Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette of the Rich and Famous => Topic started by: MamaMootz on February 01, 2014, 10:42:29 AM

Title: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: MamaMootz on February 01, 2014, 10:42:29 AM
Because..... she's qualified to give lifestyle advice, is she?

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/gossip/la-et-mg-miley-cyrus-advice-justin-bieber-20140131,0,7173017.story#axzz2s5bLLfOJ
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: BigBadBetty on February 01, 2014, 11:42:09 AM
I get what she is saying. You can still be crazy just keep it legal. Miley is in the headlines for distasteful behavior, but she doesn't have a criminal record. I do see the difference. A lot of stars have clubs in their homes so that they can behave however they want without the public knowing.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 01, 2014, 11:59:43 AM
Didn't she state that one of her most popular songs is about using ecstasy? And isn't that illegal? As far as the advice to build a club and party at home, it would keep him off the street, but maybe "Stop acting like a spoiled, out of control brat" is better advice.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: blue2000 on February 01, 2014, 12:07:05 PM
I have to agree with this. She's eminently qualified to give advice on bad lifestyles. And I find it hilarious that Justin is getting called out by someone his own age and level of crazy...
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Promise on February 01, 2014, 12:14:19 PM
Smoking pot is illegal in most states as well and I HIGHLY doubt that drinking alcohol is legal in most states before turning 21.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Outdoor Girl on February 01, 2014, 12:32:06 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

There was an interesting question on local radio last week:  Rob Ford (Mayor of Toronto) was supposedly trapped in an elevator for 45 minutes on the same day Bieber spent the night in jail.  So the question was:  Would you rather be trapped in that elevator with Ford or in jail with Bieber for the night?

My answer was that I'd like to spend the night with Bieber.  I'm mildly claustrophobic and I know I can't take Ford so I picked Bieber.  I figured I could put him in a head lock and lecture him the whole night.   ;D

And yes, I agree that Miley calling Justin out is definitely the pot calling the kettle black.  She's not quite as far down the road as he is but give her time!
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TootsNYC on February 01, 2014, 12:47:23 PM
Smoking pot is illegal in most states as well and I HIGHLY doubt that drinking alcohol is legal in most states before turning 21.


In a great many states, drinking *at home* is in fact legal.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Yvaine on February 01, 2014, 01:07:13 PM
I get what she is saying. You can still be crazy just keep it legal. Miley is in the headlines for distasteful behavior, but she doesn't have a criminal record. I do see the difference. A lot of stars have clubs in their homes so that they can behave however they want without the public knowing.

Yeah, this. I don't know either of them personally, obviously, but Miley's OTT behavior is mostly onstage as part of her act, from what I've seen, while most of Bieber's is offstage in his actual life. I kind of see "Onstage Miley" as a character she's created, like a lot of other artists whose shows are pretty wild and crazy.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Onyx_TKD on February 01, 2014, 01:39:47 PM
Didn't she state that one of her most popular songs is about using ecstasy? And isn't that illegal? As far as the advice to build a club and party at home, it would keep him off the street, but maybe "Stop acting like a spoiled, out of control brat" is better advice.

Using ecstasy is illegal, but as far as I know, there's no law against singing about illegal activities.  ;D Unless there's evidence of her actually using drugs herself or committing other crimes, rather than just singing about them, then I don't see any hypocrisy in her statement that "I'm doing a lot of [bleep], but I'm not doing anything illegal" or in suggesting that Bieber should do the same. Bieber doesn't seem to be listening to any normal, law-abiding adults about his behavior, so maybe another wild young celebrity pointing this out is exactly what he needs.

Also, this was not clear from the text, but Leno was the one who asked if she had advice for Bieber in the video. This wasn't an unprompted statement from Cyrus, as if she thought she was some great authority on behavior. It was an answer to a direct question.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Mary Lennox on February 01, 2014, 02:07:47 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

The drinking age in Australia is 18, but that doesn't mean I can drink in the US before I turn 21.

I've often wondered who is supplying the booze to all the underage stars and how they keep getting away with it.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Twik on February 01, 2014, 02:16:55 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

The drinking age in Australia is 18, but that doesn't mean I can drink in the US before I turn 21.

I've often wondered who is supplying the booze to all the underage stars and how they keep getting away with it.

Because money.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Iris on February 01, 2014, 02:18:43 PM
Although I'm not really a Miley Cyrus fan, I will say that she does seem to be able to keep focus on her career. Perhaps it comes from being raised by an entertainer. I think her advice probably has some merit to a kid like Beiber. If you say "stop drinking" there's no way a kid like that will listen to you, but if you say "drink all you want, but do it at home where it's legal" (if it is) "because all these arrests won't help your career" then you might get through.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: FoxPaws on February 01, 2014, 03:20:42 PM
Because money.
This. I shudder to think what I would have done with unlimited financial resources at 19.

And most of what Miley does annoys/disgusts/doesn't impress me, but...she's "crazy" like a fox. She knows exactly what she's doing and she's producing exactly the results she wants.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TootsNYC on February 01, 2014, 03:23:23 PM
The stuff Miley gets criticized for is what she does on stage; we don't really hear lots of "Miley drunk at a club" stuff.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: MamaMootz on February 01, 2014, 03:29:22 PM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*? 
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Yvaine on February 01, 2014, 03:42:58 PM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

Nobody's saying whether it's "OK" or not--we're talking about whether she's following her own advice about staying out of legal trouble. Lots of artists have built careers on being "shocking." I don't remember Madonna getting arrested either, and I don't think her actual life was ever as weird as her videos or stage shows. If these things are "not OK" by your personal moral compass, that's fine, but it's separate from any legal issues, and it also isn't risking bodily harm to anyone else in the way that drunk driving does. It's theater.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: rose red on February 01, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
The stuff she does is sad (I can't stand her), but she's only hurting herself and her own career.  Can't say the same for him with his destroying other people's property, driving drunk, and peeing in a restrauant(?) bucket, etc.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TootsNYC on February 01, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.


Remember--she was asked point-blank. She didn't get up on her high horse and issue a statement all on her own.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: lollylegs on February 01, 2014, 05:07:05 PM
Justin Beiber endangered lives by driving drunk.

Miley Cyrus performs in various stages of undress, shakes her bum and sticks her tongue out.

You don't have to like or agree with Miley's career, but it's insulting to compare the two.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 01, 2014, 06:48:20 PM
Didn't she state that one of her most popular songs is about using ecstasy? And isn't that illegal? As far as the advice to build a club and party at home, it would keep him off the street, but maybe "Stop acting like a spoiled, out of control brat" is better advice.

Using ecstasy is illegal, but as far as I know, there's no law against singing about illegal activities.  ;D Unless there's evidence of her actually using drugs herself or committing other crimes, rather than just singing about them, then I don't see any hypocrisy in her statement that "I'm doing a lot of [bleep], but I'm not doing anything illegal" or in suggesting that Bieber should do the same. Bieber doesn't seem to be listening to any normal, law-abiding adults about his behavior, so maybe another wild young celebrity pointing this out is exactly what he needs.

Also, this was not clear from the text, but Leno was the one who asked if she had advice for Bieber in the video. This wasn't an unprompted statement from Cyrus, as if she thought she was some great authority on behavior. It was an answer to a direct question.

No, I mean the song is about the fun she's had while on it, not just about it in general (isn't the line something like "We party with Molly"?). I actually don't have a problem with her. She's not to my taste but she's an adult so live and let live. That said, I don't think it makes much sense to admit to the fun you've had while high and then tell someone else to keep it legal. But hey, I could be mistaken about the drug thing. I don't really follow her so all I've got to go on are headlines.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 01, 2014, 07:37:42 PM
They're both hot messes!
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 01, 2014, 09:22:33 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

The drinking age in Australia is 18, but that doesn't mean I can drink in the US before I turn 21.

I've often wondered who is supplying the booze to all the underage stars and how they keep getting away with it.

Because money.

Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: LeveeWoman on February 01, 2014, 09:27:12 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

The drinking age in Australia is 18, but that doesn't mean I can drink in the US before I turn 21.

I've often wondered who is supplying the booze to all the underage stars and how they keep getting away with it.

Because money.

Bingo. Someone is encouraging his outrageous behavior. I doubt this comes from  his attorneys, accountants and other responsible adults.

Handlers, PR folks, bouncers, et alia.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20782443,00.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D437736
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 01, 2014, 10:13:57 PM
Drinking age is 19 in Ontario, where Bieber is from, not that that excuses any of his behaviour.

The drinking age in Australia is 18, but that doesn't mean I can drink in the US before I turn 21.

I've often wondered who is supplying the booze to all the underage stars and how they keep getting away with it.

Because money.

Bingo. Someone is encouraging his outrageous behavior. I doubt this comes from  his attorneys, accountants and other responsible adults.

Handlers, PR folks, bouncers, et alia.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20782443,00.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D437736

Mommy supplied the Rx drugs and Daddy was present the entire night while he was drinking and smoking pot.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TurtleDove on February 02, 2014, 01:06:48 AM
Justin Beiber endangered lives by driving drunk.

Miley Cyrus performs in various stages of undress, shakes her bum and sticks her tongue out.

You don't have to like or agree with Miley's career, but it's insulting to compare the two.

Agreed. Miley was asked to give her advice. As an entertainer, she is winning, whether you like her or not. She isn't a criminal; she isn't disrespectful to the public in her personal life; I've never seen her mug shot. You may not like her style, but it isn't accidental. And as far as singing about drugs goes.....um, so does a lot of music going back decades, from a lot if respected musicians.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 02, 2014, 01:53:04 AM
Justin Beiber endangered lives by driving drunk.

Miley Cyrus performs in various stages of undress, shakes her bum and sticks her tongue out.

You don't have to like or agree with Miley's career, but it's insulting to compare the two.

Agreed. Miley was asked to give her advice. As an entertainer, she is winning, whether you like her or not. She isn't a criminal; she isn't disrespectful to the public in her personal life; I've never seen her mug shot. You may not like her style, but it isn't accidental. And as far as singing about drugs goes.....um, so does a lot of music going back decades, from a lot if respected musicians.

Yep, lots of my favorite songs, by lots of my favorite bands. As far as I know they haven't publicly advised other musicians not to do anything illegal. If they did I'd roll my eyes at them, too. Then again maybe her intent was along the lines of "Don't do anything illegal in public." which would make sense along with the bit about building a club within your own home.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Ceallach on February 02, 2014, 05:12:03 AM
Because money.
This. I shudder to think what I would have done with unlimited financial resources at 19.

And most of what Miley does annoys/disgusts/doesn't impress me, but...she's "crazy" like a fox. She knows exactly what she's doing and she's producing exactly the results she wants.

Exactly. I personally loathe what Miley is doing but it's all part of a deliberate career move and being the next Madonna.   

Hypocrisy would be Lindsay Lohan criticizing bieber.  Both are child star train wrecks who engage in illegal and dangerous activity with no regard for anybody else around them. 

Miley was not rude to answer a direct question in the way she did.   I dislike her, but she makes a good point about why his peeps aren't holding him back more.  I imagine she has a lot of experience with minders protecting her from public bad behavior (apart from the deliberate stuff), so she knows what she's talking about.   I read it as more like "Dude hide your stash!!"  Not "Tsk tsk don't do drugs". 
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: VorFemme on February 02, 2014, 12:40:29 PM
Because money.
This. I shudder to think what I would have done with unlimited financial resources at 19.

And most of what Miley does annoys/disgusts/doesn't impress me, but...she's "crazy" like a fox. She knows exactly what she's doing and she's producing exactly the results she wants.

Exactly. I personally loathe what Miley is doing but it's all part of a deliberate career move and being the next Madonna.   
 

She sure isn't positioning herself to be the next Annette Funicello!  Another Disney alumni..from the fifties & sixties...of Mickey Mouse Club & beach movie fame....who did have her career cut short by illness.  I remember her commercials for Florida orange juice & appearances for the medical research association that was researching the disease that she succumbed to - MS, I think it was.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Onyx_TKD on February 02, 2014, 01:25:59 PM
Didn't she state that one of her most popular songs is about using ecstasy? And isn't that illegal? As far as the advice to build a club and party at home, it would keep him off the street, but maybe "Stop acting like a spoiled, out of control brat" is better advice.

Using ecstasy is illegal, but as far as I know, there's no law against singing about illegal activities.  ;D Unless there's evidence of her actually using drugs herself or committing other crimes, rather than just singing about them, then I don't see any hypocrisy in her statement that "I'm doing a lot of [bleep], but I'm not doing anything illegal" or in suggesting that Bieber should do the same. Bieber doesn't seem to be listening to any normal, law-abiding adults about his behavior, so maybe another wild young celebrity pointing this out is exactly what he needs.

Also, this was not clear from the text, but Leno was the one who asked if she had advice for Bieber in the video. This wasn't an unprompted statement from Cyrus, as if she thought she was some great authority on behavior. It was an answer to a direct question.

No, I mean the song is about the fun she's had while on it, not just about it in general (isn't the line something like "We party with Molly"?). I actually don't have a problem with her. She's not to my taste but she's an adult so live and let live. That said, I don't think it makes much sense to admit to the fun you've had while high and then tell someone else to keep it legal. But hey, I could be mistaken about the drug thing. I don't really follow her so all I've got to go on are headlines.

Were you interpreting the song as an admission of drug use, making her statements hypocritical? Or are you saying it's hypocritical to make money off the image of drug use (by including it in her songs, regardless of whether she's done drugs herself), while telling another artist he shouldn't do anything illegal?

If the former: I'm not familiar with the song itself, but I guess I just generally view songs as fiction. I don't assume what is described actually represents the singer's (or songwriter's) own life in any way, unless there's clear evidence otherwise. For me, writing/singing in the first person is a stylistic choice, not a indication that the singer/songwriter actually experienced what is described. I assume that a lot of songwriters, like authors, write what they think will be interesting or popular among their fans, or what will support their "image," not necessarily having anything to do with their own experiences. So for me, a reference to "partying with Molly" just indicates that she thinks her fans will like that. Unless there was outside evidence that she does drugs herself or it was a detailed description of the drug's effects, I wouldn't take it as a strong indication that she actually does drugs.

If the latter: I can see how it's a bit hypocritical to profit off of songs about drug use, but tell someone not to do anything illegal. OTOH, I think a message along the lines of "Dude. It's fake. It's a show. Just because the fanbase likes 'bad-boy' or 'bad-girl' personas doesn't mean you should actually risk your life or risk getting thrown in jail" is a pretty appropriate message, for Bieber and for their fans.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 02, 2014, 06:39:02 PM
I'm not familiar enough with her or the song to make much of a distinction either way. All I know is that there was a question as to whether she sings **"dancing with Miley" or "dancing with Molly". Someone authorized to speak on her behalf (a manager? PR person?) said it's "Miley" but she came out and said no, she says Molly, and she means the drug. I have no idea whether or not she's actually done the drug or just wanted to mention doing it in her song for some reason. I think it's funny that someone who made a point of using drug references in their songs would advise someone else not to do anything illegal.

**I just looked up the lyrics and she says "We like to party/ Dancing with Molly"
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TurtleDove on February 02, 2014, 07:05:07 PM
POD Millionaire Maria.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 02, 2014, 07:32:15 PM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

How do you know she doesn't respect herself? Just because she doesn't travel by the same moral compass as you doesn't mean she doesn't respect herself.

I agree. And actually she seems to respect herself quite a bit. I get that "It's okay if you don't like me, I'm still going to be who I am." vibe from her. I can't relate to her choices but I don't condemn her for them. I don't think she's out to hurt anybody, unlike a lot if the "It's all about me so give me what I want." garbage you see so much of in a lot of celebrities.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Yvaine on February 02, 2014, 07:35:44 PM
If the former: I'm not familiar with the song itself, but I guess I just generally view songs as fiction. I don't assume what is described actually represents the singer's (or songwriter's) own life in any way, unless there's clear evidence otherwise. For me, writing/singing in the first person is a stylistic choice, not a indication that the singer/songwriter actually experienced what is described. I assume that a lot of songwriters, like authors, write what they think will be interesting or popular among their fans, or what will support their "image," not necessarily having anything to do with their own experiences. So for me, a reference to "partying with Molly" just indicates that she thinks her fans will like that. Unless there was outside evidence that she does drugs herself or it was a detailed description of the drug's effects, I wouldn't take it as a strong indication that she actually does drugs.

This. I don't tend to assume the "point-of-view character" of a song is an exact analog of the songwriter and that everything the character does is something the writer has also done. It's more like a first-person narrator in a novel IMO. But then I've met people who think all fiction is true too.  ;D I used to write some villain-point-of-view fiction and occasionally a reader thought I was admitting to doing some awful things personally.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 02, 2014, 07:39:41 PM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

How do you know she doesn't respect herself? Just because she doesn't travel by the same moral compass as you doesn't mean she doesn't respect herself.

I agree. And actually she seems to respect herself quite a bit. I get that "It's okay if you don't like me, I'm still going to be who I am." vibe from her. I can't relate to her choices but I don't condemn her for them. I don't think she's out to hurt anybody, unlike a lot if the "It's all about me so give me what I want." garbage you see so much of in a lot of celebrities.

I completely agree. Sometimes, in fact, I think she may respect herself a tad too much. She may do well to realize that not all of her ideas are good ones. lol

LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Ceallach on February 03, 2014, 02:10:44 AM
The whole thing put me off about her giving advice to anyone is how she has so little respect for herself. Justin is a train wreck, too, don't get me wrong.

OK, some of you have argued that she is doing all of this stuff in her career - but riding a wrecking ball nude in a video, and that whole twerking thing was just... so sad. So go ahead, Justin, and party at home, but running around naked and simulating sex in public is OK because it's her *career*?

Personally no, I don't think it's OK.   I don't think what a lot of celebrities do for their career is OK, I think a lot of it is disgusting.  But I love that we live in free countries where they can do such things, and those who want to watch that type of entertainment can do so without persecution. 

So no I don't think it's OK, but I do think it's different to public illegal activity which endangers the lives of those around him. 
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: MamaMootz on February 03, 2014, 08:24:37 AM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Winterlight on February 03, 2014, 08:40:54 AM
Her advice is worth as much as anyone else who gets asked. I'd be more surprised if she didn't get questions on him- he's the current scandal.

I am no Miley apologist. I don't listen to her music. But she's managed to get to 21 and not get arrested, and for a child star today that seems like an accomplishment.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TurtleDove on February 03, 2014, 08:42:42 AM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Yvaine on February 03, 2014, 08:45:04 AM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.

And I really think the only reason people are shocked by Miley, in particular, is that she started out as a child star and I think people wanted her to stay a kid forever. Lots of other stars bare as much skin but nobody cares because we "got to know them" as adults, so there was never that cognitive dissonance factor. People wanted her to stay Hannah Montana...well, Hannah Montana was a fictional character.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: rose red on February 03, 2014, 10:03:48 AM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous ......

Well, she already was famous. She is tweaking (twerking??) :) her image.  Personally, I don't think she is lacking in self-respect at all.  She has a great voice and is likely to have a long career.  And I do not think it is an entertainer's job to be an example for anyone else.  It is the parents who should be teaching their kids.

I don't like her voice and have thought that ever since her innocent Hanna Montana days when I happily watched the show.  But I agree it's not her job to be a role model.  As a kid, I had crushes on wholesome celebrities who later went on to be, well, less wholesome.  I wasn't stupid not to realise the changes and blindly start to break laws just because they did.  They weren't raising me; my parents were.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Erich L-ster on February 03, 2014, 10:09:55 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/6Ur5y7P.jpg)
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 03, 2014, 10:50:33 AM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.

This attitude actually makes me furious. No one ever says that male artists who simulate sex on stage or on screen need to have more respect for themselves. In fact, people usually say they need to have more respect for women. The message that sends to young women is enormous. It teaches them that their sexuality is "dirty" and inappropriate. It tells them that sexuality is a male trait and if they want to have respect for themselves, they need to hide that side of themselves, lest anyone think they're one of "those" girls.

Personally, I think Miley looks ridiculous. I don't enjoy her music and her style leaves a lot to be desired. But as a mother of a daughter, it ticks me off that so much of the criticism leveled at Miley has to do with the sexual nature of her performances. Women being sexual is not any more inappropriate or disgusting than men being sexual. Do I think Miley's behavior sends a positive message to young girls? I don't know. It actually seems pretty harmless compared to the rest of the music industry. But the message being sent here, the one I don't want my daughter to pick up, is the idea that female sexuality is unacceptable.

Yup. After that awards show thing she did with Robin Thicke, which I didn't see firsthand but read about after, I got so incredibly ticked off at all the people who said "Poor Robin, he must have felt so awkward!" Excuse me? Watch 30 seconds of his most popular video, look up the lyrics and read along, then tell me again that he was uncomfortable.

I feel the same way about Miley as you do but if I had to choose between having my 13yo DD listen to any one of her songs or that one of his I'll take Miley every time. At least she sings about her own sexuality and not "knowing" someone who seems to be a "good girl" actually really "wants it". The thing that irritates me about his song isn't that the woman he sings about apparently enjoys sex, it's that it's supposed to be a secret that he's calling her out on.

Miley reminds me of Charles Barkley (I believe it was?) when some people said he wasn't a good role model and his answer was basically well yeah, I'm not a role model, I'm an athlete. It's your job to set the example for your kids, not mine.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: JenJay on February 03, 2014, 10:52:40 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/6Ur5y7P.jpg)

Did you see the one where someone actually split each picture in half and swapped them? They really do look a LOT alike! Then again I seem to recall a study where someone did that with a lot of celebrities and it was interesting to see how what's considered "attractive" is actually a fairly narrow set of characteristics that a lot of "attractive" people shared.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on February 03, 2014, 10:57:55 AM
When I think of Miley I think "Yep, when I was in my early 20s I did a lot of crazy stupid stuff, I just didn't have cameras on me when I did it", so I give the girl a lot of leeway. I think in 10 years, or less (it was less for me), she's gonna look at this time and think "Why did I do that? Why did I think that was cool?", I did. Seriously, there are some stories that float around about things I did back then that leave me wondering what the heck was going through my head. And the truth is, nothing was. I had no real responsibilities, though I didn't have her bank account, I didn't have to answer to my mom anymore, I could do what I wanted. So I did. Then I got bored of that and grew up. I doubt I'm the only reformed party girl.

Like Miley, I also never got in trouble with the law. Sure, I went out, partied, danced on tables, made out with people in bathrooms, had a good old time. Then I got in a cab and went home. Never got behind the wheel of a car after partying. Never drove a Lambo at 25mph (no seriously, why even bother Justin? If you're gonna get a Lambo don't drive it like it's a Prius), egged someones house, or caused my neighbors to call the cops on me.

I feel like Miley is doing the wild and crazy thing. I feel like Justin is doing the I'm above it all because I'm famous thing. I know I saw his mom on the View awhile back and her reaction to his behavior was basically "Oh well, he's gonna do what he's gonna do", because he's the paycheck.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: lollylegs on February 03, 2014, 04:01:41 PM
It smacks of self-disrespect to me that she thinks the way to get famous is to get naked in a video and simulate sex at an award show. Does she think she's all that and a bag of chips? Clearly. But you actually can have a career and get PR without performing a porno act at the VMA's. She is too young to figure that out.

Yes, I guess that's my opinion but she's also setting a bad example for girls who may idolize her.

Is anything she's doing out right illegal? No. But I still don't think she's the right person to give anyone advice, career or otherwise. And I understand that Jay Leno ASKED her. Doesn't mean that the advice itself is worth a hill of beans.

This attitude actually makes me furious. No one ever says that male artists who simulate sex on stage or on screen need to have more respect for themselves. In fact, people usually say they need to have more respect for women. The message that sends to young women is enormous. It teaches them that their sexuality is "dirty" and inappropriate. It tells them that sexuality is a male trait and if they want to have respect for themselves, they need to hide that side of themselves, lest anyone think they're one of "those" girls.

Personally, I think Miley looks ridiculous. I don't enjoy her music and her style leaves a lot to be desired. But as a mother of a daughter, it ticks me off that so much of the criticism leveled at Miley has to do with the sexual nature of her performances. Women being sexual is not any more inappropriate or disgusting than men being sexual. Do I think Miley's behavior sends a positive message to young girls? I don't know. It actually seems pretty harmless compared to the rest of the music industry. But the message being sent here, the one I don't want my daughter to pick up, is the idea that female sexuality is unacceptable.

Yes yes yes! Get out of my head  :)

MamaMootz, I think your issue is with Miley and not with what she's said. And like I said earlier, you don't have to like Miley Cyrus. A lot of people don't. But this attitude that she doesn't respect herself and that she's doing a disservice to women everywhere by flaunting her sexuality is actually what's doing a disservice to women everywhere.

I'm interested in hearing what you think about Justin Beiber's DUI charges, after four pages of how much you disapprove of Miley's completely legal activities.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Twik on February 03, 2014, 05:50:04 PM
I have little respect for men who have simulated sex on stage, shy should I respect a woman who does?
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: FoxPaws on February 03, 2014, 05:53:59 PM
^Nope. Consistency is the key.  ;)
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Allyson on February 04, 2014, 01:28:33 AM

This attitude actually makes me furious. No one ever says that male artists who simulate sex on stage or on screen need to have more respect for themselves. In fact, people usually say they need to have more respect for women.

This is a really common attitude for some reason...a guy sleeps around, he doesn't respect women...a woman does, she needs to respect herself. It's pretty frustrating.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: shadowfox79 on February 04, 2014, 01:46:38 AM

Yup. After that awards show thing she did with Robin Thicke, which I didn't see firsthand but read about after, I got so incredibly ticked off at all the people who said "Poor Robin, he must have felt so awkward!" Excuse me? Watch 30 seconds of his most popular video, look up the lyrics and read along, then tell me again that he was uncomfortable.

That ticked me off too, primarily because it struck me as incredibly na´ve. People were asking had he known what she was going to do - of course he did, it was a choreographed dance routine! There wasn't a single thing in that performance that would have come as a surprise, let alone made him feel awkward. He was plainly enjoying every minute.

I'm not a Miley fan but I have to agree about the double standard being shown here.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Winterlight on February 04, 2014, 08:05:33 AM

Yup. After that awards show thing she did with Robin Thicke, which I didn't see firsthand but read about after, I got so incredibly ticked off at all the people who said "Poor Robin, he must have felt so awkward!" Excuse me? Watch 30 seconds of his most popular video, look up the lyrics and read along, then tell me again that he was uncomfortable.

That ticked me off too, primarily because it struck me as incredibly na´ve. People were asking had he known what she was going to do - of course he did, it was a choreographed dance routine! There wasn't a single thing in that performance that would have come as a surprise, let alone made him feel awkward. He was plainly enjoying every minute.

I'm not a Miley fan but I have to agree about the double standard being shown here.

Exactly. It's not like she just leaped onto the stage out of the crowd- he knew exactly what was going on and by participating, helped make it happen.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: BeagleMommy on February 04, 2014, 01:30:02 PM
I'm no fan of Miley Cyrus and I think Justin Bieber is taking the typical child star route headed to either jail or the morgue.

However, what Miley does in her videos is, more than likely, not how she lives her life when the cameras are off.  Many child stars have not transitioned to adult stars without a few bumps in the road.  I took her words as the word of a now twenty-year-old giving a kind of "Dude, really?!" type of advice to someone headed in the wrong direction.  We've all done things in our early adult year that would probably make us cringe (I know I did).  Our advice would mature as we did.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Virg on February 04, 2014, 01:31:13 PM
MamaMootz wrote:

"Because..... she's qualified to give lifestyle advice, is she?"

Given who the advice is directed at, I'd say she's pretty uniquely qualified to give lifestyle advice.  If Miley Cyrus isn't qualified to give advice about being a wild rich young person without getting on the wrong side of the law, then who would be?

It's served me well to remember that when the pot calls the kettle black, the pot is right.

Virg
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: workingmum on February 04, 2014, 01:35:51 PM
I personally don't like Miley's videos or dress sense, but i don't stop DD (10) from listening to her songs or watching her videos. The only rule we have is "If Miley would wear it, DD doesnt". Does that mean I'd happily let DD behave the way Miley does.. eHell no! But like other's have said, the Miley the world sees is a fabricated image, much like a character in a movie. DD and I have spoken about this and she is smart enough to understand it.

As for Justin Bieber.. DD used to be a fan, but his public behaviour has turned her off him. I think he's headed for a lot of trouble.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: TootsNYC on February 04, 2014, 03:39:22 PM
MamaMootz wrote:

"Because..... she's qualified to give lifestyle advice, is she?"

Given who the advice is directed at, I'd say she's pretty uniquely qualified to give lifestyle advice.  If Miley Cyrus isn't qualified to give advice about being a wild rich young person without getting on the wrong side of the law, then who would be?

It's served me well to remember that when the pot calls the kettle black, the pot is right.

Virg

And then there's the idea that the pot would know a thing or two about blackness.

Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Mopsy428 on February 04, 2014, 08:46:15 PM
Hasn't she just admitted to using marijuana and MDMA? She's being a bit hypocritical here. There's no Miley mugshot because she hasn't been caught, not because she's some pristine angel.  ::)
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: blue2000 on February 04, 2014, 09:01:57 PM
There's no Miley mugshot because she makes it a point not to be caught. That was the essence of her advice to Bieber. Not that she thinks he shouldn't party, but that he needs to stay clean in public.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: lollylegs on February 04, 2014, 09:07:50 PM
Hasn't she just admitted to using marijuana and MDMA? She's being a bit hypocritical here. There's no Miley mugshot because she hasn't been caught, not because she's some pristine angel.  ::)

I don't know about MDMA but she's smoked marijuana legally in Amsterdam.

And that's kind of the point of her advice. She's not saying, "Follow my advice and don't break the law ever." She's saying, "Get up to mischief behind closed doors so that your mugshot doesn't end up on the cover of trashy magazines."

Or, as someone else said, "Dude, hide your stash."
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Winterlight on February 25, 2014, 10:30:25 AM
Justin Beiber endangered lives by driving drunk.

Miley Cyrus performs in various stages of undress, shakes her bum and sticks her tongue out.

You don't have to like or agree with Miley's career, but it's insulting to compare the two.

Agreed. Miley was asked to give her advice. As an entertainer, she is winning, whether you like her or not. She isn't a criminal; she isn't disrespectful to the public in her personal life; I've never seen her mug shot. You may not like her style, but it isn't accidental. And as far as singing about drugs goes.....um, so does a lot of music going back decades, from a lot if respected musicians.

Agreed.

One of my favorite songs is Fats Waller's version of The Viper Drag. The first lines are:

I dreamed about a reefer, five feet long.
A mite immense, but not too strong.
You'll be high, but not for long....
if you're a viper.


It was written in 1936. Miley isn't exactly breaking new ground.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 25, 2014, 11:38:29 AM
I think this thread is very unfair to Miley.  She was asked a direct question and answered it honestly.  How is that an etiquette breach?  This isn't Bad Taste He!! or Over-Hyped He!!

Perhaps in the Time for a Coffee Break folder, but I don't think it is appropriate here.
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Ceallach on February 25, 2014, 09:02:08 PM
I think this thread is very unfair to Miley.  She was asked a direct question and answered it honestly.  How is that an etiquette breach?  This isn't Bad Taste He!! or Over-Hyped He!!

Perhaps in the Time for a Coffee Break folder, but I don't think it is appropriate here.

You could say the same about any thread really - that it's unfair to the boss/mother/brother/friend/special snowflake who is presented as rude.     But ultimately just because there's a thread discussing the etiquette of the situation it doesn't mean that the person is actually at fault or that the situation is completely black and white, that's kind of the point of discussing it really, to get people's opinions on whether it is the appropriate response/action or not.  I think the majority of posters in this thread have been quite fair to Miley and have expressed that they don't think she was rude at all, just answering a question.  (Even those of us who dislike her!)
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: Winterlight on February 26, 2014, 08:36:45 AM
We might well argue that Jay Leno putting Miley on the spot with that question is rude!
Title: Re: Pot, Meet the Kettle
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 26, 2014, 10:33:26 AM
I just don't see it as an etiquette question, unless you consider Jay Leno's baiting question, trying to stir the pot.  But the heading on this folder says that this is not for gossip, but etiquette.

Personally, I am indifferent to Ms. Cyrus's behavior, although I can see both the likers' and the dislikers' stances.  This thread is in the wrong folder, IMO.