Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => All In A Day's Work => Topic started by: OSUJillyBean on January 13, 2014, 03:49:40 PM

Title: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 13, 2014, 03:49:40 PM
Months ago, I mentioned to my boss that DH wanted to take me on a vacation to very-cool-destination.  I put in a formal request for the time-off and heard nothing for several weeks.  Some coworkers mentioned this is how it's done at our company and you'd only hear something if it was refused.  At a meeting last week, my boss's boss announced to everyone that all time-off requests were approved at this point but going forward there might be more restrictions on who could take time off and when.  That's fine by me.

DH buys the tickets, reserves the hotel room, etc. for our trip.  We have friends scheduled to meet us halfway through the trip.  Everything is going great.

Just now my boss called me into her office and told me that she couldn't approve my time off because I haven't yet accumulated the PTO hours (old policy was a lump sum of hours given to employees at the start of the year.  New policy is you have to accumulate it every year).  Our corporate policy is that you can in fact take time-off before you've accumulated it with the expectation that you "pay it back" by continuing to work.  If you leave the company, you have to pay them back the difference.

I really think she just didn't bother to look at my request until now, which is way too late to rebook the vacation (and our friends' vacation).  Am I right to think this is just unprofessional?  I am livid myself but won't react or say a word to my boss, not yet.
Title: Re: Boss Approves Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind
Post by: katycoo on January 13, 2014, 03:57:55 PM
I think you can ask for a special exception.  Point out that you submitted the form in XX, and at the meeting you were told it was approved and acting on that bookings nad deposits have been paid.

Hopefully they'll understand.
Title: Re: Boss Approves Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind
Post by: Mikayla on January 13, 2014, 04:01:47 PM
It seems like the big boss's statement at the meeting overrides her refusal, unless there's any chance you misunderstood it.  For example, could he have said that all approved time off requests would stand?  If so, since yours was never approved, it might fall into a gray area.  (I realize there's some confusion on their approval process, but I'm not sure you can assume it was approved if this wasn't confirmed somehow).

But if you're sure he worded it that way, I'd tell her this and that you made your plans based on it.

Title: Re: Boss Approves Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 13, 2014, 04:28:45 PM
I'd be livid too.

I'd tell your boss that based on her previous statement that all time off submitted had been approved and that your request was submitted prior to the new policy, you'd like her to use the company policy of borrowing time again future PT. And let her know you've already made non-refundable reservations.

Honestly, she doesn't sound very professional so I wonder if she is even aware the company policy allows for borrowing time. Maybe talk with HR first to clarify.
Title: Re: Boss Approves Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 13, 2014, 04:40:59 PM
I've got a lot of issues with this job but denying PTO even after approving it seems to be standard operating procedure around here.  They threatened to do it at Christmas 2013 but didn't follow through and a LOT of people were gone, creating chaos for those who remained. 

My boss is not the most professional person (she physically struck another coworker during a temper-tantrum a few months back) but she did tell me the decision comes from her boss (who is usually professional).  And the caveat to our "take-PTO-before-you've-earned-it" policy is that of course you have to get your boss/supervisor's approval. 

DH has been bugging me for months to find a new job.  This is just the last nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: cheyne on January 13, 2014, 05:11:30 PM
I would go to boss once more and tell her that the vacation is planned and paid for and you must have the promised time off.  If she says "No", give your notice.  Your DH is backing you and I can't say I disagree with him.

*I work in a rough-and-tumble industry with 98% men.  I have heard the filthiest language imaginable come from these guys, hand gestures that make me blush, and screaming at the top of their lungs.  However, in 17 years I have never seen anyone hit another co-worker (or customer).  The fact that your boss did that and still has a job is beyond the pale.*
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: doodlemor on January 13, 2014, 05:32:16 PM
I would go to boss once more and tell her that the vacation is planned and paid for and you must have the promised time off.  If she says "No", give your notice.  Your DH is backing you and I can't say I disagree with him.

*I work in a rough-and-tumble industry with 98% men.  I have heard the filthiest language imaginable come from these guys, hand gestures that make me blush, and screaming at the top of their lungs.  However, in 17 years I have never seen anyone hit another co-worker (or customer).  The fact that your boss did that and still has a job is beyond the pale.*

Eminently sensible advice.  I agree with every word of this.

Your coworker should have filed charges for assault.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: TinyVulgarUnicorn on January 13, 2014, 05:52:18 PM
As someone who worked for a violent boss get out now.  It only gets worse.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Zizi-K on January 13, 2014, 06:38:27 PM
I'm curious why you didn't point out the big boss's statement from the meeting, that everyone's request was granted, so you went ahead and booked non-refundable tickets. Throw the ball back in her court. I mean, it's not like you can cancel the trip, and there was a policy in place that would allow you to take the time off. Why not just have a calm conversation about it?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 13, 2014, 08:56:49 PM
I would go to boss once more and tell her that the vacation is planned and paid for and you must have the promised time off.  If she says "No", give your notice.  Your DH is backing you and I can't say I disagree with him.

*I work in a rough-and-tumble industry with 98% men.  I have heard the filthiest language imaginable come from these guys, hand gestures that make me blush, and screaming at the top of their lungs.  However, in 17 years I have never seen anyone hit another co-worker (or customer).  The fact that your boss did that and still has a job is beyond the pale.*

I agree. And I've also worked in pretty volatile environments and in 20 years never even heard of a physical confrontation.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: checkitnice on January 13, 2014, 09:14:55 PM
I agree that a calm conversation would be the way to start.  It sounds like the policy is flexible enough (or should be) that they can accommodate your situation.  And yeah, if they won't, put in your notice.  Or don't.  I don't know that I would want to put in notice with a boss who becomes physically violent!  I'd be afraid of serious retaliation.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: veronaz on January 13, 2014, 09:29:02 PM
Quote
My boss is not the most professional person (she physically struck another coworker during a temper-tantrum a few months back)

Outrageous.  She should be in jail - not sitting in an office making vacation decisions.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: doodlemor on January 13, 2014, 10:16:19 PM
Quote
My boss is not the most professional person (she physically struck another coworker during a temper-tantrum a few months back)

Outrageous.  She should be in jail - not sitting in an office making vacation decisions.

Maybe for a first offense [that we know about] she would get community service. 

When you confront her, OP, picture her in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash along the road.  Maybe it will lighten your spirits a bit.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: veronaz on January 13, 2014, 10:20:39 PM
I hear orange is the new black...........
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: cicero on January 13, 2014, 11:44:15 PM
I would go to boss once more and tell her that the vacation is planned and paid for and you must have the promised time off.  If she says "No", give your notice.  Your DH is backing you and I can't say I disagree with him.

*I work in a rough-and-tumble industry with 98% men.  I have heard the filthiest language imaginable come from these guys, hand gestures that make me blush, and screaming at the top of their lungs.  However, in 17 years I have never seen anyone hit another co-worker (or customer).  The fact that your boss did that and still has a job is beyond the pale.*
100% this.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: YummyMummy66 on January 14, 2014, 07:17:04 AM
I would go in as other's suggested and explain the situation.  You asked about this time off well in advance.  There was a meeting where such and such was stated.  You booked your arrangements upon this information.   

At this time, you cannot change your travel arrangements due to financially losing funds. 

Will the time off be approved or will this count against you? 

As others stated, be prepared to hand in your resgination.  But, I would also be prepared to leave at the end of that day or after talking with said boss.   If this boss is as you describe, I can only imagine what will happen when you do give notice.

And honestly, if this company is like that, if the job market was good, I would probably not say a word, but the Friday before my vacay, pack up my desk at quitting time and let my resignation letter on my boss' desk.  That is what I would do in my head, not so much in real life. 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Steve on January 14, 2014, 07:46:04 AM
If your boss has stated the descision came from her boss, go talk to him and not to her. You are your own best advocate, I would not want this woman speaking on my behalf.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: SamiHami on January 14, 2014, 08:27:48 AM
What kind of boss waits several weeks to respond to vacation requests? And hits employees?  :o  Her butt would be in jail and I'd be suing the company, especially considering she's done it before and she's still employed.

I agree with the others. Take your vacation regardless of what she says. If she is unwilling to change her mind about it, then quit, since you apparently are able to do so.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MissRose on January 14, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
I am glad my work place gives us our allocations at the beginning of the new year for sick and vacation/holidays.  We are allowed before a new schedules starts if you know you need a day off or so, to request it.  I know not all places are good with granting time off for people or backing out on a promised request.

I've never had issues requesting time off for vacation especially for travel internationally or a concert I wish to attend as it is well known with the boss that I do travel some for pleasure.  He has said if the schedule people give me a hard time, to say something and he has the power to override them. 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Figgie on January 14, 2014, 11:18:02 AM
My spouse's job makes vacation planning difficult.  He will get the time approved and then a crisis project happens and I end up having to cancel it and try to reschedule. 

Which is one of the reasons we always purchase trip cancellation insurance (in a travel insurance package).  We've had to use it time and time again and it has made it possible for us to plan trips, knowing that if it has to be canceled for work, it won't cost us very much.

Hope you can get things straightened out and go on your trip!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: veronaz on January 14, 2014, 11:31:48 AM
What kind of boss waits several weeks to respond to vacation requests? And hits employees?  :o  Her butt would be in jail and I'd be suing the company, especially considering she's done it before and she's still employed.

[snip]
.

Word.

A relative’s (former) boss was fired for physically trying to block relative from walking out of her office.  But hitting an employee or anyone at the workplace is not only cause for immediate termination, but also assault (prosecution).
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 14, 2014, 11:47:02 AM
In addition to the temper-tantrum story - the victim was boss's subordinate and remains her subordinate for more than two months after the incident!


Back on-topic:

I went and spoke with Professional Boss (my boss's boss) today about a work-related matter.  At the end of our conversation, he asked me where I was going on my trip.  I was surprised, as I assumed he'd been the one to deny my request.  I informed him: small tropical island in the Indian Ocean.  He told me "Oh I'm jealous!  Have fun!"  I thought about it for awhile at my desk but couldn't make the two stories match up.

So a few minutes ago I sent Professional Boss an instant message asking about the seeming discrepancy.  He then called Temper-Tantrum Boss (she never closes her door and her voice carries) and I could hear them discussing it.  Then he sent me a quick message:  "I was unable to approve your time off."

I asked him what he would like me to do but never heard another word.

Next I get to write my very first letter of resignation!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 14, 2014, 11:50:25 AM
Next I get to write my very first letter of resignation!

Dear Bosses,

I quit. You two need couple's counseling.

Peace out,

JillyBean
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Jones on January 14, 2014, 12:01:32 PM
I love Glitter's letter. Have fun on your trip!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: cicero on January 14, 2014, 12:31:25 PM
Next I get to write my very first letter of resignation!

Dear Bosses,

I quit. You two need couple's counseling.

Peace out,

JillyBean
Word.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 14, 2014, 12:41:34 PM
Friday the 24th will be two weeks before my vacation start so I suppose I'll give my notice then.  And I get two "floating holidays" and my husband thinks I should use them my last two days with this company.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 14, 2014, 12:42:38 PM
Wow. Truly amazing. And QUITE unprofessional. Sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, OR your boss has some reason she told HER boss, as to why you shouldn't be allowed to go.

In any event, I'm glad you're able to leave, and take your trip!

And am very glad my company a. gives you all your PTO up front, as of Jan 1, including the extra week you get when you reach certain years of service, and b. are pretty laid-back about things like that.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Two Ravens on January 14, 2014, 12:43:47 PM
Friday the 24th will be two weeks before my vacation start so I suppose I'll give my notice then.  And I get two "floating holidays" and my husband thinks I should use them my last two days with this company.  Thoughts?

Just be prepared for the possibility that when they receive your letter of resignation, they may ask you to leave that day. It would not make them look good to have to around for two weeks explaining to everyone why you resigned.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 14, 2014, 12:43:58 PM
Friday the 24th will be two weeks before my vacation start so I suppose I'll give my notice then.  And I get two "floating holidays" and my husband thinks I should use them my last two days with this company.  Thoughts?

Unless you need them as a reference, or burning bridges isn't an issue, if it were me, I'd resign, and let them know my last day is Wed, of x week, adn thu and friday will be floaters.  But that's just me.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: bopper on January 14, 2014, 12:50:05 PM
Alternately you say:   "Since I requested time off and did not hear from you for 5 weeks that my request was denied, I booked the travel.   So if you need me to work, then I will need my travel expenses reimbursed as you did not get back to me in a timely fashion."

Then perhaps tell one of your best buds at work that your DH is fine with you quitting to go on this trip so you are seriously thinking of that as an option and maybe that will get back to boss and they can change their mind without a loss of face.  And if they don't care if you stay there, then it really is time to go.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: wolfie on January 14, 2014, 01:02:15 PM
How badly do you need a job? In this economy you could be out of work for a long time. It is easier to find a job when you have a job. If you can go 2 - 3 months without a job but no more then that then i wouldn't quit over it - but I would send out resumes. If you can go indefinitely then go ahead and quit - but be aware that it is likely you will be out of work for 10 - 12 months.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: veronaz on January 14, 2014, 01:07:42 PM
Quote
Sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, OR your boss has some reason she told HER boss, as to why you shouldn't be allowed to go.

Obviously Temper Tantrum boss has some real power if she is allowed to get away with physically assaulting an employee.  This is an unsafe work atmosphere, imo.

Quote
Then perhaps tell one of your best buds at work that your DH is fine with you quitting to go on this trip so you are seriously thinking of that as an option and maybe that will get back to boss and they can change their mind without a loss of face.

I would not tell a "best bud" or anyone else.  People know what side their bread is buttered on.  This will just stir the pot, and they (bosses) don't care about "saving face"......it's obvious from the history.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Pioneer on January 14, 2014, 01:14:19 PM
Next I get to write my very first letter of resignation!

Dear Bosses,

I quit. You two need couple's counseling.

Peace out,

JillyBean

Glitter always says something to make me giggle! 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 14, 2014, 01:22:35 PM
Next I get to write my very first letter of resignation!

Dear Bosses,

I quit. You two need couple's counseling.

Peace out,

JillyBean

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Oh I'd love to give them that!!  (I will give them something professional and appropriate when the time comes in case a future employer calls them for a reference).
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: JenJay on January 14, 2014, 01:24:56 PM
Unbelievable.  :-\

Here's hoping you have a fantastic vacation and then come home and land your dream job!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: cheyne on January 14, 2014, 02:55:40 PM
Good for you on getting out of there, OSUJillyBean.  I've worked some crap jobs in my life (literally, cleaning toilets etc...) but I've never had to work for a lunatic that hits employees.

Enjoy your trip!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 14, 2014, 02:57:16 PM
Friday the 24th will be two weeks before my vacation start so I suppose I'll give my notice then.  And I get two "floating holidays" and my husband thinks I should use them my last two days with this company.  Thoughts?

I'm really sorry this is coming around like this but sometimes being out of work is the best way to motivate yourself to getting a new job.

I wouldn't use the 2 days as holidays, instead I'd use the money they'll have to cash out for you to have a really special dinner on your vacation. Or stock it away to go have a special treat when you might be feeling down or a little blue if job hunting takes longer than you expected.

Really happy your DH is being so supportive.

And I'd make sure I gave the resignation letter to Professional Boss. Don't worry about burning your bridges with crappy boss as I doubt she has the ability to give a decent reference.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Jones on January 14, 2014, 03:17:18 PM
Some places do not cash out unused time off; my previous place of employment did not, though my current does. If yours does, Jilly, that is the option I would take too.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: TootsNYC on January 14, 2014, 03:32:51 PM
Is it that that need your hands in the office for workload?

Or is it just that you don't have the days off accrued?

If it's the second one, maybe you could suggest some of those days be unpaid, given that they were so unclear with you.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 14, 2014, 04:12:34 PM
We switched to accrued vacation and accrued sick leave (which is stupid imho) on Jan 1st 2014.  So I started the year with no leave of any kind except my two floating holidays.  We are not allowed to take unpaid leave (according to Professional Boss).  We CAN take time-off before we've technically accrued it, so long as we continue to work for the company afterwards to "pay that back", as it were.  Or you leave anyways and then you have to pay the money back out of your paycheck or out of your pocket.  That's a new company policy but my bosses don't seem to want to let me invoke it.   

I accrue vacation time at 1.25 days/month.  So does everyone else.  This means everyone will be eligible to take their vacation time towards the end of the year.  But of course not everyone is allowed to be gone at the same time so I'm not sure what will happen.

Unused sick days and floating holidays are NOT paid out at the end of the year, or when an employee leaves. 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Deetee on January 14, 2014, 04:15:59 PM
We switched to accrued vacation and accrued sick leave (which is stupid imho) on Jan 1st 2014.  So I started the year with no leave of any kind except my two floating holidays.  We are not allowed to take unpaid leave (according to Professional Boss).  We CAN take time-off before we've technically accrued it, so long as we continue to work for the company afterwards to "pay that back", as it were.  Or you leave anyways and then you have to pay the money back out of your paycheck or out of your pocket.  That's a new company policy but my bosses don't seem to want to let me invoke it.   

I accrue vacation time at 1.25 days/month.  So does everyone else.  This means everyone will be eligible to take their vacation time towards the end of the year.  But of course not everyone is allowed to be gone at the same time so I'm not sure what will happen.

Unused sick days and floating holidays are NOT paid out at the end of the year, or when an employee leaves.

Does your accrued holiday time go over to next year? Or will this be an issue every year where no-one can take holiday time until half way through the year.

Let us know what happens when you resign!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 14, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
You can keep 40 hours of vacation time from one year to the next if you haven't used it.  And those who've been here longer get something like 1.75 days/month accrued. 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: mimi_cat on January 14, 2014, 04:40:11 PM
Oh wow.  The smart way to handle it would have been to give people a year's notice, so if anyone wanted to bank vacation time they could plan that out. 

But yes - you are going to have a large # of people taking vacations all at once towards the end of the year.

If you can afford to be w/o work and think that you can find another job, then quitting does sound like your best option.  I'd also lay this out to whoever does your exit interview.  This is a crazy reason to lose an employee ever.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Ceallach on January 14, 2014, 04:42:09 PM
We work on accrued leave time here (it's legislative in Australia anyway).  But even so, we do let people take a bit in advance or even without pay if they are an employee in good standing.

I just can't imagine any company ever thinking a person was just going to skip their already booked vacation because of work?  What kind of power trip are they on!     I do remember a US friend of mine having a similar situation where her boss told her they needed her to stay and work at a time where her honeymoon was booked for, which had been approved ages beforehand.  She laughed and said absolutely no way, and they backed down.   She too would have quit if they'd pushed it.   I wonder if it's because holidays aren't a legal thing over there but often an employee benefit bestowed by the company, so there isn't that same expectation of people being able to use it, more of a "we giveth and we taketh away" type mindset by bosses.   (We do have some discretion here, for example we can insist people take it during quiet periods or if they accrue too much, but it's fairly rare to decline a request! I've never in my whole career had a vacation request declined, and I use all of my leave each year).   And re waiting for approval, usually we do the opposite here.   I'll say to my boss "I'm thinking of taking X amount of time off in X month for X reason, will that be ok?"  they say yes, I book flights etc, and then I submit the formal request knowing it will be approved.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: fountainof on January 14, 2014, 04:45:17 PM
I would be prepared with my answer should they decide to approve the vacation once you provide the resignation letter, things like that happen all the time, especially if they are short handed.

The economy comments really depend what you do and where you live as the economy is strong in my area and many firms have a hard time getting suitable candidates so I don't think it is a guaranteed 10-12 months unemployed.  I am not saying everyone who seeks employment here finds it as there are some unemployable people based on skills, personality, etc. but unemployment is low overall.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: CreteGirl on January 14, 2014, 05:03:33 PM
I would be prepared with my answer should they decide to approve the vacation once you provide the resignation letter, things like that happen all the time, especially if they are short handed.


I think there is a good possibility of this happening.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: kckgirl on January 14, 2014, 05:09:51 PM
Friday the 24th will be two weeks before my vacation start so I suppose I'll give my notice then.  And I get two "floating holidays" and my husband thinks I should use them my last two days with this company.  Thoughts?

Could you make your notice effective at the end of the second week after you leave and hand it in as you walk out the door on your last day? I'd take the floating holidays the week before the vacation to make sure you get paid for them. Also, if you're leaving on February 7, shouldn't you get paid for the first 1.25 days you're off since you earned it in January?

I don't think making employees accrue leave before they take it is a bad thing, but if they change a policy, they need to give you enough notice so that you can make plans. Did they?

We used to do advanced leave, but I had an employee who used up all advanced time at the beginning of a year, then throughout the year ended up needing to take other time off, all for a family member's illness. The employee ended up using so much unpaid time that the hours advanced at the beginning of the year were more than what was earned (a full pay period of unpaid time earns no leave) and we had to deduct the hours taken but not accrued from the employee's paycheck.

Now, everybody uses accrued leave only. I made an exception last year because I had a new employee who already had a family vacation scheduled before she was hired. She had earned more than half of what she needed and is a very good employee, so I advanced the time off needed and she earned it back. Sometimes it just depends on the circumstances.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: jedikaiti on January 14, 2014, 05:31:55 PM
I would be prepared with my answer should they decide to approve the vacation once you provide the resignation letter, things like that happen all the time, especially if they are short handed.

I think there is a good possibility of this happening.

That is a very good point. If you hand in your resignation and they offer to approve the vacation, will you stay?

Also, do you need prior approval to use your floating holidays? Or can you just tell them in your resignation letter that you will be taking those on X and Y days?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: GreenBird on January 14, 2014, 06:40:05 PM
If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BabyMama on January 14, 2014, 07:13:09 PM
They switched to accrual but didn't have people start with any PTO?? That's ridiculous! My work switched a few years ago but gave everyone their lump sum and allowed people to start accruing. You couldn't use that accrued time until the next calendar year, but you started with the amount you were accustomed to getting AND began earning it back right away.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: sammycat on January 14, 2014, 08:04:40 PM
If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.

Very good advice.

How does Crazy Boss still have a job after hitting someone? And why did so-called Professional Boss kowtow to Crazy Boss' refusal to give you the time off? S/he doesn't sound all that professional to me if (A) they didn't fire CB after the assault and (B) they gave into CB's tantrum re. your time off and has now lost a good employee over it. It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog here.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 14, 2014, 08:16:04 PM
They switched to accrual but didn't have people start with any PTO?? That's ridiculous! My work switched a few years ago but gave everyone their lump sum and allowed people to start accruing. You couldn't use that accrued time until the next calendar year, but you started with the amount you were accustomed to getting AND began earning it back right away.

Exactly. When they introduced the new policy, the OP's company should have allowed employees to roll over their unused leave. Or cashed it out. Instead it sounds like they just forced everyone to start over with 0 hours leave. That's pretty dodgy, to me.

If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.

Very good advice.

How does Crazy Boss still have a job after hitting someone? And why did so-called Professional Boss kowtow to Crazy Boss' refusal to give you the time off? S/he doesn't sound all that professional to me if (A) they didn't fire CB after the assault and (B) they gave into CB's tantrum re. your time off and has now lost a good employee over it. It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog here.

I agree. Professional Boss sounds gutless!

OP, as a last report, could you send an email to Professional Boss, itemising exactly how much this holiday is costing you, and the amount of money you stand to lose if you can't take this vacation?

Also, forward him a copy of the leave request you sent Crazy Boss and point out that you sent it months ago.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: doodlemor on January 14, 2014, 09:03:17 PM
If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.

Wise words.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Danika on January 14, 2014, 10:18:33 PM
If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.

Wise words.

POD

Congrats on getting out of that environment.

I had a roughly similiar situation happen to me years ago. We had PTO and I was going to take a 3 week vacation overseas. In January, I emailed my boss and requested the specific dates for August/September. He replied and approved. DH and  I booked the hotels, the airfare, the rental car, etc.

In July, that boss was laid off and I got a new "temporary manager." In August, I mentioned to her that I'd be gone at the end of August for 3 weeks and she laid into me that it was unprofessional that I was going to take a last minute vacation and didn't get approval or tell anyone, etc. She was awful to work for for many other reasons as well.

I had saved all the emails from the previous boss approving my time off. It wasn't my fault that the company did a lousy job of communicating and listing vacation dates. I forwarded the emails to her so she begrudgingly let me go on the trip.

But the whole time I was gone, I was planning my exit strategy. I couldn't stand my new boss or the company. I stuck it out for 6 more months until I had a new job offer and I quit this old job.

I'm glad you're in a position where you can tell them to get lost. I look forward to the update!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MrTango on January 14, 2014, 10:28:24 PM
I would be prepared with my answer should they decide to approve the vacation once you provide the resignation letter, things like that happen all the time, especially if they are short handed.


I think there is a good possibility of this happening.

This does happen.  That way, they can find the OP's replacement and then let her go when the timing works better for them.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: blarg314 on January 15, 2014, 12:56:44 AM
They switched to accrual but didn't have people start with any PTO?? That's ridiculous! My work switched a few years ago but gave everyone their lump sum and allowed people to start accruing. You couldn't use that accrued time until the next calendar year, but you started with the amount you were accustomed to getting AND began earning it back right away.

Exactly. When they introduced the new policy, the OP's company should have allowed employees to roll over their unused leave. Or cashed it out. Instead it sounds like they just forced everyone to start over with 0 hours leave. That's pretty dodgy, to me.


Yeah - if they are switching systems, they should have given anyone who has been employed for at least a year a starting lump sum of days carried over, and then. As it is, under the new system no-one will take holidays for the first few months, and everyone will try to take it at the end, because they didn't have it earlier.

But if you're working in a place where your head boss can be over-ruled by your immediate supervisor on matters that he though were completely settled (costing you a lot of money), and you immediate supervisor has actually *hit* an underling and not been penalized for it.... That's a case where you need to find new employment, before you're the one getting beaten on.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 15, 2014, 08:43:31 AM
They switched to accrual but didn't have people start with any PTO?? That's ridiculous! My work switched a few years ago but gave everyone their lump sum and allowed people to start accruing. You couldn't use that accrued time until the next calendar year, but you started with the amount you were accustomed to getting AND began earning it back right away.

Exactly. When they introduced the new policy, the OP's company should have allowed employees to roll over their unused leave. Or cashed it out. Instead it sounds like they just forced everyone to start over with 0 hours leave. That's pretty dodgy, to me.

If you're sure you're quitting, I'd consider going ahead and using the floaters as soon as possible because I can see your boss escorting you from the building the instant you give notice, and then refusing to pay you for the floaters since you weren't at work.  It would be inappropriate for your boss to do that, but I think it's clear that "appropriate" isn't really on your boss's radar screen.

Very good advice.

How does Crazy Boss still have a job after hitting someone? And why did so-called Professional Boss kowtow to Crazy Boss' refusal to give you the time off? S/he doesn't sound all that professional to me if (A) they didn't fire CB after the assault and (B) they gave into CB's tantrum re. your time off and has now lost a good employee over it. It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog here.

I agree. Professional Boss sounds gutless!

OP, as a last report, could you send an email to Professional Boss, itemising exactly how much this holiday is costing you, and the amount of money you stand to lose if you can't take this vacation?

Also, forward him a copy of the leave request you sent Crazy Boss and point out that you sent it months ago.

Not everyone has 0 hours of PTO.  You were allowed to roll over 40 hours if you had it saved up.  My problem is I was hired last year in January and as a new-hire only earned half the normal PTO allotment (given as a lump sum of 60 hours in July.  Any time-off before that was taken unpaid).  That was gone by Christmas thanks to the flu and being sick three or four times on top of that.  I was banking on receiving a full year (120 hours) of PTO on January 1st.  The policy switch was announced last fall, but we were told we could still schedule our time-off as usual but we'd have to pay it back.


If they offer to approve my vacation time when I had in my resignation, I will decline.  This is no longer a good employment option for me.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 15, 2014, 09:40:40 AM
 
Not everyone has 0 hours of PTO.  You were allowed to roll over 40 hours if you had it saved up.  My problem is I was hired last year and as a new-hire only earned half the normal PTO allotment (given as a lump sum of 60 hours in July).  That was gone by Christmas thanks to the flu and being sick three or four times on top of that.  I was banking on receiving a full year (120 hours) of PTO on January 1st.  The policy switch was announced last fall, but we were told we could still schedule our time-off as usual but we'd have to pay it back.


If they offer to approve my vacation time when I had in my resignation, I will decline.  This is no longer a good employment option for me.

I don't blame you, and unfortunately, beacuse you started mid-year, you sort of fell between the cracks.

I would probably do the same thing, since even if they do change their mind, and "allow" you to take your trip, its still not a good environment.

Its like when you interview for a job, and you have a trip planned. Most people will let a new employer know, and most employers, I think, are generally ok with it. I always say, if they aren't, then you might want to think twice about working there, since who knows how they'd be with other issues.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Petticoats on January 15, 2014, 03:45:37 PM
Is Crazy Boss blackmailing Professional Boss? Otherwise I can't understand how CB is still employed there after hitting someone--and was able to make PB do a 180 on approving the vacation.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: veronaz on January 15, 2014, 04:12:58 PM
^^^ yeah, something fishy is going on. ::)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Bethalize on January 15, 2014, 04:22:11 PM
Oh, dear! If this isn't a proper case of bullying I don't know what is. Sounds like Crazy Boss is all about the power.

With any bully if you stand up to them, they usually crumble. If not, you're better off out of it anyway. Good luck!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: LifeOnPluto on January 15, 2014, 08:22:06 PM
Is Crazy Boss blackmailing Professional Boss? Otherwise I can't understand how CB is still employed there after hitting someone--and was able to make PB do a 180 on approving the vacation.

Exactly. I'm amazed that the "underling" who was assaulted never pressed charges. I'm even more amazed that there were no repercussions whatsoever (from the company) for Crazy Boss.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: lowspark on January 16, 2014, 11:36:04 AM
I, too, am shocked by the fact that anyone could get away with physically striking a person in the workplace!

But mainly I'm posting for updates. I hope you'll come back and tell us what happens when you hand in your notice.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on January 16, 2014, 12:06:38 PM
I was once temping in a small office, I was only to be there for about 8 weeks to cover someone on maternity leave, and one day these two employees are arguing over something. They'd never gotten along. Anyways one employee hauls off and slugs the other one.

The employee who sat closest to me said right away "Glitter, call the police, Other Co-worker, get the first aid kit", the boss wasn't in yet (running late of all days) but when he got in the cops were already there arresting the the slugger, who was fired immediately. I remember him howling about "First I get arrested and now I'm fired! This is the worst day!!", well don't go around punching people!

So, I can't fathom how a boss can assault someone and keep her job. If I'd been there I would've been on the phone to the police. Because someone has apparently lost what little sense they were given.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Danika on January 16, 2014, 12:26:00 PM
I agree. There are definitely some weird things going on if that boss is still employed there. And it's best to get out of that environment completely.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Sara Crewe on January 16, 2014, 02:18:51 PM


With any bully if you stand up to them, they usually crumble. If not, you're better off anyway. Good luck!

I don't necessarily agree with this.  Teachers have been telling kids this for years as a cop out for not doing anything to help the victim but I'd be interested to see any studies one way or the other.

In my experience (workplace bully) standing up to her got you seen as a threat (rather than intermittent bullying as a form of entertainment) and she'd viciously target that person until they quit.

I'd just ended up her latest victim (about 3 months in) when she had a series of family disasters and first went off on long term leave and then just never came back.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Bethalize on January 16, 2014, 04:22:07 PM


With any bully if you stand up to them, they usually crumble. If not, you're better off anyway. Good luck!

I don't necessarily agree with this.  Teachers have been telling kids this for years as a cop out for not doing anything to help the victim but I'd be interested to see any studies one way or the other.

In my experience (workplace bully) standing up to her got you seen as a threat (rather than intermittent bullying as a form of entertainment) and she'd viciously target that person until they quit.


What thought I had written was "or you're better off out of it". I've updated my original post. Thank you for picking that up.

Identify your bully type from www.bullyonline.org. Good advice on handling them. Sometimes the only way to survive is to get out.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 16, 2014, 04:43:30 PM
No major updates to report today: Tempter-Tantrum-Boss is out sick but Professional-Boss is here.

I did get approval from PB to take a half-day tomorrow using one of my precious "floating holidays" so I can go to a Doctor's Appt.  What he doesn't know is that appointment is with the health department to get my vaccines so I can travel through Africa for our vacation.  (9 hours in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia). ;D

(Maybe I should feel guilty for the deception?  I don't really, but maybe I should?)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 16, 2014, 04:56:11 PM
No major updates to report today: Tempter-Tantrum-Boss is out sick but Professional-Boss is here.

I did get approval from PB to take a half-day tomorrow using one of my precious "floating holidays" so I can go to a Doctor's Appt.  What he doesn't know is that appointment is with the health department to get my vaccines so I can travel through Africa for our vacation.   ;D

(Maybe I should feel guilty for the deception?  I don't really, but maybe I should?)

Your going for a medical need so you didn't even stretch the truth. Glad you aren't letting them take this opportunity away from you. I'm really angry on your behalf.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Danika on January 16, 2014, 06:17:40 PM
No major updates to report today: Tempter-Tantrum-Boss is out sick but Professional-Boss is here.

I did get approval from PB to take a half-day tomorrow using one of my precious "floating holidays" so I can go to a Doctor's Appt.  What he doesn't know is that appointment is with the health department to get my vaccines so I can travel through Africa for our vacation.  (9 hours in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia). ;D

(Maybe I should feel guilty for the deception?  I don't really, but maybe I should?)

On the contrary. You should pat yourself on the back for your wisdom.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 16, 2014, 07:33:41 PM
No guilt vibes here! ;)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MrTango on January 16, 2014, 08:09:27 PM
No major updates to report today: Tempter-Tantrum-Boss is out sick but Professional-Boss is here.

I did get approval from PB to take a half-day tomorrow using one of my precious "floating holidays" so I can go to a Doctor's Appt.  What he doesn't know is that appointment is with the health department to get my vaccines so I can travel through Africa for our vacation.  (9 hours in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia). ;D

(Maybe I should feel guilty for the deception?  I don't really, but maybe I should?)

Don't feel guilty.  You told them that it was for a doctor's appointment, which is completely true.  Any detail beyond that is none of their business.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: bopper on January 17, 2014, 09:42:54 AM
Why do you have to take your own personal time for medical appointments or the flu?

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Arila on January 17, 2014, 10:47:12 AM
Why do you have to take your own personal time for medical appointments or the flu?
Some companies give all paid time off (PTO) in one pool. Other companies have different pools for vacation, "floating" holidays and paid absence. I've had both experiences.

I'll actually start with the second. Vacation is set by the employee, and scheduled/approved well in advance. "Floating" holidays are sometimes designated by the department, sometimes given to employees to schedule like vacation. (Ex. Engineering schedules floating holidays for 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and the last week of December. Manufacturing is an every day sort of thing and they can't have everyone gone for whole weeks at a time, especially when the end of the year is crunch-time, so Manufacturing lets employees set floating holidays like vacation. Everyone gets equal scheduled time off. Paid absence is what you use for dr appointments, sick time, etc. It is in "theory" unlimited. However, there are policies like if you miss more than 5 days or whatever, you need a medical note, and if you rack up a certain amount, they will look into it a little more closely.


Some companies say, "Look, if we are actually going to try to limit the paid absence thing, why not just say so? And why make them categorize their absence? Either they are here working, or they aren't here and aren't working." These companies offer PTO which is all types of time off. This has its advantages, because if you schedule your appointments outside of working hours, or use flexible timing to take a long lunch and then stay late, you can actually schedule those hours to extend your vacation by quite a bit.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 17, 2014, 12:07:24 PM
I was going to say that we're required to use PTO and floating holidays for medical visits because this is America, and our benefits are way below many other first-world countries.   ;)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 17, 2014, 02:06:54 PM
I was going to say that we're required to use PTO and floating holidays for medical visits because this is America, and our benefits are way below many other first-world countries.   ;)

Yup. Although in my company, you can sometimes use a sick day for something like having a procedure where you'd be given anasthesia. I was told I should have done this (after having such a procedure, having complications and then being in the hospital and out of work for 2 weeks), because then it all counts as sick time, then STD.

My boss is also pretty flexible on that as well; a couple years ago I had a dr. appt, figured I'd be out, and then come back. Nope. my dr. ended up sending me to urgent care, where I spend the better part of the afternoon having tests, and being diagnosed with asthma, so that counted as a sick day. But everyone is different.

Good for you, and no, you don't need to feel guilty. You're at the dr., regardless of what its for.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Dorrie78 on January 17, 2014, 02:24:20 PM
I was going to say that we're required to use PTO and floating holidays for medical visits because this is America, and our benefits are way below many other first-world countries.   ;)
Well, I'm in the US and I can use any of my ample sick time for doctors appointments. I also get tons of vacation time and 3 PTO days to use as I please. Each situation is different. There is no requirement in the US that you have to use floating holidyas or PTO for medical appointments. That appears to be a requirement at your company. Which sounds like a terrible place to work, so good for your for giving your notice and moving on!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: blarg314 on January 17, 2014, 06:47:20 PM
I was going to say that we're required to use PTO and floating holidays for medical visits because this is America, and our benefits are way below many other first-world countries.   ;)
Well, I'm in the US and I can use any of my ample sick time for doctors appointments. I also get tons of vacation time and 3 PTO days to use as I please. Each situation is different. There is no requirement in the US that you have to use floating holidyas or PTO for medical appointments. That appears to be a requirement at your company. Which sounds like a terrible place to work, so good for your for giving your notice and moving on!

The issue in the US is that there aren't really any requirements at all. So if you're lucky, like I was when I worked there, you get ample sick days, vacation days, access to FMLA and  maternity/parental leave as appropriate and various other nice things.  If you're unlucky, you can get a job that has no PTO of any sort.


Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: TootsNYC on January 18, 2014, 12:28:09 AM
We switched to accrued vacation and accrued sick leave (which is stupid imho) on Jan 1st 2014.  So I started the year with no leave of any kind except my two floating holidays.  We are not allowed to take unpaid leave (according to Professional Boss).  We CAN take time-off before we've technically accrued it, so long as we continue to work for the company afterwards to "pay that back", as it were.  Or you leave anyways and then you have to pay the money back out of your paycheck or out of your pocket.  That's a new company policy but my bosses don't seem to want to let me invoke it.   

I accrue vacation time at 1.25 days/month.  So does everyone else.  This means everyone will be eligible to take their vacation time towards the end of the year.  But of course not everyone is allowed to be gone at the same time so I'm not sure what will happen.

Unused sick days and floating holidays are NOT paid out at the end of the year, or when an employee leaves.

Would it be possible to persuade them that it would be smart to let you go now, so that you aren't one of the people wanting to take a big vacay at the end of the year?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hopefull on January 18, 2014, 09:07:37 AM
Jillybean When do you plan on giving your notice?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Ceallach on January 20, 2014, 02:00:08 AM
I was going to say that we're required to use PTO and floating holidays for medical visits because this is America, and our benefits are way below many other first-world countries.   ;)
Well, I'm in the US and I can use any of my ample sick time for doctors appointments. I also get tons of vacation time and 3 PTO days to use as I please. Each situation is different. There is no requirement in the US that you have to use floating holidyas or PTO for medical appointments. That appears to be a requirement at your company. Which sounds like a terrible place to work, so good for your for giving your notice and moving on!

And on the flip side, here in Australia we do have legislated personal leave, but in most cases you can't use it for general doctors appointments etc.  Its for when you actually can't physically work (due to being sick or having to care for a sick family member), not for when you need a check up or a shot or something.   Some companies are more lenient than others but that's generally the rule.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Redsoil on January 20, 2014, 05:58:10 AM
Jillybean - are you going to visit the hospital in Addis Ababa? 

For those who'd like to know more - read "The hospital by the river" Catherine Hamlin.  She's done incredible work over many years, helping women from poor backgrounds who have obstructed births resulting in obstetric fistulae.  A true pioneer and humanitarian.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: miranova on January 20, 2014, 06:04:20 PM
Why do you have to take your own personal time for medical appointments or the flu?

I've had 3 different full time professional gigs since college and they all operated the same way:  you are given a certain number of days.  It makes absolutely no difference whether you are sick or sitting on the beach.  If you aren't at the office for the day, it counts as a day.  Period.  You don't get more time off if you tend to get sick more often or have kids who get sick or anything else.  You have your set number of days per year and if you are sick for all of them, then you don't get a vacation that year.  Yeah, benefits aren't as great at my job as some people assume they are.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MrTango on January 20, 2014, 07:48:37 PM
Why do you have to take your own personal time for medical appointments or the flu?

I've had 3 different full time professional gigs since college and they all operated the same way:  you are given a certain number of days.  It makes absolutely no difference whether you are sick or sitting on the beach.  If you aren't at the office for the day, it counts as a day.  Period.  You don't get more time off if you tend to get sick more often or have kids who get sick or anything else.  You have your set number of days per year and if you are sick for all of them, then you don't get a vacation that year.  Yeah, benefits aren't as great at my job as some people assume they are.

Yep, that's PTO.

Most companies that use PTO instead of separate Sick/Vacation time set a limit on how many "unscheduled" PTO days one can use in a given time period (my company allows 4 in a rolling 6-month period).  If I get approval from my manager at least the day before using PTO, then it's not "unscheduled" and doesn't count toward that 4-day limit.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on January 20, 2014, 07:55:18 PM
Your vacation sounds like it's going to be fantastic; Africa, I'm so envious! 

I'm rooting for you, JillyBean, good luck!  I do hope you'll tell us all what happened (Because we're nosy like that :D)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: PastryGoddess on January 20, 2014, 11:27:03 PM
Your vacation sounds like it's going to be fantastic; Africa, I'm so envious! 

I'm rooting for you, JillyBean, good luck!  I do hope you'll tell us all what happened (Because we're nosy like that :D)


ahem..I prefer the word inquisitive
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 21, 2014, 09:10:21 AM
Jillybean When do you plan on giving your notice?

In two days (the 23rd).  DH informed me our flight got switched on the 7th so instead of leaving at 6pm, we'll be headed out in the early afternoon so I can't work that day like I originally planned to.

I am very blessed with my DH.  He travels weekly for work and earns ff miles, hotel points, rental car points, etc.  Because of that, we travel quite a bit.  He has also scheduled us for a week in Phuket Thailand in May and then we have a weeklong Bean-Family reunion in Colorado in late June.  Because of all that, I think it'd be easier to resume working in July rather than hunting now.  I know the gap on my resume won't look good but what kind of employer is going to give a new hire four weeks of vacation within six months of hiring on?  Not to mention my husband intends to keep travelling this way until we have children.

So I'm lucky to have him, but it makes finding and keeping a job a bit trickier.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Bethalize on January 21, 2014, 09:14:16 AM
Jillybean When do you plan on giving your notice?

In two days (the 23rd). 

Good luck! I'm betting that they all run around like headless chickens and act shocked and affronted that you would consider resigning. They will use phrases like "leave us in the lurch" and try and make out it's all your fault. Hopefully you will be able to stay calm, shrug your shoulders and say things like: "Unfortunately, it was the only option left to me".

Do please post how you get on.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: VorFemme on January 21, 2014, 11:17:59 AM
Your vacation sounds like it's going to be fantastic; Africa, I'm so envious! 

I'm rooting for you, JillyBean, good luck!  I do hope you'll tell us all what happened (Because we're nosy like that :D)


ahem..I prefer the word inquisitive

"Living vicariously" because WE aren't going to the same place.....
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: katycoo on January 21, 2014, 04:33:59 PM
And on the flip side, here in Australia we do have legislated personal leave, but in most cases you can't use it for general doctors appointments etc.  Its for when you actually can't physically work (due to being sick or having to care for a sick family member), not for when you need a check up or a shot or something.   Some companies are more lenient than others but that's generally the rule.

I've never had a problem using it for anything medical related.  That said, if I needed vaccines or something, I'd try for an early or late appointment so I only needed to take an hour or so.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: bansidhe on January 21, 2014, 06:10:29 PM
I just can't imagine any company ever thinking a person was just going to skip their already booked vacation because of work?  What kind of power trip are they on!

My company thinks exactly that. People who've had vacations planned for forever have had them canceled. The power trip that the company is on is that they hold most of the cards. It's not so easy to just walk out and find another job right away - at least not where I live.

We also have to accrue vacation days and if we leave the company, they don't pay out unused vacation time. It also does not roll over from year to year.

Hooray for corporate America.  :-\
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: aussie_chick on January 21, 2014, 10:20:24 PM
I just can't imagine any company ever thinking a person was just going to skip their already booked vacation because of work?  What kind of power trip are they on!

My company thinks exactly that. People who've had vacations planned for forever have had them canceled. The power trip that the company is on is that they hold most of the cards. It's not so easy to just walk out and find another job right away - at least not where I live.

We also have to accrue vacation days and if we leave the company, they don't pay out unused vacation time. It also does not roll over from year to year.

Hooray for corporate America.  :-\

Wow... the next time I want to complain or think to myself "I wish I had more time off" I have to remind myself that I really do live in the lucky country. Our National Employment Standards provides that all employees will have 4 weeks paid annual leave per year and 2 weeks personal (sick) leave. Many employers offer more to be more competitive. Annual leave is an entitlement and if you leave, it must be paid out. Personal leave does not get paid out.
It's also in law that an employer cannot reasonably refuse an employees request for annual leave - and reasons that might be reasonable and unreasonable are available.

Sorry to go OT but i'm wondering if i've gotten a bit soft and spoiled!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Danika on January 21, 2014, 11:52:34 PM
I just can't imagine any company ever thinking a person was just going to skip their already booked vacation because of work?  What kind of power trip are they on!

My company thinks exactly that. People who've had vacations planned for forever have had them canceled. The power trip that the company is on is that they hold most of the cards. It's not so easy to just walk out and find another job right away - at least not where I live.

We also have to accrue vacation days and if we leave the company, they don't pay out unused vacation time. It also does not roll over from year to year.

Hooray for corporate America.  :-\

Wow... the next time I want to complain or think to myself "I wish I had more time off" I have to remind myself that I really do live in the lucky country. Our National Employment Standards provides that all employees will have 4 weeks paid annual leave per year and 2 weeks personal (sick) leave. Many employers offer more to be more competitive. Annual leave is an entitlement and if you leave, it must be paid out. Personal leave does not get paid out.
It's also in law that an employer cannot reasonably refuse an employees request for annual leave - and reasons that might be reasonable and unreasonable are available.

Sorry to go OT but i'm wondering if i've gotten a bit soft and spoiled!

I'm from the U.S. and still live here. I just watched a few travel videos to see what places I'd like to visit. They stated that Sydney has nice, sunny and warm weather year-round. I was already very tempted to move there. Now, you're making me even more jealous.  ;) Most companies in my field give us 10 days off for vacation a year. If you're a good negotiator and they really want you, they might give you 15 until you've worked for the company for many years. In my field, it's normal to work 60 hour weeks.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Katana_Geldar on January 21, 2014, 11:59:19 PM
I'm in Sydney now and I can tell you it's neither sunny nor very warm today. ;)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Winterlight on January 22, 2014, 08:36:28 AM
If they offer to approve my vacation time when I had in my resignation, I will decline.  This is no longer a good employment option for me.

I think that's wise- I can easily see UnprofessionalBoss doing her level best to punish you for having the temerity to stand up for yourself.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BabyMama on January 22, 2014, 06:03:02 PM
I worked a part-time job in college that gave everyone, even part timers, PTO and sick days--it was a nominal amount, like 3 PTO days and 2 sick days, but they were there, and in theory we were encouraged to use them (and they were use them or lose them.) So I used a sick day when I was really sick.

At my next review, I was given a "teamsmanship" talk and lectured about "that one day you took off because you were sick." Nice.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: katycoo on January 22, 2014, 06:30:01 PM
I'm from the U.S. and still live here. I just watched a few travel videos to see what places I'd like to visit. They stated that Sydney has nice, sunny and warm weather year-round. I was already very tempted to move there.

Lies.  It is overcast and about 23C today and has been all week.  Its also the middle of SUMMER but clearly someone has lost that memo right now.
It is definitely sunny more than not though, and hot more than not in summer.  I gets cold in winter like anywhere else but I guess that's relative to where you're from to start with.

if you wantnice, sunny and warm weather year round, go to Queensland.  The farther north you go the warmer it is, but too far and you'll hit the tropics and gain a wet season.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: sammycat on January 22, 2014, 08:56:13 PM
I'm from the U.S. and still live here. I just watched a few travel videos to see what places I'd like to visit. They stated that Sydney has nice, sunny and warm weather year-round. I was already very tempted to move there.

Lies.  It is overcast and about 23C today and has been all week.  Its also the middle of SUMMER but clearly someone has lost that memo right now.
It is definitely sunny more than not though, and hot more than not in summer.  I gets cold in winter like anywhere else but I guess that's relative to where you're from to start with.

if you wantnice, sunny and warm weather year round, go to Queensland.  The farther north you go the warmer it is, but too far and you'll hit the tropics and gain a wet season.

I live in Qld and I loathe the weather. It's too hot in summer and too cold in winter. Give me overcast and 23C any day. The temps and humidity lately have been beyond ridiculous. Thank god for air conditioning.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: GreenEyedHawk on January 22, 2014, 09:19:14 PM
If they offer to approve my vacation time when I had in my resignation, I will decline.  This is no longer a good employment option for me.

I think that's wise- I can easily see UnprofessionalBoss doing her level best to punish you for having the temerity to stand up for yourself.

I agree, I think this is a good idea.  Your boss is unprofessional enough that if you were to come back to work after your holiday, she'd probaby go out of her way to make your life harder.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Nikko-chan on January 22, 2014, 11:21:19 PM
Today's the day! Hope things go smoothly!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Psychopoesie on January 23, 2014, 12:24:12 AM
Today's the day! Hope things go smoothly!

Hope all goes well. Keeping fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MinAvi on January 23, 2014, 12:32:35 AM
I'm from the U.S. and still live here. I just watched a few travel videos to see what places I'd like to visit. They stated that Sydney has nice, sunny and warm weather year-round. I was already very tempted to move there.

Lies.  It is overcast and about 23C today and has been all week.  Its also the middle of SUMMER but clearly someone has lost that memo right now.
It is definitely sunny more than not though, and hot more than not in summer.  I gets cold in winter like anywhere else but I guess that's relative to where you're from to start with.

if you wantnice, sunny and warm weather year round, go to Queensland.  The farther north you go the warmer it is, but too far and you'll hit the tropics and gain a wet season.

I'm in Darwin and loving the wet season. it is about 26C and raining right now. Beautiful. The mold is pretty special though.

Cheering for you OP!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: cicero on January 23, 2014, 01:58:43 AM
Today's the day! Hope things go smoothly!

Hope all goes well. Keeping fingers crossed.
ten fingers and ten toes crossed here!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 08:40:35 AM
Several of us just got called into Temper-Tantrum-Boss's office and recite what vacation and sick time we'd taken since January 1st.  She also wanted to know how much PTO we'd rolled over from last year.  I must have had a question mark on my face because she told everyone,

"It's easier to call you in here and ask you than look it up myself."

Now I've only had the half-day to go get my vaccines but another woman has been out multiple days with a sick (had to have surgery) child.  It seemed awkward listening to people recite how many days they'd taken in front of the group.  I don't care if Suzie Q. Coworker takes fifteen sick days a month.  Their absences have no effect on me. 

Is that weird?  Or am I a little sensitive?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: bopper on January 23, 2014, 08:52:11 AM
It's weird.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 23, 2014, 08:57:40 AM
It's beyond weird and I'd have refused to tell her with other people in the room.  It is not your coworker's business what time you've taken off.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Miss Unleaded on January 23, 2014, 09:11:14 AM
Very weird.  And unprofessional.  I dunno about other people but I generally don't keep track of that kind of info in my head so I wouldn't have been able to answer.

I think even if you weren't going on vacation soon I'd advise you to get out.  This place sounds very badly run.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: JenJay on January 23, 2014, 09:14:16 AM
As in, since 3 weeks ago? She can't be bothered to look that up? I can't imagine there's been a terrible lot of people out sick and on vacation in 3 whole weeks.  ::)

Something is definitely up around there. I bet your (soon to be former) coworkers have a helluva time getting their vacation and sick time approved this year. Reminds me of my former workplace. I didn't have too many issues because I was a peon but the department managers could never get vacations. One woman ran her department on her own. There was one person trained to cover when she was off (although she usually snuck in at least part of one day) and she'd get called at home and yelled at when she called in sick (which she only did if it was like emergency room sick). She hadn't been allowed to use her vacation time in years, to the point that, when someone anonymously called HR and told them what was up, she got called into boss's office and it turned out he had to give her every other Friday off for the rest of the year (this was early in the year, I want to say Feb?) or she'd lose all those days. Managers could bank 6 weeks max and she had nearly 10, about 5 years worth if I recall. Well of course that happened the first month and then he couldn't spare her and she had a noodle for a spine so that was that :-\. She never made a fuss and I guess whoever her anonymous complainant was decided if she wouldn't fight for herself there was nothing anyone else could do. That was 2-3 years before I quit and she never did take a vacation as far as I know. Probably still hasn't.

Anyway... no point to that. Just sitting around here bored. LOL. Best of luck today - I hope everything goes well and you get out of there with as little drama as possible!!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 09:26:06 AM
I have removed my personal files from my work computer in case they ask me to leave today.  And I got a call late last night from my FIL (who I used to work for as a paralegal) and he invited me to come work for him during tax season so that's kind of awesome.  He pays more than my current job too.  ;)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: CharlieBraun on January 23, 2014, 10:27:57 AM
I have removed my personal files from my work computer in case they ask me to leave today.  And I got a call late last night from my FIL (who I used to work for as a paralegal) and he invited me to come work for him during tax season so that's kind of awesome.  He pays more than my current job too.  ;)

That is totally wonderful!

What about personal items?  Whisk them away at lunch and lock in your car trunk, mebbe?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: siamesecat2965 on January 23, 2014, 10:34:07 AM
Oh very unprofessional. The best way to handle it (besides HER actually looking it up for herself) would be to send an email to all, asking everyone to please give her an accounting of what each has taken, and how much each person rolled over.

It sounds like leaving is probably the best scenario for you, all around.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: tinkytinky on January 23, 2014, 10:37:28 AM
I have removed my personal files from my work computer in case they ask me to leave today.  And I got a call late last night from my FIL (who I used to work for as a paralegal) and he invited me to come work for him during tax season so that's kind of awesome.  He pays more than my current job too.  ;)

This is fabulous news! Now if they try to back up and say ok to the vacation, you have a really good excuse! you have a new job, paying more, starting after your vacation! this makes me happy!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Danika on January 23, 2014, 10:46:38 AM
Very unprofessional and lazy of Temper Tantrum Boss. I don't think she couldn't email or look it up. I believe she was trying to shame the people who had already taken time off. She wants to make you all scared to ask for PTO.

Sounds like the Titanic is slowly going down. It's great that you're going to be jumping ship before you get sucked down with it!

I'm happy that your FIL has an opportunity for you. I'm thrilled for your vacation and that you still plan to go. And I look forward to an update. I wish you had a mini web cam you could wear in your shirt pocket so that we could get it all on video when you tell them you're still going on your pre-approved and then rescinded vacation!

Be sure to stay in touch with your coworkers. I'm sure they will have interesting updates for you in the coming months.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 23, 2014, 11:57:22 AM
Rooting for you today.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MyFamily on January 23, 2014, 12:39:53 PM
How willing are you to burn this bridge?  Send an email to HR and let them know what she did.  I know you are quitting today anyway, but that means you have the least amount to lose at this point.  She needs to be stopped.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: CreteGirl on January 23, 2014, 01:00:54 PM
How willing are you to burn this bridge?  Send an email to HR and let them know what she did.  I know you are quitting today anyway, but that means you have the least amount to lose at this point.  She needs to be stopped.

Yes, this.  There could even be some Hipaa violations going on there (assuming you are in US).
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: wolfie on January 23, 2014, 01:03:00 PM
How willing are you to burn this bridge?  Send an email to HR and let them know what she did.  I know you are quitting today anyway, but that means you have the least amount to lose at this point.  She needs to be stopped.

Yes, this.  There could even be some Hipaa violations going on there (assuming you are in US).

HIPAA is for Medical issue - I really doubt that saying "I took 3 sick days" would fall under that.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: jedikaiti on January 23, 2014, 01:22:27 PM
How willing are you to burn this bridge?  Send an email to HR and let them know what she did.  I know you are quitting today anyway, but that means you have the least amount to lose at this point.  She needs to be stopped.

Yes, this.  There could even be some Hipaa violations going on there (assuming you are in US).

HIPAA is for Medical issue - I really doubt that saying "I took 3 sick days" would fall under that.

Yea, it really governs the release of info by your doc, I think. But there are likely some serious company privacy policy violations involved, and certainly worth a casual mention to HR.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: violetminnow on January 23, 2014, 02:15:13 PM
That's pretty bad. Kind of good to know that it's not just your vacation time that's the problem, but that Tantrum Boss is weird about all time off.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Knitterly on January 23, 2014, 02:36:58 PM
I have removed my personal files from my work computer in case they ask me to leave today.  And I got a call late last night from my FIL (who I used to work for as a paralegal) and he invited me to come work for him during tax season so that's kind of awesome.  He pays more than my current job too.  ;)

So are you putting your notice in at the end of the day, or have you done this already?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 02:50:57 PM
So are you putting your notice in at the end of the day, or have you done this already?

I'm waiting until about 4:30 or so.  I don't really want to discuss a lot of my reasons for leaving (the international travel is really the straw that broke the camel's back) with TT Boss.



ETA: I'm now writing up my two weeks' notice letter.  The sample I'm going by says to use "Dear Mrs. Bossladyslastname".  That sounds quite formal to me.  Do you guys mind if I post the letter here to get feedback before I submit it?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: sejeroo on January 23, 2014, 02:53:45 PM
Good luck! I hope it goes easily for you.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: wolfie on January 23, 2014, 03:03:36 PM
So are you putting your notice in at the end of the day, or have you done this already?

I'm waiting until about 4:30 or so.  I don't really want to discuss a lot of my reasons for leaving (the international travel is really the straw that broke the camel's back) with TT Boss.



ETA: I'm now writing up my two weeks' notice letter.  The sample I'm going by says to use "Dear Mrs. Bossladyslastname".  That sounds quite formal to me.  Do you guys mind if I post the letter here to get feedback before I submit it?


Not sure what time zone you are in so that might not get you enough time. You can get some good advice here. It should be fairly short

http://www.askamanager.org/2011/01/what-should-a-resignation-letter-say.html
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 03:07:10 PM
My Name
My Address
City, State, Zip
Phone
Email
 
23 January 2014

TT Boss
Boss's Title
Company Name
City, State

Dear Mrs. Boss:

I am writing to announce my resignation from Our Company, effective two weeks from this date.  My last day will be Thursday, February 6th, 2014.

I wish you and the company all the best.

Sincerely,

OSUJillyBean

Cc:  Professional Boss

(Updated!)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Knitterly on January 23, 2014, 03:10:52 PM
My Name
My Address
City, State, Zip
Phone
Email
 
23 January 2014

TT Boss
Boss's Title
Company Name
City, State

Dear Mrs. Boss:

I am writing to announce my resignation from Our Company, effective two weeks from this date.  My last day will by Thursday, February 6th, 2014.

Thank you for the opportunities for learning and growth that you have provided me.

I wish you and the company all the best.

Sincerely,

OSUJillyBean

Cc:  Professional Boss

I think that actually sounds quite good.  Crisp, concise, professional.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Ms_Cellany on January 23, 2014, 03:11:05 PM
*be* Thursday.

Thank you for the opportunities for learning and growth that you have provided me.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: dawbs on January 23, 2014, 03:22:59 PM
that sounds good to me.

Concise(less is more) and professional (no bridge-burning) is the way to go with these things.

and good for not giving a reason in writing :)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Frog24 on January 23, 2014, 03:23:24 PM
My comments below:

My Name
My Address
City, State, Zip
Phone
Email
 
23 January 2014

TT Boss
Boss's Title
Company Name
City, State

Dear Mrs. Boss:

I am writing to announce inform you of my resignation from Our Company, effective two weeks from this date today.  My last day will by is Thursday, February 6th, 2014.

Thank you for the opportunities for learning and growth that you have provided me.

I wish you and the company all the best.

Sincerely,

OSUJillyBean

Cc:  Professional Boss
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Deetee on January 23, 2014, 03:29:22 PM
My comments below:

My Name
My Address
City, State, Zip
Phone
Email
 
23 January 2014

TT Boss
Boss's Title
Company Name
City, State

Dear Mrs. Boss:

I am writing to announce inform you of my resignation from Our Company, effective two weeks from this date today.  My last day will by is Thursday, February 6th, 2014.

Thank you for the opportunities for learning and growth that you have provided me.

I wish you and the company all the best.

Sincerely,

OSUJillyBean

Cc:  Professional Boss

I like the changes above,     but like keeping  the "Thank you for the opportunities for learning and growth that you have provided me.". No need to say that those were opportunities that convinced you to go elsewhere to learn and grow.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: lowspark on January 23, 2014, 03:35:47 PM
Yeah I was going to say to change "announce" to "submit".
I also agree that there's nothing at all wrong with saying "thank you for the opportunity...".
I don't see anything at all wrong with leaving on a high note. Don't burn bridges, they always say. Not that leaving that off is burning a bridge, but I think it just makes you look all the more professional.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: MrTango on January 23, 2014, 03:40:35 PM
Short & professional is the way to go.  Good luck, OP!!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 23, 2014, 04:47:13 PM
Yeah I was going to say to change "announce" to "submit".
I also agree that there's nothing at all wrong with saying "thank you for the opportunity...".
I don't see anything at all wrong with leaving on a high note. Don't burn bridges, they always say. Not that leaving that off is burning a bridge, but I think it just makes you look all the more professional.

I agree with this. change announce to inform or submit.

I think you should keep the thank you.

I would use "is" for the last date because it has yet to occur so it "will be".

Good luck and so happy your leaving this environment. Your story has hit me more than others on eHell and I think it's because I want to shake your manager and yell "quit giving us managers a bad name!!!!!"
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 04:48:49 PM
5 o clock.  Now or never.  I'm nervous as heck about her reaction (which I imagine is going to be ehell worthy and will tell you guys later all about it).

Thanks for all the thoughts, advice, and well wishes!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: oz diva on January 23, 2014, 04:51:30 PM
Good luck, it's probably too late, but there's very little she can do to you now. You have the power.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Jones on January 23, 2014, 04:52:02 PM
Imagine me standing by you! You'll be fine, she has no power over you!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BarensMom on January 23, 2014, 04:54:55 PM
Is anyone else hanging around this thread with baited breath?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: random numbers on January 23, 2014, 04:59:24 PM
15493 Views so far.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: JenJay on January 23, 2014, 05:02:54 PM
5:02
I hope you're walking to your car, head held high, feeling free and looking forward to your amazing vacation!!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Psychopoesie on January 23, 2014, 05:04:50 PM
Not only crossing fingers and toes but also eyes.  :)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: blackthumb on January 23, 2014, 05:20:19 PM
The suspense is KILLING me!!!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BarensMom on January 23, 2014, 05:21:13 PM
We'll have to wait until she gets home, I guess.  Hope she doesn't have a long commute.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Nikko-chan on January 23, 2014, 05:27:32 PM
We'll have to wait until she gets home, I guess.  Hope she doesn't have a long commute.

Oh good. I am not the only one waiting for an update!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BarensMom on January 23, 2014, 05:34:01 PM
We'll have to wait until she gets home, I guess.  Hope she doesn't have a long commute.

Oh good. I am not the only one waiting for an update!

...and as we all hum the theme song from Jeopardy...
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Mel the Redcap on January 23, 2014, 05:37:33 PM
We'll have to wait until she gets home, I guess.  Hope she doesn't have a long commute.

Oh good. I am not the only one waiting for an update!

...and as we all hum the theme song from Jeopardy...

I was going with Mission Impossible.  ;D
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: Psychopoesie on January 23, 2014, 05:44:53 PM
We'll have to wait until she gets home, I guess.  Hope she doesn't have a long commute.

Oh good. I am not the only one waiting for an update!

...and as we all hum the theme song from Jeopardy...

I was going with Mission Impossible.  ;D

Mission impossible works for me.  :)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 23, 2014, 05:50:26 PM
Okay, I'm pretty sure my boss is bipolar.  We've been struggling all day with difficult issues we're not trained on and it's been stressful for everyone.  Not the best day to give her bad news.  But what else can ya do?  So I pulled up my big girl underpants and marched in there with a copy of my letter and said,.

"I have this for you."  That's a lame way to phrase it but I couldn't think of anything better / more professional. 

She read it and replied, "Awwww!  We'll miss you!  Did you find something better?"

Me:  "Yes.  I'll be working for my father-in-law and he's offered me more money than what I make here."

(Sidenote - I make the same hourly wage today that I made when I started at our company on Jan 2013).

Boss:  "Well then I'm happy for you!  We'll miss you around here."

It was awkward and unexpected but it was absolutely the best possible outcome.  Maybe not ehell-worthy (no one had to call the cops) but I'm just relieved its over with and VERY grateful to all of you for helping me with this.
 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Psychopoesie on January 23, 2014, 05:52:59 PM
Yay. So glad it worked out. Really good outcome.  ;D
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: JenJay on January 23, 2014, 05:54:04 PM
Fantastic!! Okay I admit I kinda wish you'd added "Plus I'm taking that vacation..." but this is your life not my sitcom.  ;)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: BarensMom on January 23, 2014, 06:00:51 PM
Okay, I'm pretty sure my boss is bipolar.  We've been struggling all day with difficult issues we're not trained on and it's been stressful for everyone.  Not the best day to give her bad news.  But what else can ya do?  So I pulled up my big girl underpants and marched in there with a copy of my letter and said,.

"I have this for you."  That's a lame way to phrase it but I couldn't think of anything better / more professional. 

She read it and replied, "Awwww!  We'll miss you!  Did you find something better?"

Me:  "Yes.  I'll be working for my father-in-law and he's offered me more money than what I make here."

(Sidenote - I make the same hourly wage today that I made when I started at our company on Jan 2013).

Boss:  "Well then I'm happy for you!  We'll miss you around here."

It was awkward and unexpected but it was absolutely the best possible outcome.  Maybe not ehell-worthy (no one had to call the cops) but I'm just relieved its over with and VERY grateful to all of you for helping me with this.

If I remember correctly, you gave two weeks notice, right?  So there's still time for the cray-cray to emerge - just make sure all your personal stuff is out of there.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Jones on January 23, 2014, 06:18:39 PM
I'll bet there are budgetary issues (hence the no-cost-of-living increases), so the boss has been hoping someone wouldn't want to put up with her antics and would quit so she wouldn't have to justify a layoff.


Or, I would, if I were a betting person.

Glad it went smoothly!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: blueyzca01 on January 23, 2014, 06:18:42 PM
Wow, she sounds like my Psycho Demon Female Dog from H*ll.  I’ve written about her before, but suffice to say that I was continually sick for about 8 months because my body was telling me that it didn’t want to put up with her psychosis anymore.

After tormenting me for a couple of years, I finally quit.  And you know what she says???

“But WHY?!?!?!?!?!”  She looked truly clueless. 

Good times.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 23, 2014, 07:34:56 PM
Glad it went smoothly and she didn't try any antics. At least she knows how to take a resignation graciously.

Hope you have an uneventful two weeks and enjoy your well deserved adventure with your husband.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Girly on January 23, 2014, 07:57:15 PM
Jillybean When do you plan on giving your notice?

In two days (the 23rd).  DH informed me our flight got switched on the 7th so instead of leaving at 6pm, we'll be headed out in the early afternoon so I can't work that day like I originally planned to.

I am very blessed with my DH.  He travels weekly for work and earns ff miles, hotel points, rental car points, etc.  Because of that, we travel quite a bit.  He has also scheduled us for a week in Phuket Thailand in May and then we have a weeklong Bean-Family reunion in Colorado in late June.  Because of all that, I think it'd be easier to resume working in July rather than hunting now.  I know the gap on my resume won't look good but what kind of employer is going to give a new hire four weeks of vacation within six months of hiring on?  Not to mention my husband intends to keep travelling this way until we have children.

So I'm lucky to have him, but it makes finding and keeping a job a bit trickier.

Well since you accumulate far less than three weeks vacation time / year, I think you made the right decision for you and your family.

Hope you find something soon after all that travelling! I so wish I was going with you.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: GrammarNerd on January 23, 2014, 08:08:20 PM
But dang, I almost wish that the vacation debacle could have come up somehow.  So you'd have the pleasure of saying "this could have been avoided if you'd only kept your word and honored the commitment that you made regarding my time off. But....sucks to be you!  You're still here, and I don't have to put up with it anymore!  Hee hee hee!!!"

Of course, I know that you couldn't say that, but really, don't you just WANT to?

Good for you, though, for the low drama aspect.  Whew!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: sammycat on January 23, 2014, 08:55:54 PM
OP, will you be doing an exit interview, and if so, will you mention the holiday issue?
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Danika on January 23, 2014, 09:14:14 PM
Yay! It's done.

I, myself, would have mentioned the vacation. But now that I think about it, it's probably better that you did not. She might get pleasure out of knowing that her antics drove you to leave.

I can't wait to see what higher up boss says about you leaving.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: sammycat on January 23, 2014, 09:41:12 PM
I can't wait to see what higher up boss says about you leaving.

Yes, I think their reaction/s will be more telling than Crazy Boss', especially when/if they discover that Crazy Boss' antics drove away a good employee. They might be wondering how many other employees they're at risk of losing due to CB, and/or possibly their time off procedures.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: CuriousParty on January 23, 2014, 10:08:53 PM
"Did you find something better?"

"Yes......FREEEEDOOOOMMM!!!" (a'la William Wallace)


Your way was much more dignified, though. :). Congrats!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: JenJay on January 24, 2014, 07:14:05 AM
"Did you find something better?"

"Yes......FREEEEDOOOOMMM!!!" (a'la William Wallace)


Your way was much more dignified, though. :). Congrats!

No kidding!
We had very specific shirts at my crap job, definitely couldn't be worn anywhere else. I had three when I quit and I burned them in our fire pit. It was glorious!  ;D
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: wolfie on January 24, 2014, 09:23:02 AM
I can't wait to see what higher up boss says about you leaving.

Yes, I think their reaction/s will be more telling than Crazy Boss', especially when/if they discover that Crazy Boss' antics drove away a good employee. They might be wondering how many other employees they're at risk of losing due to CB, and/or possibly their time off procedures.

On the other hand the OP says she was only there for a year. So they might not be as worried about losing her as they would about losing someone who has been there for 10 years and proven themselves in many ways. Especially because the OP said she was being paid more someplace else. They might just chalk it up to the OP realized she wanted a better paying job and so be it.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 24, 2014, 09:57:19 AM
Fun update today.  I am friendly with a new-to-our-department-coworker.  She sits in the cubicle next to mine.  I have been training her on our system for a few weeks (when she has a spare minute) and she knows the whole story about why I handed in my notice. 

After I left yesterday, apparently TT Boss switched gears from  "Oh we'll miss you!" to heavy sighs, slamming her door shut as she left, etc.  Then she (TT Boss) put something on Facebook about "straw that broke the camel's back", meaning she has too much on her plate.  I am not friends on Facebook with my boss so I don't know exactly what it said but it was something along those lines.

So this morning TT Boss has called in both new woman AND the coworker she physically assaulted a few months ago.  Boss wants them to start taking over my responsibilities in addition to their own.  Both are already overworked.  New Woman is being told to do the work of three people AND learn my job.  She is doing the best she can but there are only so many hours in a day.  Assaulted Coworker just ignored the summons and won't come down to face TT Boss.  (I don't blame her!)

So my boss has two weeks to try and replace me and oh yeah, none of my coworkers want these responsibilities.  Snarky Jillybean is grinning about the whole stupid debacle because Boss has really brought it on herself.

Now to just sit back, put in my last couple of days, and bid this place adieu.

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: RubyCat on January 24, 2014, 10:24:03 AM
Karma. Love it. Though I do feel really bad for the employees that will still be working for her. Hopefully upper management will come down on TT boss like a ton of bricks (unlikely, I admit) or the other employees find better positions. Soon.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Hmmmmm on January 24, 2014, 10:28:06 AM
Glad her lack of management skills will get highlighted during this transition. I can not believe the company allows her to still have a job after assaulting an employee let alone allow that employee to still report into her. Just blows my mind.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 24, 2014, 10:34:38 AM
I get the impression upper management doesn't know anything about the assault.  I'm not really involved (I was a witness and it was me who informed Professional Boss) but that's the only thing I can think of to explain why TT Boss is still working here.  The victim of the assault said she would have quit but she was afraid of losing her health insurance. 
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Jones on January 24, 2014, 11:09:33 AM
How do you feel about being a big whistleblower to upper management on the way out? If they don't know about these abuses of power, they can't fix it.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: CreteGirl on January 24, 2014, 05:35:14 PM
I think the company needs to know why you are leaving.  It costs time and money to recruit a new employee.  Because TT boss did not want you to take a vacation, presumably because the company is busy, now not only do they not have you for two weeks, but for all the weeks after that.

This is a very poor business decision.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: weeblewobble on January 24, 2014, 06:42:43 PM
would you mind (vaguely) describing the circumstances of the assault?  that bit has me flabbergasted.  (Did I miss that post?)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Tea Drinker on January 24, 2014, 06:48:02 PM
I think the company needs to know why you are leaving.  It costs time and money to recruit a new employee.  Because TT boss did not want you to take a vacation, presumably because the company is busy, now not only do they not have you for two weeks, but for all the weeks after that.

This is a very poor business decision.

The question is whether OP feels any obligation to give the company that information, given how badly managed it is and how she's been treated. (There's a "don't protect ex-problem-boss" argument, certainly, but that's separate from "the company needs to know this.")
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: sammycat on January 24, 2014, 07:25:26 PM
If I was a boss, I'd want to know if there was an out of the ordinary reason that workers were leaving.  It's pretty standard for people to move on for reasons such as more money, better use of skillset, etc, but if a particular employee (in this case Crazy Boss) was driving people away then I'd really want to know that too. Also, if enough people were leaving, or heck, even one person, was leaving because our time-off policies were weird, I'd want to know that too, so I could reevaluate them if need be. From the sounds of it, the company could be facing a bit of a problem in this area in the future with the new leave structure they've implemented.

At one job I had, a lot of people left because of one particular employee - including his own brother! Unfortunately he was the bosses son, so that put it in a different category than the OP's situation, but in most companies it would be hoped that the higher ups would rather get rid of one problem employee than continue to lose good workers because of one bad person.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Outdoor Girl on January 24, 2014, 07:38:09 PM
I tried that when I left my last job.  I started it off by refusing to sign my performance appraisal, which garnered me a meeting with my supervisor's manager.  Who supported the supervisor and wasn't interested in what I had to say.  I was already looking for another job at this point.

When I was finally leaving that job, I had a discussion with my coworkers.  I was willing to go to bat for/with them - there was a new manager - but let them know that they would all have to speak up.  It couldn't just be me and one other woman doing the talking.  Because if the men didn't speak up, management was going to think it was just a friction issue between the female supervisor and her female subordinates.  The men decided they weren't willing to speak up so I dropped it.

I did get the last laugh because, speaking to those guys after I'd left, they regretted not taking me up on my offer.  That supervisor is still there, still driving them crazy.  Because she sucks up to management and gives them what they want, on the backs of her staff.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: eltf177 on January 25, 2014, 06:54:57 AM
If I was a boss, I'd want to know if there was an out of the ordinary reason that workers were leaving.  It's pretty standard for people to move on for reasons such as more money, better use of skillset, etc, but if a particular employee (in this case Crazy Boss) was driving people away then I'd really want to know that too. Also, if enough people were leaving, or heck, even one person, was leaving because our time-off policies were weird, I'd want to know that too, so I could reevaluate them if need be. From the sounds of it, the company could be facing a bit of a problem in this area in the future with the new leave structure they've implemented.

At one job I had, a lot of people left because of one particular employee - including his own brother! Unfortunately he was the bosses son, so that put it in a different category than the OP's situation, but in most companies it would be hoped that the higher ups would rather get rid of one problem employee than continue to lose good workers because of one bad person.

Unfortunately, many times management knows and just doesn't care. There's one thread over on c*stomerssuck that perfectly illustrates this.

Boss drove out 17 people in less than a year, most of whom didn't give notice. One worker who quit informed HR of just what was going on, and HR did nothing. Finally Boss got caught falsifying punch-in sheets to deny workers their bonus. At that point she was finally terminated.

As one reader put it: "Yes she's causing problems, but not to the suits. So nothing happens. Then she gets caught falsifying records. Now she's causing problems to the suits, so action is now taken."

Unfortunately too often management looks out for themselves and the bottom line, their attitude is that the peons aren't in a position to complain...
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: LadyClaire on January 25, 2014, 08:01:16 AM
If I was a boss, I'd want to know if there was an out of the ordinary reason that workers were leaving.  It's pretty standard for people to move on for reasons such as more money, better use of skillset, etc, but if a particular employee (in this case Crazy Boss) was driving people away then I'd really want to know that too. Also, if enough people were leaving, or heck, even one person, was leaving because our time-off policies were weird, I'd want to know that too, so I could reevaluate them if need be. From the sounds of it, the company could be facing a bit of a problem in this area in the future with the new leave structure they've implemented.

At one job I had, a lot of people left because of one particular employee - including his own brother! Unfortunately he was the bosses son, so that put it in a different category than the OP's situation, but in most companies it would be hoped that the higher ups would rather get rid of one problem employee than continue to lose good workers because of one bad person.

Unfortunately, many times management knows and just doesn't care. There's one thread over on c*stomerssuck that perfectly illustrates this.

Boss drove out 17 people in less than a year, most of whom didn't give notice. One worker who quit informed HR of just what was going on, and HR did nothing. Finally Boss got caught falsifying punch-in sheets to deny workers their bonus. At that point she was finally terminated.

As one reader put it: "Yes she's causing problems, but not to the suits. So nothing happens. Then she gets caught falsifying records. Now she's causing problems to the suits, so action is now taken."

Unfortunately too often management looks out for themselves and the bottom line, their attitude is that the peons aren't in a position to complain...

We had two cases of that where I work. Big Bosses who were bullying and harassing employees. Multiple people quitting or getting fired for things they shouldn't have been fired for. So many complaints were lodged and nothing changed. One woman was even told by HR "well you know the whistle blower almost always gets fired" when she went to lodge a formal complaint.

Then the Big Bosses started stealing money from the company. Once the higher ups got wind of that, suddenly investigations were launched and they were fired.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: menley on January 25, 2014, 08:54:22 AM
If I was a boss, I'd want to know if there was an out of the ordinary reason that workers were leaving.  It's pretty standard for people to move on for reasons such as more money, better use of skillset, etc, but if a particular employee (in this case Crazy Boss) was driving people away then I'd really want to know that too. Also, if enough people were leaving, or heck, even one person, was leaving because our time-off policies were weird, I'd want to know that too, so I could reevaluate them if need be. From the sounds of it, the company could be facing a bit of a problem in this area in the future with the new leave structure they've implemented.

At one job I had, a lot of people left because of one particular employee - including his own brother! Unfortunately he was the bosses son, so that put it in a different category than the OP's situation, but in most companies it would be hoped that the higher ups would rather get rid of one problem employee than continue to lose good workers because of one bad person.

Unfortunately, many times management knows and just doesn't care. There's one thread over on c*stomerssuck that perfectly illustrates this.

Boss drove out 17 people in less than a year, most of whom didn't give notice. One worker who quit informed HR of just what was going on, and HR did nothing. Finally Boss got caught falsifying punch-in sheets to deny workers their bonus. At that point she was finally terminated.

As one reader put it: "Yes she's causing problems, but not to the suits. So nothing happens. Then she gets caught falsifying records. Now she's causing problems to the suits, so action is now taken."

Unfortunately too often management looks out for themselves and the bottom line, their attitude is that the peons aren't in a position to complain...

I agree with this completely. I was in a bit of the same situation and my coworkers begged me to talk to HR in my exit interview in hopes that something could change before they felt they had to quit. I did, and HR was horrified at my stories and started the process of informing higher-ups - and then it died. Why? Because while my boss treated his subordinates horrifically, he was an excellent charmer when it came to clients, and he did a number of things that were helpful to the company as a whole. So, from the perspective of the big guys, he was making them lots of money, building great relationships with clients, and his subordinates were probably a bunch of whiners who couldn't perform at the level he expected.

That boss is still there, but every. single. person. who worked beneath him from my four years at the company is long gone.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: MrTango on January 25, 2014, 09:43:37 AM
I actually heard of a case where that sort of non-caring behavior by HR led to a case of mass professional darwinism.

A particular manager in my company was a tyrant.  She belittled employees in front of people from other teams (I witnessed this), she refused to allow any of her team to receive bonuses even when they were truly deserved, and she bad-mouthed people to upper management.

Three of her dozen employees quit all at the same time, citing her behavior as their primary reason for leaving.  For some reason, HR couldn't find anyone even from outside the company who was willing to come in for an interview with her.  Apparently, word had gotten out to other companies in our field that this woman was not someone anyone wanted to work for.  Fortunately, our company policy stated that for an employee to transfer to another team, both managers had to approve or it couldn't happen.  My manager and other managers were smart enough to not allow us to be dragged to this woman's team (I'd have quit on the spot if they'd told me I was being forced to transfer).

Finally, management realized that they were starting to lose lots of money because our company wasn't keeping up with commitments that were usually fulfilled by this woman's team (she was down to about 4 employees with 8 open positions) so they brought her in and fired her.  Last I heard, which was a couple years ago, she had to take a part-time job at a retail store because none of the companies in our field would hire her, due to her poor reputation.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Polly on January 25, 2014, 11:00:11 AM
Wow. I only just found the updates to this thread. I am glad things have worked out for you OP. I too would like to know the circumstances of the assault. It sounds like you are well out of there. The place sounds like a shambles and I have no idea how that woman still has a job. I do think it odd that your Professional Boss is not stepping in.

And - enjoy your wonderful holiday!!
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: cicero on January 25, 2014, 01:23:55 PM
just read the update - WOW.

glad you are outta there.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: weeblewobble on January 25, 2014, 05:18:19 PM
The denied bonus thing brings up bad memories.  I worked for company where a manager actively campaigned against all employees getting bonuses, not just the ones in his department. Why?  Because employees who receive rewards of any kind get "over confident" and harder to manage because they "believe they're doing a good job."
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Changes Her Mind 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel
Post by: FauxFoodist on January 25, 2014, 10:56:23 PM
No major updates to report today: Tempter-Tantrum-Boss is out sick but Professional-Boss is here.

I did get approval from PB to take a half-day tomorrow using one of my precious "floating holidays" so I can go to a Doctor's Appt.  What he doesn't know is that appointment is with the health department to get my vaccines so I can travel through Africa for our vacation.  (9 hours in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia). ;D

(Maybe I should feel guilty for the deception?  I don't really, but maybe I should?)

Okay, is it odd I looked for the like button because my immediate thought was "Oh, I love Ethiopian food!"
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: OSUJillyBean on January 28, 2014, 09:11:06 AM
End-of-month is a very busy time for our department.  Reports have to be filed, data has to be keyed into the system and uploaded, etc.  The last working week of the month is usually the only time anybody gets any overtime because there is simply much more work to be done than the rest of the month.  (I might work an eleven-hour day during the last week of the month but only need two hours a day to do my job during the rest of it).

A certain, lengthy report was supposed to come about 8 days prior to the last day of the month.  Our job is to process this report (its in two parts so its easiest to just have two people working on it), add in our own data, create an Excel spreadsheet, and pass that along.  The problem is the report came in so late we'd already closed the month.  When we processed Late Report as usual, it generated all sorts of errors downstream.  They called it "cross month", whatever that means.  Which, okay, is a big error, but no one had told us that we'd need to make changes to how we process that report, let alone what those changes were.

Coworker and TT Boss have never gotten along well.  So when Coworker was unsure of how to proceed, she made her best guess ... and I followed her lead as she's worked here longer and is the woman who trained me.  (You can see where this is going, can't you?)  We submitted the report and the next day, TT Boss was livid that it was so messed up.  She stormed over to our cubicles and began to berate my coworker (ignoring the fact that I had screwed up too), picked up a manila file full of papers, and struck coworker with it.  It wasn't hard enough to bruise my coworker but it was a bratty, childish thing to do and very demeaning.  Coworker's cubicle opens directly across the path from mine so I saw the whole mess. 

I discreetly opened an inter-company instant message to Professional Boss:

Me: We have an awkward situation down here.
PBoss:  ?
Me: TT Boss just hit Coworker because she was mad.

PBoss didn't respond to me after that but TT Boss got called up to his office, still stomping her feet like a toddler.  Coworker gathered up her belongings and took an early lunch at that point.  I told her to go to HR but she was afraid of retaliation.  (Her husband is unemployed and they need the health insurance Our Company provides).

Half an hour later, TT Boss came back down.  Her face was red from crying and she was holding back tears.  Coworker was still gone so she called me into her office.  When I went in, she gave me a formal apology for her behavior and promised it wouldn't happen again.  I accepted her apology and went back to my desk to wait for Coworker's return. 

Coworker did come back and continued her work.  I got busy then with other things and it's been a few months now so I can't recall if Coworker is the one who fixed our screw-up or if they had to call in another department.  I never saw any kind of punishment for TT Boss but then, I wasn't really involved beyond being a witness.

But that's the story of the most unprofessional thing I've ever seen at work.


Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: veronaz on January 28, 2014, 01:00:51 PM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: esteban on January 28, 2014, 02:37:01 PM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)

To be fair it sounds like the hitting was a one time thing.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to press assault charges in that situation either.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: veronaz on January 28, 2014, 02:46:44 PM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)

To be fair it sounds like the hitting was a one time thing.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to press assault charges in that situation either.

No.

1) (As stated earlier in the thread - reply #4 dated January 13) this TTBoss has a history of hitting employees.  And even if she didn't, since when is hitting someone on the job "only" once okay? ??? ???

2) So the employees who are assaulted pave the way for this whackjob to continue hitting people.  That's fair?  No.

Workplace violence is a very serious issue.  There should be zero tolerance.  I think the excuse about not taking action because of health insurance is lame.  However, looks like health insurance will be needed in a place where boss is allowed to assault employees.  Also maybe life insurance.  The situation is insane.

Question for OP - I thought you were going to give your resignation notice.  Did you?  When is your last day?

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: cheyne on January 28, 2014, 02:53:13 PM
The saddest part of the story is that the assaulted employee didn't do anything about being assaulted because she was afraid to lose her job.

The most outrageous part of the story is that professional boss didn't suspend TT Boss immediately, then fire her after statements were taken.  Even in my industry, hitting anyone is a fireable offense once witness statements are taken and signed-out the door they'd go.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: Joeschmo on January 28, 2014, 04:09:18 PM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)

To be fair it sounds like the hitting was a one time thing.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to press assault charges in that situation either.

No.

1) (As stated earlier in the thread - reply #4 dated January 13) this TTBoss has a history of hitting employees.  And even if she didn't, since when is hitting someone on the job "only" once okay? ??? ???

2) So the employees who are assaulted pave the way for this whackjob to continue hitting people.  That's fair?  No.

Workplace violence is a very serious issue.  There should be zero tolerance.  I think the excuse about not taking action because of health insurance is lame.  However, looks like health insurance will be needed in a place where boss is allowed to assault employees.  Also maybe life insurance.  The situation is insane.

Question for OP - I thought you were going to give your resignation notice.  Did you?  When is your last day?
post 145 is the update
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: veronaz on January 28, 2014, 04:19:12 PM
Thanks.
Okay, so you have another week, OP?

ETA:  This is after the fact, I know.........but I wouldn't have told her my plans for another job or my salary.  Not her business.  I would have kept it vague and said "It's time for a change."

Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: MariaE on January 29, 2014, 07:39:34 AM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)

To be fair it sounds like the hitting was a one time thing.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to press assault charges in that situation either.

With the full story, I wouldn't have pressed charges either. Of course it's in no way, shape or form acceptable, but it's not something I would have gone to the police with either. Perhaps the HR - that would depend on what kind of apology TTBoss gave coworker.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: esteban on January 29, 2014, 07:46:40 AM
^^ So the bottom line is that TTBoss continues to hit employees, no one presses assault charges, and she continues to keep her job.  What a zoo.   ::)

To be fair it sounds like the hitting was a one time thing.

I'm not sure I'd be willing to press assault charges in that situation either.

With the full story, I wouldn't have pressed charges either. Of course it's in no way, shape or form acceptable, but it's not something I would have gone to the police with either. Perhaps the HR - that would depend on what kind of apology TTBoss gave coworker.

This exactly.  It would also greatly depend on what level TTBoss is in the company and how big the company is.  I've had someone who was technically subordinate to me pull some stunts including physical attacks (once) that had I reported nothing would have been done because it was a small company and this person was the son of the owner.

Would I have reported it to HR in the company I am in now (very large with very specific rules) yeah, and if their response was to have the person apologize to me and it was a one time thing I doubt it would go father than that.  Because I am in the same boat at the co-worker, I carry our health insurance, Mrs. Deadbody is self-employed and we can't afford other insurance.  Is this a bad option? Yeah, would it feel like the cowards way out at times? Yeah, does that make it wrong? No.  Coworker made a choice that she felt was best for her, from the position she was in I think it was.  Being the whistleblower is great, being willing to stand for your beliefs is awesome, but risking losing your job and putting your family on the street to do it is stupid.
Title: Re: Boss Grants Time Off, Then Denies 3 Weeks before Int'l Travel *UPDATE*
Post by: LadyL on January 29, 2014, 08:28:43 AM
Unfortunately a lot of companies write off aggression that doesn't result in injury as people "blowing off steam." LordL supervises an employee who, when he got frustrated, would do things like punch his desk or kick a door. LordL thought he should get fired for it because it was making people feel uncomfortable and threatened but his company is very male dominated where being angry, yelling, even throwing stuff is considered bad but not fireable. Not shockingly they are being sued by a former employee for hostile work environment.