03 PM
Preschools don't usually have busses.
The school van then, which she did say they have.

Having taken kids on field trips, there is a pretty significant difference.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Roe on October 08, 2013, 07:30:33 PM
The mother who went on personal business during a school field trip should NEVER be allowed to haul children back and forth ever again.  At the very least, I'd make absolutely certain that my child would never drive with her again.

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: doodlemor on October 08, 2013, 07:34:13 PM
We had a few extremely nervous minutes last week when our 7 year old grandson did not get off the school bus at our home due to a transportation department mix up.  It was a tremendous relief when he was located, and we knew that he was safe.

I can imagine how upset the OP was not knowing where her child was when he had been driven in a private vehicle.  It does sound like she waited a long time, and that after everyone else was back and she finally asked someone, it was still another 10 minutes. 

I think that I would have rushed breathlessly to the vehicle when it arrived and said something like, "My God, is everything OK?"  I'm not sure if that is polite or not, but that would have been my reaction.  If she had then told me that she had picked up her own children I probably would have said, "Really?  I thought that was against the rules."  OP, I think that she got off easy when you only gave her the "glare of death."



Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 07:37:18 PM
I think it is fine to say your child can't ride with her again. The flip side is that the school might say you need to drive your child to field trips yourself or keep them home on field trip days.

I also noticed OP mentioned drivers had all had background checks. In this day and age that would probably include fingerprinting which isn't cheap or quick. Time and money was spent making sure this mom was OK to drive and be.around kids. Replacing her would not be easy or fast.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 08, 2013, 07:37:36 PM
Hey, OP here. 

First of all, yes, I volunteer all the time with both of the boy's schools.  Yes, I have driven for these field trips before.  Which is why I say that I would never do this to another parent.  If it was me running ten minutes late for any reason, and the director of the preschool wasn't picking up, I would call the land line at the church which is always manned during regular business hours.  I'm sure one of the staff would go out and alert any parents with children in my care. 

The rest of the group was fifteen minutes later than they expected to be.  They should have been back at 2:45.  But were all back except late mom by 3:10. 

Let's be clear, I understand being late.  I don't understand not making every effort to contact the people I was late for.  Especially when I have their child in my care. 

Also, really how hard is it to call your older childs school and let them know whats up so they can tell your children and maybe let them wait in the office for you?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 08, 2013, 07:40:04 PM
I think if the whole group was late, then the time to say something to the school staff is before everyone gets back into vehicles to drive back from the field trip.  I'm presuming that the other mother had some way of telling time.  So she probably knew she was going to be cutting it close with having to pick up her kid from school. 


Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: CocoCamm on October 08, 2013, 07:41:39 PM
I think she would have known when they left the field trip for the school that she would be running late and that was the time for her to speak up and let the school staff know about her problem.  Once she left with the child, she should have followed through and instead called her own kids' school to tell them she was running late for pickup.

It wouldn't surprise me if the driver had done just that - she may have told the teacher that she needed to pick up her other kids. 

I think that the OP should talk to the teacher if that would make her feel better.  However, if you complain about volunteers you should be prepared to step up to the plate and volunteer yourself.

If this was a petty complaint I would agree but this is anything but petty. There are very serious reasons why you can't do this when you are a trip chaperone.

And I think this attitude that volunteers should be able to ignore the rules to suit their needs just because they volunteered is way over the top. If you volunteer to do something whether it be for your kids school, your church, or social organization you agree to adhere to their rules/standards. You don't get carte blanche to do whatever you please because you volunteered and if someone doesn't like it well tough noogies let them do it next time.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: perpetua on October 08, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
Hey, OP here. 

First of all, yes, I volunteer all the time with both of the boy's schools.  Yes, I have driven for these field trips before.  Which is why I say that I would never do this to another parent.  If it was me running ten minutes late for any reason, and the director of the preschool wasn't picking up, I would call the land line at the church which is always manned during regular business hours.  I'm sure one of the staff would go out and alert any parents with children in my care. 

The rest of the group was fifteen minutes later than they expected to be.  They should have been back at 2:45.  But were all back except late mom by 3:10. 

Let's be clear, I understand being late.  I don't understand not making every effort to contact the people I was late for.  Especially when I have their child in my care. 

Also, really how hard is it to call your older childs school and let them know whats up so they can tell your children and maybe let them wait in the office for you?

But you said in your OP that phone reception was really bad in your area, so that explains that. She obviously tried to make some calls, since she left a message with the director. Perhaps that's all she was able to do before the reception went.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 08, 2013, 07:45:24 PM
Hey, OP here. 

First of all, yes, I volunteer all the time with both of the boy's schools.  Yes, I have driven for these field trips before.  Which is why I say that I would never do this to another parent.  If it was me running ten minutes late for any reason, and the director of the preschool wasn't picking up, I would call the land line at the church which is always manned during regular business hours.  I'm sure one of the staff would go out and alert any parents with children in my care. 

The rest of the group was fifteen minutes later than they expected to be.  They should have been back at 2:45.  But were all back except late mom by 3:10. 

Let's be clear, I understand being late.  I don't understand not making every effort to contact the people I was late for.  Especially when I have their child in my care. 

Also, really how hard is it to call your older childs school and let them know whats up so they can tell your children and maybe let them wait in the office for you?

But you said in your OP that phone reception was really bad in your area, so that explains that. She obviously tried to make some calls, since she left a message with the director. Perhaps that's all she was able to do before the reception went.

Once she hit town, her phone should have been working just fine. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: bonyk on October 08, 2013, 07:56:15 PM
Hey, OP here. 

First of all, yes, I volunteer all the time with both of the boy's schools.  Yes, I have driven for these field trips before.  Which is why I say that I would never do this to another parent.  If it was me running ten minutes late for any reason, and the director of the preschool wasn't picking up, I would call the land line at the church which is always manned during regular business hours.  I'm sure one of the staff would go out and alert any parents with children in my care. 

The rest of the group was fifteen minutes later than they expected to be.  They should have been back at 2:45.  But were all back except late mom by 3:10. 

Let's be clear, I understand being late.  I don't understand not making every effort to contact the people I was late for.  Especially when I have their child in my care. 

Also, really how hard is it to call your older childs school and let them know whats up so they can tell your children and maybe let them wait in the office for you?

But you said in your OP that phone reception was really bad in your area, so that explains that. She obviously tried to make some calls, since she left a message with the director. Perhaps that's all she was able to do before the reception went.

Once she hit town, her phone should have been working just fine. 

And before she left the venue, she could have told the director she needed to stop.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: doodlemor on October 08, 2013, 07:58:22 PM


And I think this attitude that volunteers should be able to ignore the rules to suit their needs just because they volunteered is way over the top. If you volunteer to do something whether it be for your kids school, your church, or social organization you agree to adhere to their rules/standards. You don't get carte blanche to do whatever you please because you volunteered and if someone doesn't like it well tough noogies let them do it next time.

So, so true.  I met some very entitled people trying to be a Friend of our local library.  Some people just don't understand that rules are for everyone.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 08, 2013, 07:59:42 PM
If she had a chance. Since they were dtaggeted coming back they might not have all gathered together before departing.

It sounds like there might have been some minor issues with either planning or ececuting this trip in general.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: *inviteseller on October 08, 2013, 08:08:14 PM
It is not a problem with parent volunteers, it was a problem with this one parent volunteer who made a decision to take another person's child, without permission to run her personal errand.  If they ran over at the field trip and she knew she was running late (and I am sure she had to know), she should have opened her mouth and told a teacher "I have to pick my child up at school by x time, then I will be right over to drop off OP's son".  Then the school would have told OP, her mind would have been at ease knowing where her child was and when he would be there.  It is not fair to tell OP to suck it up and volunteer herself if she doesn't like what the mother did.  This mother broke protocol  and told a virtually strange child to go take care of her personal business.  Doesn't matter if it was to pick up another child, an adult, a coffee..whatever.  She agreed to drive this child from preschool to field trip then back again..not well, I have to go do this or that.  And leaving a message isn't right.  You have another persons child, you call until you get hold of someone and if her cell wasn't working, she could have borrowed the schools phone.  The other mom broke the agreement, plain and simple.  We can go round for round all night over the amount of time, or what if's, but the fact was she broke a rule that she agreed to when she volunteered and for that she should not be allowed to volunteer to drive any other kids again.
She didn't stop for gas or let a kid use the restroom. She broke the rules and took a child who wasn't hers on a personal errand. She should not have volunteered if her timeline didn't allow for the trip.
We don't know how much the OP volunteers and that is irrelevant to the situation.
She should not be allowed to do field trips anymore and the drivers should have to read and sign the rules before driving.

If you are not an employee of the school, you would not be performing "personal errands".

Whether or not the OP volunteers is relevent.  If a 10 minute delay is going to upset her she needs to be driving her own child.

Is she able to drive her own child? I mean, maybe OP has a job and can't take time off to drive for field trips. Maybe she has younger children at home to care for. Maybe she's in school. Maybe she doesn't drive or prefers to volunteer in the classroom.

This is a personal errand. If volunteer mom was on a tight schedule, she didn't need to volunteer. Or she could have told an employee of the school "After the field trip I need to pick up my other kids from school, so I won't be able to drive any other kids back with me", and I'm sure the school would've figured out a solution. The rules say she can't go pick up her other kids while driving other people's kids back from field trip. That's it. That's the rule. If she's 5 minutes late, or 10 minutes late, or a half hour late because of it doesn't matter. She's not allowed to do it. Period.

Remember this woman was essentially a stranger. Sure, the kids go to the same school. But that's it. What if it hadn't been picking up other kids that made her late? What if she had decided to pick up a friend from work? Or stopped at Starbucks? Is that still ok? Only 10 minutes right?

A lot can happen in 10 minutes. And more importantly, if you take my hypothetical children somewhere and they are to be back by a certain time, they are to be back by that time. If there is a delay, such as traffic, I expect notification. If everyone else got back on time, and she didn't, then what did she do that they didn't do?

Seriously?  First if you read the OP this is her youngest child, so no younger children at home.  You'd expect at phone call for a traffic delay?  So you want the driver to use a cell phone while driving?

What if she had picked up a friend from work?  Okay.  What if she had stopped to sell crack?  Or sell stolen hubcaps?  She didn't do any of that so whats the point?

The school has a practice of using volunteer drivers.  The OP can complain about the volunteer, she can drive her own son or she can try to get the field trips ended.   Choices one and three will make her unpopular with the other parents. 

I think that is OTT.  OP has every right to say to the school that that woman can no longer be responsible for her child on a field trip because other mom was wrong.  And the OP isn't trying to control anything..she just didn't want her son running errands with someone she had not given permission to do so with. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 08, 2013, 08:08:31 PM
If she had a chance. Since they were dtaggeted coming back they might not have all gathered together before departing.

It sounds like there might have been some minor issues with either planning or ececuting this trip in general.

They are preschoolers, there is a full accounting at both ends of the trip before anybody goes anywhere.  It would have been a simple mention.

Although she would have been told that taking a child somewhere else was against policy without the parents permission. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: *inviteseller on October 08, 2013, 08:45:35 PM
If she had a chance. Since they were dtaggeted coming back they might not have all gathered together before departing.

It sounds like there might have been some minor issues with either planning or ececuting this trip in general.

They are preschoolers, there is a full accounting at both ends of the trip before anybody goes anywhere.  It would have been a simple mention.

Although she would have been told that taking a child somewhere else was against policy without the parents permission. 

And that is why she just did it..she knew it was wrong, but went ahead anyway.  How would she have felt if she didn't know where her child was?

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 08, 2013, 08:47:51 PM
If she had a chance. Since they were dtaggeted coming back they might not have all gathered together before departing.

It sounds like there might have been some minor issues with either planning or ececuting this trip in general.

They are preschoolers, there is a full accounting at both ends of the trip before anybody goes anywhere.  It would have been a simple mention.

Although she would have been told that taking a child somewhere else was against policy without the parents permission. 

Which may be why she didn't say anything in the first place.  *or what inviteseller said :)*
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Joeschmo on October 08, 2013, 08:54:35 PM
Hey, OP here. 

First of all, yes, I volunteer all the time with both of the boy's schools.  Yes, I have driven for these field trips before.  Which is why I say that I would never do this to another parent.  If it was me running ten minutes late for any reason, and the director of the preschool wasn't picking up, I would call the land line at the church which is always manned during regular business hours.  I'm sure one of the staff would go out and alert any parents with children in my care.

The rest of the group was fifteen minutes later than they expected to be.  They should have been back at 2:45.  But were all back except late mom by 3:10. 

Let's be clear, I understand being late.  I don't understand not making every effort to contact the people I was late for.  Especially when I have their child in my care. 

Also, really how hard is it to call your older childs school and let them know whats up so they can tell your children and maybe let them wait in the office for you?

I think all parents have different priorities for the safety of their child.  I would rather someone be 10 minutes late than hear they were on the phone making multiple calls and being distracted while driving with my hypothetical child in the car.  It may be worth considering that the volunteer felt the same way I do and wouldn't be overly worried about the lateness.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 08, 2013, 08:59:38 PM
To me, at the end of the day, the big issue would be: was my child actually, really, safe?

Not, "did I worry that he might not be safe?"
But "*Was* he safe?"

He was safe. He was perfectly safe. He was safely strapped into a safe car seat in the backseat of a safe car driven by a safe driver.

So while I might have been a bit worried, I would be done worrying or thinking about this.

If I thought the timing might lead this mom to do a similar thing (i.e., if the group really wasn't that late in leaving the place they'd gone), I'd say to the director that I'd like it if they explored the "picking up your kids" issue with other daycare parents in the future.

And then I'd be done.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Hmmmmm on October 08, 2013, 09:35:15 PM
I'm thinking like tardy mom.

I know it's my time to volunteer to drive.
I'm told we are to be back by 2:45 which gives me 15 min to get to my older kids school.
We leave the field trip a little later than expected, but it should still be able to drop off at the preschool and make it to my kids school on time.
Traffic is horrible. I'll never make it on time. My kids go to a public school with zero tolerance for late parents.
I leave a message for preschool director that I'll be late.(unfortunately she doesn't get it)
I'm transporting kids and in school zones so no time to make more calls.
I pick up my kids a few minutes late and arrive at preschool 10 min after the other parents.
I get death stares from a mom. Didn't the director pass on my message?

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 08, 2013, 09:37:06 PM
I'm thinking like tardy mom.

I know it's my time to volunteer to drive.
I'm told we are to be back by 2:45 which gives me 15 min to get to my older kids school.
We leave the field trip a little later than expected, but it should still be able to drop off at the preschool and make it to my kids school on time.
Traffic is horrible. I'll never make it on time. My kids go to a public school with zero tolerance for late parents.
I leave a message for preschool director that I'll be late.(unfortunately she doesn't get it)
I pick up my kids a few minutes late and arrive at preschool 10 min after the other parents.
I get death stares from a mom. Didn't the director pass on my message?



we have no idea that this is tardy mom's thought process.  Unless she posts her side of the story, this can turn into a slippery slope
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Bluenomi on October 08, 2013, 09:55:39 PM
Driving mum broke the rules. Doesn't really matter if it was for a good reason or not, she broke a rule set by the school for the safety of the children in their care. If something had happend while she was rule breaking, the school would have been considered at least partly at fault. For that reason alone I think the OP is entitled to talk to the school about it and request her child doesn't go with that driver anymore. The driver should also have the issue carefully explained to her so she knows just why said rule is a rule
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: baglady on October 08, 2013, 11:18:24 PM
I'm thinking like tardy mom.

I know it's my time to volunteer to drive.
I'm told we are to be back by 2:45 which gives me 15 min to get to my older kids school.
We leave the field trip a little later than expected, but it should still be able to drop off at the preschool and make it to my kids school on time.
Traffic is horrible. I'll never make it on time. My kids go to a public school with zero tolerance for late parents.
I leave a message for preschool director that I'll be late.(unfortunately she doesn't get it)
I pick up my kids a few minutes late and arrive at preschool 10 min after the other parents.
I get death stares from a mom. Didn't the director pass on my message?



we have no idea that this is tardy mom's thought process.  Unless she posts her side of the story, this can turn into a slippery slope

No, we don't know. But it sounds plausible to me. She may have sincerely thought that being 10 minutes late returning OP's child to preschool *wasn't* a big deal, especially since she did call. She probably weighed the consequences of picking up her own kids 20 minutes late against returning OP's child 10 minutes late (and calling to let the preschool know -- it's not her fault nobody picked up the call). Heck, she may have underestimated the time involved and figured she'd only be a couple of minutes late arriving back at the preschool.

She was not "traipsing around running personal errands." She was picking up her children at school. I'm not a parent, but I was a teacher, and I know schools can get very cranky about late pickups, even fining parents or calling police to come get the kids if the parents haven't shown up by a certain time.

I understand the OP's anxiety and I think the mom should be spoken to. "Mrs. Jones, if something comes up that's going to delay you getting back to the preschool, please let a staff member know, and we'll arrange alternate return transportation for the children you drove." That's what she should have done, but it probably didn't occur to her because it was only going to be a few minutes. But banning her from driving on future field trips because of what was basically a "stuff happens" situation I think is an overreaction.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Please pass the Calgon on October 08, 2013, 11:53:39 PM
Preschools don't usually have busses.
The school van then, which she did say they have.

Having taken kids on field trips, there is a pretty significant difference.
Having taken kids on plenty of field trips myself, my point was that parents are well within their rights to request that their child ride only in the school's vehicle (be it a van, bus or horse drawn wagon). The size of said vehicle has very little to do with it. That said, if there are more requests than # of seats in whichever vehicle there may be occasions that either your child misses the trip or Mom/Dad needs to drive.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Miss Unleaded on October 09, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
I think if the timing was so close that a delay in traffic would cause problems with the other school, the other mother should have arranged at the pumpkin patch for the OP's child to travel back with someone else, or at least let them know she might possibly have to take a detour.   In cases like these I wouldn't have left it to chance that I'd have time to make it.  Additionally, if I couldn't reach someone, I wouldn't assume they'd have gotten my message; I'd try calling the landline the OP mentioned previously to make double sure someone knows.  So from my perspective I understand why the other mum did that but I don't think she took all the steps she should have taken, and I definitely think the school should give her a talking to about appropriate actions in similar situations.  I also don't think the OP is out of line to complain, and to not want her child sent with the other mother again.  I think the other parent showed remarkably poor judgement in the way she handled this and I wouldn't trust her not to mess up again.

If I was the OP, I'd also be concerned about whether the school insurance covers the detour other mother took picking up her kids.  If there had been an accident and OP's child was hospitalised, would ambulance and medical care be covered by the school our would the OP be out of pocket?  I think that's also something I'd want some assurance about.

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Zizi-K on October 09, 2013, 07:46:03 AM
I'm thinking like tardy mom.

I know it's my time to volunteer to drive.
I'm told we are to be back by 2:45 which gives me 15 min to get to my older kids school.
We leave the field trip a little later than expected, but it should still be able to drop off at the preschool and make it to my kids school on time.
Traffic is horrible. I'll never make it on time. My kids go to a public school with zero tolerance for late parents.
I leave a message for preschool director that I'll be late.(unfortunately she doesn't get it)
I'm transporting kids and in school zones so no time to make more calls.
I pick up my kids a few minutes late and arrive at preschool 10 min after the other parents.
I get death stares from a mom. Didn't the director pass on my message?

I think this scenario is highly plausible, even likely. It's not like she showed up with a car full of groceries. I can sympathize with the OP - it would have been a tense 10 minutes, wondering where your kid was, getting more and more nervous, thoughts possibly turning to scary scenarios. And I think you'd be within your rights to bring it up with the preschool *once*, but after that I'd let it go. I would guess that the mom was rushing, thinking that she could still be almost on time, and realizing that making calls while driving is dangerous. Everyone is trying to do their best in this scenario, I would assume.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 09, 2013, 07:52:52 AM
OP has already spoken to the director. The director was very apologetic. At this point the director should speak to the driver.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Goosey on October 09, 2013, 08:07:48 AM
There are more issues here than the volunteer mom.

The school needs to work on its time management on field trips as well. And they also need to have land-line phones available to take messages and pass them on asap - in person, if need be (otherwise, could be a parent driver stuck in traffic who can't get a hold of anyone and worried parents, etc). Their policies aren't very thorough right now.

I do think the volunteer driver should have called her kids' school when she couldn't reach the principal and see what she could work out with them. I don't think leaving a message was sufficient when she was being trusted with other peoples' kids.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: MissRose on October 09, 2013, 08:07:50 AM
When my sister's kids were in elementary school (and the school did have preschool and pre-k in same building), field trips were done with district buses much like the experiences my sister and I had at the same age.  Teachers and parent volunteers were on the buses with us.

My mother would be often be a chaperone as my sister worked during the day and seldom could get off work to volunteer.  If my mother had to drove separate from the buses, I have no idea as I was at work during the day myself.  From what she has told me, she never had to transport other kids besides her own grandkids as she had the correct sized car/booster seats for them already in her car.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: AbbyW on October 09, 2013, 08:41:35 AM
We use parent volunteers as drivers for my Girl Scout troop.  My suggestion to the director is that each driver should have the emergency contact info for the children that they are driving and the children's parents should have the driver's contact information. 
Girl Scouts also require my drivers to have a copy of each passengers health history forms.  I place a copy in a sealed envelope, only to be opened in case of an emergency.
We also had an issue at school where the bus was separated by the parent drivers by a huge accident.  There was an hour delay between the two. Thankfully the parent drivers were able to call other parents directly and explain what happened.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Harriet Jones on October 09, 2013, 08:48:24 AM
For all of our preschool field trips, the school either rented school buses (which all the kids had to ride) or their own parents drove.  No carpooling unless the parents made arrangements with each other.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 09:04:26 AM
OP has already spoken to the director. The director was very apologetic. At this point the director should speak to the driver.

Exactly.  Maybe the director has spoken to the driver.  Maybe the director doesn't think its a big deal.

The Op only asked what she should say to the mother the next time she sees her.  I would say - nothing. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 09:11:42 AM
For all of our preschool field trips, the school either rented school buses (which all the kids had to ride) or their own parents drove.  No carpooling unless the parents made arrangements with each other.


I think your school is doing it exactly the right way, but the cost of renting buses is such that most preschool would cancel all field trips rather than incur the additional cost.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Roe on October 09, 2013, 09:43:38 AM
When my son went to a private preschool, they tried to pull something similar. 

First off, I made sure I could either attend every field trip or I wouldn't let my child go on it.  The first field trip of the year, the teacher tried to convince me to take (and therefore be responsible for) 3 other children.  They didn't even have their car seats/boosters.  I refused to accept that responsibility and just took my son to and from the field trip.  I just wasn't comfortable with accepting that weight without discussing it with the parents.  (and even then, I probably wouldn't have done it)  And yes, the school did do background checks but fingerprints (as a PP mentioned) was not part of the check.

OP, to keep this from happening again, I suggest you either make it to the field trips or keep your son at school during the field trips. 

Good luck!
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: PastryGoddess on October 09, 2013, 09:49:45 AM
Scouting is a lot different than schools and daycare.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 09, 2013, 10:56:05 AM
We use parent volunteers as drivers for my Girl Scout troop.  My suggestion to the director is that each driver should have the emergency contact info for the children that they are driving and the children's parents should have the driver's contact information. 
Girl Scouts also require my drivers to have a copy of each passengers health history forms.  I place a copy in a sealed envelope, only to be opened in case of an emergency.
We also had an issue at school where the bus was separated by the parent drivers by a huge accident.  There was an hour delay between the two. Thankfully the parent drivers were able to call other parents directly and explain what happened.

I think an idea like this is absolutely something the OP can pursue--it would be the appropriate next step.

In other words, it's not polite to continue to berate someone once an apology has been tendered. If you're not emotionally ready to accept the apology, you need to do your "simmering down" on your own time, not as a continued attack on others.

But you *can* politely bring up alternate plans to prevent the problem from happening again.

You can bring them up to the other mother, as a way to say, "this was probably stressful for both of us, and if we brought this solution to the director, it could avoid problems like this completely."

I think to the other mother, the OP could say, "what happened last week?" And could say, *lightly*, "Yeah, i had a couple of scary moments" in a *sharing* sort of way, but absolutely not in a "you did me wrong" way.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 09, 2013, 11:05:46 AM
OP here again. 

I've been thinking a lot about this and the related etiquette, and I've come to this conclusion.  I probably would have talked to the director of the preschool no matter what, but there is one simple etiquette related thing late Mom could have done that would have made this whole situation better. 

If she had gotten out of her vehicle and seen me standing there and said, "I'm sorry we're late.  I really had to stop and pick up my other kids.  The school is really harsh about it,"  I probably would have understood.  I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have understood.

Instead, she broke the rules, worried me, and took my child where she had no right to take him and this was the explanation I got: (shrug) "I had to pick up my other kids.  I couldn't just leave them standing there." (hair toss)

Even if everything else went wrong, her phone exploded, and she was caught in a huge traffic jam,  and the whole thing was an act of the gods, and not her own doing when she got out of that car she owed me an apology not attitude.
I think she more than deserved the glare of death. 

I'm not going to chase her down for an apology.  I already got several from the preschool director.  And yes, for the rest of the year either DH or I will probably be on the field trips.  But she was still really rude. 

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 09, 2013, 11:14:58 AM
Then again, if she got the glare of death -before- she had a change to actually say anything to you, she was on the defensive. I would have been. The person glaring at me would really piss me off--they're leaving me no room to actually apologize--I get "attacked" before I've even opened my mouth.
     I've got more self-control than to act flippantly in return, simply because doing so only escalates things. But I subtract about 60% of the remorse when I'm treated like that.
    Actually, I'd be pissed if I got the glare of death -after- I apologized. Even more so, probably.

I think the glare of death is an incredibly rude thing, actually. In almost every situation. She was rude. But I think you were as well.

The truth is that your child was never in any danger. He was late, but he was perfectly safe. She was doing a favor to the daycare community by transporting your child. In return, perhaps she expected some flexibility, especially if they were late leaving.

I know that I would expect to be treated civilly. And glaring at me is not civil.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Deetee on October 09, 2013, 11:18:47 AM
OP here again. 

I've been thinking a lot about this and the related etiquette, and I've come to this conclusion.  I probably would have talked to the director of the preschool no matter what, but there is one simple etiquette related thing late Mom could have done that would have made this whole situation better. 

If she had gotten out of her vehicle and seen me standing there and said, "I'm sorry we're late.  I really had to stop and pick up my other kids.  The school is really harsh about it,"  I probably would have understood.  I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have understood.

Instead, she broke the rules, worried me, and took my child where she had no right to take him and this was the explanation I got: (shrug) "I had to pick up my other kids.  I couldn't just leave them standing there." (hair toss)

Even if everything else went wrong, her phone exploded, and she was caught in a huge traffic jam,  and the whole thing was an act of the gods, and not her own doing when she got out of that car she owed me an apology not attitude.
I think she more than deserved the glare of death. 

I'm not going to chase her down for an apology.  I already got several from the preschool director.  And yes, for the rest of the year either DH or I will probably be on the field trips.  But she was still really rude.

It's amazing what an apology will (or would have) done, isn't it? I was in the swimming pool last night and a kid (maybe 8 or 9?) was tossing a ball against the wall. It made an errant bounce and landed right on nose. My annoyance instantly dissipated when he looked straight at me and said "I'm sorry about that".

I know that I may have ended up in the late parents shoes as time hopped away and I may have not noticed we were leaving late until I was in the car and in traffic and looking at the clock, but I know I would have been apologizing for the inconvenience before I even got out of the car.

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 09, 2013, 11:32:22 AM
Wjen she first got out of tje vehicle sje didn't knpw her call had failed to go through, right? Sje initially assumed everybody knew what was  up when sje was getting the glare?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: lisztchick on October 09, 2013, 11:33:22 AM
I agree that ten minutes isn't too much of a big deal....and it really wouldn't have been a big deal if the other mother had actually apologized! This issue is that (as OP stated) this other mother took her child somewhere else....someplace that was not part of the scheduled agenda. Parents give their permission for their children to go on field trips; the OP didn't give her permission for her child to go anywhere else. I wouldn't have minded waiting ten minutes....things happen. But I like to know where my child is at all times. At school? Check. En route to the pumpkin patch? Check. Pumpkin patch? Check. Detour to a school I've never been to before to pick up older children I've never met? NO.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: scansons on October 09, 2013, 11:36:46 AM
Then again, if she got the glare of death -before- she had a change to actually say anything to you, she was on the defensive. I would have been. The person glaring at me would really piss me off--they're leaving me no room to actually apologize--I get "attacked" before I've even opened my mouth.
     I've got more self-control than to act flippantly in return, simply because doing so only escalates things. But I subtract about 60% of the remorse when I'm treated like that.
    Actually, I'd be pissed if I got the glare of death -after- I apologized. Even more so, probably.

I think the glare of death is an incredibly rude thing, actually. In almost every situation. She was rude. But I think you were as well.

The truth is that your child was never in any danger. He was late, but he was perfectly safe. She was doing a favor to the daycare community by transporting your child. In return, perhaps she expected some flexibility, especially if they were late leaving.

I know that I would expect to be treated civilly. And glaring at me is not civil.

What an interesting assumption. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: SiotehCat on October 09, 2013, 11:50:44 AM
I think other mother was absolutely wrong and should not be driving in the future. She knew the rules and chose to ignore them. That's wrong.

Also,had it been my child, I would have been furious.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: MommyPenguin on October 09, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
One issue that occurs to me is... what if the OP, or the parents of other kids in the late car, had also needed to pick up kids at a certain time?  I think that mostly this was the fault of the preschool not ending their field trip on time.  Getting back late, when parents have made plans for pickups, etc., can really put parents in a tight spot.  The mom did try to call, after all, and wouldn't have known that the director didn't receive the message until later.  And as for leaving a message instead of talking to a person... if the only number she had wasn't being picked up, exactly how was she going to force the director to answer?  I don't really blame her as much as the other people on here.  She's going to have to worry *somebody*, either her kids, her kids' school, or the carpooled kids' parents.  And all because the field trip went later than it was scheduled to.

I do think the best thing might have been to tell somebody as they were leaving the field trip location.  They might have either given her permission, helped her to shuffle her carpooled kids into somebody else's car, or called her older kids' school to explain the situation, teacher-to-teacher.  But I could certainly see, say, the field trip ending at 1:30, but then the mom has to take the kids to the bathroom, and walk a long way to/through the parking lot, one kid is whining and tired and walking at a snail's pace, then you get the kids buckled into their carseats, and now it's 2:10 and all of a sudden you have a 50-minute drive back, but you're also supposed to pick up your kids at 3pm sharp, etc.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 11:57:24 AM
OP here again. 

I've been thinking a lot about this and the related etiquette, and I've come to this conclusion.  I probably would have talked to the director of the preschool no matter what, but there is one simple etiquette related thing late Mom could have done that would have made this whole situation better. 

If she had gotten out of her vehicle and seen me standing there and said, "I'm sorry we're late.  I really had to stop and pick up my other kids.  The school is really harsh about it,"  I probably would have understood.  I wouldn't have been happy, but I would have understood.

Instead, she broke the rules, worried me, and took my child where she had no right to take him and this was the explanation I got: (shrug) "I had to pick up my other kids.  I couldn't just leave them standing there." (hair toss)

Even if everything else went wrong, her phone exploded, and she was caught in a huge traffic jam,  and the whole thing was an act of the gods, and not her own doing when she got out of that car she owed me an apology not attitude.
I think she more than deserved the glare of death. 

I'm not going to chase her down for an apology.  I already got several from the preschool director.  And yes, for the rest of the year either DH or I will probably be on the field trips.  But she was still really rude.

Okay this makes it a very different issue.  The problem really was the 10 minutes plus the attitude.  The 10 minutes alone didn't seem like that big a deal to me, but with the attitude I can see why you were upset.  I would still advise saying nothing. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 09, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
Then again, if she got the glare of death -before- she had a change to actually say anything to you, she was on the defensive. I would have been. The person glaring at me would really piss me off--they're leaving me no room to actually apologize--I get "attacked" before I've even opened my mouth.
     I've got more self-control than to act flippantly in return, simply because doing so only escalates things. But I subtract about 60% of the remorse when I'm treated like that.
    Actually, I'd be pissed if I got the glare of death -after- I apologized. Even more so, probably.

I think the glare of death is an incredibly rude thing, actually. In almost every situation. She was rude. But I think you were as well.

The truth is that your child was never in any danger. He was late, but he was perfectly safe. She was doing a favor to the daycare community by transporting your child. In return, perhaps she expected some flexibility, especially if they were late leaving.

I know that I would expect to be treated civilly. And glaring at me is not civil.

What an interesting assumption.

Well, actually, I wasn't assuming anything--that's why I used the word "if" -and- addressed the concept of getting the glare after an apology.

Even if the glare only came after her half-hearted apology, I have to confess: I don't think the "glare of death" is polite.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
Then again, if she got the glare of death -before- she had a change to actually say anything to you, she was on the defensive. I would have been. The person glaring at me would really piss me off--they're leaving me no room to actually apologize--I get "attacked" before I've even opened my mouth.
     I've got more self-control than to act flippantly in return, simply because doing so only escalates things. But I subtract about 60% of the remorse when I'm treated like that.
    Actually, I'd be pissed if I got the glare of death -after- I apologized. Even more so, probably.

I think the glare of death is an incredibly rude thing, actually. In almost every situation. She was rude. But I think you were as well.

The truth is that your child was never in any danger. He was late, but he was perfectly safe. She was doing a favor to the daycare community by transporting your child. In return, perhaps she expected some flexibility, especially if they were late leaving.

I know that I would expect to be treated civilly. And glaring at me is not civil.

What an interesting assumption.

Well, actually, I wasn't assuming anything--that's why I used the word "if" -and- addressed the concept of getting the glare after an apology.

Even if the glare only came after her half-hearted apology, I have to confess: I don't think the "glare of death" is polite.

I have to agree with Toots.  This offense (even with the attitude) did not rise to the "glare of death". 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Roe on October 09, 2013, 12:31:03 PM
Then again, if she got the glare of death -before- she had a change to actually say anything to you, she was on the defensive. I would have been. The person glaring at me would really piss me off--they're leaving me no room to actually apologize--I get "attacked" before I've even opened my mouth.
     I've got more self-control than to act flippantly in return, simply because doing so only escalates things. But I subtract about 60% of the remorse when I'm treated like that.
    Actually, I'd be pissed if I got the glare of death -after- I apologized. Even more so, probably.

I think the glare of death is an incredibly rude thing, actually. In almost every situation. She was rude. But I think you were as well.

The truth is that your child was never in any danger. He was late, but he was perfectly safe. She was doing a favor to the daycare community by transporting your child. In return, perhaps she expected some flexibility, especially if they were late leaving.

I know that I would expect to be treated civilly. And glaring at me is not civil.

What an interesting assumption.

Well, actually, I wasn't assuming anything--that's why I used the word "if" -and- addressed the concept of getting the glare after an apology.

Even if the glare only came after her half-hearted apology, I have to confess: I don't think the "glare of death" is polite.

I have to agree with Toots.  This offense (even with the attitude) did not rise to the "glare of death".


Maybe it doesn't rise to the level of the glare of death for you or Toots but for me, it definitely does! 

This lady took OP's son to a location that she didn't have permission to take him too, plus she was late, and on top of everything gave her attitude. Sorry but the OP is much kinder than a few people I know, who would've thrown in  a few choice words.  You don't take liberties with other people's children and expect to get a smile and a "no problem." 

And for those saying "It was only 10 mins"...10 minutes can seem like an eternity when you don't know where your child is!   

If the glare of death alone is enough to "piss" you off, then the fact that a person broke the rules and took your child somewhere they didn't have permission to take them should do more than "piss" you off.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 09, 2013, 12:32:29 PM
I want to say, I can certainly understand the OP's annoyance, and I think there is a problem that needs to be solved for future trips.

I just don't like dirty looks. I think you can convey your displeasure through a simple lack of friendliness (especially in our culture).

Quote
You don't take liberties with other people's children and expect to get a smile and a "no problem." 

That's not what I think the OP should have done, at all. I did not in any way say that.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 12:58:34 PM
I want to say, I can certainly understand the OP's annoyance, and I think there is a problem that needs to be solved for future trips.

I just don't like dirty looks. I think you can convey your displeasure through a simple lack of friendliness (especially in our culture).

Quote
You don't take liberties with other people's children and expect to get a smile and a "no problem." 

That's not what I think the OP should have done, at all. I did not in any way say that.

I would be pissed at the woman's attitude too.  But "glare of death".  Nope.  Not for 10 minutes tardiness. Not with another parent that you may be stuck with for the next 13 years.  Whose kid could become your kids BFF at some point.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Emmy on October 09, 2013, 01:28:00 PM
I don't know what this woman was supposed to do. The field trip ran late, which presumably made her late for picking up her own kids, for which there can be penalties, or safety issues. So she has the choice to either stop and get them on the way, which it sounds like she did, or drive the school kids back, drop them off, then go back for her kids, making her possibly 20 minutes later in the other direction to get her own kids. Depending on how old they are could be stuck in the principal's office with some overzealous teacher calling the authorities because their parent hasn't picked them up (no cell phone coverage, so the mum couldn't be called herself to find out where she was) or, if they're older, may have been waiting outside the school gates on their own. I think she did the best she could in a difficult situation.

I agree with those who say if the OP wants that much control over a few minutes, she should drive the kids herself.

I think it is unfair that so many people are so harsh on the driver.  It sounds as if the trip lasted an hour late, which is not her fault.  Should she just leave her own kids waiting alone and confused for several minutes while she went back to the school?  Would anybody in her position honestly do that to their own children?  She tried to call the director, but I don't see what else she could have done besides leaving her own children to wait.  The problem wasn't caused by her time management issues, but the pre-school's time management.  I imagine that she would not have agreed to drive for the trip if she thought there was a chance the trip could run an hour late and interfere with her other kids getting out of school.  I can understand the OP being worried and a bit annoyed, but I do think it is surprising that she doesn't have any sympathy for this mom's situation. 

I do agree that the other mom should have made more of an effort to let another driver or somebody else know she needed to pick up her kids.  The other mom maybe could have left the field trip early if possible to get back to the school on time.  If it was me, I would be way more upset at the school for being an hour late than the other mom who was caught in the same situation.  I agree with the others that unless you want to make an enemy, you should talk to the school instead of the other mom.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 09, 2013, 01:32:40 PM
Most everyone seems to br focusing on this mother being late but that is not really the problem here.  If that mother had not been late would she have feased up about the detour or would the OP have found out from her child?

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

And the school cannot give you permission to take someone else's child with you to pick up your kids.  Obviously, they can't because they have a rule against it.

Going on a field trip one is given very limited and structured permission for looking after the children in the class.  It only incudes driving back to the school and not anywhere else.  Not to your house, not to your children's school.  About the only place that is understandable would be the ER in the case of an emergency.  You should not even be stopping to gas up your car.

It shows very bad judgement on the part of this mother who did this and the school should take a much stronger approach in dealing with her.

What should the OP have done?  Assuming that the OP could get her emotions in check, which would have been hard for me, you tell the other mother "you should not have taken my child anywhere else but back here to the school."

And when other mother offered her excuses...

"It doesn't matter,  You didn't have permission to do what you did."

I think she got off easy only getting the glare of death.  Something needs to be said to her so that she recognizes the seriousness of her actions.  She may persist in thinking that it was no big deal, but it certainly was and she needs to not ever do that again.

It might be OK in some instances with older children who have some capacity and permission from their parents to make their own decisions, but never a five year old.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: zainabzks on October 09, 2013, 01:33:01 PM
Then she should have told someone before leaving with the OP's son. I would be very angry too if a parent did that to my child. School rules are there for a reason. Every field trip I go on, the teachers always reiterate and write it on a paper that we are to take the students directly to the venue and back to school with no detours.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Sharnita on October 09, 2013, 01:36:33 PM
I think the non-preschool kids in the car probably would have tipped people off that she had made a nonscheduled stop, if she would have had to do it at all. If the school had been on time she might not have had to get her kids until after so maybe none of it would have happened.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: BeagleMommy on October 09, 2013, 01:36:44 PM
OP, I'm not going to get into any "what if" situations.  I believe you don't need to say anything to the woman who was driving.  It is acceptable for you to say to the director or teacher "I don't want my child traveling with Mrs. Jones due to an issue that occured last time.  If DH or I are not available to drive, please make sure my child is with someone other than Mrs. Jones.  If that is not possible, please let me know and I'll make other arrangements."

It may be time for the school to revise their field trip policies.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: turnip on October 09, 2013, 01:39:20 PM
You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

We don't know how old the other children are.  If they are 6 & 7, and too young to be left unsupervised for 30 minutes while the mother takes back the kids from the field trip, then the other mother may not have had much of a choice.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: TootsNYC on October 09, 2013, 01:58:33 PM

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simply do not do it.


Depending on the ages of the other mom's kids, their *actual* safety (If they would have been old enough to be left standing outside, or left to walk home on their own) and their *actual* emotional comfort (if they were worried about where their mom was--I remember imagining that my mother had decided to abandon me) might have been genuinely at risk.

The OP's child was completely safe. He was probably also completely happy and entertained, etc. He was never at actual risk.


I sympathize with the OP--truly, I do. I understand why she was upset.

I don't think this mother should have volunteered to drive if she had any afternoon deadline (which she did).

I think the preschool needs to pay closer attention to the situations of those parents who become "authorized drivers" for trips, and reject any who have other commitments like picking up their own kids from school. They need to *not* say, "Oh, we should be back by that time."

I think the preschool needs to create better webs of communication. What if this woman *had* run into automobile difficulty--a fender bender, a flat tire, etc.? She needed numbers of several people that she could call.

I think the OP is perfectly within all bounds of etiquette to pursue these points with the preschool, using this unhappy experience as her leverage.
  I hope she does, because this was not an ideal situation at all.

As for her original question, what to say to the mom: The OP has already glared at her, so the mom knows the OP is unhappy about the situation and blames her for [as the other mom would see it] "not sacrificing her own children for the OP's son."  What else is there that the OP wants to communicate?

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: wolfie on October 09, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: NyaChan on October 09, 2013, 02:04:23 PM
Emmy - she could have called her own kids' school to tell them that she was running late.  And yes, I know some places have consequences for that, but that's just one of the things that I think people have to learn to accept will happen on occasion when you live in the world with other people.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Roe on October 09, 2013, 02:07:01 PM

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simply do not do it.




The OP's child was completely safe. He was probably also completely happy and entertained, etc. He was never at actual risk.

For 10 mins, the OP did not know that to be the case.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: perpetua on October 09, 2013, 02:07:54 PM
Emmy - she could have called her own kids' school to tell them that she was running late.  And yes, I know some places have consequences for that, but that's just one of the things that I think people have to learn to accept will happen on occasion when you live in the world with other people.

People keep saying this, but the OP has already stated that mobile phone coverage in her area is woeful. Maybe she couldn't. And since she was already late due to the pre-school's irresponsibility in running the activity late, what was she supposed to do - take more time trying to find a payphone and make herself even later so people could complain even more?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:10:42 PM
Most everyone seems to br focusing on this mother being late but that is not really the problem here.  If that mother had not been late would she have feased up about the detour or would the OP have found out from her child?

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

And the school cannot give you permission to take someone else's child with you to pick up your kids.  Obviously, they can't because they have a rule against it.

Going on a field trip one is given very limited and structured permission for looking after the children in the class.  It only incudes driving back to the school and not anywhere else.  Not to your house, not to your children's school.  About the only place that is understandable would be the ER in the case of an emergency.  You should not even be stopping to gas up your car.

It shows very bad judgement on the part of this mother who did this and the school should take a much stronger approach in dealing with her.

What should the OP have done?  Assuming that the OP could get her emotions in check, which would have been hard for me, you tell the other mother "you should not have taken my child anywhere else but back here to the school."

And when other mother offered her excuses...

"It doesn't matter,  You didn't have permission to do what you did."

I think she got off easy only getting the glare of death.  Something needs to be said to her so that she recognizes the seriousness of her actions.  She may persist in thinking that it was no big deal, but it certainly was and she needs to not ever do that again.

It might be OK in some instances with older children who have some capacity and permission from their parents to make their own decisions, but never a five year old.

Really?  What if the light goes on? 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: NyaChan on October 09, 2013, 02:12:07 PM
Emmy - she could have called her own kids' school to tell them that she was running late.  And yes, I know some places have consequences for that, but that's just one of the things that I think people have to learn to accept will happen on occasion when you live in the world with other people.

People keep saying this, but the OP has already stated that mobile phone coverage in her area is woeful. Maybe she couldn't. And since she was already late due to the pre-school's irresponsibility in running the activity late, what was she supposed to do - take more time trying to find a payphone and make herself even later so people could complain even more?

My understanding is that cell phone coverage for the principal was bad, not that the mom was unable to make calls - clearly she could if she managed to leave a message at the preschool.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:14:15 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Outdoor Girl on October 09, 2013, 02:17:31 PM
I wouldn't have said anything to the tardy Mom.  And she would have gotten a glare from me.  Not so much a death glare but a 'I'm am clenching my teeth and biting my tongue to avoid saying anything I shouldn't' glare.  Getting the 'apology' she gave?  Then she'd get the death glare.  Or a tongue lashing.  Or both.

OP, I think you did the correct thing in talking to the director.  And in future, if you or your husband are unable to drive, I think it is perfectly reasonable to let them know that you do not want your child in Ms. Tardy's vehicle and if they are unable to arrange that, let you know so that you may make alternate arrangements.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: NyaChan on October 09, 2013, 02:18:11 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

I get what people are saying, but if someone tells me that the school has arranged for my hypothetical child to go somewhere and come straight back and I give them permission to do that, I expect them to follow through.  I don't see why they get to go back on what they've promised me just because I wasn't present on that trip to object in the moment. 

Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 09, 2013, 02:20:54 PM
Most everyone seems to br focusing on this mother being late but that is not really the problem here.  If that mother had not been late would she have feased up about the detour or would the OP have found out from her child?

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

And the school cannot give you permission to take someone else's child with you to pick up your kids.  Obviously, they can't because they have a rule against it.

Going on a field trip one is given very limited and structured permission for looking after the children in the class.  It only incudes driving back to the school and not anywhere else.  Not to your house, not to your children's school.  About the only place that is understandable would be the ER in the case of an emergency.  You should not even be stopping to gas up your car.

It shows very bad judgement on the part of this mother who did this and the school should take a much stronger approach in dealing with her.

What should the OP have done?  Assuming that the OP could get her emotions in check, which would have been hard for me, you tell the other mother "you should not have taken my child anywhere else but back here to the school."

And when other mother offered her excuses...

"It doesn't matter,  You didn't have permission to do what you did."

I think she got off easy only getting the glare of death.  Something needs to be said to her so that she recognizes the seriousness of her actions.  She may persist in thinking that it was no big deal, but it certainly was and she needs to not ever do that again.

It might be OK in some instances with older children who have some capacity and permission from their parents to make their own decisions, but never a five year old.

Really?  What if the light goes on?

You gas it up before you go.  Isn't that common sense?
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:22:51 PM
OP - I'm curious, could you post a copy of the rules for the drivers at your preschool?  I've never been given any type of rules when I've driven kids for scouts.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 09, 2013, 02:23:19 PM
You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

We don't know how old the other children are.  If they are 6 & 7, and too young to be left unsupervised for 30 minutes while the mother takes back the kids from the field trip, then the other mother may not have had much of a choice.

If her children are at school they are not unsupervised so that doesn't matter.  And besides that is her problem, no the OP and not the school even though the activity ran a little late.  It doesn't excuse taking someone else's child somewhere you have no permission to take them.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:24:44 PM
Most everyone seems to br focusing on this mother being late but that is not really the problem here.  If that mother had not been late would she have feased up about the detour or would the OP have found out from her child?

You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

And the school cannot give you permission to take someone else's child with you to pick up your kids.  Obviously, they can't because they have a rule against it.

Going on a field trip one is given very limited and structured permission for looking after the children in the class.  It only incudes driving back to the school and not anywhere else.  Not to your house, not to your children's school.  About the only place that is understandable would be the ER in the case of an emergency.  You should not even be stopping to gas up your car.

It shows very bad judgement on the part of this mother who did this and the school should take a much stronger approach in dealing with her.

What should the OP have done?  Assuming that the OP could get her emotions in check, which would have been hard for me, you tell the other mother "you should not have taken my child anywhere else but back here to the school."

And when other mother offered her excuses...

"It doesn't matter,  You didn't have permission to do what you did."

I think she got off easy only getting the glare of death.  Something needs to be said to her so that she recognizes the seriousness of her actions.  She may persist in thinking that it was no big deal, but it certainly was and she needs to not ever do that again.

It might be OK in some instances with older children who have some capacity and permission from their parents to make their own decisions, but never a five year old.

Really?  What if the light goes on?

You gas it up before you go.  Isn't that common sense?

Unless your husband drives it the evening before, or you think you are going to do it in the morning but are running late.  Stuff happens. Volunteers are not employees.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: wolfie on October 09, 2013, 02:26:33 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

None of that matters. The driver still broke the rules. She was not allowed to take someone else's child anywhere but straight back to the pre-k. The fact that nothing happened doesn't change that the rules were broken and that the rules are in place for a reason. We aren't allowed to randomly break rules because it is easier for us if we did that.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:27:21 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

I get what people are saying, but if someone tells me that the school has arranged for my hypothetical child to go somewhere and come straight back and I give them permission to do that, I expect them to follow through.  I don't see why they get to go back on what they've promised me just because I wasn't present on that trip to object in the moment.

Well that is exactly what did happen.  If she wants to prevent it she needs to be there. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:29:23 PM
You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

We don't know how old the other children are.  If they are 6 & 7, and too young to be left unsupervised for 30 minutes while the mother takes back the kids from the field trip, then the other mother may not have had much of a choice.

If her children are at school they are not unsupervised so that doesn't matter.  And besides that is her problem, no the OP and not the school even though the activity ran a little late.  It doesn't excuse taking someone else's child somewhere you have no permission to take them.

You are right, it was the drivers problem and she solved it.  I don't blame her for putting her childrens' welfare above another parents. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: wolfie on October 09, 2013, 02:29:50 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

I get what people are saying, but if someone tells me that the school has arranged for my hypothetical child to go somewhere and come straight back and I give them permission to do that, I expect them to follow through.  I don't see why they get to go back on what they've promised me just because I wasn't present on that trip to object in the moment.

Well that is exactly what did happen.  If she wants to prevent it she needs to be there.

I think that the school needs to step in here and do something too. It really shouldn't be on parents to ensure that school rules are followed. I know it happened. I just disagree that it was an acceptable thing to happen and that the school shouldn't do something to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: Poppea on October 09, 2013, 02:33:11 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

I get what people are saying, but if someone tells me that the school has arranged for my hypothetical child to go somewhere and come straight back and I give them permission to do that, I expect them to follow through.  I don't see why they get to go back on what they've promised me just because I wasn't present on that trip to object in the moment.

Well that is exactly what did happen.  If she wants to prevent it she needs to be there.

I think that the school needs to step in here and do something too. It really shouldn't be on parents to ensure that school rules are followed. I know it happened. I just disagree that it was an acceptable thing to happen and that the school shouldn't do something to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future.

The rules were there for a reason.  I'm not saying its acceptable.  But stuff happens and if volunteers are driving they are also going to make judgement calls.  The school should make sure it doesn't happen again.  But one way the OP can ensure that she doesn't worry like this again is to drive her own child.  Even if Mrs Tardy is forbidden from driving OPs son again, the next mother may have an different issue come up. 
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: wolfie on October 09, 2013, 02:37:18 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that unless you volunteer that you aren't allowed to expect other volunteers to follow the rules set down by the school. Whether or not the OP volunteers doesn't matter. The rules were that a driver may not make any stops but had to go straight to the pre-school. The driver broke those rules. It doesn't matter if we think that the rules should have been bent for her circumstances - the rules are there for a reason.

If you don't volunteer you really have no way of knowing what is going on with your child.  If ten minutes is going to upset you then you should be driving your own child.  The OPs child was never in an unsafe position.

I get what people are saying, but if someone tells me that the school has arranged for my hypothetical child to go somewhere and come straight back and I give them permission to do that, I expect them to follow through.  I don't see why they get to go back on what they've promised me just because I wasn't present on that trip to object in the moment.

Well that is exactly what did happen.  If she wants to prevent it she needs to be there.

I think that the school needs to step in here and do something too. It really shouldn't be on parents to ensure that school rules are followed. I know it happened. I just disagree that it was an acceptable thing to happen and that the school shouldn't do something to ensure it doesn't happen again in the future.

The rules were there for a reason.  I'm not saying its acceptable.  But stuff happens and if volunteers are driving they are also going to make judgement calls.  The school should make sure it doesn't happen again.  But one way the OP can ensure that she doesn't worry like this again is to drive her own child.  Even if Mrs Tardy is forbidden from driving OPs son again, the next mother may have an different issue come up.

And if the OP can't drive then she is SOL and should just be happy her son made it back in one piece? I think there are more options then "put up with whatever happens and be grateful" and "do it all yourself". The school should be having a reminder to drivers that this is not permitted and if it happens whoever is doing the driving will not be allowed to do it again and/or that field trips will be cancelled if they can't rely on their volunteers to follow the rules. Volunteers who aren't following rules are doing more damage then good and shouldn't be allowed to continue to undermine the school.
Title: Re: Field Trip drivers
Post by: JoieGirl7 on October 09, 2013, 02:38:11 PM
You do not take another person's five year old anywhere other than where you have been given permission to go.  If this means picking up your own kids at school late then so be it.  You just simy do not do it.

We don't know how old the other children are.  If they are 6 & 7, and too young to be left unsupervised for 30 minutes while the mother takes back the kids from the field trip, then the other mother may not have had much of a choice.

If her children are at school they are not unsupervised so that doesn't matter.  And besides that is her problem, no the OP and not the school even though the activity ran a little late.  It doesn't excuse taking someone else's child somewhere you have no permission to take them.

You are right, it was the drivers problem and she solved it.  I don't blame her for putting her childrens' welfare above another parents.

She solved her problem by breaking the rules!  Her children's welfare was not in danger--they were at school.

Her primary responsibility upon volunteering to drive is to carry out the responsibilities given to her by the school.  If she cannot handle that and her own responsibilities as a mother, then she shouldn't volunteer.