Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: AzaleaBloom on December 17, 2013, 01:53:22 PM

Title: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on December 17, 2013, 01:53:22 PM
I need an EH-approved way of saying the subject heading to a person who is making me hate the sport I play for fun.

Background:

I captain a rec-level sports team.  I took over the team when the previous captain had to quit playing.  Another member of the team is more or less my co-captain, and has been since I took over two years ago.  On weeks where I can't be there, "James" takes care of the captain duties.  We have no problem with this arrangement, and it has worked well.

When a player moved and had to quit, we asked "Luke" to join the team.  Since he joined, he has decided that he is in charge, and has undermined me on several occasions.  For example, I can say in an e-mail that I need everyone there and ready to play at 7:30.  He'll respond by saying that everyone needs to be there at 7:15.  If James gives a certain line-up, he'll respond by telling everyone to do something else.  Luke also has a tendency to talk to me like I'm an overly emotional five year old - which is pretty much the surest way to get me to snap.  I nearly bit through my tongue last game.


His most recent stunt is one that could get us in trouble with the league and cause us to have to forfeit games.  James and I are in full agreement that we are only to call on subs - and even then, only subs we have on our roster - when we are missing players.  One of the rules of the league is that all players have to be on the roster, and using non-rostered subs, if caught, can lead to forfeiture of games.  In the past, we have had issues with other teammates wanting to bring in subs so we can have extra players.  However, James and I both strongly feel that top priority should be given to those who actually paid to play, and subs are only in situtations where they are needed.  On this week's game reminder e-mail, there was one person who said she most likely wouldn't be there, leaving us with exactly enough people to play.  Luke responded by saying that he could get someone else there so we could have extra players there that night.  Since he does not have contact with our regular subs, this would be someone non-roster - as well as someone who hasn't paid and would be taking playing time away from those of us who did.

While I am fine with shutting this down - I have made it very clear that we don't need a sub - it's a prime example of how Luke has steamrolled over James and myself.  Since I'm the official captain of record, it is my job to deal with the situation.  Any e-hell approved suggestions on how I can politely tell him "Shut up, play ball, and talk to either myself or James after the game/e-mail us if you have any questions or suggestions"?
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Zizi-K on December 17, 2013, 02:16:35 PM
How about some version of "That will not be possible."?

I assume this is over email? A reply like this could work:

Dear Luke (and all),

The policy of the club is very clear that using any non-roster subs will cause us to forfeit the game. As co-captains of the team, and those responsible for administering and keeping track of these rules, Luke and I have decided not to test the limits, so off-roster subs will not be allowed. Please do not invite any friends to come and play, as they will just be disappointed when they arrive and are not able to play.

Best,
AzaleaBloom

To deal with Luke's butting-in to other decisions, a private word with you, James and Luke would suffice, the message being - back off. If you want to captain a team, start one yourself.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: lmyrs on December 17, 2013, 02:19:02 PM
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Outdoor Girl on December 17, 2013, 02:20:03 PM
How about some version of "That will not be possible."?

I assume this is over email? A reply like this could work:

Dear Luke (and all),

The policy of the club is very clear that using any non-roster subs will cause us to forfeit the game. As co-captains of the team, and those responsible for administering and keeping track of these rules, Luke James and I have decided not to test the limits, so off-roster subs will not be allowed. Please do not invite any friends to come and play, as they will just be disappointed when they arrive and are not able to play.

Best,
AzaleaBloom

To deal with Luke's butting-in to other decisions, a private word with you, James and Luke would suffice, the message being - back off. If you want to captain a team, start one yourself.

One name change there and I agree with this, including a little talk with Luke, using the bolded wording.  Sounds like this guy needs the direct approach.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: SamiHami on December 17, 2013, 02:26:09 PM
I think you and James need to speak with Luke together. Sit him down and point out specific instances, as you have here, where he has overstepped. And then clearly and concisely tell him that as captains, those decisions are for you and James to make, not him. If he tries to argue (and he will) point out that this is not a discussion; this is simply you and James informing him of the way things run on this team and that he is not to do it again.

Then, if he does (and he will, to test the boundaries) I suggest suspsending him for a couple of games until he understands that he is not the captain.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Hmmmmm on December 17, 2013, 02:27:21 PM
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.

All of this. Call him out public ally. "Luke, only James or I set the line up or schedule. If you are unhappy with this, I understand if you choose to leave the team"
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: tinkytinky on December 17, 2013, 02:31:03 PM
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: SamiHami on December 17, 2013, 02:45:40 PM
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, as captain I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.

I like what you've said here, and modified it slightly. I don't think it's necessary to explain to Luke why he can't bring in a sub. He just needs to know that he cannot do it. And the idea of sending an email to the entire team, including Luke, explaining that the only changes will come directly from the captains, is excellent. It may help drive the point home that he is not one of the captains.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: MrTango on December 17, 2013, 02:46:33 PM
I'd send him an email (and copy James):

"Luke,

There seems to be a misconception that needs to be cleared up: I am the Captain of this team.  James is my backup.  If and when I determine that substitues are needed for a game, I will make the arrangements or ask James to do so.

Also, as Captain of this team, it is my responsibility to determine the times players need to arrive for events and our line-ups for those events.  In the event that I am unable to personally attend these events, I delegate those responsibilities to James.

If you are unable to accept these terms, then I encourage you to seek out another team that is better suited to you.  Any further attempts to undermine my or James' decisions made in our roles as Co-Captains of this team will result in your immediate removal from the team.

Regards,
AzaleaBloom"

It's not impolite to be very direct.  Also, I'd suggest considering this note to be his one and only warning.  The next time he steps out of line, he's gone.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: tinkytinky on December 17, 2013, 03:15:57 PM
Wow!  :o

I think you have to shut him down every. single. time. he does this. if its an email changing the time, reply to all: Sorry, no. The official practice time is 7:30. No need to be standing around for 15 minutes.
If its an email about the lineup reply to all: No the original lineup is the one we will use. No need for the confusion.
If its a conversation about subs: No need to get someone else. League rules state that the subs have to be on the roster. I have that list, and they have paid to be a sub. If we need someone else, as captain I will handle it.

every. single. time.

You may even have to email him seperately so that HE can't just reply to all. Make him go thru the effort of putting in everyones email address. You may also be proactive and send a team email to that states that the only official changes being made will come from you and/or James. If they have questions or are getting emails changing everything, they should contact you.

You may need to look at the requirements of putting him on the sub list, and get a different player for the team.

I like what you've said here, and modified it slightly. I don't think it's necessary to explain to Luke why he can't bring in a sub. He just needs to know that he cannot do it. And the idea of sending an email to the entire team, including Luke, explaining that the only changes will come directly from the captains, is excellent. It may help drive the point home that he is not one of the captains.

Thank you, SamiHami! I agree you don't need to explain why. (In fact I actually had a similar response written out!)
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: blarg314 on December 17, 2013, 06:28:28 PM

I think you need a three-pronged approach.

The first is to sit him down (along with James) and tell him directly that he is not to call in subs, and he is not to try to interfere with your coaching arrangements.

The second is to smack him down, politely, but publicly, every single time he does this. He sends an email, you send a group email saying that no, the practice time is 7:30. He tries to change the lineup, you say "No, Luke, the lineup is XXX".

The third is to not explain or defend your decisions at the time. You can give a brief explanation of rules, etc, but don't get sucked into arguments about which player is better, or why 7:30.

If these methods don't work, you may need to see whether you can kick him off the team - he's interfering with the arrangements of the team, and he's doing things as if he were captain that could get the whole team in trouble.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: kckgirl on December 17, 2013, 06:43:57 PM
As a last resort, you may also want to change to an email group (Yahoo, Google, something like that) and make it announcements only. The members would receive the information they need and could email you and James as administrators of the group, but they wouldn't be able to reply to all.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: kherbert05 on December 17, 2013, 06:54:15 PM
I'd send him an email (and copy James):

"Luke,

There seems to be a misconception that needs to be cleared up: I am the Captain of this team.  James is my backup.  If and when I determine that substitues are needed for a game, I will make the arrangements or ask James to do so.

Also, as Captain of this team, it is my responsibility to determine the times players need to arrive for events and our line-ups for those events.  In the event that I am unable to personally attend these events, I delegate those responsibilities to James.

If you are unable to accept these terms, then I encourage you to seek out another team that is better suited to you.  Any further attempts to undermine my or James' decisions made in our roles as Co-Captains of this team will result in your immediate removal from the team.

Regards,
AzaleaBloom"

It's not impolite to be very direct.  Also, I'd suggest considering this note to be his one and only warning.  The next time he steps out of line, he's gone.
First start using BCC so he can't reply to all and send out a reminder that NO unregistered subs will be allowed to play at all.


Then do this except tell him if he puts a toe over the line again he is going to be kicked off the team. Don't accept him on the team again after this season is over.

Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: LifeOnPluto on December 17, 2013, 08:36:08 PM
I think it's multi-part.

First you have to correct Luke immediately and publicly every time he tries to undermine you. If you send out an email that says the team needs to arrive at 7:30 and he sends one out that says 7:15, just Reply All to his email and say, "7:30 is fine. No need to be there sooner."

If James sets the line up and Luke says something else, immediately say, "No, Luke, James has Jodi playing third base, not first. Jodi, you're on first."

And, when he starts talking down to you, roll your eyes and walk away.

If Luke wants to be in charge of his own team, he can go create his own team. This kind of behaviour can quickly become toxic on a for-fun recreational team. I've been there.

Then, after a few public corrections, if Luke continues, I'd pull him aside after a game or at another time and say, "Luke, you need to go along with what James and I say. If you want to run your own team, you're free to create one. But. this isn't your team and if you're unhappy with how we do things, you'll need to go to a different team." It may be worthwhile to have James with you for the conversation if at all possible to show it's a team decision (captains' decision) and not you being and over-emotional four year old.

I agree with this entire post.

This is complete speculation, but I wonder if Luke thinks that "girls can't be good sports captains"? (I assume you're a woman, OP) hence, he (as "the man") has no compunction in undermining your authority?
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Ceallach on December 17, 2013, 08:46:59 PM
I agree with the posters who say shut him down everytime.   If he is saying something wrong, send out a correction and be clear and firm in what you say.   That way people will know who has the authority.

Do you think that he is being deliberately rude, or is it more that he is over-enthusiastic and trying to be helpful?   Because I could see the latter being possible too in which case you can hopefully reign him in.   If it's the former and he is just a jerk who things he's in charge then I doubt anything will change his behaviour!
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on December 17, 2013, 09:16:42 PM
I agree w/ the immediate smackdown, but it needs to include the word "captain"


"No, Luke--as captain of the team, I have called practice for 7:30. Everyone, see you then."
"Luke, do not contact anyone to sub in. I'm the captain, and I'll take care of it." Don't explain the whys--you're not educating him. You're drawing boundaries; don't get into conversations.
   Do it in a reply-to-all--everybody needs to see that you are the captain, because it is confusing when the Lukes of the world do this stuff.

But I also like the idea of communicating directly with him. Maybe go for the halfway point:
reply only to him, cc James: "Luke, I am the captain of this team; James is the backup. We make decisions on behalf of the team. Please do not interfere with our captaining duties; it creates confusion and wastes energy."

And then the third time: "Luke, you have a lot of initiative and are decisive; you clearly like being in charge. However, James and I are the co-captains of this team, and having a member take over our roles is frustrating for everyone. You'd make a great captain, but this team has one. Have you thought about starting your own team? I can put you in touch with the league leaders."

And yes on the "bcc" thing for all emails as well.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: cicero on December 18, 2013, 03:47:33 AM
I agree with the PPs.

There is nothing wrong with assertively/firmly saying "you are not the team captain; I am, and James is second in command period end of discussion."

TELL him that you are the team captain and he needs to stop immediately with the emails. if he has a problem with a decision that you made - then he needs to communicate this to you directly

Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Winterlight on December 18, 2013, 08:02:45 AM
I think you and James need to speak with Luke together. Sit him down and point out specific instances, as you have here, where he has overstepped. And then clearly and concisely tell him that as captains, those decisions are for you and James to make, not him. If he tries to argue (and he will) point out that this is not a discussion; this is simply you and James informing him of the way things run on this team and that he is not to do it again.

Then, if he does (and he will, to test the boundaries) I suggest suspsending him for a couple of games until he understands that he is not the captain.

Agreed. This goes on because he's allowed to do it.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on December 18, 2013, 08:27:31 AM
Thanks, everyone!  I really appreciate the tips.

I think initially Luke meant well - he would give a few pointers before and after games and had a lot of good tips to pass on thanks to his experience in the league we now play in.  However, he's crossed from being a little over-enthusiastic to full-fledged "I'm in charge" mode, and it's led to a lot of frustration that I've seen on other teammate's faces.

We have a game tonight, I'll let everyone know how it goes.  I'll also speak to James at some point in the next few weeks-  we don't have another game for 3 weeks - and we can come up with an approach.  I do think to some extent Luke has a hard time listening to me because I'm younger than he is.  James is older, and he has almost always completely backed me up.  (cases where he hasn't have been when I have been wrong, and he always corrects me behind the scenes!  That's why there are two of us!  :) )

Thanks again, everyone!
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: bopper on December 18, 2013, 08:45:28 AM
I am going to assume that Luke is coming from a good but misguided place.


"Luke, James and I need to talk to you about something. Recently a number of inidents have happened where you are trying to take on a leadership role.  For example, telling people that they need to be there at 7:15 instead of 7:30 like I had emailed, or inviting subs to the game.  Now I know you are trying to be helpful, but as I am Captain of this team all communications regarding the team need to come from me or it gets confusing.  In addition, telling people to bring subs when they are not on the roster may cause forfeitures and frustration.  We welcome your input, but go through us.  If you feel that we need 15 minutes extra practice, call us up and tell us why. Then we can make the decision and inform the team. If you feel like there are not enough subs, contact us and we can work with you to solicit more.  But what we cannot have is you trying to take over leadership of the team."
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on December 18, 2013, 10:27:06 AM
I agree with the PPs.

There is nothing wrong with assertively/firmly saying "you are not the team captain; I am, and James is second in command period end of discussion."

TELL him that you are the team captain and he needs to stop immediately with the emails. if he has a problem with a decision that you made - then he needs to communicate this to you directly

I actually think that starting with this is drama-creating.

In many situations, I think it's best to never talk about what you -don't- want and instead focus on what you -do- want.

"I want to be the only person issuing these sorts of decisions."  not "I want you to stop interfering."

It's just lower drama, and it's just as clear.

And I love bopper's script, but I'd change this:

Quote
But what we cannot have is you trying to take over leadership of the team.

"...is you making leadership-only decisions for the team."

Especially if he's semi-clueless, don't accuse him of trying to take over. But even if he _is_ trying to take over, you'll get derailed if you actually accuse him of it.

Stick with focusing on these points:
   -it's confusing for all the members
   -it makes your job harder because you have to spend energy clarifying and contradicting.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Winterlight on December 19, 2013, 09:04:16 AM
How did it go?
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on December 19, 2013, 10:12:55 AM
It went ... interesting. 

I got there, and Luke was warming up with another teammate, "Kate", as well as some guy I had never seen before.  As the guy was wearing jeans and was quite affectionate with Kate, I figured he was her boyfriend and was just there to hang out. 

Well, it got to be gametime, I had my pre-game meeting with the ref, and next thing I knew, random guy was removing his jeans to reveal athletic shorts underneath.  I was NOT happy to say the least.  As one teammate was not there yet, I gave him a brief benefit of the doubt and asked Luke if missing teammate had said he wouldn't be there.  "Oh, no, I hadn't heard anything, he's Kate's boyfriend and wanted to play so he can play until "Josh" gets here and it will be fine."  As hard as it was to keep from raising my voice, I reminded him that we did NOT need a sub, that we had enough players, and that non-rostered players were not to be asked to fill-in.  Josh showed up shortly afterward and extra guy did not play.

However, after the first match, one teammate (who was the reason we had to institute the strict sub policy - he has a "more the merrier" mentality) asked if extra guy wanted to play.  I told him that he would not be playing - we didn't need him and he was non-roster.  Teammate was cool with that, Luke overheard the conversation and snapped that "It was already understood" and stomped off to get ready for next match.

During one match, he kept telling James where to stand and what to do, and finally James turned to him in exasperation and had a few words.  Same thing happened with Josh at another point.  As we played quite well, it was obvious that we couldn't chalk up the snappishness to frustration with poor play.

I did not have a chance to talk with Luke afterward - it can be extremely chaotic in the venue when teams are switching out - but I was able to realize that I'm not the only one who is unhappy about things.  I'm going to stick with my original plan to talk to James about the situation during the break and get him to back me up. 

Thanks, everyone!   
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Redneck Gravy on December 19, 2013, 11:00:33 AM
I captain a number of sports teams, I once sent the following email to my team and the "hijacking captain" CC to everyone (not BCC either, clear to everyone so they could hit reply all) 

I am captain of this team, I put it together.  If you would like another captain please say so and I will leave and put another team together.  Otherwise, the information I send you is the information this team will go with.

Responses were along the lines of oh, no Redneck we want you, we were confused by the conflicting instructions so from now on we will listen to you and ONLY YOU.

I have done this for over 20 years and quite frankly no one else wants the thankless payment free job.  I don't bring on players that aren't a good personality fit, I don't care how darn good they are either!



Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: perpetua on December 19, 2013, 11:06:12 AM
Ouch. When I first read the OP I thought perhaps he was just overenthusiastic and wanting to share knowledge, but the update pretty much puts paid to that.

Luke's way overstepping and I hope you can sort this out - I've been in a situation where I was undermined in a club activity and it wasn't fun. Reinforcing your position to the other team members (ie, immediately correcting him on email in front of everyone if he tries to undermine you, as already suggested) is the way to go in front of everyone else. In addition though, he needs to be told in no uncertain terms that you are the captain of this team - with James there to back you up and as a witness - and if he's not happy to abide by your instructions and fall in with the existing team structure then he's quite free to leave and find another team more to his liking.

You have to be prepared to follow through on that though. Is removing him from the team a possibility if he doesn't fall into line, or is it the sort of organisation where it's tough to get rid of anyone?
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: English1 on December 23, 2013, 09:57:23 AM
An important part of playing in a team is being a team player - and that includes respect for the team captains/managers, so even if you sometimes disagree with their decisions you keep your thoughts to yourself. It's as important as having a talent for the sport.

You need to remind him of this.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Minmom3 on December 23, 2013, 12:16:34 PM
"Luke, you are rapidly wearing out your welcome here on MY TEAM.  You can stay if you will stop your wanna-be-Captain orders and directions, but if you aren't willing to do that, you need to go start your own team.   What's it going to be?"
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: blarg314 on December 23, 2013, 07:11:52 PM

I was playing on a softball team for my departmnet  in grad school. It was the low competition league - pitch to your own team, keep your own score, etc - we had players from our department, plus spouses and friends, to make up the numbers. Very mellow in general, and just playing for fun, with no playoffs or rankings.

We had one player who took it seriously, and like to boss people - tell them what to do, yell at them if they didn't do what he thought they should. He wasn't particularly malicious, just over-eager and not very socially adept. It was, however, very, very annoying. A couple of us got together and had a brief chat with the organizers, telling them that either they got him to shut up, or we wouldn't play. There was a rule that you had to have at least 3 of each gender on the field at any time, and our department was not over-populated with women, so us not playing would mean the team couldn't play.

So if Luke is getting on the other players' nerves, I wouldn't be too surprised if other players come to you, asking you to get Luke to shut up.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on December 23, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
The high-school quarterback from my graduating class told me once (we were both mid-20s) that he played on two different softball teams. One of them was very serious--they were all former high-school and college athletes, and they wanted to WIN! But he and a friend found that wearying, because they also just liked to play.
 
So they started a team whose purpose was specifically simply to play. They didn't care if they won or not--sure, they tried to hit the ball when they could, but their primary purpose was to have fun.

They had someone join who acted like the buy on blarg314's team. And after about a month, my friend took him aside and said, "If you want to win, you need to quit this team. If you don't quit, and you don't chill out, we'll kick you off. This is the team that is ONLY for fun."  He didn't wait for people to come to him--we took the vibe pretty seriously.

But of course, his authority was crystal clear--he'd started the team, he'd recruited or vetted the members, and he told every one of them: "this team is for fun--it's not the team to join if you care whether you win or how well your teammates play."
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Nemesis on December 23, 2013, 07:47:11 PM
Azeliabloom,
I say this with utmost conviction. You will need to politely tell Luke that this team is not a good fit for him, and wish him all the best in joining another team that better suited his needs and talent.

In any team sports, team dynamics, more than talent, is the key to maintaining enjoyment and securing a win. Luke is not a team player, has problems understanding team play and is generally disrupting the team harmony. AND all this is happening when your team is doing well. Believe me when I say that he will be the disruptive force when the team is not doing well. He will be the one to cause people to get demotivated and drop out of this team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Mergatroyd on December 23, 2013, 08:03:07 PM
I'd like to know how this turns out!
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: kherbert05 on December 23, 2013, 08:06:16 PM
I captain a number of sports teams, I once sent the following email to my team and the "hijacking captain" CC to everyone (not BCC either, clear to everyone so they could hit reply all) 

I am captain of this team, I put it together.  If you would like another captain please say so and I will leave and put another team together.  Otherwise, the information I send you is the information this team will go with.

Responses were along the lines of oh, no Redneck we want you, we were confused by the conflicting instructions so from now on we will listen to you and ONLY YOU.

I have done this for over 20 years and quite frankly no one else wants the thankless payment free job.  I don't bring on players that aren't a good personality fit, I don't care how darn good they are either!


I LOVE this. If this wouldn't be appropriate for the OP for some reason, she and her back up need to have a come to Jesus meeting with Luke that gives him 3 options


1. Quit now
2. Stay with the team and behave
3. Stay with the team claiming to behave, but keep up the same behavior resulting in him being kicked off the team with a notice to the league that he is being kicked off the team due to unsportsmanlike behavior.


In my book being disrespectful to the captain/coach, and attempting to break rules is unsportsmanlike - and his behavior on the field ordering teammates around tops the cake.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 08, 2014, 08:33:16 PM
So, tonight, everything blew up.  I think I may have gotten through to Luke, but we will see what happens.

I arrived early, and warmed up with some teammates.  Luke showed up with a friend.  When we were approaching game time and were still a player short, Luke announced that his friend would play.  Before I could say anything, another teammate showed up and the subject was dropped.  So, I decided not to argue it at that point - it was game time - and we continued on.

The first two games went fine.  Then came game three.  We haven't played in three weeks, and it showed.  Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.  Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.  Several plays later, Luke came back out, putting Joseph in.  Things went fine, Joseph had another bad hit, and Luke literally ran onto the court to pull Joseph out.  He refused, and I backed him up.  Later in the game, I quickly asked Joseph if he would be okay with subbing in Luke for the last few points, and he agreed.  So, I called for the sub, Luke came in - and proceeded to literally shove me out of the way to get to a ball.

So, after the game, I gave him an earful.  He refused to admit he was wrong for the shoving.  However, he did agree that yes, I am the captain, and that means he is to not show up with unrostered subs without my permission.  I also told him that he needed to knock off the nagging and the harping during the game - we all know how to play, and all he is doing is creating a distraction.  We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early - but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.

I did tell him that I do enjoy playing with him - which is true - and that I like having him on the team, but he needs to tone it down.

We'll see what comes of it.  I wasn't always nice during the whole confrontation, but based on what I know about the guy, I think it's how it needed to be said. 
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 08, 2014, 09:44:28 PM
Yeah, if he's going to sub for someone without saying anything to that person or the captain, and he's going to physically shove you, you're going to need to clock him on the head pretty hard with that clue-by-four.

Thanks for the update--I'm so glad to hear more of this. I think you've got a problem that has a lot of similarities to stuff other people go through (I recognize some work situations in your story).


Honestly, I think you should just touch base quietly with a few people, to manage the uproar on the team, and then kick him out. Be prepared--if he does this again, you need to.


Quote
Luke announced that his friend would play.  Before I could say anything, another teammate showed up and the subject was dropped.

I don't think *you* should have dropped the subject. I think you should have gone directly to Luke and said to him (not announcing to everyone, just say directly to him), "Luke, you are not the captain of this team, and you are not to recruit substitutes. In addition to the whole 'chain of command' thing, and the whole 'other people have been paying team members for a long time' thing, you don't seem to be aware of the league rules. We will be punished if we use an unrostered substitute. Don't do that again."

Quote
Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
   If you'd stepped in and interfered with this--even if it WAS awkward at the time--you'd probably have prevented this:

Quote
Things went fine, Joseph had another bad hit, and Luke literally ran onto the court to pull Joseph out.  He refused, and I backed him up.  Later in the game, I quickly asked Joseph if he would be okay with subbing in Luke for the last few points, and he agreed.  So, I called for the sub, Luke came in - and proceeded to literally shove me out of the way to get to a ball.

It's so easy for me to Monday-morning quarterback, and I don't mean to. It's hard to act on the spot. But I just want to encourage you--and any other people who might need it--to be confrontational with Luke. It's the only thing that will work, and other people on the team need you to do this.

One thing that happens is, if -you- create a power vacuum (which you have, actually, by not directly addressing these things, and maybe by not announcing early enough what your plan is for rostering enough players--I have created exactly such a power vacuum by keeping my thoughts to myself, or by not being proactive enough), people like Luke will try to fill that vacuum.


Quote
We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.
How is that a compromise? You may have just reinforced his idea that he's the one who gets to decide whether things are acceptable.

This is a great start, but I have this feeling you're going to need to be even tougher, and more confrontational "in the moment."

Don't be afraid, going forward to be firm, stern, and really, really bossy.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Onyx_TKD on January 08, 2014, 10:15:52 PM
Quote
We compromised that those who want extra help are welcome to show up early but he also needs to understand that several players are coming straight from work and getting there early is next to impossible.
How is that a compromise? You may have just reinforced his idea that he's the one who gets to decide whether things are acceptable.

I think the compromise is that Luke gets an officially sanctioned time to coach players who want his help, but (a) he only gets to coach those who actively seek his help and (b) he has to do it outside of official practice or games. Once actual practice or game time starts, he has to keep his critiques to himself and not bother players who aren't up to his personal standards. He doesn't get to decide who needs to play better; he only gets to help those who decide on their own that they want to improve and who seek him out.

If Luke is genuinely good at the sport and if he complies with the limits set by the team captains, I think it could actually be a very good solution. Players who want some extra help can get it. Players who just want to play don't have to put up with Luke's critiques. Luke has an outlet to share his expertise without harassing other players or dealing with league administrative rules. The captains get to turn Luke's enthusiasm into a team asset rather than a team liability. Everyone wins, if Luke can manage to behave himself.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 08, 2014, 10:52:10 PM
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: LeveeWoman on January 08, 2014, 10:59:17 PM
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Especially that bit about the shoving AzaleaBloom!
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 09, 2014, 01:05:37 AM
Azalea, have you considered how then other team members are being affected by Luke? Your league is a recreational one, right? If I was on your team, I'd consider approaching you and dating having Luke there makes it less fun.

If that were me, if there's even a hint at another display like that Luke would be off the team, and if that happened the middle of the game I'd bench him. Luke is one player, one player that is obviously causing problems. You need to think about the entire team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Winterlight on January 09, 2014, 08:25:44 AM
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Have to agree.

And honestly, if I were on your team, I'd be looking at leaving. Luke would be too much stress for what's supposed to be recreation.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: English1 on January 09, 2014, 08:52:57 AM
My OH could be a Luke if he were that way inclined. He plays in a team for a sport he used to play as a semi-pro, and he is their best player. However, he accepts the others' limitations (it's a vets team, one of the players is aged over 60!) and works with the Manager, not against him. The manager often gets him to do team talks and drill sessions and he is sort of unofficial captain on the pitch. He pushes those with ability quite hard when they make mistakes, but when a less able player makes a mistake he'll tell them 'great effort, try again'. He certainly doesn't humiliate lesser players in the way Luke did. For him, although he'd love to be winning more often, it's now a recreational thing. He has been asked to join other more successful teams, but he sticks with his own team. He would never contradict the manager and when the manager is doing the half time talk and some players always start losing interest/chatting, he'll tell them to be quiet and pay attention to 'Manager'.

It sounds to me as if Luke is not a good fit for your team. He is playing to win, whereas for other longer term members, it's played for recreation (and winning is a bonus). If Luke is a good player, he may well be frustrated at the skill levels of others and not able to accept that some people's abilities will never meet his ambitions. He'll get increasingly frustrated, and other team members will get increasingly discouraged. To be honest, I'd suggest he finds a team that is a better fit for him. Talented players that want to take it very seriously and competitively need to be in a team full of people like that or it causes trouble.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: wolfie on January 09, 2014, 09:05:02 AM
That makes some sense--but I definitely do not see Luke behaving himself. I see this reinforcing his bossiness.

People who wanted Luke's help always were free to seek him out.

Have to agree.

And honestly, if I were on your team, I'd be looking at leaving. Luke would be too much stress for what's supposed to be recreation.

I would be doing the same thing. Not sure how it works exactly, since I don't play sports, but if i paid for the season then I would play until the end of it and then next season either not sign up or sign up for a different team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: SamiHami on January 09, 2014, 09:13:58 AM
I think after the shoving incident ---  especially since he refused to understand that was wrong  ---  at the bare minimum I would suspend him for a game or two. That is not showing good sportsmanship by any stretch of the imagination. I really think you are being far too easy on this guy. As others have said, this is supposed to be for recreation and he is introducing far too much drama.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: artk2002 on January 09, 2014, 09:28:38 AM
Add me to the list of people who would be leaving your team. I'm sorry, but your 'compromise' is just the camel's nose under the edge of the tent. He's repeatedly broken (or tried to break) the rules. He attempted to do a substitution that wasn't wanted. Finally, he shoved you. That by itself should earn him the opportunity to join a different team, or to form his own.

I'm sure that he's played on other teams before. I'd suggest doing some research and finding out if he's done this to them. I think that you'll find that this is a pattern -- one that can result in the team breaking up.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 09, 2014, 09:29:50 AM
The reason I did not call him out for certain things - such as bringing someone to play - is because the game was either starting or in progress.  The ref we had last night is very strict about the rules, and gave us one warning about delay of game when I had to call him out for a certain behavior.  Had he actually called us for the delay, we would have lost points and possibly faced other penalties. 

As far as allowing the pre-game coaching sessions, the reason is two-fold - one, if there are those who genuinally want to work with him, they can do so.  Two, if no one shows up, then it will make it clear to him - I get the impression he doesn't belive what he doesn't see - that the teammates don't want it.  I know at one time there were teammates who did appreciate this, and if that is still the case, then more power to them.  This was much less of a problem then the game time coaching - the bigger problem was the "No, you need to be here at x time" situation.  It's kind of a "what you do with your free time" sort of thing, if that makes sense.

I spoke with Joseph and Joshua after the game, and we discussed the whole situation.  The two of them had played drop-in during the holiday break, and they were telling me that Luke showed up later on and jumped in on their team.  (as is expected in the drop-in sessions.)  They said that he pulled the coaching crap on the drop-in team as well, and that the playing level dropped drastically when he started doing that.

At this point, I know half of the team - Joseph, Joshua and myself - are ready to boot Luke off the team.  If Luke leaves, he will bring "Linda" with him (a former teammate of his from his old team) and I suspect "Claire" will leave also.  (she is good friends with Luke's fiancee)  I know James has been frustrated with him, but I also think he worries about losing half the team.

Okay, that was confusing.  To sum up:  Half of the team wants him off.  Half of the team will want him to stay.  If I step up and boot him off, I need to be ready to form a new team.  Next week is the final week of the season, then there is a short break.  I can start recruiting then if it comes down to it.   
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: lmyrs on January 09, 2014, 03:07:57 PM
I was on a team with a Luke and, I quit. And so did a bunch of other people. And the team folded and Luke put together a new team with some of the old teammates and like-minded people. I had created a new team by the and we were all a lot happier. In other words, you may lose half your team if you boot him but you may lose half your team if you don't. So decide which team you'd rather be on and act accordingly.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Lynn2000 on January 09, 2014, 03:39:34 PM
lmyrs has a good point. Do you want to be on a team with Luke and people who reinforce his rude behavior, or on a team with people who respect your authority and contribute to a good vibe? Because I feel like that is what it's coming down to.  :-\

I don't know anything about sports. But the impression I get is that Luke is allowed to trample all over the rules, treat other players badly, and undermine the coaches and I'm not seeing any consequences for it. Compromise? That just tells Luke his opinion has weight, that he has power in this situation. I'm sure recruiting reliable players is hard, but there are so many people in the world, what does Luke bring to this team that is so wonderful he can't be kicked out? It's almost like working in an office with the disagreeable boss's son who can't be fired, where the best the manager can hope for is blunting him. That's not an office where I would want to work, and given that this is totally voluntary and recreational, I wouldn't blame others for dropping out/not returning next season due to Luke.

Maybe the team would benefit from some more officially-listed regular players anyway. For example, when Luke showed up at the game with an unregistered friend he hoped could play, for the second time in this thread, I think one would be justified in telling Luke that neither his friend nor he were going to play, because he has been repeatedly reminded of this rule. But, it seems like you had only just enough people to play--so if Luke had been kicked out of the game before it started, no one would have been able to play. And if that's the case, that's a situation where he has the power. Even if you aren't going to kick Luke off the team entirely, I think you need a more comfortable margin of error so he can't hold the game hostage like that.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: VorFemme on January 09, 2014, 04:12:58 PM
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 09, 2014, 05:21:17 PM
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I agree.  Better to lose players who want to go with Luke and rebuild a team with like minded members.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 09, 2014, 05:54:07 PM
And when you are building your team for next season remember: The wants and needs of one person should not outweigh the wants and needs of the group as a whole. 
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 09, 2014, 07:46:09 PM
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I would suggest this as well.

Luke does have a leader's instincts--so encourage him to follow them by forming his own team. Start suggesting it, even if it's admiringly.

And start recruiting. Maybe even mention that you have a sneaking suspicion that Luke will want to branch out on his own, so you want to fill your roster with people who'll enjoy playing.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: artk2002 on January 09, 2014, 08:06:55 PM
Luke does have a leader's instincts ...

I disagree, very strongly. Someone with a leader's instincts knows to respect other leaders and knows when they should be following. Luke has an ego, not leadership potential. A leader doesn't ignore the rules, despite being reminded of them repeatedly. A leader doesn't pull a player arbitrarily. A leader doesn't shove someone else out of the way in their rush to show how great they are.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 09, 2014, 08:15:27 PM
I'd personally like to watch how Luke would go running his own team, to be honest. I can't see it going well.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 09, 2014, 08:19:09 PM
I agree that Luke needs to leave the team, or it's likely that other team members will...

I was once in Joseph's position. It was mixed softball - a friendly league. I was playing second base and dropped a catch. The guy playing left field decided that wasn't good enough. He came running up, and ordered me to swap positions with him. (He basically snapped "You're playing outfield!"). Because the game was in play, I had no option but to go to left field. To make matters worse, the team captain saw all this, but never said a thing. In fairness, the other guy was a much stronger player than me. Nonetheless, the incident really affected my enjoyment of the game, and my view of the team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: blarg314 on January 09, 2014, 08:32:29 PM
With a week left in the season, I'd suggest finishing out this season - then recruiting new team members to replace any who follow Luke.  Let him know that you, Joseph, and Joshua really think that he would be happier as the coach of his own team.  Whether or not he takes Linda & Claire with him, have replacements lined up...

Because you'll be replacing Luke, no matter what.  He just does not "fit" in your current team.

I think that's the best approach.  Wait until the last game, and tell Luke that he's not welcome back the following season, because of his refusal to learn or follow the rules of the game, and his boorish behaviour towards other people.

If most of the people wanted Luke to stay, I would personally consider resigning as Captain and letting Luke take over - you can't lead people who don't want you in charge. But as it's a bit of a split, I'd side with the people who are behaving politely, rather than rewarding the bullies.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Margo on January 10, 2014, 10:58:08 AM
It sounds as though part of the difficulty with addressing this with Luke is that tere isn't really time, or a convenient moment, to have that conversation with him at games. For that reason, I would do an e-mail to him, cc'd to the other team-members, in the sorts of terms which have bee nsugegsted above - e.g. telling (not asking) him not to send out notifications about timings / lines ups / subs, reminfing him that you as captain (or in your absence, James as deputy)  will determine whether subs are needed, and that during games neither he does not have the authority to make substitutions unless you have explicitly  given him that authority for that particular game, and that you expect him to accept the direct he is given by the team captain, or by whomever you have authorised for a particular game, whether he agrees with it or not.

I would then add in that he is clearly very into the game and obviously feels ready to lead a team so if he does not feel that he can keep to the rules of your team, you will compeltely understand  if he choses to leave to set up his own team.

I would speciafically ask him to confirm to you whether he wishes to remain in you team, in which case he will need to also confirm that he understands and will keep to the ground rules which have been set out, or whether he wishes to leave, in which case you wish him well.

I would be inclined to add that if you don't hear back from him by [date] with confirmation that he is willing to paly by the team rules, that you will presume he is not staying and will plan  for next season accordingly.

This means that if he wants to stay, he has to explicitly acknowledge your rules and confirm he will stick to them.

I would also be inclined to make it a condition of his staying that he apologises, publically , to you and to Joseph for his behaviour at the last game, but you may wish to raise that in a separate, private email to him only (although I would cc James as your deputy)

I think you do need to take the bull by the horns and either kick him out or give him an ultimatum and hold him to it. I can see why James is worries about losing half the team, but I think that is going to happen either way. Either Luke goes, with his pals, or other members of the team will go rather than have to put up with him.  But if you give him a choice, and are totally open and very, very clear about the options, then if he stays, the rest of the team can feel confident that you are going to keep him under control, and are more likely to be willing to stay, and if he goes, the others can see that you're willing to take tough decisions for the good of the team and I suspect that word of mouth may mean you find new people to replace those who go, more easily than you might expect.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: RooRoo on January 10, 2014, 10:33:21 PM
I'm wondering, are there team members who were there in the beginning, but haven't been showing up lately?

That is the way I have handled Luke types of thing in the past: I just disappear. If I feel unwanted or unnecessary, I'm gone. (Which I would feel if I was treated like Joseph was.) If I was important to the team, the leader would have said or done something, right? (And, yes, that's passive-aggressive. I'm working on it.) If people have disappeared from your team, Luke is the reason.

I like Margo's suggestion, though I think it's a last resort. But you do, right now, have to stop Luke's interference.

"My friend can sub!"
"No, he can't. That's the rule." (No explaining, or soothing him.)

"Joseph, I'm taking over."
"Luke, I'll make a substitution if we need one." No smile. (Joseph really feels appreciated now!)

"Everybody show up half an hour early!"
"Luke, that's my decision to make. If you want to volunteer to give extra coaching, you can come early and work with anyone who wants to."

Free gratis advice from Ms. Do-as-I-say-not-what-I-do! (Though I'm working on it.)
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Queen of Clubs on January 11, 2014, 12:01:15 PM
As others have said, I'd kick Luke out once the season is over.  At this point, half the team might walk with him.  If you let the situation continue, the team will be full of Luke's friends and subs he's brought in when the other, non-Luke-friend people have quit.

Right now, you'll be looking for people to fill maybe half a team; later, you'll lose your entire team to Luke and run the risk of not being able to build a whole team if people who quit have talked about how Luke took over the team and you, as Captain, didn't seem able to stop him.  If I were one of those people, I'd be wary of joining another team you captain since you weren't able to stop Luke from taking over your other one.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 11, 2014, 12:05:37 PM
I'm wondering, are there team members who were there in the beginning, but haven't been showing up lately?


That's a good question--especially since at your last game, you nearly had to forfeit because you didn't have enough people at first.

And if people are coming late, it may be because they don't feel as invested; why hurry to get to a place that makes you uncomfortable when it's supposed to be fun?

If you have members like that, you might touch base with them in a general way, and ask what they want in next year's team.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Possum on January 11, 2014, 02:36:53 PM
Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.
Even if Joseph can take care of himself, this is where you, as team captain, need to step in.  You need to make sure Luke knows that such behavior is *not* acceptable--and the team needs to see you take that stance.  They all know what Luke's been up to, and they need to know you're going to be proactive about it.
Quote
Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
And here's where you absolutely should've stepped in.  He shouldn't have been able to make that call once, let alone numerous times.  But you didn't, and by letting Luke run the show the rest of the game, you ceded control to him--and the team saw it.

The first time he physically handled a teammate, you should've benched him.  There shouldn't have been a second time.

I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but you need the push here.  This has been going on so long, that Luke knows he can retain control if he just deals with you once in a while (probably sees it as "putting up with" you) and waits it out.  Don't worry about being nice anymore.  He's shown that nice does not work with him.  That doesn't mean you have to be mean, but you can be blunt. 

Don't couch what you say with compliments, don't get detailed.  Don't let him tie you up in minutiae about how this person played (he will), or about how that one was late (he will), or why he does the things he does (he will).  You already knows he thinks he can do no wrong, so he's going to try and argue his side if you let him.

Instead, cut to the core and only the core, and tell him like it is.

"Luke, I'm captain.  You are not.  We've talked about this before, but you keep doing it, and tonight, you were way over the line.  You've got no authority to say when people should show up, you're completely wrong to be making calls about who will play, when they will, and you know why.  Most of all, tonight, you were utterly out of line to physically handle your teammates.  I'm done.  I'm pulling you for the next three games, and after that, if you choose to return, it'll be to play my way--the way this team played long before you arrived.  If you can't do that, there's plenty of other teams in the league."

When you say it, pull him aside if you want, but don't worry about doing this where no one else will hear.  Your team needs to know you're doing something about this, and that you'll stand solid on it.  Whatever you do, don't be apologetic to Luke.  Don't express your sadness at having to do that.  He will see that as weakness, as a foothold. 

He will try to make this out to be your fault to some degree--or Joseph's, or someone else's.  He'll try to deflect, to muddy the waters.  Do not let him redirect.  Hell, just don't even engage.  It's no longer about him.  It's about fixing this fracture in your team--in this microcommunity. 

Just repeat "this discussion is over" and walk away.

It might feel like what you're doing is rude--and maybe it is, rude to him.  But to not end this is being rude to everyone else on the team, and enabling Luke to keep being ruder.  Your team will probably be glad to witness you firmly planting a foot down.

If you don't think you can do it in person, do it in mail.  One on one, CC'ing the directly affected--and then write your team.  "Team, I know there's been problems with Luke.  I'd be discreet and say 'a player,' but I think we're all aware.  This past game, he physically handled two players, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've given him an ultimatum about that and his other behaviors, and a three-game suspension.  If you want to dispute it, come to me.  After those three games, he's free to return, so long as he'll do it on our terms.  Any further bullying from him will cause him to be removed from the team.

"I'm sorry it's gone on this long.  I like to believe in the best in everyone, but sometimes, bullies just won't respond like normal folk.  Thank you for hanging in there, and I'm sorry to everyone who's been negatively impacted by him.  As your captain, I'll do my best to make sure that this is the last of it.  If you have questions or suggestions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"

Firm up that spine!  You need to shore it up with steel, even if temporarily.  Otherwise, plan on half of your team being gone next season, filled with Luke's picks, and your captainship being reduced to nothing but an emeritus position as he takes over.

More power to you.  You can do this.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Alpacas on January 11, 2014, 08:19:15 PM
Luke started ripping into one member of the team in particular.  Joseph is the oldest person on the team, and has been there the longest.  He is also more than capable of taking care of himself.  He turned around and told Luke that he knew how to play and that he could knock it off.
Even if Joseph can take care of himself, this is where you, as team captain, need to step in.  You need to make sure Luke knows that such behavior is *not* acceptable--and the team needs to see you take that stance.  They all know what Luke's been up to, and they need to know you're going to be proactive about it.
Quote
Luke retaliated by subbing himself in for Joseph after he had some bad hits.  It blindsided Joseph and myself.
And here's where you absolutely should've stepped in.  He shouldn't have been able to make that call once, let alone numerous times.  But you didn't, and by letting Luke run the show the rest of the game, you ceded control to him--and the team saw it.

The first time he physically handled a teammate, you should've benched him.  There shouldn't have been a second time.

I'm sorry if I'm blunt, but you need the push here.  This has been going on so long, that Luke knows he can retain control if he just deals with you once in a while (probably sees it as "putting up with" you) and waits it out.  Don't worry about being nice anymore.  He's shown that nice does not work with him.  That doesn't mean you have to be mean, but you can be blunt. 

Don't couch what you say with compliments, don't get detailed.  Don't let him tie you up in minutiae about how this person played (he will), or about how that one was late (he will), or why he does the things he does (he will).  You already knows he thinks he can do no wrong, so he's going to try and argue his side if you let him.

Instead, cut to the core and only the core, and tell him like it is.

"Luke, I'm captain.  You are not.  We've talked about this before, but you keep doing it, and tonight, you were way over the line.  You've got no authority to say when people should show up, you're completely wrong to be making calls about who will play, when they will, and you know why.  Most of all, tonight, you were utterly out of line to physically handle your teammates.  I'm done.  I'm pulling you for the next three games, and after that, if you choose to return, it'll be to play my way--the way this team played long before you arrived.  If you can't do that, there's plenty of other teams in the league."

When you say it, pull him aside if you want, but don't worry about doing this where no one else will hear.  Your team needs to know you're doing something about this, and that you'll stand solid on it.  Whatever you do, don't be apologetic to Luke.  Don't express your sadness at having to do that.  He will see that as weakness, as a foothold. 

He will try to make this out to be your fault to some degree--or Joseph's, or someone else's.  He'll try to deflect, to muddy the waters.  Do not let him redirect.  Hell, just don't even engage.  It's no longer about him.  It's about fixing this fracture in your team--in this microcommunity. 

Just repeat "this discussion is over" and walk away.

It might feel like what you're doing is rude--and maybe it is, rude to him.  But to not end this is being rude to everyone else on the team, and enabling Luke to keep being ruder.  Your team will probably be glad to witness you firmly planting a foot down.

If you don't think you can do it in person, do it in mail.  One on one, CC'ing the directly affected--and then write your team.  "Team, I know there's been problems with Luke.  I'd be discreet and say 'a player,' but I think we're all aware.  This past game, he physically handled two players, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back.  I've given him an ultimatum about that and his other behaviors, and a three-game suspension.  If you want to dispute it, come to me.  After those three games, he's free to return, so long as he'll do it on our terms.  Any further bullying from him will cause him to be removed from the team.

"I'm sorry it's gone on this long.  I like to believe in the best in everyone, but sometimes, bullies just won't respond like normal folk.  Thank you for hanging in there, and I'm sorry to everyone who's been negatively impacted by him.  As your captain, I'll do my best to make sure that this is the last of it.  If you have questions or suggestions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"

Firm up that spine!  You need to shore it up with steel, even if temporarily.  Otherwise, plan on half of your team being gone next season, filled with Luke's picks, and your captainship being reduced to nothing but an emeritus position as he takes over.

More power to you.  You can do this.

POD to all of this

Don't just be called the Captain with all its administrative rights but BE the Captain.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: bopper on January 13, 2014, 08:21:04 AM

POD to all of this

Don't just be called the Captain with all its administrative rights but BE the Captain.

Make sure there is not a leadership vacuum that Luke feels need to be filled.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: English1 on January 13, 2014, 10:41:33 AM
I dont' think it's right to send an email to the team calling Luke a bully and snarking about him. Just focus on what has happened and giving everyone an update without the commentary. Or giving anyone the chance to also undermine your authority by 'disputing' your decision. Keep it professional, and not personal.

 "Team, just to keep you updated. Luke has been given a three-game suspension for physically handling two players at our last match, and for not respecting team management decisions and policies on several occasions.  After those three games, he's free to return, but any further infractions will cause him to be removed from the team.

If you have questions, I'm here.

"Thanks.  Now, what's up for the end-of-season party?"
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 13, 2014, 11:13:57 AM
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may. 
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Possum on January 13, 2014, 11:15:16 AM
I dont' think it's right to send an email to the team calling Luke a bully and snarking about him. Just focus on what has happened and giving everyone an update without the commentary.
If you're referring to the letter I gave, believe me--that's not snarky.  It's nothing that the team doesn't already know quite well, and it's probably much milder than what they're saying amongst themselves.  It's more important for the captain to show some spine and acknowledge how she knows the team is feeling--if she wants to still have a team. 
Quote
"Team, just to keep you updated. Luke has been given a three-game suspension for physically handling two players at our last match, and for not respecting team management decisions and policies on several occasions.  After those three games, he's free to return, but any further infractions will cause him to be removed from the team.
However, I like that wording a lot, too.
Quote
Or giving anyone the chance to also undermine your authority by 'disputing' your decision. Keep it professional, and not personal.
I don't think my letter left the Luke situation open to debate, but even if it did, I doubt there's a single person on the team that would argue in Luke's favor.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Possum on January 13, 2014, 11:26:39 AM
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Bethalize on January 13, 2014, 11:36:14 AM
Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.

I think you had better step down as captain. You seem extremely unwilling to lead, to make decisions, to stand by them and to ensure compliance. From what you say here it seems that you act like you are the chair of a committee. That's not the same thing.

I really don't know what you're expecting people to say at this meeting. People hate conflict, they won't declare their hands and they won't pick one person over another. Certainly being the person to say "He goes or I go" would see me choosing that you go.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 13, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
I get the impression you aren't all that interested in being captain of this team.

Some snippets from the OP that created this impression:

Quote
making me hate the sport I play for fun.


 I took over the team when the previous captain had to quit playing. 


 Since I'm the official captain of record, it is my job to deal with the situation. 


I'm wondering if you've had a change to think about what *you* want from this sport.

I wonder if you'd enjoy the sport more if you simply said, "I'm going to find a different team, one that already has a captain, so I can just play."
  If so, it's OK to quit. It's OK to leave one team and join another (league rules rule, of course).
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 13, 2014, 03:39:51 PM
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.

POD to all of this. Do not allow the team to decide the team dynamics. You are the Captain and should establish and demonstrate the team dynamics.

Take the lead in the pre-game meeting. State team policies.

1. Only the captain or co-captain can set mandatory training times and game meet times. Team members may set up optional training sessions as they would like.
2. No one subs out other players other than the captain or co-captain. If it occurs again, the captain or co-captain will call a time out or the team will be penalized for late start and the penalty will be on the person doing attempting the non-sanctioned subbing.
3. This is a recreational team only. There will be no trash talking to other team members. There will be no physical contact such as shoving of other team members. This behavior will constitute a 1 game penalty.
4. If any team member does not agree to these terms, we will understand when they choose to not return next season.

Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Firecat on January 13, 2014, 04:14:56 PM
James, the co-captain, has called for a pre-game meeting before our next game.  Since the game is much later, it will be easy to do so.  Players getting there right at the start of gametime has always been an issue - for early games, most people are coming straight from work, and we live in an area where the traffic is awful. 

In answer to another question, no, there have not been any players that have left due to Luke.  There has been one who had to take a break for personal/professional reasons, but it was entirely unrelated.  He plans to return in a few months.

Anyway, the pre-game meeting will basically give everyone a chance to air out what needs to be said and do what needs to be done.  If it turns out that the team would prefer to keep Luke there, I will step down as captain and let things fall where they may.
Just so you know, by doing it this way, you're pretty much ceding your authority to all.  You're not making a decision--you're letting them do it, and you'll follow their lead.  If this was a divisive matter, it'd be one thing, but from what I've gathered, it's not.  It sounds like a situation where you need to make the call.

I only say this, as bluntly as I do, because I've been in your shoes.  Almost exactly.  It wasn't a sports team, but it was a team (several), and I took the drawn out, softer approach to dealing with some people who were tremendous bullies.  People were polite to me about it, and privately supportive, but in the end, it killed the team/community.

Three times.

I've put your plan into action three different times, in three different contexts, and each time has failed.  Even people who said they'd stay, they all bailed at the first polite chance they had.  It killed the team/community.  They may do that same thing this time--no one's left yet, but when next season rolls around, some may decide to "skip this season" or "try another team."

For the sake of your team, wear your spine proudly, and your authority with steel and modesty.  You're captain for a reason.  It's all right to rise to it.

I hope you realize I say this not out of criticism, but out of desperate support for you.  It's not an easy thing to do, no matter how in the right you are, and it's even harder to tell what the right thing to do--and the right way to do it--is when you're in the midst of it.  Forest and trees; hindsight, etc.  But you can do it.  Hell, I grew up with a spine of linguini.  If I can do it, you can!

Stay steely, Cap'n.

POD to all of this. Do not allow the team to decide the team dynamics. You are the Captain and should establish and demonstrate the team dynamics.

Take the lead in the pre-game meeting. State team policies.

1. Only the captain or co-captain can set mandatory training times and game meet times. Team members may set up optional training sessions as they would like.
2. No one subs out other players other than the captain or co-captain. If it occurs again, the captain or co-captain will call a time out or the team will be penalized for late start and the penalty will be on the person doing attempting the non-sanctioned subbing.
3. This is a recreational team only. There will be no trash talking to other team members. There will be no physical contact such as shoving of other team members. This behavior will constitute a 1 game penalty.
4. If any team member does not agree to these terms, we will understand when they choose to not return next season.

Unfortunately, dealing with the "Lukes" of the world (and their apologists, who in my opinion are almost worse) is one of the down sides of being in a leadership position.

At one time, I was one of the coordinators (so, one of the two people in charge) for a local non-profit event. We had one volunteer who was very enthusiastic, but was disruptive during meetings in the sense that he felt he needed to have input on every single decision, would insist on talking on every agenda item, and was extremely opinionated. And could get very huffy/hostile if someone tried to move the conversation along. Basically, due to this one person, meetings were taking three times as long as necessary (I wish I was exaggerating). And this is someone who was a volunteer, not a board member.

Now, I did basically like the person, and appreciated the enthusiasm. But he was antagonizing some of our other volunteers who were board members, and some other things. So my co-leader and I decided that we needed to address the behavior, and we scheduled a private meeting with the volunteer in question. We intended to discuss, as respectfully as possible, the behaviors we were finding problematic and try to help him understand what we wanted him to do instead.

Sadly, before the meeting could take place, he decided to badger me and the other co-leader (while we were at our paid jobs) trying to insist on knowing exactly why we wanted to talk to him, what had he done wrong, etc., etc.. And upon our polite insistence that really, we wanted to talk in person, screamed at me "I resign" and hung up. Which did solve the problem, in the sense that it made meetings more manageable and improved the dynamic of the group as a whole, but it wasn't fun at the time.

The one thing I've had to make peace with in my volunteer activities, particularly those in which I have a leadership role, is that there will always be someone who disagrees with whatever decision you make.

And there will always be those who, for whatever reason, won't or can't take on such a role for themselves, but who seem to take delight in criticizing or carping about those who do take on these tasks. It's best to acknowledge their existence, to sometimes review the arguments of those who disagree with you, as sometimes they may actually have a point, but to try not to take any of it personally (as difficult as that is, sometimes).

So yes, I agree with those saying that you need to have a firm conversation with Luke, and to be willing to take action to deal with his behavior, which is WAY out of line. It may or may not go well, but at least you will have made the attempt to be very clear with him about expectations and appropriate behavior, and that gives you the opportunity to take further action later if you need to.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 13, 2014, 05:57:24 PM
I have to agree,  either be a leader or step down.  The only reason you need to have a team meeting is to TELL people how things are going to be.  There is no need to solicit opinions. 
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 13, 2014, 06:02:11 PM
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: TootsNYC on January 13, 2014, 06:15:27 PM
I am so not surprised by your update. I applaud you! You are very wise--knowing ourselves, determining what it is that we really want, can be a very hard thing to do.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people continue to bang their heads against the wall, thinking that they have to solve the problem, win the fight, without realizing that they *can* "retire from the field." All the while suffering. I've personally done it three times that I can point to. One of them nearly killed me.

It isn't "quitting"--it's realigning your priorities.

Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Deetee on January 13, 2014, 06:40:57 PM
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P

As much as I would like to hear that Luke got his commuppance, I agree with TootsNYC. There is a strength in knowing what you want, what you are good at and what you enjoy.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: AngelicGamer on January 13, 2014, 07:42:40 PM
OP, I agree with everyone else in the way that you're deciding to go.  The only thing that I would do is give your co-captain a heads up so he's not blindsided.  And who knows - he might want to step up and be the full captain on his own.
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 13, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
I thought about this quite a bit over the weekend.  When I took over as captain two years ago, it was with the understanding that the team was just a bunch of adults playing a sport we love, and my job was just to keep everyone updated on the schedule, to communicate with the venue, nag people to pay their fees (okay, not much nagging was involved :) ), and line up subs as needed.  Had I known I'd be dealing with drama like this, I would have never accepted it.  It's supposed to be fun, and a nice diversion from a job that sometimes drives me insane. 

So, no matter how things work out, I will step down as captain.  I love to play.  I really like most of my teammates.  I just don't have the time and energy to deal with the extra drama.  And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life.  In my fun one hour a week of recreation, I shouldn't have to.  I think James would be happy to step up as captain, and probably has the temperament to deal with it more than I do. 

Thanks for all the help - I mean that sincerely.  This is just one of those things that I'm looking at and realizing that it really isn't worth the stress and aggravation that I've had to devote to it.  That's what my job is for.  :P

Good luck OP. It sounds like the best outcome would be if James stepped up and became captain.

And I hope that Luke doesn't become captain, or co-captain, because it sounds like he'd just give the stronger players (like himself) the most playtime, and make the weaker platers sit on the bench for most of the game!
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: English1 on January 20, 2014, 11:51:44 AM
I think you'll be a lot happier now OP, and enjoy the sport again.

"And maybe it is "quitting", but it's also one of those things where I have to deal with it in other areas of my life." It's not quitting. It's not giving up. It's standing down from a voluntary role you've done for a couple of years, as you can no longer give it the time/energy it needs, and it is impacting on your life too much. You want to go back to a player-only role. Fair enough. Good for you for doing it at all. No one expected you to sign up for life  ;D
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am. FINAL UPDATE: Post 76
Post by: AzaleaBloom on January 26, 2014, 08:49:33 PM
So, the final update to all of this:

The pre-game meeting before the final game of the past session went surprisingly well.  Everything was laid in front of Luke - as well as everyone else - about why we were there to play and what we wanted to accomplish.  The game that followed was probably the most fun we have had playing in months.  We didn't win, but we played well, and we had fun. 

James agreed to take over as captain.  I will just be there as a player, although I will fill in when he's away.  Which isn't a problem at all!  :)

It all worked out really well, and I'm excited about next season!   ;D
Title: Re: You are not the captain of this team - I am.
Post by: Margo on January 28, 2014, 07:54:55 AM
Glad it worked out well. I hope that Luke will take on board what was said and will not give James a rough ride.