Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 03:11:48 PM

Title: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 03:11:48 PM
My sons daycare sends an email attachment every afternoon with photos of the kids taken during the day, and a brief description of what they've been doing.  I absolutely love it and always look through it on the days he attends.

Yesterday there was not a single photo with DS in it - not in the background of the group activity photos even!   I was really disappointed.   I actually replied and commented that there was no pictures of him, and they replied and said not to worry, that not every child gets a photo in there every day but he would "probably be in tomorrow".  I replied again and just said that he's never not been in there at all before, and it seemed a very tiny thing to make sure there's at least a glimpse of each child.   I was friendly and light and non-demanding and left it at that.

Except now I feel like an epic special snowflake.   Am I being unreasonable?    I don't expect my kid to be featured on the front page or anything, but to not even have a glimpse it feels as though he wasn't even there.  As if he is excluded from the community.    By the way, there are a dozen photos nearly all of which have multiple children in them, many feature multiple times.  There are less than 12 kids in the room.  I don't think any other kids were left out based on a quick headcount.  (I just checked specifically to give you an idea of the context).    It's a tiny thing in our lives and not something I'll lose sleep over, but wondering if I'm unreasonable to have mentioned it to them?
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TurtleDove on February 12, 2014, 03:16:12 PM
Yes, you are being unreasonable.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 03:19:21 PM
I think it's asking too much to ask them to count and be sure they have all the kids, every day.
You may think it's a quick thing; I can tell you that it's not as quick as you think it is.

They're taking a few pictures, and loading them on. And they have a lot going on that's far more germane to the actual care, safety, and happiness of your child.

Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Jones on February 12, 2014, 03:22:14 PM
I'd have wondered if he was in time out or something during the group shots. If no discipline was necessary, I'd wonder why he wasn't in the group, was he pouting in a corner or taking a nap or something? Lots of daycares have mommycams these days, people want to check on their kids occasionally.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Arila on February 12, 2014, 03:23:47 PM
A one-time thing, I wouldn't make a fuss. It also depends to me a bit on whether this email is composed by a staff member who is supposed to be supervising the kids in "free time" or if it's a staff member dedicated to composing the daily newsletters in an office somewhere else.

I think it would be a pretty big task to cross check for each class that each child who was in attendance on THAT day is in the photos, and much much more so if this is a multi-tasking activity that's just a quick upload of some of the photos and a lesson plan.

If he never ever appeared in the photos, I would be concerned, but not for a one time thing.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Tabby Uprising on February 12, 2014, 03:24:00 PM
I don't think you're being unreasonable.  You said that they take these photos every day and send them to the parents every day.  If every day for the past 3 months you've received photos of your child and then one day you don't, it makes sense you'd reach out and ask why.  Maybe he was sick or feeling antisocial or napping or whatever.  Depending on the age of your child, he/she even could have developed a sudden fear/aversion to the camera.  Kids are unpredictable! It makes sense to simply ask if there's any certain reason for the absence.

I understand it's not a big deal and it doesn't sound like you made a big deal out of it.  You essentially notified them that something out of their usual norm occurred and was there any reason for it.  I know it's typical of the daycares in my area to either have parental web access to see the kids or send photos as a way to "connect" the parent to the child while they are away. 

I wouldn't push the issue any further.  Give it a few more days and you'll probably see the usual mix of your kid in the pictures.  If your child was consistently excluded I would bring it up again. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: GreenBird on February 12, 2014, 03:24:38 PM
Yeah, maybe a little unreasonable, although I understand the disappointment.  Unless he's regularly left out, I wouldn't have said anything.  I'm sure they try to include all the kids every day, but it's hardly surprising that they'd miss one kid once in a while.  Maybe a better approach would be to let the daycare workers know how much you enjoy seeing the pictures every day and look forward to getting glimpses into how your son spends his day.  The pictures are some extra work for them and I'm sure they'd love to know how much you appreciate them, and if they know you appreciate them they'll probably make an effort to make sure your son is included. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: #borecore on February 12, 2014, 03:30:34 PM
I do think your concern is a bit too much. This is not a big deal. Maybe (maybe) you could be concerned if he wasn't in any photos for a week or two; a day is hovery.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Roe on February 12, 2014, 03:38:13 PM
Yes, that is completely unreasonable.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: whatsanenigma on February 12, 2014, 03:49:33 PM
Except now I feel like an epic special snowflake.   Am I being unreasonable?    I don't expect my kid to be featured on the front page or anything, but to not even have a glimpse it feels as though he wasn't even there.  As if he is excluded from the community.    By the way, there are a dozen photos nearly all of which have multiple children in them, many feature multiple times.  There are less than 12 kids in the room.  I don't think any other kids were left out based on a quick headcount.  (I just checked specifically to give you an idea of the context).    It's a tiny thing in our lives and not something I'll lose sleep over, but wondering if I'm unreasonable to have mentioned it to them?

I think the bolded would be the issue if it were me in your shoes.  I would worry that something had gone wrong with my child on that day that I wasn't being told about-that he was in a bad mood for some reason and avoiding the other children and activities, or maybe he was sick and not wanting to eat snacks with the other children, or any number of possible things, even little things, that would mean he hadn't been having a typical day (and was isolating himself, or had been isolated in a "time out" or such) and I think it would be very natural for a parent to worry about what might have caused that.

So, in my opinion, it might be going overboard if it were just about whether or not your child is in a picture every day, but to me it seems like the issue is more that multiple shots were taken of only a few kids total and your particular kid somehow didn't end up in even one of the shots.  And I do agree that you shouldn't "lose any sleep" over it,  especially if it only happens one day, but I also can see how you might get a bad feeling about something maybe being wrong.

If you are worried about what the day care people think of your inquiry, you might phrase it that way in a reply, that you just were worried that your child was not in any pictures because he wasn't interacting with the group for some reason and as a parent, your buttons just got pushed to think that maybe he was upset and hiding in a corner or something, even though that is a bit irrational.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: dawbs on February 12, 2014, 03:51:44 PM
If this is a daycare you're happy with, I'd consider it a non-issue.
If you're having (internal to yourself or external) issues with the daycare, It may be a straw on the camel. 

(I may be reading to much into it, but, if your reaction to him not being in the pictures is 'it's like he's not eve there', I'd take a guess that maybe you're not confident that they're consistently and constantly looking after your child?  Which is a different-and far bigger-issue.)
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: bonyk on February 12, 2014, 03:55:50 PM
I understand your disappointment, but I think it is something that will happen from time to time and you need to accept that.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: whatsanenigma on February 12, 2014, 03:56:02 PM
If this is a daycare you're happy with, I'd consider it a non-issue.
If you're having (internal to yourself or external) issues with the daycare, It may be a straw on the camel. 

(I may be reading to much into it, but, if your reaction to him not being in the pictures is 'it's like he's not eve there', I'd take a guess that maybe you're not confident that they're consistently and constantly looking after your child?  Which is a different-and far bigger-issue.)

I wonder also if that is an issue for the OP, but I also think that as a parent it would be normal to worry somewhat about things like this even when there is no logical need to do so.  Maybe for the OP, seeing her child in at least one picture is reassurance that her child had a good, normal, happy day, in which he interacted with the other children enough to be caught in at least one photo, and not seeing him in any pictures leaves the possibility open that it wasn't such a great day.  And even with excellent daycare workers at an excellent facility, such is the nature of children (and even adults) that sometimes a day can be not so good. 

So there might be an uncomfortable information gap.  Which is not necessarily an indication of anything actually going seriously wrong.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 03:56:30 PM
Just to clarify, the email is created by the teachers in the room.  They know each kid intimately, so it wouldn't involve cross checking a roll or anything like that.   And yes, they have better things to do - but quite frankly, if they're going to spend so much time on this (it's fairly extensive) I'd prefer they took the extra 2min to check they'd included everybody.  Otherwise why do it at all?   My husband actually asked me if I'd stayed home with son because noticed he wasn't in the daycare book!   

For the record, I'm a very, very relaxed parent.  I've never raised a concern about anything. Even when they changed his room teachers at the end of the year and forgot to tell me!  This is just something that is really important to me. 

So given the overwhelming view that I'm unreasonable for even mentioning it to them, do I then owe them an apology?


Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Team HoundMom on February 12, 2014, 03:57:03 PM
I don't have kids so take me with a grain of salt.  I think you're way over-thinking this.  You said he's been in the pictures before?  Okay then.  This time he wasn't.  No big deal.

Like what happened to me in high school.  There was a photo of my best friend and I with our faces painted for a Game Day. It was a close-up of our faces side-by-each. The yearbook came out and the picture was on one of the random picture pages but with my face cropped out, even though our faces were painted with the two words that made up the football team - "NORTH" on hers and "VIKINGS" on mine.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Arila on February 12, 2014, 03:57:08 PM
....

I would worry that something had gone wrong with my child on that day that I wasn't being told about-that he was in a bad mood for some reason and avoiding the other children and activities, or maybe he was sick and not wanting to eat snacks with the other children, or any number of possible things, even little things, that would mean he hadn't been having a typical day (and was isolating himself, or had been isolated in a "time out" or such) and I think it would be very natural for a parent to worry about what might have caused that.

I would assume that these kinds of issues (sick, discipline etc) would come in a separate report from the person responsible for supervising them. I don't think they can/should be extrapolated from a casual daily newsletter.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: whatsanenigma on February 12, 2014, 03:58:35 PM
Just to clarify, the email is created by the teachers in the room.  They know each kid intimately, so it wouldn't involve cross checking a roll or anything like that.   And yes, they have better things to do - but quite frankly, if they're going to spend so much time on this (it's fairly extensive) I'd prefer they took the extra 2min to check they'd included everybody.  Otherwise why do it at all?   My husband actually asked me if I'd stayed home with son because noticed he wasn't in the daycare book!   

For the record, I'm a very, very relaxed parent.  I've never raised a concern about anything. Even when they changed his room teachers at the end of the year and forgot to tell me!  This is just something that is really important to me. 

So given the overwhelming view that I'm unreasonable for even mentioning it to them, do I then owe them an apology?

I think with your update, you don't owe them an apology but you could explain to them that you were concerned because you are worried, given that you weren't told about a teacher change, that maybe something else had gone on that you weren't told about.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: whatsanenigma on February 12, 2014, 04:01:07 PM
....

I would worry that something had gone wrong with my child on that day that I wasn't being told about-that he was in a bad mood for some reason and avoiding the other children and activities, or maybe he was sick and not wanting to eat snacks with the other children, or any number of possible things, even little things, that would mean he hadn't been having a typical day (and was isolating himself, or had been isolated in a "time out" or such) and I think it would be very natural for a parent to worry about what might have caused that.

I would assume that these kinds of issues (sick, discipline etc) would come in a separate report from the person responsible for supervising them. I don't think they can/should be extrapolated from a casual daily newsletter.

I don't think you can know absolutely for sure based on the child not being in a picture, but it might raise a red flag to be looked into further.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: thedudeabides on February 12, 2014, 04:11:39 PM
Yes, this is a complete overreaction.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: rose red on February 12, 2014, 04:20:14 PM
This is one day out of many.  I'm sure it's happened to other children but you didn't notice because they are not your child.  When taking random pictures of that many children throughout the day, some of them can be missed.  I think it's only a problem if he is never ever in a picture. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 04:20:53 PM
Yes, this is a complete overreaction.

Which part exactly is the overreaction?   

And if I'm not supposed to even mention it to them, at what point *is* it ok to say something.     After 2 days?   After 1 week?  After months?   A lot of the responses here are very brief and I'm trying to work out where people feel the line is.     I'm getting the impression most people are simply coming from the point of view that "photos of your kid aren't a big deal" therefore this isn't a big deal.   And while that's true, it is something that's important to me in terms of feeling connected to what my son has been doing during the day when I'm not with him.     It's also something that takes time out of the time they spend with my son.   If I get no benefit from that, I'd rather they didn't do it at all.   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: camlan on February 12, 2014, 04:22:01 PM
I would say that a one-time occurrence of your child's picture not being there is not something to bring up. I'd notice it, and then keep an eye on the situation. If it happens again frequently, then I'd mention it.

The teachers are busy enough with the kids. Adding one more task to their day--making sure every child gets a picture in the newsletter--especially when that task is for the parents' comfort and not for the kids, is asking a lot. I'd rather have them interacting with the children, not counting heads in photos.

If you think there are on-going issues with your child not being treated fairly or well, then it is best to bring up those issues specifically. The lack of a photo on one day might be a sign of that, but it's a teeny, tiny thing. Not, IMO, enough to judge the teachers on.

If you are worried that you aren't getting the full picture, daily, about how your child is doing in the class, then ask directly. I think it's a bit of a stretch to think this on the basis of one missing picture in one newsletter.

And I have to say, from the outside looking in, this:

Quote
I don't expect my kid to be featured on the front page or anything, but to not even have a glimpse it feels as though he wasn't even there.  As if he is excluded from the community.

does seem like an over-reaction. It was one day, out of many days. If your son is old enough, ask him where he was during the picture taking. He might be able to give you a fuller picture of his day.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Mary Lennox on February 12, 2014, 04:22:52 PM
It was one day, if there was no sign of him for a week, then I might question it. But really, maybe he's just sick of having his photo taken multiple times a day and picked this day to hide whenver the camera was out?
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TurtleDove on February 12, 2014, 04:23:25 PM
Yesterday there was not a single photo with DS in it .... he's never not been in there at all before

This is why I think you are overreacting.  If your son were habitually not in the photos, perhaps it would be something to consider.  But this was one day when you son was not in the photos, and it was the first and only time it had happened. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 04:28:11 PM
I would say that a one-time occurrence of your child's picture not being there is not something to bring up. I'd notice it, and then keep an eye on the situation. If it happens again frequently, then I'd mention it.

The teachers are busy enough with the kids. Adding one more task to their day--making sure every child gets a picture in the newsletter--especially when that task is for the parents' comfort and not for the kids, is asking a lot. I'd rather have them interacting with the children, not counting heads in photos.

If you think there are on-going issues with your child not being treated fairly or well, then it is best to bring up those issues specifically. The lack of a photo on one day might be a sign of that, but it's a teeny, tiny thing. Not, IMO, enough to judge the teachers on.

If you are worried that you aren't getting the full picture, daily, about how your child is doing in the class, then ask directly. I think it's a bit of a stretch to think this on the basis of one missing picture in one newsletter.

And I have to say, from the outside looking in, this:

Quote
I don't expect my kid to be featured on the front page or anything, but to not even have a glimpse it feels as though he wasn't even there.  As if he is excluded from the community.

does seem like an over-reaction. It was one day, out of many days. If your son is old enough, ask him where he was during the picture taking. He might be able to give you a fuller picture of his day.

Great post, thanks.      I just realised an important point - my son just turned 1.     And I can say 100% I would not be concerned or raise this if he was an older child who I could talk to about his day.   Because he is so young, I rely on the photos to see that yes, he's ok, and yes he seems happy.    I've always felt it's a bit rude to interrogate them about every detail of his day, particularly as I do a fairly early pick-up so they're still busy with other children.   And I trust them to be taking care of him and that his needs have been met throughout the day.   (Seriously, I've seen parents who do stand there at drop-off micro-managing every aspect of the day and forcing routine, the teachers are very patient with them but they do seem grateful that I'm happy to let them do what works best and respond to son's needs throughout the day as they see fit).   I guess perhaps I worry a bit too that because I'm not a helicopter parent, and not paying as much attention as some, that he could slip through the cracks!     
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: FauxFoodist on February 12, 2014, 04:28:35 PM
I don't think you're overreacting by missing seeing your child, but I think you should let it go.  It sounds like the daycare is doing a nice thing by sending pictures, and, this time, they happened to not include your child.  Should it become a regular thing, then I might be concerned but not right now.  Also, since is something that's not necessary, they may decide to stop doing it altogether to avoid complaints about missing sending a child's picture.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 04:33:20 PM
Yesterday there was not a single photo with DS in it .... he's never not been in there at all before

This is why I think you are overreacting.  If your son were habitually not in the photos, perhaps it would be something to consider.  But this was one day when you son was not in the photos, and it was the first and only time it had happened.

That's a fair point, thanks.   I guess that's always the toss-up isn't it, address it the first time to nip it in the bud, or assume it's a one-off and not worry about it.

One of the reasons I guess I went the other way is that I thought maybe it was that the new teachers are doing it differently.   He spent 6 months with the other teachers and was never missed, now it's been 1 month with the new teachers and suddenly he's left off... so I guess my concern was that they weren't paying as much attention to it or thinking about it from a parent's perspective.    So perhaps it does all come back to my unresolved anxiety about the teacher change after all!  (The new ones are awesome, but I absolutely *loved* the old ones.  They swapped rooms because most of the kids in the class were significantly older and moved up, so they sent the teachers with the majority.  It makes sense, but my son was one of the 4 "babies" who stayed in the room).
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on February 12, 2014, 04:35:40 PM
It's also something that takes time out of the time they spend with my son.   If I get no benefit from that, I'd rather they didn't do it at all.   

But it's not just your son there. There were other children in the pictures, the other parents get the email of their children, they get to connect to their kids. Just because you didn't benefit, doesn't mean they should stop doing it all together.

I probably wouldn't have said anything in email. However when I picked up my kid I might have mentioned "I love getting the email with pictures of all the kids playing and enjoying their day! I noticed Kid wasn't in the pictures today though, was everything alright with him?" because maybe something was off. Kids (and grown-ups) have off days, so maybe that day he just wanted to sit on the sidelines and not be bothered.

If day after day I never saw my child in the photos, I'd start wanting some answers. Was it him or was it just an over site?

I imagine what happens is that someone gets put in charge of the camera and goes around snapping pictures of the kids doing different activities through out the day. And for whatever reason, your son just didn't get "snapped" that day. I'd assume just the timing being off and not give it much mind. And I wouldn't think much work really goes into picking the photos. Just, is it blurry? Can you see kids in it? Great, sending these pictures to this list of parents and on to the next thing.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: thedudeabides on February 12, 2014, 04:38:55 PM
Yes, this is a complete overreaction.

Which part exactly is the overreaction?   

And if I'm not supposed to even mention it to them, at what point *is* it ok to say something.     After 2 days?   After 1 week?  After months?   A lot of the responses here are very brief and I'm trying to work out where people feel the line is.     I'm getting the impression most people are simply coming from the point of view that "photos of your kid aren't a big deal" therefore this isn't a big deal.   And while that's true, it is something that's important to me in terms of feeling connected to what my son has been doing during the day when I'm not with him.     It's also something that takes time out of the time they spend with my son.   If I get no benefit from that, I'd rather they didn't do it at all.   

Calling them after one day when your kid isn't in the pictures, when there's never a guarantee that your kid will be in the pictures, is an absolute overreaction.  If you're seeing after days that your kid is never in the pictures, sure, say something.  But ONE time?  That takes picture-taking and sending from something they do to make things pleasant for everyone into a chore because now they're scrambling to make sure they got your kid every day so you don't call back.  And once things like this start becoming a chore, that factors into the cost-benefit of even taking them in the first place.

And, as Glitter pointed out, you're not the only one benefiting here.  Just because you would rather see a picture that includes your son every day rather than never get them again because you don't get it every day doesn't mean that the other parents wouldn't rather have one or two pictures a week of their kids.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Onyx_TKD on February 12, 2014, 04:40:33 PM
I think if your concern is that your DS didn't appear because he wasn't participating for some reason (feeling ill, upset about something, etc.) as PPs have suggested, then it would be better to focus on that issue, e.g., "I noticed DS didn't make it into any of the photos today, which is unusual. Was he participating normally today? If he wasn't playing with the others, I want to make sure to keep an eye on him to see if anything's wrong." If DS was moping around, you'd find out, and if he wasn't, they'd realize that at least one kid got left out and his parent noticed.

I understand why you're disappointed about him not showing up in any photos, especially since you look forward to them. However, if they feel pressured to ensure every kid is represented every day, you run the risk of them deciding that the daily photos are too much trouble and you'd lose something you "absolutely love."  :(

Also, you might be overlooking some of the problems with ensuring everyone is included. I assume that this email comes at the end of the day--is that correct? If they sort through the day's photos after daycare, it might take 2 minutes to realize one kid got left out, but if the kids are already gone, there's no way to "fix" it. They would either have to send out photos without that kid, or send no photos at all. It's entirely possible that the person sorting through photos realized he was omitted and had already made a mental note to snap a few pics the next day. OTOH, checking during the day that they had photos of every kid would take someone's time away from the kids. If it continued for several days with no photos, then I think it would be reasonable to email telling them that you really love being able to see him happy and participating and asking if they could please snap a photo of him next time since he hasn't appeared the last few days.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 04:41:28 PM
I don't think you're overreacting by missing seeing your child, but I think you should let it go.  It sounds like the daycare is doing a nice thing by sending pictures, and, this time, they happened to not include your child.  Should it become a regular thing, then I might be concerned but not right now.  Also, since is something that's not necessary, they may decide to stop doing it altogether to avoid complaints about missing sending a child's picture.

Yes I can confirm 100% I have no intention (and never did) of pursuing it further than I have.    I was just feeling uneasy about having mentioned it at all, which it seems from this thread was the appropriate way to be feeling!!       I used to have severe social anxiety and although I have good social skills now, I still get this nasty feeling inside after conversations sometimes, that feeling that I've said and done the wrong thing.    So I wasn't sure whether it was just that, or if in this case I had over-reacted.   :-\     I did, actually, completely over-react in person - my very hormonal pregnant self sat and cried.    I'm not even kidding. So although my email was calm and friendly and chatty, my in-person reaction was definitely unreasonable.   (It amused me a bit when people were saying I over-reacted, because I hadn't mentioned the fact that I did have an epic over-reaction initially in person).  It was later when I'd calmed down that I thought it through and decided I wanted to mention it to them. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: lollylegs on February 12, 2014, 04:43:33 PM
Just to clarify, the email is created by the teachers in the room.  They know each kid intimately, so it wouldn't involve cross checking a roll or anything like that.   And yes, they have better things to do - but quite frankly, if they're going to spend so much time on this (it's fairly extensive) I'd prefer they took the extra 2min to check they'd included everybody.  Otherwise why do it at all?   My husband actually asked me if I'd stayed home with son because noticed he wasn't in the daycare book!   

Sure, I guess it takes two minutes to look through and make sure everyone's there but it takes longer than two minutes to go through all the photos to find a replacement and get another nice, usable photo if you don't have one. Next thing you know you've spent their whole nap time working on the dingdangity thing, maybe sure every single child gets equal representation, and the paperwork you'd planned to get done has to come home with you now.

I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

And if there's another rare occurrence where your son is left off, I'd keep the disappointment to myself.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: QueenfaninCA on February 12, 2014, 04:45:44 PM
I think you are overreacting. How many kids are in his group? If more than five I can tell you that checking ten or twenty pictures to make sure each kid is at least in one of them takes way more time than a day-care teacher has.

It's something else if picture get sent out only once every six months or so. Then someone needs to make sure everyone is in at least one picture. But with that many pictures every day...
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: perpetua on February 12, 2014, 04:48:55 PM
It's entirely possible that the person sorting through photos realized he was omitted and had already made a mental note to snap a few pics the next day.

It's also entirely possible that every kid isn't in the email every single day, and that it just so happens that your kid has been so far. And today he may not have been, for completely normal reasons.

Count me in with those who say it's an overreaction.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Olympia on February 12, 2014, 04:49:08 PM
Yesterday there was not a single photo with DS in it .... he's never not been in there at all before

This is why I think you are overreacting.  If your son were habitually not in the photos, perhaps it would be something to consider.  But this was one day when you son was not in the photos, and it was the first and only time it had happened.

That's a fair point, thanks.   I guess that's always the toss-up isn't it, address it the first time to nip it in the bud, or assume it's a one-off and not worry about it.

You may find it helpful to adjust your way of looking at this. What, exactly, do you hope to "nip in the bud?" For one day, he was not in the pictures. I'm sure if you went back through the photos, not that you would, but if you went through the photos for other days, you'd find that once in a while, a child is not in that day's photos.

You say that you use these photos to get an idea of how your son's day went. That's valid, but I strongly urge you to talk to the teachers, even if you are one of the earlier parents to pick up their child. The photos are going to show the positive points of that day. They aren't a substitute for just asking the teachers how your son's day was.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: aiki on February 12, 2014, 04:53:49 PM
Once is an accident. Twice is coincidence. Three times is an enemy action.

I'd say if it happens three times, then investigate further. Doing something after one instance would be overreacting.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 04:55:12 PM
Also, you might be overlooking some of the problems with ensuring everyone is included. I assume that this email comes at the end of the day--is that correct? If they sort through the day's photos after daycare, it might take 2 minutes to realize one kid got left out, but if the kids are already gone, there's no way to "fix" it. They would either have to send out photos without that kid, or send no photos at all. It's entirely possible that the person sorting through photos realized he was omitted and had already made a mental note to snap a few pics the next day. OTOH, checking during the day that they had photos of every kid would take someone's time away from the kids. If it continued for several days with no photos, then I think it would be reasonable to email telling them that you really love being able to see him happy and participating and asking if they could please snap a photo of him next time since he hasn't appeared the last few days.

The email comes from the receptionist (because she has the group distribution list for parents for each room) so she sends it out anytime between 3pm and 6pm depending on the day and how busy she is out the front.   There is a camera in each room, and 4 teachers in each room.     During the day anytime the kids are doing an activity, or even just playing (they do a lot of free play), they'll grab the camera and go around taking snapshots, some individual and some group.   As early as when I'm doing drop-off they'll be grabbing the camera and taking photos.    They put most of the book together at lunchtime so most photos come from the morning, but sometimes add in some extra from the afternoon.   Back when DS was still breastfed I used to go in and lunchtime and sit in the room to feed him, and they'd be working on the book then and chat to me while they do it (not relevant, but it's just how I know the process so well!). 


I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

That's an interesting perspective - all of my friends children are in different daycare centres (different brands, philosophies, locations) and they all get a daily email with photos of the kids and telling them what they've been doing.  The exact style and content vary, of course.   I believe they do keep some paper records in the room as well on the kids, but I've never seen them.    The book tells us what activities the children have done today and pictures of them engaging in those activities, the email also tells us what lunch was served.   Is the email book an Australian thing??      (Actually somewhat related, one of my friend's daughter just started daycare at a different centre and is really, really struggling with separation anxiety - she literally cries all day - and my friend said to me a couple of weeks ago "You know it's not been a good day when there's no picture of your child in the email!"  Because in her case, her child was crying so much that she didn't participate in any activities and wasn't playing at all, she just sat and cried all day.   She wasn't upset about her child not being in the pictures, because she knew why and was dealing with a much bigger problem, but clearly she thought it was an abnormal thing for a child not to be included!)
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 05:06:05 PM
Yesterday there was not a single photo with DS in it .... he's never not been in there at all before

This is why I think you are overreacting.  If your son were habitually not in the photos, perhaps it would be something to consider.  But this was one day when you son was not in the photos, and it was the first and only time it had happened.

That's a fair point, thanks.   I guess that's always the toss-up isn't it, address it the first time to nip it in the bud, or assume it's a one-off and not worry about it.

You may find it helpful to adjust your way of looking at this. What, exactly, do you hope to "nip in the bud?" For one day, he was not in the pictures. I'm sure if you went back through the photos, not that you would, but if you went through the photos for other days, you'd find that once in a while, a child is not in that day's photos.

You say that you use these photos to get an idea of how your son's day went. That's valid, but I strongly urge you to talk to the teachers, even if you are one of the earlier parents to pick up their child. The photos are going to show the positive points of that day. They aren't a substitute for just asking the teachers how your son's day was.

Obviously I do talk to the teachers every day (I guess the alternative would be to sneak in and grab him and run out?  ;D ), I just don't interrogate them about every detail of his day.   They'll say "he had a great day today!" (which they say basically everyday).   And that's nice. And I ask what time he napped / woke up just so I know how early bedtime needs to be.   But I do want to see for myself what he personally did, and how he looked.  I can actually tell from a picture whether he was happy, or just ok, or feeling a bit sick.    When he first started the teachers would say "Oh he was really good!" because he didn't cry, but I could see from the pictures that he was very stressed.   Because I know him, and I know what his "normal" is.    Over time, I could see that evolve and his genuine happy self come through.   

I find it interesting a few people are commenting on how many kids there are and how hard it would be to keep track.   I pop in and out twice per day (drop off and pick up) and yet I know the names of nearly every single child in that room.   The ones I don't know it's because they are brand new in the past couple of weeks!   (Start of the year, new kids).    Given the low staff turnover and that they spend all day with them I'd be surprised if they couldn't tell from a glance who was who and who was missing.   They don't run a routine in that room, the kids each have their own schedule based on their needs, yet the teachers know exactly who needs to sleep, who needs to eat, who needs a bottle etc.     So they definitely know their kids!   (And yes, I agree that given they're doing all that you could argue that they then don't have as much time to devote to the book.  But my point is that they *do* devote extensive time to the book, despite doing all of these other things).   Oh well, will be interesting to see what happens today!
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: bonyk on February 12, 2014, 05:13:23 PM
Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Olympia on February 12, 2014, 05:16:40 PM
That's a fair point, thanks.   I guess that's always the toss-up isn't it, address it the first time to nip it in the bud, or assume it's a one-off and not worry about it.

You may find it helpful to adjust your way of looking at this. What, exactly, do you hope to "nip in the bud?" For one day, he was not in the pictures. I'm sure if you went back through the photos, not that you would, but if you went through the photos for other days, you'd find that once in a while, a child is not in that day's photos.

You say that you use these photos to get an idea of how your son's day went. That's valid, but I strongly urge you to talk to the teachers, even if you are one of the earlier parents to pick up their child. The photos are going to show the positive points of that day. They aren't a substitute for just asking the teachers how your son's day was.

Obviously I do talk to the teachers every day (I guess the alternative would be to sneak in and grab him and run out?  ;D ), I just don't interrogate them about every detail of his day.

I was responding to this:
"Because he is so young, I rely on the photos to see that yes, he's ok, and yes he seems happy.    I've always felt it's a bit rude to interrogate them about every detail of his day, particularly as I do a fairly early pick-up so they're still busy with other children."

There is no "obviously" there, in terms of how much you interact with the carers. You can choose to see asking about your son's day as "interrogation," but what purpose does that serve? Talk to them, and try to let a simple, inconsequential oversight go.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: amandaelizabeth on February 12, 2014, 05:18:13 PM
Hi

Early Childhood person here.  As the rules are vey similar in both our countries, the Centre would have to ask parents permission to put a photo of their child in a public arena.  Parents can refuse.  Problems arise if your child is best friends with a non photo child as it can be difficult to snap one child without the other.  Believe me I know. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: newbiePA on February 12, 2014, 05:25:03 PM
My daycare doesn't do day photos, just occasional pictures.  You said your son was one of the young ones in the old classroom?  Maybe that is part of the reason he had been in pictures every day.  Younger= less active= easier to get a picture.  I have a 21 month old and a newborn, and it is WAY easier to snap a picture of a pre-crawler or pre-walker.  Most of my pictures of my toddler over the last 6 months have been blurs.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 05:25:25 PM
Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.

They upload all the photos onto the laptop, then go through and pick ones to use for the report.   So they can see the big picture of what they have before putting it together.     

Yes, I will obviously let it go, as was always my intention.   This was most definitely a retrospective question!     (And yes, I know it's a trivial matter.   All of my etiquette questions are trivial matters.  My real problems I deal with in real life not on the internet  :)). 

Hi

Early Childhood person here.  As the rules are vey similar in both our countries, the Centre would have to ask parents permission to put a photo of their child in a public arena.  Parents can refuse.  Problems arise if your child is best friends with a non photo child as it can be difficult to snap one child without the other.  Believe me I know. 

That's a good point and in theory could definitely arise.  I don't think we have that situation here as I haven't seen any of the other kids not photographed (they often do big group shots showing all the kids together, and like I said I know who they all are).   The consent / release for photos is in the original enrolment form so I think most people just tick yes to it.   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 05:39:47 PM
That's a fair point, thanks.   I guess that's always the toss-up isn't it, address it the first time to nip it in the bud, or assume it's a one-off and not worry about it.

You may find it helpful to adjust your way of looking at this. What, exactly, do you hope to "nip in the bud?" For one day, he was not in the pictures. I'm sure if you went back through the photos, not that you would, but if you went through the photos for other days, you'd find that once in a while, a child is not in that day's photos.

You say that you use these photos to get an idea of how your son's day went. That's valid, but I strongly urge you to talk to the teachers, even if you are one of the earlier parents to pick up their child. The photos are going to show the positive points of that day. They aren't a substitute for just asking the teachers how your son's day was.

Obviously I do talk to the teachers every day (I guess the alternative would be to sneak in and grab him and run out?  ;D ), I just don't interrogate them about every detail of his day.

I was responding to this:
"Because he is so young, I rely on the photos to see that yes, he's ok, and yes he seems happy.    I've always felt it's a bit rude to interrogate them about every detail of his day, particularly as I do a fairly early pick-up so they're still busy with other children."

There is no "obviously" there, in terms of how much you interact with the carers. You can choose to see asking about your son's day as "interrogation," but what purpose does that serve? Talk to them, and try to let a simple, inconsequential oversight go.

You said you "urge me to talk to them", and I do think it is pretty obvious that I couldn't go in there twice a day without talking to them.      I definitely don't see asking about my son's day as interrogation.  I see it as asking about his day, which is part of the normal, day-to-day conversations I would expect any parent to have with the teacher, and which I always do.   I would see interrogating them about every single tiny detail of how the day was spent to be interrogation.    Apologies if my choice of wording confused you.    Perhaps I shouldn't have said I 'rely' on the book - for me, I rely on it as an alternative to what they are saying.  A way of seeing for myself.  Every other method is based on their reporting - what they write, what they tell me.  The photos show me how happy my son is, or isn't, in a way that nobody can describe.

I can assure you that this is a very, very minor matter, my son is very well-adjusted and happy in his daycare, and I have very friendly relationship with the staff.    There is no need to blow it up into a bigger issue regarding non-communication and I have no intention of doing so.     The etiquette question was simply about whether mentioning a one-off oversight like this is unreasonable.   In reality I could probably ask the same question about many other day-to-day life events where expectations aren't quite met.    The overwhelming verdict definitely seems to be it was unreasonable and I should have given them the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a one-off unless a pattern emerges, and I think that's fair.    As a photo junkie (I take an average of 20GB of photos each month of my son) it's still disappointing to me and I hope it doesn't become a pattern.   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: JenJay on February 12, 2014, 05:43:03 PM
Re the crying - I'd like to offer you a little hug because it sounds like you had a rough, emotional day, and I've been there. Stoopid pregnancy hormones!

I don't think you owe the daycare providers an apology, but it might be nice to say something like "Sorry if I overreacted about the photo situation. I was worried that DS had a bad day and didn't participate in any of the fun. I realize he was probably just busy in another area when each picture was taken. I really love the daily recaps, thank you for sending them!"
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: lollylegs on February 12, 2014, 05:45:22 PM
I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

That's an interesting perspective - all of my friends children are in different daycare centres (different brands, philosophies, locations) and they all get a daily email with photos of the kids and telling them what they've been doing.  The exact style and content vary, of course.   I believe they do keep some paper records in the room as well on the kids, but I've never seen them.    The book tells us what activities the children have done today and pictures of them engaging in those activities, the email also tells us what lunch was served.   Is the email book an Australian thing??      (Actually somewhat related, one of my friend's daughter just started daycare at a different centre and is really, really struggling with separation anxiety - she literally cries all day - and my friend said to me a couple of weeks ago "You know it's not been a good day when there's no picture of your child in the email!"  Because in her case, her child was crying so much that she didn't participate in any activities and wasn't playing at all, she just sat and cried all day.   She wasn't upset about her child not being in the pictures, because she knew why and was dealing with a much bigger problem, but clearly she thought it was an abnormal thing for a child not to be included!)

Yes, I'm aware the most Australian daycare centres are doing this now, my son's daycare does it as well. Just like many workplaces have a candy jar, but it's still not something that the daycare centre or the office is required to provide. And this is why it reminds me of the other thread - it's become such a commonplace thing in your mind that you're seeing it as part of the essential service and overreacting when your son isn't included, instead of being grateful for all the other days that you have received photos of your children.

Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.

They upload all the photos onto the laptop, then go through and pick ones to use for the report.   So they can see the big picture of what they have before putting it together.     

Yes, I will obviously let it go, as was always my intention.   This was most definitely a retrospective question!     (And yes, I know it's a trivial matter.   All of my etiquette questions are trivial matters.  My real problems I deal with in real life not on the internet  :)). 

Have you ever worked in childcare? I only ask because you keep impressing on us how easy it should be for the daycare providers to include pictures of everyone but, speaking as a former daycare provider, it's not. It's really not. As a mother yourself, you should know how often your child does something cute but by the time you get the camera and take a snap he's stopped being cute and is now facing away, crying, picking his nose, etc. Now imagine doing that with twelve kids.

So you take your pictures all day long, not really paying attention to how many you've got of whom because you've got twelve kids to look after, meals to prepare, nappies to change, cleaning, paperwork, tantrums, naps, and then you upload all the photos and maybe you notice that today you didn't get a picture of Cellach's kid but hey, you've included him every other day so it should be okay, you don't have the time to try and get another photo now. Or maybe you don't even notice because you've got a bunch of other stuff to do and it's not like you're putting together a professional yearbook, it's just an overview of the day so parents get an idea of what their children have been doing. It happens. It doesn't mean anything.

If you're concerned that it means your child has had a bad day, then ask the providers if he had a bad day. But pointing out that your child wasn't included... I'm sure that it really was light and breezy, the way that you brought it up, but I know how lesser complaints than this can turn into big deals and if I were the provider, I might be worried that you were going to make this into a thing. Which is why I think it would be a kindness to say, "I was a bit silly yesterday, sorry."

JenJay posted before me and her wording is perfect.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: whatsanenigma on February 12, 2014, 05:46:04 PM
Re the crying - I'd like to offer you a little hug because it sounds like you had a rough, emotional day, and I've been there. Stoopid pregnancy hormones!

I don't think you owe the daycare providers an apology, but it might be nice to say something like "Sorry if I overreacted about the photo situation. I was worried that DS had a bad day and didn't participate in any of the fun. I realize he was probably just busy in another area when each picture was taken. I really love the daily recaps, thank you for sending them!"

I agree with this. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 05:57:43 PM
Re the crying - I'd like to offer you a little hug because it sounds like you had a rough, emotional day, and I've been there. Stoopid pregnancy hormones!

I don't think you owe the daycare providers an apology, but it might be nice to say something like "Sorry if I overreacted about the photo situation. I was worried that DS had a bad day and didn't participate in any of the fun. I realize he was probably just busy in another area when each picture was taken. I really love the daily recaps, thank you for sending them!"

It was quite absurd, thanks for the hug.

I was toying with the idea of saying something to the receptionist this morning, seeing it was her I emailed, but she didn't mention it so I hesitated.   She was very friendly and lovely as always, we stopped and chatted about a couple of things.    The "room leader" (head teacher) who is responsible for the book does the later start so wasn't there, but it's her I think I should say something to, because really it's almost as if I was complaining about her which isn't fair.   I normally talk to her a fair bit at pick-up so I will say something to her about how I was a bit disappointed at the time and worried about what he'd been doing all day, but I do understand that it isn't always easy to get them all in there so I will try to be more understanding. 

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 06:00:05 PM

...it seemed a very tiny thing to make sure there's at least a glimpse of each child. ...
As I said, I think that's asking a lot more than you think it is, to ask them to do that every day.

It's really more work than you think--it would take a quick "photo dump" and turn it into a longer, structured chore.
You said the receptionist sends it earlier or later, "depending on how busy she is." So, if she gets busy enough to have to put off the sending of that email, then she is too busy to have to stop and run down a checklist for every single kid in every single class for the daycare.
   I have done things like this, checking against a list to be sure everyone is there--believe me, it is WAY more work than you realize.


Also: those pics aren't really intended so much to show you your child; you know what he looks like. They're to show you what the center is doing during the day.  And you have info that you can then use to ask your child: "I saw you guys played with trucks today, how was it?"  "Did you like the bananas for snack?"

I have that same disappointment when my kid doesn't show up in the pictures. But it doesn't mean anything, and it's not fair to ask.

Hugs, and also--a compliment!!


Look at you--you had a little twinge that told you something was off with your choice.

I was just feeling uneasy about having mentioned it at all, which it seems from this thread was the appropriate way to be feeling!!       


 That's some good instincts! And this is one of those "practice" situations. Next time, when you think it through, you'll make a decision that -doesn't- leave you with a twinge.


I say let this totally drop; I don't think an apology is necessary. Sort of a "least said, soonest mended" thing.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 06:07:28 PM
I'm reminded a little of the candy jar thread. This is a nice little extra that your daycare centre is providing and you're complaining that they're doing it wrong. I think it would be nice of you to give them a light, sorry I was a bit silly, apology.

That's an interesting perspective - all of my friends children are in different daycare centres (different brands, philosophies, locations) and they all get a daily email with photos of the kids and telling them what they've been doing.  The exact style and content vary, of course.   I believe they do keep some paper records in the room as well on the kids, but I've never seen them.    The book tells us what activities the children have done today and pictures of them engaging in those activities, the email also tells us what lunch was served.   Is the email book an Australian thing??      (Actually somewhat related, one of my friend's daughter just started daycare at a different centre and is really, really struggling with separation anxiety - she literally cries all day - and my friend said to me a couple of weeks ago "You know it's not been a good day when there's no picture of your child in the email!"  Because in her case, her child was crying so much that she didn't participate in any activities and wasn't playing at all, she just sat and cried all day.   She wasn't upset about her child not being in the pictures, because she knew why and was dealing with a much bigger problem, but clearly she thought it was an abnormal thing for a child not to be included!)

Yes, I'm aware the most Australian daycare centres are doing this now, my son's daycare does it as well. Just like many workplaces have a candy jar, but it's still not something that the daycare centre or the office is required to provide. And this is why it reminds me of the other thread - it's become such a commonplace thing in your mind that you're seeing it as part of the essential service and overreacting when your son isn't included, instead of being grateful for all the other days that you have received photos of your children.

Yes, they know their kids, but it sounds like they grab the camera and take pics through out the day.  They are not going to remember who they took a pic of, and compare that with who the other teachers took.  Seeing as how it's never happened before, I think it's just something disappointing that you need to let go.

They upload all the photos onto the laptop, then go through and pick ones to use for the report.   So they can see the big picture of what they have before putting it together.     

Yes, I will obviously let it go, as was always my intention.   This was most definitely a retrospective question!     (And yes, I know it's a trivial matter.   All of my etiquette questions are trivial matters.  My real problems I deal with in real life not on the internet  :)). 

Have you ever worked in childcare? I only ask because you keep impressing on us how easy it should be for the daycare providers to include pictures of everyone but, speaking as a former daycare provider, it's not. It's really not. As a mother yourself, you should know how often your child does something cute but by the time you get the camera and take a snap he's stopped being cute and is now facing away, crying, picking his nose, etc. Now imagine doing that with twelve kids.

So you take your pictures all day long, not really paying attention to how many you've got of whom because you've got twelve kids to look after, meals to prepare, nappies to change, cleaning, paperwork, tantrums, naps, and then you upload all the photos and maybe you notice that today you didn't get a picture of Cellach's kid but hey, you've included him every other day so it should be okay, you don't have the time to try and get another photo now. Or maybe you don't even notice because you've got a bunch of other stuff to do and it's not like you're putting together a professional yearbook, it's just an overview of the day so parents get an idea of what their children have been doing. It happens. It doesn't mean anything.

If you're concerned that it means your child has had a bad day, then ask the providers if he had a bad day. But pointing out that your child wasn't included... I'm sure that it really was light and breezy, the way that you brought it up, but I know how lesser complaints than this can turn into big deals and if I were the provider, I might be worried that you were going to make this into a thing. Which is why I think it would be a kindness to say, "I was a bit silly yesterday, sorry."

JenJay posted before me and her wording is perfect.

I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: QueenfaninCA on February 12, 2014, 06:10:45 PM
I find it interesting a few people are commenting on how many kids there are and how hard it would be to keep track.   I pop in and out twice per day (drop off and pick up) and yet I know the names of nearly every single child in that room.   The ones I don't know it's because they are brand new in the past couple of weeks!   (Start of the year, new kids).    Given the low staff turnover and that they spend all day with them I'd be surprised if they couldn't tell from a glance who was who and who was missing.   They don't run a routine in that room, the kids each have their own schedule based on their needs, yet the teachers know exactly who needs to sleep, who needs to eat, who needs a bottle etc.     So they definitely know their kids!   (And yes, I agree that given they're doing all that you could argue that they then don't have as much time to devote to the book.  But my point is that they *do* devote extensive time to the book, despite doing all of these other things).   Oh well, will be interesting to see what happens today!

The time it takes to check has almost nothing to do with how well they know the kids. If more than five kids are involved it simply doesn't work to glance at the pictures to makes sure everyone is in at least one of them. You actually have to have a list of all kids (on paper or in your brain) and go through the pictures kid by kid to check.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 06:11:03 PM

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point).

It would make that task about 6 times longer. Right now, it's probably about 2 minutes, including boot-up time.
And they're considering things even then--are the right activities represented, did they get the tent the kids made, do they have a group to maximize the chances of all the kids included, did they spot any particularly nice ones, done.

Believe me, it is not as quick an add-on as you think. Every day? Your kid will be in there tomorrow, and you'll be picking him up in just a few hours.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: lollylegs on February 12, 2014, 06:14:18 PM
I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 

And as a few of us have pointed out, yes, it does take that much longer and requires time and effort that the providers might not have.

The thing is, you keep saying that it's not a big deal but then when someone says that you're overreacting or provides a reason why your child might have been forgotten, you've got a counterpoint about how he should have been included. It kind of feels like you're posting for validation.

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   

I'm happy to see this - so often these things become a thankless task where you never receive a thank you but the parents will let you know when they're not happy about something! So it's good that you do let them know how much you appreciate their efforts.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 06:15:22 PM
...that not every child gets a photo in there every day ...

This is very likely true--you don't check every day to be sure everyone else's kid is in there, do you?

Quote
... he's never not been in there at all before...
There's a first time for everything. And, you don't know how often other kids have "not been in there at all."

Quote
...it seemed a very tiny thing to make sure there's at least a glimpse of each child. ...
As I said, I think that's asking a lot more than you think it is, to ask them to do that every day.

It's really more work than you think--it would take a quick "photo dump" and turn it into a longer, structured chore.
You said the receptionist sends it earlier or later, "depending on how busy she is." So, if she gets busy enough to have to put off the sending of that email, then she is too busy to have to stop and run down a checklist for every single kid in every single class for the daycare.
   I have done things like this, checking to be sure everyone is there--believe me, it is WAY more work than you realize.
Quote
I don't think any other kids were left out based on a quick headcount.  (I just checked specifically to give you an idea of the context).   

But you don't know what has happened on other days with other kids.

I do think you shouldn't have called. And I don't think you should have persisted in mentioning anything after they said, "Don't worry, not every kid makes it in every day."

Also: those pics aren't really intended so much to show you your child; you know what he looks like. They're to show you what the center is doing during the day.  And you have info that you can then use to ask your child: "I saw you guys played with trucks today, how was it?"  "Did you like the bananas for snack?"

I have that same disappointment when my kid doesn't show up in the pictures. But it doesn't mean anything, and it's not fair to ask.

I'm not sure if you've read through the whole thread as a few of your points don't make much sense to me.   Sure I can ask my 12 month old if he liked the bananas but he's probably going to make some unintelligible noises and throw a ball at me.... needs to work on those communication skills still.   ;)   Not a great source of information.   And no I don't expect the receptionist to match the photos off against a list... all she does is send the email, she has nothing to do with the actual book being put together.   This is done by the head teacher, she uploads all of the photos to her laptop and then goes through and selects the ones she wants to use.  She knows all 12 children, which is the max number in that room on any day.   (This centre doesn't offer casual days so there is no variation in who attends unless they are away/sick.   The exact same kids are there on the same days, we pay for the same fixed days regardless). 

Also, I'm very glad you said I shouldn't have called... seeing I didn't call.    There were no phone calls involved in this situation.   They sent me an email, I replied to the email.   It is a much more minor situation than most posters seem to think. 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 06:16:09 PM
and you shouldn't have emailed.

sorry to get the verbs wrong.

And you can talk to your child about what's in the pictures even if he can't answer.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 06:32:14 PM
I've done nannying and babysitting, but no I haven't worked in childcare.   When I was younger I spent full days nannying for a family of 6 kids under the age of 8 including toddler twins and an infant (and yes, it was the chaos it sounds).    I'm not in any way suggesting their job is easy and I don't need a lecture on the challenges they face.   Like I said, I'm a parent who has never demanded anything - I let them set the routine, and do what they need to do to make the day work.   I definitely understand that they need to be trusted to get on with it, because it's challenging wrangling that many kids.   Each teacher has 3-4 toddlers each in their care, each eating and sleeping at different times. And they manage to do art activities and music activities every single day!  It's a big job.

When I made the point you are referring to it wasn't to suggest that "it's easy" it was just to point out that if they're already assigning a teacher to sit down and carefully select 12 or more photos from the computer surely it doesn't take much longer to check that the ones you select cover all the kids, instead of covering all but 1 kid.   I still believe that's a valid point.  (Although, as others have mentioned, if there are NO photos of that kid it might not be possible to rectify at that point). 

And as a few of us have pointed out, yes, it does take that much longer and requires time and effort that the providers might not have.

The thing is, you keep saying that it's not a big deal but then when someone says that you're overreacting or provides a reason why your child might have been forgotten, you've got a counterpoint about how he should have been included. It kind of feels like your posting for validation.

Oh and they definitely know how much I love the books - I will often say things like "I loved that photo on Monday!" or "That activity looked so fun" etc.    And when the book is a bit later being sent out (I normally pick up DS around 4:30) I'll ask excitedly on the way out what time the books are being sent.    They get a lot of positive feedback and thanks from me on a regular basis.   When they had an email glitch for a couple of days and couldn't do daybooks, the room leader would show me the photos of my son on the laptop at pick-up instead (they weren't doing that for everybody it was because they knew I wanted to see the pictures!)   :)   

I'm happy to see this - so often these things become a thankless task where you never receive a thank you but the parents will let you know when they're not happy about something! So it's good that you do let them know how much you appreciate their efforts.

It's a discussion forum, I'm simply engaging in the discussion.    I think I've given plenty of mea culpa on some points posters have raised which I realised were valid.  Other points I don't fully agree with.    Am I required to pick one side 100%?     I appreciate all of the feedback but it doesn't have to be all or nothing.   And no, I am not looking for validation.   Given the majority of the thread has been firmly in the "you were wrong" camp, I would probably have run away after the first page if validation was what I was seeking.   I really wish it didn't have to come down to that after all of this dialogue.

I do agree that some of the points that were already addressed/discussed earlier in the discussion have been raised again and we are now going in circles, so I have been repeating myself which I know from experiences is tiresome for those following the thread.   

Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: TootsNYC on February 12, 2014, 06:33:51 PM
Quote
Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   

Yeah, I think this is one of those situations in which something that is mostly interesting is posted for discussion, and sometimes it's seen as having a bigger impact on the OP than it really did.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Sharnita on February 12, 2014, 06:39:58 PM
I definitely wouldn't depend on these photos as evidence that your child is happy.  If you have persistant concerns about how to figure determine this, talk to whomever you need to talk to in order to identify a reliable measure.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 06:40:27 PM
Quote
Thanks everybody for your comments!   Like I said, this is a very, very minor situation.  But etiquette covers the minor day-to-day social interactions we have, so that's why I posted it here.   

Yeah, I think this is one of those situations in which something that is mostly interesting is posted for discussion, and sometimes it's seen as having a bigger impact on the OP than it really did.

Absolutely!    I think we often react by thinking "Why is this such a big deal that they're bothering to write about it or discuss it at length?"    :)    ...sometimes the answer is just "I really don't want to get stuck into reading the criteria for our new quality standard and start writing the audit report, hanging out on eHell to discuss what happened yesterday is much more interesting...."
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 06:43:26 PM
I definitely wouldn't depend on these photos as evidence that your child is happy.  If you have persistant concerns about how to figure determine this, talk to whomever you need to talk to in order to identify a reliable measure.

It is but one cog in the wheel of things that reassure me, and I have no overall concerns.   I assure you if I had any concerns regarding his care I would be raising them with the appropriate persons, not posting about it on the internet.  Actually, if I had concerns about his care or wellbeing I wouldn't even be on the internet - I'd be with him.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: goldilocks on February 12, 2014, 07:11:50 PM
My DD works in a daycare and she said that if her daycare did this every day (as a voluntary thing, because they don't have to) and someone complained that their child was not in the picture, it would make them want to stop doing it!

If your child was frequently left out I'd say something,   But one day???    My DD's director would probably make them start looking through the pictures and make sure each child was accounted for, and really they do have better things to do.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: stargazer on February 12, 2014, 08:23:20 PM
As a photo junkie (I take an average of 20GB of photos each month of my son) it's still disappointing to me and I hope it doesn't become a pattern.

20 GB?  Even assuming a pic is 8MB on the high end, that's over 2,500 pics a month.  And you're worried about not seeing one at daycare?
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: miranova on February 12, 2014, 08:32:51 PM
I've literally never heard of this being done.  Must definitely be a regional thing.  My children are all much older now, but I don't have any photos of our 5 children at their daycare.  I don't have any mementos of that time.  You must have dozens, or even hundreds.  That's awesome!  I would never dream of complaining about one day being missing.
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 08:37:48 PM
As a photo junkie (I take an average of 20GB of photos each month of my son) it's still disappointing to me and I hope it doesn't become a pattern.

20 GB?  Even assuming a pic is 8MB on the high end, that's over 2,500 pics a month.  And you're worried about not seeing one at daycare?

That sounds about right.   Both the camera and my phone have the quick capture that often takes a dozen shots at one click, so obviously there are many duplicates of the same setting.    So if we're taking photos of him playing with a new toy or climbing into his tree house just taking a dozen snaps could end up being a couple of hundred photos quite easily, even if we're playing for an hour and only taking photos for 2 minutes.    (And no, I don't spend all my time looking through a camera, and yes we have lots of playtime without a camera shoved in his face, and lots of quality time together!  :))    But yes, I am very obsessed with capturing moments of his life.   And I derive a great deal of pleasure from looking through and reliving happy memories through photos.  I never delete a single photo, not even those that are blurry.   I save all of the photo books from the daycare into a folder on my computer.   I'm thinking there's probably not a lot of point saving yesterdays though as there's no record in it that he was even there. 

I tell you this because you asked the question so I'm happy to answer, but this is really a personal preference not etiquette.     I mentioned my photo obsession because it seemed relevant to why having photos from his day are important to me.   I do realise that this is not the norm for many people.   (Before having my son it was my cats who were photographed a dozen times per day - it's certainly not just about him although he's my favourite thing to photograph so far!) 
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
I've literally never heard of this being done.  Must definitely be a regional thing.  My children are all much older now, but I don't have any photos of our 5 children at their daycare.  I don't have any mementos of that time.  You must have dozens, or even hundreds.  That's awesome!  I would never dream of complaining about one day being missing.

It might be more of a recent thing rather than regional perhaps, as the technology has become easier and cheaper.   I'm not sure what they use to get it into the cool format they use, but obviously they have some kind of software because it's much more detailed than just a Word document PDF'd!    My intention was never to make a complaint or create drama, just to mention it so they knew that I noticed and that it was important to me.  Because it is.   

In all honesty, I don't think I could have put him into daycare if they weren't taking photos of him.   It was a big part of my decision.  (Secondary of course to more important considerations such as staff turnover, staff training, quality of the environment etc).  It's not the cheapest centre but I do love it.   He's only in care 3 days per week but it's nice having pictures of what he's been doing on those days.   (Also great for showing my VERY anti-daycare mother.... "Look, son is doing painting, isn't that great and look how much fun he's having?").   
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: gramma dishes on February 12, 2014, 09:30:08 PM
You know, as a grandmother I've had some of these things happen:

1.  birthday of grandchild #5
Went to water park.  Was trying hard to photograph both #4 and #5.  Almost all pictures of #4 turned out really, really cute.  Almost all pictures of #5 sadly did not.  Dilemma.  Do I show Mommy all the pictures? 
I didn't.  I showed her a few of both and that was that.

2.  grandchildren 1,2,3
Similar situations.  Sometimes one child just is "easier" to capture on a certain day.  Sometimes I'll take pictures of all three together and one will have decided at the precise moment the shutter snaps to stick his finger in his nose, thus making the whole picture look unpleasant.  Do I keep the pictures?  Yes.  Do I show their Mom?  No.

They may have actually taken a couple of pictures with your son in them that turned out to be less than flattering.  It may be that he wasn't even the ONE that made the pictures less desirable, but because of something these were not pictures the daycare chose to pass on.

One day?  I'd let it go. 

If they go for a week without any pictures of your child?  Yes.  I'd inquire.

I fear that if too many mothers complain about one day without a picture of their child, then the daycare will stop doing it altogether.

What you MIGHT do is if for example, there are one or more pictures of kids stringing beads, asking him if he strung beads that day and see what his own answer is.  It may be "Yeah, Mommy!!  I'm making you a bracelet but it isn't finished yet and it's a surprise!"  or it may be "No, I didn't really feel like stringing beads so I got a truck and went over to another part of the room and played with that all by myself."
Title: Re: Daycare photos - where's my child?
Post by: Ceallach on February 12, 2014, 09:45:23 PM
You know, as a grandmother I've had some of these things happen:

1.  birthday of grandchild #5
Went to water park.  Was trying hard to photograph both #4 and #5.  Almost all pictures of #4 turned out really, really cute.  Almost all pictures of #5 sadly did not.  Dilemma.  Do I show Mommy all the pictures? 
I didn't.  I showed her a few of both and that was that.

2.  grandchildren 1,2,3
Similar situations.  Sometimes one child just is "easier" to capture on a certain day.  Sometimes I'll take pictures of all three together and one will have decided at the precise moment the shutter snaps to stick his finger in his nose, thus making the whole picture look unpleasant.  Do I keep the pictures?  Yes.  Do I show their Mom?  No.

They may have actually taken a couple of pictures with your son in them that turned out to be less than flattering.  It may be that he wasn't even the ONE that made the pictures less desirable, but because of something these were not pictures the daycare chose to pass on.

One day?  I'd let it go. 

If they go for a week without any pictures of your child?  Yes.  I'd inquire.

I fear that if too many mothers complain about one day without a picture of their child, then the daycare will stop doing it altogether.

What you MIGHT do is if for example, there are one or more pictures of kids stringing beads, asking him if he strung beads that day and see what his own answer is.  It may be "Yeah, Mommy!!  I'm making you a bracelet but it isn't finished yet and it's a surprise!"  or it may be "No, I didn't really feel like stringing beads so I got a truck and went over to another part of the room and played with that all by myself.l"

I will be absolutely stoked when my 12 month old is capable of having these conversations with me!   :)   Might be a little while away though.