Etiquette Hell

Hostesses With The Mostest => Entertaining and Hospitality => Topic started by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 08:36:49 AM

Title: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 08:36:49 AM
This situation is playing out right now in my circle of extended friends/family.  I primarily know about it because the two main players (Tom and Tina) are both using me as a sounding board/sympathetic ear. 

BG!

Every year Tina uses the occasion of her birthday (early Dec) as an excuse to throw a party and have a lot of people over.  Typically she has a huge buffet spread of small plate items/tapas.  The piece de resistance of the meal/event is The Cake.  The Cake is a recipe that she has from her great-grandmother, and is her favorite cake, but which she only makes once a year where there are a lot of people around to help eat it because it is incredibly rich. 

Enter Tom, who has a fairly new food restriction that means he cannot partake of The Cake. Tom is rather fixated on this fact and is upset that Tina will neither alter the recipe so that he can eat The Cake nor make a different main dessert. 

(It should be noted that there will be plenty of there that Tom can eat.  Tina knows a lot of people with food restrictions and the reason that she always does tapas is so that there will be plenty for all diets.  There will also be other dessert-type items - a fruit and cheese platter and several kinds of ice cream and sorbets.)

Tina is putting her foot down about The Cake.  Her stance is that it is her birthday and she is going to have The Cake.  She contends that there are plenty of other things that Tom can eat and doesn't understand why Tom is "being such a baby" (her words) about the whole thing. She has offered to Tom that she can provide a cupcake just for him from a bakery that caters to his diet if it is that important to him to be able to have "cake" at her party. 

Tom is angry at Tina because he thinks she is being an "ungracious host" (his words) by making a main dessert that not everyone can eat, and is insulted by the idea of the special cupcake for him because "separate is not equal!" (again, his words) He thinks that she should just make The Cake some other time and should be focused on catering to the needs of her guests at the party by making a main dessert that all can enjoy.

Frankly, I want to shake them both a little bit, and I think that they both have points... however, I also think that Tina is trying to be more than accommodating to Tom (and it IS her birthday after all!) and that Tom needs to either learn how to be a gracious guest or just not go to Tina's party.

So, oh ehellions... should I say something to Tom and/or Tina?  Or should I just just smile and nod when they kvetch to me and otherwise stay well out of it?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Harriet Jones on November 11, 2013, 08:42:12 AM

I'd tell Tina not to change The Cake, and tell Tom to suck it up.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Curious Cat on November 11, 2013, 08:42:56 AM
Tom's being a jerk and should stay  home if he's so offended at the idea that his host would get him a special dessert.  Tina is being very generous in offering but would have been under no obligation to do so.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Bethalize on November 11, 2013, 08:43:14 AM
Tom needs to be in the SS thread.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Outdoor Girl on November 11, 2013, 08:44:39 AM
I'm summarizing to make sure I have it right:  Tina is throwing the party, providing all the food, including The Cake.  Tom will be able to eat a lot of the food but not The Cake.  Tina has offered to provide a cupcake that Tom can eat.  And Tom is whining because Tina is still going to serve The Cake, that he can't eat.

Tom is just a tad bit entitled, isn't he?  Tina is fine.  Accommodating doesn't mean catering to.  Tom either needs to suck it up or not attend.

As for what you should do, I'd stay out of it.  At most, I'd tell them to talk to each other and leave you out of it.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MariaE on November 11, 2013, 08:45:22 AM
I'm totally on Team Tina. Even if The Cake was the only dessert available, Tom still wouldn't have a leg to stand on. And as it is? SS and ungracious guest.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cicero on November 11, 2013, 08:51:15 AM
please tell me that tom is 3 years old. please?

so no, he is way out of line. Tina sounds like a very gracious hostess. we are talking about cake - nothing will happen to him if he doesn't have a piece of cake. and he can have cake - tina is willing to get him a piece of GF cake.

My late mother had diabetes (type I). so she would make desserts *for everyone* and then something for herself. she never whined about. she never complained. every now and then she would take a crumb of real cake or a taste of ice cream but otherwise she lived with her illness with utter graciousness.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Luci on November 11, 2013, 09:09:32 AM
Why do you want to shake Tina a little bit? She has said absolutely nothing wrong and will not sully her grandmother's recipe -no matter what you say, any change will make it different to someone, most probably Tina.

Agreed that Tom belongs in the Special Snowflake thread.

(I keep thinking about my lasagne recipe - The One That Will Not Be Changed. If you are allergic to eggs, I will  not change the noodles or leave the eggs out of the ricotta mix. You may have a leftover pork sandwich or don't come. Tom may have a cupcake, keep quiet, or not attend.)

Tina is a lot nicer than I, who would laugh Tom out of the room. Well, not really. But I would want to.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FoxPaws on November 11, 2013, 09:33:21 AM
Accommodating doesn't mean catering to. 
This needs to become one of ehell's go-to phrases if it isn't already.

Tom can't have The Cake, so no one gets The Cake? Tina's right - he is being a baby. And who exactly is going to determine what dessert "all can enjoy"? Tom? Come to think of it, that might be a good learning experience for him - giving him Tina's guest list and letting him find The One Dessert that satisfies everybody's preferences and restrictions.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: lowspark on November 11, 2013, 09:36:40 AM
Probably the best thing is to just stay out of it. However, depending on my relationship with Tom, I'd probably just tell him to quit being a whiny baby and graciously accept the cupcake or else make do with the other (ample!) offerings. Tina's right. Tom's being an SS. He needs to completely back off.

And I'd tell Tina to tell Tom that if he has a better menu in mind, he is perfectly welcome to throw his own party complete with all his own favorites. And that if/when he does, she'll attend and not utter one complaint.

By the way, does Tom ever host a party where he feeds his guests so lavishly? It's always been my experience that the loudest complaints come from people who never actually do the hosting/work/paying/whatever that they are complaining about.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: siamesecat2965 on November 11, 2013, 09:45:22 AM
Tine is fine, Tom is being a big, whiny baby. It's her birthday, her celebration, and SHE is providing all of the food. Including OTHER dessert items that Tom can have. So as someone else pointed out, he can suck it up, or stay home. Esp since she ONLY makes it once a year for HER birthday.

I was recently at a reunion of my mom' college friends, and one had a milestone birthday coming up, so the last night, they had cake for her. Carrot cake which I don't like, but I kept my yap shut, and politely declined it. I didn't make a fuss about not having ANY dessert for ME. it wasn't my day, and it wasn't the end of the world that I didn't get to have cake.

My mom, every year, including into college, made me the same cake for my birthday. Nothing fancy, but just a really rich, yummy choclate cake, that only got better wiht time. And to cut some of the sweetness, the frosting was choc. chips an sour cream. How I miss that cake. She even made it, wrapped it up tight, and mailed it to me for 4 years of college.  It  was tradition! 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 09:58:57 AM
Why do you want to shake Tina a little bit?

Mostly for her tone, I suppose... She is not being very nice about Tom right now ... I suppose that it is one of those "you really had to be there things" as tone doesn't come across well when typed out.  But Tom is really rubbing her the wrong way, and the offer of a special cupcake was a very grudging, very major concession on her part... 

I suppose that this is actually a symptom of a larger issue of restricted (both medically and by choice) diets... Tom has celiac's and has always had wheat gluten issues, but in the past has also had no problems with the occasional "indulgence".  Now, however, he is also a newly fledged vegan and is deep in the "righteous" phase of that conversion...   And he is really alienating a lot of people with it, including Tina.  (And why he is fixated totally on The Cake and is ignoring the other dishes there that will also contain animal products I have no idea...)

What is the best (most etiquette approved) way of talking to Tom about the way he is behaving?  In general and about Tina's party?

Much as I would love to, I don't think telling him "Suck it up, buttercup! This party is not about you, so either go and be gracious or don't go." would work, and it isn't terribly polite either!   :-\

The party is Dec 7 so plenty of time for additional drama between now and then.

(Tina's milestone is turning 40, and Tom is only a year or two younger then her.)

(Edited to add that Tom and Tina are cousins but grew up in an almost brother/sister relationship)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: mime on November 11, 2013, 10:01:22 AM
Accommodating doesn't mean catering to. 
This needs to become one of ehell's go-to phrases if it isn't already.

Tom can't have The Cake, so no one gets The Cake? Tina's right - he is being a baby. And who exactly is going to determine what dessert "all can enjoy"? Tom? Come to think of it, that might be a good learning experience for him - giving him Tina's guest list and letting him find The One Dessert that satisfies everybody's preferences and restrictions.

This is what I was thinking too... I assume Tina's Cake might be nut-free, but is unlikely to be dairy free, gluten free and egg free. There are probably several people who won't be able to eat it for a variety of reasons. Why does Tom think he's so special that the recipie needs to be changed now, for him?

Tina sounds like a thoughtful host for making Tapas that meet a variety of restrictions. The *only* place I can fault her is for calling Tom a big baby (although she has a good point).

I suggest:
Tell Tina to take a higher road with "that won't be possible", and enjoy her cake.
Tell Tom that, upon receiving an invitation, he can accept the hospitality that Tina has extended or reject it, but he doesn't get to make demands of someone else's party.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cwm on November 11, 2013, 10:14:22 AM
I suggest:
Tell Tina to take a higher road with "that won't be possible", and enjoy her cake.
Tell Tom that, upon receiving an invitation, he can accept the hospitality that Tina has extended or reject it, but he doesn't get to make demands of someone else's party.

I second this, and add a further suggestion. Make sure they know that you will not be taking sides in this, and you prefer not to hear about it any more. If they can't act like adults and handle their own problems like adults, then you're not going to be the fill-in adult and solve things for them.

That is, of course, if you mind being in the middle.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Bethalize on November 11, 2013, 10:20:30 AM
Much as I would love to, I don't think telling him "Suck it up, buttercup! This party is not about you, so either go and be gracious or don't go." would work, and it isn't terribly polite either!   :-\

I think you could say: "Tom, this is Tina's party and Tina gets to choose what is served. Your needs are being accommodated; that is as much as you can reasonably expect."
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: metallicafan on November 11, 2013, 10:23:03 AM
I am on Team Tina.  Tom is being a total jerk.  I would stay out of it.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 10:23:32 AM
Quote
I think that they both have points...

I disagree.

I think that only Tina has a point.

Tom is an utter bacon-fed knave.

You could tell him that. Well, no, not really, but you could stop thinking of him as "having a point," and instead simply say, "yeah, I know, Tom, it really sucks to have [celiac/whatever]. I can't imagine how frustrated and angry that must make you at times. But Tina isn't your enemy, and if you can't handle the emotions, you'll need to stay home. Because you don't have a point. You're just wrong."

The *only* thing Tina has done wrong at all is to even argue (she's a perfect candidate for the advice, "don't JADE"). She's generous to go get Tom a gluten-free cupcake (or whatever it is), what a nice lady!

Now she should simply be amused at him. Frankly, he's laughable.


But basically Tina should simply refuse to speak of the topic anymore (as should you), with anyone--but especially with Tom.

There's nothing more to talk about. And anyone who brings it up should be told: "I am not having conversations on this. If you are going to persist in talking about it in ANY way, I am going to have to un-invite you."

In fact, it's time for her to call Tom and say, "Listen--are you going to be able to be pleasant company at my birthday party? Will you be able to keep your mouth shut about the cake? Because if not, then I'm afraid I'll have to un-invite you."

Tom is an utter, complete, and total boor.

And Tina is totally, completely and utterly entitled to call him "a big baby" and to speak of him in whatever scornful tone she wants.

And if you don't want to hear her talk about him that way, maybe you should be saying, "Let's just not talk about this anymore--put it out of your mind. Let's talk about something else, because this conversation is unpleasant."

I did once have my mom tell me that I needed to be aware of how my resentment of someone was changing my personality for the worse--and that since my roommate tat the time was the one creating all the angst for me, I needed to either resolve things with her, or kick her out.

That's something a friend could mention to Tina: "You're letting Tom turn you into a snarky, ungenerous person. He's wrong, of course he's wrong--but when you fixate on him, I hear a tone of voice from you that's totally at odds with who you are really. Can you find a way to mentally move on from him? Even if it means you dis-invite him from the party."

And if she disinvites you, do your part to play down the drama. "Yes, well, Tom wasn't going to enjoy the party, because he's still really struggling with the adjustment of changing his diet so firmly."
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 10:26:14 AM
I am newly diagnosed w/ celiac. I cry because I can't eat cake anymore. Literally. Tears.

I get unreasonably and fiercely angry when I go out to eat and realize that the ONLY things I can safely have are a salad and a baked potato. I'm normally a quite nice person, and I have to struggle harder than I've ever struggled before to not be a Female Dog at restaurants. (sorry--tried to find a less-offensive word, but none of them have the same connotations)

To *always* have the awareness that everything edible around me is -poisonous- to me, that's the hardest thing. I haven't had a big trouble w/ willpower, but I struggle with grief at every meal.

But there's no moral superiority to this--I'd actually have much more sympathy with a vegan who is upset by other people's eating of meat than I do with Tom. He's stuck in the "anger" phase and is alienating everyone who could help him.

Tom is handling his grief badly--maybe by identifying it for what it is, you can help him a little. And that might be a way to help Tina come to terms with it and find a way to be in a more settled frame of mind while she *still lives the proper boundaries.* 

And by identifying it as such, you  might be able to help other people in the family/friends circle frame THEIR reactions in a way that's lower in the drama quotient.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: #borecore on November 11, 2013, 10:27:40 AM
Actually, "Suck it up, buttercup! This party is not about you, so either go and be gracious or don't go." seems like a highly appropriate response. It's what I'd say.

Those of us with allergies and different dietary choices do need to suck it up or not go, or find our own solutions that don't require a ton of work from our hosts. And we certainly don't need to insult them or "require" something different from them.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Curious Cat on November 11, 2013, 10:29:06 AM
I am newly diagnosed w/ celiac. I cry because I can't eat cake anymore. Literally. Tears.

I get unreasonably and fiercely angry when I go out to eat and realize that the ONLY things I can safely have are a salad and a baked potato. I'm normally a quite nice person, and I have to struggle harder than I've ever struggled before to not be a Female Dog at restaurants. (sorry--tried to find a less-offensive word, but none of them have the same connotations)

To *always* have the awareness that everything edible around me is -poisonous- to me, that's the hardest thing. I haven't had a big trouble w/ willpower, but I struggle with grief at every meal.

But there's no moral superiority to this--I'd actually have much more sympathy with a vegan who is upset by other people's eating of meat than I do with Tom. He's stuck in the "anger" phase and is alienating everyone who could help him.

Tom is handling his grief badly--maybe by identifying it for what it is, you can help him a little. And that might be a way to help Tina come to terms with it and find a way to be in a more settled frame of mind while she *still lives the proper boundaries.* 

And by identifying it as such, you  might be able to help other people in the family/friends circle frame THEIR reactions in a way that's lower in the drama quotient.

How odd.  I live in the middle of nowhere and just about every restaurant here has gluten free options - gluten free bread, pasta, etc.  I'm surprised you have such a hard time in NYC, I would think it would be fairly easy to find multiple places that can accommodate you.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: SamiHami on November 11, 2013, 10:42:52 AM
I am newly diagnosed w/ celiac. I cry because I can't eat cake anymore. Literally. Tears.

I get unreasonably and fiercely angry when I go out to eat and realize that the ONLY things I can safely have are a salad and a baked potato. I'm normally a quite nice person, and I have to struggle harder than I've ever struggled before to not be a Female Dog at restaurants. (sorry--tried to find a less-offensive word, but none of them have the same connotations)

To *always* have the awareness that everything edible around me is -poisonous- to me, that's the hardest thing. I haven't had a big trouble w/ willpower, but I struggle with grief at every meal.

But there's no moral superiority to this--I'd actually have much more sympathy with a vegan who is upset by other people's eating of meat than I do with Tom. He's stuck in the "anger" phase and is alienating everyone who could help him.

Tom is handling his grief badly--maybe by identifying it for what it is, you can help him a little. And that might be a way to help Tina come to terms with it and find a way to be in a more settled frame of mind while she *still lives the proper boundaries.* 

And by identifying it as such, you  might be able to help other people in the family/friends circle frame THEIR reactions in a way that's lower in the drama quotient.

How odd.  I live in the middle of nowhere and just about every restaurant here has gluten free options - gluten free bread, pasta, etc.  I'm surprised you have such a hard time in NYC, I would think it would be fairly easy to find multiple places that can accommodate you.

I've been GF for a few years now and I can completely understand Toots' feelings. I felt the same way in the beginning...deprived, sad and thinking of the things I can't have anymore. But I can say this; it does get easier with time. I've found, as I'm sure Toots will, which restaurants are okay for me, which grocery stores carry which GF products and so on. An added benefit (for me, anyway) is that it's forced me to be more creative in the kitchen. I've learned how to cook tons of GF stuff that is really, really good. In fact, my birthday is this coming Wednesday and one of the gifts DH gave me is a Gluten Free bread machine cookbook. It has 125 different recipes and with a bread machine, it's really easy.

And Toots, if it makes you feel any better at all-there is one GF pizza out there that actually tastes really, really good. I get Udi's GF pepperoni pizza and have one every weekend. They are delicious and carried in some mainstream supermarkets, not just "healthy" stores. In my area BiLo has it, as well as a lot of other good GF stuff.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Thipu1 on November 11, 2013, 10:44:45 AM
In NYC you can find places to eat that can accommodate just about any dietary restriction.  Just a few blocks away from our house is a crepe place.  Everything there is gluten-free.   

Tom is being Drama King.  His objection to THE CAKE is about as rational as an abstainer complaining because he can't have champagne at a Wedding reception. 

Back away and let Tina and Tom fight it out. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 10:45:19 AM
My point is not that I have such a hard time finding food.

Though I sometimes can have that difficulty--we went to our favorite burger place, which used to be a diner, and I realized, they grill everything on the same counter-top-size griddle, and they fry everything in the same oil, so it's all contaminated. I could have a salad and a baked potato.


But my point is that *every* *single* *time* I eat--whether it is at home or at a restaurant or at someone else's house--I have to spend time and energy trying to decide whether I think the food will poison me. It's serious stuff--you can die much earlier as a result of celiac.

Even when I am buying gluten-free pizza, I am dwelling in that place--a place where food is poison.

It's emotionally very draining. I can't ever escape from that danger. And I am reminded at every meal of all the great things I can't eat anymore.

And actually I have that angry reaction every time, at every restaurant. Starting from the time we start to say, "Which restaurant?"

So the grief is real. And I get reminded of it at every meal.

I can totally understand Tom's frustration, and even his anger.

He needs the people around him to model the proper attitude.

They should all be sympathetic ("yes, it stinks!" and not dismissive: "suck it up" or "you can find a restaurant that can accommodate you"--when Tom asks for advice, *then* you can tell him all that "encouraging" stuff).

Because it *does* stink. Big time. That grief is real. Grief for an uncomplicated life, for foods you can't eat anymore--even grief for your basic sense of safety.

Food is poison. Live with that--kherbert knows whereof I speak, probably--that loss of any sense of safety. That's hard. It's hard for Tom.

So sympathy will probably help him, actually--help him identify what he's dealing with inside. And if he receives some sympathy, he might find it easier to go back to being a reasonable human being.

But recognizing that this is *not* a rational, sensible argument, but instead is an emotional, irrational one, might help Tina and other relatives stop taking his unreasonable points so seriously.

"My sympathies, Tom--that must be hard. But of course other people are going to still have gluten-containing stuff available for them. I'm sure it'll be tough, but I'm also sure that you'll be able to enjoy the party anyway."

Edited to add: You know what, strike that. That's patronizing. Just say, "I'm sorry, Tom--it must stink." Flat-out, unadulterated sympathy is what Tom needs.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Curious Cat on November 11, 2013, 10:47:31 AM
Toots your post made me so sad.  Any way you could avoid restaurants until you've got things a little more under control? It must be miserable to be so frustrated all the time.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Outdoor Girl on November 11, 2013, 10:57:05 AM
Tom has celiac's and has always had wheat gluten issues, but in the past has also had no problems with the occasional "indulgence".  Now, however, he is also a newly fledged vegan and is deep in the "righteous" phase of that conversion...   And he is really alienating a lot of people with it, including Tina.  (And why he is fixated totally on The Cake and is ignoring the other dishes there that will also contain animal products I have no idea...)

It isn't the GF that Tom is ranting about; it is his new conversion to veganism.  If he were newly diagnosed celiac, I'd have some sympathy for him.  But being righteous about his veganism?  Not so much.

If Tina decides, 'Fine, I won't make the dingdangity cake', Tom may next insist that all dishes she's serving be vegan.

This is a 'Suck it up, buttercup' situation.  Tom is not going to convert everyone to veganism and is going to have to learn to live with the people around him eating meat and animal products.  The only time he can set the menu is if he is the one throwing the party.  And I would be perfectly happy to attend and eat what interests me and avoid the rest.  (I don't eat meat substitutes or soy based things.)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: DavidH on November 11, 2013, 11:01:48 AM
If it were Tom's birthday I'd have sympathy for him and I'd even go so far as to say that serving a birthday cake the guest of honor can't eat is rude.  However, this is not the case here.  I have sympathy for the gluten free issue as well, but when you add vegan by choice to it, it is way far over the top.  This isn't a case of leaving the croutons out of the salad or dressing on the side and letting guests add them individually, a gluten free, vegan cake is not going to be nearly the same as a traditional one. 

This sounds like an event he should decline rather than attend and feel slighted. 

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 11:03:07 AM
I do think she should un-invite him. "For his own good," since he wouldn't be comfortable at the party. And if anyone gives her trouble about it she should say, "Well, he hasn't been able to come to terms with his veganism and co-existing with the rest of us, so he wouldn't be very good company."

And a few other people (like you, OP?) should back her up on it. "Tom, you wouldn't be able to enjoy yourself anyway, and the rest of us would have the party ruined by hearing you complain all night. It's just better all the way around. Maybe next year, when you're in a better frame of mind."
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: fountainsoflettuce on November 11, 2013, 12:46:53 PM
Toots,
 After reading your last few posts, I think that you're overinflating the original scenario and don't completely agree with your opinion.  With that said, however, I am more concerned that  you literally cry over cake.  Perhaps you should talk to someone about your food issues.   

As for Tom, I'm on Tina's side.   And this comes from someone with food allergies.  I can't eat it, oh well.  I'll find something else to eat or will bring my own food. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Hmmmmm on November 11, 2013, 01:29:33 PM
Tom needs to be in the SS thread.

I actually had to check which topic I was reading because this sounds so SS. Are Tom and Tina siblings or married and this is the family favorite recipe that Tom craves but can no longer have? Only way I can figure out how Tom would even think his has one iota of say in what is served.

So if one vegetarian attends no meat would be served according to Tom's logic.

If I were you I'd tell Tom he is not being a gracious guest. A gracious guest appreciate any amount of hospitality offered and does not complain to the host or to other guests. 

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TheBardess on November 11, 2013, 01:54:24 PM
My point is not that I have such a hard time finding food.

Though I sometimes can have that difficulty--we went to our favorite burger place, which used to be a diner, and I realized, they grill everything on the same counter-top-size griddle, and they fry everything in the same oil, so it's all contaminated. I could have a salad and a baked potato.


But my point is that *every* *single* *time* I eat--whether it is at home or at a restaurant or at someone else's house--I have to spend time and energy trying to decide whether I think the food will poison me. It's serious stuff--you can die much earlier as a result of celiac.

Even when I am buying gluten-free pizza, I am dwelling in that place--a place where food is poison.

It's emotionally very draining. I can't ever escape from that danger. And I am reminded at every meal of all the great things I can't eat anymore.

And actually I have that angry reaction every time, at every restaurant. Starting from the time we start to say, "Which restaurant?"

So the grief is real. And I get reminded of it at every meal.

I can totally understand Tom's frustration, and even his anger.

He needs the people around him to model the proper attitude.

They should all be sympathetic ("yes, it stinks!" and not dismissive: "suck it up" or "you can find a restaurant that can accommodate you," which isn't any more acceptable in the face of grief than telling a woman "you can have another child" after a miscarriage--when Tom asks for advice, *then* you can tell him all that "encouraging" stuff).

Because it *does* stink. Big time. That grief is real. Grief for an uncomplicated life, for foods you can't eat anymore--even grief for your basic sense of safety.

Food is poison. Live with that--kherbert knows whereof I speak, probably--that loss of any sense of safety. That's hard. It's hard for Tom.

So sympathy will probably help him, actually--help him identify what he's dealing with inside. And if he receives some sympathy, he might find it easier to go back to being a reasonable human being.

But recognizing that this is *not* a rational, sensible argument, but instead is an emotional, irrational one, might help Tina and other relatives stop taking his unreasonable points so seriously.

"My sympathies, Tom--that must be hard. But of course other people are going to still have gluten-containing stuff available for them. I'm sure it'll be tough, but I'm also sure that you'll be able to enjoy the party anyway."

Edited to add: You know what, strike that. That's patronizing. Just say, "I'm sorry, Tom--it must stink." Flat-out, unadulterated sympathy is what Tom needs.

I've been debating whether or not to post this, but ultimately decided I needed to say something. Toots, to put it bluntly, this comparison is grossly offensive. I understand that having to transition to a gluten-free lifestyle is difficult and that dealing with chronic health concerns is never fun or easy. I understand that there must be sadness, anger, and frustration involved at times. That being said, the loss of the ability to eat pasta is not anywhere close to the loss of a pregnancy, nor is the "grief" at missing out on cake even remotely comparable to the grief and sorrow felt after losing a child. Similarly, saying to someone "Hey, it's not all bad. There are lots of places that cater to gluten-free folks these days" anywhere close to suggesting to a grieving mother that her beloved and wanted child can be easily replaced with another one. The comparison of these two scenarios is so completely offensive, insensitive, and inappropriate I almost can't put it into words.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 02:13:36 PM
You are right--my apologies. I'm going to edit it out.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 02:17:34 PM
Hey all... I don't wanna see this get really far off track...

Tom is NOT newly gluten-free.  He has been gluten free for most of his life and seems to deal with it just fine.  He IS newly vegan, and that seems to have really brought out some latent SS tendencies.

Tom and Tina are cousins, but because of how they were raised (grew up next door to each other) think of each other as more like brother/sister which also might be playing into this situation. 

Normally they are both great people, so this huge issue over The Cake (and I have had the cake before and it is indeed worthy of the capitalization) is out of left field and completely out of character for both of them. 

I don't want to see relationships totally ruined over baked goods, but I am just not sure what to say or even if it is my place to say anything....

I will try to support Tina, and see if I can figure out a way of delicately pointing out to both of them (but especially Tom) that they are completely overreacting and blowing things way out of proportion...
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 02:32:17 PM

I don't want to see relationships totally ruined over baked goods, but I am just not sure what to say or even if it is my place to say anything....

I will try to support Tina, and see if I can figure out a way of delicately pointing out to both of them (but especially Tom) that they are completely overreacting and blowing things way out of proportion...

Maybe the thing you can do is not so much try to persuade or convince everyone, but to firmly act as though this is no big deal, either way. Tina's right, Tom's having a brain fart / must have undergone a personality transplant / lost his perspective but will hopefully recover.

And then refuse to let anyone talk about it. "Oh, that silly thing, if course there will be The Cake, and Tom will come to his senses eventually, let's not talk about it. You know what they say: 'Least said, soonest mended.' "


(sorry for the derail)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: jedikaiti on November 11, 2013, 02:32:46 PM
He's WAY out of line. I'm still failing to see where Tina was out of line.

This absolutely IS a "Suck it up" situation. If Tom can't manage that politely, then he doesn't need to be invited.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Luci on November 11, 2013, 02:35:38 PM
You are right--my apologies. I'm going to edit it out.

I for one understood your comment. I might cry if I couldn't have eggs or beef, so I understand. (I could live without desserts forever, as long as I get some plain fruit and maybe a chocolate fix every now and then.)

You are one of the most sensible, logical people I know, and I completely sympathize with your frustration at learning a new lifestyle. Best wishes with that hurdle!
____________

I love the new saying, "Suck it up, Buttercup!" I may have to incorporate that into my talks to myself when I'm feeling whiney. The Big Bang Theorie's Penny used 'Buttercup', so I associate it with her sweetness.
____________

OP, I agree with the poster who said to keep out of it, especially now that we know they are almost-raised-together cousins. That is too close a relationship to get between aside from just listening if one needs to vent. Good luck with that sticky situation.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 02:49:06 PM

I love the new saying, "Suck it up, Buttercup!" I may have to incorporate that into my talks to myself when I'm feeling whiney. The Big Bang Theorie's Penny used 'Buttercup', so I associate it with her sweetness.


Brief derail... I think that this might be a growing up in the 70s thing (or maybe a having hippies for parents thing) but I grew up saying rhyming stuff like "See ya later, alligator", "What's the word, hummingbird?", "Suck it up, buttercup", "later, tater!", and stuff like that...
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cwm on November 11, 2013, 02:53:34 PM

I love the new saying, "Suck it up, Buttercup!" I may have to incorporate that into my talks to myself when I'm feeling whiney. The Big Bang Theorie's Penny used 'Buttercup', so I associate it with her sweetness.


Brief derail... I think that this might be a growing up in the 70s thing (or maybe a having hippies for parents thing) but I grew up saying rhyming stuff like "See ya later, alligator", "What's the word, hummingbird?", "Suck it up, buttercup", "later, tater!", and stuff like that...

Nah, I was raised in the 80s and still did that. And my sister, who was all of 4 in 1990 did it too throughout her childhood.

[/derail]
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 02:53:55 PM
Another thought for you:

Quote
I don't want to see relationships totally ruined over baked goods, but I am just not sure what to say or even if it is my place to say anything....

Maybe you can serve as the warning signal, alerting them to what the stakes are.


"Do you want to see your relationship with Tom / Tina totally ruined over baked goods? I'm starting to worry that this could be the end result."

I had a friend say something like that to me and another friend of ours, and it was an important thing for us both to hear. We both believed we were right; there was an extra emotional/psychological element to it for one of us that made it harder to back down, and we might have lost a lifelong friendship.

So there's that tactic--just be a mirror that points out how serious it's starting to sound.

Maybe go with questions or vaguely observational statements:
"Do you realize how angry you sound?"
"That was a particularly vicious-sounding tone of voice!" in a note of surprise.
"Have you thought about how Tina might react to that demand?"
even: "does that truly seem fair or appropriate to you?"

Just ask the questions that make them think more deeply.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on November 11, 2013, 03:00:04 PM
I'm sure, you know, that we could all make much better judged comments if we knew more about - and had a recipe for - this Cake. Well, I could.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 11, 2013, 03:05:33 PM
I'm sure, you know, that we could all make much better judged comments if we knew more about - and had a recipe for - this Cake. Well, I could.

I actually just looked for a "like" button.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: lowspark on November 11, 2013, 03:09:31 PM
For some reason, this is all starting to sound like it could be a Seinfeld episode. Maybe it's because of the capitalization of "The Cake".
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 11, 2013, 03:31:08 PM
Hey all... I don't wanna see this get really far off track...

Tom is NOT newly gluten-free.  He has been gluten free for most of his life and seems to deal with it just fine. He IS newly vegan, and that seems to have really brought out some latent SS tendencies.

Tom and Tina are cousins, but because of how they were raised (grew up next door to each other) think of each other as more like brother/sister which also might be playing into this situation. 

Normally they are both great people, so this huge issue over The Cake (and I have had the cake before and it is indeed worthy of the capitalization) is out of left field and completely out of character for both of them. 

I don't want to see relationships totally ruined over baked goods, but I am just not sure what to say or even if it is my place to say anything....

I will try to support Tina, and see if I can figure out a way of delicately pointing out to both of them (but especially Tom) that they are completely overreacting and blowing things way out of proportion...

My ToxicSis is newly vegan, coupled with "only organic everything is acceptable."  She was already SS to begin with but her latest life-change, coupled with she seems to have joined up with a group of women who all consider themselves -- and call each other -- "goddesses" doesn't help at all (ToxicSis is the Original Female Dog).  I don't deal with her and, maybe, just maybe, she'll get off her righteous path and figure out, someday, how to behave in a societally-acceptable manner (she's the one who posted negative things about our wedding menu on our FB-wedding page).

Tom...means well, I suppose, but he's only annoying those around him who actually love him (like Tina).  I don't know how to recommend dealing with a person like that other than ignore (which is what I did with ToxicSis -- ultimately, she dropped out of my wedding (a relief because I wanted to kick her out anyway) and flaked (also a relief because I didn't want her to attend).  My mom and OtherSis stayed out of it, as did then-DF.  Essentially, I ignored her SS-ness because a) I was way too busy needing to focus on my wedding and b) ignoring is the ONLY way to stop her (if I don't respond, she runs out of steam...eventually).

Tom sounds like this and sounds like he no longer should be engaged on the topic as he will not agree with anyone or concede being wrong (according to the OP).  Tina could still provide him with a GF cupcake if she wishes, but that's it (I've yet to taste GF cake that is as good as regular cake; I've had some pretty good GF chocolate chip cookies though).  Otherwise, Tina should not engage the crazy right now while not cutting off Tom either.

Since Tom and Tina are so close, Tina should be able to be upfront and state, "Look, Tom, I love you and consider you my brother and admire the course you've taken to improve your lifestyle...but I'm not going to let you dictate my party dynamics to me.  I want to see you at my party, but you're either going to accept the way I have it or don't come at all (but I'll be sorry not to see one of my favorite people there to share this milestone with me).  This topic is no longer open for discussion.  GF bean dip?"
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Luci on November 11, 2013, 03:40:55 PM

I love the new saying, "Suck it up, Buttercup!" I may have to incorporate that into my talks to myself when I'm feeling whiney. The Big Bang Theorie's Penny used 'Buttercup', so I associate it with her sweetness.


Brief derail... I think that this might be a growing up in the 70s thing (or maybe a having hippies for parents thing) but I grew up saying rhyming stuff like "See ya later, alligator", "What's the word, hummingbird?", "Suck it up, buttercup", "later, tater!", and stuff like that...

Nah, I was raised in the 80s and still did that. And my sister, who was all of 4 in 1990 did it too throughout her childhood.

[/derail]

Continue derail: 1955 for me: http://www.lyrics.com/see-you-later-alligator-lyrics-bill-haley.html

It's from a 1930's phrase.

(End derail?)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 03:44:50 PM
Another thought for you:

Quote
I don't want to see relationships totally ruined over baked goods, but I am just not sure what to say or even if it is my place to say anything....

Maybe you can serve as the warning signal, alerting them to what the stakes are.


"Do you want to see your relationship with Tom / Tina totally ruined over baked goods? I'm starting to worry that this could be the end result."

I had a friend say something like that to me and another friend of ours, and it was an important thing for us both to hear. We both believed we were right; there was an extra emotional/psychological element to it for one of us that made it harder to back down, and we might have lost a lifelong friendship.

So there's that tactic--just be a mirror that points out how serious it's starting to sound.

That's a good idea.  I know that I will see Tina on Friday, and if she brings up Tom/the party/The Cake I will try this.  (I don't want to bring it up unless she brings it up first...)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 11, 2013, 03:48:19 PM
I'm sure, you know, that we could all make much better judged comments if we knew more about - and had a recipe for - this Cake. Well, I could.

I don't actually have the recipe... but I can ask Tina for it.  I know that it has about 16 eggs in it...

It is a lot like a sponge cake, only much richer and denser then any other sponge cake I have ever had, and Tina usually tops it with a powdered sugar/lemon juice glaze.  It is totally delicious.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Luci on November 11, 2013, 04:06:20 PM
I'm sure, you know, that we could all make much better judged comments if we knew more about - and had a recipe for - this Cake. Well, I could.

I don't actually have the recipe... but I can ask Tina for it.  I know that it has about 16 eggs in it...

It is a lot like a sponge cake, only much richer and denser then any other sponge cake I have ever had, and Tina usually tops it with a powdered sugar/lemon juice glaze.  It is totally delicious.

It's sort of like the mentioning kittens rule, isn't it: If kittens are mentioned, pictures must be posted.
                                                                          If special food is mentioned, recipes must be posted.  NEW RULE!

I promise not to mess with the recipe (insert Smilie with hand raised swearing).  Thank you - and Tina.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 11, 2013, 04:06:42 PM
I'm sure, you know, that we could all make much better judged comments if we knew more about - and had a recipe for - this Cake. Well, I could.

I don't actually have the recipe... but I can ask Tina for it.  I know that it has about 16 eggs in it...

It is a lot like a sponge cake, only much richer and denser then any other sponge cake I have ever had, and Tina usually tops it with a powdered sugar/lemon juice glaze.  It is totally delicious.

I don't suppose there's any way for someone to ask TOM to make a GF, vegan version of this cake...? (he might better understand what he's insisting upon, exactly, if he had to figure it out then execute it)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Luci on November 11, 2013, 04:23:25 PM
I don't suppose there's any way for someone to ask TOM to make a GF, vegan version of this cake...? (he might better understand what he's insisting upon, exactly, if he had to figure it out then execute it)

Did she say 16 eggs? Good luck, Tom!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 11, 2013, 04:41:32 PM
I don't suppose there's any way for someone to ask TOM to make a GF, vegan version of this cake...? (he might better understand what he's insisting upon, exactly, if he had to figure it out then execute it)

Did she say 16 eggs? Good luck, Tom!

Exactly!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Dazi on November 11, 2013, 04:50:49 PM
I don't suppose there's any way for someone to ask TOM to make a GF, vegan version of this cake...? (he might better understand what he's insisting upon, exactly, if he had to figure it out then execute it)

Did she say 16 eggs? Good luck, Tom!

Exactly!

Well there's vegan egg replacer, but I think the max I would sub in a recipe is maybe 2-3 eggs.  I'd LOVE to here about him trying to make the cake GF, Vegan, dairy free and it turning out a spectacular mess, because it will if the person doing it is not well versed in baking substitutions. 

Personally, I think Tom needs to get over himself.  IF he were the GOH, I'd think his complaint was valid.  However, Tina has given him a perfectly reasonable alternative cupcake and it's not her problem that he doesn't like that option. I think he just REALLY wants some of The Cake and is afraid he will cave if it is there in front of him.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 11, 2013, 04:52:18 PM
I don't suppose there's any way for someone to ask TOM to make a GF, vegan version of this cake...? (he might better understand what he's insisting upon, exactly, if he had to figure it out then execute it)

Did she say 16 eggs? Good luck, Tom!

Exggsactly!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: sweetonsno on November 11, 2013, 05:13:35 PM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: PastryGoddess on November 11, 2013, 05:24:58 PM
But Tina will have things he can eat.  Tom is the one focusing on the cake.  He's not going to starve if he attends.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 11, 2013, 06:01:25 PM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Tina making a big deal out of offering to get him a dessert he could eat. As far as the comparison between her party and a wine-tasting party, it's not as if there will be only cake at her party because she's providing a lot of other food.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FoxPaws on November 11, 2013, 06:16:09 PM
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Tina making a big deal out of offering to get him a dessert he could eat. As far as the comparison between her party and a wine-tasting party, it's not as if there will be only cake at her party because she's providing a lot of other food.
Post #11 on the first page...the OP says that Tina made the cupcake offer somewhat grudgingly.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 11, 2013, 06:59:41 PM
Maybe I missed it, but I don't see Tina making a big deal out of offering to get him a dessert he could eat. As far as the comparison between her party and a wine-tasting party, it's not as if there will be only cake at her party because she's providing a lot of other food.
Post #11 on the first page...the OP says that Tina made the cupcake offer somewhat grudgingly.

Thanks! I don't know how I missed that bit.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Hmmmmm on November 11, 2013, 08:03:14 PM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

But the OP said there would be other dessert offerings that Tom could eat, just not cake. After badgering it sounds like Tina said, "Fine if you demand cake, I'll get you a freekin cupcake."

I think the real parallel would be inviting guests to a dinner with wine pairings and you planned to offer the teetotaler iced tea. But teetotaler demands that you serve alcohol free wine to everyone because he can't drink the planned wine.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on November 11, 2013, 08:45:42 PM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

But the OP said there would be other dessert offerings that Tom could eat, just not cake. After badgering it sounds like Tina said, "Fine if you demand cake, I'll get you a freekin cupcake."

I think the real parallel would be inviting guests to a dinner with wine pairings and you planned to offer the teetotaler iced tea. But teetotaler demands that you serve alcohol free wine to everyone because he can't drink the planned wine.

Yeah, this is basically how I took it. If someone had a certain food that I couldn't eat at a party, but most/almost all of the food I could, I would shut my mouth and deal with it. It's Tina's birthday, and I don't think she should be forced to make her cake vegan and gluten-free. I personally wouldn't want to put in that kind of time either, because that's a lot of potential tinkering that could end in disaster if one is not well-versed in altering recipes to that degree.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: VorFemme on November 11, 2013, 08:52:01 PM
Now I have an earworm singing "o/` It's my party and I'll make & serve the Cake if I want to o/`".  Over and over again.  And I want cake...

Seriously - if the recipe was changed to make it a vegan & gluten-free version of The Cake, it would not be the much loved and awaited family recipe.  If making The Cake and serving it at the birthday bash that Tina pays for and organizes for herself and her friends & family is what she wants to do to celebrate her birthday and nobody is being asked to pay for a ticket to the shindig - then she can make & serve whatever she wants to.

If she is willing to add a vegan GF alternative for her cousin & almost-brother - then she wants him there, if he can bring himself to recognize that it is HER party and she gets to cook & serve what she wants to.

Now - about this recipe...16 eggs, you say?  I just happen to have that many in the fridge right now (long story involving VorGuy having a brilliant idea - no, this is not quite the equivalent of anyone saying "hold my beer" and then doing something dumb) but it is going to mean that I need to do some serious cooking for a few days.  Fortunately, if the recipe shows up, I have a large group of teenagers that VorGuy teaches who can be counted on to throw themselves on the uneaten dessert before it causes any problems.

I can't think of any vegan substitute for 16 eggs...

If the recipe doesn't show up - cookie dough can be made and frozen - then passed along to various family members at Christmas - baked or not, I've had family members demolishing my cookies for decades. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: blarg314 on November 11, 2013, 09:10:06 PM

So Tom can't have the cake because of a voluntary change in his eating habits (as these issues have cropped up only since becoming vegan) so he is demanding that no-one at the party have the cake. Even though there is plenty of stuff that he can eat, and the host has offered to provide a special dessert just for him, in addition to everything else?

I vote for brat, and if I were Tina, I'd be pretty annoyed with Tom right now myself.

Personally, I'd go for handing Tom the recipe, and asking him to provide a gluten free, vegan version for the party, to share.  It will be a disaster, because egg substitute for a recipe with 16 eggs is not a good idea.

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Arila on November 11, 2013, 09:28:37 PM
I think Tina is totally right, and Tom totally wrong in the basics. Both of them sound like they haven't been too gracious or stopped being so during an argument.

I think going forward, I would play neutralizer. "Least said, soonest mended" Tina should have The Cake at her party, and avoid further upset and confrontation with Tom to just get past this. Keep repeating "Least said, soonest mended".
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Minmom3 on November 11, 2013, 09:30:29 PM
No, she said he's been GF for a long time, it's the vegan aspect that is new.  I can't imagine a cake recipe being both GF AND vegan....  Pretty sure I'd rather eat something else than that little experiment!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: jedikaiti on November 11, 2013, 10:29:39 PM
No, she said he's been GF for a long time, it's the vegan aspect that is new.  I can't imagine a cake recipe being both GF AND vegan....  Pretty sure I'd rather eat something else than that little experiment!

No, but IIRC, until recently he'd allowed himself the occasional indulgence... like The Cake.

Sounds to me like it's the Vegan not the GF that's making him not eat the cake, and since he can't have any, NOBODY can.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: sweetonsno on November 11, 2013, 11:06:17 PM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

But the OP said there would be other dessert offerings that Tom could eat, just not cake. After badgering it sounds like Tina said, "Fine if you demand cake, I'll get you a freekin cupcake."

I think the real parallel would be inviting guests to a dinner with wine pairings and you planned to offer the teetotaler iced tea. But teetotaler demands that you serve alcohol free wine to everyone because he can't drink the planned wine.

Missed that. For some reason, I read it as there being main-meal offerings but no other dessert options. If there are other options for dessert, then yes, Tom is being ridiculous.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TeamBhakta on November 11, 2013, 11:27:48 PM
For some reason, this is all starting to sound like it could be a Seinfeld episode. Maybe it's because of the capitalization of "The Cake".

I'm reminded of this thread:
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=128425.0

I can't imagine a cake recipe being both GF AND vegan....  Pretty sure I'd rather eat something else than that little experiment!

ot/ I have plenty of dessert recipes on my Pinterest board that are gluten free + vegan.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cicero on November 12, 2013, 03:35:15 AM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."
While The Cake may  be a big deal - it's *one* of the desserts. According to the OP there will be a huge buffet spread of tapas, and desset will include The Cake, a fruit and cheese platter, and several kinds of ice cream and sorbet.

so sorry, i think he is incredibly out of line.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 12, 2013, 07:41:09 AM
I don't feel for Tom at all.  Tina is 100% hosting her party, and Tom is outright stating her hosting is not good enough and is upset that she won't cave in, exactly, to his demands.  I don't see at all how Tina is at fault at all here or why she should be expected to alter her hosting to someone who is, essentially, spitting on her offering.  Tina would be well within her rights to say, "Don't come to my party; obviously, nothing short of only doing what you want would be good enough."  My ToxicSis pulled this maneuver (even stating in an e-mail "You don't have to count me for your catering because I won't be eating any of your food"); gotta say -- never missed her at my wedding for a single moment (what a freakin' cow!).  And, I'm definitely not saying they are all like this, but ToxicSis also recently became a vegan -- organic only, as well -- so she thinks only her way is the right way and will cross all sorts of etiquette boundaries to proclaim to all and sundry that SHE speaks the "truth."  That's fine, ToxicSis and Toms of the world, you lead your righteous, unhappy lives out there away from the rest of us then!  Glory in you standing your entitled ground with your like-minded SS others!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: lowspark on November 12, 2013, 07:48:37 AM
I dunno… I kind of feel for Tom on this one. It sounds like The Cake is a pretty big deal and that it is a central part of the celebration. Yes, you technically are supposed to go to a party for the company and not the comestibles, but I can see why he might feel a bit unwelcome if this has become a "come over for The Cake" event and he can't participate in that part. Tom was in the wrong for asking her to totally change the menu, but Tina shouldn't have been so grudging about offering an alternative. If she really wasn't willing to, she should have just said, "Sorry, Tom, but I'm going to serve The Cake. I'm afraid I don't know much of anything about vegan baking, but it's fine if you want to bring something."

I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

To repeat: I do not think that Tina needs to not have the cake, nor do I think that Tom should have asked her to completely cut it from the menu. I simply think it was ungracious of her to make a big deal out of providing an alternative. Much better to leave it at, "I'm sorry, that won't be possible."

What you're saying (where I bolded) makes sense, except that the difference here is Tom's only recent decision to become vegan.

Tina has an annual "The Cake" party to which she invites Tom. He comes, year after year, and happily partakes of and enjoys The Cake. Now, Tom voluntarily adopts new dietary restrictions and he expects Tina to change her long-established event to suit his new needs.

In your tee-totaller example, If I have a martini party every year, and one of my friends who always comes and drinks martinis, decides he wants to cut alcohol out of his diet, does he really have a leg to stand on if he demands I now serve only virgin martinis at my party? Sorry, but no.

It's Tina's birthday. It's Tina's party. She gets to serve anything she wants. Tom can come or not come but he has no right to dictate the menu. The most he can do is make sure Tina knows of his dietary restrictions and ask if there will be foods he can eat.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Winterlight on November 12, 2013, 08:30:31 AM
At this point if I were Tina I'd be pretty annoyed too. Tom is currently in the self-righteous convert stage of his new eating habits, and she's tired of the argument.

Tom needs to get over himself.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Outdoor Girl on November 12, 2013, 09:06:28 AM
...ToxicSis also recently became a vegan -- organic only, as well...

Ummm... Does she not know that most organic operations use manure as fertilizer?  That's not exactly vegan...
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: VorFemme on November 12, 2013, 09:18:33 AM
...ToxicSis also recently became a vegan -- organic only, as well...

Ummm... Does she not know that most organic operations use manure as fertilizer?  That's not exactly vegan...

(((holding both hands over face to stifle giggles because the cat will look at me like I'm crazy if I fall out of the chair & roll on the floor laughing)))
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Outdoor Girl on November 12, 2013, 09:21:13 AM
...ToxicSis also recently became a vegan -- organic only, as well...

Ummm... Does she not know that most organic operations use manure as fertilizer?  That's not exactly vegan...

(((holding both hands over face to stifle giggles because the cat will look at me like I'm crazy if I fall out of the chair & roll on the floor laughing)))

Glad to be of service.   ;)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Hmmmmm on November 12, 2013, 09:24:35 AM
Now I have an earworm singing "o/` It's my party and I'll make & serve the Cake if I want to o/`".  Over and over again.  And I want cake...

Seriously - if the recipe was changed to make it a vegan & gluten-free version of The Cake, it would not be the much loved and awaited family recipe.  If making The Cake and serving it at the birthday bash that Tina pays for and organizes for herself and her friends & family is what she wants to do to celebrate her birthday and nobody is being asked to pay for a ticket to the shindig - then she can make & serve whatever she wants to.

If she is willing to add a vegan GF alternative for her cousin & almost-brother - then she wants him there, if he can bring himself to recognize that it is HER party and she gets to cook & serve what she wants to.

Now - about this recipe...16 eggs, you say?  I just happen to have that many in the fridge right now (long story involving VorGuy having a brilliant idea - no, this is not quite the equivalent of anyone saying "hold my beer" and then doing something dumb) but it is going to mean that I need to do some serious cooking for a few days.  Fortunately, if the recipe shows up, I have a large group of teenagers that VorGuy teaches who can be counted on to throw themselves on the uneaten dessert before it causes any problems.

I can't think of any vegan substitute for 16 eggs...

If the recipe doesn't show up - cookie dough can be made and frozen - then passed along to various family members at Christmas - baked or not, I've had family members demolishing my cookies for decades.

My MIL makes a Angel Food cake, both a vanila and a chocolate version, that has 16 egg whites. (I always wish I liked angel food cake but hate the texture). And I've made pound cake with 12 eggs.

But can't comprehend a cake with 16 eggs unless it is a 3 tiered wedding cake style.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Twik on November 12, 2013, 09:26:28 AM
At this point if I were Tina I'd be pretty annoyed too. Tom is currently in the self-righteous convert stage of his new eating habits, and she's tired of the argument.

Tom needs to get over himself.

Yes. It's not about what Tom wants to eat himself, it's that he wants to feel virtuous that he stopped others from enjoying the Evil Nonvegan Cake.

Hopefully, this will wear off in a while, but it looks like he'll make it tedious while he's in that phase.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FoxPaws on November 12, 2013, 10:25:07 AM
My MIL makes a Angel Food cake, both a vanila and a chocolate version, that has 16 egg whites. (I always wish I liked angel food cake but hate the texture). And I've made pound cake with 12 eggs.

But can't comprehend a cake with 16 eggs unless it is a 3 tiered wedding cake style.
Reminds of the scene in Steel Magnolias where Shelby and M'lynn are arguing while she cracks egg after egg after egg into a bowl. I've always wanted to know what she's supposed to be making. 

Back to topic -  >:D Evil FoxPaws would be tempted to tell Tom that maybe he should curtail his social life until he is secure enough in his new diet/beliefs to live and let live.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: jaxsue on November 12, 2013, 11:15:15 AM
Tom is being a very SS. About 6 wks ago I was diagnosed with T2 diabetes. It's controllable, no insulin shots needed, but I have a very restricted diet. I cut out about 95% of the sugar, as well as other limitations. I have to deal. I have been to parties where there was cake. I LOVE cake! But my health matters more. No host is obligated to alter the food to accomodate my issues.

Note: there is a bright side to this. I have lost about 10 lbs. so far.  :)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: magicdomino on November 12, 2013, 11:36:18 AM
I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

In your tee-totaller example, If I have a martini party every year, and one of my friends who always comes and drinks martinis, decides he wants to cut alcohol out of his diet, does he really have a leg to stand on if he demands I now serve only virgin martinis at my party? Sorry, but no.


This is especially true if your martini party has always had coffee, sodas, and chilled water.  I suspect virgin martinis are about as practical as a vegan 16 egg cake.   
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: VorFemme on November 12, 2013, 03:10:40 PM
Why do I want to introduce Tom to Claire from The Brunch Guest thread?

Is it to see what happens when the immovable object and the irresistible force collide? 

Wanders off looking innocently up in the air and whistling - because I know at least a few of you were wishing that you could do the same thing, right?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: jedikaiti on November 12, 2013, 03:23:23 PM
I wouldn't want to be one of the people who has to deal with that pair, but I would soooo love to hear the stories.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cabbagegirl28 on November 12, 2013, 06:07:25 PM
Why do I want to introduce Tom to Claire from The Brunch Guest thread?

Is it to see what happens when the immovable object and the irresistible force collide? 

Wanders off looking innocently up in the air and whistling - because I know at least a few of you were wishing that you could do the same thing, right?

I feel that would be more like the Eminem line, "Maybe that's what happens when a tornado meets a volcano".
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: PastryGoddess on November 12, 2013, 06:30:22 PM
Why do I want to introduce Tom to Claire from The Brunch Guest thread?

Is it to see what happens when the immovable object and the irresistible force collide? 

Wanders off looking innocently up in the air and whistling - because I know at least a few of you were wishing that you could do the same thing, right?

I feel that would be more like the Eminem line, "Maybe that's what happens when a tornado meets a volcano".

you forgot sharks
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: VorFemme on November 12, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
Why do I want to introduce Tom to Claire from The Brunch Guest thread?

Is it to see what happens when the immovable object and the irresistible force collide? 

Wanders off looking innocently up in the air and whistling - because I know at least a few of you were wishing that you could do the same thing, right?

I feel that would be more like the Eminem line, "Maybe that's what happens when a tornado meets a volcano".

you forgot sharks

We Shadows (comic) has a character who was born when a whirlwind god got tangled with a crystal mine - http://weshadows.com/2013/08/29/ - I think a tornado and a crystal mine have much more interesting interactions.

But I've been told that I'm a bit odd.  In a nice way.  But still a bit odd.

A tornado with spinning crystals would be rather abrasive - much like both Claire and Tom have been in their documented appearances!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: sammycat on November 12, 2013, 07:50:50 PM
Tom is a 100% in the wrong, self centred, bore.

I can see no reason whatsoever for anyone to have a beef with Tina. She's done absolutely nothing wrong.

Tom has chosen to restrict his diet, ergo he has made a choice not to be able to indulge in The Cake.

I can't tell you how many times I've attended an event and not been able to partake in the dessert, either through my own food choices, or because it literally made me sick to my stomach to even think about eating it if it falls into one particular food group. And you know what? I just get on with things. I don't complain, I don't demand other people go without because I am; I act like a mature adult and realise the world doesn't revolve around me. Tom needs to grow up.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: I'mnotinsane on November 12, 2013, 09:53:11 PM
Is the great-grandmother who passed down this recipe one of their shared great-grandmothers? If so I can understand Tom's frustration a little more.  I do not agree with his view or condone his actions though.  If this is his motivation he can try to create a vegan version of The Cake.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 12, 2013, 10:35:05 PM
...ToxicSis also recently became a vegan -- organic only, as well...

Ummm... Does she not know that most organic operations use manure as fertilizer?  That's not exactly vegan...

(((holding both hands over face to stifle giggles because the cat will look at me like I'm crazy if I fall out of the chair & roll on the floor laughing)))

Glad to be of service.   ;)

If I thought it would get through the brick wall that is her head, I would venture mentioning that (thank you for the info!).  This is someone who had a fit when she made a nasty aghast post on my FB wall about how marshmallows are made from gelatin which is made from animals and so they are not vegan (I had made an innocuous post about enjoying mini-marshmallows in my cocoa).  I replied that I'd known for over 20 years that gelatin is not vegan; didn't she?  She, apparently, did not care for that (I guess I was supposed to concede her born-again vegan knowledge superiority).
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: YummyMummy66 on November 13, 2013, 08:15:17 AM
I don't know why you want to shake them both.  I see Tina doing no wrong in this situation.  She makes a cake and has a party that she has had for years now.   She offers plenty to eat for all of her guests from a varied menu. 

Tom is being a jerk.   Tina offered to get him a cupcake from a bakery with his dietary restrictions.  She has other items on the menu that Tom can eat.  He wants none of that.  He wants Tina to change her grandmother's cake recipe, (a tradition that Tina has made for a few years now), to fit his dietary needs.  What if the cake then does not meet another guest's needs?
This is not about Tom's diet.  This is about what Tom wants.

Personally, if I was Tina, I would be telling Tom, look this is it.  At this time, I am not even going to offer to get you that darn cupcake.  If my annual party is so much of a problem for you, stay home. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: 123sandy on November 13, 2013, 08:19:19 AM
I think Tom is being selfish. There are other things that he can eat, Tina has offered to buy cupcakes that suit his dietary needs/wants but still he thinks she should change her birthday cake? The one she treats herself to once a year? Her Grandmothers recipe?

Sorry Tom, the answer has to be a resounding no!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Winterlight on November 13, 2013, 08:21:38 AM
I guess I see it sort of like inviting a teetotaler to a whiskey or wine-tasting party and then grumbling about making sure that you have soda or juice or some other non-alcoholic beverage. Yes, it's their choice to not consume alcohol. No, you don't have to cut alcohol from the menu. However, I guess it comes across as slightly inhospitable, like, "Hey, wanna watch us do something awesome? No, I wasn't planning on having a related activity that you could partake in, why do you ask?"

In your tee-totaller example, If I have a martini party every year, and one of my friends who always comes and drinks martinis, decides he wants to cut alcohol out of his diet, does he really have a leg to stand on if he demands I now serve only virgin martinis at my party? Sorry, but no.


This is especially true if your martini party has always had coffee, sodas, and chilled water.  I suspect virgin martinis are about as practical as a vegan 16 egg cake.

Since the classic martini is vodka/gin and vermouth with an olive, you could have an olive. Or a virgin dirty martini- olive juice and an olive.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Roe on November 13, 2013, 10:11:48 AM
Tom is a real jerk, big baby, spoiled brat!  And I truly hope this is not her SO.

Totally on Team Tina! 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: siamesecat2965 on November 13, 2013, 11:09:08 AM
And I have to ask, what's the cake? Curious minds want to know!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Nikko-chan on November 13, 2013, 11:49:38 AM
And I have to ask, what's the cake? Curious minds want to know!

I was wondering that myself... OP you think you can get the recipe?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Hmmmmm on November 13, 2013, 12:27:38 PM
And I have to ask, what's the cake? Curious minds want to know!

I was wondering that myself... OP you think you can get the recipe?

I dont' even care if your friend doesn't want to share the recipe. I just want to know what type of cake it is.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Arila on November 13, 2013, 02:56:19 PM
And I have to ask, what's the cake? Curious minds want to know!

I was wondering that myself... OP you think you can get the recipe?

I dont' even care if your friend doesn't want to share the recipe. I just want to know what type of cake it is.


It's a few pages back:


It is a lot like a sponge cake, only much richer and denser then any other sponge cake I have ever had, and Tina usually tops it with a powdered sugar/lemon juice glaze.  It is totally delicious.

Since I consider many foods mere vehicles for lemon juice, I am REALLY interested in this cake recipe.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: magicdomino on November 13, 2013, 03:38:24 PM
Do any of the vegan substitutes for eggs whip up into fluff?  Most high-egg cakes call for the egg whites to be separated and whipped until stiff.  That provides the lift for the cake, since mere yeast and baking powder are helpless against that many eggs in a normal-sized cake.  The description of the cake as a "sponge cake, only richer and denser" applies since sponge cakes contain whipped whites. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: camlan on November 13, 2013, 05:09:26 PM
My take on this is that the birthday person gets to choose the cake. If you can't have your favorite cake on your birthday, when can you have it?

Tina offered Tom a special cupcake. He rejected her compromise. Maybe, just maybe, Tina should have offered the cupcake sooner, or with less grumbling, but I doubt that would have changed Tom's response. And I really can't blame Tina, as she had already planned to have other desserts available. It's not as if The Cake is going to be the only dessert.

Is Tom perhaps afraid that the deliciousness of The Cake will tempt him to break his new-found dietary rules?

And if Tina were to bow to Tom's demands, how will she placate the other guests, who are probably drooling already at the thought of eating The Cake?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MyFamily on November 14, 2013, 01:56:23 PM
Do any of the vegan substitutes for eggs whip up into fluff?  Most high-egg cakes call for the egg whites to be separated and whipped until stiff.  That provides the lift for the cake, since mere yeast and baking powder are helpless against that many eggs in a normal-sized cake.  The description of the cake as a "sponge cake, only richer and denser" applies since sponge cakes contain whipped whites.

No.  Mom of an egg-allergy kid here - when you have an egg-allergy there are just simply some recipes that you absolutely cannot modify...
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: BarensMom on November 14, 2013, 01:58:17 PM
I tried to google it, but only came up with a 12-egg pound cake.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Twik on November 14, 2013, 04:05:56 PM
Since I consider many foods mere vehicles for lemon juice, I am REALLY interested in this cake recipe.

I think you and I are going to be good friends....  8)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: sweetonsno on November 14, 2013, 04:49:10 PM
I tried to google it, but only came up with a 12-egg pound cake.

I found a 16-egg lemon sponge cake. It looks intense.

http://lostcookbook.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/lemon-cake/
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Winterlight on November 14, 2013, 07:24:59 PM
I found a vegan sponge cake recipe, but it's totally different than regular sponge cake and really didn't sound so good.

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 14, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
I tried to google it, but only came up with a 12-egg pound cake.

I found a 16-egg lemon sponge cake. It looks intense.

http://lostcookbook.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/lemon-cake/

As the only raising agents in the recipe, the eggs needed to be whisked with sugar for an hour to incorporate sufficient air into the cake mix.

I bet homemakers didn't need to belong to a gym back then.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: blarg314 on November 14, 2013, 09:10:50 PM
I found a vegan sponge cake recipe, but it's totally different than regular sponge cake and really didn't sound so good.

I went and googled that out of curiosity.

Traditional egg heavy sponge cake - 16 egg yolks, sugar, water, flour, baking powder, salt, vanilla, lemon extract.

Vegan sponge cake - sweetened soy milk, cider vinegar, flour, cornstarch, baking powder, baking soda, sugar, vegetable oil, vanilla extract.

The only ingredients they have in common are flour, sugar, baking powder and vanilla extract, which are in a significant fraction of baked desserts, while the method for preparation vary so much that the only common factor is that it is baked.



Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: cheyne on November 15, 2013, 09:17:09 AM
Let's not forget that Tom is also gluten free.  So the wheat flour is right out...
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: DavidH on November 15, 2013, 02:54:10 PM
In my experience, the key to good dishes incorporating dietary restrictions is to find dishes that don't require the ingredient to be avoided in the first place.  The more key the ingredient is to the dish, the less successful the substitution.  For example, a vegan or vegetarian roast beef is likely to be a major challenge, but converting a traditional vegetable soup recipe to either vegetarian by substituting vegetable for chicken stock or vegan is likely to produce a successful dish.

A vegan, gluten free cake just seems like an impossibility.  It would seem a better plan to make the cake, but also make a dessert more compatible with his dietary restrictions, may be something centered around fruit rather than wheat and eggs.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: magicdomino on November 15, 2013, 03:15:58 PM

A vegan, gluten free cake just seems like an impossibility.  It would seem a better plan to make the cake, but also make a dessert more compatible with his dietary restrictions, may be something centered around fruit rather than wheat and eggs.

Oh, it can and has been done.  Some of the torte-like flourless cakes come to mind. But it won't be an angel food or sponge cake.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: #borecore on November 15, 2013, 03:17:22 PM
There are 166k results on Google for "'vegan and gluten free' cake recipe" and 435k for "'gluten free vegan' cake recipe" so I'm pretty sure it can be and has been done. :)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Harriet Jones on November 15, 2013, 03:37:25 PM
There are 166k results on Google for "'vegan and gluten free' cake recipe" and 435k for "'gluten free vegan' cake recipe" so I'm pretty sure it can be and has been done. :)

Probably none of them resemble The Cake, though.

Let's not forget that Tom is also gluten free.  So the wheat flour is right out...

He was willing to eat the cake when he was *not* vegan, though.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: DavidH on November 15, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
I am amazed, it just seems like everything you'd want to use would be on the avoid list.  Do they come out like a typical cake or is it something different?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: jedikaiti on November 15, 2013, 04:02:50 PM
My husband made a great cake with almond flour rather than wheat flour once, but I doubt it was vegan. It was, however, delicious.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: secretrebel on November 18, 2013, 07:43:10 AM
I have the MOST AMAZING recipe for MiddleEastern chocolate cake which is gluten free.

However, although I'd offer the recipe to Tom so he could contribute to the party, I wouldn't expect Tina to change her special cake to accommodate him.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 18, 2013, 08:26:40 AM
Update!

So, I finally managed to catch up with Tina (we met up for lunch on Saturday)...

Apparently Tom did not choose to go vegan voluntarily... his doctor told him to adopt a strict vegan diet to try and get some of his medical issues under control and also took him to task about his occasional baked goods "indulgence".  Tom also apparently has self-control problems... as in if he sees something that he really really wants to eat, he is gonna eat it, diet and admonishments from his doctor notwithstanding.  So rather then learning self-control and taking charge of his diet, Tom's solution is apparently to try to make sure that the most tempting forbidden fruits simply aren't there when he is, by whatever means necessary.  (Like by browbeating Tina over The Cake.)  Which is making him really obnoxious to be around.

Tina is also getting a lot of pressure from her family to indulge Tom "just this once" because "he is having such a hard time with this transition".  (Tom is the baby of the extended family, can you tell?)

Tina is sick of the whole situation and more then a little pissed off.  "I am not his keeper... his diet restrictions are not my problem."  She is also afraid that one indulgence will turn into a lifetime of expected indulgences and doesn't want that.

I reassured her that it is indeed her party and she can do what she wants to (just like that 80s song says) and that no one will think the less of her, whatever she decides to do.

As of yesterday Tina has decided to rescind the offer of the special (gluten free and vegan) cupcake because she thinks that there is no point in going out of her way like that for Tom if he isn't going to appreciate it.  And she is also going to rescind Tom's invitation and tell him to not come since it seems (from his behavior) that he will have a miserable time and try to make everyone else miserable as well.

She also gave me the recipe for The Cake, and here it is:

Cake ingredients:
16 eggs
1 tsp cream of tarter
1/4 tsp salt
1.5 cups granulated sugar
1 tsp vanilla flavoring
1 cup cake flour

Glaze ingredients:
1 cup confectioners sugar
The juice of one lemon (fresh)

Instructions:
Preheat the oven to 350.

Separate the yolks and whites of all of the eggs. 

Sift 1 cup of sugar twice. 

Sift the cake flour and 1/2 cup of the sugar 3 times.
 
Beat the egg yolks until thick and creamy.

Beat the egg whites until frothy.  Beat in the cream of tarter and salt.  Continue to beat the egg whites until they are glossy and fine grained and will stand up in a sharp point. Gradually beat in the twice-sifted sugar, along with the vanilla.  Gently fold in the egg yolks. Gently fold in the thrice-sifted flour and sugar mixture.

Pour into a two-piece un-greased ring pan. 

Bake for an hour. 

Invert the pan to cool.

For the glaze combine the confectioners sugar and fresh lemon juice.  Add additional confectioners sugar or juice until the glaze is of a desired consistency.  After the cake has cooled and been removed from the pan, paint the sides and top of the cake with the glaze.

(The cake is delicious, but seems pretty finicky to actually make, so I don't think that I will be trying out this recipe myself anytime soon.)

So!  There you all go.  I will let you know what happens at the party, which is probably the next time that I will see Tina given the rapidly approaching Thanksgiving holidays.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: LeveeWoman on November 18, 2013, 09:32:50 AM
This is one of the rare times when I think rescinding an invitation is correct.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: siamesecat2965 on November 18, 2013, 09:38:50 AM
I agree, rescinding in this case is fine. Whether or not Tom's newfound dietary restrictions are of his own doing, or, as is the case, his doctor's orders, he is still an adult, and its his responsiblity to eat, or not eat, things he should or shouldn't.

Good for Tina!  I say continue on with the party plans, don't cave to family pressure, and make the cake. So he's having trouble with the transition? Too bad. its not like "the cake" will be the only thing there to eat.

Speaking of cake, this whole thread reminds me of this:  Which makes me snicker every time i see it.  http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-of-cake.html
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Shea on November 18, 2013, 10:13:12 AM
My husband made a great cake with almond flour rather than wheat flour once, but I doubt it was vegan. It was, however, delicious.

Torta de Santiago (Spanish almond cake) is flour and dairy free, I make it at Passover for that very reason. It's got eggs though, in the absence of a leavening agent the whipped egg whites make it rise. You can do a flourless chocolate cake the same way (also featured at Passover sometimes. Not traditional, but delicious!).
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: TootsNYC on November 18, 2013, 11:01:58 AM
... Tom's solution is apparently to try to make sure that the most tempting forbidden fruits simply aren't there when he is, by whatever means necessary. 
...
And she is also going to rescind Tom's invitation and tell him to not come since it seems...that he will have a miserable time



This is very logical.

And it's what she should say (note that I cut out the bit about making everyone else miserable) to all and sundry if they bring it up.

"Tom's having such a difficult time, and I don't want to put him in that position--it's unfair to him. So he doesn't need to feel pressured to come."



Also: re the vegan cupcake--it's still got fat and sugar in it, so it's not acceptable to his doctor either!
   no matter *what* she did with the dessert, it would have fat and sugar!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: veryfluffy on November 18, 2013, 01:04:11 PM


(The cake is delicious, but seems pretty finicky to actually make, so I don't think that I will be trying out this recipe myself anytime soon.)


It's really not very complicated -- very like a standard American sponge cake recipe (eg from Joy of Baking) but with more eggs and fewer other ingredients,

For anyone gluten-free, BTW, the Joy of Baking American sponge cake recipe works absolutely fine with gluten-free flour.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: sammycat on November 18, 2013, 04:47:04 PM
Good for Tina!  :)  I was so afraid that the next part of your post was going to say that Tina caved into Tim and the family's unacceptable behaviour, and was very pleasantly surprised she did the complete opposite.  :D
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Firecat on November 18, 2013, 07:49:44 PM
I'm also on Team Tina. I understand that it's difficult for Tom, but that doesn't mean he gets to make his problem into Tina's problem.

I don't think this is just about The Cake for either of them. Based on the update, I think that this is more about the long-term pattern of The Reasonable One (Tina) being expected to keep giving in to keep the peace, because Tom will kick up a huge fuss if he doesn't get his way.

I don't blame Tina for being tired of it and deciding that this is going to be her Hill to Die On. It's Tina's birthday, after all, and I wouldn't be too pleased about being asked to give up something very special to me...on my birthday...at a party that I host and pay for...because Tom cannot or will not control himself well enough to eat something he knows is, at minimum, very bad for him.

So if I were Tina, I would rescind the invitation to Tom, because it's not fair to Tina or her other guests to risk Tom ruining the party. And if Tina then decides that she wants to set more boundaries with Tom and/or the rest of the family, I say "Good for her!" and "About time!"
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: siamesecat2965 on November 19, 2013, 12:01:46 PM
I'm also on Team Tina. I understand that it's difficult for Tom, but that doesn't mean he gets to make his problem into Tina's problem.

I don't think this is just about The Cake for either of them. Based on the update, I think that this is more about the long-term pattern of The Reasonable One (Tina) being expected to keep giving in to keep the peace, because Tom will kick up a huge fuss if he doesn't get his way.

 
 . And if Tina then decides that she wants to set more boundaries with Tom and/or the rest of the family, I say "Good for her!" and "About time!"

Yes, i knew there was something rattling around in the back of my brain, and this was it. It really isn't about the cake, but the fact that I think Tina is sick and tired of catering to Tom or others. Her birthday, her house, her party, she gets the cake.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Mergatroyd on November 20, 2013, 08:15:33 PM
Right, so just so we're clear- Tom is a celiac and a doctor ordered vegan, who can't control what food goes in his mouth, so therefore everyone he knows must also become gluten free vegans? That just screams SS.

I am celiac, I cannot cheat, I get too sick. I used to be vegan, and to require a 16 egg recipe cake be changed because I won't eat it (and it isn't my birthday!) is beyond SS.

Furthermore, I would never EVER require anyone to make something GF "just" for me. I go to events knowing that I will not be able to partake, and will leave the room while said dessert is being served so people don't notice that I did not have a piece. If someone does notice and ask, I simply say that I'm sorry, I can't have it, but it does look delicious. (And yes, I too have gone into hysterics from pure hunger and need for cake. Never for long, and only in private, but it has happened. I think it is called "Hangry". There are some really good GF cakes, and even vegan ones, but you can't just modify any recipe and expect it to work.)

Bottom line, if he cannot control what does/does not go into his mouth, knowing what his doctor said, then he needs to stay home. It's not anyone else's problem.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Nikko-chan on November 20, 2013, 11:36:53 PM
does The Cake need to be made in the special pan?
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Winterlight on November 21, 2013, 10:46:47 AM
I'm also on Team Tina. I understand that it's difficult for Tom, but that doesn't mean he gets to make his problem into Tina's problem.

I don't think this is just about The Cake for either of them. Based on the update, I think that this is more about the long-term pattern of The Reasonable One (Tina) being expected to keep giving in to keep the peace, because Tom will kick up a huge fuss if he doesn't get his way.

I don't blame Tina for being tired of it and deciding that this is going to be her Hill to Die On. It's Tina's birthday, after all, and I wouldn't be too pleased about being asked to give up something very special to me...on my birthday...at a party that I host and pay for...because Tom cannot or will not control himself well enough to eat something he knows is, at minimum, very bad for him.

So if I were Tina, I would rescind the invitation to Tom, because it's not fair to Tina or her other guests to risk Tom ruining the party. And if Tina then decides that she wants to set more boundaries with Tom and/or the rest of the family, I say "Good for her!" and "About time!"

Agreed. This isn't "Tom can't be in the same room as fried fish or he goes into anaphylactic shock." This is "Tom refuses to manage his own eating habits, expects that the rest of us will do it for him and demands I cater to him at my birthday party."
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 21, 2013, 12:02:31 PM
does The Cake need to be made in the special pan?

A two-piece ring pan.  Which I had to look up... here is a pretty good description - http://www.cooksinfo.com/tube-pans
You can get them all over the place, apparently they are pretty common.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: HGolightly on November 21, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
I agree with most of you. I have a medically limited diet (i am limited to what I can physically eat or suffer) so dinner parties generally suck for me. I would rather hang out with my loved ones and bring something I can eat than sit at home and pout because the menu is not for me. I have a friend who has changed her lifestyle and diet by choice for health and goes on and on and on when she can't eat something. I admit it is a pet peeve when people go on or lambaste people over their dietary choices because when you can't change your diet....you live with it. What point is there to moan about what you cannot change.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Outdoor Girl on November 21, 2013, 12:54:23 PM
does The Cake need to be made in the special pan?

A two-piece ring pan.  Which I had to look up... here is a pretty good description - http://www.cooksinfo.com/tube-pans
You can get them all over the place, apparently they are pretty common.

I had a springform pan (or cheesecake pan) in my mind and wasn't thinking about an angel foodcake pan.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Figgie on November 21, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
I made "the cake" yesterday.  I used my over-size two piece tube pan (that I normally use for angel food cakes) and my very large stand mixer.

The egg whites whipped up to almost over the top of the mixing bowl and the entire batter just barely fit into my tube pan.  I would make sure that what you mix it in, is an extra large bowl and that the tube pan is as big as you can find. 

I know that it would never have fit into a bundt pan and it is the kind of cake that needs to be sliced around to remove from the pan, as the pan isn't greased because the whites (like in an angel food cake) need to be able to "cling" to the sides of the pan to stay tall.

I was interested because it is a slightly different type of chiffon cake than I have made before.  I found out that the sifting is to super-fine the sugar and that it isn't a particularly difficult cake to make as long as you have a large enough tube pan and mixing bowl.

Hope that helps!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Arila on November 21, 2013, 03:32:23 PM
I'm kind of looking forward to trying this -- They made this sort of cake on the baking reality show (I can't remember the name, it was just "on" when I was in the room and I stopped to watch) a few months ago.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: nayberry on November 21, 2013, 04:14:05 PM
Thanks figgie,  have been off to amazon to get a tube pan :) 

this Cake must be made :D   


oh and Tom is a spoilt toddler who can miss out on the fun everyone else will have, whether they eat the Cake or not!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Nikko-chan on November 21, 2013, 09:24:55 PM
I wonder if my aunt has a pan like that..... I wanna make the cake....
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on November 22, 2013, 06:54:14 AM
I made "the cake" yesterday. 

How did it turn out?

I was interested because it is a slightly different type of chiffon cake than I have made before.

Is that what kind of cake it is?  I had no idea it was a particular "type"!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Figgie on November 22, 2013, 11:34:28 AM

How did it turn out?

It turned out fine.  :)  It is a pretty sticky cake, so I had to be careful cutting it out of the pan, as there is a tendency for it to not want to separate from the sides/bottom of the tube pan.  It is like a more moist, richer version of an angel food cake.

I like chiffon cakes, mostly because you don't end up having to find a use for the egg yolks that are leftover.  The cake is also moist enough to hold up for a couple of days after baking.  I had the last piece a few minutes ago.  :)

I think I'm going to just purchase extra fine sugar instead of having to sift the regular sugar multiple times.  The only sifting I would do then would be to sift the extra fine sugar together with the cake flour to save a bit of time. 

I plan on trying it again in a couple of weeks for a fundraiser.  I'm going to add lemon extract instead of vanilla extract since like a previous poster, I like a little cake with my lemon.  :)

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: *inviteseller on November 24, 2013, 11:25:13 AM
Tom is a big baby and should stay home because his whining will ruin the party.  We were just rewarded at work with a steak dinner for acing a corporate inspection.  Head of the dining area came to me after the announcement and said "Don't worry Veghead(his term of endearment for me), I will get you some garden burgers".  I told him he did not have to do that, I could eat the sides and I didn't need any special treatment (I am seriously the only vegetarian out of 70 some employees!) but he made some (and others ate some too!) and made sure there were sides I could eat (he made loaded potatos so that was out but the risotto?  yumyumyum!)  I hatehatehate people who make their dietary choices (Not allergies, choices) every stinking persons issues because then everyone is looking at me suspiciously like I am going to knock the fork out of their hand and start screaming at them. 
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: FauxFoodist on November 25, 2013, 03:22:29 PM
I made "the cake" yesterday.  I used my over-size two piece tube pan (that I normally use for angel food cakes) and my very large stand mixer.

The egg whites whipped up to almost over the top of the mixing bowl and the entire batter just barely fit into my tube pan.  I would make sure that what you mix it in, is an extra large bowl and that the tube pan is as big as you can find. 

I know that it would never have fit into a bundt pan and it is the kind of cake that needs to be sliced around to remove from the pan, as the pan isn't greased because the whites (like in an angel food cake) need to be able to "cling" to the sides of the pan to stay tall.

I was interested because it is a slightly different type of chiffon cake than I have made before.  I found out that the sifting is to super-fine the sugar and that it isn't a particularly difficult cake to make as long as you have a large enough tube pan and mixing bowl.

Hope that helps!

What size mixing bowl does your stand mixer have? (mine is 6-qt so I'm wondering to see if everything would fit in there)

Also, what is the volume of your angel food pan? (if you don't know and want to figure out, you put in cups of water until it is full)
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Figgie on November 25, 2013, 03:52:17 PM

What size mixing bowl does your stand mixer have? (mine is 6-qt so I'm wondering to see if everything would fit in there)

Also, what is the volume of your angel food pan? (if you don't know and want to figure out, you put in cups of water until it is full)

My mixing bowl is 7-quarts.  My angel food cake pan is 4-quarts.  While the eggs whip up almost over the top, adding the other ingredients will deflate it enough to fit into the 4-quart angel food cake pan.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: lakey on November 28, 2013, 11:34:33 PM
Since when does a guest get to demand that the hostess prepares a special dish just for you? Then to top it off he's griping about it, as if he's entitled to make demands on the hostess.
Talk about being a special snowflake.

I'm a Catholic. When I was young we weren't allowed to eat meat on Friday. Strange I know, but it was considered a way to show God you were willing to make a sacrifice in His name.
Since a lot of parties and events occur on Friday this came up often. Sometimes, people who knew you were Catholic would serve an entree you could eat, but often they never even thought of it, because why would they?
We NEVER suggested to anyone that they make something special. You simply ate the potatoes and salad, or ate a hamburger bun with tomato and mayonnaise.

Honestly, there are a lot worse things in life than not being able to eat some of the food at a party.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: bloo on November 30, 2013, 02:50:56 PM
Tom is a big baby and should stay home because his whining will ruin the party.  We were just rewarded at work with a steak dinner for acing a corporate inspection.  Head of the dining area came to me after the announcement and said "Don't worry Veghead(his term of endearment for me), I will get you some garden burgers".  I told him he did not have to do that, I could eat the sides and I didn't need any special treatment (I am seriously the only vegetarian out of 70 some employees!) but he made some (and others ate some too!) and made sure there were sides I could eat (he made loaded potatos so that was out but the risotto?  yumyumyum!)  I hatehatehate people who make their dietary choices (Not allergies, choices) every stinking persons issues because then everyone is looking at me suspiciously like I am going to knock the fork out of their hand and start screaming at them.

Since when does a guest get to demand that the hostess prepares a special dish just for you? Then to top it off he's griping about it, as if he's entitled to make demands on the hostess.
Talk about being a special snowflake.

I'm a Catholic. When I was young we weren't allowed to eat meat on Friday. Strange I know, but it was considered a way to show God you were willing to make a sacrifice in His name.
Since a lot of parties and events occur on Friday this came up often. Sometimes, people who knew you were Catholic would serve an entree you could eat, but often they never even thought of it, because why would they?
We NEVER suggested to anyone that they make something special. You simply ate the potatoes and salad, or ate a hamburger bun with tomato and mayonnaise.

Honestly, there are a lot worse things in life than not being able to eat some of the food at a party.


The two of you are people I'd love to have over! :)

I've mentioned before that when I have dietary restrictions, I believe it is my responsibility to handle them, not make them other people's responsibility.

We just had 200+ over to our place recently and we served a pricey main dish fried in peanut oil. One of our friends is allergic to the type of food (not the oil) so he just ate other stuff. Which was fine, there was a lot of other stuff to eat. But another one of our friends, Jan, has quite a list of foods she can't eat without being on the toilet all night. She was bemoaning that she couldn't partake of the main dish because of the breading we were using so my DH fried up a few pieces for her w/o the breading. I thought that was nice. She did too and happily ate the food. Much later she asked DH what type of oil the food was fried in and he told her it was peanut oil and then she was upset because she was allergic to it. Not like she goes into anaphylaxis but she will be on the toilet all night long. I'm sympathetic, but if you know you're allergic or sensitive to a particular oil for frying, then it's your responsibility to ask what type of oil the food that's being offered to you is fried in.

When I was rearranging dishes on tables, she was complaining out loud that there was nothing she could eat. I said, "I'm really sorry," and she responded with, "Oh don't be sorry! It's not your fault!" I thought to myself, 'I know it's not my fault but what else can I say?'. DH sometimes goes to sporting events with Jan and her husband and DH tells me she spends a great deal of time complaining about the lack of food options for her. Also at smaller get-togethers she doesn't really socialize as much as she walks around and fiddles with things.

A couple of days later, I was on the phone with Jan's mom to discuss something else, and she gently admonished me that we should have had a sign up that the food was being fried in peanut oil the way some restaurants do. Now, this isn't a bad or wrong idea and I may even do it.

But we didn't have any issues with food allergies with anyone else because however many of the 200+ people at our house that had them, managed them - themselves.

So I explained to Jan's mom that I may put up some kind of sign next time we do this but took the opportunity to tell her that Jan would probably be a lot happier at get-togethers if she just focused on the socializing. I've had dietary restrictions that I've been dealing with for 4 years and unlike with Jan, few people even notice because I behave in such a way as to not call attention to it. You'd only know if you were inviting me for hospitality and asked me if there was anything I can't eat. I mentioned my own food restrictions and said that if there is something I can't eat I just eat what I can or bring food or eat pre-emptively and just focus on having a good time with other people. I told her when I'm at someone else large party, I'd be playing volleyball, cornhole, dancing, listening to music and just chatting with all kinds of people. Jan's mom agreed with me that Jan would be happier if she quit crumbing about the food and just hang out with friends. She gets the brunt of Jan's complaining, I think. And then we changed the subject.

I think Jan is 'stuck' in her grieving process (it really is lousy to have to give up so many foods) but it's been over two years now so she will (IMO) be happier if she moves on from it.

And in case it's not obvious, I'm Team Tina all the way and think Tom is a special snowflake.   
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on December 08, 2013, 04:36:30 PM
Hey all,  Tina's party was yesterday and I figured that I would give you all some kind of closure on it, even though it is kind of a non-update...

The party was great.  Tina really outdid herself with her tapas/small plates buffet, and the dessert table (with The Cake, vanilla ice cream, pistachio ice cream, coconut sorbet, and a huge fruit tray) was delectable.

Tom was not there.  No one mentioned him (and a lot of the people there are his friends as well as Tina's friends) and no one seemed to miss him.  I have not heard from Tom since about a week before Thanksgiving, and Tina has not heard from him for about as long (she did not go to her family Thanksgiving, but went with her partner to his family's Thanksgiving/Hanukkah celebration instead).  Tom seems to be laying low.  I can only home that he got the message about how unwelcome he was making himself with all of his unreasonable food demands...

Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Julsie on December 08, 2013, 05:12:12 PM
Thank you for the update!  I'm delighted to hear that the party was a success and that The Cake was present, even if Tom was not.

I love a happy ending.   ;D
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Library Dragon on December 08, 2013, 05:13:53 PM
MindsEye, thanks for the update.  It seems everyone enjoyed the drama free celebration with CAKE.

For those who want superfine sugar, you can create it by grinding regular sugar in your food processor or blender.  Put it in and hit pulse a few times.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: bloo on December 08, 2013, 05:35:22 PM
I'd like to add my thanks for the update! Sounds perfect. The Special Snowflake stayed home. It's the second best option to him coming and not making a fuss about the food he can't eat.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Firecat on December 09, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
Hey all,  Tina's party was yesterday and I figured that I would give you all some kind of closure on it, even though it is kind of a non-update...

The party was great.  Tina really outdid herself with her tapas/small plates buffet, and the dessert table (with The Cake, vanilla ice cream, pistachio ice cream, coconut sorbet, and a huge fruit tray) was delectable.

Tom was not there.  No one mentioned him (and a lot of the people there are his friends as well as Tina's friends) and no one seemed to miss him.  I have not heard from Tom since about a week before Thanksgiving, and Tina has not heard from him for about as long (she did not go to her family Thanksgiving, but went with her partner to his family's Thanksgiving/Hanukkah celebration instead).  Tom seems to be laying low.  I can only home that he got the message about how unwelcome he was making himself with all of his unreasonable food demands...

Good for Tina and her shiny spine!
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Wordgeek on December 09, 2013, 01:34:04 PM
Thanks for the update.

I hope Tom figures out a better way to handle his needs.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: MindsEye on December 09, 2013, 04:57:00 PM
I do feel a little bit sorry for Tom... if he were nicer about it, I am sure that people would be more then happy to help him out by avoiding tempting non-gluten-free and non-vegan food around him.  But instead he decided to be a pill about everything, so people are pushing back and being unwilling to accommodate him.  And I don't blame them.... if someone is not nice to me, I am sure not going to go out of my way to be nice to them.  What would be the point?

But my feeling sorry for Tom has limits... he is the root cause of all of his problems....
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Winterlight on December 10, 2013, 11:00:51 AM
My sympathy wanes when the person with the restrictive diet demands that the rest of the world to cater to them. Tina provided things he could eat, and offered to get him a cupcake that was especially for him. He ordered that she not make the Cake she's been looking forward to for a year so that he wouldn't be tempted. At that point, I'd have told him to go pound sand.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: alkira6 on December 10, 2013, 11:07:19 AM
I'm glad that he had the (belated) grace to stay home.

I grumble to myself about my food issues but they are my problem. Would I like to eat more yummy stuff? Absolutely.   I am an adult however and I am responsible for my own health and wellbeing.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: Firecat on December 10, 2013, 12:55:31 PM
My sympathy wanes when the person with the restrictive diet demands that the rest of the world to cater to them. Tina provided things he could eat, and offered to get him a cupcake that was especially for him. He ordered that she not make the Cake she's been looking forward to for a year so that he wouldn't be tempted. At that point, I'd have told him to go pound sand.

This. It's one thing (and I think fairly reasonable, at least with closer relationships) to ask if it's possible to have something available or to offer to provide something. As in, if Tom had graciously said something like "I'm really looking forward to the party. You know my doctor recently restricted me to a vegan diet. Would it be ok if I brought a few cupcakes I'm able to eat so I can still have something sweet?" Then I'm sure Tina would have said, "Don't be silly; I'll get some cupcakes for you - were you thinking of the Vegan Delights bakery, or is there a different one you prefer?" or something similar.

Instead, Tom chose to be rude, entitled, and demanding. So I don't think he should be surprised that he got pushback. Classic case of "you get what you give," especially if there has been a pattern of Tina being asked to give in to appease Tom in the past.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: blarg314 on December 10, 2013, 06:12:02 PM
I do feel a little bit sorry for Tom... if he were nicer about it, I am sure that people would be more then happy to help him out by avoiding tempting non-gluten-free and non-vegan food around him. 

Actually, I think that would be beyond reasonable limits for most people - even if they were sorry for him, and he was really sweet about it, I can't see his social circle switching to vegan gluten free fare for holiday parties or dinners out - it's just too major and comprehensive a restriction to expect other people to follow, except maybe a spouse or parent.

What they *would* do is make sure there was a treat that he could eat, or pick restaurants where he had a reasonable food option (I'm not sure that restaurants exist that are both fully vegan *and* completely gluten free, for that matter).




Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: mbbored on December 22, 2013, 04:35:04 PM
I do feel a little bit sorry for Tom... if he were nicer about it, I am sure that people would be more then happy to help him out by avoiding tempting non-gluten-free and non-vegan food around him. 

Actually, I think that would be beyond reasonable limits for most people - even if they were sorry for him, and he was really sweet about it, I can't see his social circle switching to vegan gluten free fare for holiday parties or dinners out - it's just too major and comprehensive a restriction to expect other people to follow, except maybe a spouse or parent.

What they *would* do is make sure there was a treat that he could eat, or pick restaurants where he had a reasonable food option (I'm not sure that restaurants exist that are both fully vegan *and* completely gluten free, for that matter).

Exactly. I have a number of friends with different dietary restrictions and I am always more than happy to to make sure there's plenty for them to eat and drink at my home, because they're nice about it it. Come into my home and tell me that I can only serve dishes that suit your dietary restrictions and you'd probably never be invited again.
Title: Re: Dessert wars
Post by: kherbert05 on December 22, 2013, 06:15:54 PM
I just found this thread.
OP - I have no patients with people who expect the world to stop on a dime and change for them. So I'm glad Tina got to have her cake on her birthday. Tom needs to grow up and take care of his own health and the rest of the family needs to demand he act like an adult instead of indulging and catering to his wims.

Toots I'm sorry for what you are going through. I never went through that because my two big allergies peanuts and shell fish have always been issues. Actually your post made me understand what people who find out later are going through. Peanut butter taste like novicane and crab and shrimp just taste foul so I've never craved them. I do like lobster and mussels - like citrus I have to keep it under a certain level or I itch. The closest I came to grieving was when Nestle's changed crunch bar to have peanut products. It was the first label I ever read by myself.

Boo - I'm going to kind of agree with Jan's Mother. I think anyone using peanut oil should warn people it is the 2nd most common and most deadly food allergy in the US. I can smell it on food, but others I know who are allergic don't smell anything. It is a high priced and somewhat unusual ingrediant. (I do ask)

I especially think people frying/deep frying in peanut oil need to warn people ahead of time- Both my 5 yo cousin and I probably would have gone into anaphylaxis just by breathing the air before we ate the food. I went into anaphylaxis 2x at the Ren Fair near Houston. We couldn't figure out why - I hadn't eaten anything. Hadn't been touching stuff. The first time I was 3 or 4 and the hay and animals were the chief suspects and I wasn't allowed to go into the lifestock show part of the rodeo for years because of that. The 2nd time I was in HS and the docs pretty much decided that something blooming on the property must have been the cause. Then I made a remark here and one of the posters who is active in the community did some checking. She came back to warn me that that peanut oil was frequently added to the deep fryiers (raises the flashpoint) at Ren Fairs and that might be what I reacted to. It also means I can't go to many fish fries held around the area.

That said if the invite was obvious come eat a deep fried Turkey - or come to our Fish Fry, I would ask when I called to RSVP. If you told me then you were using peanut oil I would decline. The problem is people then pressure you to just come and eat other stuff. Simply being around the fryier is dangerous for me and people tend ot use their fingers so there is the touch thing.