Etiquette Hell

Wedding Bliss and Blues => Gifts, Registries and Money => Topic started by: Last_Dance on March 05, 2014, 02:36:53 PM

Title: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Last_Dance on March 05, 2014, 02:36:53 PM
Since DF and I have been living together for two years, we decided to register at a travel agency instead of at the usual department store - in short, we are doing the "honeymoon fund"

Here's the problem, though: DF thinks we should put the travel agency's business card in a small envelope inside the invitations and mail them together.

I'm pretty sure it counts as pushing information, even though it was first "pulled" from us - moreover, I've just realized that there's a group of people with whom we won't be able to speak before the invitations are sent (you know, distant family members, our parents' friends...), so now I'm even more opposed to the idea.

We agreed to submit to E-Hell's verdict. What's the right thing to do?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: wolfie on March 05, 2014, 02:38:37 PM
Since DF and I have been living together for two years, we decided to register at a travel agency instead of at the usual department store - in short, we are doing the "honeymoon fund"

Here's the problem, though: DF thinks we should put the travel agency's business card in a small envelope inside the invitations and mail them together.

I'm pretty sure it counts as pushing information, even though it was first "pulled" from us - moreover, I've just realized that there's a group of people with whom we won't be able to speak before the invitations are sent (you know, distant family members, our parents' friends...), so now I'm even more opposed to the idea.

We agreed to submit to E-Hell's verdict. What's the right thing to do?

How was it pulled from you? Sounds like you will be sending it to people who never asked you where you are registered. I would not send them.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: TootsNYC on March 05, 2014, 02:44:12 PM
Honeymoon registries are *so* risky--I wouldn't include the registry info in the invitations. Ever.

It's not good form to include ANY registry/gift info in the invitation. There are some individuals who want it in there, and a lot of people might forgive it.

But for a non-traditional registry, you really should be careful.

You could make a small card that says: "see extra info on our wedding website" and give the URL. And -there- you can have a page for "gift ideas" and say, "People have been asking what they can give us. We need very few of the traditional things, because we've been out on our own. But we're saving for a memorable honeymoon; if you're interested in contributing to that, here's the info:"
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: gellchom on March 05, 2014, 02:45:39 PM
Oh, please don't! 

All the effort you are putting into your pretty, romantic invitation will be overshadowed in many if not most of your guests' minds, even those who don't think that registry information of any kind should never go into a wedding invitation.  A commercial business card?  Just no place for that in a wedding invitation.

I'm glad your fiance agreed to abide by eHell's verdict.  What a compliment!

Whoever "pulled" the info from you -- just send the contact info to them in an email or something.

Don't give it to anyone else unless and until they ask for it.

Toots's suggestions are great.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: SamiHami on March 05, 2014, 02:49:55 PM
The idea of including the card with your invitations is horrible. Actually, honeymoon registries are not cool either, but if you are going to do one, please don't make it worse by adding the card. (The only thing worse that I can think of was an invitation I received that had the full color LOGOS of the three stores the HC were registered printed on the invitation itself! I was told that it was okay because the bride's mother was a wedding planner so she knew it was okay to do etiquette-wise. I really wish I'd saved that invite!).

At most I'd say create a wedding website and in a very teeny, tiny corner that the reader would have to seek out have a link to your registry. And please, at least register at a store or two so that those who are put off by a honeymoon registry can select something else that you might like. Otherwise you are likely to end up with a bunch of stuff you don't really want or need.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: Last_Dance on March 05, 2014, 02:55:50 PM
Since DF and I have been living together for two years, we decided to register at a travel agency instead of at the usual department store - in short, we are doing the "honeymoon fund"

Here's the problem, though: DF thinks we should put the travel agency's business card in a small envelope inside the invitations and mail them together.

I'm pretty sure it counts as pushing information, even though it was first "pulled" from us - moreover, I've just realized that there's a group of people with whom we won't be able to speak before the invitations are sent (you know, distant family members, our parents' friends...), so now I'm even more opposed to the idea.

We agreed to submit to E-Hell's verdict. What's the right thing to do?

How was it pulled from you? Sounds like you will be sending it to people who never asked you where you are registered. I would not send them.

I was thinking of our closest family and friends, who already know about us being registered at a travel agency because they asked, when I wrote that.
I realized that wasn't actually our whole guest list while I was typing the OP and some things got lost in editing ^^' sorry

You could make a small card that says: "see extra info on our wedding website" and give the URL. "

We haven't got a wedding website, but since the invitations won't be going out until May/June, we could always set up one...  Are they very common?
They don't seem to be here in Europe, but we're only the second couple in our circle of friends to get married
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: lofty on March 05, 2014, 02:58:10 PM
There is nothing worse than getting a pretty invitation in the mail only to have those little registry cards come fluttering out of it. I find it ruins the excitement of being invited to a wedding and replaces it with "oh look, here's there wish list!"

I support the tucking it away on a wedding website somewhere with the "gift ideas" page. I included a business card sized insert with ours that directed our guests to the website for things to do around town, accommodations and the like. Once there they could find our registries if they so chose.

If someone asks you or your family where you are registered, then you can tell them; that's the "pulling" vs. "pushing" the information on them via an insert card.

Not sure about how common the websites are in Europe, but here in the States it's very easy to get a free one from The Knot, Wedding Day, etc. My sister set up a lovely one that includes their engagement photos, fun facts about how they met, hotel & rehearsal information, a page about the attendants and tucked away in there is their registry information.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: lowspark on March 05, 2014, 03:01:17 PM
Honestly, if I received a wedding invitation with a travel agency's business card inserted, I'd be baffled! I'd wonder if the bride or groom or someone close to them worked there and this was an attempt at including a bit of advertising.

I mean, how's that going to work? Are you going to write a note on the card that says, "call these people to give us a gift"?

As PPs have said, having a honeymoon registry is frowned upon. Don't compound that by including registry information in the invitation is a definite no-no.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 05, 2014, 03:49:48 PM
POD to the others. Aside from the rule about not including any kind of gift information in the wedding invitation, I would also be totally confused to find a travel agency business card there, with no explanation.

If you don't do a website, that's fine. You can wait until people ask you what you want, and after saying that you really have everything you need, if they still want suggestions, you can say that you're going to location X for your honeymoon, and that you've registered with a travel agency for the trip. I've actually never heard of registering with a travel agency the way you would at a store, so it wouldn't have occurred to me that this exists. I've heard of honeymoon funds, but I guess I didn't realize that was how they worked--usually it's described as being directed to the couple's website. Does the travel agency have a page just for you two with purchase info? That's the website you could give people, when asked for further info.

You might also consider ideas that are related to the honeymoon location, but don't involve directly contributing to the honeymoon fund, that you can tell people when asked, or even register for. Pretending it's a tropical beach--light beach reads, sun protection gear, new luggage, flip-flops and cover-ups, beach towels. Even gift certificates to specific stores/restaurants at that location (which are also available easily from a distance). Basically stuff that you would have spent money on anyway or that would be really nice in the context of the honeymoon.

You could also register for stuff you'd just like, books or DVDs or whatever. I know some people don't find that kind of thing "wedding-y" enough, but then they could choose between a wish list of books, contributing to the honeymoon fund, or doing something on their own.

To me, the thing with a honeymoon fund is that it's basically just... giving money. Which some people are fine with and might have done anyway, but that's only giving your guests one single option of a thing to give you, unless they go totally off on their own with little guidance. It's like registering for 100 identical blue bath towels or something. "No really, that's all we want. We love these blue towels." Actually that would be kind of funny...
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: menley on March 05, 2014, 03:59:29 PM
Honestly, if I received a wedding invitation with a travel agency's business card inserted, I'd be baffled! I'd wonder if the bride or groom or someone close to them worked there and this was an attempt at including a bit of advertising.

I mean, how's that going to work? Are you going to write a note on the card that says, "call these people to give us a gift"?

As PPs have said, having a honeymoon registry is frowned upon. Don't compound that by including registry information in the invitation is a definite no-no.

I agree with this, I would have no idea what to do with the card unless it specifically had a link to your honeymoon registry. If it's just a card for the travel agency, I'd think "huh, how'd that get in there?" and toss it.

The best ways to spread the word are 1) simple word of mouth - when people ask where you're registered, tell them, and 2) wedding websites. Every wedding I've attended in the past 5 years has had a website (both US and Europe), so they are quite common these days.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: Hmmmmm on March 05, 2014, 04:18:19 PM
Honestly, if I received a wedding invitation with a travel agency's business card inserted, I'd be baffled! I'd wonder if the bride or groom or someone close to them worked there and this was an attempt at including a bit of advertising.

I mean, how's that going to work? Are you going to write a note on the card that says, "call these people to give us a gift"?

As PPs have said, having a honeymoon registry is frowned upon. Don't compound that by including registry information in the invitation is a definite no-no.

I'd be baffled about the business card too, unless it was a business card that provided the details of the honeymoon registry.

If your not planning to set up a wedding site, then as people ask where you are registered send them the info then, through email or mail. And make sure your family has the info in case they are asked directly.
I agree with this, I would have no idea what to do with the card unless it specifically had a link to your honeymoon registry. If it's just a card for the travel agency, I'd think "huh, how'd that get in there?" and toss it.

The best ways to spread the word are 1) simple word of mouth - when people ask where you're registered, tell them, and 2) wedding websites. Every wedding I've attended in the past 5 years has had a website (both US and Europe), so they are quite common these days.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on March 06, 2014, 09:05:35 PM
Some people will be offended. You have to ask yourself if you're all right with that.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on March 07, 2014, 10:52:28 AM
I would be so confused about getting a travel agent's business card in a wedding invite. I would probably think this is who I should call if I need to set up hotel rooms, or maybe you'd gotten some cheap flights through her for your guests. I would not think it had anything to do with a registry.

Wedding website are pretty common, in fact I haven't attended a wedding yet without one. And I know there are ways to set up one for free, simple basic, very easy. I'm not sure where because my Partner is building ours from scratch because that's who she is and what she does and it's making her happy so I'm not arguing.

I'd leave the card out, if people ask you can tell them, or let it get around by word of mouth.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: gellchom on March 07, 2014, 11:14:08 AM
I would be so confused about getting a travel agent's business card in a wedding invite. I would probably think this is who I should call if I need to set up hotel rooms, or maybe you'd gotten some cheap flights through her for your guests. I would not think it had anything to do with a registry.
That's a really good point.  I think that's what I'd think, too.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: Sharnita on March 08, 2014, 10:40:55 AM
Nope. Really bad idea for multiple reasons. If people want to know, they will ask.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: Last_Dance on March 10, 2014, 11:12:29 AM
So, I told DF the result of our survey (smug doesn't look good on me  >:D)

I also shared your solutions, but he thinks a wedding website would be over the top and doesn't trust word-of-mouth.

So, new question: what if we did add a card to the invitations saying "For additional information please contact [Name] at [appropriate phone number]"?

No mentions of registries whatsoever and if somebody has questions or problems, they'll know how to reach us.

If the extra card is appropriate, is it okay if we write it by hand instead of having it printed? The invitations are already done ^^'

Third question: even though our invitations have "Last_Dance and DF announce their wedding", can we also put our parents's names and contact information on the extra card?
Since some of our guests are closer to them rather than us (you know, distant family members and family friends), DF thinks they might prefer talking directLy with our parents.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: lowspark on March 10, 2014, 11:26:27 AM
He doesn't trust word of mouth... meaning what? Is he really that concerned with making sure the only gifts you receive are contributions to the honeymoon fund? That sounds, well, sorry, but that sounds a bit "gimme".

You know, if I receive an invitation to a wedding and I need more info, I don't really need a card, handwritten or otherwise, to know that I should call the couple or their parents (if I know them better). I think your DF is fretting too much about this.

Regardless of how you handle this, some people will contribute, some will probably give cash, and you'll get some gifts which are neither.

I see the business card or the "for more info" card as way more over the top (as in, atypical) than a wedding website.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: wolfie on March 10, 2014, 11:27:27 AM
So, I told DF the result of our survey (smug doesn't look good on me  >:D)

I also shared your solutions, but he thinks a wedding website would be over the top and doesn't trust word-of-mouth.

So, new question: what if we did add a card to the invitations saying "For additional information please contact [Name] at [appropriate phone number]"?

No mentions of registries whatsoever and if somebody has questions or problems, they'll know how to reach us.

If the extra card is appropriate, is it okay if we write it by hand instead of having it printed? The invitations are already done ^^'

Third question: even though our invitations have "Last_Dance and DF announce their wedding", can we also put our parents's names and contact information on the extra card?
Since some of our guests are closer to them rather than us (you know, distant family members and family friends), DF thinks they might prefer talking directLy with our parents.

If I got a card like that my first thought would be "additional information on what?" And then when I didn't need additional information I would start getting worried that I was missing something because you wouldn't have included that note unless you were pretty confident that I would need to ask you something. I don't need a prompt to ask you where you are registered. Either I will want to know and will ask, or I don't care and am getting you what I think you could need. And if I am your parent's friend then I would have even less problems calling them and asking.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Teenyweeny on March 10, 2014, 11:27:49 AM
If you don't have a wedding website (and I don't think they're OTT, but if you don't want one, that's cool), you can just tell people what you want when they ask you. And they will ask you (or a close relative), believe me.

I didn't have a registry, and we didn't put any gift info on our wedding website. Guess what? We still got gifts! Some were tangible, some were cash, some were charitable donations (if anybody asked, we told them we wanted them to donate to a charity of their choice in our name).

So your fiance is worried that 'word of mouth' won't travel far enough. To that, I have to answer 'so what?'  Is your fiance seriously going to be put out if people don't buy from the honeymoon fund? People aren't obligated to get you the gift you specify. In addition to that, it's been my experience that in the absence of a registry, most people give cash, which you can put towards your honeymoon.

Please, don't put in any business cards, or cryptic 'phone for info' messages. For one thing, I'd assume that was for help with finding hotels or something. Either put the info on your website (not on the front page, but I think deliberately clicking a link on the home page counts as 'asking for the information'), or let word of mouth travel.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: LemonZen on March 10, 2014, 11:30:35 AM
I don't know if I understand exactly what you are saying in your update, but it sounds confusing to me. So you would hand write a travel agent's name and phone number on a card and say to call for more information?

I would not know what to do with that. I don't want to call a stranger for a vague "more information". That would be awkward for both sides. I would probably also think I dialed a wrong number when the travel agency picked up.

As for your parents, don't put their info in. If there are people who would prefer to contact them I would assume they know how to do so. If they don't know your parents, I'm guessing they will not want to call them for anything.

I think you'd might even get some people RSVPing to these numbers out of sheer confusion.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: GlitterIsMyDrug on March 10, 2014, 11:41:32 AM
So, new question: what if we did add a card to the invitations saying "For additional information please contact [Name] at [appropriate phone number]"?

So here's how I've played this out working in my head. I open my invitation and see an additional card that I can call a number for additioanl information. On what? Well, I'm a curious little kitty, I'll call up the number.

Travel Agent: Thanks for calling the Let's Go travel agency! This is Jenny, how can I help you?
Me: Hi Jenny, I think I might have the wrong number. I'm looking for additional information on Last_Dance's wedding? This 867-5309?
Travel Agent: Yep, you got the right place! How do you want to contribute to Last_Dance's honeymoon fund?
Me: I'm sorry what? I was looking for more information on the wedding. I don't understand what's going on.
Travel Agent: Well, the happy couple has registered with us for a honeymoon, so they included our information so people can contribute.
Me: But...they said more info...so...nothing about the wedding? Like parking?
Travel Agent: Nope, can't help you with that.
Me: Ok, well, thanks...have a nice day Jenny.

And I'm not so sure what DF means he doesn't trust word of mouth. Is he worried people will call the wrong travel agency? Or people won't call the travel agency at all?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: lowspark on March 10, 2014, 11:50:15 AM
I got the idea that the extra card was going to have LastDance and her DF's name and number, and possibly her parents' name & number as well.

Quote
No mentions of registries whatsoever and if somebody has questions or problems, they'll know how to reach us.

Don't your friends already know how to reach you? Especially the ones who are close enough to be invited to your wedding?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: TootsNYC on March 10, 2014, 11:55:55 AM
what number are you thinking of for this:

Quote
... add a card to the invitations saying "For additional information please contact [Name] at [appropriate phone number]"?

. . .if somebody has questions or problems, they'll know how to reach us.


Your own? That's sort of awkward, for people to call you and say, "Where are you registered," and you say, "we want money for our honeymoon." It's not so awkward to say, "oh, we're registered at Macy's," because somehow there's an extra level in the contact. You aren't directly suggesting what they give you; just telling them where the list is.
   But even if you say, "Oh, we're registered for our honeymoon at Travel Agent," that's just really awkward.


Third question: even though our invitations have "Last_Dance and DF announce their wedding", can we also put our parents's names and contact information on the extra card?
Since some of our guests are closer to them rather than us (you know, distant family members and family friends), DF thinks they might prefer talking directLy with our parents.

Do these people not already have your parents' contact info?


(also--does your invite really say "announce"? bcs that's not invitation working. Invitation wording is "request the pleasure of your company" / "request the honor of your presence" / "invite you to join them". When you use the word "announce," you aren't saying "please come." And it'll confuse people.)


My vote: stop caring what people give you. It's sort of not your business, really. Not until it becomes your properly. Or until they directly ask you.
 
And if they do directly ask you, I'd suggest having a few things to say, like, "Well, we have almost everything, but there are a few suggestions on our Macy's registry. And we're saving for a honeymoon. And of course anything you think would be useful would be nice as well."
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 10, 2014, 12:31:14 PM
Still unanimous.  Don't do it.  I'm only chiming in too because your fiance seems to be care what we think.

This is exactly what people mean when they talk about recipients trying too hard to control givers' generosity and being overly concerned with the gifts they want to get to the point of entitlement.  The only polite way to communicate your preferences is to wait until people ask you (or your parents or a close friend) what you want, and then tell them where you are registered or what you prefer, or at most put it discreetly on a link on a website whose URL you provide (which the guests' visiting is tantamount to asking).  Don't push the information on them unasked or try to manipulate them into asking for it.  And as Toots said above, you need to be extra careful with a honeymoon fund, as those are already across the line for many people -- and I guarantee that that includes at least some of your guests, even if they are too polite to say so.

If the phone number is the travel agent's, your guests' experience will be pretty much what GlitterIsMyDrug imagines -- at best.  Some will be disgusted at what will look to them like an attempt to trick them into calling the travel agent and contributing to the honeymoon fund.  Same if it's a friend who has no other "further information" to share than the honeymoon fund.

If the number is yours or your parents', as everyone else points out, they already know how to reach you or them or both, and of course they already know that you are the ones to contact if they need any further information, so the effect will be the same thing: it will look like an attempt to push them to contribute to the honeymoon fund.

And that's because that's exactly what it is.  Tell your fiance to cut it out!   :) 

I, too, wonder what makes him think that a website is over the top, but trying to nudge your friends and family to give you money, for a honeymoon or anything else, is not.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on March 10, 2014, 01:21:08 PM
Out orf all the "registry for funds" ideas, the idea of contributing to someone's honeymoon skeeves me out the most.  Let's face it, we're adults here... everyone looks forward to the honeymoon for the scrabble.  The ability to, shall we say, play in a place where the board is arranged differently than we're used to.  (Everyone talks about the "wedding night" and "so what did you do on your honeymoon, wink wink")

I'm not so sure how I'd react to a registry that's essentially "hey, wanna help us make triple word scores again and again and again?"  (Okay, most times you'd be lucky if you got a couple of double letter scores and the promise of better tiles next game, but still...)

However, even with this in mind, my suggestion would still be to echo the idea of a wedding website.  It's no more "over the top" than a Facebook page is, and 1s and 0s aren't horribly expensive.  ;)  Start a blog there.  Tell people how excited you are.  Document the journey from fiancees to wedded bliss.  Make the whole "buy us a commemorative scrabble set" thing a minor part of it, and you minimize the impact of the nontraditional registry (which, yes, will likely honk some people of royally.) 
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: peaches on March 10, 2014, 01:33:14 PM
I'll add my opinion to the consensus.

It's never appropriate to mention gifts in or with a wedding invitation. So it's best to stop trying to figure out a way to do that.

About adding contact information, if you know people well enough to invite them to your wedding, they already should know how to reach you. Many or most will know how to reach others close to you such as your parents.

Honeymoon registries are hard to pull off without giving offense or seeming to be asking for money (which is not acceptable). If you use such a registry, I would let people know by word of mouth, and I’d also set up a traditional registry offering other gift options with a range of prices.

No one has to have a registry. But, if you’re going to have only one and it’s a honeymoon registry, well that is very limiting as to gift suggestions. 
 
In my experience many people give cash as a wedding gift anyway, which can then be used for a honeymoon.

Please realize that no matter what you say or do, guests are free to give the gift of their choice.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gollymolly2 on March 10, 2014, 02:51:22 PM
Out orf all the "registry for funds" ideas, the idea of contributing to someone's honeymoon skeeves me out the most.  Let's face it, we're adults here... everyone looks forward to the honeymoon for the scrabble.  The ability to, shall we say, play in a place where the board is arranged differently than we're used to.  (Everyone talks about the "wedding night" and "so what did you do on your honeymoon, wink wink")

I'm not so sure how I'd react to a registry that's essentially "hey, wanna help us make triple word scores again and again and again?"  (Okay, most times you'd be lucky if you got a couple of double letter scores and the promise of better tiles next game, but still...)

However, even with this in mind, my suggestion would still be to echo the idea of a wedding website.  It's no more "over the top" than a Facebook page is, and 1s and 0s aren't horribly expensive.  ;)  Start a blog there.  Tell people how excited you are.  Document the journey from fiancees to wedded bliss.  Make the whole "buy us a commemorative scrabble set" thing a minor part of it, and you minimize the impact of the nontraditional registry (which, yes, will likely honk some people of royally.)

Sorry if I'm taking us further off topic, but this is just so strange to me. I really don't think that the honeymoon is all about sex these days (if it ever was).  Maybe I just have a slutty social circle but  for pretty much every wedding I've been to in the last five years, the couple lived together first. 

I think for many people, the honeymoon is their first chance to spend time together as spouses (and I don't mean that sexually). And it may be their last time to take a long trip together, just the two of them, for years or decades.

So for me, I'm happy to contribute to a couple's great vacation together. And I think it's kind of weird to assume a honeymoon registry is functionally a request to subsidize a couple weeks of non-stop sex.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell...
Post by: jedikaiti on March 10, 2014, 02:58:48 PM
So, I told DF the result of our survey (smug doesn't look good on me  >:D)

I also shared your solutions, but he thinks a wedding website would be over the top and doesn't trust word-of-mouth.

So, new question: what if we did add a card to the invitations saying "For additional information please contact [Name] at [appropriate phone number]"?

No mentions of registries whatsoever and if somebody has questions or problems, they'll know how to reach us.

If the extra card is appropriate, is it okay if we write it by hand instead of having it printed? The invitations are already done ^^'

Third question: even though our invitations have "Last_Dance and DF announce their wedding", can we also put our parents's names and contact information on the extra card?
Since some of our guests are closer to them rather than us (you know, distant family members and family friends), DF thinks they might prefer talking directLy with our parents.

If you include THAT, the person will get ALL KINDS of questions. Dress code, what's on the menu, where are you registered, where to stay...

Look, if they want to know where you're registered, they can ask you or your parents. Including a card is asking for gifts, and rude.

Also, have you and DF thought of what will happen if people don't give enough money for a whole trip? Will you have a standing credit at the travel agency for later? You guys cover the rest? Will they send you the money minus a handling fee (and if so, how much)?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Diane AKA Traska on March 10, 2014, 03:35:36 PM
Out orf all the "registry for funds" ideas, the idea of contributing to someone's honeymoon skeeves me out the most.  Let's face it, we're adults here... everyone looks forward to the honeymoon for the scrabble.  The ability to, shall we say, play in a place where the board is arranged differently than we're used to.  (Everyone talks about the "wedding night" and "so what did you do on your honeymoon, wink wink")

I'm not so sure how I'd react to a registry that's essentially "hey, wanna help us make triple word scores again and again and again?"  (Okay, most times you'd be lucky if you got a couple of double letter scores and the promise of better tiles next game, but still...)

However, even with this in mind, my suggestion would still be to echo the idea of a wedding website.  It's no more "over the top" than a Facebook page is, and 1s and 0s aren't horribly expensive.  ;)  Start a blog there.  Tell people how excited you are.  Document the journey from fiancees to wedded bliss.  Make the whole "buy us a commemorative scrabble set" thing a minor part of it, and you minimize the impact of the nontraditional registry (which, yes, will likely honk some people of royally.)

Sorry if I'm taking us further off topic, but this is just so strange to me. I really don't think that the honeymoon is all about sex these days (if it ever was).  Maybe I just have a slutty social circle but  for pretty much every wedding I've been to in the last five years, the couple lived together first. 

I think for many people, the honeymoon is their first chance to spend time together as spouses (and I don't mean that sexually). And it may be their last time to take a long trip together, just the two of them, for years or decades.

So for me, I'm happy to contribute to a couple's great vacation together. And I think it's kind of weird to assume a honeymoon registry is functionally a request to subsidize a couple weeks of non-stop sex.

Maybe it's just me, but I've heard so many variations of "We had a wonderful two weeks, Hawaii was great, I'm sure the beaches were nice.  ::Giggle::"
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Last_Dance on March 10, 2014, 03:53:35 PM
The extra card would have either our contact info or our contact info plus our parents' - not the travel agent's (all plans of mentioning registries in the invitations got thankfully scrapped).
Guess I'll scrap this one too. I do take full responsibility for it: again, it comes down to distant relatives and our parents' friends. While they might have our parents' number (although they don't seem to use it much - I'm looking at you, Aunt L.), I'm pretty sure they don't have ours and I was hoping to make it easier to coordinate things - not necessarily to let them know about the registry.


Re: DF and word of mouth, I don't know what his problem is, either! I don't understand why he's so fixated on this, I mean word of mouth worked  just fine for my parents and they got married well before the internet or cell phones...  I'm almost tempted to tell him to do whatever he wants since he keeps insisting we do something about it!

ETA: I ought to start a new wedding topic "Problems you didn't expect created by un expected people"
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 10, 2014, 04:09:05 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I've heard so many variations of "We had a wonderful two weeks, Hawaii was great, I'm sure the beaches were nice.  ::Giggle::"

This has not been my experience at all!  Either like PP's the HCs have either lived together before marriage, or at the very least like played Scrabble regularly for years; or they absolutely not the type of people who would make reference to Scrabble at all for any reason!
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 10, 2014, 04:39:19 PM
The extra card would have either our contact info or our contact info plus our parents' - not the travel agent's (all plans of mentioning registries in the invitations got thankfully scrapped).

Guess I'll scrap this one too. I do take full responsibility for it: again, it comes down to distant relatives and our parents' friends. While they might have our parents' number (although they don't seem to use it much - I'm looking at you, Aunt L.), I'm pretty sure they don't have ours and I was hoping to make it easier to coordinate things - not necessarily to let them know about the registry.


You could put an "at home" card in the invitation, complete w/ phone, address, email addresses. And info about "after the wedding my name will/won't change."

Wording it something like: "After the wedding: John and Mary Johnson, address, town, phone, email"  or  "After the wedding: Mary Zibelski and John Johnson, address, town, phone, email"
(though people may think these aren't valid before, I suppose)


And that coordinating is sometimes what's good about wedding websites (though if you don't see them often, there probably aren't many people in your circles who'd know what to do with one).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Sharnita on March 10, 2014, 04:47:08 PM
OP, I think that part of the difficulty is that DF is viewing "off registry" gifts as a problem at all. Word of mouth or no word of mouth,  these are gifts.  That people are providing through their resources.  Instead of working on reassuring him he will get what he wants,  work on being thankful for whatever he gets.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 10, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
Part of the problem is that he's paying any attention to gifts at all. That's one of the problems of a registry--the recipients of gifts are supposed to never think about it.

They're not even, really supposed to be asked about what they want; picking the gift is the giver's responsibility, and dumping it onto the B&G is really not polite.

One thing you might mention to him, to persuade him to drop the whole subject:
   Even people who are generous, and who would probably give cash, are likely to give $50 instead of $75 if they feel that you've been "eyeing the cash in their wallet"--coveting is the old-fashioned word.
   So it's very bad PR to let that sort of thing leak out; you don't want to offend people and make them feel that they have to protect themselves for your avarice--right when they were about to generously give you a present.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lady Snowdon on March 10, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
I don't think including a further information card is necessarily a bad idea, especially if it'll have your name/phone number or parent's name/phone numbers on it.  I wouldn't say it's for "further information" though - that makes people think there's something they're missing, what if the invite isn't complete, etc.  I'd say it should be more of "If you have questions, here are correct numbers/address/emails/whatever to reach us at."  If they have a question about a registry, they can call and ask.  If they have a question about whether Great Aunt Mildred is going to be wearing that awful charcoal and puce green hat again...well, maybe remind them that is Great Aunt Mildred's favorite hat?  ;)

My favorite story of how "pulling" gift info is supposed to work goes like this.  DHtB and I had decided on a cruise for our honeymoon and were super excited, so we were telling everyone in our family.  My mom told a friend who wanted to give us a gift.  So my mom called me and said, "I told Carol Jo you were going on a cruise.  She goes on cruises all the time!  She wants to know what line you're going to be on and the name of the ship so she can do some research and see if there's anything you should know."  I gave my mom the info - Royal Caribbean, Enchantment of the Seas - and thought nothing more of it.  When we got to the ship for our honeymoon, there was a note from Carol Jo, informing us that we had $100 of onboard credit for us to use however we liked.  We used it for a pretty sweet snorkeling/beach trip we wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise.  My mom and Carol Jo had "pulled" the information from me, without me having to volunteer anything, beyond that we'd made honeymoon plans.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: kudeebee on March 10, 2014, 07:37:35 PM
I agree to not include the card.  It really doesn't serve any purpose and will confuse people. If I received a card like that I would be wondering what I needed extra information on. If there is other information that they need to know, then include a sheet that has hotel names/numbers. where to park, etc. 

If people need to get in touch with you or your parents, they will figure out how to do so.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 10, 2014, 07:39:51 PM
I agree to not include the card.  It really doesn't serve any purpose and will confuse people. If I received a card like that I would be wondering what I needed extra information on. If there is other information that they need to know, then include a sheet that has hotel names/numbers. where to park, etc. 

If people need to get in touch with you or your parents, they will figure out how to do so.

You can put your contact info on one of those info sheets, but it does seem weird to be inviting someone to your wedding that doesn't have any contact info for you.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 10, 2014, 09:36:34 PM
I think it's pretty standard to include contact info with an invitation, if only for the purpose of RSVP'ing. So you could include a couple lines somewhere with "RSVP by date: Name, phone number, email." Or maybe you already have response cards with that info. In either case, people who have questions about anything will contact you that way. If you already have something like this, then I don't think you need a "for further information" card. It would be kind of redundant.

I don't think it's a bad idea to include your parents' names, if you're inviting relatives/friends of family who are distant enough that they might need your parents' names to put you in the proper context. Especially if your given names are rather common. (In my family it would be, "Now which James Miller is that? Is that Jimmy's son? Or Big Jim's son? Or Jamie Jr's son?" ::)) There are various invitation wordings that incorporate the parents' names...

Elizabeth & James Miller
and
Frances & Robert Smith
request the honor of your presence at the wedding of their children
Anna Elizabeth Miller
and
Peter Robert Smith

That's pretty traditional. Some might feel this implies the parents are hosting and/or paying for the wedding. I'm sure there's other wording that works the parents' names in without suggesting that.

I think the parents' contact info would only be included if they were, in fact, the ones handling the RSVPs. I guess, if you don't have response cards already, you could make a big RSVP card with multiple contact people--like you, and your mom, and your future father-in-law, so people could contact whoever they felt closer to. I don't think there's anything rude or tacky about that, you just run the risk of an RSVP not being conveyed correctly the more people who are involved.

As for handwritten vs. printed, I don't see a problem with that, as long as your handwriting is neat and legible, of course. Some people might feel it lends a personal touch. Several of my friends have had great success with buying cardstock from a craft store and printing info on it with their home printers--they actually do the entire invitation package that way. So that could be an option, too, if you'd rather have it typed--just try to find some cardstock and a font that matches your invitations.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Wintergreen on March 19, 2014, 05:12:48 AM
Maybe it's me, but I don't see the contact card bad. However, I do think some of the posters might react negatively in this thread as the original question was about registries.

Around here it's common that invite itself has the contact information. It is meant to serve as contact point, often it's couple or parents but it's also normal to have "maid of honor" or bestman as contact point. The contact number in invitation is often serving as one way to do the rsvp (for those that for example need to tell about dietary restrictions and prefer to explain the situation rather than just writing "fish" on some paper), asking for more info about place or other similar stuff, including also the gift ideas. As it is also the idea that one designated person collects the phone rsvps to avoid mix-ups, the contact number might well be person that guest is not familiar with. (eg friends might not know parent's information, relatives won't know bestman's info and parents' friends might not even know the coupes contact info.)

So if this is the kind of contact number you wish to have, so that really the guest can ask about any information at all regarding the wedding, then I think it's fine.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: camlan on March 19, 2014, 07:38:39 AM
The bottom line is: You can't dictate how someone else spends their money.

If someone wants to give you a gift, they'll give you a gift. You can point people towards the honeymoon registry all you want, but some people simply won't consider that a present that they want to give you.

You're in Europe, so the etiquette may be a bit different over there, but in general, etiquette says that you don't ask for gifts. You don't expect gifts.

There's a bit of a conflict with the fact that etiquette also says that wedding guests should give a gift.

So it isn't unusual for brides and grooms to expect gifts.

But while you can guide people to your gifts of choice, you cannot make them choose the gift that you really want.

The wedding website is, IMO, an ingenious way to give people a chance to know where you are registered without the Happy Couple going around telling people.

Word of mouth is also useful, as family and friends to tend to contact those they know are close to the Happy Couple--parents, siblings, members of the wedding party--to ask about registries and gifts.

But putting registry information in the invitation is not approved by etiquette.

And any attempts to direct where the gift money is sent/spent could easily backfire, as Toots mentions above.

The OP's DF needs to accept the fact that some guests will not take advantage of the honeymoon registry, and that putting the registry info in the invitations is not a good move, and work out a solution from there.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 19, 2014, 09:58:20 AM
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: sparksals on March 19, 2014, 10:45:22 AM
Do.Not.Do.It.  Don't do anything that remotely hints at the registry.  You will come off gift grabby. 
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 19, 2014, 11:44:12 AM
I think it is rude to be outwardly ungrateful for a gift - one should always be cheerful and thankful. But I also think it is self-centered (I am struggling with the term I mean) to think poorly of someone because they were not blown away by your "thoughtful" gift that is something they don't want or need. Like the towels in Lynn2000 example. It would be silly to be offended that someone else's taste is not the same as yours, and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 19, 2014, 12:32:54 PM
I think it is rude to be outwardly ungrateful for a gift - one should always be cheerful and thankful. But I also think it is self-centered (I am struggling with the term I mean) to think poorly of someone because they were not blown away by your "thoughtful" gift that is something they don't want or need. Like the towels in Lynn2000 example. It would be silly to be offended that someone else's taste is not the same as yours, and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used.

Yes, I do think there is a very fine line there. For example, Amy has allergies and asthma, and when she was picking out baby toiletries she researched which kinds were best for sensitive skin (both for her own use and assuming the baby might very well be like her). I remember one of her "big" baby shower gifts was a baby tub filled with all kinds of toiletries... none of which were the brands from her list, but rather mainstream brands that she had already looked into and rejected. No one in her immediate family (like her parents or sister) were going to use those brands and they're the sort of thing that are sometimes hard to return. I'm not sure what she did with them in the end, hopefully donated them somewhere that they could be used. Otherwise 80% of the gift would literally go straight to the garbage. You just kind of think, well, that's unfortunate, I'm sure that's not what the giver envisioned when they were happily putting this gift together, but in a sense they just wasted their money, if their goal was to get Amy something she would like and use. If she hadn't specified any brands/products, that would be one thing, but she had already expressed her preferences, so to go with something directly opposed to them seems a little odd to me. Also you kind of have to know Amy, and how she does things, and you would think anyone who came to her baby shower would, but obviously that's not always true.

But at the same time, I think it's not healthy to hold that sort of thing against someone, unless the gift and relationship are such that you really think they're making a negative statement to you. Sometimes--most of the time--you just have to appreciate the genuinely kind thought, and write off the actual gift.

To bring it back to the OP, I can see why her DF might be disappointed if they get gifts other than the one thing they want, which is basically money towards their honeymoon. But on the other hand, there's part of gift-giving that's about the giver, too, not just about fulfilling the recipient's shopping list. If it becomes super-important that THE ONE AWESOME THING be obtained, I think that's something a person or couple needs to take care of themselves, so they can keep control of it, not ask/hope others pitch in, and get mad when they don't (general, not aimed at the OP in particular).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 19, 2014, 12:50:03 PM
To bring it back to the OP, I can see why her DF might be disappointed if they get gifts other than the one thing they want, which is basically money towards their honeymoon. But on the other hand, there's part of gift-giving that's about the giver, too, not just about fulfilling the recipient's shopping list. If it becomes super-important that THE ONE AWESOME THING be obtained, I think that's something a person or couple needs to take care of themselves, so they can keep control of it, not ask/hope others pitch in, and get mad when they don't (general, not aimed at the OP in particular).

I agree with the bolded.  I just personally don't want my gifts to be in vain because the recipient neither wants nor needs what I gave them.  If my goal is to give them something *I* want them to have, as opposed to something they actually want, I shouldn't be surprised or upset that they don't want or need what *I* wanted them to want or need.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 19, 2014, 01:06:14 PM
I think it is rude to be outwardly ungrateful for a gift - one should always be cheerful and thankful. But I also think it is self-centered (I am struggling with the term I mean) to think poorly of someone because they were not blown away by your "thoughtful" gift that is something they don't want or need. Like the towels in Lynn2000 example. It would be silly to be offended that someone else's taste is not the same as yours, and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used.
I didn't see anything in Lynn2000's post that even suggested that the giver of the towels was "offended that someone else's taste is not the same as [theirs], and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used."

I understand that Amy is very particular, and at least in some cases for very good reason.  But did she consider the possibility that the givers of the towels and baby supplies did not even see her registry and just picked out what they thought was a nice gift?  And that they couldn't care less if she exchanges things -- indeed, I would imagine someone buying towels is thinking, "I don't know what color their bathroom is, but these really nice towels come in lots of colors, so I'll get them and they can exchange the for the color they want, or anything else they'd prefer.  It'll be more trouble to wrap than a gift certificate, but it's nicer to receive."  (What is the big deal about having to exchange things?  I never heard anyone complain about having to make a trip to the store when they received a gift certificate.  Well, if you think about it, a gift you are exchanging functions pretty much like a gift certificate.)

If you can't use some products because of allergies or something, and they can't be returned, then regift or donate them.  I cannot imagine that the majority of items were in that category.  If it's just not your preferred brand?  Sorry, that is what I call an ungrateful SS -- the same as if I choose a sweater or novel for you that isn't by your favorite designer or author.  We aren't entitled to receive only gifts that 100% hit the mark.  Any time we think something like, "Why didn't they just get me what I wanted?  Is that really so hard?" the focus is way off the real meaning of a gift and onto our own sense of entitlement.

This kind of discussion seems to rest on the premise that if a registry exists, guests may not be required to purchase only gifts listed (although they really should, if they want to be considerate), but that they are required to consult it, and therefore if they buy anything else are substituting their own preferences for the recipients'.  And that really bothers me.  Gifts are an expression of the givers' good wishes and generosity, not the performance of a duty to fill in someone's shopping list.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: HannahGrace on March 19, 2014, 01:10:09 PM
I think it is rude to be outwardly ungrateful for a gift - one should always be cheerful and thankful. But I also think it is self-centered (I am struggling with the term I mean) to think poorly of someone because they were not blown away by your "thoughtful" gift that is something they don't want or need. Like the towels in Lynn2000 example. It would be silly to be offended that someone else's taste is not the same as yours, and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used.
I didn't see anything in Lynn2000's post that even suggested that the giver of the towels was "offended that someone else's taste is not the same as [theirs], and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used."

I understand that Amy is very particular, and at least in some cases for very good reason.  But did she consider the possibility that the givers of the towels and baby supplies did not even see her registry and just picked out what they thought was a nice gift?  And that they couldn't care less if she exchanges things -- indeed, I would imagine someone buying towels is thinking, "I don't know what color their bathroom is, but these really nice towels come in lots of colors, so I'll get them and they can exchange the for the color they want, or anything else they'd prefer.  It'll be more trouble to wrap than a gift certificate, but it's nicer to receive."  (What is the big deal about having to exchange things?  I never heard anyone complain about having to make a trip to the store when they received a gift certificate.  Well, if you think about it, a gift you are exchanging functions pretty much like a gift certificate.)

If you can't use some products because of allergies or something, and they can't be returned, then regift or donate them.  I cannot imagine that the majority of items were in that category.  If it's just not your preferred brand?  Sorry, that is what I call an ungrateful SS -- the same as if I choose a sweater or novel for you that isn't by your favorite designer or author.  We aren't entitled to receive only gifts that 100% hit the mark.  Any time we think something like, "Why didn't they just get me what I wanted?  Is that really so hard?" the focus is way off the real meaning of a gift and onto our own sense of entitlement.

This kind of discussion seems to rest on the premise that if a registry exists, guests may not be required to purchase only gifts listed (although they really should, if they want to be considerate), but that they are required to consult it, and therefore if they buy anything else are substituting their own preferences for the recipients'.  And that really bothers me.  Gifts are an expression of the givers' good wishes and generosity, not the performance of a duty to fill in someone's shopping list.

Gellchom, I agree re the basket of products - I know people who pride themselves on their ability to put together a basket like that (usually in a baby bath tub) of essential products that they found useful for their own kids.  Those folks do not look at registries when invited to baby showers, because they've got the perfect gift - and I've never been at a shower where a mom to be was anything but over the moon with the practical thoughtfulness involved.  So I'd never assume that such a gift was produced in contravention of information regarding the mom's preferences on the registry.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 19, 2014, 01:10:56 PM
I think it is rude to be outwardly ungrateful for a gift - one should always be cheerful and thankful. But I also think it is self-centered (I am struggling with the term I mean) to think poorly of someone because they were not blown away by your "thoughtful" gift that is something they don't want or need. Like the towels in Lynn2000 example. It would be silly to be offended that someone else's taste is not the same as yours, and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used.
I didn't see anything in Lynn2000's post that even suggested that the giver of the towels was "offended that someone else's taste is not the same as [theirs], and that the brown brand Y towels were returned and not used."
I understand that Amy is very particular, and at least in some cases for very good reason.  But did she consider the possibility that the givers of the towels and baby supplies did not even see her registry and just picked out what they thought was a nice gift?  And that they couldn't care less if she exchanges things -- indeed, I would imagine someone buying towels is thinking, "I don't know what color their bathroom is, but these really nice towels come in lots of colors, so I'll get them and they can exchange the for the color they want, or anything else they'd prefer.  It'll be more trouble to wrap than a gift certificate, but it's nicer to receive."  (What is the big deal about having to exchange things?  I never heard anyone complain about having to make a trip to the store when they received a gift certificate.  Well, if you think about it, a gift you are exchanging functions pretty much like a gift certificate.)

If you can't use some products because of allergies or something, and they can't be returned, then regift or donate them.  I cannot imagine that the majority of items were in that category.  If it's just not your preferred brand?  Sorry, that is what I call an ungrateful SS -- the same as if I choose a sweater or novel for you that isn't by your favorite designer or author.  We aren't entitled to receive only gifts that 100% hit the mark.  Any time we think something like, "Why didn't they just get me what I wanted?  Is that really so hard?" the focus is way off the real meaning of a gift and onto our own sense of entitlement.

This kind of discussion seems to rest on the premise that if a registry exists, guests may not be required to purchase only gifts listed (although they really should, if they want to be considerate), but that they are required to consult it, and therefore if they buy anything else are substituting their own preferences for the recipients'.  And that really bothers me.  Gifts are an expression of the givers' good wishes and generosity, not the performance of a duty to fill in someone's shopping list.

I disagree with you about the purpose of gift giving, but reasonable minds can disagree.  :)  Regarding the bolded, neither did I.  But the rest of your post indicates that you are offended when someone's taste differs from yours - you find them to be SS and ungrateful.  For me, it would be the offended giver who is SS, because the focus of gift giving, for me, is on the recipient and not on the giver.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 19, 2014, 01:15:09 PM

Gellchom, I agree re the basket of products - I know people who pride themselves on their ability to put together a basket like that (usually in a baby bath tub) of essential products that they found useful for their own kids.  Those folks do not look at registries when invited to baby showers, because they've got the perfect gift - and I've never been at a shower where a mom to be was anything but over the moon with the practical thoughtfulness involved.  So I'd never assume that such a gift was produced in contravention of information regarding the mom's preferences on the registry.

True story: I received a basket like this at a baby shower.  When I moved about 4 years later, I threw away the majority of the items unused. My point is, I am positive the giver thought she was giving a thoughful gift.  While I thanked her in person and sent a thank you note, the gift did not get used by me.  Neither of us were rude. I never told her I didn't use her gift.  But, I didn't.  I used the things I wanted to use, which, coincidentally, were the things I registered for.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 19, 2014, 01:21:45 PM
I disagree with you about the purpose of gift giving, but reasonable minds can disagree.  :)  Regarding the bolded, neither did I.  But the rest of your post indicates that you are offended when someone's taste differs from yours - you find them to be SS and ungrateful.  For me, it would be the offended giver who is SS, because the focus of gift giving, for me, is on the recipient and not on the giver.

I never said that I am "offended when someone's taste differs from" mine, and I am not.  I couldn't care less if they exchange what I chose for something that they'd prefer, or if they regift it.  I don't call that "SS and ungrateful" at all.

What I call SS and ungrateful is someone's feeling so entitled to their own pre-selected items that they question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.

If you disagree with my point that the purpose of gift-giving is not merely the performance of a duty to fill in someone's shopping list, then why not just declare that all gifts must always be cash?  That is the only way to be sure they will get exactly what they want without even bothering with a registry.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 19, 2014, 01:37:38 PM
What I call SS and ungrateful is someone's feeling so entitled to their own pre-selected items that they question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.

I don't think most people feel "entitled to their own pre-selected items."  I certainly never have.  But I think some people, like me, are just more practical and find it a waste of time, energy and money for a giver to be more concerned with what they want to give than what the recipient wants to recieve.  No one is rude for giving a gift, whatever that gift is. However, I do think that if a person publicly labels someone as SS and rude and entitled for not appreciating a gift in the way the gift giver wants them to that would be rude. I also find labeling people who have registries as entitled is rude.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: HannahGrace on March 19, 2014, 01:39:17 PM

Gellchom, I agree re the basket of products - I know people who pride themselves on their ability to put together a basket like that (usually in a baby bath tub) of essential products that they found useful for their own kids.  Those folks do not look at registries when invited to baby showers, because they've got the perfect gift - and I've never been at a shower where a mom to be was anything but over the moon with the practical thoughtfulness involved.  So I'd never assume that such a gift was produced in contravention of information regarding the mom's preferences on the registry.

True story: I received a basket like this at a baby shower.  When I moved about 4 years later, I threw away the majority of the items unused. My point is, I am positive the giver thought she was giving a thoughful gift.  While I thanked her in person and sent a thank you note, the gift did not get used by me.  Neither of us were rude. I never told her I didn't use her gift.  But, I didn't.  I used the things I wanted to use, which, coincidentally, were the things I registered for.

Haha, interesting!  I am neither a mom nor a giver of such baskets - I'm the practical auntie who buys all of the non-fun but necessary safety / babyproofing equipment and thermometers and other non-cutesy stuff off of the registry.  I was always jealous of people who made up those fun baskets but now I know they are not as universally loved as I imagined!
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 19, 2014, 01:42:46 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to make the thread all about Amy! :) I just think she's a good example here, considering what the OP has been saying about her DF and the honeymoon registry. I find Amy very thought-provoking about gifts--sometimes I think, "Wow, that seems very SS, she should be glad for whatever people give her," and then other times I think, "You know, she kind of has a point, that was a pretty odd gift choice."

I think it can be very, very easy to get caught up in wanting exactly what you want and nothing else, and finding ways to rationalize that. But I also think it's not healthy to focus so much on the endpoint, and one can easily become rude in trying to control the journey to it (e.g., what other people spend their money on).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 19, 2014, 10:30:03 PM
What I call SS and ungrateful is someone's feeling so entitled to their own pre-selected items that they question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.

I don't think most people feel "entitled to their own pre-selected items."  I certainly never have.  But I think some people, like me, are just more practical and find it a waste of time, energy and money for a giver to be more concerned with what they want to give than what the recipient wants to recieve.  No one is rude for giving a gift, whatever that gift is. However, I do think that if a person publicly labels someone as SS and rude and entitled for not appreciating a gift in the way the gift giver wants them to that would be rude. I also find labeling people who have registries as entitled is rude.
Now, be fair.  I never said any of that, and I most certainly did not say that people who have registries are "entitled."  What I did say I find SS, ungrateful, and entitled -- you quoted it, in fact -- is to question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: purple on March 19, 2014, 11:02:42 PM
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.

The bolded is something I cannot stand.
You throw the party / wedding that _you_ (general) can afford and you (general) take the honeymoon that _you_ (general) can afford.

I don't want to see a cash bar and a honeymoon registry because you (general) have decided that you (general) want to have a party or go on a holiday that you need me to subsidise.

I'm quite generous when it comes to wedding gifts.  I don't mind parting with a bit of cash for a HC, but once they start telling me to give them this or that, it's the quickest way to make me tighten my purse strings.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 19, 2014, 11:09:19 PM
Quote
if their goal was to get Amy something she would like and use. If she hadn't specified any brands/products, that would be one thing, but she had already expressed her preferences, so to go with something directly opposed to them seems a little odd to me. Also you kind of have to know Amy, and how she does things, and you would think anyone who came to her baby shower would, but obviously that's not always true.

Of course, Amy has no idea whether that gift giver even looked at the list.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 20, 2014, 03:23:51 AM

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"


That's not a registry... that's a shopping list  ;D

But then I really dislike the idea of registries (or 'wedding lists' as we call them) anyway so I may not be the most unbiased. I can just about get behind them as a suggestion, ie, 'we could use some new glasses' or whatever, but I think when it gets into this level of detail, it rolls over into expecting people to fund your household choices, and 99% of the time it's not like these things are needed for setting up home, like the 'olden days'. They're *wants*, not needs, so I find specifying to that level a bit cheeky.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gollymolly2 on March 20, 2014, 03:30:50 AM
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.

The bolded is something I cannot stand.
You throw the party / wedding that _you_ (general) can afford and you (general) take the honeymoon that _you_ (general) can afford.

I don't want to see a cash bar and a honeymoon registry because you (general) have decided that you (general) want to have a party or go on a holiday that you need me to subsidise.

I'm quite generous when it comes to wedding gifts.  I don't mind parting with a bit of cash for a HC, but once they start telling me to give them this or that, it's the quickest way to make me tighten my purse strings.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. If a couple registers for china and linens and  a bunch of appliances they couldn't otherwise afford on their own, that's okay? But if they prefer the experience of traveling together to a toaster, thats not ok?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: menley on March 20, 2014, 04:48:54 AM
That's not a registry... that's a shopping list  ;D

But then I really dislike the idea of registries (or 'wedding lists' as we call them) anyway so I may not be the most unbiased. I can just about get behind them as a suggestion, ie, 'we could use some new glasses' or whatever, but I think when it gets into this level of detail, it rolls over into expecting people to fund your household choices, and 99% of the time it's not like these things are needed for setting up home, like the 'olden days'. They're *wants*, not needs, so I find specifying to that level a bit cheeky.

But any wedding gift is a "want" and not a need, isn't it?

I guess I just don't really understand anti-registry people. I get that sometimes people go overboard with them. But if someone has a registry, I always buy them either 1) an item I like off of the registry or 2) a gift card to the place where they have registered. My thinking is this: I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do. And to me, that seems pretty entitled. We've seen lots of threads on here about frustration with friends and relatives who think they know better than the poster does, and everyone seems to agree that is annoying/frustrating/rude. So how is it different when it comes to the registry?



Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 20, 2014, 06:02:06 AM
That's not a registry... that's a shopping list  ;D

But then I really dislike the idea of registries (or 'wedding lists' as we call them) anyway so I may not be the most unbiased. I can just about get behind them as a suggestion, ie, 'we could use some new glasses' or whatever, but I think when it gets into this level of detail, it rolls over into expecting people to fund your household choices, and 99% of the time it's not like these things are needed for setting up home, like the 'olden days'. They're *wants*, not needs, so I find specifying to that level a bit cheeky.

But any wedding gift is a "want" and not a need, isn't it?

I guess I just don't really understand anti-registry people. I get that sometimes people go overboard with them. But if someone has a registry, I always buy them either 1) an item I like off of the registry or 2) a gift card to the place where they have registered. My thinking is this: I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do. And to me, that seems pretty entitled. We've seen lots of threads on here about frustration with friends and relatives who think they know better than the poster does, and everyone seems to agree that is annoying/frustrating/rude. So how is it different when it comes to the registry?

Because I think telling people what to buy you is rude and presumptuous. I think broad suggestions are fine *if* someone specifically says "What would you like?" but when it comes down to 'Our wedding list is here and we want this blue and red checked towel from Marks & Spencer and it costs £30 and this mug and this saucer and and and' - I don't know.  For one thing, yes, it is a want and not a need, so it comes over as greedy. For another, if I'm (general) going to get you a present, then don't be cheeky about it. If a gift isn't to your liking then fine, do what you want to dispose of it, but don't dictate what people can buy you in the first place. Whatever happened to not expecting a gift and being gracious about what you *do* get?

It just seems presumptuous and I really dislike it, although it's probably a personal quirk.

Probably a subject for a spin off though, so as not to derail.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 07:45:19 AM


I guess I just don't really understand anti-registry people. I get that sometimes people go overboard with them. But if someone has a registry, I always buy them either 1) an item I like off of the registry or 2) a gift card to the place where they have registered. My thinking is this: I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do. And to me, that seems pretty entitled. We've seen lots of threads on here about frustration with friends and relatives who think they know better than the poster does, and everyone seems to agree that is annoying/frustrating/rude. So how is it different when it comes to the registry?

I really can't get behind this.

This is where my frustration with the registry lies--it takes -me- right out of the equation. When I feel pressured to choose gifts from the registry, I feel that I've simply been turned into a Shopping List Fulfillment Agent.

I *am* supposed to "know better" than the gift recipient when the question is, "what would I like to give her?" Of course I want to give something the recipient will like, and suggestions are welcome.

But if I don't like any of those suggestions, then I'm not "entitled" or presumptuous to give them something that came my -my- brain instead of there.

Honestly, the registry sucks all the fun out of it. I just went shopping for a bridal-shower present, and I ended up getting things from the registry list--I didn't feel I knew enough to get something on my own and I got lazy. And it really wasn't all that fun for me.

Gift giving is supposed to be an experience that brings the giver and the receiver closer. The way that happens is when the giver spends some time and energy choosing a present; that mental process is what creates the closeness. And for the recipient, even if the present turns out to be a miss, when they can see the thoughtfulness that went into the present, that generally makes them feel closer.

Buying something from a registry list doesn't do that. At Christmas, my cousin who bought two presents off my Elfster list got me exactly what I wanted. Which is nice, and I appreciate it. But if she'd taken my first suggestion (long-sleeve dress T-shirts) and picked out a color she thought would work, I'd probably have felt closer to her.

People like Amy, who focus so heavily on how useful the gift is to them, miss out on the true purpose of gifts.
   I would go so far as to say that people like Amy (and like me, w/this bridal shower) who just get something from the registry also miss out on the true purpose of gifts.
   I'm trying really hard to find a way to turn these registry items into a gift that is truly "from me."


I also get frustrated with registries that are too detailed; they feel way too controlling. I'm OK w/ registries that say, "here's the china pattern I've chosen" and "here's the towel color that will match our new bathroom." But some of the low-ticket items, I think are too controlling. Do I have to get you the OXO brand of nylon-tipped locking tongs? Can't I just get the Cuisinart ones?

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: wolfie on March 20, 2014, 08:36:59 AM

Gift giving is supposed to be an experience that brings the giver and the receiver closer. The way that happens is when the giver spends some time and energy choosing a present; that mental process is what creates the closeness. And for the recipient, even if the present turns out to be a miss, when they can see the thoughtfulness that went into the present, that generally makes them feel closer.


Or it can take them one step further apart. My mom asked me for a list of things I wanted for christmas last year. I gave her a very general list - some specifics (like a cd I wanted) and some general (just more sweaters). Everything she gave me just about 1 - 2 degrees off of what I asked for.  Instead of sweaters she got me 3/4 shirts. Which are nice. But I need more sweaters since I wear them for about 5 - 6months of the year and 3/4 shirts are useful for about a month in the spring and a month in the fall. A box of chocolates - very nice. But i had been looking forward to a very particular flavor and these were just the regular ones.  The gifts were nice and well appreciated but I had to wonder why she bothered to ask if she wasn't going to take my suggestions seriously.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 08:45:39 AM
What I call SS and ungrateful is someone's feeling so entitled to their own pre-selected items that they question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.

I don't think most people feel "entitled to their own pre-selected items."  I certainly never have.  But I think some people, like me, are just more practical and find it a waste of time, energy and money for a giver to be more concerned with what they want to give than what the recipient wants to recieve.  No one is rude for giving a gift, whatever that gift is. However, I do think that if a person publicly labels someone as SS and rude and entitled for not appreciating a gift in the way the gift giver wants them to that would be rude. I also find labeling people who have registries as entitled is rude.
Now, be fair.  I never said any of that, and I most certainly did not say that people who have registries are "entitled."  What I did say I find SS, ungrateful, and entitled -- you quoted it, in fact -- is to question the motives and generosity of anyone who gives them anything else.

My post responded to yours, but my statements were not directed to you specifically.  If youdon't identify with the behavior I find rude, then you don't!
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 08:48:57 AM

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"


That's not a registry... that's a shopping list  ;D

But then I really dislike the idea of registries (or 'wedding lists' as we call them) anyway so I may not be the most unbiased. I can just about get behind them as a suggestion, ie, 'we could use some new glasses' or whatever, but I think when it gets into this level of detail, it rolls over into expecting people to fund your household choices, and 99% of the time it's not like these things are needed for setting up home, like the 'olden days'. They're *wants*, not needs, so I find specifying to that level a bit cheeky.

In my experience, no HC needs anyone to fund anything.  Most if not all of the couples I have seen get married are quite stable financially.  For me it more that givers are "wasting" their time, money and energy on gifts that are not likely to be used by the HC. I don't see how anyone benefits there. 
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 08:49:58 AM
That's not a registry... that's a shopping list  ;D

But then I really dislike the idea of registries (or 'wedding lists' as we call them) anyway so I may not be the most unbiased. I can just about get behind them as a suggestion, ie, 'we could use some new glasses' or whatever, but I think when it gets into this level of detail, it rolls over into expecting people to fund your household choices, and 99% of the time it's not like these things are needed for setting up home, like the 'olden days'. They're *wants*, not needs, so I find specifying to that level a bit cheeky.

But any wedding gift is a "want" and not a need, isn't it?

I guess I just don't really understand anti-registry people. I get that sometimes people go overboard with them. But if someone has a registry, I always buy them either 1) an item I like off of the registry or 2) a gift card to the place where they have registered. My thinking is this: I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do. And to me, that seems pretty entitled. We've seen lots of threads on here about frustration with friends and relatives who think they know better than the poster does, and everyone seems to agree that is annoying/frustrating/rude. So how is it different when it comes to the registry?
Exactly this.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 20, 2014, 11:05:04 AM
Don't get me wrong, although I love wish lists in general for keeping track of stuff I want, I do think they can become controlling when you're saying that THIS THING HERE and only that thing will do--like TootsNYC says, does it seriously have to be THIS brand/model of tongs, and not any other? Actually what I mean is, I think it's fine to want only that brand and model of tongs, for any reason at all--because you've researched them and think they will best serve your needs, because you like the color, because you own stock in the company, whatever. But if you need that level of control and can't handle well-meaning deviations, maybe you should just buy the tongs yourself, and not put anything about them on a list. And that's totally fine.

To get back to the honeymoon registry in the OP, the way I see it, it's basically asking the guests for one thing only--money. I don't want to exaggerate this, but there seem to be hints that the OP's DF really wants only that, and might be disappointed with anything else. And that seems like a very stressful situation to put oneself in, I think. There are ways to reframe that mentally, which is a personal choice; but in terms of etiquette, I think anything that pushes guests in only one direction should be avoided. So, as others have said, the honeymoon registry should be mentioned only when people actively ask, and it would be better to phrase it as, "Well, there's this; or anything else you think would be cool/useful/etc.." I like the wording of "we're saving up for X" which to me sounds like it's something you're planning to pay for totally on your own if necessary, but FYI, the saving up is happening if anyone wants to contribute to that.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Tea Drinker on March 20, 2014, 11:27:42 AM
To me, registries make sense when it matters that things match: the classic of "I'll buy some salad plates, and maybe Aunt Petunia will get the tea cups..." and when it's done the people have salad plates and tea cups and so on that go together, and in a style they like. I wouldn't look at your registry and think "those tea cups are too small, I'll get the kind I like instead": I'll either get the tea cups you asked for, or something unrelated that makes sense to me as a gift. Also, it's unlikely, if I'm in a mood to buy someone housewares, that our tastes mismatch so badly that I can't deal with their style of teacup, preferred colors of towels, or the like. If the towels you've asked for are too expensive, I'm not going to be thinking that you're unreasonably profligate with other people's money: I'm going to figure that you probably have usable towels, but thought someone might want to indulge you in something fancier. If I'm not that someone, so be it. If my budget here is $25 and the least expensive thing on the registry that I would even consider buying is more than that, I'm going to write a check for $25 and tuck it into a card.

If I know that your favorite color is sunflower yellow and you're trying to decorate your house mostly in that, I'm not going to insist on giving you violet towels because that's what I'd prefer. I'm not going to be living with those sheets and towels. If I get something from a different category, I'm saying "you might find a whistling teakettle useful" rather than "my taste in towel colors is enough better than yours that it should govern in your home."

The non-obvious disadvantage of needing to exchange something is that there's usually a time limit: these days, a gift card is good for a year or more, but those wrong-color towels may have to be exchanged within 30 days, meaning 22 days after you return from your honeymoon, and six different exchanges may need to be trips to six different stores.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 20, 2014, 12:26:39 PM
I guess I just don't really understand anti-registry people. I get that sometimes people go overboard with them. But if someone has a registry, I always buy them either 1) an item I like off of the registry or 2) a gift card to the place where they have registered. My thinking is this: I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do. And to me, that seems pretty entitled. We've seen lots of threads on here about frustration with friends and relatives who think they know better than the poster does, and everyone seems to agree that is annoying/frustrating/rude. So how is it different when it comes to the registry?
I didn't want to post anymore in this string, because we are talking past each other.   But Menley's specific question about registries deserves an answer, so I'll try. 

The difference is based upon what, in my opinion, is a mistaken premise in your reasoning, in this part:
Quote
I want to get the recipient something they want. They've given me a list of what they want - so for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do.
What I see as an incorrect premise is the assumption is "what they put on the registry" = "what they want."

Yes, of course, presumably everything they put on the registry is something they want.  But the converse -- that everything they want is on the registry -- is simply not true.  They may well want as much as or even much more than the registry items things that can't be registered (e.g. handmade items, family heirlooms), things that aren't sold at those two or three stores (e.g. antiques, artwork, one of a kind items, specialty items), or fancy stuff (e.g. an amazing Waterford bowl or Tiffany pitcher).  So I disagree that "for me to buy something that's not on the registry is to imply that I know what they want better than they do."  Yes, true, if they register a china pattern, and you buy them a place setting in a different pattern.  But not if you simply buy them a gift elsewhere.

Here are some of our favorite wedding gifts:

- a silver plate platter my great aunt and uncle received as a wedding gift themselves
- theater tickets to a great show in our honeymoon destination
- a lovingly hand-embroidered tablecloth
- a Steuben centerpiece bowl
- a fancy dessert set that wasn't sold where we registered
- a set of funky and gorgeous cobalt blue glass canisters
- a really good set of handmade pottery bowls
- a few things we didn't think we would need but very quickly wondered how we would've managed without

The people who gave us those gifts could easily have chosen something off our registry instead.  We were so glad that they didn't!  It's almost 32 years later, and I still think of the givers every time  I use the gifts they selected.  (I used the dessert set just last night -- thank you, Aunt Charlotte!)  Sure, there were a few things people selected that we didn't especially like.  So what? 

See my point?  There are evidently some couples who do only really want gifts that are sold at Macy's, Bloodbath and Beyond, Target, and a few other popular choices.  But I suspect that there are many more who do not.  They want the gifts to reflect the giver, and to remind them of the giver for the years to come, not just their own choices today.  So when you get them something that you think will please them someplace else, you are getting them what they want.

Now, back in the year zero when I got married, people only registered things that came in patterns and perhaps a very few -- like, 4 or 5 -- other items. You could put preferences and colors on the registry, too: "Likes glass and silver and contemporary style.  Bathroom is blue; kitchen is yellow."  The first time I saw a registry list that went on for pages and pages, I laughed so hard I had to sit down on the floor in the store.  Now of course it is common.  But that doesn't necessarily reflect the couple's wishes -- I often suspect it reflects the stores' wishes.  Obviously, they want all your gifts to come from their store!

I think that my daughter is planning on doing it the old way -- primarily patterns.  She has a few reasons for that, including that she lives overseas, but I think she also wants to let people choose for her.  I think she is wise.  That way her gifts will always remind her of the givers. 

I think Toots put it very well with this:
Quote
When I feel pressured to choose gifts from the registry, I feel that I've simply been turned into a Shopping List Fulfillment Agent.
Nothing wrong with having a registry.  Something very wrong with thinking that you are entitled to choose your own gifts, that people are "supposed to" choose gifts only from that list if they want to give you what you "want," and assuming that they have bad motives if they don't.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Teenyweeny on March 20, 2014, 12:37:27 PM

To my mind there's a difference between getting something not on the list at all (like theatre tickets, or a painting, or a china duck), and getting them the thing they registered for, but different.

If I register for blue towels, I still might love a china duck. But it would be weird to buy me pink towels.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 12:43:41 PM
Nothing wrong with having a registry.  Something very wrong with thinking that you are entitled to choose your own gifts, that people are "supposed to" choose gifts only from that list if they want to give you what you "want," and assuming that they have bad motives if they don't.

I still think some of us are talking past each other.  A person can give whatever they want to give, but that person would be silly to be upset if what *they* chose is not something the recipient actually wants or uses.  I don't think anyone has said anything about "bad motives."  It's more the idea that when your motivation is to give something *you want to give* as opposed to something *the recipient wants to get* you may be disappointed that the recipient says "thanks" and then returns or never uses your gift. If you are okay with that, great!  If you instead say that the recipient is SS and entitled, that is the problem in my view.  (All you's general).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 20, 2014, 01:13:30 PM
Nothing wrong with having a registry.  Something very wrong with thinking that you are entitled to choose your own gifts, that people are "supposed to" choose gifts only from that list if they want to give you what you "want," and assuming that they have bad motives if they don't.

I still think some of us are talking past each other.  A person can give whatever they want to give, but that person would be silly to be upset if what *they* chose is not something the recipient actually wants or uses.  I don't think anyone has said anything about "bad motives."  It's more the idea that when your motivation is to give something *you want to give* as opposed to something *the recipient wants to get* you may be disappointed that the recipient says "thanks" and then returns or never uses your gift. If you are okay with that, great!  If you instead say that the recipient is SS and entitled, that is the problem in my view.  (All you's general).

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?

I think this might be why I find it a bit grabby, I don't know. If I'm close enough to be going to someone's wedding, I know them and I know what they like (and what they don't like).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 01:23:18 PM
Nothing wrong with having a registry.  Something very wrong with thinking that you are entitled to choose your own gifts, that people are "supposed to" choose gifts only from that list if they want to give you what you "want," and assuming that they have bad motives if they don't.

I still think some of us are talking past each other.  A person can give whatever they want to give, but that person would be silly to be upset if what *they* chose is not something the recipient actually wants or uses.  I don't think anyone has said anything about "bad motives."  It's more the idea that when your motivation is to give something *you want to give* as opposed to something *the recipient wants to get* you may be disappointed that the recipient says "thanks" and then returns or never uses your gift. If you are okay with that, great!  If you instead say that the recipient is SS and entitled, that is the problem in my view.  (All you's general).

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?

I think this might be why I find it a bit grabby, I don't know. If I'm close enough to be going to someone's wedding, I know them and I know what they like (and what they don't like).

Maybe I am coming at this from a different perspective.  For me, it wouldn't be so much, "Sally didn't get me what I want," as it would be, "What should I do with this gift Sally gave me that I can't/won't use?"  It's not "grabby" or entitled - the focus isn't "I didn't get what I wanted" but rather "I can't use what I was given - how awkward."
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Teenyweeny on March 20, 2014, 01:23:33 PM
Nothing wrong with having a registry.  Something very wrong with thinking that you are entitled to choose your own gifts, that people are "supposed to" choose gifts only from that list if they want to give you what you "want," and assuming that they have bad motives if they don't.

I still think some of us are talking past each other.  A person can give whatever they want to give, but that person would be silly to be upset if what *they* chose is not something the recipient actually wants or uses.  I don't think anyone has said anything about "bad motives."  It's more the idea that when your motivation is to give something *you want to give* as opposed to something *the recipient wants to get* you may be disappointed that the recipient says "thanks" and then returns or never uses your gift. If you are okay with that, great!  If you instead say that the recipient is SS and entitled, that is the problem in my view.  (All you's general).

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?

I think this might be why I find it a bit grabby, I don't know. If I'm close enough to be going to someone's wedding, I know them and I know what they like (and what they don't like).

Well, some people are just bad at presents. Or, you could be like me and have an absolutely HUGE family. I love all of my cousins to bits, but I haven't actually been to any of their houses, because family gatherings still happen either in public places or at our parents' or gran's houses. So, I have no idea about their decorating style etc.



Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 01:39:39 PM

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?


Oh, I totally don't agree with that!

I love my nephew dearly, I expect to have a life-long relationship with him. But I'd never met his fiancé, and since he lives half a country away, how would I know what color their first bathroom will be, or whether they like European florals on their china or modern graphics?

Ditto the shower I'm going to this weekend. I know many things about them, but I would -never- have guessed that she would register for very sleek, modern square plates in apple and plum! That was actually one of the fun things about the registry.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 20, 2014, 01:46:27 PM

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?


Oh, I totally don't agree with that!

I love my nephew dearly, I expect to have a life-long relationship with him. But I'd never met his fiancé, and since he lives half a country away, how would I know what color their first bathroom will be, or whether they like European florals on their china or modern graphics?

Ditto the shower I'm going to this weekend. I know many things about them, but I would -never- have guessed that she would register for very sleek, modern square plates in apple and plum! That was actually one of the fun things about the registry.

True. I can only speak for my own experience though, and I personally would not be going to the wedding of someone I wasn't close enough to to know their tastes.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 01:54:50 PM

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?


Oh, I totally don't agree with that!

I love my nephew dearly, I expect to have a life-long relationship with him. But I'd never met his fiancé, and since he lives half a country away, how would I know what color their first bathroom will be, or whether they like European florals on their china or modern graphics?

Ditto the shower I'm going to this weekend. I know many things about them, but I would -never- have guessed that she would register for very sleek, modern square plates in apple and plum! That was actually one of the fun things about the registry.

True. I can only speak for my own experience though, and I personally would not be going to the wedding of someone I wasn't close enough to to know their tastes.

This confuses me because their tastes would be reflected in......their registry!!!! Why engage in guesswork when you don't have to? Why get something that is "close but not quite" instead of "it's exactly what we wanted!!!"  I know a lot of things about my friends and family, including that none of them *need* anything and none of them are gimme pigs.  I also know that they have particular tastes, and that I would want to get them what they want, not what I think they should want.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 20, 2014, 02:00:39 PM

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?


Oh, I totally don't agree with that!

I love my nephew dearly, I expect to have a life-long relationship with him. But I'd never met his fiancé, and since he lives half a country away, how would I know what color their first bathroom will be, or whether they like European florals on their china or modern graphics?

Ditto the shower I'm going to this weekend. I know many things about them, but I would -never- have guessed that she would register for very sleek, modern square plates in apple and plum! That was actually one of the fun things about the registry.

True. I can only speak for my own experience though, and I personally would not be going to the wedding of someone I wasn't close enough to to know their tastes.

This confuses me because their tastes would be reflected in......their registry!!!! Why engage in guesswork when you don't have to? Why get something that is "close but not quite" instead of "it's exactly what we wanted!!!"  I know a lot of things about my friends and family, including that none of them *need* anything and none of them are gimme pigs.  I also know that they have particular tastes, and that I would want to get them what they want, not what I think they should want.

But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 20, 2014, 02:10:58 PM
I personally would not be going to the wedding of someone I wasn't close enough to to know their tastes.
Maybe not yet!  But if you're like most of us, when you reach the age that most of the weddings you are going to are not those of your peers, but of your friends' children or relatives in a younger generation, you won't usually know.  With very few exceptions, I have no idea what my friends' children's and grandchildren's needs and favorite colors or styles are, much less their fiances'.  The next wedding I am attending is of a childhood friend of my son's.  I've known him for many years -- but I've barely met his fiancee and don't know what she prefers.  As Toots suggests, that's when I am much more likely to choose a gift from their registry and certainly to consult it to get an idea of their needs and tastes.
To my mind there's a difference between getting something not on the list at all (like theatre tickets, or a painting, or a china duck), and getting them the thing they registered for, but different.

If I register for blue towels, I still might love a china duck. But it would be weird to buy me pink towels.
I mostly agree with this -- certainly about the pink towels when I know you need blue, let alone a place setting of a different pattern of china or flatware.
But if you registered a $25 glass pitcher at Target, I bet you'd still like to receive a $300 one from Tiffany.
For most things, you can always use more than one anyway.  Even when it seems like you have more than enough, most people's entertaining and cooking needs grow as they advance in generations, and things do break and wear out over the years, so it's nice to have more than just enough for what you need your first year of marriage.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 02:11:10 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 02:13:45 PM

Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?


Oh, I totally don't agree with that!

I love my nephew dearly, I expect to have a life-long relationship with him. But I'd never met his fiancé, and since he lives half a country away, how would I know what color their first bathroom will be, or whether they like European florals on their china or modern graphics?

Ditto the shower I'm going to this weekend. I know many things about them, but I would -never- have guessed that she would register for very sleek, modern square plates in apple and plum! That was actually one of the fun things about the registry.

True. I can only speak for my own experience though, and I personally would not be going to the wedding of someone I wasn't close enough to to know their tastes.

I hope all the people you care about live really close to you, then. My favorite-estest cousin in the entire world lives in Mpls; I'm in NYC. How would I know what he likes?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 02:15:46 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 20, 2014, 02:23:58 PM
Well, my immediate thought about that is that if a guest isn't close enough to the HC to know their tastes and what they want/like, why are they invited to the wedding in the first place?

I do think it varies by social circle. If one of my cousins invited me to their wedding, it would be difficult for me to pick out a good gift for them with no help (like a registry), because I simply don't know them well enough. But we have this genetic, societal relationship that expects me to attend the wedding if at all possible; and even if I wasn't able to attend, I'd send a gift anyway. There would be negative familial consequences to me not attending. And probably to them not inviting me!

There could also be situations with a couple, Bob and Betty, where the person getting married is connected to Betty, but in their relationship Bob is the one who picks out gifts for people, with Betty being no help at all. Could be Bob's never even met the person, but it's Betty's cousin or old college roommate or whatever, so both Bob and Betty are attending the wedding, and it's Bob's task to pick out the gift.

Also, even with my personal friends that I know better, I don't always know them in a "wedding gift way." Like, I could pick out some good novels or DVDs for my friend, but I have no idea what sort of towels or kitchen appliances she would like, let alone what her fiance would be interested in. Or maybe I could rule out a few extremes, which still leaves me with half a dozen possible choices.

But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

Well, personally I think it's fun to look at a registry, and pick out something the person wants that also coincides with what *I* like, or that makes a connection between us. For example, one person I had worked at a lab with and we used scalpels a lot, so I bought the knife set she'd registered for, and made a comment in the card about the scalpels. I dislike the color brown, think it's boring, so if someone registers for brown towels I'm going to skip over that and keep looking, until I see that they've also registered for a cotton candy maker. SCORE! I love cotton candy. So I will buy that for them, and for a brief instant pretend I am buying it for myself. But it's on their registry, so that means they want it (allegedly).

Sometimes Amy allows herself to deviate from a registry in a limited way. For one wedding where we went in on the gift together, we bought the HC the muffin/cupcake pans they'd registered for, and then threw in a container of fun cupcake papers and a cupcake recipe book. The extra things were small enough that they could easily get rid of them (probably) if they wanted, and it made a "theme" package that we had fun putting together. And the main part of the gift was something they'd registered for.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 02:29:31 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.

I agree with the bolded absolutely!  My comments are always about the givers being offended that the recipients might not want or use what they have given them and are therefore entitled SS.  If the givers are perfectly fine that the recipients gave away their gift, great!

And yes, I remember who gave me the check with "for a zipline adventure" in the memo line.  Yes, I remember who gave me a gift certificate to use toward concert tickets. 
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 20, 2014, 02:32:40 PM
For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.
Turtledove, I don 't get it -- are you saying that you and your friends don't want gifts other than those "certain specific things" that you pick out yourselves, to the point of considering them a "burden"?  (Or, I guess "experience gifts" -- or do those also have to be experiences that you chose yourselves?)  I'm not saying that you all wouldn't appreciate the thought and generosity behind other gifts or that you would think poorly of the givers -- I know you are not saying that, just like I am not saying that it is rude or offensive not to like or keep a gift that misses the mark.  But do you really consider gifts you don't select yourself a "burden"?  If so, do you feel that everyone should just give each other cash?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 02:35:54 PM
For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.
Turtledove, I don 't get it -- are you saying that you and your friends don't want gifts other than those "certain specific things" that you pick out yourselves, to the point of considering them a "burden"?  (Or, I guess "experience gifts" -- or do those also have to be experiences that you chose yourselves?)  I'm not saying that you all wouldn't appreciate the thought and generosity behind other gifts or that you would think poorly of the givers -- I know you are not saying that, just like I am not saying that it is rude or offensive not to like or keep a gift that misses the mark.  But do you really consider gifts you don't select yourself a "burden"?  If so, do you feel that everyone should just give each other cash?

If I like what you gave me that you picked out, no burden.  If I don't, then yes, I would feel bad because you would have wasted your time, money and energy on something I wouldn't use and instead have to find a way to store or dispose of.  If you would have asked me what I wanted, and gotten me that, we would both have won, in my opinion.

For babies, I give from the registry.  For weddings, I tend to give cash earmarked for experience gifts.  Because that is what my friends would want. 

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 20, 2014, 02:44:49 PM
For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.
Turtledove, I don 't get it -- are you saying that you and your friends don't want gifts other than those "certain specific things" that you pick out yourselves, to the point of considering them a "burden"?  (Or, I guess "experience gifts" -- or do those also have to be experiences that you chose yourselves?)  I'm not saying that you all wouldn't appreciate the thought and generosity behind other gifts or that you would think poorly of the givers -- I know you are not saying that, just like I am not saying that it is rude or offensive not to like or keep a gift that misses the mark.  But do you really consider gifts you don't select yourself a "burden"?  If so, do you feel that everyone should just give each other cash?

If I like what you gave me that you picked out, no burden.  If I don't, then yes, I would feel bad because you would have wasted your time, money and energy on something I wouldn't use and instead have to find a way to store or dispose of.  If you would have asked me what I wanted, and gotten me that, we would both have won, in my opinion.

For babies, I give from the registry.  For weddings, I tend to give cash earmarked for experience gifts.  Because that is what my friends would want.
Okay, good!  Glad to hear it. 
I was kind of confused by your statement that
Quote
My comments are always about the givers being offended that the recipients might not want or use what they have given them and are therefore entitled SS.  If the givers are perfectly fine that the recipients gave away their gift, great!
Because I honestly don't see where in any of the posts in this string anyone said that they would be "offended that the recipients might not want or use what they have given them and are therefore entitled SS."  People said that they didn't want to be accused of being selfish or bossy if they chose gifts that the recipients didn't ask for, but not that the recipients are wrong in any way if they didn't want or use the items; indeed, I think that every one of the posters would agree that they are "perfectly fine [if] the recipients gave away their gift."  I think that it was kind of a leap to assume offense.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 02:51:18 PM
People said that they didn't want to be accused of being selfish or bossy if they chose gifts that the recipients didn't ask for, but not that the recipients are wrong in any way if they didn't want or use the items; indeed, I think that every one of the posters would agree that they are "perfectly fine [if] the recipients gave away their gift." 

Hah!  So we were talking past each other because I didn't see anyone ever say the bolded either (accusing people who give off-registry of being selfish or bossy)! The only problem I had was with people who labeled people who didn't want their "rogue" gifts as entitled SS.

It seems we agree - not rude to give a "rogue" off-registry gift; not rude to not want a "rogue" off-registry gift.  :)
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: VorFemme on March 20, 2014, 03:56:23 PM
My sister got married for the first time 34 years ago...my parents gave her "our" old bed.  My stand-by plane was full - I didn't get to go (not enough vacation for a drive there & back - not enough money for a full price ticket at 1980s prices).

I got a large box & filled it - new pillows (they gave her OUR old bed and the pillows we'd been sleeping on for YEARS - very flat pillows), a bath mat, two frames with photos that were already matted, towels, hot pads & placemats for her kitchen, and a lot of other small things...but things that you need when setting up house together after living in a college dorm and things that they would use or see every day.

She had some of the decorative odds & ends after she got rid of the first husband....
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 04:19:03 PM

If I like what you gave me that you picked out, no burden.  If I don't, then yes, I would feel bad because you would have wasted your time, money and energy on something I wouldn't use and instead have to find a way to store or dispose of.  If you would have asked me what I wanted, and gotten me that, we would both have won, in my opinion.


I think you are reaching beyond yourself here. It's not your responsibility (and not, actually, your right) to worry about whether the gift giver has wasted their money.

That was their prerogative. They are grownups, and if it was important to them to NOT waste their money, they would have gone to your registry and purchased something you suggested.

If they didn't, it's because they didn't -want- to. And for you to take on too big a burden of feeling bad, or for you to think they've done the wrong thing, is for -you- to think you know better than them what their values are.

What your guests choose to give you is not actually your responsibility. Not before, and not after.
You just need to appreciate the effort they went to in giving you the gift.

Believe me, I get it about the "burden" part--I too have often had too-large guilt pangs about gifts that turned out to not be successful.

So I've come to this point of view from a place very similar to what you are describing.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 04:20:32 PM
People said that they didn't want to be accused of being selfish or bossy if they chose gifts that the recipients didn't ask for, but not that the recipients are wrong in any way if they didn't want or use the items; indeed, I think that every one of the posters would agree that they are "perfectly fine [if] the recipients gave away their gift." 

Hah!  So we were talking past each other because I didn't see anyone ever say the bolded either (accusing people who give off-registry of being selfish or bossy)! The only problem I had was with people who labeled people who didn't want their "rogue" gifts as entitled SS.

It seems we agree - not rude to give a "rogue" off-registry gift; not rude to not want a "rogue" off-registry gift.  :)

Well, "thinking you know better than them" (a phrase used upstream by someone, I'm too lazy to worry about who, bcs it doesn't matter to me) is another phrase for "bossy."
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 20, 2014, 04:31:05 PM
I really don't care what anyone wants to give anyone else, so long as they do not label a recipient who is not thrilled with an un-asked for gift as entitled SS.  As I have always said, if a giver is perfectly happy that the recipient gave the gift away and will never use it, great! :)
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 20, 2014, 04:39:12 PM
well, I think they can by mildly, personally disappointed.  ;)

But to be upset, or to think less of the recipient, I agree that's not fair or cool or whatever.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: purple on March 20, 2014, 09:29:38 PM
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.

The bolded is something I cannot stand.
You throw the party / wedding that _you_ (general) can afford and you (general) take the honeymoon that _you_ (general) can afford.

I don't want to see a cash bar and a honeymoon registry because you (general) have decided that you (general) want to have a party or go on a holiday that you need me to subsidise.

I'm quite generous when it comes to wedding gifts.  I don't mind parting with a bit of cash for a HC, but once they start telling me to give them this or that, it's the quickest way to make me tighten my purse strings.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. If a couple registers for china and linens and  a bunch of appliances they couldn't otherwise afford on their own, that's okay? But if they prefer the experience of traveling together to a toaster, thats not ok?

No, that's not ok either, from my personal viewpoint.

I don't like gift registries of any kind.  I cannot get on board with them.  I think they are rude.

When I'm faced with one I tend to buy something from there but I do think the person a bit rude.

I know there are pro-registry people and anti-registry people out there and I can happily agree to disagree about the whole issue.  I just happen to be one of the people in the anti-registry camp.

No hard feelings to anybody in the other camp  :)

ETA: I removed a bit, because it's not probably true of my feelings.  Also to add that my standard wedding gift these days (for those who do not have registries) is cash and so far I've had no complaints  :).
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 20, 2014, 11:32:04 PM
Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: kareng57 on March 20, 2014, 11:40:20 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.


I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Miss Understood on March 20, 2014, 11:40:33 PM

If I like what you gave me that you picked out, no burden.  If I don't, then yes, I would feel bad because you would have wasted your time, money and energy on something I wouldn't use and instead have to find a way to store or dispose of.  If you would have asked me what I wanted, and gotten me that, we would both have won, in my opinion.


I think you are reaching beyond yourself here. It's not your responsibility (and not, actually, your right) to worry about whether the gift giver has wasted their money.

That was their prerogative. They are grownups, and if it was important to them to NOT waste their money, they would have gone to your registry and purchased something you suggested.

If they didn't, it's because they didn't -want- to. And for you to take on too big a burden of feeling bad, or for you to think they've done the wrong thing, is for -you- to think you know better than them what their values are.

What your guests choose to give you is not actually your responsibility. Not before, and not after.
You just need to appreciate the effort they went to in giving you the gift.

Believe me, I get it about the "burden" part--I too have often had too-large guilt pangs about gifts that turned out to not be successful.

So I've come to this point of view from a place very similar to what you are describing.

I think I agree with both Toots and TurtleDove to some extent.  We received a large framed reproduction of a famous painting that neither DH or I care for as a wedding gift (which was actually brought to the wedding itself, so I thought it was part of the decor of the reception venue until I noticed it in our hotel suite the next morning (ceremony, reception, and accommodations were all in the same hotel)).  I was all "why is that picture in our suite now?" 

We did of course thank the gifters, but we did not end up keeping it.  Since it wasn't something that could be exchanged or returned, we actually gave it away, which made me feel bad as wedding gifts should be cherished.  We also received other gifts that were not what we would have chosen but which we love, not only for themselves but for the thought that went into picking them.  The picture, though?  It was huge and not in keeping with our taste at all (meaning decorating taste, it wasn't crude or anything).

The couple who gave it to us are divorced now and we are only likely to see the former husband of the couple, who I am sure did not pick it out, but if he did come over and ask I would feel really embarrassed as there is no way to say "we gave away your expensive gift that you picked out for us" without causing hurt feelings.  I guess the takeaway from this post is that if you go off-registry, at least don't pick art. :) 
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 21, 2014, 02:54:37 AM
I hope all the people you care about live really close to you, then. My favorite-estest cousin in the entire world lives in Mpls; I'm in NYC. How would I know what he likes?

It's never going to come up for me. I don't have family, close or extended,  no brothers/sisters, so no nieces and nephews etc of marriageable age. My father was also an only child, so I have no cousins on that side. I have some cousins on my mother's side, who I have never met because they mostly live overseas. Anyone whose wedding I would be going to, therefore, would likely be a close friend who lives locally. I would know them. Because I wouldn't be forking out money to attend the wedding of (or send a gift to) these relatives that I barely know.

Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?

I'm not Purple, but - why don't they just save up and buy them themselves instead of expecting everyone else to fund their decorative choices? Sure, these things are expensive, but that's all the more reason why you don't expect everyone else to buy them for you.

I understand that weddings are traditionally a gift giving event. However, what I personally find distasteful is "Yay, we're getting married - now someone else can buy us that expensive set of plates we want!"
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: purple on March 21, 2014, 04:45:02 AM
Purple, what about registries for things that come in patterns, like china, flatware, crystal, and linens?  How else could anyone buy those things?

Hi gellchom,

I personally would only buy somebody a gift of an entire set of towels (so 2 bath sheets, 2 hand towels, 2 face washers and a floor mat) or a tableware set that comprised at least 6 settings if I were to buy somebody that as a gift.  I might ask somebody closer to the bride if I wasn't sure about colours or I'd just buy plain white.  (I know sometimes on registries you have the option of buying one or two place-settings and the idea is that somebody else might buy another one or two and so on, but I wouldn't do that.) 

Otherwise, I'd buy something like a set of silver cutlery or a clear crystal vase or something like that.

I don't think I've ever been to a wedding of a person whose house I hadn't visited or who I didn't know pretty well, so generally I'm pretty well able to gauge if they'd like something or if it would fit with the rest of their home decor or not.

Like I say though, my standard wedding gift is cash.  I'll put it inside a nice silver or crystal box or something and wrap it up.

There's something that just rubs me the wrong way when people start telling me what they want as a gift.  I don't like it and I don't do it.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Harriet Jones on March 21, 2014, 05:41:09 AM
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TurtleDove on March 21, 2014, 08:26:02 AM
I'm not Purple, but - why don't they just save up and buy them themselves instead of expecting everyone else to fund their decorative choices? Sure, these things are expensive, but that's all the more reason why you don't expect everyone else to buy them for you.

I understand that weddings are traditionally a gift giving event. However, what I personally find distasteful is "Yay, we're getting married - now someone else can buy us that expensive set of plates we want!"

I have never seen this as the HC "expecting" anyone to "fund" anything. It's more, "if you are going to spend money on a gift for us, you may as well spend money on item X, which we would use and enjoy, rather than item Z, which we would thank you for and then immediately give away or put in storage because it is not to our taste."   It is not about trying to take advantage of guests, IME.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 21, 2014, 10:01:31 AM
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.
It isn't a "supposed to" thing, but I'm so glad I did for my own sake.  It's a treasure to me.  I also put the cards and gift enclosures in a scrapbook. 
Don't erase that file from your computer.

I just bought a place setting of china a couple registered as a wedding gift last night.  It's one of my favorite things to give.  Or sometimes if they seem to be getting plenty of the five piece settings but the soup bowls are separate on the registry I buy them some soup bowls.  Soup is essential to a healthy marriage! :)
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 21, 2014, 10:31:10 AM
I think in most circles, if you had a wedding of decent size, it would be weird and Twilight Zone-ish if absolutely no one gave you a present. Because generally, people do. So I think there's a difference between "expecting" people as a whole to do what they usually do under normal circumstances, and "expecting" as in "counting on down to every last detail."

But I think it can be a fine line, or maybe a slippery slope. I've never heard anyone suggest that it's rude to make arrangements for your wedding gifts to be transported from the venue to somewhere safe, because it's rude to assume that you're going to get any gifts. That's just being sensible and pragmatic.

And from there, one step at a time, you're reasoning that you won't have to pay for THIS because someone will buy it for you, and you won't have to pay for THAT, and "I estimate my extended family will give me $X total at the wedding, which we can put towards Y expense..." And that's a little dangerous, but to some people it can seem, again, just being pragmatic and planning ahead, and also enjoying the anticipation of getting gifts, which is not in itself bad I think.

And then the slope slips a little more, and you're standing on the other side going, "Why did Uncle Bob give me a Precious Moments figure that I didn't want?! I was counting on at least $200 cash from him, that's what he always gives!! How are we going to get the cabinets redone now?!" Which is rude.

Not that everyone has to go through the whole process, of course, but I think it's very easy for some people, who are otherwise polite, to slip further and further without realizing how far they've gone.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: camlan on March 21, 2014, 10:47:09 AM
I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

I didn't.  You're supposed to?

I'm sure I had a list for TY note purposes, but I may have kept it on the computer.
It isn't a "supposed to" thing, but I'm so glad I did for my own sake.  It's a treasure to me.  I also put the cards and gift enclosures in a scrapbook. 
Don't erase that file from your computer.

I just bought a place setting of china a couple registered as a wedding gift last night.  It's one of my favorite things to give.  Or sometimes if they seem to be getting plenty of the five piece settings but the soup bowls are separate on the registry I buy them some soup bowls.  Soup is essential to a healthy marriage! :)

Veering more off-topic here, but I found my mother's list of wedding presents many years after she died, while I was helping my father clear out the attic.

Some of the gifts were things we used every day--the little side table in the living room that Dad's best friend made for them. Many were used on special occasions--the silver serving dishes, the china, the silverware. It was really very touching to realize that things I knew my mother valued, but I didn't know why, were her wedding gifts from family and her close friends. And now I know why a particularly ratty-looking dresser scarf was kept and not thrown out--her sister had given it to her as an engagement gift.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: jedikaiti on March 21, 2014, 01:03:20 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.


I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Yvaine on March 21, 2014, 01:09:55 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.


I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".

Yeah kareng57, is that a "list of keepsakes" or is the list itself a keepsake, like put on fancy paper and framed or something?  ;) If it's the latter, I don't think I've heard of it, but that may just be me.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: gellchom on March 21, 2014, 01:44:39 PM
I think probably she meant just keeping the list as a memento rather than throwing it away when you finish writing your thank yous, not putting it on fancy paper or framing it or anything. 

Sometimes wedding and baby books have a few pages in back for recording gifts, but that's the closest I've ever seen to it being a "thing."
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Hmmmmm on March 21, 2014, 04:47:50 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.


I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".

I was married in '93. It was very common to have a wedding memory book given to the bride. It was used to have guests sign in at parties (engagement, showers, bridal luncheon) and I could record all wedding gifts. It was also used as the wedding guest registry at the wedding ceremony/reception.  We could also attach copies of all invitations and add photos. It's sort of like a wedding scrapbook. I still have mine. My sister has my mothers when she was married in the early '50s.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: kareng57 on March 21, 2014, 04:53:17 PM
But where's the experience of giving/receiving a gift if you tell someone *exactly* what you want and they buy it for you? You may as well just ask for the money and/or say "I want £100 to buy X item", which, thinking about it, I think is why I find it distasteful.

For me, gifts of tangible items that I have no use for are more of a burden than a blessing.  I don't need anything, though I might want certain specific things.  Most/all of my friends and family who are getting married and having babies (or whatever other gift giving event) are the same way.  We don't need anything.  We aren't expecting people to make it possible to take a honeymoon or furnish our homes.  We are financially stable.  We are not gimme pigs.  This is why I am a fan of experience gifts. This would be memorable for me.  This would make me think fondly of someone every time I thought about the experience.  A platter or extra toaster or towels I don't like that I immediately put in storage I am not likely to think of ever again.

But that's my risk to run.

You aren't entitled to receive something you will use. You're the giver--you don't actually get any role in picking out the present. Your role is completely, completely passive.

Honestly, if I buy you something from your registry, that you picked out, and you receive it along with lots of other things you picked out, will you remember who gave it to you?

And if you give it away bcs you won't use it, well, that's completely your role.


I'm confused.  Don't people keep a keepsake-list of wedding gifts anymore?

For me it was 34 years ago and we got many nice gifts, both from the registry and not.  We very much appreciated all of them.  And even though the china gravy boat (as an example) was on the registry, I still knew who gave it.

I see registries as a suggestion - nothing more.

A keepsake list? I have a spreadsheet I used so I could make sure I got all the TY cards out, but nothing I'd call a "keepsake".

Yeah kareng57, is that a "list of keepsakes" or is the list itself a keepsake, like put on fancy paper and framed or something?  ;) If it's the latter, I don't think I've heard of it, but that may just be me.


It was part of our "wedding book" (not photo album but separate book) - they used to be pretty common.  There were spaces for the B&G's family trees, the guest sign-in list, and the list of gifts.

I guess perhaps no one uses them anymore; I was just a bit surprised about the assertion that using the registry meant that there'd be no record of who gave what.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Harriet Jones on March 21, 2014, 05:06:41 PM
I've never heard of a wedding book, but I'm not a scrapbook kind of person and I doubt I would have kept one.  We did have a guest book.

While we got a lot of nice things as wedding gifts, we didn't really get a lot of "heirloom" type gifts (didn't register for china/crystal/silver).  I'm not sure how sentimental I'd be about towels that had been washed to tatters decades before.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 21, 2014, 09:36:52 PM

There's something that just rubs me the wrong way when people start telling me what they want as a gift.  I don't like it and I don't do it.

I totally get that. I have somewhat the same reaction.

And so I don't go -look- at the registry at all.
Or, I might go look and see if there is anything I can spring off from.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: kareng57 on March 21, 2014, 11:12:57 PM
I think there is sometimes a conflict over gift expectations, as camlan says, and it can be hard to see when you (general) have tipped over the line--you're so excited about getting specific things, or being able to take a trip you couldn't afford on your own, or something like that, and then someone goes and gives you something that does not fit with this plan. We're only human, it can be hard to take a step back and realize, "No, I should be grateful for this gift, no matter what it is." (I do think there are mean-spirited, dismissive gifts that one does not need to be grateful for, but I don't think that's the case here.)

For example, my friend Amy put things on her wedding registry and baby shower registry, and she wanted those things, not something similar, not a cheaper version, not a different color. She's pragmatic and decisive, she researched everything before deciding on it, and she truly didn't understand why someone would get her something different. She wanted sage green towels in brand X, someone gave her chocolate brown towels in brand Y. Why? Obviously they didn't realize that the color, brand, and store were selected very carefully, and that she will immediately take the brown towels back to the store without even unfolding them. I think I accompanied her on at least 3 trips to return things to stores, before the wedding even took place. And returning something to a store is not always the fastest or most pleasant experience, and you start thinking more about the time and inconvenience and gas, and "Why couldn't they have just given me something from my list?! Was that really so hard?!"

But of course, once you get too far down that path, I think you're in danger of becoming rude. I suppose if you always keep it to yourself, or at least don't let the giver know, you're functionally still good. But if it bleeds out into how you think about the person--"I really wanted X, why couldn't they just do that?"--that can be bad.

The bolded is something I cannot stand.
You throw the party / wedding that _you_ (general) can afford and you (general) take the honeymoon that _you_ (general) can afford.

I don't want to see a cash bar and a honeymoon registry because you (general) have decided that you (general) want to have a party or go on a holiday that you need me to subsidise.

I'm quite generous when it comes to wedding gifts.  I don't mind parting with a bit of cash for a HC, but once they start telling me to give them this or that, it's the quickest way to make me tighten my purse strings.

I've never understood this line of reasoning. If a couple registers for china and linens and  a bunch of appliances they couldn't otherwise afford on their own, that's okay? But if they prefer the experience of traveling together to a toaster, thats not ok?

No, that's not ok either, from my personal viewpoint.

I don't like gift registries of any kind.  I cannot get on board with them.  I think they are rude.

When I'm faced with one I tend to buy something from there but I do think the person a bit rude.

I know there are pro-registry people and anti-registry people out there and I can happily agree to disagree about the whole issue.  I just happen to be one of the people in the anti-registry camp.

No hard feelings to anybody in the other camp  :)

ETA: I removed a bit, because it's not probably true of my feelings.  Also to add that my standard wedding gift these days (for those who do not have registries) is cash and so far I've had no complaints  :).


Cash is always fine, of course, and can be the best bet if the giver is unsure of the HC's preferences.

However, I politely differ with a PP's assertion that anyone close enough to the HC to be invited to the wedding will already know their preferences.  Maybe, maybe not.  They might have been living in bare-bones student housing previously, and will be relocating to a new, much larger place after the wedding.  Or, the bride might have a dear great-aunt who has corresponded with her regularly, but has not visited her since she moved out of her parents' home eight years earlier.  In either case, the guest likely won't have any idea of the new preferences.

Again, guests are free to not use the registry but one of its purposes is to help avoid duplications or "too many".  For example, I know brides today seldom register for china, but years ago it was pretty common.  And a mainstream, fairly affordable line like Royal Albert used to cost about $50 a place-setting on sale so it was quite a  common gift for guests who like to give china.  But say the HC registered for eight settings (they wouldn't be able to seat any more at their table) - this would help prevent them receiving ten settings, and either returning the extra two, or storing them somewhere indefinitely.  Even today, maybe they enjoy coffee/lattes and someone learns that they'd like a Tassimo.  If they haven't registered, they could end up with a half-dozen of them.

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: menley on March 22, 2014, 03:41:35 AM
Yes, my sister and her husband had a registry, but her husband's relatives were convinced that they wanted George Foreman grills (not on the registry - they owned an actual grill and were known for their grilling parties!). They received 9 of them, all without receipts. By the time they opened the 9th, they were certainly not thinking of the kindness of the gift givers but the annoyance, and I don't blame them. They wrote lovely thank you notes, but each and every grill was sold on craigslist for around $5. I honestly think they would have preferred to receive nothing at all than to have to deal with photographing, typing up a listing on CL, responding to messages and meeting with buyers.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 22, 2014, 08:12:33 AM
Those things are not the fault of the givers.

Yes, it's unfortunate, but to be annoyed at the -people-? And to think that the people who gave those gifts should have known about this and just given nothing?

Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: perpetua on March 22, 2014, 08:52:43 AM
Yes, my sister and her husband had a registry, but her husband's relatives were convinced that they wanted George Foreman grills (not on the registry - they owned an actual grill and were known for their grilling parties!). They received 9 of them, all without receipts. By the time they opened the 9th, they were certainly not thinking of the kindness of the gift givers but the annoyance, and I don't blame them. They wrote lovely thank you notes, but each and every grill was sold on craigslist for around $5. I honestly think they would have preferred to receive nothing at all than to have to deal with photographing, typing up a listing on CL, responding to messages and meeting with buyers.

If they were that bothered, why didn't they give them away to a charity shop or someone who would like them? Why did they feel it was necessary to get money out of peoples' gifts to them? This is my whole point.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: menley on March 22, 2014, 11:07:24 AM
Yes, my sister and her husband had a registry, but her husband's relatives were convinced that they wanted George Foreman grills (not on the registry - they owned an actual grill and were known for their grilling parties!). They received 9 of them, all without receipts. By the time they opened the 9th, they were certainly not thinking of the kindness of the gift givers but the annoyance, and I don't blame them. They wrote lovely thank you notes, but each and every grill was sold on craigslist for around $5. I honestly think they would have preferred to receive nothing at all than to have to deal with photographing, typing up a listing on CL, responding to messages and meeting with buyers.

If they were that bothered, why didn't they give them away to a charity shop or someone who would like them? Why did they feel it was necessary to get money out of peoples' gifts to them? This is my whole point.

I guess I just don't see the problem with getting money for something if someone is willing to pay you for it. Yeah, if it were me personally, I would've thrown them all in a bag and dropped it off at the local Goodwill, because to me it wouldn't be worth my time to try to sell them. My sister felt differently, but I don't see anything wrong with what she did.

And yes, of course it's not the problem of the gift givers - but if their intent was, as you both seem to say, to build a relationship in their gift-giving, they failed miserably. Instead of thinking of what they would truly want, they got what was easy for them to get (we were later told that the reason all 9 of them bought George Foreman grills is that there was a super sale at Wal-Mart and it was a buy-one, get one free deal. They all wanted one for themselves, so they got the "free" one and gave it to my sister.)
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Specky on March 22, 2014, 03:05:24 PM
Menley wrote:   Instead of thinking of what they would truly want, they got what was easy for them to get (we were later told that the reason all 9 of them bought George Foreman grills is that there was a super sale at Wal-Mart and it was a buy-one, get one free deal. They all wanted one for themselves, so they got the "free" one and gave it to my sister.)

Well, now...  A lot of thought went into that gifting, eh?
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Harriet Jones on March 22, 2014, 04:18:34 PM
They could have gotten store credit by returning them to Walmart, even without a receipt.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 22, 2014, 07:07:22 PM
Yes, my sister and her husband had a registry, but her husband's relatives were convinced that they wanted George Foreman grills (not on the registry - they owned an actual grill and were known for their grilling parties!). They received 9 of them, all without receipts. By the time they opened the 9th, they were certainly not thinking of the kindness of the gift givers but the annoyance, and I don't blame them. They wrote lovely thank you notes, but each and every grill was sold on craigslist for around $5. I honestly think they would have preferred to receive nothing at all than to have to deal with photographing, typing up a listing on CL, responding to messages and meeting with buyers.

After 9 identical gifts, it's almost funny, in a way. I do think it would have been rude if the givers knew they were all giving the same thing, in time to do something about it, and instead just shrugged and said "whatever." Because while someone might find an extra set of towels or even an extra place setting useful, no one needs 9 George Foreman grills. It kind of boggles my mind that they didn't know, yet all had the same idea, with no evidence for it.

Though, my mom got four fondue sets for her wedding. This was the early '70's and they were very popular. I don't think she wanted any of them.
Title: Re: We're so going to E-Hell... (3 new questions on post 15)
Post by: TootsNYC on March 22, 2014, 09:21:05 PM
... By the time they opened the 9th, they were certainly not thinking of the kindness of the gift givers but the annoyance, and I don't blame them. ... each and every grill was sold on craigslist for around $5. I honestly think they would have preferred to receive nothing at all than to have to deal with photographing, typing up a listing on CL, responding to messages and meeting with buyers.

If they were that bothered, why didn't they give them away to a charity shop or someone who would like them? Why did they feel it was necessary to get money out of peoples' gifts to them? This is my whole point.

I guess I just don't see the problem with getting money for something if someone is willing to pay you for it. Yeah, if it were me personally, I would've thrown them all in a bag and dropped it off at the local Goodwill, because to me it wouldn't be worth my time to try to sell them. My sister felt differently, but I don't see anything wrong with
what she did.

I don't see anything wrong with it either--except that going to that much trouble just make them resent the gift givers all the more!

THAT is the part that bothers me. If it's that much trouble, give them away and take the tax deduction.