Etiquette Hell

A Civil World. Off-topic discussions on a variety of topics. Guests, register for forum membership to see all the boards. => Time For a Coffee Break! => Topic started by: Ryuugan80 on February 05, 2014, 04:09:41 PM

Title: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ryuugan80 on February 05, 2014, 04:09:41 PM
BG: I tend to lurk on Customers Suck and I was reading an interesting thread there. The gist of it was that the OP had noticed that they weren't scheduled for Black Friday and thus chose to make plans for the day. Their boss calls later (a day or two before, IIRC) asking/telling the OP to come in for that day because they realized that they would be understaffed otherwise. And they were shocked and sincerely confused at the refusal to come in. This, apparently, was a company that tended to schedule you for more hours now and cut them later in the week, so the OP wouldn't even be making extra money by going in on the busiest day of the year.

So, congrazzles if you've made it through all of that. Apparently that sort of thing happens a lot, people expecting your undying loyalty without having earned it. Whether it's employers or acquaintances/family/etc that treat their people like large indelicate-smelling piles of plant fertilizer yet expect those same people to bend over backwards for them, but are hand-over-chest-and-gasp shocked when those people refuse or quit/cut ties.

Any interesting stories to tell?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Alli8098 on February 05, 2014, 04:42:23 PM
When I was working retail part-time after I lost my full-time job when the economy crashed I suffered a couple of instances with the company and other employees demanding my loyalty.  I told them that I could not work Sundays (they closed early on Sundays anyway).  It's a religious thing, and I was also going to school at the time so that was really my one day off from everything to attend church and be with my husband and daughter.  They had no problem accommodating that until a few months later when I was scheduled a Sunday and grudgingly went in after complaining to the scheduling manager.  I said I could do this one time but not again.  And I never was scheduled for a Sunday again.  But some of us that were hired in the winter were getting our hours cut down to 12 hours a week while the new summer hires were getting more shifts.

With the other employees I frequently would pick up their shifts if something came up like Dr. Appointments and such.  I had no problem with this, my husband was unemployed at the time and I had a child to feed.  However when management suddenly lost my time off request so I could attend my own college graduation and spend one day with my mother who flew in from out of town no one could switch with me.  Not even the one gal who I had covered many many shifts for would help, she just didn't want to work that Friday evening.  BTW, I did go to management to see why I was not granted my time off request and was told it was lost (side-note: I later found out this was common practice for them to "lose" time off requests.).  They would not help me find coverage or anything, so I quit.  I could not stay with a company who cut my hours for no reason, and lost an important request like that.  They definitely lost my loyalty with that whole fiasco.

Subsequently I ran into one of the managers from the store who when she found out what happened was on my side.  She thought it was ridiculous and even mentioned that I worked hard for that degree and should be able to attend my graduation.  Luckily less then two weeks later I found a full-time job where I was treated better.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: cattlekid on February 05, 2014, 04:52:48 PM
Well, I have one that I am not sure fits here or in the Special Snowflake category, but I'll put it here because it is just one example of how my SIL treats us.

One evening, DH and I were on our way out for dinner and to run errands.  SIL called and demanded that we drop everything, return home, print out an emailed itinerary for FIL's upcoming overseas trip and then drive to MIL/FIL's home and hand the printed itinerary to them. 

Here's what made me go  :o  over that:

1.  SIL had a functional computer and printer.  She said her printer was out of ink and she didn't want to have to go to Wal-Mart to buy more.
2.  FIL's trip was at least two weeks away at the time she called.  There was no need for them to have the itinerary RIGHT THAT MINUTE.
3.  We live 30 minutes away from MIL/FIL.  So we would have had to drive home (x minutes), print out the itinerary (another 5-10 minutes) then drive a hour round trip to deliver the document.
4.  SIL was so incensed when we told her that we wouldn't able to accommodate her request that she called MIL and for all intents and purposes, tattled on us like we were kids on a playground. 

This is but one example of SIL's *do whatever I want you do to for me when I want it because we're FAAAAMMMMIILLLY* attitude that she displays on occasion.   But of course, anything we ask for help with from her/BIL is met with crickets.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lady Snowdon on February 05, 2014, 05:57:14 PM
At an old job of mine, the company was just starting to get into social media and going a little overboard.  Everybody in the company was being asked to follow the company on Twitter and like the company on Facebook.  We were all encouraged to post great stories from working there, and how much impact we felt we were having in serving the community.  They even set up a blog for the CEO to write little notes about being in Taiwan or Singapore or wherever (never in my location, funnily enough) and feeling such a "connection" to the staff there.  We were all encouraged to comment on that too.  Basically, we were supposed to shill for the company in our free time.

This was the same company that freely acknowledged they didn't pay more experienced people as much as they paid new hires, that cut all HR staff in outlying service areas and concentrated them in the headquarters, so no one who worked anywhere other than headquarters had access to an HR person, and who wouldn't promote someone with customer service experience into any other role within the company.  Yeah, not much loyalty to the company from most of us, which did not help the scheme they'd come up with for social media.  After a month, there were only about 200 likes in Facebook (when there are more than 5,000 people employed by the company!) and we all got nasty emails about needing to support our company.  Because that's how you solve issues, right?  ::)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Thipu1 on February 05, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
I have one that fits here. 

Mr. Thipu and I had planned and booked a once in a lifetime opportunity (the final crossing of our honeymoon ship) long in advance.  I applied for the time in December and we were leaving in September. The leave was approved by the Uber-Boss.

Then things started getting odd.  My immediate boss left and a search began for a replacement.  One was found and he was to begin work a week before our voyage.  The Uber-Boss almost demanded that I change my vacation time so I could be in the office to break him in. 

The trip we had planned couldn't be rescheduled and it had been approved before the new boss had even been interviewed.  My answer was a resounding, 'NO'. 

After that, the Uber-Boss never really trusted me to do anything important. 

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Eeep! on February 05, 2014, 06:13:00 PM
Not sure if this totally fits but Allli's post made me think  of it. When I was in high school I had an after school job at a yogurt place. After I started I quickly realized that there were several girls working who were buddies with the owner and the rest of us, well, weren't.  At the time I was in drama.  It was tech week and I was scheduled to work, despite asking for the week off. I think it was final dress rehearsal.  I tried to find someone to take my shift but no one would/could. So I called my boss and told her. She pretty much said "oh well" at which point I told her that I was sorry I was going to have to quit. (This was just an after school job to make spending money.) At which point she told me that I needed to find someone to cover my upcoming shift.  ::)  Um, you do remember that that is the whole reason why I am quitting, right? Then she tried to tell me I had to give two weeks notice.  I told her actually I didn't and ended the call. I didn't really miss that job. ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ceallach on February 05, 2014, 06:13:29 PM
This is kind of a demand for loyalty, although a bit unusual...  more of a demand that "because you work for us you should all care about our vision and plan more than your own money and life".         I worked for a very large corporation.   They decided to put on a big convention one year for all the staff, a bit of a "ra ra ra let's celebrate our success" type thing.  I'm usually a fan of that stuff - free food and booze, yay!    This was  a couple of hours, in the late afternoon one weekday.

First the sales director talked about the big wins they'd had and successes of the year, and then our company president addressed us all.    The company president's speech was basically all about how disappointed he was in the company for having such a low turnout for the recent "voluntary charity donation" scheme they'd put in place.    You see, they had offered us the amazing opportunity to have money deducted from our wages and donated to charity on our behalf, so they could announce publicly how generous and wonderful the staff of X company were.    But a very low percentage of staff had taken them up on the offer.   Funnily enough, we didn't want them taking money out of our hard-earned wages.   I honestly felt like standing up and saying "If you want to donate from your million dollar salary to charity please do so, some of us are just trying to pay our bills on our significantly lower salaries!".   I actually do donate to charity, but didn't like any of the specific charities they had selected and also preferred to donate privately on my own terms, not for the company's gratification and public profile.    I actually quit the next day when my formal job offer came through from my current employer, who I adore.  Best move I ever made.      It still amuses me though that his idea of motivating staff was to lecture us all on our selfish we were not to want to donate more to charity when we were given the amazing opportunity to do so and "be part of something".   
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: cicero on February 05, 2014, 06:36:02 PM
My former job ( museum/non profit):

Some of us were asked if we were willing to work on election day ( BG: where I live, parliament election day are a day off, schools are closed, stores are open. In terms of pay it's considered a holiday so we get paid for not going to work). We told my boss that we are willing to come in but we should get extra compensation ( previous places I had worked gave us double time). She said no, that we are being greedy, we will just get paid for the day. We argued that we will be paid for the day anyway so why should we bother coming in? I think they eventually gave us time and a half but it felt really good to have to beg to be paid when they asked us to go the extra mile

Same job: previous HR manager had approved me to go to school for a degree, they would cover certain percentage of tuition plus a certain number of hours per week. I worked out with my boss that i would do overtime to make up the hours. One of the few perks of that job. Then the next HR manager refused to let me go to school, wouldn't reimburse me for that percentage, only a set amount, claimed that whatever previous HR manager agreed was only for one year and a whole lot of other baloney. Tried to claim that there was no reason for !me to go to school at those hours, why cant i go at night? Ummm because they dont give these classes at other times.Luckily for me I had a letter from them stating that they would cover my degree, not just " cover one year" as she was trying to claim. Eventually I left that job.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: hjaye on February 06, 2014, 08:40:58 AM
It seems there is an underlying theme in a lot of these stories, upper management expects loyalty from the bottom up, but you don't see the same loyalty from the top down.

Just about every company I've worked for gives lip service to how important the employees are, the company is the employees, we are all family.................

Now don't get me wrong, I like my job, it's good working conditions, good pay, good benefits, and they are very understanding about family events and emergencies.  I do realize though, they still regard me as an expense.  I am a commodity, a number on a large spreadsheet and if they decide my numbers don't fit in their overall scheme of things they will dump me faster than I can blink.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: siamesecat2965 on February 06, 2014, 09:13:26 AM
BG: I tend to lurk on Customers Suck and I was reading an interesting thread there. The gist of it was that the OP had noticed that they weren't scheduled for Black Friday and thus chose to make plans for the day. Their boss calls later (a day or two before, IIRC) asking/telling the OP to come in for that day because they realized that they would be understaffed otherwise. And they were shocked and sincerely confused at the refusal to come in. This, apparently, was a company that tended to schedule you for more hours now and cut them later in the week, so the OP wouldn't even be making extra money by going in on the busiest day of the year.

Hehe. I had almost the idential situation, except for the last part. My second PT job is in retail, and if I'm not at my mom's for Thanksgiving, including BF, I'm willing to work. However, I also wasn't scheduled for BF this year, but then oh, a week or so out, they tried to tell me it was a mistake (it wasn't) and they needed me to work. Sorry, no can do. What really happened is I think they were told they needed more staff, and having realized they didn't schedule me, oops, we need you now.

I didn't have any concrete plans, but on principle, and the fact I didn't want to get going doing stuff at home, then have to stop and get ready and go in from 5-close, I said sorry, I have plans. They weren't thrilled with me, but oh well. I'm never under any obligation to go in if I haven't been scheduled. They can ask, but that's about it. And a week before is not the time to tell me or realize you messed up. Sorry, not happening.

With that same job; its kind of give and take regarding loyalty. Since I work FT; I don't work Sundays. I do however, work 2 nights and every Sat. Which I prefer. Every now and then they'll ask if i can work a sunday, and sometimes I do, but more often than not I don't. Yet I work any weeknight; don't ask for a set schedule, same with Sat. I will work day or closing. Doesn't matter to me. 

I will say, I kind of follow the principle of "sometimes you have to say no" even if you can do something, beacuse I've found if I say yes to all of their requests, all the time, they tend to want more and more.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Really? on February 06, 2014, 01:16:22 PM
I had a p/t job in college and the schedule was only put up one week in advance, and had "subject to change at anytime" stamped on it. For a p/t job I ususally ended up working about 35 hrs a week, and was always exhausted. Going to school, going to work and trying to catch up on sleep was all I did in life.

I did like the manager and found her really fair when I needed time off with advance. However the second year I worked there I noticed I was off on a Friday or Sat night (can't remember) but it was Hallowe'en night. One of the other waitress that I got on with, invited me out and we made plans. However I just had a sinking feeling all week, and made sure to check the schedule the night before I was off. By 9am my name was still not showing on the schedule to work, so I just went with that but noticed by 11 (when we closed) that my name was there.

I went home and instructed my mom that if work called, I was out. I went out on  Hallowe'en and had a good time. I went in for my next scheduled shift and got a "why didn't you show up you were scheduled". however they let it drop when I said I checked by 9am the night before and wasn't scheduled. Luckily it turned out ok, what didn't was when they higher summer staff for hte same position I had, paid them a significant amount more than I was making. I asked about it and for a raise and was turned down for some ninny of an excuse. Soon after that I got another job and gave my two weeks notice just before my school ended, and the manager's was upset as she had planned to give me as much overtime as I wanted for the summer.

Yeah no thanks.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: workingmum on February 06, 2014, 01:26:14 PM
My last job! I regularly worked 60 hours a week, travelled all over the country to put out fires, and spent long periods away from DD -  but didn't mind so much becuase I was paid extremely well and the company was going places. Then the owner decides that payroll is costing way too much (it was below industry average for that sector), so he's going to cut pays (regardless of the fact that it is illegal!). Mine's first on the chopping block. So in order to keep the peace, I agree but with the understanding that I would cut down the hours I was working. No, that wasn't good enough. I had to keep doing the insane hours at a reduced pay cause who else was going to do the work?

I very politely tell him, what he's doing is illegal, he can either agree to cut my hours as well as pay or I would quit on the spot and bring a case for unfair dismissal. What do you know... he agreed to the reduced woring hours. it was too little too late though - I already had another job lined up and gave him my notice the next week.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: goldilocks on February 06, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
Sort of one in reverse.   

Years ago I was a supervisor.  One of my staff members quit.   No big drama, she never really wanted to work and finally had the chance to stay home.   She was a fair employee.  So she hands in her 2 week notice.

3 days later I have the new job opening posted on the board and am conducing interviews.   She told me this was "disrespectful" of me not to wait until her last day.   
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Yarnspinner on February 06, 2014, 04:42:01 PM


One of Stonecold's brilliant money making ideas for the library was that every library employee would sign a pledge to give up at least twenty dollars from their paycheck to go back into the library.  She created a form to have employees fill out and included it with paychecks every week.  Surprisingly, no one wanted to have money taken out of their paychecks.

And of course, that made all of us capital R r*cists.  So she decided to show us what a popular idea and mailed the forms to all the other city employees demanding that they show us what it's like to be a team player.

The non-library employees went to Labor Relations who explained to her that you Can't Make People Give Back Their Salaries Unless You Are The Mayor. 

Instead of learning from this, she has since developed an adversarial relationship with the mayor in which she routinely ignores hiring practice rules, refuses to get approval for her expenditures, and hires people off the street....then, when caught out,  has to tell the people she has hired "oh, I'm sorry, but the mean old people at Labor Relations are r*cist and just refuse to play ball with me and I have to let you go."

It's especially amusing because the people who run Labor Relations are all, well, the same race as Stonecold. 

I keep wondering what she would do if she actually met up with an honest to goodness real-io, true-lio bigot (like my Uncle Nasty) who actually denied her things because of her race and not because her idea was just plain over the top dumb.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 06, 2014, 04:46:59 PM
I really hate when people use that when they're trying to get their own way. It's not that I'm r*cist, it's that you're a horrible person and they exist everywhere.

I had someone in an Internet message board accuse me of that. How was I supposed to know he was blue, orange or purple coloured?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Slartibartfast on February 06, 2014, 04:54:05 PM
Yarnspinner, that reminds me: I have always wondered whether people who work at United Way are encouraged to donate to themselves  ::)

(I broke up a group of teens who were shouting across the table at each other once.  One of the boys told me I was racist because "black people don't like to be segregated."  I'm proud to say that I - despite being the only white person in the room and a northerner besides - was able to provide a good off-the-cuff ten-minute lecture on how they were disrespecting all those people who fought for civil rights - including their own grandparents, several of whom I know for a fact were involved in local protests and were the reason there's now a "no lying down in the street unless you're ill" law on the books - and just what segregation really entailed.  They didn't try to pull that one again, but that goes down as one of the more  ::) ::) ::)-worthy comments I remember getting . . .)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on February 06, 2014, 05:00:46 PM
Oooooh, yes, yes, yes!

Working for a school district putting in 12 hour days and coming in on Saturdays (mostly unpaid) to work with at risk kids and help push for AYP.  When I got sick and had to use my accrued sick leave I was chastised in a letter from the assistant superintendent for my "egregious" abuse of sick leave.  I still had about a month of sick days banked at that point.  Better believe that I had no problem taking my days when needed after that.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nuit93 on February 06, 2014, 05:02:31 PM
I had a boss (small company) refer to my minimum wage pay as my "salary" and complain about how hard it was to make payroll in the hopes that we'd somehow agree to less than minimum.

Nope, sorry.  I'm not that loyal to anyone.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 06, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
This story (http://notalwaysworking.com/tag/bakery) from Not Always Working.

I really don't get pay cuts to reduce costs, as I think one of he most important assets a business have is it's employees. You keep them happy, they work harder. Most of the time.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: hermanne on February 06, 2014, 05:23:38 PM
^^

I like that one. Way to shoot yourself in the foot, boss!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Thipu1 on February 06, 2014, 06:26:18 PM
My Immediate Boss (IB) was a dyed in the wool 'Union Maid'. She was the treasurer for the local and a surrogate secretary because the actual secretary didn't have a typewriter or word processor in her office. 

When IB left for a new job it was expected that I would take over her union duties.

Erm, NO.

Although I'm fine with my own finances I didn't want the responsibility or extra work of dealing with union money.  I also had no training in the accounting methods they used. 

I'd typed a few documents for the union rep but it was impossible.  The man was a functional illiterate who couldn't write his way out of a paper bag. Just editing it enough to understand what he wanted to say was a chore.

  It might have been all right when IB had me to do other work while she did union stuff but, since I was now the only one in the office, it couldn't be done.

The rep was hurt that I wasn't loyal to the union.

Tough.   

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: aiki on February 06, 2014, 07:06:11 PM
Re: Stonecold

I keep wondering what she would do if she actually met up with an honest to goodness real-io, true-lio bigot (like my Uncle Nasty) who actually denied her things because of her race and not because her idea was just plain over the top dumb.

She'd probably see no difference - after all, this person who is not doing as they should is just another hater who doesn't recognize the true greatness of Stonecold's current grand plan.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: baglady on February 06, 2014, 07:40:34 PM
When I was a senior in college, I was working full time and going to school full time. My work schedule was afternoons Monday-Friday, and mornings on Saturday. I lost some sleep, but it was worth it, as the job was in my chosen field. My boss (who was also in her 20s) was kind of a hard-bottom, and we had some conflicts, but I chalk that up to differing expectations on both our parts.

But the one incident I've never quite forgiven her for, 30-plus years later, was her reaction to my father's death. My mother called on a Monday to tell me he had passed. Of course I promised to come home the next day. I called my boss and told her what had happened. She told me I could have the day of the funeral, the day before and the day after off.

I arrived home Tuesday to discover that the funeral was on Saturday with calling hours on Thursday and Friday (fairly standard Catholic tradition in that time and place), according to the arrangements my mother and older siblings had made -- without me, but that's another story. I called my boss to tell her I couldn't be back until Monday. Her response, in a very snotty tone: "Well, I hope you realize what this is doing to my schedule!"

Plus, I got a ration from mom and siblings for my mildly panicked reaction to learning the arrangements and realizing I would have to take more time off than I'd been authorized for. How selfish of me!

A couple of years later, the founder/CEO of the small company I was working for actually declared, "An ounce of loyalty is worth a pound of cleverness." (Translation: Take that, you people who don't like the way I do things but think I won't replace you because your job skills are too valuable!). This prompted a co-worker to quip that she was thinking about naming her dog (Company Name), because "he's not clever, but he's loyal!"
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: green.and.blue on February 06, 2014, 09:17:17 PM
When I was in college, I had a part time job through my first year, managing at a inbound call centre. Many college students worked there, and they were generally clamouring for extra hours in the summer. I managed to land a full-time paid internship at a non-profit for the summer, but planned to keep my two-nights a week at the call centre so i could keep working there through the next school year.

We handed our availability in, then our schedules were set for the next two weeks. Turned out all the other managers (who were not students) had booked their vacation times for the summer, and the upper management had assumed without asking me that I would want to work full time in the summer since I was a student, so I could cover the vacations without them needing to hire or train additional management staff.

When the schedule came out for the first two weeks of summer with me working every night until 1 or 2 am, I went to my boss and said I couldn't do it. He showed me where I'd marked off "any day/time" on my availability sheet -which I did because I was flexible about which two days I worked, and I had done it the whole time I worked there. He wouldn't change it.

I did work full time hours at both jobs for four weeks while they trained a new manager - but boss's boss didn't end up liking the person they promoted, so they scheduled me for a third set of full time, actually six days each week, with a double shift on one Saturday. I quit.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Vall on February 06, 2014, 09:23:15 PM
This story (http://notalwaysworking.com/tag/bakery) from Not Always Working.

I really don't get pay cuts to reduce costs, as I think one of he most important assets a business have is it's employees. You keep them happy, they work harder. Most of the time.
Oh no.  Another website that I will waste even more hours of my free time.
 ;D Thanks!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: AmethystAnne on February 06, 2014, 09:55:30 PM
Off topic:

^
Ooooo, wait 'till you get there, there are links to 5(?) similar sites, but different topics.  >:D


.....back on topic........
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Minmom3 on February 06, 2014, 11:45:49 PM
Maria - I'd quibble with that.  Not sure how to word what I mean - but minimum effort, I think, isn't a good way to go about any job.  A good solid effort but within parameters set by the job.  Minimum effort says to me that I'm nearly skating in my work ethic.  Whereas, what I feel should happen is that within those limits, you do your best.  Most minimum wage jobs are by their nature fairly restricted.

My first job was Kentucky Fried Chicken.  I learned the names of the pieces KFC sold, I learned how to run a cash register, I learned how to be polite under duress to people who were sometimes trying to get me to break or crack (we were across the street from UCLA in Los Angeles, and we got pranked fairly regularly, as well as the mandatory drunk/high-as-a-kite folk), I learned to have a good work ethic.  It was a good first job - I had to work hard or lose the job, it fed me 6 days a week, and allowed me to buy my clothes, since my mother had quit doing so.  I learned to hugely resent people who gave it a minimum effort, as it meant that I'd be pulling their weight as well as my own. 

Putting out a maximum effort didn't mean I tried to do the cooks job, or the managers job - it means I did my best at my job, all the time.  They treated me fairly, and I treated them fairly by working hard.  Not because I wanted to stay in food service the rest of my life, but because I felt and still feel that I should work hard or get another job elsewhere.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Library Dragon on February 06, 2014, 11:53:39 PM
I tend to think that any company paying me minimum wage and expecting more than minimum effort is demanding of me more loyalty than they deserve. Minimum wage equals minimum effort.

I'll have to disagree. When I look to give raises or move someone from PT to FT it isn't going to be for minimum effort.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Twik on February 07, 2014, 09:20:51 AM
Not an egregious one, but I remember once the owner of the company coming through with visitors, and saying, "And everyone works here for the love of the company!"

It was all I could do not to say, "Well, it sure ain't for the money, Boss!"
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Virg on February 07, 2014, 11:53:45 AM
When I was in high school, I worked a minimum wage counter job at a pharmacy.  Through good fortune I got the chance to go with my German class on a two week trip to several European countries (German-speaking, of course).  When I told the pharmacist about the trip and asked for those two weeks off, he told me that he saw no reason to give me the time off (despite full staffing on the schedule) because my job was much more important than some "dumb vacation" and I needed to grow up and shoulder my responsibilities like a man (remember, I was a teenager working fifteen hours a week for pocket money while attending high school).  I didn't have to quit because they fired me when I told them I still planned on going.  The kicker is that the manager called me well after that and told me that they'd be willing to let me have my job back as long as I'd "learned my lesson".  I declined.

Virg
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kymom3 on February 07, 2014, 12:20:34 PM
Years ago, when DS1 was a baby, I worked at a nursing home.  I am not a nurse, I worked in another capacity.  When I first got the job, I loved it, the administrator was wonderful, staff was great, the residents were well taken care of.  Then, new owners came in, had inexperienced administrator, staff went to heck, not so great place anymore, for employees or residents.

SO---it was somehow determined, scientifically, that our area would experience an earthquake.  Earthquakes aren't unheard of here, but not super common either.  The owners ordered everyone, that if the earthquake happened, we were to come in to work immediately!!  No excuses!! 

I thought, yeah, like I'm going to leave my baby, and drive 20+ miles to work, assuming the roads are even passable--not going to happen!!

I ended up getting fired from that job, which motivated me to finish grad school, so turned out great.  After I was gone, the nursing home and a couple of others they owned were cited for multiple offences and had to pay huge fines.  I would love to know what happened to the owners.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 07, 2014, 01:17:20 PM
Years ago, when DS1 was a baby, I worked at a nursing home.  I am not a nurse, I worked in another capacity.  When I first got the job, I loved it, the administrator was wonderful, staff was great, the residents were well taken care of.  Then, new owners came in, had inexperienced administrator, staff went to heck, not so great place anymore, for employees or residents.

SO---it was somehow determined, scientifically, that our area would experience an earthquake.  Earthquakes aren't unheard of here, but not super common either.  The owners ordered everyone, that if the earthquake happened, we were to come in to work immediately!!  No excuses!! 

I thought, yeah, like I'm going to leave my baby, and drive 20+ miles to work, assuming the roads are even passable--not going to happen!!

I ended up getting fired from that job, which motivated me to finish grad school, so turned out great.  After I was gone, the nursing home and a couple of others they owned were cited for multiple offences and had to pay huge fines.  I would love to know what happened to the owners.

I've got to wonder if it's the same group of nursing homes I used to work in cause I had a very similar experience.  The new owners were ALL about the money and cared very little about the residents.  I wasn't a nurse or CNA but like you, worked in another capacity. 

We had a major snowstorm, I think there might have been some ice too, one year and despite insisting my department (recreation) was "Useless cause it doesn't take any effort to pop a movie in for a group of residents!" he insisted EVERYONE come in and if you can't drive we'll come get you!  I could see doing this for the folks involved in patient care like nurses, CNA's and such but if our department is so "useless" than why did we have to risk our necks to get there?  ::)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MrTango on February 07, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in another thread at some point, but it seems to fit here:

A company I used to work for decided that they were going to start a "social media" campaign.  For the record, I worked in a particular type of group benefit (i.e. a benefit plan purchased by a company for its employees), so we didn't sell to individual consumers.

They wanted each employee to go on to Facebook and "like" the company's FB page.  In exchange, they decided to unlock Facebook so we could access it from our work computers.

With my boss (and her boss) standing in my cubicle, I openly refused, giving these reasons:
1) My Facebook page does not belong to the company, and therefore the company does not have any right to use it for their advertising.
2) The company's electronics policy is that any activity on their computers is subject to audit and review, and nothing we do on our workplace computers can be considered private.  Therefore, by logging in to Facebook from a work computer, I would be giving them my username and password, which I refused to do.

They didn't like that answer, and threatened to involve HR.  I ended up calling the corporate Ombudsman and HR myself to report their threats.  Unfortunately, neither of them were fired, but at least they never mentioned Facebook to me again, which is good because my next phone call was going to be to the sleazy TV news station in our town that would find a way to sensationalize the heck out of an employer demanding access to its employees' FB accounts.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Chelsealady on February 07, 2014, 01:53:05 PM
I was working retail as a manager of a store. That was open 24/7 and 365 days a year.  At one point I worked a whole year with a total of one day off.  But my numbers were good that year.  I trained an assistant and started taking one day off other week. Then we had a period of time where we were getting stolen blind.  We reported it, documented it, and did every thing we could do to stop it. Inventory time came around and we had a bad month.  I got documented for failure to control inventory and was told that I should not take off because I should care about my job.  Eighteen months with a total of 13 days off.  And I supposedly didn't care about my job. 

I turned in my two weeks the next day. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ginger G on February 07, 2014, 01:58:44 PM
My first job as a teenager was working for a veternarian.  She was a good vet, but a terrible people person -  cold, standoffish, would yell at her employees or leave nasty notes over every tiny infraction (perceived or real).  After a year and a half of abuse, I had enough so I gave my two weeks' notice.  During that time I requested a specific day off to attend a concert in another city.  It wasn't a big deal since it wasn't a day I normally worked anyway, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't scheduled anway. 

Then another employee requested the same day off after I did, it still wasn't a big deal since there was enough staff to work that day, but she flew into a rage and told me I couldn't have the day off.  This was after I had given my notice!  I had meekly put up with that woman's crap for a year and a half, and I had had it. During her tirade, she demanded to know when my last day was.  I said "TODAY!!"  (even though I still had a week and a half to go).  Then I stormed out to my car.  Then I remembered that I had brought one of our cats in for a checkup that day and I had to walk back in to get him, which took a little of the air out of my flounce...  :P
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: hjaye on February 07, 2014, 03:01:28 PM
Years ago, when DS1 was a baby, I worked at a nursing home.  I am not a nurse, I worked in another capacity.  When I first got the job, I loved it, the administrator was wonderful, staff was great, the residents were well taken care of.  Then, new owners came in, had inexperienced administrator, staff went to heck, not so great place anymore, for employees or residents.

SO---it was somehow determined, scientifically, that our area would experience an earthquake.  Earthquakes aren't unheard of here, but not super common either.  The owners ordered everyone, that if the earthquake happened, we were to come in to work immediately!!  No excuses!! 

I thought, yeah, like I'm going to leave my baby, and drive 20+ miles to work, assuming the roads are even passable--not going to happen!!

I ended up getting fired from that job, which motivated me to finish grad school, so turned out great.  After I was gone, the nursing home and a couple of others they owned were cited for multiple offences and had to pay huge fines.  I would love to know what happened to the owners.

BG
I work in IT, and as such, we have Disaster Recovery drills, to ensure in the event of a disaster we are able to rebuild the network, restore all the user accounts with the proper permissions, restore all the databases, applications, and files, and do it in the course of a weekend.  We would actually have DR weeks, where a number of us would travel to the location of our DR site (this particular site was in Philadelphia) where we would simulate a complete meltdown of our infrastructure.

The week before we went, I was discussing some of the procedures with my team lead and manager, and they were both emphasizing how important documentation was.  They wanted it easy to read, with step by step instructions so in their words, if only the janitor were available to rebuild the network, he could follow the documentation and get everything back on line.  He also mentioned though that having me able to get my part of network rebuild done as quickly as possible since it was one of the first things they would need.
He told me that "if a nuclear bomb goes off, I want you to be able to rebuild this in a matter of hours"

Now first off, I was working for a large home builder at the time, and the thought of people clamoring to buy houses in the event of a nuclear disaster just struck me as funny.  I looked at my boss and I told him; "Now I don't want you think I'm not a good loyal employee, but I think it's only fair you know this now.  If I look out my window and see a mushroom cloud rising up over downtown Dallas, my first thought is not going to be Gee..... I need to get to Philadelphia and rebuild the network." 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Klein Bottle on February 07, 2014, 03:34:25 PM
My "little" cousin, (he's well into his thirties now.  Gah!), worked PT as a cook at a chain restaurant in high school.  He had requested off for his senior prom well within the required time, but when the schedules for that week came out, there he was, scheduled to work prom night.  He is a very polite young man, and he immediately went to his manager and asked if there were some mistake.  He was told, no, it was busy prom season and too many of the teens employed there had requested off for that night, and therefore, he was expected to work.  He laughed and quit right there on the spot.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 07, 2014, 03:51:41 PM
Years ago, I worked in the mental health field.  There was a bit of a shake up (rumor was that the hospital was about to lose a major contract, and my program would be the first to go).  All of us are looking for jobs before the axe fell, and a new supervisor was hired to turn the program around.  Now I like the new boss, Hugh, a lot.  He was trying to make severe programmatic changes, all designed to make the clients' experiences more therapeutic, but I left anyway.

After I left, Hugh contacted me and asked if I was still willing to work 2 nights a week and on Saturdays, running recreational activities.  I did this about 6 weeks, until I happened to run into one of my former coworkers.  It seemed that the old staff was completely gone, and we had all been replaced.  My problem was that all the new staff had at the most Community College degrees (old staff had a minimum of BA, if not Master's degrees), but Hugh had fought hard for the new staff to get good salaries.  So, someone (with a lot less education and experience than I had) had a starting salary greater than my final salary, and I was putting in 12 extra hours a week over my new job to "help" them run the program.

I quit that day.  Let the new people put in the long hours (salaried, not hourly), and when the contract was lost, I didn't shed a tear as they all lost their jobs.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 07, 2014, 04:28:32 PM
I tend to think that any company paying me minimum wage and expecting more than minimum effort is demanding of me more loyalty than they deserve. Minimum wage equals minimum effort.

Minimum wage kept me working all through college (or waiting tables for less in the check but at least a chance at enough tips to keep the household income up to EATING & making car payments in the late 1970s).  But it kept me WORKING when I was on the clock, not worrying about what was going on at work when I wasn't on the clock.

I'd sweep, mop, stock shelves, rearrange displays, and wash dishes (fast food - no designated dish washing person or machine in the 1970s - just a sink, disinfectant, soap, rack, and hot water).  I also remember cleaning a few bathrooms as well as serving food (if I was working in fast food)...but I didn't sweat any schedule but my own, called in sick if I was sick, and didn't worry about what was "above my pay grade", as the saying goes.

Once I graduated college & started my first "real job" (one with a career path, medical benefits, a retirement plan, and I was on salary) - then there was a lot more that needed to be thought about whether I was "on the clock" or even whether I was in my office or not.

Loyalty has to work BOTH ways or it isn't true loyalty...too many managers want loyalty from the bottom up but have no idea that they have a reciprocal responsibility....
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Visiting Crazy Town on February 07, 2014, 05:16:07 PM
Years ago, I worked in the mental health field.  There was a bit of a shake up (rumor was that the hospital was about to lose a major contract, and my program would be the first to go).  All of us are looking for jobs before the axe fell, and a new supervisor was hired to turn the program around.  Now I like the new boss, Hugh, a lot.  He was trying to make severe programmatic changes, all designed to make the clients' experiences more therapeutic, but I left anyway.

After I left, Hugh contacted me and asked if I was still willing to work 2 nights a week and on Saturdays, running recreational activities.  I did this about 6 weeks, until I happened to run into one of my former coworkers.  It seemed that the old staff was completely gone, and we had all been replaced.  My problem was that all the new staff had at the most Community College degrees (old staff had a minimum of BA, if not Master's degrees), but Hugh had fought hard for the new staff to get good salaries.  So, someone (with a lot less education and experience than I had) had a starting salary greater than my final salary, and I was putting in 12 extra hours a week over my new job to "help" them run the program.

I quit that day.  Let the new people put in the long hours (salaried, not hourly), and when the contract was lost, I didn't shed a tear as they all lost their jobs.

That is a really spiteful thing to think about a group of people who had nothing to do with what you were hired for and paid.

I agree and it's not there fault that  their manager fought for them to be better paid.  Salary can very a lot depending on when you  were hired
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 07, 2014, 05:33:27 PM
But it did tell her how "highly" her education, skills, and experience were valued (not) - which probably had more to do with her quitting...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on February 07, 2014, 07:41:00 PM
I worked at Target during the holidays after recovering from a horse kick to the chest my sophomore year of college since I was off for the semester anyway. I worked the stock room about 30-35 hours per week until the new year, then got cut to 8-12. A little after Christmas HR put a list on the white board of who they needed to see and it turned out it was all seasonal employees being sacked.

I wasn't on the list, but got called into HR. They asked when my last day was and I told them right before I return to school. They actually had the nerve to ask me to QUIT COLLEGE and continue working there part time for 5 cents over minimum wage. I refused and they asked me to reconsider. Yeah, I'm totally going to leave school for $70/week and no benefits to work in a stock room.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Yarnspinner on February 07, 2014, 10:32:52 PM
But it did tell her how "highly" her education, skills, and experience were valued (not) - which probably had more to do with her quitting...

Thank you Vorfemme.   While I understand the OP may have sounded spiteful towards the other employees, I also understand what it is to have your years of experience in a field undervalued and your education denigrated.  My professional coworkers and I have been told that:

1) trained monkeys could do our jobs
2) that we are nothing but overpaid stock clerks

And over the last six months, Stonecold gave out three " junior promotions" to support staff who claim they are getting their masters' in library science.  Not one of these young women have gotten a BA yet and all of them are making as much or more than their predecessors were.  The three of them act as Stonecold's "assistant directors".   None of them know what they are doing, are way in over their heads and are making huge mistakes that are costing us $$$$$.  They refuse (as per Stonecold) to seek advice from senior staff who know what they are doing.

Consequently, senior staff has backed off and let them sink.  Of course, it's Stonecold, so she is turning a blind eye to the mess they are making.  Still, all three are in for a rude awakening as Stonecold repeatedly tells the Board that she has no intention of giving them "full" promotions and will continue to use them to do her dirty work.  And the senior staff knows that if the girls make big enough mistakes, it will be their heads on the chopping blocks....not Stonecold's. 

Unfortunately, we can't work up a lot of sympathy given the way the three of them have treated coworkers who helped them out when they first started.  It may seem ugly of us, but the truth is, they brought this on themselves.

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Bijou on February 07, 2014, 11:35:37 PM
I worked at a place where the beginning wage was changed but the wages of ongoing employees, who had been faithfully working  there for less than they were worth for a long time did not get a wage raise so that the percentage for seniority would be preserved (the employer raised the entry level wage but did not carry this over into the other wage levels for the job for people who had been long time employees).  The beginning people were making the same or more than the old timers.   >:(
We complained and they did fix it but gads, how smart do you have to be to know this is just lousy treatment for loyalty!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: cicero on February 08, 2014, 12:38:11 AM
I worked at a place where the beginning wage was changed but the wages of ongoing employees, who had been faithfully working  there for less than they were worth for a long time did not get a wage raise so that the percentage for seniority would be preserved (the employer raised the entry level wage but did not carry this over into the other wage levels for the job for people who had been long time employees).  The beginning people were making the same or more than the old timers.   >:(
We complained and they did fix it but gads, how smart do you have to be to know this is just lousy treatment for loyalty!
Yeah, I wonder about those who are supposed to be doing the math. In my previous work place, we had to agree to a salary cut. I don't remember all the details but they cut one day a week ( which also supposedly cut the expenses of running the place), and they cut our salary by a certain percentage. Let's say seven percent. However, since some people were at the very low end of the salary base, they decided that in order to be fair, those making under 1000$ a month will not lose any pay and from 1001$ they get cut by seven percent. So we ( a few smart people) immediately said that doesn't make sense and they should make the cut rated ( e.g.,, for the first 1000$ zero cut, from 1001-3000 x%, for the next 3001-5000 y% and so on) because what happened here is that people who managed to make a little bit more than the minimum would not be taking home less than those making min wage. So the 1000$ people would be taking home 1000$ and the 1001$ people would be taking home 930$.  Brilliant solution.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Yarnspinner on February 08, 2014, 12:54:20 AM
But it did tell her how "highly" her education, skills, and experience were valued (not) - which probably had more to do with her quitting...

Thank you Vorfemme.   While I understand the OP may have sounded spiteful towards the other employees, I also understand what it is to have your years of experience in a field undervalued and your education denigrated.  My professional coworkers and I have been told that:

1) trained monkeys could do our jobs
2) that we are nothing but overpaid stock clerks

And over the last six months, Stonecold gave out three " junior promotions" to support staff who claim they are getting their masters' in library science.  Not one of these young women have gotten a BA yet and all of them are making as much or more than their predecessors were.  The three of them act as Stonecold's "assistant directors".   None of them know what they are doing, are way in over their heads and are making huge mistakes that are costing us $$$$$.  They refuse (as per Stonecold) to seek advice from senior staff who know what they are doing.

Consequently, senior staff has backed off and let them sink.  Of course, it's Stonecold, so she is turning a blind eye to the mess they are making.  Still, all three are in for a rude awakening as Stonecold repeatedly tells the Board that she has no intention of giving them "full" promotions and will continue to use them to do her dirty work.  And the senior staff knows that if the girls make big enough mistakes, it will be their heads on the chopping blocks....not Stonecold's. 

Unfortunately, we can't work up a lot of sympathy given the way the three of them have treated coworkers who helped them out when they first started.  It may seem ugly of us, but the truth is, they brought this on themselves.

Pierrotlunaire0 gave no indication that the new employees had treated her badly. I'm sorry that the junior staff at your job have treated you badly. As I recall, it's been several years since Stonecold was hired and started giving you problems at work. It's surprising, after everything you've told us, that she is still employed. Is it possible that her ideas are actually working and that the senior staff who are so opposed to her methods are more likely just opposed to change?



You are right; Pierre's situation was different from mine in that respect.  As for the rest of it, I cannot come up with a cogent and respectful response.  Anything I could say in response to the last part of that paragraph would get the thread closed and me banned.  So let's just go back to the loyalty stories.   


Modified again because I left part of one of my earlier efforts to respond in here.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 08, 2014, 08:23:42 AM
From how long Yarnspinner has been posting about Stonecold - we can only conclude that she has photos of important people in compromising positions and they have been hidden in very safe places where there is no way for anyone to get to them & destroy them without Stonecold cooperating.

Either that or she's the reincarnation of P. T. Barnum & nobody wants to admit that they followed the signs to see the exhibit of the egress, not realizing that that was the "exit"...

Because she has held onto that position for a while - while pulling stunts that would get MOST people recognized as having more issues than National Geographic (well, she might have culled all the earlier National Geographics from the library archives when she had a bunch of "old stuff" thrown out) - so there may only be five or six issues on hand.....(the previous is intended as a joke - since I don't know of many magazines with more archived issues than the National Geographic).
Title: Re: Unwarranted Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on February 08, 2014, 09:34:26 AM
At the worst of the recession, the large corporation I worked for cut salaries by 15% to avoid layoffs.  Employees accepted this decision.  Within a year, there was a massive layoff, and it was brutal. About 10% of employees were let go, regardless of experience, accomplishments, or business needs.  The company paid a large sum to a consultant group to select the doomed employees, and the primary consideration was that the selection was random enough that no group (race, age, gender, etc) could sue for discrimination.

One person in my already understaffed group was dismissed.  This was traumatic for everyone, and let us all know that no amount of hard work could save us from the company's whims. The laid-off person was rehired two years later, at a starting position/salary. 

Employee morale has vanished.  The company is now doing what it can to get well-paid employees to leave voluntarily.  Jobs are being outsourced.  Experienced employees are expected to train and help the inexperienced newcomers.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nutraxfornerves on February 08, 2014, 09:52:52 AM
I was working for a government agency involved in environmental protection. As happens with such agencies, there was an election and the newly elected executive replaced the agency head & a few top managers with new political appointees. Everyone else was civil service and kept their jobs. The new appointees were, shall we say, idea people rather than good managers.

One of my favorite stories was hearing that the civil service staff who worked directly for New Agency Head were told they could leave early on Christmas Eve--at 5 PM. Agency Head never did figure out why, if he was willing to work 10 hours every day, the rest of his staff weren't loyal enough to the program to also want to do so. These staff were salaried, not hourly, so could not get overtime.

However, the best was a bright idea that fortunately did not go anywhere. One of the top managers had a great suggestion--they would create an environmental "loyalty oath" for all employees to sign. It would contain things like "I promise to recycle" and "I promise to use 'green' appliances." There would even be a pledge to participate in agency-sponsored environmental activities. What a great example to set for the community at large! Great publicity! Everyone will love it!

Well, the personnel experts did not love it, explaining how civil service law did not allow you to dictate employee's personal lives. The lawyers did not love it, explaining that the employee unions would have a field say with grievances and possible lawsuits. The media relations staff also did not love it, explaining that, no, it would not be great publicity, and the media would greet it with scorn at best.

The idea was scrapped, but not before word leaked out to staff, who just laughed.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Black Delphinium on February 08, 2014, 10:06:39 AM
I actually had a nightmare about losing my job last night.

Less than a month after being told that job security was "not an issue" management is telling us that they are going to seriously be cracking down on employees who don't meet Corporate's "minimum of 1 credit card application per shift" goal.

I am trying to be cool about it, but part of me is a seething ball of resentment over it.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on February 08, 2014, 11:47:06 AM
  I could see doing this for the folks involved in patient care like nurses, CNA's and such but if our department is so "useless" than why did we have to risk our necks to get there?  ::)
Not to defend any employer's labeling a group of workers as 'useless'...but you would be very useful in comforting frightened residents. I worked at a nursing home, and shortly after I left work there was a tornado. I went back after the tornado, because I knew there would be lots of things to do, from moving residents back upstairs, giving them dinner and helping them get ready for bedtime- by the time the 'all clear' was sounded, dinner was already an hour late. I still feel badly about how we concentrated on the physical needs and there wasn't anyone who could sit and talk with the residents.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: doodlemor on February 08, 2014, 12:15:02 PM
From how long Yarnspinner has been posting about Stonecold - we can only conclude that she has photos of important people in compromising positions and they have been hidden in very safe places where there is no way for anyone to get to them & destroy them without Stonecold cooperating.

That idea is not entirely outlandish.  We had several employees where I worked who just plain goofed off and didn't do their jobs properly.  Their behavior was entitled, and the person in charge - big boss - let them get away with it.  Some of the bad practices were even safety issues.

One day the big boss, was arrested for soliciting an undercover cop in a public place.  Unfortunately for him, he was also in a company vehicle at the time.  The cops had iron clad evidence, and big boss lost his job.  The shirkers worked a little better for the new guy, and then retired. 

I'm sure that the shirkers had information on the big boss - it's the only explanation that makes sense.  The behavior of the shirkers was incredibly egregious.  The big boss followed normal procedures with the rest of us, and the place fortunately ran smoothly except for the shirkers. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on February 08, 2014, 01:04:51 PM
My company seems to have a policy of making the working environment as unpleasant as they can get away with.  It truly seems that they are consciously demonstrating how little the employees are valued.

One time it was decided that cubicle size would be halved.  A lot of money was spent to replace cubicles with smaller ones.  Employees were forced to sign a form stating that we understood the reason for this.

The extra cubicles were still vacant when my group moved eight years later.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 09, 2014, 03:00:17 PM
  I could see doing this for the folks involved in patient care like nurses, CNA's and such but if our department is so "useless" than why did we have to risk our necks to get there?  ::)
Not to defend any employer's labeling a group of workers as 'useless'...but you would be very useful in comforting frightened residents. I worked at a nursing home, and shortly after I left work there was a tornado. I went back after the tornado, because I knew there would be lots of things to do, from moving residents back upstairs, giving them dinner and helping them get ready for bedtime- by the time the 'all clear' was sounded, dinner was already an hour late. I still feel badly about how we concentrated on the physical needs and there wasn't anyone who could sit and talk with the residents.

Well thing is, I liked the residents and had a really good rapport with most of them, especially the regulars that came down to most events.  I did enjoy the interaction a lot as I've always enjoyed talking to senior citizens.   It was the attitude of the management I didn't particularly care for.  The cognitive and lucid residents didn't care much for them, either, nor did their families.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MOM21SON on February 09, 2014, 03:49:49 PM
I actually had a nightmare about losing my job last night.

Less than a month after being told that job security was "not an issue" management is telling us that they are going to seriously be cracking down on employees who don't meet Corporate's "minimum of 1 credit card application per shift" goal.

I am trying to be cool about it, but part of me is a seething ball of resentment over it.

I have recently stopped going to a retail store here because of this policy.  I think its terrible that they expect employees to harass people to apply for their store credit card.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nuit93 on February 09, 2014, 10:06:55 PM
I actually had a nightmare about losing my job last night.

Less than a month after being told that job security was "not an issue" management is telling us that they are going to seriously be cracking down on employees who don't meet Corporate's "minimum of 1 credit card application per shift" goal.

I am trying to be cool about it, but part of me is a seething ball of resentment over it.

Reminds me of my time working in a department store.  They only enforced that rule if you'd been there long enough to make the maximum pay--those folks were always the first to go so they could replace them with minimum wage new hires.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 09, 2014, 10:14:52 PM
A fbook friend works at Target and was surprised (or so it seemed) that they were backing off pushing the cashiers to push the cards following the big problem they had recently. 

I wasn't all that surprised honestly and thought it was smart of them to back off considering I can't imagine many folks would be clamoring to sign up for their debit or credit card shortly after that all hit the news and I'd be disappointed if they did penalize clerks for not being able to get a sign up/day under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 10, 2014, 07:59:00 AM
Years ago, I worked in the mental health field.  There was a bit of a shake up (rumor was that the hospital was about to lose a major contract, and my program would be the first to go).  All of us are looking for jobs before the axe fell, and a new supervisor was hired to turn the program around.  Now I like the new boss, Hugh, a lot.  He was trying to make severe programmatic changes, all designed to make the clients' experiences more therapeutic, but I left anyway.

After I left, Hugh contacted me and asked if I was still willing to work 2 nights a week and on Saturdays, running recreational activities.  I did this about 6 weeks, until I happened to run into one of my former coworkers.  It seemed that the old staff was completely gone, and we had all been replaced.  My problem was that all the new staff had at the most Community College degrees (old staff had a minimum of BA, if not Master's degrees), but Hugh had fought hard for the new staff to get good salaries.  So, someone (with a lot less education and experience than I had) had a starting salary greater than my final salary, and I was putting in 12 extra hours a week over my new job to "help" them run the program.

I quit that day.  Let the new people put in the long hours (salaried, not hourly), and when the contract was lost, I didn't shed a tear as they all lost their jobs.

That is a really spiteful thing to think about a group of people who had nothing to do with what you were hired for and paid.

I agree and it's not there fault that  their manager fought for them to be better paid.  Salary can very a lot depending on when you  were hired

I was also never informed that the others were making a lot more money than I was.  Like I said, 12 hours a week on top of my 40 hour a week job is a lot of work.  I thought it was great that Hugh had managed to get them better salaries, but I thought that since I was really doing him a huge favor, he should have given me some consideration.  Also, in the hospital structure, it was supposed to be tied to your education and experience.  Plus, I am not angry at the workers, I was and am angry at the hospital.  If there were standards for certain wages, then how come Hugh was able to work around it?  I also blamed Hugh's predecessor in that he obviously was not willing to fight for us.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: artk2002 on February 10, 2014, 12:04:36 PM
Not me, but a colleague.

Some background: There is a very Bad Boss in my small company. He's hired incompetent people (the latest was fired last week after a year of "performance plans" -- hired over the objections of the rest of the staff, BTW.) He's micro-managed some projects while ignoring essential things (we lost a week of work because he hadn't renewed some software licenses -- licenses that we knew a year ago would expire.) People have quit over his mistreatment of them. He's a peer to me and I've had to clean up a number of his messes (c.f. software licenses.)

Further background: Anybody who has worked as a systems administrator knows what a thankless job it is. If things are going well, nobody knows that you exist. If things go wrong, then you are the wost person in the world. In a small company, it's even worse. We had one SA who worked 6- and 7-day weeks and was on call the rest of the time, making it a 24x7 job. Said Bad Boss hired a consultant to "help", but all of a sudden all information for the system admin was being filtered through the consultant. The SA knew that his days were numbered (he'd butted heads with Bad Boss a few times earlier over the micro-management.)

On Christmas Eve, the SA asked for the afternoon off. Bad Boss denied it because he insisted that the SA get some systems up and running for an off-shore development team (one that doesn't take time off at Christmas.) There was no need for the rush (partly caused by Bad Boss' incompetence in any case) because the off-shore team had plenty of other things that they could do to keep busy.  This was purely Bad Boss' ego in play. So the system admin quit on the spot, leaving us far worse off than losing an afternoon's work would have.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on February 10, 2014, 12:19:09 PM
I technically graduated from high school in the fall, but walked with the rest of my class in May. During the in between time I'd taken a little second job at a tiny coffee shop right between my school and my home, it was a few nights a week, I mostly did it for free coffee and tip money.

The owner of the coffee shop employed a good amount of graduating seniors, all from the same high school, and when graduation night started coming up we all were asking for the day off. About two weeks before I'd had my ceremony for my AA degree and my boss had happily given me the night off and wished me well (even gave me a congrats card!), so I assumed it'd be no issue for my HS graduation. So when the new schedule came out I was surprised to see I was working grad night. On my break I went and talked to her and explained I would not be working that night, I was going to my graduation. She told me "You already graduated, this is just a ceremony", I said yes, but it was an important ceremony and I was going to which she responded "Well, you're a grown up now, and your work comes first. Everyone else wants the night off, so you gotta work it. You need to show your loyalty to me and to this company". I walked away from her, grabbed my bag and went to the bathroom to change out of my uniform shirt. Which I handed back to her and said "I quit, my loyalty  is to my family who have waited 13 years to watch me walk across that stage" and walked out. They went out of business a few months later so guess no one was all that loyal.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: BeagleMommy on February 11, 2014, 03:03:41 PM
The HQ for DH's company is in New Jersey (we are in PA).  During the aftermath of Hurrican Sandy one of the senior managers called DH's coworker and told her that generators and gasoline were in short supply.  It had been all over the news so we knew all about it.

Well, Manager asks the coworker to go to the local Home Depot and buy two generators and to fill up about 30 gas cans so he can power his home, beachhouse and 3 cars.  Oh, but he can't drive to PA to get them because the roads are impassable so she'll have to bring them to him.

Did I mention this coworker drives a Toyota Celica?

She was seriously about to do this  ::) when DH said to her "If the roads out of New Jersey are impassable what makes you think the roads INTO New Jersey are clear?"

Manager had to find his own generators and gas.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on February 11, 2014, 03:19:38 PM
So when the new schedule came out I was surprised to see I was working grad night. On my break I went and talked to her and explained I would not be working that night, I was going to my graduation. She told me "You already graduated, this is just a ceremony", I said yes, but it was an important ceremony and I was going to which she responded "Well, you're a grown up now, and your work comes first. Everyone else wants the night off, so you gotta work it. You need to show your loyalty to me and to this company". I walked away from her, grabbed my bag and went to the bathroom to change out of my uniform shirt. Which I handed back to her and said "I quit, my loyalty  is to my family who have waited 13 years to watch me walk across that stage" and walked out.

You're my hero!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 11, 2014, 05:34:26 PM
The HQ for DH's company is in New Jersey (we are in PA).  During the aftermath of Hurrican Sandy one of the senior managers called DH's coworker and told her that generators and gasoline were in short supply.  It had been all over the news so we knew all about it.

Well, Manager asks the coworker to go to the local Home Depot and buy two generators and to fill up about 30 gas cans so he can power his home, beachhouse and 3 cars.  Oh, but he can't drive to PA to get them because the roads are impassable so she'll have to bring them to him.

Did I mention this coworker drives a Toyota Celica?

She was seriously about to do this  ::) when DH said to her "If the roads out of New Jersey are impassable what makes you think the roads INTO New Jersey are clear?"

Manager had to find his own generators and gas.

So the generators and gasoline are in short supply but he absolutely needs them to power a beach house and 3 cars?  ::)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 11, 2014, 06:32:56 PM
Two generators and that much gasoline are going to be VERY EXPENSIVE (we bought one generator and a lot of gas cans & the fuel to run the generator after Hurricane Ike - it was NOT cheap). 

How is getting the money to her for this shopping trip AND a four wheel drive vehicle (or horse drawn sleigh) large enough to take it to his beach house?  He's not getting the money to  her in advance?  Laugh hysterically - whether before or after hanging up the phone depends on whether or not keeping that job with a crazy boss is a high priority.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Mary Lennox on February 11, 2014, 07:41:47 PM
I used to have boss who, at her worst, fired a bunch of people for getting together outside of work. She would make a big deal about being "a family" and everybody getting along, but when we would get along outside of her control, she would get jealous and overingly critical of us when we were at work.

We were told different reasons why they are fired, but the timing was just so obvious (and they were really good workers too!). It was like she couldn't stand not being part of our social life as well as our work life.

I'd heard stories but I couldn't believe she was that vindictive until I saw it for myself. Needless to say, I got out quick and never looked back! (And I still keep in touch with those friends!)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on February 11, 2014, 09:56:15 PM
I used to have boss who, at her worst, fired a bunch of people for getting together outside of work.
What the…? No. I hope someone reported to her, because that's a million kinds of wrong.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Allyson on February 12, 2014, 12:48:46 AM
This is nothing to do with work, but someone expecting loyalty...I have an 'acquaintance friend' who seems to expect a friendship-loyalty way too quickly. It's like she's watched all the shows with the super tight groups of friends, and wants that, so tries to force it on casual acquaintances, then gets upset when people don't act the way she wants them to.

For instance, she informed me like she was doing me a favor that I was coming to something she was organizing, that would've been a bit of a time commitment. I said I'd have to think about it, as my schedule was pretty busy, and could I get back to her, and she was quite upset by the fact that I wasn't doing it. She made flat statements like "you're going to do this" in the way that "charmingly bossy" characters on TV do, but really doesn't translate well in real life.

She also was unhappy that people hadn't 'warned' her about a guy she'd briefly dated; we barely knew her at the time, and the rumours about him were not all that unsavory, certainly nothing abusive.

I generally like her, and understand her wanting friends, but I wish I had a way to explain to her that this kind of behaviour is going to have the opposite effect than what she wants...:(
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Bethalize on February 12, 2014, 02:37:42 AM
It's like she's watched all the shows with the super tight groups of friends, and wants that,

Urgh. I had to explain to a previous friend that the reason TV shows have these super tight groups of friends is because being that close for so long creates drama. They need drama because they are a TV show. I don't need drama because I am not on a TV show. Space is healthy and normal. Being in each other's pockets is not.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 11:40:02 AM
It's like she's watched all the shows with the super tight groups of friends, and wants that,

Urgh. I had to explain to a previous friend that the reason TV shows have these super tight groups of friends is because being that close for so long creates drama. They need drama because they are a TV show. I don't need drama because I am not on a TV show. Space is healthy and normal. Being in each other's pockets is not.


Well, it's because the shows are FAKE. And because the people aren't real, and don't need to do things like "see other non-show characters" or "get some groceries" or "go to the dentist" or "go to Cousin Susie's bithday party" (because Cousin Susie is not on the show).
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: BarensMom on February 12, 2014, 11:50:26 AM
The HQ for DH's company is in New Jersey (we are in PA).  During the aftermath of Hurrican Sandy one of the senior managers called DH's coworker and told her that generators and gasoline were in short supply.  It had been all over the news so we knew all about it.

Well, Manager asks the coworker to go to the local Home Depot and buy two generators and to fill up about 30 gas cans so he can power his home, beachhouse and 3 cars.  Oh, but he can't drive to PA to get them because the roads are impassable so she'll have to bring them to him.

Did I mention this coworker drives a Toyota Celica?

She was seriously about to do this  ::) when DH said to her "If the roads out of New Jersey are impassable what makes you think the roads INTO New Jersey are clear?"

Manager had to find his own generators and gas.

So the generators and gasoline are in short supply but he absolutely needs them to power a beach house and 3 cars?  ::)

I could totally see the female dog I used to work with demanding that of me. 

Whenever there was a high wind advisory on the Richmond-San Rafael Bridge, she would call and demand that I take whatever she wanted to work on to her house, because "she couldn't drive on the bridge."  Even my supervisor saw the lunacy of me driving across the same bridge in high winds.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Kari on February 12, 2014, 12:03:14 PM
Last year my workplace made everyone stay late and work a holiday and weekends to get ahead just because the owner wanted us to, not for any particular reason. We were given a vague promise of "compensation" for complying. Actually, we were voluntold to work extra hours all week, and pressured into doing so, all with the dangling carrot of "compensation" ahead. A year later, still no "compensation" has come our way for doing this. And the company is shocked -- SHOCKED -- that everyone clocks out the second their eight-hour workday is up and no one will work free overtime anymore.

They're also flummoxed as to why we no longer are so far ahead in our work. While no one's breathed a word of a work slowdown, deflated morale has obviously taken its toll.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on February 12, 2014, 12:15:26 PM
So when the new schedule came out I was surprised to see I was working grad night. On my break I went and talked to her and explained I would not be working that night, I was going to my graduation. She told me "You already graduated, this is just a ceremony", I said yes, but it was an important ceremony and I was going to which she responded "Well, you're a grown up now, and your work comes first. Everyone else wants the night off, so you gotta work it. You need to show your loyalty to me and to this company". I walked away from her, grabbed my bag and went to the bathroom to change out of my uniform shirt. Which I handed back to her and said "I quit, my loyalty  is to my family who have waited 13 years to watch me walk across that stage" and walked out.

You're my hero!

A lot of it was my mom. She wouldn't even let me graduate in the fall in less I had a guarantee (she made my principal give it to her in writing) that I'd be able to walk with my class in May. She didn't graduate (she got her GED) and neither did my grandma, so it was a big deal that I walk. She gave me whole speech about "I got you to school everyday for 13 years, I helped you with your homework, I got you to choir practices, girl scouts, speech and debate, I bought candy, I helped you build a castle, some kind of bridge thing, and a million other craft projects, I am going to watch you walk across a stage in a cap and gown. That is my payoff!", so there was no not going to graduation. I knew a few kids who weren't gonna go because it "wasn't important", I did not understand this idea.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 12, 2014, 12:37:15 PM
Last year my workplace made everyone stay late and work a holiday and weekends to get ahead just because the owner wanted us to, not for any particular reason. We were given a vague promise of "compensation" for complying. Actually, we were voluntold to work extra hours all week, and pressured into doing so, all with the dangling carrot of "compensation" ahead. A year later, still no "compensation" has come our way for doing this. And the company is shocked -- SHOCKED -- that everyone clocks out the second their eight-hour workday is up and no one will work free overtime anymore.

They're also flummoxed as to why we no longer are so far ahead in our work. While no one's breathed a word of a work slowdown, deflated morale has obviously taken its toll.

Years ago, the president of the company I worked for tried to get us to come in on a Saturday to "clean."  He liked having absolutely nothing on his desk at any time, and he wanted all desks to look like his.  Someone did let him know that labor laws would require that 4 hours of work on a Saturday be compensated at overtime rates.  So his solution was to throw a party!  4 hours of completely denuding desks of all paper, and we would get to eat free pizza!

No one showed up.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 12:48:23 PM
My mom once got in trouble (state employee) for suggesting her team come clean the bathroom on the weekend.

She and they were really frustrated because they felt the bathroom was disgusting, and they kept sending in cleaning requests, which were supposedly "met," and they said to each other, "that's not clean!"

So Mom said, "I'm coming in this weekend, and I'm going to clean it the way it SHOULD be, so I can SHOW them!!! I'd love some help." Two of the ladies did.

Mom said, "I really didn't think about it as required, but I got in trouble for it. But it was a nice feeling to stand there and point to the grime-less surfaces and edges, and say 'THIS is clean!' And I will say, they cleaned it properly ever after." I think the fact that they'd been moved to do this meant that their supervisors said to the cleaning people, "Do -your- job right!"
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: wolfie on February 12, 2014, 12:54:33 PM
I have a friend of expects to be invited to everything anyone else is doing, but doesn't feel the need to include everyone else in her events.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 12, 2014, 01:09:26 PM
Not work related, but I did get in an argument with my mother when I expressed an interest in moving to the Midwest.  Now this was not even a plan, simply an interest.  But you really couldn't say "I'd like to visit X someday" cause she'd assume you were planning on going tomorrow and would lecture you at length on what a bad idea it was, etc.

Anyway, as predicted when she found out, she went nuts and insisted we had to stay close to them because they  were our "support system".  ::)  Support to them meaning "We'll support you so long as you do everything we think you should be doing."

Well we didn't move to the Midwest because DH didn't want to move far from his parents who do deserve our loyalty cause they are good people, but we did move about 60 miles west within the same state to a smaller town and that suits us. :)

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on February 12, 2014, 01:14:53 PM
I was expected to help fetch the work vehicle I was driving during our delightful southern Snowpacolypse that got stuck in a ditch and broken into overnight the day after the storm. The state was still on lockdown (don't go out unless it's an emergency, abandoned vehicles everywhere which are why I got stuck where I was) and I had walked 8 miles in the snow with bronchitis before being picked up by an off-duty cop to get back to work the previous afternoon.

My boss called at 9:30 am after I had gotten home at 8:30 pm and told me that he was picking me up to drive 12 miles down icy roads to fetch it. I very politely told him I was sick and no way in heck was I going out there. 

Today again he's upset no one will/can go to the office to take care of some important things and he has to do it himself. He owns 2 4WD vehicles and the business. This is all on him.
Title: Re: Unwarranted Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Seraphia on February 12, 2014, 01:40:40 PM
It's like she's watched all the shows with the super tight groups of friends, and wants that,

Urgh. I had to explain to a previous friend that the reason TV shows have these super tight groups of friends is because being that close for so long creates drama. They need drama because they are a TV show. I don't need drama because I am not on a TV show. Space is healthy and normal. Being in each other's pockets is not.

Maybe this should go in the "Things you can't believe you had to tell another adult" thread, but I had to explain to someone that TV, being, well, not real, meant that just because a woman on a TV show found [thing] attractive and deeply romantic did not mean that his GF would automatically also find [thing] attractive and deeply romantic.

He was all put out because: "I walked sooooooo far and did [thing] for her and she didn't do anything besides say 'thanks'!" Sorry dude, but the only time doing [thing] gets the GF to leap into your arms and cover you with tearful kisses is when it's been written by Nicholas Sparks and is accompanied by a soundtrack. He's a good person, but he sort of assumes that everything on TV is a little closer to the real world than it truly is.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Kari on February 12, 2014, 02:23:02 PM
Had an ex who, after the breakup, tried to get back together with me and another of his exes at the same time. He'd get upset if I went somewhere cool and didn't invite him, even if I was just going by myself. He'd go through periods of not talking to me because it was "too hard" but if I wanted space from him, he'd get upset. He once snubbed me in public and then texted me passive-aggressive remarks on how I didn't say hello.  His final hissy fit came when he got some bad news and I went out to eat instead of immediately dashing off to a location where he'd eventually be, ready with open arms to comfort him when he arrived. His exit flounce was the best thing that happened to me and severed the remaining strings of a very dysfunctional relationship.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Yarnspinner on February 12, 2014, 04:33:42 PM
Friendship loyalty--I was the bad guy here.  At my first real job (oh so many years ago) I had a coworker who quickly became a friend.  But we worked in different departments and only saw each other for lunch. 

She got a new job in another state.  She handed me a form that she billed as a character reference. It was clearly something asking for an assessment of her job skills by a supervisor....which I was not.  I showed her that and she took it back cheerfully enough....but refused to speak to me from that day on and told coworkers I was unsupportive and unhelpful.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: jedikaiti on February 12, 2014, 04:48:45 PM
I am failing to see you as the bad guy for not committing an act of fraud on her behalf.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 12, 2014, 04:59:53 PM
It's like she's watched all the shows with the super tight groups of friends, and wants that,

Urgh. I had to explain to a previous friend that the reason TV shows have these super tight groups of friends is because being that close for so long creates drama. They need drama because they are a TV show. I don't need drama because I am not on a TV show. Space is healthy and normal. Being in each other's pockets is not.

Maybe this should go in the "Things you can't believe you had to tell another adult" thread, but I had to explain to someone that TV, being, well, not real, meant that just because a woman on a TV show found [thing] attractive and deeply romantic did not mean that his GF would automatically also find [thing] attractive and deeply romantic.

He was all put out because: "I walked sooooooo far and did [thing] for her and she didn't do anything besides say 'thanks'!" Sorry dude, but the only time doing [thing] gets the GF to leap into your arms and cover you with tearful kisses is when it's been written by Nicholas Sparks and is accompanied by a soundtrack. He's a good person, but he sort of assumes that everything on TV is a little closer to the real world than it truly is.

Reminds me of the stories about the (fictional) technique called the "Venus Butterfly" on LA Law, lo, these many years ago (late 1980s, I think - maybe as late as 1990, based on where we were living). 

Apparently a LOT of librarians (pre-internet or very, very early internet days) got asked for the copies of the various advice books that had the instructions on how the Venus Butterfly was done, because it was supposed to be infallible.

After all, the WRITERS on LA Law wrote it that way!  So, how is it done?

It's not just the aliens in Galaxy Quest who had no real grasp of or understanding of the concept of "not-true" tales being told for purely entertainment purposes - either it is the truth or it is a lie and if it is on TV, the internet, in a book, etc. (fill in the blank) then it can't be made up for purely entertainment purposes!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: 2littlemonkeys on February 12, 2014, 05:16:48 PM
I have two for my first job.  I was underpaid and worked to death.  We were given one week of vacation per year but actually getting approval was hard.  Or you would get it approved and then some 'emergency' would come along and you'd have to cancel with the promise that you could reschedule. (snort)

So I was able to take a week off and went to visit my parents in another state.  I got a call on my cell from work.  Apparently, the Boss's Pet messed something up and Boss demanded I come in ASAP to fix it.   I told them I was unable to do that because I was hours away on vacation.  He told me I was a terrible employee and not a team player and hung up on me.  BTW, there was absolutely no reason the Boss's Pet couldn't have fixed the problem himself.  He just thought it was beneath him to do so. 

Things were a little frosty after that.

The second one is on my last day in the office.  I'd quit for greener pastures and had decided to take my unused vacation before I started my new job.

Boss approached me as I was leaving and said something like, "Okay, so we'll call you next week to set up time for you to come in and help out until we get the new person trained."  (Something I had NEVER agreed to or even offered to do.)

HAHAHAHA!  I gleefully told him I was going to be out of the country for a week and then starting my new job and that simply wasn't possible. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Mary Lennox on February 12, 2014, 08:06:35 PM
I used to have boss who, at her worst, fired a bunch of people for getting together outside of work.
What the…? No. I hope someone reported to her, because that's a million kinds of wrong.

Oh yes. There were a number of us who filed complaints against her with the employment/labour ministry for missing wages, unfair dismissal etc. It was just over a year ago and I think it's pretty much been a 100% turn over since then. As far as I know she's still pulling the same stunts but I refuse to go near that place to confirm because it raises my blood pressure too much just thinking about her.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on February 13, 2014, 11:56:00 AM
I used to have boss who, at her worst, fired a bunch of people for getting together outside of work.
What the…? No. I hope someone reported to her, because that's a million kinds of wrong.

Oh yes. There were a number of us who filed complaints against her with the employment/labour ministry for missing wages, unfair dismissal etc. It was just over a year ago and I think it's pretty much been a 100% turn over since then. As far as I know she's still pulling the same stunts but I refuse to go near that place to confirm because it raises my blood pressure too much just thinking about her.

I'm sorry to hear that. How is she even still employed? She needs to be served a hot dish of karma.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on February 13, 2014, 03:35:40 PM
My mother-in-law.   When my husband and I first started dating, we went out for dinner with my future MIL and other future in-laws.  As the dinner was winding down, one of my husband's sisters asked her mother what she had planned for the rest of the evening.    Future MIL said blithely "Oh, I'm going to go to the mall.  I don't have a car, though, so (Son's Name) and Shalamar are going to drive me, wait for me while I do some shopping, and then drive me home."  This was news to us. 

Ehell would have been proud of me.  I said politely "I'm sorry; that won't be possible."  "Why not?"  "We already have plans."  Our plans consisted of going to the library and then going home to watch TV, but I didn't tell her that.

Now, if she'd asked us to drive her to the mall, that might have been a different story.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pixel dust on February 13, 2014, 06:44:54 PM
I worked at a place where the beginning wage was changed but the wages of ongoing employees, who had been faithfully working  there for less than they were worth for a long time did not get a wage raise so that the percentage for seniority would be preserved (the employer raised the entry level wage but did not carry this over into the other wage levels for the job for people who had been long time employees).  The beginning people were making the same or more than the old timers.   >:(
We complained and they did fix it but gads, how smart do you have to be to know this is just lousy treatment for loyalty!

My husband had this issue and it was the final straw that broke the camel's back and got him out of his job (which ends tomorrow - yay!). He recommended a friend for a position in his company - same contracting company, same position, same contract, etc. as what he (hubs) was currently holding. The friend was offered a job with the contractor but the contract he was applying for didn't accept him so he didn't get the job. But some how my hubs found out that his contract company offered his friend $20k OVER what my hubs was making as a loyal 5+ year employee! Thankfully hubs has friends in other contract companies and on other contracts so he was able to find a much better fit (who offered him a MUCH higher salary than he's making right now!) and he starts next Tuesday!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on February 13, 2014, 07:25:09 PM
At one job, I was offered a promotion and took it. I became a supervisor and got a raise.

The owners of the company (it was a small family owned company) were asked by a friend, as favor, to hire his son for a year, while the son studied for a grad school exam. So basically make up a job for him and pay him for a year. He was fresh out of college. I was 15 years out of college and had a Master's degree.

Imagine my surprise when I found out that he was getting paid $4,000 more a year than I was.

Part of it was a big change in the job market. When I had been hired 7 years previously, the economy was bad and it was hard to get a job. When the kid was hired, things had changed and it was hard to find qualified employees, and as a result, salaries were higher.

While I debated for a week on how to handle this situation, the owner called me in and gave me a $5,000 raise.

And I earned every single penny of it, supervising that kid, who was one of the most incompetent human beings I have ever encountered. I spent that year re-doing pretty much everything he did, to get it to meet minimal quality standards.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 13, 2014, 07:52:36 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on February 13, 2014, 07:57:44 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

But sometimes people tell you their salaries. That's what happened to me. The kid was *complaining* that he was a college grad and only making $XX,XXX for the year. You can't stop people from sharing that sort of information, if they want to.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Black Delphinium on February 13, 2014, 08:05:07 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

But sometimes people tell you their salaries. That's what happened to me. The kid was *complaining* that he was a college grad and only making $XX,XXX for the year. You can't stop people from sharing that sort of information, if they want to.
Or they, like my husband, are "public employees" and their salary is something anyone can look up.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 13, 2014, 08:19:46 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

The company is supposed to keep that confidential, but you can find out from the person themselves or recruiters how much a position is paying.  Also, pod to Black Delphinium
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Amara on February 13, 2014, 08:20:51 PM
Quote
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

Government and higher education are different. Salaries are not secret. A couple of years ago, the college newspaper published the salaries, by name, of every employee there. Public institution, public knowledge.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: artk2002 on February 13, 2014, 09:19:40 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

It usually is, but there's no real legal requirement that it be so. There was a trend a few years ago for more openness about that in corporations. I think that some companies found that being transparent about saleries helped keep things more fair and morale was better.

As others have said, there are plenty of jobs where the salary is public information by law.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: LifeOnPluto on February 13, 2014, 11:58:27 PM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on February 14, 2014, 07:25:22 AM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

But sometimes people tell you their salaries. That's what happened to me. The kid was *complaining* that he was a college grad and only making $XX,XXX for the year. You can't stop people from sharing that sort of information, if they want to.

Or in the case of one of my jobs the lower paid (minimal education) employees literally corner an employee and intimidate him into telling them his salary. And by intimidate I mean 6'3"+ well muscled man with a serious temper vs. 5'8" average Joe. This led to a shouting riot during a meeting with the Big Boss about why people with higher education (BS) get paid more than those with HS diplomas or GEDs and I was worried he was going to get slugged. No exaggeration, I haven't a clue how these people stayed employed, except there was a racial accusation thrown in with the salary "discussion."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 14, 2014, 07:46:25 AM
A dear friend told me that a college roommate laid into her once because friend went home to visit family instead of chaperoning the roommate to a party, after which she found herself pregnant.

 Mind you friend had never said she would chaperone, it was just expected of her so when roommate found out she was pregnant, she put the blame squarely on friend for not babysitting her that night.  ::)

Friend moved out and has lived alone ever since.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MissRose on February 14, 2014, 07:58:36 AM
Regarding salaries: We are not allowed to discuss them.  I am sure that supervisors and managers who have access to such detail are not to disclose the details in public or private settings.  They can tell each person what they make and/or the raise they get in a private setting only.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 14, 2014, 08:15:37 AM
A dear friend told me that a college roommate laid into her once because friend went home to visit family instead of chaperoning the roommate to a party, after which she found herself pregnant.

 Mind you friend had never said she would chaperone, it was just expected of her so when roommate found out she was pregnant, she put the blame squarely on friend for not babysitting her that night.  ::)

Friend moved out and has lived alone ever since.

What - the guy she was obviously with at some point had NONE of the responsibility?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 14, 2014, 09:22:26 AM
Having been the payroll person many years ago, I can tell you the number of people that will blithely divulge their salary is mind boggling.  And this was at a company where the HR policy forbade any one discussing it.  There were many times, I had to maintain a blank expression as I excused myself from the discussion so that my reaction wouldn't confirm or deny the speculation around me.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Thipu1 on February 14, 2014, 09:29:07 AM
Quote
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.

Government and higher education are different. Salaries are not secret. A couple of years ago, the college newspaper published the salaries, by name, of every employee there. Public institution, public knowledge.

Mr. Thipu worked for a state agency.  Along with the salaries of everyone else above a certain level, his salary was published annually in the New York Times. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Winterlight on February 14, 2014, 09:37:00 AM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.

Well, I'd have talked but they wouldn't have liked what I had to say.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on February 14, 2014, 09:51:23 AM
That's one thing I love about my current boss - when she found out that my 81-year-old mother is going to need surgery soon, she said "If you need to get on a plane to be with her, let me know and then just go.  We'll manage."

Back to the topic ... I've mentioned this on another thread.  In his former job, my husband was told that he'd be put on a project that required him to be on-call 24x7.   He was assured that he'd get some awesome perks, however - such as being allowed to wear JEANS to work if he got a late-night call the night before.  Ooo.   He was also told that, if he got a late-night call, he could come in to work late or leave early the following day.  Funny, though - that never worked out.  When he tried to arrive late or leave early, he was told "You can't.  We need you here." 

After six months, he asked when he was going to be relieved of on-call duty, since he'd been told that someone else would take over eventually.  The boss said "Well, we asked around, but no-one wanted to do it, so I guess you're stuck." 

The boss was stunned when my husband quit.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Slartibartfast on February 14, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
 Shortly after I left my library (which was when I got pregnant with Babybartfast), I got a call from the branch director, who had been one of my two bosses (long story, but essentially she was in charge of everything except the main library).  The branch manager at one of the other tiny branches was going to be out on maternity leave for six weeks; would I be willing to cover for her so they didn't have to just close the branch?  Problems: the branch was 45 minutes away from town, adding 1.5 hours of commute to my day.  They only wanted it open four hours a day, so I'd be spending almost as much time commuting as I would be working.  And they were offering a very generous $8.50/hour for this (a job they usually wanted a masters degree for).  Oh, no, they couldn't possibly help out with commute costs or anything.

Let me think - that comes out to less than $5/hour, and that's BEFORE taxes and whatnot.  I really would have considered helping if they had been willing to at least make it minimum wage, but yeah.  NO.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 14, 2014, 12:01:55 PM
A dear friend told me that a college roommate laid into her once because friend went home to visit family instead of chaperoning the roommate to a party, after which she found herself pregnant.

 Mind you friend had never said she would chaperone, it was just expected of her so when roommate found out she was pregnant, she put the blame squarely on friend for not babysitting her that night.  ::)

Friend moved out and has lived alone ever since.

What - the guy she was obviously with at some point had NONE of the responsibility?

Apparently friend was supposed to save her from drinking too much and making a bad decision.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: goldilocks on February 14, 2014, 12:13:07 PM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.

Well, I'd have talked but they wouldn't have liked what I had to say.

In my case, I probably would have wanted to talk about the project, to get my mind off the surgery (as much as possible).  I don't really fault the supervisor for called, but he should have backed off when you didn't immediately agree to talk.

Years ago, I was working a minimum wage job.   I got home from school and found out my father had been diagnosed with cancer that day and was being immediately admitted to the hospital for surgery.   I called my boss and told him I had to take my father to the hospital.  He angrily asked why my mother couldn't take him.  I replied that my mother didn't drive.   So he said - So can't you call a cab?


In his minor defense, I think he thought I was lying.   He did apologize a few days later, apparently when he found out I was telling the truth.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: gmatoy on February 14, 2014, 06:20:48 PM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.

Well, I'd have talked but they wouldn't have liked what I had to say.
[/b]

I just used the bolding to stand in for the missing "like" button!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lady Snowdon on February 14, 2014, 06:34:06 PM
My mom worked for iterations of the same company for over 30 years (one of the big telecoms, so it had about five different names over those 30 years).  She put up with a lot that I'm not sure I'd be willing to put up with - she was on call during my high school and college graduations, for example, and family vacations were often interrupted or put on hold while she took emergency calls.  About 8 years ago, my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and my mom had to take extra time off to deal with his doctor appointments, and generally help him out more and more.  It got to the point two years ago where she applied for FMLA to be with my dad once per week and go to doctor appointments with him.  Because of all she'd done for the company, and how hard she worked to make her absences as non-disruptive as possible, her boss assured her that her job was fine and she had nothing to worry about as a planned restructuring approached.

Then she found out the job she would be offered after the restructuring involved her traveling Monday - Friday every week, and only being home on the weekends.  She told her boss she couldn't do that, due to family health issues.  Her boss said, "Is this about your husband?  Shouldn't you have put him in a care facility by now?  It's not like he really remembers your or anyone else at this point, right?  We don't have any positions for you that are based in ThisCity, so if you don't take this, you'll be let go."  Said boss was stunned when my mom gave her one month notice and complained that she hadn't given him enough time to find her replacement. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Luci on February 14, 2014, 07:46:36 PM
... Her boss said, "Is this about your husband?  Shouldn't you have put him in a care facility by now?  It's not like he really remembers your or anyone else at this point, right?  We don't have any positions for you that are based in ThisCity, so if you don't take this, you'll be let go."  Said boss was stunned when my mom gave her one month notice and complained that she hadn't given him enough time to find her replacement.

This is one of the few times I literally gasped out loud while reading E-Hell. Poor Boss! No, really; the man just doesn't get it. Bully for your mom.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kherbert05 on February 14, 2014, 08:12:20 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.


Mine is posted on my employer's website. My base salary is set by law. Then the school district can add to that to be competitive with other districts.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Outdoor Girl on February 15, 2014, 09:30:20 AM
I've never worked in a private company; I've always worked for government, either municipal or provincial.  Which means I know what all my colleagues make because they are making the same as me, unless they haven't been there for 5 years, yet.  You start at the base amount and get an increase every year, if you've earned it, up to the top of the pay band.

Where I used to work, I originally had a supervisor I liked but she wasn't well liked by management because she would protect her people from their crazy ideas.  She was forced out; they didn't fire her but made things so unpleasant for her that she quit.  We went without a supervisor for quite some time, with the person senior to me somewhat acting in the supervisory role.  I had a great deal of autonomy under the former supervisor, with the ability to make decisions on my own.  Which continued after she left.  Until the person senior to me was promoted to supervisor.  Suddenly, I had to clear absolutely every decision through her.  The junior employees had been used to coming to me with questions and for decisions.  And now, I couldn't help them.  'You'll have to ask Supervisor'.  Except supervisor wasn't around very much.  It made our lives very difficult.  And the fact that Supervisor would please management at the expense of her staff made it even more difficult.

And yet, she was absolutely shocked when I told her I was applying for a position elsewhere in the organization (had to - didn't want to) and even more shocked when I actually left.  She held up my transfer for months by lying to the other supervisor and their manager.  And yet, she never got her comeuppance.  I left the organization altogether within a year after this nonsense.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on February 15, 2014, 11:01:45 AM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MrTango on February 15, 2014, 11:25:44 AM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

I don't think that's always the case, but that can be one indication of unfair practices.  Unless there were other indications, however, I wouldn't use that one policy as an indication of a problem.  I've never held a job where HR policies didn't prohibit us from discussing our pay with other employees.  Of course, that didn't stop us.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MerryCat on February 15, 2014, 11:33:19 AM
A dear friend told me that a college roommate laid into her once because friend went home to visit family instead of chaperoning the roommate to a party, after which she found herself pregnant.

 Mind you friend had never said she would chaperone, it was just expected of her so when roommate found out she was pregnant, she put the blame squarely on friend for not babysitting her that night.  ::)

Friend moved out and has lived alone ever since.

It's weird how many people think it's other people's responsibility to make them live their lives right. I knew a girl who was making a lot of destructive choices over a long distance relationship. Most of us could see he was scamming her, but she ignored anyone who told her so and only listened to people who told her what she wanted to hear. When everything inevitably hit the fan she blamed those same people for the whole mess/ You see, their "bad advice" was the reason her whole life went pear shaped. Not her fault at all.

It's been years now. I sometimes think of her and wonder who she's blaming for her choices these days.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: weeblewobble on February 15, 2014, 11:57:58 AM
I've never worked in a private company; I've always worked for government, either municipal or provincial.  Which means I know what all my colleagues make because they are making the same as me, unless they haven't been there for 5 years, yet.  You start at the base amount and get an increase every year, if you've earned it, up to the top of the pay band.

Where I used to work, I originally had a supervisor I liked but she wasn't well liked by management because she would protect her people from their crazy ideas.  She was forced out; they didn't fire her but made things so unpleasant for her that she quit.  We went without a supervisor for quite some time, with the person senior to me somewhat acting in the supervisory role.  I had a great deal of autonomy under the former supervisor, with the ability to make decisions on my own.  Which continued after she left.  Until the person senior to me was promoted to supervisor.  Suddenly, I had to clear absolutely every decision through her.  The junior employees had been used to coming to me with questions and for decisions.  And now, I couldn't help them.  'You'll have to ask Supervisor'.  Except supervisor wasn't around very much.  It made our lives very difficult.  And the fact that Supervisor would please management at the expense of her staff made it even more difficult.

And yet, she was absolutely shocked when I told her I was applying for a position elsewhere in the organization (had to - didn't want to) and even more shocked when I actually left.  She held up my transfer for months by lying to the other supervisor and their manager.  And yet, she never got her comeuppance.  I left the organization altogether within a year after this nonsense.

I too had a super-micro manager as a boss. Absolutely EVERYTHING had to be signed off by him, from the font we used on publications, to wording on letters, to the color of the paper we printed invoices on.  All of this might not have been so bad, except that we were basically his "side business" to his very busy primary business.  So we would rush to get our work done and then have to wait hours for him to approve it, make whatever changes he suggested, submit the revisions, wait hours for those to be approved, make a second or third round changes, wait for hours, etc.  And he never understood why it took us so long to finish projects.  ::)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 15, 2014, 01:02:29 PM
Do you work with me?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: eltf177 on February 15, 2014, 02:02:03 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

My ex-boss "Scrooge" was exactly like this. And the reason was he _did_ pay new people almost as much as people like me who had been there for years and not gotten a decent raise. The original staff found out and it ended up costing him _all_ his experienced personnel in the space of a few months...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: AmethystAnne on February 15, 2014, 06:26:45 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.


Mine is posted on my employer's website. My base salary is set by law. Then the school district can add to that to be competitive with other districts.

My salary is too. Also all levels of all job positions in the district.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 15, 2014, 06:58:20 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

I don't think that's always the case, but that can be one indication of unfair practices.  Unless there were other indications, however, I wouldn't use that one policy as an indication of a problem.  I've never held a job where HR policies didn't prohibit us from discussing our pay with other employees.  Of course, that didn't stop us.

I have to agree with Mr. Tango.  Almost every company out there has a policy about not divulging salary.  There are many other criteria available to determine whether a company is a good fit. The salary policy is at the bottom of the list for me. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PeterM on February 15, 2014, 07:54:58 PM
My ex-boss "Scrooge" was exactly like this. And the reason was he _did_ pay new people almost as much as people like me who had been there for years and not gotten a decent raise. The original staff found out and it ended up costing him _all_ his experienced personnel in the space of a few months...

Happened to me with a job in high school. I'd been working there for a year without a raise, and found out that all three of the people the new manager had just hired for the exact same position were making significantly more than me. I went in to talk to him and tell him I needed to be given a raise to match their salary or I'd quit, and he spent quite a bit of time complaining that "I told all of them not to tell anyone what they were being paid!" rather than actually discussing the issue with me.

When he did deign to talk it over with me, it boiled down to "I'm not giving you a raise and you should be grateful you have a job," so I gave my two week's notice. He started screaming at me, so I asked him if he even wanted me to work my last two weeks. He said no, so I left and went next door to the supermarket, where I immediately got a job for more money than I'd been asking my ex-boss for.

I understand that not all "salaries are confidential" policies come from sinister motives, but I can't say I trust them all that much.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MerryCat on February 15, 2014, 09:22:46 PM
I understand that not all "salaries are confidential" policies come from sinister motives, but I can't say I trust them all that much.

Yeah, I can understand when the person whose salary it is wants to keep in confidential. But when a third party is telling them they HAVE to keep it confidential, I get a bit suspicious.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Otterpop on February 15, 2014, 09:54:45 PM
I worked at a school where one teacher was consistently coming in late to work every day or not coming in at all (always having car problems, family emergencies, etc.)  As a vocational instructor and part-time administrator, I'd take over her classes until she came in, then catch up on my own paperwork and duties later.  It was stressful but I'd work late and never refuse any job my boss threw at me.

When the company implemented cutbacks, our brilliant Dean reduced MY afternoon hours to give them to flaky teacher so she could come in later.  She also offered flaky a raise to encourage her to show up (we DID talk salaries as the company was sneaky).  I was cut back to part-time and offered no extra money as it was "for the good of the company."  There was quite the protest around the office but boss insisted it was only temporary and flaky would step up.  I started quietly job searching that day.

The arrangement lasted one week as flaky couldn't be on time even in the afternoons.  Flaky was let go, Dean was forced to give me back my hours, everyone cheered.  However the job search I'd begun resulted in an offer, so I gave notice within the month.  Last I heard, Dean had to hire 3 people to replace me, and one was so overworked he asked for a raise after 30 days.  I never noticed how bad it had gotten until I began my new job and realized I had time to take lunch, have a coffee break now and again and would actually leave work on time everyday.

Never again will I sacrifice so much or let myself be treated so shabbily.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Library Dragon on February 15, 2014, 10:11:42 PM
I have asked employees not to discuss raises or salaries. In one case all the lowest paid employees except for one received raises. The one person was in a retraining situation due to multiple PD issues. We didn't want her co-workers taking anymore of her rude behavior.

She ended up committing absolutely provable PD a short time later.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: jedikaiti on February 15, 2014, 10:12:47 PM
I was once asked to absolutely NOT discuss my bonus amount as it was a small pool that year, and mine was higher than average.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: LadyClaire on February 15, 2014, 10:25:29 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

I don't think that's always the case, but that can be one indication of unfair practices.  Unless there were other indications, however, I wouldn't use that one policy as an indication of a problem.  I've never held a job where HR policies didn't prohibit us from discussing our pay with other employees.  Of course, that didn't stop us.

I have to agree with Mr. Tango.  Almost every company out there has a policy about not divulging salary.  There are many other criteria available to determine whether a company is a good fit. The salary policy is at the bottom of the list for me.

Oddly enough, despite the Uni I work for being privately owned and for-profit, there's a policy in the employee handbook that states HR/managers legally cannot prohibit staff from discussing salaries/divulging what they make to each other. I was surprised when I came across that, because I would have assumed it would be against policy since that's usually the case.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on February 16, 2014, 07:37:07 AM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

My ex-boss "Scrooge" was exactly like this. And the reason was he _did_ pay new people almost as much as people like me who had been there for years and not gotten a decent raise. The original staff found out and it ended up costing him _all_ his experienced personnel in the space of a few months...

Someone in a company who has access to employee salaries, like HR or payroll, does have an obligation to keep those salaries confidential.

But employers who don't want employees revealing their salaries to other employees of the same company--that's a different story.

Not to get all legal here, but google the National Labor Relations Act if you are interested in this subject.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MayHug on February 16, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
Funny story about raises at my husbands job.

They were all given raises at the beginning of the year. This is my husband's second job,and it's at a small factory. He is a very good listener and as such has co-workers seek him out for advice quite often.

The week the raises came about, he had no less than 20 guys come to talk to him. Every single one said " They told me not to share what I got as a raise. I was given the highest raise in the plant because they value my work and I'm their best employee"

Yes, each one got the highest raise for being the most valued employee! lol That was the beginning of the year and he hasn't heard any grumbling, so they most have all kept it quiet except for telling him.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on February 16, 2014, 01:45:13 PM
Mayhug, that could really have backfired on them if one of the 20 had shared with another. It would have been a lot smarter to tell them that they had received the largest bonus given out, because they were such a valued employee, rather than telling 20 people they were the BEST employee. I wouldn't care if 20 other people also got the same amount I did, if they were hard workers, too. But I would lose respect if I found out the boss was saying each of us was the best employee he had.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 16, 2014, 02:05:30 PM
I think you could say, "We're giving you our best raise because we value your work," which might sound like the same thing but isn't."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 18, 2014, 02:35:25 PM
This is why I am so glad to be in civil service, where salary is set by law and is a matter of public record. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: FauxFoodist on February 18, 2014, 03:29:47 PM
My salary (and annual salary history) are also publicly posted.  It is also set to a strict guideline as to how much I am to be paid.  I work for a public university so ALL of our salaries are public knowledge, as is that of all the other government employees.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Luci on February 18, 2014, 04:37:45 PM
This is why I am so glad to be in civil service, where salary is set by law and is a matter of public record.

And the school district! Even our retirement is published.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: SmarterPrimate on February 19, 2014, 03:35:19 PM
I’ll try to make this BG as short as possible: I worked for a small chiropractic office for just over a year. They were a relatively new practice, and were trying out as many ideas as they could to drum up business. They decided to sign on with a “lifestyle coach”. While I could see that a large part of the system was really great for the business side of things, there was also as aspect of “personal development”. This personal development focused largely on Christian religion, such as “thanking God for the bounty that is yours”. For the record: I have NO issue with anyone wanting to uphold any kind of religious morals in their own lives, but I also firmly believe in the separation of work and religion (with the obvious exclusions: churches, missions/ministries, etc.). So personally, I was not comfortable supporting the religious aspects of the coaching system within the office. Of course, after a short time, the doctors felt I was “not supporting them in their efforts with Doctor Coach” and let me go. Those were their exact words when they let me go. I covered my bases, contacted a labor lawyer (who told me, based on the facts, that I was let go without just cause – as in, laid off), and got the ball rolling for unemployment insurance. Well, after having to ask for my Record of Employment (legally required to be in my hands 10 business days after dismissal), I discovered they lied on the reason for dismissal, saying I was insubordinate and did not do my job. I fought their reasoning through the local labor board, and I won! Full unemployment benefits!

Would you believe the doctors actually approached me after all of this, to let me know they “would love to continue treating me as a patient”…?!?!?  :o

Can I get a big e-hell NO on that one, folks?

I’m still scraping my jaw off the floor over this, and it happened in 2001.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: MerryCat on February 19, 2014, 03:45:20 PM
I’ll try to make this BG as short as possible: I worked for a small chiropractic office for just over a year. They were a relatively new practice, and were trying out as many ideas as they could to drum up business. They decided to sign on with a “lifestyle coach”. While I could see that a large part of the system was really great for the business side of things, there was also as aspect of “personal development”. This personal development focused largely on Christian religion, such as “thanking God for the bounty that is yours”. For the record: I have NO issue with anyone wanting to uphold any kind of religious morals in their own lives, but I also firmly believe in the separation of work and religion (with the obvious exclusions: churches, missions/ministries, etc.). So personally, I was not comfortable supporting the religious aspects of the coaching system within the office. Of course, after a short time, the doctors felt I was “not supporting them in their efforts with Doctor Coach” and let me go. Those were their exact words when they let me go. I covered my bases, contacted a labor lawyer (who told me, based on the facts, that I was let go without just cause – as in, laid off), and got the ball rolling for unemployment insurance. Well, after having to ask for my Record of Employment (legally required to be in my hands 10 business days after dismissal), I discovered they lied on the reason for dismissal, saying I was insubordinate and did not do my job. I fought their reasoning through the local labor board, and I won! Full unemployment benefits!

Would you believe the doctors actually approached me after all of this, to let me know they “would love to continue treating me as a patient”…?!?!?  :o

Can I get a big e-hell NO on that one, folks?

I’m still scraping my jaw off the floor over this, and it happened in 2001.

 :o The mind... she boggles! I really, truly wish I could understand the worldview that makes "Yes, I know we made you life hard and fought you in court over something you were entitled to, but we're willing to put this all behind us in exchange for you paying us" seem like a reasonable thought to express.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 19, 2014, 03:56:25 PM
^^^ Situations such as that are the kind that make me want to say, "I would like to direct your attention to the sprig of mistletoe I have so playfully affixed to my back pocket."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on February 19, 2014, 04:53:22 PM
^^^ Situations such as that are the kind that make me want to say, "I would like to direct your attention to the sprig of mistletoe I have so playfully affixed to my back pocket."

I...think I love you for this quote alone.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nuit93 on February 19, 2014, 05:26:33 PM
^^^ Situations such as that are the kind that make me want to say, "I would like to direct your attention to the sprig of mistletoe I have so playfully affixed to my back pocket."

Saving that for later :-D
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on February 19, 2014, 05:50:40 PM
^^^ Situations such as that are the kind that make me want to say, "I would like to direct your attention to the sprig of mistletoe I have so playfully affixed to my back pocket."

Love it.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 19, 2014, 05:52:36 PM
^^^ Situations such as that are the kind that make me want to say, "I would like to direct your attention to the sprig of mistletoe I have so playfully affixed to my back pocket."

Love it.

Heeheehee!! :):)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Phoebelion on February 20, 2014, 10:22:45 AM
We are predicted to have a major ice storm along with high winds later today.  (ice + high winds = trees and wires down)

The manager just announced if it happens, don't bother coming in tomorrow.

My response was "Bless your heart".  He knows what I meant ;D
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: fountainof on February 20, 2014, 11:28:36 AM
I think in many cases it is in an employees best interest not to openly discuss salary.  I think demanding it in writing probably isn't enforceable.  My DH has worked a place where they felt you shouldn't even discuss your salary with non-employees and that is crazy since there are reasons you do discuss salary with other people like your spouse or your financial planner.

Employees should use discretion when discussing salaries and bonuses.  Not really for the employer's benefit but for their own.  What happens if your bonus is $XX and Jill's is only $X.  If she knows, she may question the difference trying to get more bonus for herself but in turn it may bring to light a question of your own bonus and maybe it is too high.  I make a high income because the knowledge and risk I take in my profession.  I hear a lot from a few admin staff here that it must be nice that the owners make so much, aren't they lucky, etc. in a tone that implies they feel it is unfair.  For this reason, I protect myself by not discussing my salary/income with coworkers in lower positions.  I am a junior partner and I do discuss career aspiration/ income goals with the two junior partners and two senior partners though as the more money I bring into the firm, the more they make as well.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ceallach on February 21, 2014, 05:59:18 PM
We have no explicit policy of not discussing salary, however it is my preference.

We pay our staff fairly (and I believe in rewarding good staff so they stay!), but that doesn't mean they will necessarily see it that way.    For example, the administration staff might look at the clinical staff and think "Hey I work just as many hours as she does!  And my job is really hard!  Why does she get $20k more?"  because they don't necessarily understand the different training and experience required for the other job.    The fact is, most people are theoretically capable of doing any of the jobs, so it's hard for them to sometimes realise that actually what the other person does *is* worth more because it's a harder role to recruit for, as a person has to have some prior qualification and experience, and that while it may appear day to day they're doing similarly easy tasks they are making higher level decisions.   But these things are rarely raised openly and discussed, they're more likely to affect morale through quiet grumbling about the other team being overpaid.   So unless we're in an industry where we can be completely open and public about remuneration, it's best if it's kept discreet to avoid misunderstanding.    (We definitely do not pay staff doing the same job different salaries, except based on seniority e.g. if somebody is new they will earn less for their first 6 months).   

I would never say "don't you dare tell anybody else what you earn!" because I think that almost guarantees that they *will* do that - after all, if somebody said that to me my first thought would be "Why not??  What is it they don't want us to find out?" and I'd immediately want to compare salaries to see where the discrepancy was and the reason for the secrecy.   ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on February 22, 2014, 10:49:45 AM
Ceallach, those are all excellent points, and I think that is why my one previous employer did forbid all salary discussions.  In civil service, you know going in that position A earns $X, and the qualifications are such and such, while my position earns $Y, and this is what I needed to be hired.  Any employee who said, "But I work just as much," would be told that pay rates are set by law.  If you don't think it is fair, go elsewhere.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: FauxFoodist on February 22, 2014, 01:00:40 PM
When DH and I bought our house 1.5 years ago, we went to HardwareStore to buy our appliances.  OBFF (Obnoxious BFF) had an absolute cow about DH doing this and verbally abused DH on the phone and in e-mail about how DH "went against tradition" and how "only a loser would go to HardwareStore" to buy these appliances.  ::)  >:(  Apparently OBFF and NBFF (Nice BFF) bought their major appliances from OtherHardwareStore so DH was supposed to follow "tradition" and purchase from OtherHardwareStore also (we don't shop at OtherHardwareStore because of me -- I had bad customer service from them at two different locations in different parts of the state; I declared after the second one that I wouldn't shop there ever again).  I was pretty peeved that OBFF was abusing DH over this (and he did this for several weeks, I believe).  I still can't believe this loser thought he has the right to dictate to anyone where to shop.  Several months go by and OBFF is having a cow about something...again.  I ask DH what is it this time; DH said it's about the appliances again.  DH has a very mild-mannered way of handling these things and let it slide again.  Currently, DH is not talking to OBFF (he's "taking a break"; OBFF finally crossed the line where DH is concerned).

Another OBFF demand for loyalty -- NBFF has a happy life with his wife and kids.  NBFF loves loves LOVES being a dad; DH said that, when they were in high school, NBFF always talked about how he looked forward to being a dad one day.  NBFF and wife are really good parents, and their lives do seem quite happy and full.  OBFF is beyond upset that NBFF does not spend more time on/with OBFF.  OBFF even told NBFF that NBFF's wife and kids take up way too much of his time.  OBFF feels that since he, OBFF, was around first, that NBFF's loyalty and time should first go to OBFF.  NBFF is too busy to deal with this insanity so he does the best thing and refuses to engage the crazy.  NBFF is a very happy guy.  OBFF...miserable as always.

OBFF would call DH around the clock and expect DH to drop everything to talk to him.  DH has a bad habit of running to answer the phone every time it rings and the door every time someone is there.  I am the polar opposite.  I will typically ignore both of these things unless I am expecting a call or a visitor.  As a result, DH would habitually answer the phone.  DH didn't understand the rudeness of sitting there chatting away with or having a continual text-exchange with someone else while we were on a date.  I had a few discussions with DH about this so DH learned to not do this (I think it finally hit home when I was literally on my way to the front door while he ignored me to chat on a call that could wait until I had gone home; DH quickly got off the phone).  OBFF, though, just wasn't learning (mostly because DH would keep picking up the phone).  DH learned to stop answering the phone (I told DH if he would just stop responding, OBFF would stop bombarding him for contact).  I think DH finally learned after two situations that didn't involve me.  DH was trying to pray one morning and, even after telling OBFF he would talk to him later and needed to pray, OBFF continued to call.  DH turned off the ringers and prayed.  Another time, DH was at work, and OBFF continued to call.  I'm not sure what DH told him (he might've had to enlist the assistance of his coworker to tell OBFF DH was not available to come to the phone).

DH's middle-aged cousin also believes that, when she calls, everyone is supposed to drop everything to cater to her.  She actually had DH and BIL trained to do this because, as they both said, if you don't, Cousin gets very upset and freezes you out (not that I think that's a bad thing).  DH would do this while we were dating and, one time, let her engage him when we were together, rushing to get to the phone because of her unreasonable demands.  I pointed out to him that a) he's setting up the future for us by allowing her to come first and b) he was jeopardizing the future of our relationship as I wasn't going to spend our lives together with Cousin being allowed to force him to drop everything at her whim.  As predicted, Cousin froze out DH because he wouldn't cater to her, and, yes, she blamed it all on me.  She even blew me off at our wedding -- I told DH that was the last time I was tolerating her at an event of ours and that, as long as we're together, she's not welcome in our house, pointing out that it would said a very bad message to future children to allow someone to be in our home and see their father allow that person to disrespect their mother like that; DH agreed (I didn't want her at our wedding but knew I'd have to tolerate her presence for this event; I even encouraged DH to continue to reach out to her and invite her to be one of the lectors at our wedding -- yes, I can't stand her, but I know it upsets DH to not be close to her anymore so I put up with this, to an extent, for DH's sake; however, snubbing me at our wedding was the last time I was putting up with her shenanigans and, finally, DH was upset and agreed).

A few years ago, I was a chocolate festival with DH (then DF) and some friends.  DH wasn't feeling well so he opted not to participate in the chocolate tea service we were doing at that moment.  I understood but, playfully, gave DH a frowny face and told him I was sad.  My guy friend's face became quite thunderous and, in a low voice only I could hear, said that he (Guy) was participating and that should be good enough.  >:(  I was furious but let it slide at that moment.  Later that day, Guy decided he had to take me aside to berate me away from DH and another friend.  I let Guy know in no uncertain terms that while I was happy he participated in the tea service, that didn't mean I couldn't be sad that DH was not participating.  Also, I made it very clear to Guy that I was marrying DH, and there would never be a time where I would put Guy ahead of DH (and, no, jealousy wasn't in play here -- I dated Guy years prior, and Guy had every opportunity to get back together with me but never wanted to...then I woke up and realized I didn't want to either -- this is a year or two before I met DH).  Directly after that incident, I realized I'd had enough of Guy's SS behavior and haven't seen or spoken to him in 3.5 years, I think.

And, I just have to point out -- every one of these individuals I mentioned are miserable human beings.  Gee, I wonder why...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: twilight on February 22, 2014, 01:03:19 PM
What people earn is supposed to be confidential. I worked in payroll and this was stressed on me on my first day.
I agree that people who have access to that information in the course of their work should consider it confidential. But it's a huge red flag for me, when an employer stresses that an individual is never, ever to tell a co-worker about his.her salary- because in my experience, that means that the boss is engaged in unfair practices, and knows it. If you don't let the men tell the women they're getting $5000 a year more for the same work, then you don't have to deal with irate women employees.

I don't think that's always the case, but that can be one indication of unfair practices.  Unless there were other indications, however, I wouldn't use that one policy as an indication of a problem.  I've never held a job where HR policies didn't prohibit us from discussing our pay with other employees.  Of course, that didn't stop us.

I have to agree with Mr. Tango.  Almost every company out there has a policy about not divulging salary.  There are many other criteria available to determine whether a company is a good fit. The salary policy is at the bottom of the list for me.

Most people don't realize that in the majority of cases U.S. employers cannot legally require employees not to discuss salaries with each other. 

http://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/labor-employment/b/labor-employment-top-blogs/archive/2013/02/21/you-have-the-right-to-discuss-salary-with-coworkers.aspx

Just because it is in an employee policy handbook does not mean it is legal for your company to enforce.  I have run into 2 situations where my employer (giant well known global corporate conglomerate who you would think would know better) has had items in our handbook that are illegal.  One employee fought back after HR threatened her for violating a policy and she just had her lawyer send them a letter that what they were doing was illegal.  HR backed down because they didn't have a legal leg to stand on.  So just cause it is your employer's policy does not necessarily mean they have a legal right to enforce the policy.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on February 22, 2014, 05:33:00 PM
I got a text early this afternoon from our office manager saying I needed to be on call all weekend because Boss had to do something that should take no more than an hour and would not prevent her from answering a phone. I was on my way into the city and politely declined as my employer believes I'm free to work any time they want if I'm in the state. Last time it was so Boss could attend a football game and I needed to drive 4 hours for a conference at a specific that day which completely overlapped.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on February 22, 2014, 05:44:44 PM
I was thinking that I was going to get a new car in a few months, so one day while I was driving past the X Dealership, I decided to swing in and see if they had some brochures detailing the difference between a couple of models I was considering. Of course they did, and a salesman spent some time talking with me, so I thought nothing of signing the customer log so that he would be given credit for his time.

After a couple of weeks, I noticed that several people in an organization I belonged to were being very cold towards me. It ultimately came out that one of the men had seen the log, and was furious that I had not asked for him when I came in. The SS part of it? I had no idea he had recently taken a job selling cars. AND he was a salesman in the Y Brand Dealership, which was owned by the same man who owned the X Brand Dealership.
I would have been glad to patronize this salesman- IF I had known he worked at the Y dealership, and salesmen at the Y dealership could also show X cars. But all I wanted was a brochure...I didn't even plan to speak to a salesman! So it seemed really silly, that even if I HAD known, to drive into the Y dealership and ask him to walk over to the X dealership and get me a brochure about X cars.
I ended up buying at the Z dealership. ::) His wife never forgave me for the mortal insult to her husband's car-selling prowess.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Micah on February 22, 2014, 10:29:32 PM
OH got a job working for a logging contractor straight out of trade school. He worked for them for fifteen years, full time, hardly any sick days and NO HOLIDAYS except for two weeks when he met me. Yah, the man was a workaholic, still is really. His trade qualification was as a diesel mechanic, but his job was just as an operator. Rather than pay a mechanic $60 or above an hour to work on the machines, they got OH to do it, for no extra pay......for fifteen years.

A couple of years after he met me the company employed someone who lived near us and the site boss decreed that OH's work vehicle was to be used to transport OH and the new hire. Fair enough, no point giving new hire his own vehicle when he lived so close and was travelling to exactly the same job site. Except, new hire was an extremely unpleasant character who proceeded to make OH's life hell  every single day for six months. The job site was over two hours away, so it was four hours every single day.  OH is extremely easy going, very non violent. In nine years together I think I've seen him genuinely furious twice. He went through every proper channel he could (on my advice. I worked for a huge corporation at the time. Their conflict resolution practices and employee standards stuff were some of the top in the world at the time. I had a fairly solid working knowledge of employee rights) and he basically got told to suck it up. Absolutely nothing was done. OH was stressed and depressed, I was furious on his behalf.

It all came to a head when he came home several hours early, alone in the work car, with a black eye. New hire had attacked him in the car! OH fought back in self defence and they were both sent home early pending an investigation. The end result was that both of them got fired. New hire for starting the fight and OH for fighting back! So basically he should have just let new hire beat him to a pulp and he would have kept his job!  >:(

The ownership of the company was set up a little funny. There were two owners, one fairly local and one overseas. Then were were numerous site and crew bosses under them. The decision to fire them both came from the overseas owner, because the local one had been unreachable due to a family emergency.

OH had always said that local boss was an really nice man, so in desperation, with bills piling up I rang him. He was astounded to hear OH's side of the story (believed him instantly). He kept saying, "He should have come straight to me! Stuff protocol and proper channels!" He assured me that if it were completely up to him OH would have his job back instantly, but because other owner had made the decision he couldn't. What he could do though was make sure every single entitlement was paid to OH and give him a glowing reference. (When the payment came through it was several thousand dollars over what we expected. I found out through other channels that he'd given us several thousand out of his own pocket. I'll forever love that man for that.)

The kicker though was several weeks later (OH already had another job, he is highly employable) the site boss (One of the people directly responsible for him losing his job) rang and said that the machines were falling apart and that they would consider hiring him back.....on probation with a lot less pay than he'd been previously on. Fortunately I answered the phone and was able to tell him, without using any bad language, exactly what I thought of him.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: drzim on February 22, 2014, 11:27:06 PM
Slightly OT.....a story about comparing salaries that happened a long long time ago...

When I was home for the summer after my first year of college I landed a very nice summer job working for a company that did evaluations of educational curricula and special programs for K-12 schools.  At first all I was doing was data entry, but I learned quickly and started doing more and more analysis of the data, graphs, compiling reports.  Because they liked me so much, they invited me back to work there during all my breaks, winter and summer, for the next 3 years. I was making a decent salary, much more than a typical student job, such that I didn't have to work part-time during the semester. I think that's why I kept going back.  Summer after my junior year, I had taken advanced statistics and math so they had me doing even more technical work and analysis.  Halfway through that summer, the project I had been working was really turning into their main project, and they realized that I would be gone soon so they decided to hire a full time employee to take over. 

The new hire, Jane, had just graduated with her B.A. degree in the education field. It became apparent that my new role was to train Jane, which I did.  Basically, she was doing my exact job and not that well, I may add.  I was constantly having to go back over things and fix her mistakes. Her response was always "oh that's just a little error, it doesn't really matter"  and "why do you have to be so picky about details?"  Frustrating, but I always made sure everything was eventually corrected. 

One day, though, after a particularly annoying session with her and her mistakes, she blurted out that she wasn't all that interested in this job, it was too much attention to detail, too much computer work, and they were *only* paying her $X........of course, I was stunned because it was almost twice as much as they were paying me....and we were doing the exact same job.  Actually I was doing a large chunk of hers as well as mine.

When I asked my direct boss about it ( I had never even been given a raise in all the time I worked there), she laughed at me like I was the most naive girl on the planet.  "Of course she is paid more than you.  Jane has a DEGREE.  That's the way the real working world works."

I finished that week but never went back.  I always thought I was kind of SS because I expected to get paid the same as the person that I was training.   Is it common to pay people with a degree more for the same job? 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 23, 2014, 12:21:47 AM
Slightly OT.....a story about comparing salaries that happened a long long time ago...

When I was home for the summer after my first year of college I landed a very nice summer job working for a company that did evaluations of educational curricula and special programs for K-12 schools.  At first all I was doing was data entry, but I learned quickly and started doing more and more analysis of the data, graphs, compiling reports.  Because they liked me so much, they invited me back to work there during all my breaks, winter and summer, for the next 3 years. I was making a decent salary, much more than a typical student job, such that I didn't have to work part-time during the semester. I think that's why I kept going back.  Summer after my junior year, I had taken advanced statistics and math so they had me doing even more technical work and analysis.  Halfway through that summer, the project I had been working was really turning into their main project, and they realized that I would be gone soon so they decided to hire a full time employee to take over. 

The new hire, Jane, had just graduated with her B.A. degree in the education field. It became apparent that my new role was to train Jane, which I did.  Basically, she was doing my exact job and not that well, I may add.  I was constantly having to go back over things and fix her mistakes. Her response was always "oh that's just a little error, it doesn't really matter"  and "why do you have to be so picky about details?"  Frustrating, but I always made sure everything was eventually corrected. 

One day, though, after a particularly annoying session with her and her mistakes, she blurted out that she wasn't all that interested in this job, it was too much attention to detail, too much computer work, and they were *only* paying her $X........of course, I was stunned because it was almost twice as much as they were paying me....and we were doing the exact same job.  Actually I was doing a large chunk of hers as well as mine.

When I asked my direct boss about it ( I had never even been given a raise in all the time I worked there), she laughed at me like I was the most naive girl on the planet.  "Of course she is paid more than you.  Jane has a DEGREE.  That's the way the real working world works."

I finished that week but never went back.  I always thought I was kind of SS because I expected to get paid the same as the person that I was training.   Is it common to pay people with a degree more for the same job? 

In my experience, yes it is fairly common to pay an intern less money than a full time employee with a degree.  And while your exact job title may not have been intern, it's probably the closest to what you were doing.   You were not a full time employee, nor were you a traditional part time employee.  You were there for ~3 months in the summer and then ~4-6 weeks in the winter?  Who was doing what you were doing the rest of the year?  Were you the only person doing this type of job?

However, I agree that they were using you and your skills unfairly.  I would never give an employee such as yourself that type of project without having a pretty serious discussion about expectations, both salary and job wise.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on February 23, 2014, 11:34:27 AM
So - after you finished your degree - would they have had you go full time at the reduced rate that they'd gotten away with paying a college student or would you have gotten paid what Jane was being paid?

Think about it.  What do YOU think they would have done?  Still feel like you did the wrong thing walking away from training Jane?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: bopper on February 24, 2014, 09:15:18 AM
This is why I am so glad to be in civil service, where salary is set by law and is a matter of public record.

And the school district! Even our retirement is published.

I actually found that to be kind of cool...you could see when your favorite teachers retired or if they are still working at the school. I don't really care what their retirement pay is.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: drzim on February 25, 2014, 03:55:01 PM
Slightly OT.....a story about comparing salaries that happened a long long time ago...

When I was home for the summer after my first year of college I landed a very nice summer job working for a company that did evaluations of educational curricula and special programs for K-12 schools.  At first all I was doing was data entry, but I learned quickly and started doing more and more analysis of the data, graphs, compiling reports.  Because they liked me so much, they invited me back to work there during all my breaks, winter and summer, for the next 3 years. I was making a decent salary, much more than a typical student job, such that I didn't have to work part-time during the semester. I think that's why I kept going back.  Summer after my junior year, I had taken advanced statistics and math so they had me doing even more technical work and analysis.  Halfway through that summer, the project I had been working was really turning into their main project, and they realized that I would be gone soon so they decided to hire a full time employee to take over. 

The new hire, Jane, had just graduated with her B.A. degree in the education field. It became apparent that my new role was to train Jane, which I did.  Basically, she was doing my exact job and not that well, I may add.  I was constantly having to go back over things and fix her mistakes. Her response was always "oh that's just a little error, it doesn't really matter"  and "why do you have to be so picky about details?"  Frustrating, but I always made sure everything was eventually corrected. 

One day, though, after a particularly annoying session with her and her mistakes, she blurted out that she wasn't all that interested in this job, it was too much attention to detail, too much computer work, and they were *only* paying her $X........of course, I was stunned because it was almost twice as much as they were paying me....and we were doing the exact same job.  Actually I was doing a large chunk of hers as well as mine.

When I asked my direct boss about it ( I had never even been given a raise in all the time I worked there), she laughed at me like I was the most naive girl on the planet.  "Of course she is paid more than you.  Jane has a DEGREE.  That's the way the real working world works."

I finished that week but never went back.  I always thought I was kind of SS because I expected to get paid the same as the person that I was training.   Is it common to pay people with a degree more for the same job? 

In my experience, yes it is fairly common to pay an intern less money than a full time employee with a degree.  And while your exact job title may not have been intern, it's probably the closest to what you were doing.   You were not a full time employee, nor were you a traditional part time employee.  You were there for ~3 months in the summer and then ~4-6 weeks in the winter?  Who was doing what you were doing the rest of the year?  Were you the only person doing this type of job?

However, I agree that they were using you and your skills unfairly.  I would never give an employee such as yourself that type of project without having a pretty serious discussion about expectations, both salary and job wise.

To answer a few questions, I think it was closer to a temp position....I only worked there ~4 months/year, but when I was working it was full time. So by the time I left, I had put in the equivalent of almost 1 year full time.  The project I worked on was a long term study--so the first year it was mostly just data entry and simple stuff because it had just started.  But as time passed and more data was accumulated, it needed to be analyzed.  I am not 100% sure, but I don't think they had anyone doing the analysis when I wasn't there, just data entry.  Then when I returned, I would work on the analysis and reports.  It was only during that third summer when they decided that there had been enough progress with the project that they needed someone working on it all throughout the year, and that's when they hired Jane.

Yes, I was young and didn't realize that they were taking advantage of me. I was just excited to directly use what I had learned in my college math and statistics classes.  I was blindsided by the fact that Jane was being paid much much more than me for the same basic work (and add to the fact that I was training her).  They could have offered me a little more pay and I would've been happy.   Instead,  my supervisor actually laughed at me--laughed at the thought that I deserved to make as much money as someone with a degree--even though I was only 2 semesters away from a degree myself.

I have no idea if they would have paid me the bigger salary after I graduated.  My college degree was in science (Genetics) and I was hoping to land a job in a research lab, so I wouldn't have considered working there.  It just happened that many of the math/statistics programs used for an educational study were the same as ones used for a genetics study.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on February 25, 2014, 09:14:07 PM
Your supervisor was....not very smart.  I would kill for a student like you.  In fact, I try really really hard not to give up staff like you at all.  I have one kid who's been working with me since he was a sophomore in high school.  He's a junior in college now.  I'm very happy that he decided to go to a local school.  Although now I'm considering letting him be poached by a local hospital lab, he's that good.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Winterlight on February 26, 2014, 08:24:41 AM
I think your supervisor could at the least have gently explained things to you instead of laughing. That was mean and not good management.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 26, 2014, 11:50:53 PM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: NyaChan on February 27, 2014, 12:02:23 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nuit93 on February 27, 2014, 12:27:01 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree.

And there goes my keyboard ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Katana_Geldar on February 27, 2014, 12:48:04 AM
Okay, that's the best fail I've ever had. I blame autocorrect and a bus ride.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: amandaelizabeth on February 27, 2014, 12:51:18 AM
Only an Aussie!!!!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: cicero on February 27, 2014, 01:53:48 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.
hear hear!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: greencat on February 27, 2014, 01:56:55 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.
hear hear!

It's not true!  An education is very important to potential suitors  ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on February 27, 2014, 10:42:13 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.
hear hear!

It's not true!  An education is very important to potential suitors  ;)

Worked for me  >:D
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nutraxfornerves on February 27, 2014, 11:29:40 AM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.


I'd suggest that it is true that people with degrees have more luck. If you have more degrees than someone else, then you are going to be attractive to people who are looking for someone really hot.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Slartibartfast on February 27, 2014, 12:04:57 PM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.


I'd suggest that it is true that people with degrees have more luck. If you have more degrees than someone else, then you are going to be attractive to people who are looking for someone really hot.

More directly, income is a pretty major contributor to sexual attraction - for women.  From an academic study about online dating:

Quote from: http://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf
65% of men and 53% of women report their income. Income strongly affects the
success of men, as measured by the number of first-contact e-mails received (Figure 5.6).
While there is no apparent effect below an annual income of $50,000, outcomes improve
monotonically for income levels above $50,000. Relative to incomes below $50,000, the
increase in the expected number of first contacts is at least 34% and as large as 151% for
incomes in excess of $250,000. In contrast to the strong income effect for men, the online
success of women is at most marginally related to their income. Women in the $50,000-
$100,000 income range fare slightly better than women with lower incomes. Higher incomes,
however, do not appear to improve outcomes, and—with the exception of incomes between
$150,000 and $200,000—are not associated with a statistically different effect relative to the
$15,000-$25,000 income range.

The same study found in regards to education, though, that "For men, higher levels of education are associated with a modest increase in first contacts [through the online dating service]; for women, the relationship is essentially flat."  Their study also found that women were much more likely to seek out men with the same education level they had; men didn't seem to care as much.  Here's what I found the most interesting, though:

Quote
Table 5.5 shows the trade-offs between height and income. A man who is 5 feet 6
inches tall, for example, needs an additional $175,000 to be as desirable as a man who is
approximately 6 feet tall (the median height in our sample) and who makes $62,500 per
year.

Maybe the most striking numbers are with regard to income-ethnicity trade-offs, as
shown in Table 5.6. For equal success with a white woman, an African-American man needs
to earn $154,000 more than a white man. Hispanic men need an additional $77,000, and
Asian men need an additional $247,000 in annual income. In contrast to men, women mostly
cannot compensate for their ethnicity with a higher income.

It's a really fascinating paper (especially if you skip all the math)  :P
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 27, 2014, 12:50:45 PM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree
.

Well after spending many years in school getting my degrees, I have to say that's disappointing to hear.


I'd suggest that it is true that people with degrees have more luck. If you have more degrees than someone else, then you are going to be attractive to people who are looking for someone really hot.

Unless what they want is someone cool. Or someone chill.
Then having lots of degrees might work against you.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Winterlight on February 27, 2014, 01:49:16 PM
OTOH, the chillest guy I know has eight degrees- I think. He may be up to nine by now.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: FauxFoodist on February 27, 2014, 02:02:36 PM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree.

That was great!  I swear I should put that down as my FB status today (although I think my extremely religious DH would object).
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on February 27, 2014, 03:35:50 PM
I suspect sometimes it might have something to do with the type of degree.  Some jobs always seem to be hiring (teachers, nurses, doctors, for example) but I've known a couple of folks with liberal arts degrees who don't have as much luck.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Luci on February 27, 2014, 03:37:35 PM
Is this the first time a typo has generated an off-topic thread?  :)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: buvezdevin on February 27, 2014, 03:41:22 PM
I suspect sometimes it might have something to do with the type of degree.  Some jobs always seem to be hiring (teachers, nurses, doctors, for example) but I've known a couple of folks with liberal arts degrees who don't have as much luck.

Perhaps the liberal arts degrees confer a disproportionate, but different form of being lucky. 

(That is the best typo I have seen in a good while, whether or not the first to launch a tangent.)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on February 27, 2014, 03:45:02 PM
I suspect sometimes it might have something to do with the type of degree.  Some jobs always seem to be hiring (teachers, nurses, doctors, for example) but I've known a couple of folks with liberal arts degrees who don't have as much luck.

Perhaps the liberal arts degrees confer a disproportionate, but different form of being lucky. 

(That is the best typo I have seen in a good while, whether or not the first to launch a tangent.)

This is making me crazy--I can't take it. I just can't. I wasn't going to come here and say this, but I just...just...


lots of degrees (oh, maybe 104 of them?) = hot

not very many degrees (like, what, less than 32 of them?) = cool or chill


OK, I feel better now. Sorry and thanks for your patience.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: StarDrifter on February 28, 2014, 07:02:44 AM
hehe typos are fun.

But to drag things back to the thread topic...

Here in Australia we have some *awesome* fair workplace laws that are supposed to mean that women, when we take maternity leave, are assured that our positions will be held for us for a certain timeframe when we take said leave, and that we are to go back to the same or an equitable position when we return.

Prior to having Baby Drifter (last April) I was working 12-18 hours per week at my employer, right up until I was 8 months pregnant and the company policy required me to stop work '4 weeks before the expected date of confinement'. (For a company that employs 98% women the archaic language amused me at the time of reading the maternity leave policy). Anyway.

So I took six months off (Baby Drifter arrived 2 weeks late, so she was 4.5 months old when I started working again in October). I was assured, after getting my first months' roster, that the single (four hour shift) per week I was getting was just to 'ease me back into things'.
Yeah now it's February and I'm still getting 6 hours/week, but that's okay! I've been with the company for three years now and they've treated me really well! I should be happy with that! Besides, they can't just *fire* the girl they hired as a casual employee to replace me, she's got a car loan to pay off and she's single!

Yes, those are the actual arguments that my boss is trying to use for not giving me the hours that my part-time work contract states I am supposed to get (contract says 12 hours a week minimum, I've had that ONE WEEK since I've been back at work).

When I mentioned that I might just have to look for other options, then, she got very confused and upset because clearly I just needed to show how loyal I was to the company by accepting these minimal hours and eventually I'd get more time on the floor.

Yeah, so I'm going to be taking this one to the Fair Work Ombudsman if I have to...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Sirius on March 04, 2014, 03:31:31 PM
Some bosses don't seem to realize that treating employees as though they're expendable doesn't exactly inspire loyalty. 

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 05, 2014, 08:07:50 AM
Some bosses don't seem to realize that treating employees as though they're expendable doesn't exactly inspire loyalty.

True.  DH, when he started his current job, was told that he could be promoted to management in 6 months.  Didn't happen. Well he was still being trained, another 6 months! Still didn't happen.  The boss told him in January he could be promoted in 6 months.  By  now it's obvious it's just a carrot being dangled and DH is frankly getting tired of the job and is just waiting out his 2 year contract before he starts looking for something else.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: redcat on March 05, 2014, 12:26:45 PM
I get the feeling some employers think just employing someone is enough to merit a huge amount of loyalty.  Don't have to treat them well, or anything.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on March 06, 2014, 04:27:31 PM
I get the feeling some employers think just employing someone is enough to merit a huge amount of loyalty.  Don't have to treat them well, or anything.

I agree!

Unfortunately, BTDT (as the employee, of course).
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ryuugan80 on March 07, 2014, 04:53:06 PM
I'd like to add my big sister's workplace to the list. She works in a sort of medical office type place (not exactly, but that's the best way I can think to put it) where she does processing. She's been having problems with her workplace for a while (especially her current manager) but she's trying to just deal with it until her contract is up.

[background]
Anyway, recently she woke up not feeling well. Turns out she was hypoglycemic, so shaking, light headiness, fatigue, etc. She calls her manager, M, at about 7 in the morning to let him know that she can come in (since her shift is set to start in about an hour) but she's not feeling well because [insert symptoms] so please make sure someone will be able to come in to take over soon.

M says sure, so DBS assumes all is well.

9am rolls around and still no relief. She calls him again, asks where the relief is. He says he'll check. He calls her back letting her know that the girl, G, who is supposed to relieve her is about to go to church and can maybe make it in around 2-3pm.

What?   :o

So at this point G seems pretty unreliable right? Come to find out about a week or two later that M only actually CALLED G at 9am, mentioned none of those symptoms (just that she was feeling a little under the weather, as if it were a cold or something that one could work through for the most part) and sort of hemmed and hawed when G asked when exactly he needed her in by. No sense of urgency, just roll on in when you can.
[/end background]


--Thanks for sticking with me. The office where DBS works is located in Big City about 30-40 minutes away from Small Town she moved to when she took the job (rent in Big City is too expensive). So, this week M sends an email around. Apparently there's a big event going on in Big City. Since most of the job's employees live even further out than DS does, workplace normally puts them up in a hotel in Big City when they're on call. But due to the big event, the cost of the hotels have gone up by about $100. Workplace can't bring itself to pay for that. So M asks the only two people that live within close driving distance to Big City if they could take those shifts instead.

Did I mention those two people are none other than DBS and G? Yeah...DBS has other plans that can't be rearranged (to watch Netflix and play with the cat). G apparently also has other plans, though DBS has no idea whether G is the type to budge on them.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on March 16, 2014, 12:58:17 PM
My office of less than a dozen employees and an owner has a monthly meeting on the same first weekday of the month at 8 am that is mandatory (and relatively new...only a few months old). Unfortunately, that means that the staff members who never work that day or have school either have to come in earlier than they would on a normal work day or just miss the meeting every time. I have a day off every other week on this weekday which means more often then not this meeting is on my day off. It also interferes with my boss' demand that I be out at an appointment AT 9 am every day which could be an hour drive and these run until at least 9.

We've tried to explain that the day or time needs to be moved from time to time or she needs to individually meet with the people who can't be there, but when she gets something in her head she blocks out all reason. This month I moved my day off to the next day as to avoid the conflict, but one staff member who had just turned in notice declined to attend on her day off, one had food poisoning and one can never meet this day due to school.

Boss got upset and has since rescheduled the meeting for this coming weekday, the SAME weekday that causes conflicts, to rehash the exact same agenda. It's again my day off. I have told the office manager I have personal appointments and will not be attending just so Boss can air her grievances again. She will be pissed, but I've stopped caring. I'm getting a massage ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Otterpop on March 16, 2014, 04:40:09 PM
My office of less than a dozen employees and an owner has a monthly meeting on the same first weekday of the month at 8 am that is mandatory (and relatively new...only a few months old). Unfortunately, that means that the staff members who never work that day or have school either have to come in earlier than they would on a normal work day or just miss the meeting every time. I have a day off every other week on this weekday which means more often then not this meeting is on my day off. It also interferes with my boss' demand that I be out at an appointment AT 9 am every day which could be an hour drive and these run until at least 9.

We've tried to explain that the day or time needs to be moved from time to time or she needs to individually meet with the people who can't be there, but when she gets something in her head she blocks out all reason. This month I moved my day off to the next day as to avoid the conflict, but one staff member who had just turned in notice declined to attend on her day off, one had food poisoning and one can never meet this day due to school.

Boss got upset and has since rescheduled the meeting for this coming weekday, the SAME weekday that causes conflicts, to rehash the exact same agenda. It's again my day off. I have told the office manager I have personal appointments and will not be attending just so Boss can air her grievances again. She will be pissed, but I've stopped caring. I'm getting a massage ;)

Enjoy your massage!  It's totally unreasonable for boss to expect an employee to come to work on their day off for a 1 hour meeting.  Not only does it tie up your morning, it causes a commute to and from work where employee doesn't get paid but for an hour.  My worst boss ever didn't even do this.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: DoubleTrouble on March 16, 2014, 08:44:18 PM
I wonder if you supervisor knows that in some areas a degree is less values because a lot of people have one and they got from work experience instead.

People just don't get laid more just because they have a degree.

And there goes my keyboard ;)

I seriously just snorted Diet Pepsi out my nose. Thank you for the laugh!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Octavia on March 16, 2014, 10:10:19 PM
A ex live-in boyfriend used to give me the silent treatment for days whenever he would get upset with me. I would beg him to explain what I did and apologize for whatever it was, but he would not talk to me until he was good and ready. And good and ready meant when he needed something. So one time I held out and gave him the silent treatment right back, knowing he needed a ride to the rental car place a few miles away to get a car for a work trip in a few days. It was February in the Midwest USA so there were several inches of snow on the ground, and it felt like eHell had frozen over. First words he said to me were on the morning of his trip: "you know, I need a ride to the rental car place." I breezily mentioned that since he had stopped all communication for the past week or so, I had no way of knowing that he needed me to re-arrange my work schedule for today, and so hopefully he had made other transportation arrangements. He ended up walking to the rental car place with two suitcases and a laptop case in the snow.* Natural consequences. Can't believe I kept him around for several more months of his garbage.

* He was an avid outdoorsman who regularly spent 12+ hours at a time ice fishing and hunting in cold weather. I would not have let him make that walk if he had not known how to dress properly for the elements.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: siamesecat2965 on March 17, 2014, 10:56:19 AM
A ex live-in boyfriend used to give me the silent treatment for days whenever he would get upset with me. I would beg him to explain what I did and apologize for whatever it was, but he would not talk to me until he was good and ready. And good and ready meant when he needed something. So one time I held out and gave him the silent treatment right back, knowing he needed a ride to the rental car place a few miles away to get a car for a work trip in a few days. It was February in the Midwest USA so there were several inches of snow on the ground, and it felt like eHell had frozen over. First words he said to me were on the morning of his trip: "you know, I need a ride to the rental car place." I breezily mentioned that since he had stopped all communication for the past week or so, I had no way of knowing that he needed me to re-arrange my work schedule for today, and so hopefully he had made other transportation arrangements. He ended up walking to the rental car place with two suitcases and a laptop case in the snow.* Natural consequences. Can't believe I kept him around for several more months of his garbage.

* He was an avid outdoorsman who regularly spent 12+ hours at a time ice fishing and hunting in cold weather. I would not have let him make that walk if he had not known how to dress properly for the elements.

Awesome. I love it!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Vall on March 19, 2014, 08:23:56 AM
In the places where I've worked, people choose not to understand night shift people.  It's so common that I gave up trying to explain.  In one place, we worked 12 hour shifts (I worked 6pm to 6:30am) and the job was heavy manual labor with constant standing/walking.  My work commute was 40 miles each way.  Mandatory meetings were scheduled at 2pm and were an hour long.

Yes, I went to them because I didn't want to break my perfect attendance record.  I'd get home at 7:30am, shower, eat and was asleep by 9:30.  Then get up 3 hours later to go back to work.  Between the meeting and my shift, I went to the local library to waste time before my next 12 hour shift.  It wasn't worth it to drive all the way back home for nothing.  My day shift manager (who only worked 8 hours and lived locally) could not understand why I kept asking that the meetings be scheduled at the beginning or end of our shifts.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on March 19, 2014, 09:22:13 AM
Ugh. That reminds me of the time I worked at a university library. I was the Evening Supervisor for the Circulation Desk. My schedule was Sunday through Thursday, 2 pm to 10 pm.

There was a big shakeup at the library, including completely reorganizing the staff and installing the first computerized catalog and checkout system. Lots of meetings.

Lots of meetings held at 9 am. When I questioned this, I was told I should drive to work, hunt for parking, attend the meeting, drive home, and then turn around a few hours later and repeat the exact same thing. When I asked about comp time for the meetings, because all the meetings were at least 2 hours and there were multiple meeting weekly, at first I was told no, but when I pointed out the rules on comp time, it was allowed, but not happily.

Then I asked if I could just work 9-5 the days we had meetings, because too much of my own time was being spent driving to work and looking for parking and walking from the parking lot to the library. Parking was in short supply on campus due to several construction projects and although I lived 10 minutes from campus, I had to allow at least 45 minutes to drive there, hunt for a parking space and then walk the mile or so from the parking lot to the library. All the other staff had arranged their schedules so they arrived at 8 am, when there was still parking available.

But that didn't work so well either, because I ended up with weeks that went like this:

Monday: 9-5
Tuesday:2-10
Wednesday: 9-5
Thursday: 2-10

I was a sleep-deprived walking zombie.

Then they started holding meetings on Fridays, which was part of my "weekend." I was expected to attend two hour meetings on my scheduled day off. My reply was, "So I get Sunday off instead?" Nope, I was expected to work on my weekend. Yeah, that didn't happen, although I was told I was not a "team player." Well, no one else on the team was being asked to work on their weekend.

Then there was a hiring freeze just at the time the department lost two workers due to retirement. Not a big deal, except there were staffing rules about how many people had to be scheduled each day. With the retirements and no new hires, that meant only one person could be out on a scheduled day off at a time.

Remember how I didn't work on Fridays, because I worked on Sundays? People would want to take a week of vacation, but if someone else was already on vacation that week, they could only take Monday-Thursday, because Friday I was off and so was the other vacationer.

They'd come to me, asking me to take another day off instead. I'd have to explain, over and over and over again, that while I wasn't in the library on Fridays, it was not a vacation day. It was my weekend. I couldn't "reschedule" it.

Finally, I started asking them, "So you'll cover for me on Sunday?" What! I wanted them to give up part of their weekend! Well, that was what they were asking me to do, wasn't it?

It was actually a very nice place to work and I enjoyed my time there, but the complete disregard for my schedule, and the blame I got for being "uncooperative" about schedule changes, got very tiresome.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Tsaiko on March 19, 2014, 11:00:51 AM
My senior year of HS, I worked at an ice cream shop in a mall. I started working there mid-summer before my senior year and was hired by Owner1 (whose name I can not remember). Sometime during the fall, Owner1 sold to Bill. Bill stated that he new more about business than the previous owner and made several changes. Everyone who had worked under previous owner quit within a couple of months except me. In fact, most people quit within 3-6 months under Bill. We went through 3 managers in this time. Keep in mind I was 17, worked the counter, started out making minimum wage, and by the end was making a WHOLE QUARTER above minimum wage an hour. This was the late 90s. Some unwarranted demands of loyalty included:

- Manager 1 wanted me to do some of the accounting. But I wasn't to tell Bill this was going on. Nope. I am a counter worker. She'd make sure that I go extra pay, which I found odd since only Bill could authorize pay raises. Still a no. Then she asked me to not tell anyone the offer she'd made. I figured that was the end of it, but no. She must have asked someone else and from what I understand, money went "missing." Employee was blamed and fired. Then Bill found out the offer she'd made the other employee. She wasn't authorized to give raises and accounting was her job. He asked me about it and I was not about to cover for her. Good-bye Manager 1.

- Bill and Manager 2 had issues. Bill let Manager 2 money. Manager 2 quit not long afterwards. Bill decided the best way to get him money back was to withhold it from Manager 2's paycheck. Manager 2 sued him (and neither the state nor the federal Gov't were too happy with Bill). Both he and Manager 2 wanted me to testify in court against the other. I was 17 at the time. I told them both that I didn't see anything, I didn't know anything, and they could solve their own problems.

- I was going to college in August. I gave Bill a month of notice. Manager 3 was nice enough, but didn't always think things through. The last night I worked, Bill and Manager 3 had it out. She quit. Bill turns to me and says "I need a manager. You've been here longer than anyone (true) and know how everything works (also true). I'll give you a $1 an hour raise if you'll be the manager." I laughed thinking he was joking. He wasn't. He then ranted about employee loyalty, and how I owed it to him to skip college and stay. Besides, didn't I want to be making money rather than spending it?

I tell you, he was shocked, SHOCKED, when I turned down his offer. I have no idea what happened to Bill, but I do know the ice cream store was no longer there when I came home from college.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: BabyMama on March 19, 2014, 11:24:10 AM
Not workplace, but when my parents were getting divorced, my mom posted on the walls of all the people who were mutual friends with her and my dad, berating them publicly for "standing by him when he had betrayed her so horribly." (paraphrased for length, language, and human decency.) Neither of them are ever on Facebook for more than random likes and to look at pics of family members.

My mom is in her early 60s, by the way. Not in middle school, as her actions may lead one to believe.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lady Snowdon on March 19, 2014, 06:45:15 PM
My office of less than a dozen employees and an owner has a monthly meeting on the same first weekday of the month at 8 am that is mandatory (and relatively new...only a few months old). Unfortunately, that means that the staff members who never work that day or have school either have to come in earlier than they would on a normal work day or just miss the meeting every time. I have a day off every other week on this weekday which means more often then not this meeting is on my day off. It also interferes with my boss' demand that I be out at an appointment AT 9 am every day which could be an hour drive and these run until at least 9.

We've tried to explain that the day or time needs to be moved from time to time or she needs to individually meet with the people who can't be there, but when she gets something in her head she blocks out all reason. This month I moved my day off to the next day as to avoid the conflict, but one staff member who had just turned in notice declined to attend on her day off, one had food poisoning and one can never meet this day due to school.

Boss got upset and has since rescheduled the meeting for this coming weekday, the SAME weekday that causes conflicts, to rehash the exact same agenda. It's again my day off. I have told the office manager I have personal appointments and will not be attending just so Boss can air her grievances again. She will be pissed, but I've stopped caring. I'm getting a massage ;)

Enjoy your massage!  It's totally unreasonable for boss to expect an employee to come to work on their day off for a 1 hour meeting.  Not only does it tie up your morning, it causes a commute to and from work where employee doesn't get paid but for an hour.  My worst boss ever didn't even do this.

When I worked for an airline, the rule was that if a meeting was scheduled on your day off, you automatically got paid for 4 hours of time, and that included overtime if those extra 4 hours tipped you over 40 hours per week.  It was a nice way for the company to acknowledge that a one hour  meeting at an airport meant parking in employee parking (or paying to park if you were running late), making it through security to your area, and then back out again after the meeting.  Also, it kept meetings on a "has to happen" basis.  Managers aren't quite so willing to schedule extra meetings and waste time when it's coming out of their budget!  It was one of the only nice things about working there.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 21, 2014, 09:51:28 PM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on March 21, 2014, 10:13:09 PM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).
I feel very, very sorry for his wife.  >:D
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 21, 2014, 10:29:55 PM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).
I feel very, very sorry for his wife.  >:D
You joke, but he also has a young child.  :(
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on March 21, 2014, 10:45:15 PM
When I was in college, a high profile person in the field once joined my group at the pub.  After a couple of beers, he made a toast: "Everything is research".  It became a traditional toast on pub nights.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Mary Lennox on March 22, 2014, 08:22:55 AM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Jocelyn on March 22, 2014, 10:50:08 AM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.
I still think it's a bit much for an employer to be specifying what employees should be thinking about. Especially on their time off.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Thipu1 on March 22, 2014, 10:58:14 AM
There are Professors who are extremely passionate about their research and who can't understand why everyone else doesn't share their enthusiasm. 

Once, a curator showed me a review of a book on a very esoteric topic. It was on a very minor point of Orange religion theology that would interest perhaps fifty people in the world.

The review began, 'Who would not welcome a thoughtful exploration of X?'. It was obvious that the reviewer shared the enthusiasm of the author.

The curator and I had a good laugh about that one.       
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: DollyPond on March 22, 2014, 11:07:42 AM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.
I still think it's a bit much for an employer to be specifying what employees should be thinking about. Especially on their time off.

I agree with the above…. but have to say that the best grant proposal I ever wrote was done on the beach in the Turks and Caicos (NIH grant funded on the first round of review with no revisions requested).  Yes I was supposed to be on vacation but getting away to a more relaxed setting had a wonderful effect.

That said …  I have run into academics whose entire life revolves around their "work".  All in all they do not seem like happy people in general but try to point that out to them and….major pushback.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 22, 2014, 11:52:16 AM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 22, 2014, 01:33:29 PM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.

Oh believe me, I know that inspiration can strike in the oddest of places...but it's generally not because I decided to go "think about my research" while doing something else--it's because something reminds me of my research, or because I start mulling it over because I want to. What really crossed the line for me was when he started asking for specifics of when I didn't think about my research, as if thinking about something other than research while, e.g., eating dinner, talking to a friend, watching a movie, etc., was something I should have to justify to him. If he meant it as a general concept of "be open to new research ideas when you're not actively working," he chose a horrible way to express it.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on March 22, 2014, 01:59:46 PM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.

I once had a boss who thought we were being "selfish" on our breaks because they were "not about us" and that we should be reading employee manuals, policies and procedures, etc., as we ate. He also wanted us to keep up with industry news on our days off.

Then he wondered why we were stressed and unhappy at our jobs.

Glad I'm not there anymore.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Susiqzer on March 23, 2014, 08:14:45 AM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.
I still think it's a bit much for an employer to be specifying what employees should be thinking about. Especially on their time off.

I agree with the above…. but have to say that the best grant proposal I ever wrote was done on the beach in the Turks and Caicos (NIH grant funded on the first round of review with no revisions requested).  Yes I was supposed to be on vacation but getting away to a more relaxed setting had a wonderful effect.

That said …  I have run into academics whose entire life revolves around their "work".  All in all they do not seem like happy people in general but try to point that out to them and….major pushback.

I have PI who always seems to be submitting grants while he's on vacation somewhere, and also gets great scores. There may be something to that... we should do a study! I will selflessly volunteer for the intervention group, and write from the beach. ;)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: DollyPond on March 23, 2014, 05:12:07 PM
No direct demand, but definitely an implication that we weren't performing up to snuff. Apparently, my boss thinks about our research all the time. He seemed quite surprised to realize that we students don't.  ::) Seriously, he outright asked me if I think about my research at the time, and followed up by asking when I don't think about it.  :o This discussion was touched off by his suggestion that another student should think about his research while hiking in the Grand Canyon for the first time over Spring Break (our research is not in geology, BTW).

I wouldn't take it as bad. He could have meant that new surroundings and experiences could lead to a new good idea for research.
I still think it's a bit much for an employer to be specifying what employees should be thinking about. Especially on their time off.

I agree with the above…. but have to say that the best grant proposal I ever wrote was done on the beach in the Turks and Caicos (NIH grant funded on the first round of review with no revisions requested).  Yes I was supposed to be on vacation but getting away to a more relaxed setting had a wonderful effect.

That said …  I have run into academics whose entire life revolves around their "work".  All in all they do not seem like happy people in general but try to point that out to them and….major pushback.

I have PI who always seems to be submitting grants while he's on vacation somewhere, and also gets great scores. There may be something to that... we should do a study! I will selflessly volunteer for the intervention group, and write from the beach. ;)

Actually a colleague and I thought about starting a grant writing retreat facility in a resort area.  It never got past the fantasy stage because we realized that there would be people Snowflakes out there who would expect us write the grant FOR them while they vacationed.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: dietcokeofevil on March 23, 2014, 07:37:58 PM
Not me, but this happened to my friend from college Amy.  Amy was involved in a program at college that paid for part of her education, but she had to take certain classes for it as well as have a job within the program.  One of the classes she was supposed to take her sophomore year, conflicted with the internship she had to take for her major.  She spoke to the people in charge of the program and they told her it would be no problem and that she could take the class her senior.  Then when senior year comes, they told her that they weren't going to offer that class during the normal school year, but they would definitely offer it the first summer session for her.  So she could take it and be finished with school by June instead of May.  She would still be earning her bachelor's degree in her major in May, but if she didn't complete this one course for that program, then she'd have to pay back her scholarship money. 

Amy accepted a job offer in another state to start after June.  Then here it is the last semester of school and the head of the program comes back and says that will no longer be able to offer that class in May instead she'll have to come back for Fall Semester and take it.   She also wouldn't be able to just take the class, she would have to be registered and taking enough credits as a full time student.  So Amy resigned herself to this and figured she'd just take 12 credits of easy/fun classes and all that.  Then the program informed her that wasn't sufficient, she had to be taking classes for her major and since she'd already earned her Bachelor's she'd have to go ahead and start working on her Master's. 

The one good thing was that Amy was going to be allowed to complete that class at another university close to her job.  So here she was working full-time and going to school full-time to get a Master's degree that she hadn't planned on getting.  When she started up with the program at the new school, the job assignment they gave her was to recruit high school students for the program.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: AmethystAnne on March 23, 2014, 08:42:25 PM
^
Here is the bar that you have to jump over, which keeps getting put higher each time you attempt to hop over it.  >:(
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on March 24, 2014, 12:14:42 PM
To the techs when I was working at a major appliance service center: Oh, yeah, we're firing a third of you and restructuring the pay scale for those remaining so that the certifications that you've worked for mean nothing, but how dare you look for a job before your last day! How disloyal! What do you mean you quit?! That leaves us short for this area! How disloyal!

So many people had to fight for a good recommendation because everyone who quit before the layoff date was put on "do not rehire" status and that's what they told people calling in for recs.  Didn't matter if you gave adequate notice or if you had been working for them for 20+ years, you were a rat if you left before they wanted you to.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on March 24, 2014, 12:57:36 PM
The trick to having creative break throughs while off work is NOT to think about work.  It puts your conscious brain off, and lets your unconscious mind work its magic.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on March 24, 2014, 01:24:55 PM
The trick to having creative break throughs while off work is NOT to think about work.  It puts your conscious brain off, and lets your unconscious mind work its magic.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 24, 2014, 03:25:20 PM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.

I experienced almost this identical situation when my younger sister was hosptalized and actually did die.  One partner was livid that I was not going to be in the office for a conference call (involving probalby 10 lawyers on a large case - I was not the only lawyer at my firm involved) and suggested as a compromise that I call in from my sister's funeral.

I left that firm very soon after.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Chip2 on March 24, 2014, 04:01:38 PM
My team lead once decided to break Army and DoD regulations in a very specific way, and told my two coworkers and me that we would be backing him up on this. My coworkers acquiesced; I didn't. I told the team lead that I wouldn't break the regs and that if insisted we do so that I'd contact our supervisor (who literally sits on the other side of the country). He told me to follow his instructions.

The next morning I notified our supervisor and VERY stringently enforced the regulations while waiting for a reply. When the team lead came in he asked what was going on; I tried to pull him off to the side but he wanted an explanation from me right away. Fine. I clearly explained the problem and how I'd solved it in the lobby of our building in front of a half-dozen other people. It wasn't pretty.

Afterwards the team leader complained to anybody who'd listen that I'd betrayed him, our director, and the local mission, and made him look like an idiot in front of a lot of people. My supervisor had a different take on the issue; now I'm the team lead. Sorry, but my loyalty is to the regulations and making sure things are done right rather than protecting someone's reputation and ego.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 24, 2014, 04:08:50 PM
When I first started working for Big Blue, I attended a big meeting for everyone in I.T.  It was one of those "rah-rah, aren't we awesome" meetings.  One of the big bosses singled out a young guy for special attention, saying proudly "(Young Guy's) wife had a baby two weeks ago, but (Young Guy) only took two days off work.  That's how dedicated he is!"  *cue applause*

I was appalled. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on March 24, 2014, 04:20:38 PM
My brother got a job at a large, multi-national corporation. About a year and a half after he started, my mother got very sick. The doctors told us to get everyone home as quickly as possible.

My brother took a week of vacation to get home--the first vacation he'd taken since he started working there. My mother passed away and Brother took an extra vacation day to attend the funeral. So, year and a half of employment, 20 vacation days earned, he took 6 of them.

Three years later, with an new supervisor, he had his annual review. His new supervisor told him flat out, "You know, I really like you, so I'm going to tell you that you will never advance much further in this company. I'm willing to go to bat for you, but your first supervisor put in your file that you take too much time off for family matters. That's going to hurt you as long as you stay here. I'll do what I can to counteract that, but I thought you should know what's going on."

In contrast, another brother, in the military, was out in the field on manouvers, with a very tough colonel in charge. My dad notified him of Mom's condition, but he had to wait until the official word came down the chain of command that he could get compassionate leave. He expected his colonel to be upset with him, because he had an important role in the exercise/testing that they were doing.

The colonel showed up at his tent, handed him plane tickets, said, "Son, you shouldn't be here. My driver's outside to take you to the airport. Get going. Come back when you can."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Editeer on March 24, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.

I got this on my recentperformance review. One of my boss's "goals" for me for 2014 was to have lunch with a different person every week.  ::) Yeah, my last day is 3/31.  :D
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 24, 2014, 06:35:33 PM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.

I got this on my recentperformance review. One of my boss's "goals" for me for 2014 was to have lunch with a different person every week.  ::) Yeah, my last day is 3/31.  :D

What the...? :o Was your boss actually keeping track of who you ate with every week? :o
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on March 24, 2014, 07:08:10 PM
I was reviewing job postings in my area of work and found one from a new location of a current business. It looked like a great opportunity to get in on the ground floor, but then it said that you must be willing to put in "hours" of personal time off work (evenings and weekends) to help recruit new clients and if you weren't interested in your job becoming your entire life that it's "not the job for you."

I'm sure they'll find some new grad who's desperate to work in the field, but this career has enough trouble with suicide and work-life balance without spending all your unpaid time chatting up potential clients.   
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on March 24, 2014, 07:10:01 PM
  if you weren't interested in your job becoming your entire life that it's "not the job for you."

Based on that pre-requisite, I can't imagine that position appealing to many people.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 24, 2014, 07:19:00 PM
  if you weren't interested in your job becoming your entire life that it's "not the job for you."

Based on that pre-requisite, I can't imagine that position appealing to many people.

You'd be surprised at how many people would jump to take that type of job.  Especially in places that have a depressed job market
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Momiitz on March 24, 2014, 07:59:56 PM
  if you weren't interested in your job becoming your entire life that it's "not the job for you."

Based on that pre-requisite, I can't imagine that position appealing to many people.

You'd be surprised at how many people would jump to take that type of job.  Especially in places that have a depressed job market

Something tells me that this company will try to weasel out of paying for every extra hour the new hire works off the clock.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on March 24, 2014, 08:54:34 PM
I knew an acquaintance who worked for a large national law firm (which incidentally, prided itself on being "family friendly" and "understanding the needs of its employees").

My acquaintance worked very hard, putting in 60-80 hour weeks constantly. Then her father became extremely ill and she had to fly interstate to be with her family. Turned out he needed life-saving surgery. My acquaintance, her mother, and sister all waited at the hospital while her father had his operation. The doctors had told them to brace themselves for the worst.

Then her phone rang. It was her supervisor calling. They said "We want to discuss the XYZ file you were working on before you left. Can you talk now?"

My acquaintance said tearfully "Look, I'm at the hospital with my family. My father's currently undergoing major surgery and we've just been told he might not survive."

There was a pause. Then her supervisor said, in an annoyed tone: "Yes, but can you TALK?" 

Luckily her father DID pull through, but the experience left such a bad taste in my acquaintance's mouth that she left that firm shortly afterwards.

I experienced almost this identical situation when my younger sister was hosptalized and actually did die.  One partner was livid that I was not going to be in the office for a conference call (involving probalby 10 lawyers on a large case - I was not the only lawyer at my firm involved) and suggested as a compromise that I call in from my sister's funeral.

I left that firm very soon after.

Not as bad as both of these stories, but along the same line, I knew an associate who got reamed because he didn't get on a conference call while he was on his honeymoon - hiking to Machu Picchu.  When the associate tried to explain that he wasn't checking his Blackberry at the time and wasn't even sure he got reception, the partner told him that his poor judgment seriously affected his chances for partnership, and bragged that he had only taken three weeks of vacation in the past 20 years.  The associate left the firm soon thereafter. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: KB on March 25, 2014, 05:48:38 AM
My sister worked for a company for 7 years and never called out sick or arrived late, not one time. And yet her supervisor, on her reviews, always marked her attendance as "Satisfactory," instead of the highest rating "Exceeds Expectation." What more could my sister have done apart from showing up every day to get a higher score?  :o

Presumably arrived early and stayed late, without, of course, expecting to be paid for such actions.  ::)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: GreenHall on March 25, 2014, 07:31:45 AM
My sister worked for a company for 7 years and never called out sick or arrived late, not one time. And yet her supervisor, on her reviews, always marked her attendance as "Satisfactory," instead of the highest rating "Exceeds Expectation." What more could my sister have done apart from showing up every day to get a higher score?  :o

In my first review at a new job, my boss explained to me that, to him, Attendance was either Satisfactory (You're here) or Non-Satisfactory (you're not). 

I can see the argument either way, but as long as everyone is held to the same standard, either is okay to me.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: poundcake on March 25, 2014, 08:19:24 AM
I also got one of those "We need you here tonight, we're slammed, you're letting the team down!" when my grandmother died. I worked at a pizza delivery restaurant. They insisted I come in for a two-hour shift, and hour after she passed. And then proceeded to remind me several times that time off had to be requested in advance.

Now that I've lived in other countries and experienced other attitudes about work and career, I think it's appalling that people are demanded 24/7 commitment to their jobs. That's just not healthy, to say nothing about verging on immoral.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ginger G on March 25, 2014, 08:45:11 AM
I had a supervisor tell me that I had "too many personal phone calls".  In the 3 months that I was there prior to this conversation, I had had exactly 2 personal calls - one from my roommate telling me that a pipe had burst in my house, and one from my mother letting me know that a close relative had died.  She made it sound like I was spending half of my days idly chatting on the phone.  I did not stay there much longer after that (for many reasons in addition to this one).
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on March 25, 2014, 09:21:47 AM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.

I got this on my recentperformance review. One of my boss's "goals" for me for 2014 was to have lunch with a different person every week.  ::) Yeah, my last day is 3/31.  :D

What the...? :o Was your boss actually keeping track of who you ate with every week? :o

There has been statistical research (Gallup) done that proves if you have a large number of real friends at work, you are less likely to look elsewhere for employment. If you are always increasing your number of friends in other departments, it can improve departmental relations. So, misguided managers read that survey and think "Oooh, if Shalamar and Editeer make MORE friends, they will stay forever and I can finally overtake the widget department!"

That said, personally, I only eat on site when I have to do so.  I rather have a pb and j down the street at the park.  My only company is typically a novel or a radio talk show.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on March 25, 2014, 09:37:30 AM
The review thing - a friend of mine actually quit over a review. She had an observation from a person outside the district, one from the BOE, and one from her principal.  The principal also performed an evaluation at the same time as the observer from the BOE.  BOE person scored her highly, exceeds expectations and higher while the principal scored her as meeting expectations and lower.  In her post observation interview she was stunned.  The principal pretty much told her that she was marking her down because her scores were too high.

This is a national board certified teacher who has created and implemented countless (successful) programs in the school and district at large.  She has written two books and has been paid by the district to observe and mentor new teachers.  She first tried to protest at the level of the principal and then took it higher.  Principal was shocked when she gave notice and even more shocked when she took all of her materials with her.  There has been a lot of legal back and forth over a program she created and owns as well as the materials she owns.  Principal has been both informally and then formally reprimanded for running her mouth in a derogatory fashion.  My friend has been called very shade of disloyal that you can be called for both leaving and taking her materials with her.  She has also been shunned by other teachers in the school for rocking the boat on evals because all of them are under scrutiny now.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 25, 2014, 09:41:40 AM
When I was unemployed, I finally got an interview with a company I was very interested in, so I was excited.   That is, until the interviewer bragged about how dedicated and hard-working their employees were, saying "If they take any breaks at all, they make sure they're no more than five or ten minutes, then it's back to work.  That includes lunch.  Most of our employees work through lunch." 

I wasn't exactly heartbroken when I didn't get an offer from them!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Chaney on March 25, 2014, 10:00:48 AM
I had a review issue about "excessive phone use" once at a previous job.  It was from one day when  my car died on the way to work, I had to have it towed to a shop who nicely gave me a ride to work.  The calls I was dealing with were the normal this is what's wrong, this is how much it'll be, do we fix it and the (typical for me) follow up of we found this that needs to be fixed too.  I solved it by asking him that if my car had to go in again in the future, would he rather me take the calls on my cell or disrupt the clinic and take up one of those lines?  He did write excused next to it but that wasn't the last issue and I didn't stay too much longer.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Editeer on March 25, 2014, 04:51:12 PM
I had a boss who insisted that, instead of sitting with my work friends during breaks, I should pick random tables in the break room and sit with strangers instead.   He called it networking.  I called it "you can't tell me what to do during my personal time" and ignored him.

I got this on my recentperformance review. One of my boss's "goals" for me for 2014 was to have lunch with a different person every week.  ::) Yeah, my last day is 3/31.  :D

What the...? :o Was your boss actually keeping track of who you ate with every week? :o

I didn't ask her how she planned to keep track.  ;)
 
Actually, though, she probably would have asked me at our weekly meetings. If I said "I had lunch with Shalamar," she'd go ask Shalamar where we went for lunch. So if I lied, I'd get caught. If I just didn't do it, I'd get marked down on next year's review. There was no win.

I like to get to know my coworkers in the course of, y'know, doing work with them. People's personalities come out, you joke around, and that naturally flows into more conversation (and if it doesn't, that's OK too). I hate forced socializing.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on March 25, 2014, 05:37:09 PM
  if you weren't interested in your job becoming your entire life that it's "not the job for you."

Based on that pre-requisite, I can't imagine that position appealing to many people.

You'd be surprised at how many people would jump to take that type of job.  Especially in places that have a depressed job market

Something tells me that this company will try to weasel out of paying for every extra hour the new hire works off the clock.

It's a very specialized job in an area that requires an advanced degree, so Average Joe off the street won't be applying. However, it is a very desirable specialization in our field that was hurt considerably by the downturn in the economy compared to other areas and new grads will be jumping to get anything. I stayed at an extremely low paying job (my assistant without any degree made $7k more than me) for an extra 18 months to have time to get more experience and find something permanent. I can almost 100% guarantee those hours won't be paid and the hire will have to be on call 24 hours per day at least 33% of the time in addition. It's not dissimilar to lawyers graduating these days.

You can bet that whoever takes that job will be using it only as a stepping stone to get experience and qualify for something better, though.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: RegionMom on March 25, 2014, 10:14:44 PM
Years ago, before the dot com bust, DH was at a company that was expanding too quickly.  Before, it had been quirky and fun, and good team work.

Then, they moved into a new, too expensive building, hired too many people too fast, and hired middle management to keep everyone on task. 

No more game nights, no more cool snack times in the company kitchen.  It was corporate now! 

The final straw for DH to look for new work was, the new law of how your cubicle should be.  Before, entire teams had decorated for their department, or individuals would remove a panel to make a wider door, or some would add a "roof" panel to be a 'caver' (one who likes to work on their computer in the dark) or name plates would be edited, for fun.

Well, even though customers NEVER came on the floor, all of this was now WRONG and only if everyone worked in identical cubicle farms would the company be a strong team. 

Work became drudgery and not even six months after moving to the new space, the business went under, leaving several hundred without jobs. 

DH (anonymously) and some friends set up a CareBear in am empty cubicle and labeled it with a management groups', draped the room in crepe paper and went to find new jobs.   

 >:D

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on March 26, 2014, 07:07:37 AM


The final straw for DH to look for new work was, the new law of how your cubicle should be.  Before, entire teams had decorated for their department, or individuals would remove a panel to make a wider door, or some would add a "roof" panel to be a 'caver' (one who likes to work on their computer in the dark) or name plates would be edited, for fun.

Well, even though customers NEVER came on the floor, all of this was now WRONG and only if everyone worked in identical cubicle farms would the company be a strong team. 


 >:D

I read somewhere a few years ago that when you have a manager who gets really concerned about things like how cubicles look, or what's on an employee's desk, or notices on the break room bulletin board, you are dealing with someone who doesn't know how to manage people.

So they manage what they can--small, not very important things that are easily seen and corrected--appearances of people, desktops, cubicles, rooms; the time people arrive and leave; the number of reports--that sort of thing.

A good people manager will allow the people who report to him/her to have some freedom in areas where it won't hurt the company, and might help get the job done.

The company I work for now has some very strict and rigid rules, because we deal with confidential materials. So no cell phones in certain areas, you have to swipe your badge everywhere, and some people have badges that won't let them in to certain areas, that sort of thing.

But they balance that with free coffee, tea and hot chocolate, bringing an ice cream truck around once a month in the summer, an ice cream sundae party after a huge project is finished, a free gym, and lots of other perks. It's one of the more humane companies I've worked for. We hire hundreds of temps during our busy season, and they get to share in all the ice cream and other parties.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: HorseFreak on March 26, 2014, 07:27:58 AM


The final straw for DH to look for new work was, the new law of how your cubicle should be.  Before, entire teams had decorated for their department, or individuals would remove a panel to make a wider door, or some would add a "roof" panel to be a 'caver' (one who likes to work on their computer in the dark) or name plates would be edited, for fun.

Well, even though customers NEVER came on the floor, all of this was now WRONG and only if everyone worked in identical cubicle farms would the company be a strong team. 


 >:D

I read somewhere a few years ago that when you have a manager who gets really concerned about things like how cubicles look, or what's on an employee's desk, or notices on the break room bulletin board, you are dealing with someone who doesn't know how to manage people.

So they manage what they can--small, not very important things that are easily seen and corrected--appearances of people, desktops, cubicles, rooms; the time people arrive and leave; the number of reports--that sort of thing.

A good people manager will allow the people who report to him/her to have some freedom in areas where it won't hurt the company, and might help get the job done.

The company I work for now has some very strict and rigid rules, because we deal with confidential materials. So no cell phones in certain areas, you have to swipe your badge everywhere, and some people have badges that won't let them in to certain areas, that sort of thing.

But they balance that with free coffee, tea and hot chocolate, bringing an ice cream truck around once a month in the summer, an ice cream sundae party after a huge project is finished, a free gym, and lots of other perks. It's one of the more humane companies I've worked for. We hire hundreds of temps during our busy season, and they get to share in all the ice cream and other parties.

I think that's definitely true. My boss freaks out if I keep anything on "my" desk (I have to share with all the assistants who each bring luggage as their purse to work, free food from clients, a microwave and the server). He can't manage worth a dingdangity and so micromanages the equipment and supplies I keep on my desk. In his world it's wrong to leave a small package on the desk for the night to load onto the work vehicles in the morning or to bring to a client. It will be "put away" out of my reach.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: siamesecat2965 on March 26, 2014, 08:56:08 AM


The final straw for DH to look for new work was, the new law of how your cubicle should be.  Before, entire teams had decorated for their department, or individuals would remove a panel to make a wider door, or some would add a "roof" panel to be a 'caver' (one who likes to work on their computer in the dark) or name plates would be edited, for fun.

Well, even though customers NEVER came on the floor, all of this was now WRONG and only if everyone worked in identical cubicle farms would the company be a strong team. 


 >:D

I read somewhere a few years ago that when you have a manager who gets really concerned about things like how cubicles look, or what's on an employee's desk, or notices on the break room bulletin board, you are dealing with someone who doesn't know how to manage people.

So they manage what they can--small, not very important things that are easily seen and corrected--appearances of people, desktops, cubicles, rooms; the time people arrive and leave; the number of reports--that sort of thing.

A good people manager will allow the people who report to him/her to have some freedom in areas where it won't hurt the company, and might help get the job done.

The company I work for now has some very strict and rigid rules, because we deal with confidential materials. So no cell phones in certain areas, you have to swipe your badge everywhere, and some people have badges that won't let them in to certain areas, that sort of thing.

But they balance that with free coffee, tea and hot chocolate, bringing an ice cream truck around once a month in the summer, an ice cream sundae party after a huge project is finished, a free gym, and lots of other perks. It's one of the more humane companies I've worked for. We hire hundreds of temps during our busy season, and they get to share in all the ice cream and other parties.

I think that's definitely true. My boss freaks out if I keep anything on "my" desk (I have to share with all the assistants who each bring luggage as their purse to work, free food from clients, a microwave and the server). He can't manage worth a dingdangity and so micromanages the equipment and supplies I keep on my desk. In his world it's wrong to leave a small package on the desk for the night to load onto the work vehicles in the morning or to bring to a client. It will be "put away" out of my reach.

When I started my current job, my desk, due to not enough cubes, was a desk, in our company library. Which people would come in and out of, walk through, hold meetings in, and sit and read the newspaper in. Which was annoying enough, but I also dealt with a lot of paper. A lot of which now is electronic, but almost 15 years ago, was not. So at any given time, I had piles (neat) of documents on my desk, to be scanned, entered into the database, and so on. I was also in charge of filing everything that went in said library.

The head of my dept used to get twitchy, since he had NOTHING on his desk. nothing at all, and I heard through the grapevine, of course never directly FROM him, that I shouldnt have anything on my desk either. Not even things like a stapler, calender, etc. OH NO. But since he never approached me directly, I never did anything. He was just weird, and ended up being let go, with our president and CFO after some "questionable" financial practices. But had he, I would have simply told him, well, i need these things to do my JOB.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 26, 2014, 10:27:28 AM
Quote
I hate forced socializing.

ME TOO.  My husband and I once went to a big family reunion dinner with our daughters, who were very young at the time (6 and 4).  There were tons of people there we didn't know.  We sat at a big table with a bunch of strangers and waited for the food to be served.  That's when the hostess yelled "Okay, I know you're all sitting with people you know, but this is a chance to get to know someone new!  So, everyone stand up and move three seats to your left!"  Or something like that.  The idea was that you wouldn't be sitting beside your husband, or other people that you knew.  It would have meant that our little girls were no longer sitting beside us, and that simply wasn't happening (they would've panicked and started to cry).  So, we refused, and boy, did we get some dirty looks.

Speaking of what's on desks - my desk tends to be messy.  One of the supervisors at my old job couldn't stand that, and she was often on my case to clean it up.  I wouldn't have minded, but she wasn't even my supervisor, so every time I got a terse "Clean your desk" e-mail from her, I deleted it without comment. 

Someone at my current job commented on my messy desk and said "I can clean that up for you!"  I said coolly "Over my dead body."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: alkira6 on March 26, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
One of my best jobs ( I have had MANY over the past 20 years - I tend to work 2-3 jobs at a time. I have 1 1/2 right now.)  was very much "here are the guidelines, let's demonstrate, okay, get going". 

I worked in a factory making brass pipe fittings.  I was taught how to use the machines, went through safety training, and was helped for a few days until I caught on.  Even though I was working 12 hour shifts I loved this job.  The factory was sweltering most days and they brought a cart through with water and popsicles every hour.  During downtime I could watch TV or I sometimes made rag dolls out of discarded rags with brass shavings for hair.  Overtime was voluntary and you got advance notice.  Quitting times were respected and because of the respect and care they gave their employees they always had volunteers to work rush jobs or OT.

Respecting the employees is what got this company my loyalty. I have sent many people there for jobs.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 26, 2014, 10:46:34 AM
Reminds me of when DH's company or batallion would have what they called "Mandatory Fun Days", where the service member definitely had to attend and unless the spouse and kids had another prior engagement like work, they were expected to arrive and stay a certain amount of time as well.

We'd be watching the clock/watches and as soon as the time was up we were gone.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: RegionMom on March 26, 2014, 12:57:48 PM
When I was a college/teen, I had a fast foods job.  One week, I severely hurt my wrist (not at work) and had it in a sling to protect it. 

Although I had won counter service awards, I was now one-handed, so they put me in the kitchen, doing a task I had not done before- making pancakes.  ??  This was not a one-handed job.  You were supposed to flip and touch each pancake.  (This was in the 80's, but I still felt weird touching other people's pancakes) so I createded a flip with NO hand touching.  I was told that I was doing it wrong.  The "right" way almost popped my stitches in my wrist, and I was a piano acconpanist, so I needed to protect myself.

That was about the end for me. 

Oh, yeah, those front counter awards?  There were several levels, and it was a big deal.  I won the highest level, and had witnesses and praise, but did not get the actual award, because the manager on duty apparently ran the hour long competition without permission from the head manager.

(Something like number and amount of sales, and a special product, in 60 minutes)

So, even though I had won, it was not legit.  I believe it was because I was part-time, and out-did the full time workers.  Taht, and the managers did not like each other.

either way, with my hurt wrist, I could still do drive through, or wipe counters, or do front counter, just slower.  I was not a cooker, had not done any kitchen work.  But, somehow, I was put there, flipping pancakes.

And that was about the end for me. 

It was too far to travel back home for that part-time job.  So, I left.  :)

(I still have a scar on my wrist, but it works jsut fine!)

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Blondie on March 26, 2014, 12:58:06 PM
I had completely forgotten about this- A few summers I worked at a club teaching sailing. This club held a regatta for the kids every summer for charity. The instructors were all expected to work that Saturday, which was met with some grumbles, but was understood. What we were not alright with was having the bosses come down the Thursday beforehand to give us our assignments and mentioned that OF COURSE we would be donating our wages that day, and they had already gone ahead and let payroll know this. The silence was deafening. Not only were we giving up our Saturday to work long hours in the sun with kids who were more than a bit entitled, but we were expected to do it for free. Na-Ah.

Luckily we had a head instructor who was more than willing to stand up for us. We ended up being paid, but for the rest of the summer took flack in the guise of "We just don't understand, we gave them lunch! (two pieces of white bread and a slice of fake cheese...) and they were allowed to stay for the party!" The party is a whole nother story where those who stayed (I did not) ended up as babysitters while the parents got sauced. No amount of telling the board ever got through to them that

1. Yes, we are in college, but we expect to be paid.
2. Most of us give to charities. Usually of our own choosing.
3. They are your kids. You love them, as you should. We do not and are paid accordingly.

And perhaps scariest of all:

4. Not paying us invalidates our insurance. "They will be fine" does not make that go away.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 26, 2014, 02:01:55 PM
Ooh, the "we gave them lunch!" reminds me of when my old job held a mandatory two-hour meeting that went from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. for the entire I.T. department.  They said "We know it covers your lunch break, but not to worry - we'll provide lunch."  Their "lunch" consisted of a can of soda and one half-sandwich each (and they weren't big sandwiches, either).  Not even any veggies to help fill us up.  Our department had some big eaters (including a former linebacker for the Toronto Argos), and we all stared at this "spread" in disbelief.

Management wasn't very happy when half of us left after the meeting to go get some actual food.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on March 26, 2014, 02:13:01 PM
Ooh, the "we gave them lunch!" reminds me of when my old job held a mandatory two-hour meeting that went from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. for the entire I.T. department.  They said "We know it covers your lunch break, but not to worry - we'll provide lunch."  Their "lunch" consisted of a can of soda and one half-sandwich each (and they weren't big sandwiches, either).  Not even any veggies to help fill us up.  Our department had some big eaters (including a former linebacker for the Toronto Argos), and we all stared at this "spread" in disbelief.

Management wasn't very happy when half of us left after the meeting to go get some actual food.

This has to be an IT thing -- I've had other employers do it (always for IT).  They always forgot to order something special for the vegan.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Sirius on March 26, 2014, 07:53:18 PM
I used to work for a manager who had a thing about us taking too long for breaks.  Which we didn't do.  So, I bought a kitchen timer, and I and the other swing shift worker were careful to set it at the beginning of our breaks, and when it dinged, back to work we'd go.  The manager didn't like this - said we were undermining her.  We had 15-minute breaks, and we were just making sure to take only 15 minutes, and that was undermining her?  I don't get it.

This is the same one who took me to task her last day before her retirement because I had called her by her first name...as did everyone else in the department. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 26, 2014, 09:03:18 PM
When our church had a pancake dinner on Shrove Tuesday, my youngest was running around and one of the younger teen girls was helping by shepherding him back to me when he'd get away.  I thanked her for her help and she said "Oh I've been doing it all night, it's okay." My first thought was all the stories here at ehell of kids getting put in that position even when they'd come to partake in the activity so I asked if she'd had a chance to eat yet, herself.

As it turns out she had eaten before she came cause she had intended to help out with the little ones so parents could eat.  I still kept an eye on my own little man cause the way he was bouncing off the walls, you'd never know all he had was two pancakes with no syrup.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ceallach on March 26, 2014, 10:15:41 PM


The final straw for DH to look for new work was, the new law of how your cubicle should be.  Before, entire teams had decorated for their department, or individuals would remove a panel to make a wider door, or some would add a "roof" panel to be a 'caver' (one who likes to work on their computer in the dark) or name plates would be edited, for fun.

Well, even though customers NEVER came on the floor, all of this was now WRONG and only if everyone worked in identical cubicle farms would the company be a strong team. 


 >:D

I read somewhere a few years ago that when you have a manager who gets really concerned about things like how cubicles look, or what's on an employee's desk, or notices on the break room bulletin board, you are dealing with someone who doesn't know how to manage people.

So they manage what they can--small, not very important things that are easily seen and corrected--appearances of people, desktops, cubicles, rooms; the time people arrive and leave; the number of reports--that sort of thing.

A good people manager will allow the people who report to him/her to have some freedom in areas where it won't hurt the company, and might help get the job done.

The company I work for now has some very strict and rigid rules, because we deal with confidential materials. So no cell phones in certain areas, you have to swipe your badge everywhere, and some people have badges that won't let them in to certain areas, that sort of thing.

But they balance that with free coffee, tea and hot chocolate, bringing an ice cream truck around once a month in the summer, an ice cream sundae party after a huge project is finished, a free gym, and lots of other perks. It's one of the more humane companies I've worked for. We hire hundreds of temps during our busy season, and they get to share in all the ice cream and other parties.

I think that's definitely true. My boss freaks out if I keep anything on "my" desk (I have to share with all the assistants who each bring luggage as their purse to work, free food from clients, a microwave and the server). He can't manage worth a dingdangity and so micromanages the equipment and supplies I keep on my desk. In his world it's wrong to leave a small package on the desk for the night to load onto the work vehicles in the morning or to bring to a client. It will be "put away" out of my reach.

I agree.   I think if I had *time* to micromanage such absurd little details of my employees lives, then I'd either not be getting things done that need doing, or my job would be pointless.   Either way, a bad manager. 

I once worked at a job with a super strict dress code.  The boss sat next to me and would listen to and comment on every phone conversation I had (work calls) and everything I did.   The boss was also a clock watcher who would notice if you were 30 seconds late.    I'm an obsessively punctual person anyway, so the effect of all this supervision was just to send me completely over the edge.  I spent so much time focusing on and worrying about getting in trouble for being late back from lunch or wearing the wrong stockings that I spent less time focusing on work.  I still performed well (they were *shocked* when I resigned) but it was incredibly stressful.  I lasted 6 months under the constant scrutiny, and I saw many others come and go in that time also.  After I left I found out they finally moved that manager into a position with no staff, seeing she clearly had no ability to retain them.

My philosophy is if I hire good people and set clear expectations then they will be on time and they will be professional.  If they're not, I can performance manage them.  But there's nothing to be gained from wasting my time (and theirs!) on constant daily scrutiny.  I don't see the point of hiring people if I can't trust them with the basics.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: jedikaiti on March 27, 2014, 01:35:33 AM
Ooh, the "we gave them lunch!" reminds me of when my old job held a mandatory two-hour meeting that went from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. for the entire I.T. department.  They said "We know it covers your lunch break, but not to worry - we'll provide lunch."  Their "lunch" consisted of a can of soda and one half-sandwich each (and they weren't big sandwiches, either).  Not even any veggies to help fill us up.  Our department had some big eaters (including a former linebacker for the Toronto Argos), and we all stared at this "spread" in disbelief.

Management wasn't very happy when half of us left after the meeting to go get some actual food.

This has to be an IT thing -- I've had other employers do it (always for IT).  They always forgot to order something special for the vegan.

Every place I have known to have IT meal meetings has ordered a TON of food. One place that had regular Friday afternoon meetings even brought in beer. Who the heck has a mealtime meeting for ANYONE and thinks a can of soda and HALF a sandwich is LUNCH?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 27, 2014, 05:38:17 AM
My guesses:

1) Someone who's on a diet and expects everyone else to eat the way they do.
2) Someone who thinks coworkers ought to be on a diet.
3) Someone who has a light appetite that day and expects everyone else ought to be as filled up by half a sandwich as they are.
4) Someone who's just cheap.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kherbert05 on March 27, 2014, 05:54:48 AM
Lunches  -


Went to a science staff development at the remotest high school in our district. Not many places to eat, but I was looking forward to going to a favorite restaurant out that way. Usually we have 1.5 hours for lunch on staff development because the district overwelms the restaurants in the towns.


They decided to cater the staff development - but the restaurant is one I refuse to do business with because the owners are raging bigots. They also use peanut oil. I told the person in charge that I would have to run to sandwich place down the street. I was told I would be marked absent if I left for any reason. She went to the person setting up the food who informed them that the food did not have peanut oil and it didn't matter because their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people. I called HR was was told go get  a sandwich put her on the line you will not be marked absent. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: LadyClaire on March 27, 2014, 08:06:03 AM
When I started working at my current job, the CEO was a much-beloved older gentleman who was really funny and caring towards all of the employees. I worked in that office, and we always had a good balance of fun and work. Then he retired. The new CEO, on his first day, gathered the three assistants in the office and said "I think there could be fewer of you. Just remember that".

He was an extreme micro-manager. He decreed that there would be no idle chat in the office ever. No one from other departments was allowed to even stop and say "hello" or "good morning" to us. He banned the use of certain words in the office because he didn't like them (these were not offensive or inappropriate words). He was constantly picking on everyone and the whole atmosphere changed. I quickly transferred out of there. Shortly after I left, he implemented having to sign out to go to the bathroom, and a sign that said "QUIET PLEASE - NO TALKING" was installed on the front counter. People weren't allowed to so much as take a sip of water at their desk (meanwhile he ate granola in his office and spilled so much on the floor that mice moved in).

He was eventually fired for various reasons. The day the e-mail announcement that he was no longer with the company came out, you could hear a cheer go up in every office.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 27, 2014, 08:30:44 AM
Quote
Who the heck has a mealtime meeting for ANYONE and thinks a can of soda and HALF a sandwich is LUNCH?

My guesses:

1) Someone who's on a diet and expects everyone else to eat the way they do.
2) Someone who thinks coworkers ought to be on a diet.
3) Someone who has a light appetite that day and expects everyone else ought to be as filled up by half a sandwich as they are.
4) Someone who's just cheap.

Or someone who didn't count, and just said, "Oh, get a dozen sandwiches" without realizing how many people were in the group.

Or someone who called the deli and said, "lunch for 25," and they said, "OK, potato salad and stuff?" and [she] said "no," and they provided the sandwiches that normally come w/ sides and so are fewer, but no sides.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on March 27, 2014, 09:29:29 AM
There was a branch of the DMV, a beautiful, lovely branch.  It was my first training branch.  Small, tucked away, wonderful customers.  The manager who trained me retired and I had been reassigned to a permanent branch.

Well, the new manager was hated by her staff.  I went there on a relief assignment and found that she was a micro manager beyond belief.  Staff was not allowed to talk to each other, unless it was strictly work related, and even then she wasn't happy because they should ask her first.

In her office, I pulled out her supply of plastic bank deposit bags, and found that she had filled out the deposit date on each one for at least a year in the future.  Bank deposit slips also had the dates filled in for at least a year.

Now one of the things that our central office wants is for us to be friendly and helpful to customers.  It is very hard to greet strangers in a friendly and welcoming manner when you are required to act like a robot.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: StuffedGrapeLeaves on March 27, 2014, 10:15:35 AM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 27, 2014, 10:54:37 AM
I used to work for a company that provided drug stores with their wares - be it medicine, candy, shampoo, whatever.  We had a huge warehouse, and we performed inventory four times a year.  Inventory days used to be kind of fun, even though they were held on Saturday - we'd all wear grungy clothes, someone would bring in some tunes, the boss would buy everyone pizza, and there was kind of a giggly party atmosphere.

Then the Big Boss decided that we weren't being serious enough.  Mistakes could be made, darn it!  (They weren't, at least, no more than the usual "Oops, I counted four boxes of pens instead of five.")   So, no more music, no more pizza, and DEFINITELY no talking.  It was an 8-hour day comprised of climbing up and down shelves and counting in silence.  It was deadly.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kategillian on March 27, 2014, 11:53:59 AM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: o_gal on March 27, 2014, 12:01:06 PM
Quote
Who the heck has a mealtime meeting for ANYONE and thinks a can of soda and HALF a sandwich is LUNCH?

Or someone who didn't count, and just said, "Oh, get a dozen sandwiches" without realizing how many people were in the group.

This. We had a similar situation in a previous job. A huge number of young college grads had been hired in the previous 2 years. We were all invited to a lunch to meet and network with the young college grads they had hired the 3rd year (it was a deliberate 3 year hiring push). All told, lunch was being planned for approximately 80 people.

Someone called up a local pizza chain and bought the pizzas from there. From what I can tell, the person must not have been familiar with how they cut their pizzas. Instead of in pie wedges, they are cut in little squares. The best we could figure out afterward is that someone called and asked how many slices are in an extra large pizza and got told about 24. So they went ahead with the order.

6 pizzas. For 80 people.

We also got a can of soda but that was it. Even if it had been 24 pie wedge slices per pizza, that was still skimpy. Most of us went out and got lunch after they fed us lunch.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on March 27, 2014, 12:26:36 PM
My guesses:

1) Someone who's on a diet and expects everyone else to eat the way they do.
2) Someone who thinks coworkers ought to be on a diet.
3) Someone who has a light appetite that day and expects everyone else ought to be as filled up by half a sandwich as they are.
4) Someone who's just cheap.

I'll take option 4 for $500, Alex.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 27, 2014, 12:43:01 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?

Because allergies are all in your head and you're just saying that to get attention.   ::) >:(   I swear by the time I was 12 or so, I'd heard that EXACT phrase or some variation thereof at least 5 million times. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Alli8098 on March 27, 2014, 12:51:05 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?

Because allergies are all in your head and you're just saying that to get attention.   ::) >:(   I swear by the time I was 12 or so, I'd heard that EXACT phrase or some variation thereof at least 5 million times.

My ex friend/boss has this in his head.  I am lactose intolerant, and citrus intolerant (rare but exists and is genetic in my family) but he thinks I can be "cured".  Every time he would have us over for dinner the meal frequently would have tomatoes and large amounts of dairy.  I would try to fill up on the veggie tray we would usually bring.  And it was the same thing if he provided food for work.  He would tell me I just needed to keep eating more and more every day of the foods I was allergic/intolerant too and I would get better.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Delete My Account on March 27, 2014, 12:52:49 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?

Because allergies are all in your head and you're just saying that to get attention.   ::) >:(   I swear by the time I was 12 or so, I'd heard that EXACT phrase or some variation thereof at least 5 million times.

My ex friend/boss has this in his head.  I am lactose intolerant, and citrus intolerant (rare but exists and is genetic in my family) but he thinks I can be "cured".  Every time he would have us over for dinner the meal frequently would have tomatoes and large amounts of dairy.  I would try to fill up on the veggie tray we would usually bring.  And it was the same thing if he provided food for work.  He would tell me I just needed to keep eating more and more every day of the foods I was allergic/intolerant too and I would get better.

Whaddya gotta do to prove to them you're not faking it? Be in the throes of a near-death allergy attack?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Shalamar on March 27, 2014, 12:55:20 PM
Quote
We also got a can of soda

For a second I thought you meant one can of soda for 80 people to share to go with your 6 pizzas, and I thought "Yeah, that figures."
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: rachellenore on March 27, 2014, 12:56:24 PM
I work retail. My company cut all of our potential hours down to 24.5 (our manager who announced it literally said "Blame Obama") so that they would never have to give us insurance. My normal schedule is 7:30 am until 12:00 pm Mon through Fri. Over Christmas season last year they had us working shorter days so that we could also come in on Saturday. So 6 days a week, barely above min wage, in a freezing stock room. And they wondered why morale was low.

This month, amazingly, my morale is even lower. We are never told what time we can clock out until 10 minutes befirehand, despite management getting the stock forecast the night before. We have been out of trash bags for almost 2 months. We have been low and now run out of certain hangers because ordering more is not in the budget. We have a new manager who tells us he's disappointed that we can't process fast enough, despite knowing were understaffed.  I hate this place.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Alli8098 on March 27, 2014, 12:57:39 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?

Because allergies are all in your head and you're just saying that to get attention.   ::) >:(   I swear by the time I was 12 or so, I'd heard that EXACT phrase or some variation thereof at least 5 million times.

My ex friend/boss has this in his head.  I am lactose intolerant, and citrus intolerant (rare but exists and is genetic in my family) but he thinks I can be "cured".  Every time he would have us over for dinner the meal frequently would have tomatoes and large amounts of dairy.  I would try to fill up on the veggie tray we would usually bring.  And it was the same thing if he provided food for work.  He would tell me I just needed to keep eating more and more every day of the foods I was allergic/intolerant too and I would get better.

Whaddya gotta do to prove to them you're not faking it? Be in the throes of a near-death allergy attack?

I know!  I am lucky that these are only intolerance's for me.  I can have very small amounts of dairy and something citrus every day but only small amounts.  And since I had to have my gallbladder removed this year I have to watch it even more as these "intolerance's" have gotten worse since.  My ex friend/boss's attitude about this and other things are one of the reasons I quit that job.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 27, 2014, 01:03:46 PM
My guesses:

1) Someone who's on a diet and expects everyone else to eat the way they do.
2) Someone who thinks coworkers ought to be on a diet.
3) Someone who has a light appetite that day and expects everyone else ought to be as filled up by half a sandwich as they are.
4) Someone who's just cheap.

I'll take option 4 for $500, Alex.

As a tangent, I used to work in a doctor's office and every Thursday (this changed after a while) we'd have vendors come in and pay for meals for us but it was usually someone on the front line who would either order or let the vendor know what people would eat.

One girl was going through a phase of not drinking soda.  Seriously she had a water drinking contest to encourage hydration, and told someone that flavored water didn't count towards their total.   (honestly it was a mean-girl move as she just did not like this woman)

Anyway, she told the person ordering the drinks "no soda, just lemonade, water and tea"

When we all found out she'd pushed this on us, people were grumbling at her and going down to the little deli downstairs to buy our pop of choice and she was no longer allowed to order for the rest of us.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kategillian on March 27, 2014, 01:28:53 PM
My guesses:

1) Someone who's on a diet and expects everyone else to eat the way they do.
2) Someone who thinks coworkers ought to be on a diet.
3) Someone who has a light appetite that day and expects everyone else ought to be as filled up by half a sandwich as they are.
4) Someone who's just cheap.

I'll take option 4 for $500, Alex.

As a tangent, I used to work in a doctor's office and every Thursday (this changed after a while) we'd have vendors come in and pay for meals for us but it was usually someone on the front line who would either order or let the vendor know what people would eat.

One girl was going through a phase of not drinking soda.  Seriously she had a water drinking contest to encourage hydration, and told someone that flavored water didn't count towards their total.   (honestly it was a mean-girl move as she just did not like this woman)

Anyway, she told the person ordering the drinks "no soda, just lemonade, water and tea"

When we all found out she'd pushed this on us, people were grumbling at her and going down to the little deli downstairs to buy our pop of choice and she was no longer allowed to order for the rest of us.

Ugh, I LOATHE when people make personal choices for their health or whatnot, and then try to force those choices onto you.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Outdoor Girl on March 27, 2014, 01:39:45 PM
We have a couple of vegetarians in the office, one of whom is normally responsible for ordering in food on the rare occasions we have it.  So of 5 or 6 pizzas ordered for 17 people, 2 are vegetarian.  Which seems like a much higher percentage than she should order, right?

Except when she used to order only one, it seemed everyone wanted at least one piece of the vegetarian pie and it was touch and go whether or not the vegetarians would get their pizza.

But this same person once goofed, on the advice of one of the supervisors about her same size, not ordering enough pizza.  They'd calculated 2 slices per person, rounded up.  Forgetting that we have a number of big guys who would eat 3 or 4 slices.  It hasn't happened again.  The last time pizza got ordered, she was worried there wouldn't be enough because she miscalculated the number of slices per pie but it worked out - only a couple slices left over.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: SamiHami on March 27, 2014, 02:06:07 PM
Where I used to work we would order 1/3 pizza per person and that generally worked. I was ordering for groups of 80-120, though, and never knew in advance how many would actually show up. Sometimes we ended up with some extras but the "powers that be" preferred that we have too much than too little. It ws kinda nice b/c we were able to go to the ERs (this was a hospital) and give staff there free food which they always loved. And I was usually allowed to take one home for myself and DH and give some to poor starving  ::) medical students.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Onyx_TKD on March 27, 2014, 04:39:41 PM
We have a couple of vegetarians in the office, one of whom is normally responsible for ordering in food on the rare occasions we have it.  So of 5 or 6 pizzas ordered for 17 people, 2 are vegetarian.  Which seems like a much higher percentage than she should order, right?

Except when she used to order only one, it seemed everyone wanted at least one piece of the vegetarian pie and it was touch and go whether or not the vegetarians would get their pizza.

But this same person once goofed, on the advice of one of the supervisors about her same size, not ordering enough pizza.  They'd calculated 2 slices per person, rounded up.  Forgetting that we have a number of big guys who would eat 3 or 4 slices.  It hasn't happened again.  The last time pizza got ordered, she was worried there wouldn't be enough because she miscalculated the number of slices per pie but it worked out - only a couple slices left over.

Only if you assume that all omnivores will prefer the pizza with meat. As an omnivore, if I have to pick a limited number of pizza toppings, I will almost always go for the vegetable toppings first, then for the less typical pizza meat toppings (e.g., chicken). Typical meat pizza toppings, e.g., sausage and pepperoni, are not meats that I commonly eat, and I enjoy them only in moderation. IME, store-bought meat pizzas usually way overdo the meat for my taste, e.g., every square inch covered in pepperoni. I find that the pizzas billed as "veggie" pizzas are usually delicious and often feature lovely toppings that you don't see on most of the other pizzas (e.g., slices of fresh tomato). Also, cheese pizzas (another possible vegetarian option) seem pretty popular in general. So I'm not at all surprised that the non-vegetarians would prefer the vegetarian options as well.

I used to work at a place that would sometimes order in pizza for the team when we were working on certain aspects of the project. There would generally be one veggie pizza for the two vegetarians and several meat-topped pizzas. Everyone waited for the vegetarians to get their share of the veggie pizzas first because we knew it was their only option, but there were always plenty of people willing to snap up any leftover slices. I always wished they'd up the number of veggie pizzas, like your coworker did. (I suspect that veggie pizza may have been the most expensive of the pizzas ordered, and may have been the reason they only ordered enough for the actual vegetarians.)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Outdoor Girl on March 27, 2014, 05:09:58 PM
Nope - these were all the same price.  It's just our office is full of self subscribed 'meatatarians' and she didn't realize the some of us were more omnivorous.  It worked out perfectly the last time - a couple of meat pieces left, a couple of veggie pieces left.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 27, 2014, 05:31:38 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this? 

Truly unbelievable. This person was willing to let another human being go into anaphylactic shock and possibly die because they didn't want her to leave on her lunch break?

Because allergies are all in your head and you're just saying that to get attention.   ::) >:(   I swear by the time I was 12 or so, I'd heard that EXACT phrase or some variation thereof at least 5 million times.

My ex friend/boss has this in his head.  I am lactose intolerant, and citrus intolerant (rare but exists and is genetic in my family) but he thinks I can be "cured".  Every time he would have us over for dinner the meal frequently would have tomatoes and large amounts of dairy.  I would try to fill up on the veggie tray we would usually bring.  And it was the same thing if he provided food for work.  He would tell me I just needed to keep eating more and more every day of the foods I was allergic/intolerant too and I would get better.

Whaddya gotta do to prove to them you're not faking it? Be in the throes of a near-death allergy attack?

Yup!  For me it was hives. Big fat purple hives all over my body
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kherbert05 on March 27, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this?
This company is owned by some people with very strong religious views. They are antiscience. I think part of it is fueled by the verse I've had used on me before. Something about if you love and trust god you have nothing to fear from your food. (Honestly someone starts that I go into flight or flight mode and never eat anything they handle ever again). They also claim that the oil is so pure it has NO proteins in it and proteins are what you react to with the peanut allergy.


That said - I've encountered few people with that attitude
1. Preschool teachers
2. 2 classmates
3. 2 coworkers
4. Restaurants that lied about food or simply didn't really ask.


and then there were 2 classmates that honestly tried to kill me. As in smeared peanut butter on me and said "lets watch Kimberly die" and the other put peanuts in my bed on a class trip and said something similar.


That one I had to be restrained because I went blind red mad. I had nearly eaten food with peanuts in it after asking in the restaurant earlier and being lied to. So I was ticked off and trying to call family to pick me up before her "prank". I suspect both are Sociopaths. He is in jail for assaulting and nearly killing several women in a way that he had been threatening since Kinder (5 - 6 years old) He had other symptoms including bomb building in elementary and other cruelty. She regularly expressed the oppinion that other people didn't count were there for her use.


The vast majority of people including strangers on planes, trains, and buses go out of their way to protect, me when told of the danger.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Elfmama on March 27, 2014, 07:55:36 PM
their peanut oil was safe for peanut allergic people.

This really hurts my brain - how can anyone actually believe this?
Because it's not peanuts, it's OIL, silly!  ::)  (Eyeroll at them, not StuffedGrapeLeaves or kherbert.)

Mustard allergy here.  I had a counter girl argue that the honey mustard they'd smeared all over my chicken sandwich wouldn't bother me, because it wasn't mustard, it was honey mustard.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on March 27, 2014, 09:19:22 PM
My maternal grandfather was allergic to honey.  Grandma didn't quite believe it until he had a reaction after eating a cookie that they didn't know until the next day had honey in it (an aunt or my mother as a teenager - not sure who - made it and left them on a plate in the kitchen & they both had one on their way through the kitchen that evening).  His reaction occurred around midnight...and kept Grandma up most of the night....

Fortunately, he never had anyone smear HONEY mustard on his food because he didn't eat out much after the late 1980s (retired) and there was no HONEY anything in their kitchen at home by then.  He died in 2001, so HONEY mustard was available, but his doctor & his wife kept him from getting any at home or in the hospital.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on March 27, 2014, 09:39:33 PM
My mother and I are also allergic to honey.  It's miserable sometimes.  It's really difficult to avoid now.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: VorFemme on March 28, 2014, 09:00:28 AM
Yeah, because honey mustard or peanut butter with honey or butter & honey spread are NOT HONEY, they are the other ingredient.  Unless you are going to react to the other ingredient, then the keyword is HONEY, which the assumption seems to be that adding something means that you aren't going to react to the mixture. 

I am NOT sensitive to horseradish - it's just too hot for my taste.  But I should still eat my prime rib with horse radish and my seafood with cocktail sauce (essentially tomato catsup with horseradish added).  No - I want horseradish kept off my plate, off my food, and out of my face...thank you for suggesting that something is usually served with X, but I prefer D. 

(((grumble)))

I have run into one salad leafy veggie that made my mouth itch - but can't find out what it was (Mom forgot what seeds she'd planted where in the garden - during a drought - so it might have been that whatever it was usually wouldn't cause a reaction but due to lack of water, whatever it was had been concentrated...and a dill, cucumber, & Greek yogurt combination dish at a Greek restaurant).  Since I never liked dill pickles - I've been avoiding the first two ingredients in the recipe for about fifty years...I will not be eating anything with raw cucumbers & dill now, due to that one itchy mouth reaction....I like yogurt....and had some earlier this week.  No itching by itself...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on March 28, 2014, 09:24:45 AM
Honey sneaks into a lot of products, like canned broth and canned meat stock too.  I get wheezy and flulike with trace exposures, but the full on stuff is a very strong respiratory reaction and blistering if it gets on my skin.

My mother reacts much worse than I do.  It puts a lot of chain store restaurants right out of the running.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Valentines Mommy on March 28, 2014, 09:28:27 AM
Yep, honey is not a friend of mine. I don't enjoy hives. Yet no one seems to take me seriously when I ask.

As for loyalty, a few weeks ago a project I was working on abruptly ended. As in stop what you are doing, gather your things and exit the building. Fine, it happens. I was getting ready to move to another project anyway as we were told, finished or not, work was to cease close of business that evening. A few hours later, the project manager calls me in a panic because the client changed his mind and wanted me to resume work ASAP. I said fine, I can work a certain amount of limited hours as I had been released by the client and was scheduled to move on to something else.

I got scolded for being disloyal. How could I take another project when I knew the client might need me. On and on until I said: I was released. I am doing you and the client a favor. Do you want my help or not? I went back in and completed the project that night. The project wrapped when the client wanted it to. The project manager and the client were happy.

Even so, I was not pleased at all to have my loyalty and professionalism questioned. I fulfilled my obligations and beyond. I have to look out for my own interests since as a contractor, no one else does. From now on, if I might be needed past the time contracted, I need to get paid to stay available.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Miss March on March 28, 2014, 01:26:50 PM
I was once working in a building where the fire alarms went off, and my supervisor told everyone to stay at their stations while they looked into whether it was a credible threat.  :o

Sad to say, myself and many others DID stay at our stations, but within 10 minutes, firetrucks arrived, and at that point we all just got up and quickly filed out without asking permission from any one.

In the end, it was nothing serious, but it was unbelievable to me that management would for one second ask people to stay in a building when there was even a question of a fire emergency occurring. Several complaints were lodged with the upper level management regarding this, and from then on, the policy was that we were to evacuate at any alarm. But to the best of my knowledge, the supervisor never faced any consequences for acting as she did.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Klein Bottle on March 28, 2014, 02:58:29 PM
I was once working in a building where the fire alarms went off, and my supervisor told everyone to stay at their stations while they looked into whether it was a credible threat.  :o

Sad to say, myself and many others DID stay at our stations, but within 10 minutes, firetrucks arrived, and at that point we all just got up and quickly filed out without asking permission from any one.

In the end, it was nothing serious, but it was unbelievable to me that management would for one second ask people to stay in a building when there was even a question of a fire emergency occurring. Several complaints were lodged with the upper level management regarding this, and from then on, the policy was that we were to evacuate at any alarm. But to the best of my knowledge, the supervisor never faced any consequences for acting as she did.

I have no words, except to say, I'm glad you guys were smarter than the supervisor!
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ms_Cellany on March 28, 2014, 04:48:26 PM
My employer sent out a notice that we should evacuate the buildings because there was a gunman outside.

We disregarded the order, and they later apologized.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 28, 2014, 04:53:28 PM
My employer sent out a notice that we should evacuate the buildings because there was a gunman outside.

We disregarded the order, and they later apologized.

I think my brain just broke
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: whatsanenigma on March 28, 2014, 05:14:27 PM
My employer sent out a notice that we should evacuate the buildings because there was a gunman outside.

We disregarded the order, and they later apologized.

I think my brain just broke

Okay, I guess I could see how that could happen.  Most emergencies, you do evacuate the building.   And the specific experience of  a gunman is (hopefully!) pretty rare.  So in a panic, I can see how that would get mixed up.

But I'm glad everybody else had the sense to do what was actually right.  And I hope that whoever is in charge will use this as a wakeup call to make a better plan for what to say in any future emergencies and any other training that might be needed.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on March 29, 2014, 12:43:54 AM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: zyrs on March 29, 2014, 03:18:54 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

 :o - that is all I have to say about that.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Luci on March 29, 2014, 07:58:01 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

 :o - that is all I have to say about that.

How could they 'refuse to let you leave'? That almost happened to me, but I just went out the fire exit and up one flight to the parking lot. There was no problem, but I was not reprimanded, either. I became kind of a hero for about 2 minutes. Oh! I was working for an insurance company at the time, home office.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: gmatoy on March 29, 2014, 08:38:20 PM
 I was going to school in Queens, NY. We were required to wear uniforms (think nursing...it is close enough.) One night there was a horrible fire in a nightclub on our block. We had to evacuate in minutes, think "get out with what is on your back." We went and stayed with friends. I got up in the morning, borrowed clothes and went into school.

 My instructor asked why I wasn't in uniform. I told her that the fire that on the front page of most of the papers was on my block, we had been ordered to evacuate, no time for grabbing clothes. Her response?  "This will cause your grades to suffer."  I got up, went to the Dean and made my case.

 The instructor was shocked that I went over her head! I said, "I'm going to school on my GI bill benefits; this could cause this school to lose a lot of money. I had a valid reason for not being my uniform and you knew that."

My classmates thought that she would try to get even, but I think she knew better than to have a test of wills. I finished the program and never worked in that field. The schooling killed my interest in the entire field.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: wolfie on March 29, 2014, 08:55:12 PM
I was once working in a building where the fire alarms went off, and my supervisor told everyone to stay at their stations while they looked into whether it was a credible threat.  :o

Sad to say, myself and many others DID stay at our stations, but within 10 minutes, firetrucks arrived, and at that point we all just got up and quickly filed out without asking permission from any one.

In the end, it was nothing serious, but it was unbelievable to me that management would for one second ask people to stay in a building when there was even a question of a fire emergency occurring. Several complaints were lodged with the upper level management regarding this, and from then on, the policy was that we were to evacuate at any alarm. But to the best of my knowledge, the supervisor never faced any consequences for acting as she did.
\

In my company not leaving when a fire alarm sounds means you can be written up for it.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: darling on March 29, 2014, 09:21:59 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

 :o - that is all I have to say about that.

Not cool, and not legal. I'm sure the fines they got were pretty stupendous, and well deserved. I hope whomever was responsible for that decision was severely reprimanded for putting everyone in severe danger.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: nuit93 on March 30, 2014, 05:55:49 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

Have none of these people heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Figgie on March 30, 2014, 06:18:12 PM
Many years ago (back in the dark ages) :) I was a student nurse.  And my pediatric nursing instructor stood in front of the class and told the entire class that it was completely and totally our responsibility if there was a fire in the nursery or pediatrics unit to do whatever we had to do in order to save the babies/children.

I remember thinking at the time, that while I would do everything that I could safely do to save whoever I could, I wasn't going to risk my life to save anyone else.  While I was willing to do what any decent person would do, I didn't think that my being a nurse meant that I owed the hospital that employed me my very life because of a fire.

And the nursing instructor did really believe that it was a nurses responsibility to save others, even if it cost them their own lives.  We got to hear story after story about that happening, probably because she thought it would inspire all of us to do the same thing.   
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: whatsanenigma on March 30, 2014, 06:43:03 PM
Many years ago (back in the dark ages) :) I was a student nurse.  And my pediatric nursing instructor stood in front of the class and told the entire class that it was completely and totally our responsibility if there was a fire in the nursery or pediatrics unit to do whatever we had to do in order to save the babies/children.

I remember thinking at the time, that while I would do everything that I could safely do to save whoever I could, I wasn't going to risk my life to save anyone else.  While I was willing to do what any decent person would do, I didn't think that my being a nurse meant that I owed the hospital that employed me my very life because of a fire.

And the nursing instructor did really believe that it was a nurses responsibility to save others, even if it cost them their own lives.  We got to hear story after story about that happening, probably because she thought it would inspire all of us to do the same thing.   

And don't hospitals have plans in place for just that type of event? So as many patients can be saved as possible while not putting the employees at excessive risk?  I would think any good nurse would know this procedure well and not be just running around willy-nilly during a fire and grabbing babies.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: kherbert05 on March 30, 2014, 07:01:14 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

Have none of these people heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?
When I was five my Dad was burned in a kitchen fire in front of me. I have a fear of fire/being burned.

Unless the words "The fire department has instructed us to stay put until rescuers get here" or something similar were uttered - I would be leaving and No-one would be stopping even if I had to move them. I would also be looking seriously into pressing charges for endangering my life.  I think safety over etiquette gets way over used but holding someone in a burning building crosses that line by a mile.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Elfmama on March 30, 2014, 07:20:41 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

Have none of these people heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?
When I was five my Dad was burned in a kitchen fire in front of me. I have a fear of fire/being burned.

Unless the words "The fire department has instructed us to stay put until rescuers get here" or something similar were uttered - I would be leaving and No-one would be stopping even if I had to move them. I would also be looking seriously into pressing charges for endangering my life.  I think safety over etiquette gets way over used but holding someone in a burning building crosses that line by a mile.
During 9/11, when the first building was hit a lot of people in the second building wanted to evacuate.  Their bosses told them to stay put, because the "accident" happened in the other building, not theirs.  The people who left over the bosses' objections lived. Most of the ones who sat down and went back to work died, because they were above the level of the second plane strike.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Otterpop on March 30, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

Have none of these people heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?
When I was five my Dad was burned in a kitchen fire in front of me. I have a fear of fire/being burned.

Unless the words "The fire department has instructed us to stay put until rescuers get here" or something similar were uttered - I would be leaving and No-one would be stopping even if I had to move them. I would also be looking seriously into pressing charges for endangering my life.  I think safety over etiquette gets way over used but holding someone in a burning building crosses that line by a mile.
During 9/11, when the first building was hit a lot of people in the second building wanted to evacuate.  Their bosses told them to stay put, because the "accident" happened in the other building, not theirs.  The people who left over the bosses' objections lived. Most of the ones who sat down and went back to work died, because they were above the level of the second plane strike.

That is just tragic, unjust and all kinds of horrendous.  :o
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Figgie on March 30, 2014, 09:05:16 PM
Many years ago (back in the dark ages) :) I was a student nurse.  And my pediatric nursing instructor stood in front of the class and told the entire class that it was completely and totally our responsibility if there was a fire in the nursery or pediatrics unit to do whatever we had to do in order to save the babies/children.

I remember thinking at the time, that while I would do everything that I could safely do to save whoever I could, I wasn't going to risk my life to save anyone else.  While I was willing to do what any decent person would do, I didn't think that my being a nurse meant that I owed the hospital that employed me my very life because of a fire.

And the nursing instructor did really believe that it was a nurses responsibility to save others, even if it cost them their own lives.  We got to hear story after story about that happening, probably because she thought it would inspire all of us to do the same thing.   

And don't hospitals have plans in place for just that type of event? So as many patients can be saved as possible while not putting the employees at excessive risk?  I would think any good nurse would know this procedure well and not be just running around willy-nilly during a fire and grabbing babies.

All of the hospitals I ever worked at had evacuation plans.  But there was also a very clear expectation that nurses were to risk their lives to save their patients.  Which wasn't going to happen unless I could do it without killing myself in the process. :)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 30, 2014, 11:51:48 PM
Many years ago (back in the dark ages) :) I was a student nurse.  And my pediatric nursing instructor stood in front of the class and told the entire class that it was completely and totally our responsibility if there was a fire in the nursery or pediatrics unit to do whatever we had to do in order to save the babies/children.

I remember thinking at the time, that while I would do everything that I could safely do to save whoever I could, I wasn't going to risk my life to save anyone else.  While I was willing to do what any decent person would do, I didn't think that my being a nurse meant that I owed the hospital that employed me my very life because of a fire.

And the nursing instructor did really believe that it was a nurses responsibility to save others, even if it cost them their own lives.  We got to hear story after story about that happening, probably because she thought it would inspire all of us to do the same thing.   

And don't hospitals have plans in place for just that type of event? So as many patients can be saved as possible while not putting the employees at excessive risk?  I would think any good nurse would know this procedure well and not be just running around willy-nilly during a fire and grabbing babies.

All of the hospitals I ever worked at had evacuation plans.  But there was also a very clear expectation that nurses were to risk their lives to save their patients.  Which wasn't going to happen unless I could do it without killing myself in the process. :)

It's funny, the very first First Aid class I took was actually Wilderness First Aid, I have since taken a Wilderness First Responder course as well.  The first thing you learn is that you must take care of yourself first, before helping anyone else. If there is an actual fire then you need to know where the nearest emergency exit is, how to get there safely and evacuate.  If you grab a baby or patient and don't know where the emergency exit is and where to go, then you've just put you and your patient at risk for death.  Or if Joe is being mauled by a bear there is nothing you can do except run and get help.  If you try to wrestle the bear, chances are you'll be mauled too. 
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Fliss on March 31, 2014, 12:09:27 AM

I don't get the last few posts.

1) I spend every moment I'm out somewhere aware of my surroundings. Wherever I am, I know escape routes, who's around me, what's going on, etc. I've never understood how people have to pay special attention to these things; it's just the normal thing to do, not something that requires special effort.

2) I AM the sort of person who would find a weapon and attack the bear. If a fellow person is in danger, then I have an obligation to assist them. Leaving a person to their fate is a frame of mind I cannot understand.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: iridaceae on March 31, 2014, 12:50:16 AM
Short of my having an AK 47 on hand I have no way of killing a grizzly attacking someone. Have you ever seen one of those up close at the zoo? They are big fast strong and lethal. Climb a tree? They can climb too. Swim? They swim. Run? They run faster.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: greencat on March 31, 2014, 12:55:36 AM
Short of my having an AK 47 on hand I have no way of killing a grizzly attacking someone. Have you ever seen one of those up close at the zoo? They are big fast strong and lethal. Climb a tree? They can climb too. Swim? They swim. Run? They run faster.

I'd rather fight an actual tank than a grizzly!  Tanks have weak spots...
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Fliss on March 31, 2014, 01:03:18 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: jedikaiti on March 31, 2014, 01:29:24 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.

Try what? Distracting the bear so the other person dies 2nd? You can't help anyone if you're dead.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: iridaceae on March 31, 2014, 02:49:05 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.

Well call me a coward but no. I'm not going to die trying to rescue someone from a grizzly.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 31, 2014, 03:02:06 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.



 :o ??? :-\ ...I have no words
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: sammycat on March 31, 2014, 03:43:24 AM

I don't get the last few posts.

1) I spend every moment I'm out somewhere aware of my surroundings. Wherever I am, I know escape routes, who's around me, what's going on, etc. I've never understood how people have to pay special attention to these things; it's just the normal thing to do, not something that requires special effort.

2) I AM the sort of person who would find a weapon and attack the bear. If a fellow person is in danger, then I have an obligation to assist them. Leaving a person to their fate is a frame of mind I cannot understand.

I'm genuinely curious about this - if you go to somewhere like a shopping centre/bank/hospital etc does this mean you scope out, or are aware of, all the exits, fire escapes etc? Or if you get onto a lift you'll take instant note of the emergency button?
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: StarFaerie on March 31, 2014, 04:26:54 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.

Not if you are just going to end up dead or needing to be rescued too.

The rescuers in Oso didn't just rush in on to the liquid mud. They proceeded slowly and only when safe. Sure by rushing in they may have saved someone but far more likely they would have become further victims and caused problems with having to be saved. There was a chance people were alive but it was far to dangerous to try and that was not irrelevant. The same happens in the aftermath of earthquakes, floods, fires and many other natural disasters.

Also after car accidents bringing down electricity lines when people rush in before it is safe and just rushing to their inevitable and unnecessary death.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Psychopoesie on March 31, 2014, 05:50:55 AM
It's been years since I did my first aid course but I still remember that one of the steps was checking for danger to yourself before going to someone's aid. Particularly hazards like electricity wires being down near a car accident, or around water. It's really common sense but easy to forget in the heat of the moment.

Not sure I'd try to stop a bear. Know I couldn't outrun it so I'd probably be curled up on a foetal ball trying to look extremely unappetising and boring.

I'd hope I'd do what I could to help out where I could, even in a difficult situation. When scary stuff actually happens, the whole flight/fight/freeze thing takes over and it is really hard to predict what I'd do in response to the stress of that moment.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: JadeGirl on March 31, 2014, 05:58:08 AM

But you must try. Everything else is irrelevant. Unless they're already dead, you must try.

Not if you are just going to end up dead or needing to be rescued too.

The rescuers in Oso didn't just rush in on to the liquid mud. They proceeded slowly and only when safe. Sure by rushing in they may have saved someone but far more likely they would have become further victims and caused problems with having to be saved. There was a chance people were alive but it was far to dangerous to try and that was not irrelevant. The same happens in the aftermath of earthquakes, floods, fires and many other natural disasters.

Also after car accidents bringing down electricity lines when people rush in before it is safe and just rushing to their inevitable and unnecessary death.

First rule taught in Australian First Aid - check for danger. Then proceed to response, send for help, airways etc. It's repeatedly emphasised in our training.

The checking exits etc? I do that too. I don't like being boxed in and prefer to have clear sight lines.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on March 31, 2014, 06:07:17 AM
I believe the general advice in coming up against a bear in the wild is that #1 you don't look it in the eye. #2, you curl up into a ball with your head down and fingers laced over the back of your neck.   Or play dead.

No park ranger is going to suggest going up against the bear yourself. Even if you can grin down a bear.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Psychopoesie on March 31, 2014, 06:08:26 AM
Jadegirl's comment reminds me that a friend did a refresher course in first aid recently and was telling me about the mnemonic DRSABCD. D is for danger (as in check for it).

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/First_aid_basics?open (http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/First_aid_basics?open)
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 31, 2014, 08:18:34 AM
OK, yeah, sure, I'm going to remember DRSABCD--not! That's a pretty random combo of letters!

Though, as I look at it, having typed that, I could remember, perhaps:
  Drs. ABCD

Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: shadowfox79 on March 31, 2014, 08:23:17 AM
OK, yeah, sure, I'm going to remember DRSABCD--not! That's a pretty random combo of letters!

Though, as I look at it, having typed that, I could remember, perhaps:
  Drs. ABCD

Yup, that's it. I did that myself as a first aider.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Psychopoesie on March 31, 2014, 08:29:24 AM
Yeah, it's one of those things that seems really obvious in hindsight. Before that, it's just a jumble of letters. If I'd been thinking, I'd have put the RS in lower case, sorry.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: camlan on March 31, 2014, 08:45:55 AM
I worked in a small publishing business on the third floor of an old building.  One day we heard many sirens and saw numerous fire trucks pull up outside.  The owners refused to let us leave until firemen came and ordered us to evacuate via the stairs.  There was smoke billowing from the elevator shaft.

Have none of these people heard of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire?
When I was five my Dad was burned in a kitchen fire in front of me. I have a fear of fire/being burned.

Unless the words "The fire department has instructed us to stay put until rescuers get here" or something similar were uttered - I would be leaving and No-one would be stopping even if I had to move them. I would also be looking seriously into pressing charges for endangering my life.  I think safety over etiquette gets way over used but holding someone in a burning building crosses that line by a mile.
During 9/11, when the first building was hit a lot of people in the second building wanted to evacuate.  Their bosses told them to stay put, because the "accident" happened in the other building, not theirs.  The people who left over the bosses' objections lived. Most of the ones who sat down and went back to work died, because they were above the level of the second plane strike.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

At the time people were told to stay in the second building, no one anticipated a second strike. Debris was falling from the first building and it was in flames. It was deemed safer for people to stay in their buildings rather than risk getting hit with falling, flaming debris by being out on the street.

In hindsight, we can say it was not a good decision. But in the moment, the people making that decision were doing their best to keep the largest number of people safe.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on March 31, 2014, 08:49:26 AM
When I worked in a hospital years and years ago, we were taught that evacuation was the absolute last step in the event of a fire.  The elevators would shut down, and people immobilised in beds cannot be easily taken out.  The rules were to shut all fire doors to contain the fire, and to use extinguishers when possible.

A nurse running around trying to get people out would be dangerous.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Wordgeek on March 31, 2014, 08:57:09 AM
I have to say, this is one of the more ridiculous reasons I've shut down a thread.  You people are arguing about being required to rescue someone from a grizzly bear? And what should be done during an emergency evacuation?

Seriously, go outside and play.
Title: Re: Unwarrented Demands for Loyalty (Share stories)
Post by: Ehelldame on April 03, 2014, 07:18:13 AM


Seriously, go outside and play.

OK!   I will!   <trotting off to play outside with my garden, ponies and a 5 lb Yorkshire Terror>