Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Family and Children => Topic started by: FutureWife on March 27, 2014, 09:23:21 PM

Title: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: FutureWife on March 27, 2014, 09:23:21 PM
My husband and I are expecting our first child this Summer.  My best friend of 15 years, who is NOT pregnant and has only expressed a desire to start a family since I told her we were expecting, asked me a few months ago if we had thought of names so I told her how we were debating between Charlotte and Catherine for a girl.  (I know, that was my first mistake!). Well she told me that he has her heart set on having a little girl and naming her Charlotte and asked me not to use the name.  I wanted to keep the peace and since we didn't know the baby's gender at the time told her I would keep it in mind.

Well...it's a girl!  We really do love the name Charlotte and have decided that our little one will have that name.  My friend is very upset with me.  She feels like I have "stolen" her name and that I am not considering her feelings.  To be honest, I really hadn't.  My reasons for not picking a different name are:
1. She is NOT pregnant and only recently decided she wanted to be.
2. They live on the opposite side of the US and it's not like our children will grow up spending lots of time together.
3. Charlotte is a VERY common name.  It's not like I have picked a unique family name from her family...she just likes it.
4. They may never have children and if they do, they may end up with only boys.  I do not like the idea of renaming my child because she might have one.

I have told her that I have no problem with both of us having girls with the same name.  I haw pointed out how far apart in geography and possibly age they kids may be and I have even reminded her that the decision is not solely mine and my husband happens to be fond of the name as well.  I haven't pointed out that she isn't now pregnant and may never have a girl because she was very upset on the phone and I didn't want to hurt her more.

My question is, am I a mean person for using a name she loves?  In my situation, would you change the name? 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on March 27, 2014, 09:31:00 PM
You decided that Charlotte was one of the contenders BEFORE your friend told you that it was "her" name.  She's being silly and selfish.  Name your daughter whatever you please.

And your friend will either get over it or die mad. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Hmmmmm on March 27, 2014, 09:32:23 PM
No, I wouldn't change the name. If an unusual name she had discussed a few times, then I'd find it odd you decided to use the name. But this is a common name she had never mentioned until she asked you about names. IMHO she is projecting her envy about your coming child onto a silly subject like stealing a name.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Jones on March 27, 2014, 09:40:14 PM
My cousin and I were pregnant at the same time (DS). I didn't know she favored the name we gave DS, I gave birth first and she chose to name her son Ian instead. The next 2 years jokes went around when people found out Ian and DS could have had the same name. I insisted it would have been fine if the name share had happened. Cousin recently had her second child and gave him the favored name, spelled the other way (2 traditional ways) from how I'd done it. That tickled me a little.

When people care about each other, names don't matter. She can't dibs a name that you brought up first, anyway. Your friend may have a little Charles instead, when she does start her family, too.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: missmolly on March 27, 2014, 09:51:26 PM
My Aunt pulled the same stunt when my mother was pregnant with my brother. She declared that she wanted to name her firstborn "Edward" after their great grandfather, even though Aunt wasn't even pregnant at the time. Since Mum had already picked another name for Bro, she was amused by Aunt rather than annoyed. Mum was even more amused when Aunt did have a boy, and after warning all and sundry that Edward was off-limits to everyone, named him Oliver instead.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Nemesis on March 27, 2014, 09:55:16 PM
Honestly, just tell her to name her future daughter Charlotte as she had planned. The world could use with more Charlottes.

And if she throws a fit, point out that there are many Charlottes in the world and if she wishes for only her future child to have this name, it is going to be a steep hill to climb.

And then go ahead and name your baby anything you want!

AND Congratulations!!!!!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: kherbert05 on March 27, 2014, 10:01:31 PM
Names are in public domain. I don't care if your child and her future child are double first cousins of two sets of identical twins, who live next door to each other in a West Texas School district with 9 kids per grade - She doesn't get to reserve a name. If her child was born first you could still use it.

My family off the top of my head with a splitting head ache. Going only to cousins that spend time with each other.

6 James/Jimmie


2 Harvey


4 Christie/Christina


2 Mitch


6 Steve/Stephen (OK - 2 who didn't know each other happen to have 2 letter difference in their last name. Their mothers' had nearly identical names after their marriages and they ran in the same circles but didn't meet. One nearly got arrested for "pretending" to be the other and "robbing" my grandmother's house before their mutual great aunt who's marriage connected the 2 families got the situation figured out).


2 Melissa

8 different combinations of Edward, Edwin, Arthur

4 Andrews

3 Paul/Paula

10 Mary Margret/Margret Mary(Yes a large portion of the family are RC)

2 Geraldine/Gerry

2 Estell/Stella

10 Mike (Including 2 with same last name in the same small town)

5 Bill/Will/William/Laim

6 Anne/Ann

4 Emily Ann/e combinations


2 Thomas

2 Cameron


2 Ben


2 Matthews


4 Rolands
You know what 99% of the time I know exactly who Sis is talking about, when she calls and says Mike needs y or Liam did X just from the context and who they were with.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: CakeEater on March 27, 2014, 10:19:12 PM
Agree with the others - you're fine in naming your daughter your preferred name. In some circumstances, it might be odd to choose the name, but I don't think this is one.

Here's a naming column that talks about this a lot - something here might help:

http://www.namecandy.com/name-lady/search/name%2Bthief
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 27, 2014, 10:24:29 PM
Your "friend" needs to find a chair and have a seat.  You are pregnant, she is not. So basically she has made your pregnancy choices all about her.  Really?  Really?

This conversation is a gift, you now know more about her than you did before.  Use that information wisely. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: FoxPaws on March 27, 2014, 10:37:54 PM
No, you are not being mean. No, I would not change the name.

The only way you would be out of line is if she had created a unique variation - like spelling it Sharlut or something - and you copied that. A centuries old name with a traditional spelling? You're in the clear.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: JenJay on March 27, 2014, 10:52:18 PM
Good grief, she can't ask you to strike half your list in case she might want to use it someday. And, one parent to another, do take the list - just in case. Sometimes those little buggers don't match the name you chose. If you tossed the list (or misplaced it or grabbed an old one from a previous baby) you have to start over. Been there.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: FutureWife on March 27, 2014, 10:58:13 PM
Thank you all for not thinking I'm a jerk!  With husband out of town and raging hormones, it's nice to get an outside opinion!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on March 27, 2014, 11:16:37 PM
Good grief, she can't ask you to strike half your list in case she might want to use it someday. And, one parent to another, do take the list - just in case. Sometimes those little buggers don't match the name you chose. If you tossed the list (or misplaced it or grabbed an old one from a previous baby) you have to start over. Been there.
One of my favorite memories is of DD2, sitting up in her hospital bed with her newborn son propped up on her bent knees, discussing her list of baby names with him.  She didn't want to give him the wrong name, one that he didn't like.  I'm really glad that she ruled out the ones that *I* didn't like! 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on March 27, 2014, 11:26:22 PM
Your immature and self centred friend is so far beyond ridiculous that I have no words.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Tea Drinker on March 27, 2014, 11:31:48 PM
In general, I don't think names are/should be considered reserved. If there was serious risk of confusion, I might reconsider--but that's confusion on the level of people naming twin boys Christopher and Christian, or Aiden and Jayden (I wish I was making those up, they're from the social security administration website a few years back. In each case, several different sets of parents did this.) Not just "which of my cousins Janet are we talking about?" or "there are three Mikes at this party." (If I was expecting a child, and looking at a family where half of the boys are named Tim and most of the rest are Robert, I wouldn't deal with that by telling other people they couldn't use those names, I would do it by using some other name for my own child, family tradition or no.)

That said, while it's an unreasonable demand, there are also more and less polite ways of making the request, and context might matter. As the OP noted, this is the first she's heard of her friend wanting to call a daughter Charlotte, and the tone seems a bit like "I know you got here first, but how dare you not let me cut in front of you in line for this event." That there isn't a finite number of tickets makes it sillier; it doesn't make it less rude. If her friend had been talking about wanting to name a daughter Charlotte for 15 years, since Charlotte was the 305th-most-popular girl's name in the United States, instead of the 19th, I might have cut her more slack, a gentler "I know you really like that name, but so do a lot of other people. Even if I called my daughter something else, your child would still know other Charlottes."

Your best bet is probably to drop the subject until you send out birth announcements. If your friend pushes, maybe tell her once that there are two people who get a vote here, you and your husband, and that you're not going to discuss it further.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Katana_Geldar on March 27, 2014, 11:33:52 PM
This is why to avoid any dispute on the subject, good and bad, we've avoided telling ANYONE our baby's name until after he's born. But your friend isn't even expecting, what does she have to worry about? She might even change her mind later on.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: CrazyDaffodilLady on March 28, 2014, 12:10:20 AM
You both like the name Charlotte.  Even if there were a rule that your girls couldn't have the same name, why should she be the one who gets the name?  What makes her more important than you?  I think these would be good questions to ask her.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: aussie_chick on March 28, 2014, 12:43:06 AM
I believe Charlotte was the most common name in 2013 although this might have just been Australia. So it's not unusual to me that two people in the same generation might want to name their child Charlotte.

You did nothing wrong Op. You did not steal her baby's name.

I remember the Sex and the City episode when Charlotte(!) accused Laney of stealing her baby name 'Shayla'. That's a little different. I think Charlotte claimed to have made the name up.

But even then, names aren't copyrighted.

Only way to avoid is not to mention to anyone what you might call your child. But in an ideal you shouldn't have to do that.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: peaches on March 28, 2014, 12:58:43 AM
There's no need for you to give up the name you've chosen.

Your friend should not have asked it of you.

Charlotte's a lovely name, by the way.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Lindee on March 28, 2014, 02:25:27 AM
Of course you should name your child Charlotte.  If your entitled friend ever has a daughter I think the odds are quite good that she would have changed her mind about the name for her by then anyway.   I just "knew" I was having a daughter (back in the day when you got to be surprised at the birth) and had picked out Amy Louise so it was a scramble to name my lovely son when he arrived.  By the time my beautiful daughter arrived I'd met a lot more babies and children at playgroups and mother's clubs and closer acquaintance with a extremely whiny Amy and an ill-behaved Louise had soured those names irretrievably for me so it was back to the drawing board, especially as I had Benjamin all picked out.  I stopped then so I was only Nil for Two on the sex prediction front.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Sharnita on March 28, 2014, 04:28:05 AM
You realize you not only stold a name, you stold a gender.  She would like a girl named Charlotte and you are having a girl - and naming her Charlotte.   ::)

Seriously, it is her issue.  No way to reason with her.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: camlan on March 28, 2014, 05:46:47 AM
The only way you can steal a name is if someone invents a new name. Otherwise, pretty much all the baby names out there are in the public domain.

Your friend is being a special snowflake. You have every right to name your baby the name you like best.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: scotcat60 on March 28, 2014, 06:46:07 AM
I have cousins who both have a grandaughter named Kirsty. Their oldest sister was Margaret, and so was their first cousin.

Researching my family tree, I found out that my great great grandmas neices and nephews were all called either Elizabeth, James, Allan, George, Mary ,Margaret , Janet, Robert, Thomas, Anne, John. or William. So they were all first cousins to each other. There was one Charlotte, born in 1824, and she must have felt left out! If someone had yelled any one of those names at a family gathering, up to 6 children and one adult would have answered.

Call your daughter Charlotte by all means. There is no copyright on names, and your friend might end up having all boys, or even no children at all.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Jones on March 28, 2014, 07:00:49 AM
Even making up a name may not work. My mom thought she made up my name but it turns out my name is used in India and I have seen TV characters who share it, though they pronounce it slightly differently from how I (and those who know me) do.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Margo on March 28, 2014, 07:14:24 AM
I agree with eveyone else. Your 'friend' is being immature and silly.
EvilMargo is tempted to turn the tables on her by pointing out that you told her that you were thinking of naming your daughter Charlotte and that you are deeply hurt and upset that she is even considering stealing the name from you (after all, you told her the name, before she'd ever mentioned her hypothetical plans to you!)

It's probably a good thing that EvilMargo doesn't know your friend...

And honestly, if it is so important to her that her (hypothetical) child doesn't share a name, then she really shouldn't set her heart on such a popular name. I bet there would be fewer other kids with the same name if she went for something like Hepzibah or Jerusha!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: SamiHami on March 28, 2014, 07:22:38 AM
All I can add is that I agree with everyone else. If Charlotte is your daughter's name, then that's it. I'm from a family with lots and lots of Kathy/Cathy/Katy/Katharines, and yet we survived to tell the tale. And everyone still likes each other. Seriously, we have some variation on the name at least 1/2 dozen times in my generation and the next (probably more than that, actually).

Your friend is being silly. Name your baby whatever you wish and she can do the same for hers, if and when she ever has one. Heck, by then she might have different names in mind entirely.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on March 28, 2014, 07:58:54 AM
You decided that Charlotte was one of the contenders BEFORE your friend told you that it was "her" name.  She's being silly and selfish.  Name your daughter whatever you please.

And your friend will either get over it or die mad.

This.  Names are public domain.  Get over it or die mad is a perfect assessment. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Klein Bottle on March 28, 2014, 09:48:56 AM
Is Charlotte the new Emma?  I have been meeting/hearing of so many little girls with that name lately, and I love it!  One of my cool Italian aunties is named Charlotte, and I would have considered it for the baby who is now Son aged 17, if it didn't sound so terrible with our last name.   (Same initial "Sh" sound; it would be worse than a tongue twister.)

Your friend sounds like she has something else going on, something to make her wig out so badly at the fact that you are using a common female name for the daughter you are expecting, when she, herself, doesn't even know if a daughter is in her future.  But, we are not here to psychoanalyze, and it's not your problem, anyway.  You are fine to use the name.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy baby girl!  You must be over the moon.    ;D

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: penelope2017 on March 28, 2014, 10:01:19 AM
So what happens if she ends up only having boys? Neither of you get to use the name Charlotte? Just ridiculous.

The name is beautiful. Use it with no qualms.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Cali.in.UK on March 28, 2014, 10:01:45 AM
My best friend of 15 years, who is NOT pregnant and has only expressed a desire to start a family since I told her we were expecting, asked me a few months ago if we had thought of names so I told her how we were debating between Charlotte and Catherine for a girl. (I know, that was my first mistake!). Well she told me that he has her heart set on having a little girl and naming her Charlotte and asked me not to use the name.

What is weird about this is that it seems to me as if it is the other way around, and she is trying to hijack your baby name choice. She asked you, you told her, and then she said, "Oh that's the name I was planning on." Hmmm. The fact that you mentioned it first (and you are expecting) seems fine to name her Charlotte.
Just remind her that she had asked you and you told her a name that you and you DH have spent time considering and growing attached to before she made the strange request that you eliminate the name from your list. Also add (what PPs mentioned) that its fine if you both use the name Charlotte, it's a nice name and there is no reason why you can't both use it.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: bah12 on March 28, 2014, 10:02:45 AM
I would be more sympathetic to your friend has she told you that she loved the name Charlotte and suddenly you said "Oh! What a great idea...that will by my daughter's name!"  And even then, I would have said it was silly of her to lay claim to a name (or at the least tell everyone about it) before she was even expecting.

Her telling you it was "her" name after you told her you were considering it means not stolen.  Her having a fit about it is insane and not something I would waste much energy worrying about.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: rose red on March 28, 2014, 10:19:09 AM
Remind her that you did not steal the name. You said the name first.

If you are brave enough, ask her if there's something else going on. Sounds like this is about more than a name. Like a PP, I find it suspicious that she claimed the name after you mentioned it.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: bopper on March 28, 2014, 10:28:21 AM
"We live so far apart that it won't be an issue, and if anyone says anything you can say "We both independently came up with that name and decided we didn't care what other people thought and they could be Charlotte-cousins.""
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: jaxsue on March 28, 2014, 10:46:31 AM
Your "friend" needs to find a chair and have a seat.  You are pregnant, she is not. So basically she has made your pregnancy choices all about her.  Really?  Really?

This conversation is a gift, you now know more about her than you did before.  Use that information wisely.

ITA!

OP, when my mom was expecting my oldest brother, my aunt and uncle were also expecting. My parents were going to name him David, but my aunt/uncle had their son and named him that. My parents, not wanting the confusion of 2 David Smiths (last name changed) in the family, named my brother Daniel. Ironically, we saw this cousin TWICE in our lives!  ::)

Name your baby the way you want to. Ignore her; she's being ridiculous.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: shhh its me on March 28, 2014, 10:52:48 AM
  No one owns names but I would have some sympathy for a person who made up a name, was resurrecting one thats fallen out of use or spent months researching and most importantly TOLD YOU FIRST.

Evil me would be imagining , slowly pick up the spray bottle I have for seedlings and give her a squirt in the face every time she mentioned.   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: HGolightly on March 28, 2014, 11:02:00 AM
The odds are high that she will even change her mind IF the time comes. Her future partner might have an opinion about that. Years ago having the " what if? " conversation with my hubby he and I each had a beloved name for a boy and a girl. Guess what? Neither our daughter nor son have those names.  When we had dd we had a boys name picked out. Guess what? We did not use that boys name for our son. For him, we chose a name that happens to be the same as the son of an acquaintance. Things change. Use Charlotte because the world needs more Charlottes :) Congratulations and good luck with everything! And nap because naps are wonderful
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elisabunny on March 28, 2014, 12:02:18 PM
Your "friend" needs to find a chair and have a seat.  You are pregnant, she is not. So basically she has made your pregnancy choices all about her.  Really?  Really?

This conversation is a gift, you now know more about her than you did before.  Use that information wisely.

ITA!

OP, when my mom was expecting my oldest brother, my aunt and uncle were also expecting. My parents were going to name him David, but my aunt/uncle had their son and named him that. My parents, not wanting the confusion of 2 David Smiths (last name changed) in the family, named my brother Daniel. Ironically, we saw this cousin TWICE in our lives!  ::)

Name your baby the way you want to. Ignore her; she's being ridiculous.

We had a similar situation.  A cousin gave their son a family name we had been considering.  Since they have the same last name, we struck it off our list of possibilities. 

However, we have two nephews named Joe.  My eldest daughter's name and a male cousin's are homophones.  There are various other cousin pairs with very similar names. 

And for non-family names, when I was growing up, my church class had nine girls.  One-third of them were named Elizabeth/Elisabeth.  Somehow, we all survived.  ::)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Alli8098 on March 28, 2014, 12:14:01 PM
We have two Jessica's in our family.  My first cousin whom I used to babysit, and my DD.  And no, I did not name DD after my first cousin.  We really liked the name and of course after DD was born Jessica is what suited her.  My cousin lives in another state and there has been no confusion having two Jessica's in the family.  I think my grandmother is tickled to have a granddaughter and great-granddaughter with the same first name.

Your friend and her potential DD won't die if you use the name Charlotte.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Klein Bottle on March 28, 2014, 12:19:16 PM
When my cousin got pregnant with her second child, the boy name she wanted was the same as my son's.  It's an old fashioned family name, and I was a little taken aback, but she had enough going on in her life at the time, so of course, I didn't make an issue of it.  On the maternal side of my family, we cousins are as close as siblings, and our children are also very close, so it would have been a little confusing at times, but no big deal.

Then, she found out she was having a girl.  The name they chose?  The very same unusual name we had picked for a girl when we were expecting Son!  I love the name, and I was tickled that I obviously have such good taste.    ;)  (She did choose a different middle name, however, and the entire name is beautiful.)  I can't remember if I had ever told her what our "girl" name was, but I am thinking they came up with it entirely on their own. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Winterlight on March 28, 2014, 12:40:46 PM
She's being ridiculous. Ignore her with a clear conscience.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on March 28, 2014, 01:03:10 PM
She's being silly.

Funny aside, my sister-in-law and I are in a race to have a baby girl so we can claim the name Juanita. It's my grandma's name and her mom's name.

Funnier thing? They aren't trying and I have no man in my life so that "race" is at a snail's pace with pit stops. :)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blueyzca01 on March 28, 2014, 01:14:41 PM
I have a sister Chris, a male cousin Chris, and an Aunt Kris.  No one is confused and no one felt usurped. 

Tell your friend to get over her bad self.  Seriously.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: jayhawk on March 28, 2014, 01:21:39 PM
Just want to add my agreement.  Congratulations on your pregnancy and Charlotte is a lovely name.


Your "friend" needs to find a chair and have a seat.  You are pregnant, she is not. So basically she has made your pregnancy choices all about her.  Really?  Really?

This conversation is a gift, you now know more about her than you did before.  Use that information wisely.

The bolded above is the best thing I've read all day. Stealing it for future use.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MrsVandy on March 28, 2014, 01:27:33 PM
Your friend is being ridiculous. She may want that name now but who knows what she'll want once she actually has a baby girl. I always wanted to name a baby girl Claudia, but now that I'm having my baby girl that won't be her name. Now my Dh and I agreed on Claire. A coworker likes Clara and is expecting as well, but she's not finding out the sex, is due months after me and doesn't care that the names are very similar.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Sara Crewe on March 28, 2014, 01:40:39 PM
I have a friend who from a young age knew exactly what unusual name she wanted to give her future daughter.

She then married a man with a daughter who had exactly that name.  Needless to say, when she had her little girl, she picked another name.

I do think naming a child the same thing as her older half sister who spends at least part of her time in the same household is probably the one situation where isn't really OK.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: magicdomino on March 28, 2014, 01:42:08 PM
The odds are high that she will even change her mind IF the time comes. Her future partner might have an opinion about that. Years ago having the " what if? " conversation with my hubby he and I each had a beloved name for a boy and a girl. Guess what? Neither our daughter nor son have those names.  When we had dd we had a boys name picked out. Guess what? We did not use that boys name for our son. For him, we chose a name that happens to be the same as the son of an acquaintance. Things change. Use Charlotte because the world needs more Charlottes :) Congratulations and good luck with everything! And nap because naps are wonderful

Excellent point.  My mother always wanted to name a girl Joyce, and nickname her Joy.  Two of my siblings are boys.  Both my sister's father and my father disliked the name.  No Joy in my family.   ;)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: SamiHami on March 28, 2014, 01:48:12 PM
Anyone else remember the doctor on House that got both his exwife and a girlfriend pregnant at the same time, kept that fact secret from both of them, and he wound up with two daughters with the same name?
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Alli8098 on March 28, 2014, 02:23:51 PM
Anyone else remember the doctor on House that got both his exwife and a girlfriend pregnant at the same time, kept that fact secret from both of them, and he wound up with two daughters with the same name?

I have to see that episode!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Figgie on March 28, 2014, 02:26:10 PM
I think I may have posted this before, but I'm not sure. :)  My spouse's cousin was extremely upset when she found out that her daughter and our daughter had the exact same first and middle names (last names are different).  This particular cousin is usually quite sweet, but not the sharpest knife in drawer. :)

When she confronted me about the name, I looked at her and said:  "Lois, our daughter is two years OLDER than your daughter.  I'm not at all upset that you chose the same name for your daughter as we did for ours."

She huffed and puffed a few times, but that pretty much took the wind out of her sails.  :)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on March 28, 2014, 03:32:49 PM
I agree with eveyone else. Your 'friend' is being immature and silly.
EvilMargo is tempted to turn the tables on her by pointing out that you told her that you were thinking of naming your daughter Charlotte and that you are deeply hurt and upset that she is even considering stealing the name from you (after all, you told her the name, before she'd ever mentioned her hypothetical plans to you!)

It's probably a good thing that EvilMargo doesn't know your friend...

And honestly, if it is so important to her that her (hypothetical) child doesn't share a name, then she really shouldn't set her heart on such a popular name. I bet there would be fewer other kids with the same name if she went for something like Hepzibah or Jerusha!
Jerusha is pretty, but Hepzibah --  :P
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on March 28, 2014, 03:39:52 PM
All I can add is that I agree with everyone else. If Charlotte is your daughter's name, then that's it. I'm from a family with lots and lots of Kathy/Cathy/Katy/Katharines, and yet we survived to tell the tale. And everyone still likes each other. Seriously, we have some variation on the name at least 1/2 dozen times in my generation and the next (probably more than that, actually.)
If you count the different C/K spellings and variant forms in other languages, Katharine has about 60 different variations.  Lots of room for naming a child so that it's "different, but the same."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: magicdomino on March 28, 2014, 04:01:25 PM
I agree with eveyone else. Your 'friend' is being immature and silly.
EvilMargo is tempted to turn the tables on her by pointing out that you told her that you were thinking of naming your daughter Charlotte and that you are deeply hurt and upset that she is even considering stealing the name from you (after all, you told her the name, before she'd ever mentioned her hypothetical plans to you!)

It's probably a good thing that EvilMargo doesn't know your friend...

And honestly, if it is so important to her that her (hypothetical) child doesn't share a name, then she really shouldn't set her heart on such a popular name. I bet there would be fewer other kids with the same name if she went for something like Hepzibah or Jerusha!
Jerusha is pretty, but Hepzibah --  :P

I like Hepzibah, but wouldn't stick it on an innocent child.  Now, a cat, maybe . . .  ;)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: doodlemor on March 28, 2014, 04:18:01 PM

I like Hepzibah, but wouldn't stick it on an innocent child.  Now, a cat, maybe . . .  ;)

I love the names Angharad, Bronwyn, and Aisling.  Maybe I'll use them for the next cats who show up here.  I wonder how many women named Lara [from Dr. Zhivago] and Demelza [from Poldark] are out there.

Pertaining to this thread - OP's friend needs to get over herself.  OP mentioned the name first, and they don't even live in the same part of the country.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: PastryGoddess on March 28, 2014, 04:41:34 PM
Just want to add my agreement.  Congratulations on your pregnancy and Charlotte is a lovely name.


Your "friend" needs to find a chair and have a seat.  You are pregnant, she is not. So basically she has made your pregnancy choices all about her.  Really?  Really?

This conversation is a gift, you now know more about her than you did before.  Use that information wisely.

The bolded above is the best thing I've read all day. Stealing it for future use.

If someone is being especially stupid, that chair can be expanded to a: loveseat, chaise, couch, or sectional. :)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: citadelle on March 28, 2014, 04:44:36 PM
This thread reminds me of this one: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=130784.0
About an adult cousin taking the OP's name!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Aquamarine on March 28, 2014, 05:21:46 PM
Someone needs to grow up.  No matter what she names her child, other people will have that same name.  Unless she is going to go the Ashleeighe Iamauneeke Snewphlake route.

Do not discuss baby names with people, tell them it's still under discussion and the list is long.  Otherwise everyone will have an opinion and it will get very tiresome, very soon.  This is not a discussion others need to be involved with unless you chose to include them.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: gmatoy on March 28, 2014, 07:12:24 PM
My grandmother had three daughters. Each daughter had a granddaughter with a very popular name. The same popular name. However, they all have different middle and last names and have not ever been together. Still my grandmother had three great-granddaughters with the same first name. Cool, huh? (We all think so, anyway!)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Poppea on March 29, 2014, 12:07:02 PM
  My best friend of 15 years, who is NOT pregnant and has only expressed a desire to start a family since I told her we were expecting,

Well...it's a girl!  We really do love the name Charlotte and have decided that our little one will have that name.  My friend is very upset with me.  She feels like I have "stolen" her name and that I am not considering her feelings.  To be honest, I really hadn't.  My reasons for not picking a different name are:
1. She is NOT pregnant and only recently decided she wanted to be.
2. They live on the opposite side of the US and it's not like our children will grow up spending lots of time together.
3. Charlotte is a VERY common name.  It's not like I have picked a unique family name from her family...she just likes it.
4. They may never have children and if they do, they may end up with only boys.  I do not like the idea of renaming my child because she might have one.

I don't think your friends issue is really with the baby's name at all.  To me it looks like she may be trying to compete with and control you.  She's your BFF of 15 years, yet she's trying to upset you about a baby's name?  No interest in kids until you're pregnant? 

Has she always been like this?  If not maybe something else is going on with her emotionally (Problems in her marriage?  Is she upset because you are moving on to a new stage in you life?  With a child and a spouse she becomes less important to you and this is her way of proving that her feelings are more important to you than you husband's feelings? 

I's just stick with "I told you what our two top names were and we chose one of them."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: ThistleBird on March 29, 2014, 04:51:26 PM
Apologies if this has been said already--I skipped part of the thread.

I agree with PPs that the friend is out of line, of course.

My other reaction was, "Why is this even a problem?" Especially with the geographical distance, but honestly I think I'd say the same if you lived across a decent-sized town from each other. What is there in this situation that prevents her naming her kid Charlotte?? I'm mystified.

OK, I lied; I'm not really mystified, but I feel like I should be. Of course, it's about our cultural uniqueness fetish. Deity forbid there be anyone with the same name, anyone with the same dress, etc. OK, stopping myself right here, this isn't a forum for rants on cultural tendencies, but my point is: having the same name as someone you don't even see every day is fine. Even if you do see them every day it's not the end of the world. In fact, kids can have a very different perspective on this from adults: it can seem special to share a name with someone, if you find the person likable. As a child I became best friends with a girl in my church because we had the same first name.

I know it creates some confusion--"Which Mary?"--but there are things you can do. My cousin is named after my mother. When they're together, my cousin goes by a seldom-used nickname (actually the Spanish pronunciation of her name) to differentiate. That's just one example.

So I might say this to the friend if I were the OP: "We don't at all mean to prevent you from naming your child Charlotte if you like! It could be pretty special for our children to share a name.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Outdoor Girl on March 29, 2014, 05:26:57 PM
My coworker and his wife had their second son at a hospital 30 minutes north of town, in her home town.  Her roommate was from hometown.  Roommate named her son the name they had picked out.  So they went with their second choice.  I thought it was kind of weird, seeing as the kids wouldn't be going to the same school, even when they hit high school.  My coworker agreed with me but acquiesced to his wife's wishes.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Nemesis on March 29, 2014, 06:15:03 PM
Actually, this baby-naming issue reminds me somewhat on my own situation.

Years ago, I was dating someone very seriously and we were discussing marriage. I broke up with him after I realised that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life with him. Anyway, he has a brother who was dating a girl named Michelle. They eventually got married.

9 months ago, the pregnant me chose the name "Michelle" for my second child. My mother was appalled because Michelle was the name of my ex bf's brother's wife. Whom we never see anymore since the breakup. I looked at her and said "No, Michelle is the name of your second grandchild". The conversation ended there and she never brought it up again throughout the rest of my pregnancy even though she pursed her lips every time I called Michelle's name.

Now that Michelle is 7 months old, she no longer thinks of my ex-bf's brother's wife every time we call out her name. No, the face on the name "Michelle" is now this little baby girl.

It's not a problem unless you make it a problem. Your friend thinks of a little girl who looks like her and calls her "Mommy" every time she thinks of the name "Charlotte". The dream is broken when she imagines this "Charlotte" calling you "Mommy" instead.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: miranova on March 29, 2014, 06:27:08 PM


It's not a problem unless you make it a problem.

Exactly.

I knew two sisters who were pregnant at the same time, loved the same name, and named their daughters the same thing.  They lived in the same town and the two girls ended up in the same school in the same 2nd grade class.  So there were two Paige's in the same class, big deal.  Both mothers got to choose the name they loved, and everyone was happy.  The end.

There is no such thing as stealing a name, and it's only an issue if someone decides to make it one.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Coralreef on March 29, 2014, 08:03:00 PM
1 - Congrats on the new baby girl!
2 - I just love the name Charlotte.  I had a nice cousin with that name.
3 - Your friend doesn't have a strangle hold on the name.  So I agree with the other posters.  Name your baby what you want. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: GrammarNerd on March 29, 2014, 11:32:46 PM
 When naming son #2, it seemed like whatever I suggested, DH didn't like.  I suggested one name and he said no b/c it was the name of a son of some random business associate.  Huh?  So I suggested another name that I'd always liked.  The problem was that it was the same name as our neighbor's son from his first marriage, who would be about 10 years older than our son when he was born.  Neighbor's son lived about 4 states away with the ex-wife, and only visited a few times a year.  Say the kid's name was Gavin.  After the first incident with the random business associate's kid, I said 'look, their Gavin is only with neighbors a few times a year.  I'm not going to discard the name just because neighbor's son has it.  There's an age difference anyway.  It's not a big deal.' 

So we have our own Gavin, who is now 12.  Neighbors ceased being our neighbors when our Gavin was about 4.  And during the few instances where the two Gavins were in the same place at the same time, it was simply, 'Big Gavin' and 'Little Gavin'. 

When I told the neighbors about the name, I just said that I'd always loved the name, and didn't see a problem b/c their Gavin didn't live there full-time.  They were cool.  And it was no problem distinguishing which Gavin either of us were talking about.

As they say, your friend will get over it or die mad.  If she ever brings it up again, I think you should look at her incredulously and ask her if she's STILL mad about that?  Really?  And then point out all of the other things that pps have mentioned.....you mentioned it first, so SHE actually tried to steal it from YOU, she's not even pregnant, etc.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Redsoil on March 29, 2014, 11:48:44 PM
Charlotte is a lovely name.

It almost seems that your friend has a need to mirror your life choices for some sort of validation, given that she's never shown an interest in having children etc. until after you were pregnant etc.  Maybe she's just having a harmless fantasy of how her life could be?  Hopefully, she'll find her own path (and name!) in life. 

Has she always been like this?  How old is she?

Congrats and good luck with everything!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: zyrs on March 30, 2014, 04:07:20 AM
Congratulations on the new baby!

I really don't understand the whole "no one can name their child the same as mine" thing anyway.  I went to school with multiple Michaels, Debbys/Debbies, Annes/Anns, Janets, Donnas, Donalds, Tims and a lot of other names.  Each of them was a unique person whom I remember for their personality. 

Your friend is being silly.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: 123sandy on March 30, 2014, 04:35:15 AM
This is a big pet peeve of mine. You cannot steal a name!! I went to school with two girls who had the same first name, the same last name, they were the same age and they were cousins. It never caused any problems for them.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on March 30, 2014, 04:36:57 AM
Your friend is being ridiculous.  And Charlotte is a lovely (and very popular!) name.

I do understand wanting a fairly unique name.  I find it mildly irritating when somebody has the same name as I do.  I personally wouldn't want my kid to be Emma S forever in class because there are 10 other Emma's in the classroom.  But that means that *I* will eliminate popular names from my list - including some that I love - based on that.   Similarly, DH and I didn't name our son either of two names that we absolutely love, simply because we already have nephews with those names.   My dad commented that he didn't see the problem having two grandsons with the same name, but I personally felt it would make things slightly more complicated seeing my sister and I are close and I want our kids to be close.   There is also one girls name I love that I deliberately have not told anybody (I picked it 7 years ago) so that if somebody else chooses it that will be a coincidence - and therefore not upsetting - rather than feeling I somehow "own" the name.   So I factor these things into my name selection, but I wouldn't dream of trying to dictate what anybody else does or what names they select for their children!

I think in life trying to be happy by controlling what other people do is never going to end well.  I feel a bit sorry for your friend, wasting emotional energy over something so silly!   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TabathasGran on March 30, 2014, 09:10:10 AM
The part that sticks out to me is that you said the name to her first!

It's absolutely not "stealing" for you to decide to use a name you already had in mind.

I would say, "Friend this name was in our top two before I knew you liked it. We may or may not use it. But if we do I hope you understand that this is such a big and important decision for us. And it actually seems sweet to me for us, two very dear friends, to have had the same name in mind without knowing it! To both have little girls with the same first name would be neat, actually."

This is probably not about the name at all, but something more primal going on within her re: your pregnancy and her future hopes.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: The TARDIS on March 30, 2014, 06:34:56 PM
To the OP: Wow, is this friend angry at everyone ELSE on the planet who named their little ones Charlotte? Stick to it, she has no right to dictate YOUR decision regarding YOUR child.

Congrats!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: LifeOnPluto on March 31, 2014, 12:58:19 AM
Generally speaking, I agree that you can't steal a baby name. However, I can think of some factors which might it seem a little "off" to name your baby the same name as someone else. For example:

- If the name is very unique;
- If it's a family/heritage name (and the "stealer" is not part of that family/heritage);
- If the other person had been making it known for years that this was the name they loved;
- If the other person was actually pregnant.

In short, if your friend had been telling you for the last 15 years how she was going to name her future daughter "Penelope Hyacinth" after her grandmother, and she was due to give birth to a baby girl one month after you, I'd say that you were a bit "off" to name YOUR daughter "Penelope Hyacinth".

But in this case? Nope, you're fine. And she is acting rather rudely and strangely to get so upset about it.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: shadowfox79 on March 31, 2014, 02:14:40 AM
This is a big pet peeve of mine. You cannot steal a name!! I went to school with two girls who had the same first name, the same last name, they were the same age and they were cousins. It never caused any problems for them.

And you can never be sure which names will be popular, either.

In primary school there were three Zoes in my class. In high school I was surrounded by Lauras and Jennifers. In my Italian class at university there were four of us with my name. There comes a point when you just have to go with what you like and not worry about it.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: rose red on March 31, 2014, 10:01:35 AM
The OP's friend is being unreasonable (the OP said the name first!), but I think there is a difference with strangers or classmates having the same name and having a friend/relative choose *your* name. I have a friend who was going to name her then unborn daughter Caitlin (she knows that's a popular name and there are thousands of Caitlin's out there), but when she found out her niece, Katie's, full name is Caitlin, she named her daughter something else. I can understand her thinking. Even though your head knows you're nuts, emotions are a different thing.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 01, 2014, 04:32:08 AM
Generally speaking, I agree that you can't steal a baby name. However, I can think of some factors which might it seem a little "off" to name your baby the same name as someone else. For example:

- If the name is very unique;
- If it's a family/heritage name (and the "stealer" is not part of that family/heritage);
- If the other person had been making it known for years that this was the name they loved;
- If the other person was actually pregnant.


Actually, I think for any case, "very unique" would be a necessary condition for it be an off thing to do.

If the name is a a relatively common one, or even not a very rare one, there's always the possibility that the other person thought of the name independently, or before you did. So spending 10 years telling everyone that Charlotte is your choice of baby name doesn't get you exclusive use of it, and announcing it when you're pregnant, or choosing it because your great-grandmother was named Charlotte, doesn't give you exclusive rights on the name either.

But if you told your friend that you were naming your child Ergwart Jones because of a funny story associated with the way you met your spouse, and your friend has her baby three weeks before you do and names it Ergwart Smith, something fishy is going on. Or the chances of someone else independently selecting Charlotte Mathilda Georgette for their child.








Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: cicero on April 01, 2014, 09:19:00 AM
I think "stealing a baby name" is an oxymoron. unless it is some made up name. but Charlotte? it's a ... name. it's a beautiful name. it's a name shared by hundreds of girls/women around the world. it's not something you can steal!

Your friend is unreasonable - even if she were nine months pregnant with a girl and had "called" the name first - it still wouldn't make a difference.

(OK, i admit, i don't *get it* - i don't know why people make such a fuss about it. in my extended family, since it's customary to name babies after deceased ancestors, there are a number of first and second cousins with the same name).

My husband and I are expecting our first child this Summer.  My best friend of 15 years, who is NOT pregnant and has only expressed a desire to start a family since I told her we were expecting, asked me a few months ago if we had thought of names so I told her how we were debating between Charlotte and Catherine for a girl.  (I know, that was my first mistake!). Well she told me that he has her heart set on having a little girl and naming her Charlotte and asked me not to use the name.  I wanted to keep the peace and since we didn't know the baby's gender at the time told her I would keep it in mind.

Well...it's a girl!  We really do love the name Charlotte and have decided that our little one will have that name.  My friend is very upset with me.  She feels like I have "stolen" her name and that I am not considering her feelings.  To be honest, I really hadn't.  My reasons for not picking a different name are:
1. She is NOT pregnant and only recently decided she wanted to be.
2. They live on the opposite side of the US and it's not like our children will grow up spending lots of time together.
3. Charlotte is a VERY common name.  It's not like I have picked a unique family name from her family...she just likes it.
4. They may never have children and if they do, they may end up with only boys.  I do not like the idea of renaming my child because she might have one.

I have told her that I have no problem with both of us having girls with the same name.  I haw pointed out how far apart in geography and possibly age they kids may be and I have even reminded her that the decision is not solely mine and my husband happens to be fond of the name as well.  I haven't pointed out that she isn't now pregnant and may never have a girl because she was very upset on the phone and I didn't want to hurt her more.

My question is, am I a mean person for using a name she loves?  In my situation, would you change the name?
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: DaDancingPsych on April 01, 2014, 11:48:28 AM
I didn't read all the replies, but I agree that your friend is being crazy in thinking that she owns a name. I am sad that she is getting upset, because this could have been a cute name story. "My mom's best friend's daughter is also named Charlotte. It wasn't planned that way, they just both liked the name, but it's a fun connection!"
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: VorFemme on April 01, 2014, 12:14:42 PM
Stealing something usually means that the person who originally had it no longer has it or the use of it...

The name is still out there and can be used - although I can see why first cousins the same age with the same name in the same town MIGHT be confusing - it's happened before in families, I'm sure (there have been several stories about that situation in this very thread).

Non-relatives who have mother who were friends growing up but now live a continent or half a continent away?  Not really an issue.  Besides, when the baby is born, it might be a boy named Charles instead of Charlotte.  It might be a girl who looks much more like an Emma than a Charlotte.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MyFamily on April 01, 2014, 01:18:06 PM
A friend just reminded me of a story.  My friend's mentor's wife (Leah) was killed in a tragic accident - it was horrible - she had kids who were in their late teens, early 20's and then a child as young as only a few months old.  My friend was pregnant at the time, and the name they'd picked out (before the accident) for a girl was Leah.  When their daughter was born, they realized that many people would assume they were naming their daughter after Leah, and they realized it would be very important to her children to be the ones to first name their children after their beloved mother.  So, they picked a different name.  No one asked them to not name their daughter Leah, no one suggested it would be a bad idea, but they didn't even want to potentially hint at causing Leah's family any pain.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: bansidhe on April 07, 2014, 06:55:25 PM
I love the names Angharad, Bronwyn, and Aisling.  Maybe I'll use them for the next cats who show up here.  I wonder how many women named Lara [from Dr. Zhivago] and Demelza [from Poldark] are out there.

<--- That's my Aisling.  :)

I was almost named Lara, but my parents changed their minds at the last minute and I got stuck with Jennifer.  :-\

Pertaining to this thread - OP's friend needs to get over herself.  OP mentioned the name first, and they don't even live in the same part of the country.

POD. Friend is being absurd.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: jackie jormp jomp on April 07, 2014, 09:19:51 PM

...either get over it or die mad.
Oh my lord I am stealing this amazing phrase.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Shopgirl on April 13, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
If she was pregnant with a baby girl I might feel differently but in this case you are good. You mentioned the name to her and she may never have a child or a girl.

My uncle tried to pull this with my mother. She wanted to name my brother after her father but uncle said she couldn't because if he had a boy he was planning on using the name. He wasn't married at the time (and wouldn't be for another 10 years) and never had any children. Glad my mother didn't listen.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Oh Joy on April 13, 2014, 02:36:44 PM
Never mind that 7,418 new baby girls were named Charlotte in the US in 2012 alone http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/popularnames.cgi.  If she's going to be mad at you, she has a lot of other parents to be mad at.   ;)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: camlan on April 13, 2014, 08:45:51 PM
If she was pregnant with a baby girl I might feel differently but in this case you are good. You mentioned the name to her and she may never have a child or a girl.

My uncle tried to pull this with my mother. She wanted to name my brother after her father but uncle said she couldn't because if he had a boy he was planning on using the name. He wasn't married at the time (and wouldn't be for another 10 years) and never had any children. Glad my mother didn't listen.

I have five cousins named "Walter," after my grandfather. The only reason I don't have a brother named Walter is that my parents felt that Dad's oldest brother should be the first to be able to name a son Walter. Dad's other siblings didn't feel the same way, so there were 4 Walters before the eldest brother finally, after 5 girls, had a son. I do have a brother with Walter as his middle name.

We have large family get-togethers. Between the cousins and their children and one in-law, there are 9 men named Walter. We don't have any trouble telling them apart. There's Walt the 3rd, Evil Walt, Slimy Walt, Crazy Walt and Sam (he chose to go by his middle name).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on April 17, 2014, 12:32:55 PM
I have a sister Chris, a male cousin Chris, and an Aunt Kris.  No one is confused and no one felt usurped. 

Tell your friend to get over her bad self.  Seriously.

My cousin Chris married a Kris! 

And my uncle Joseph married a Patricia, same name as his sister.  Their eldest son, about 5 years older than me, was always Pat, same as his mom (and aunt).  Shocked at his wedding to learn that he was Joseph Patrick.  Joseph Patrick III came along two years later. 

You are expecting and she isn't.  She may never need the name.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mime on April 17, 2014, 04:26:54 PM

OP, I'm just repeating others when I say the most amusing thing about this is that YOU first said you were thinking of using the name. It's like you're holding a candy bar, she yanks it from your hand, then insists you can't touch HER candy!  :o

Charlotte is a beautiful name. I have an Aunt (in her 60s) and a SIL (in her 40s) with that name; it seems to be a timeless name without having been over-used.

When it comes to name-stealing, of course I think it isn't even possible, but I completely appreciate the claim if the name is really unusual.

My son is 9 and I didn't know anyone at all with his name when he was born ("Levi", which may be uncommon, but not at all unusual). I was very happy about that. Now his name is growing steadily in popularity and I'm a bit disappointed because I liked it being unique. I never would have tried to prevent a loved-one from using it on their own child, though!

I wonder how a person would feel if someone had a unique naming approach that someone 'stole' rather than the specific name (like "I'm going to name all my daughters after Disney princesses... Tianna, Ariel, and Belle), then someone else, like her SIL, comes along and names her kids Jasmine and Aurora. I can imagine some people getting really territorial!

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: baglady on April 17, 2014, 07:11:54 PM
I'm friends with two couples who both have daughters named Rebecca, born within weeks of each other. Rebecca B. was born in December 1975; Rebecca C. was born in January 1976. The couples are still close friends, and so are the daughters. There were never any hard feelings or accusations of "theft," although it did get a little confusing when the girls were younger and both going by Becky (Rebecca B. is Becca now). Rebecca B.'s parents took to calling Becky C. "B.C." She still answers to it.

Both families have been volunteering for years at a local music festival. One year, all the junior members of one of the volunteer crews -- except one -- were named Becky: two of them were my friends' daughters. They became known as "The Beckys," and the one who wasn't Becky would answer to the name.

My name is Beverly, and I have a sister named Linda and a brother named Michael. I was married to a Michael whose mom's name is Linda. Bagman's ex (we're friendly) is Linda and has a sister named Beverly and a brother named Tom. Bagman also has a brother named Tom, and in addition to his current girlfriend being named Beverly (me), his high-school sweetheart (also still friends) is also a Beverly (he refers to her as Bev the First). Oh, and I share my name with a late aunt -- for a while there when I was younger we were Big Beverly and Little Beverly.

My current circle of friends is awash in Daves, Sues and Gregs.

This is just what happens with common, classic or popular-with-their-generation names. And I'm not even from a culture where it's common to name children after living or dead relatives. It's not theft; it's "great minds think alike."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Allyson on April 18, 2014, 01:33:31 PM
I agree totally, baglady! that's too funny about the Beckys! I wonder if this "stealing a name" is a relatively modern phenomenon?  From what I've read, "popular" names used to be used for a much larger percentage of the population--so you really might have 20 percent of people named Mary and John. Today I think there's more variation, and much more concern about giving the kid a name that's not too popular.

It's fun to look at different generations/regions and see what names are popular everywhere and which change. Like you I know a ton of Daves, but no Sues or Georges. For me is Chris, Matt, Mike, and Sarah!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Carotte on April 18, 2014, 04:43:58 PM
Today I think there's more variation, and much more concern about giving the kid a name that's not too popular.


SO has a cousin who recently had a baby boy, they wanted something not too popular, they unknowingly choose one that is turning into the top 5 for this year.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: gmatoy on April 18, 2014, 06:45:22 PM
I went to high school with a girl who was "LindaSue" and her parents had friends who name their daughter "Linda Jo". (Not the real names.) The girls were the same age and loved having someone to share their name. And everyone in our circle always said "Linda Jo" because that made it go with "LindaSue" better!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on April 18, 2014, 07:48:18 PM
Sister's first husband was Richard.  His father was Richard.  My grandfather was also Richard, and my younger brother was named after him.  When someone called the house during a family reunion and asked for Richard, Sister answered, "Which one?  We're having a special on Richards today, four for the price of one."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 18, 2014, 09:52:11 PM
I wonder if this "stealing a name" is a relatively modern phenomenon?  From what I've read, "popular" names used to be used for a much larger percentage of the population--so you really might have 20 percent of people named Mary and John. Today I think there's more variation, and much more concern about giving the kid a name that's not too popular.

I think the large scale desire for a 'unique' name is a very modern phenomenon. If you look at baby naming in the US 100 years ago, the top five boys names took up 15% of the names. Add in family naming trends, and clustering inside particular ethnic/religious groups, and you'd get a lot of duplicates meeting each other.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: daen on April 19, 2014, 08:52:15 AM
I wonder if this "stealing a name" is a relatively modern phenomenon?  From what I've read, "popular" names used to be used for a much larger percentage of the population--so you really might have 20 percent of people named Mary and John. Today I think there's more variation, and much more concern about giving the kid a name that's not too popular.

I think the large scale desire for a 'unique' name is a very modern phenomenon. If you look at baby naming in the US 100 years ago, the top five boys names took up 15% of the names. Add in family naming trends, and clustering inside particular ethnic/religious groups, and you'd get a lot of duplicates meeting each other.

I may have mentioned this before, but among the conservative-religion types in my area, there are about a dozen "acceptable" first names for boys, and maybe a dozen and a half for girls. A few generations back, this was even more widespread.

Add in a long-standing tradition of having the firstborn son get the name of the father, and the nextborn(s) frequently being named after the grandfather(s), plus the small number of last names... now when someone mentions "Peter Peters" or "John Klassen," you need more identifying details. Nicknames and middle initials (usually from the father's first name, because middle names aren't given) are common and often necessary.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Allyson on April 19, 2014, 11:47:11 AM
Today I think there's more variation, and much more concern about giving the kid a name that's not too popular.


SO has a cousin who recently had a baby boy, they wanted something not too popular, they unknowingly choose one that is turning into the top 5 for this year.

It's funny how often that happens! I have heard that happen to *so* many people, I wonder if a name somehow subconsciously enters the public consciousness and then starts spreading before people are aware ofit.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 20, 2014, 12:22:05 AM

By the way, if you're interested in baby naming trends, check out this site

http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager

It's for the US only, but you can plot 130 years of popularity for various names, to trace trends.

There has to be some underlying logic behind how names change in popularity - most people don't stop and thing "Wow, everyone's naming their kid Nebuchadnezzar - I think I'll follow the trend!" And different types of names hit popularity at the same time - right now, old fashioned names are very popular for girls (Sophia, Emma, Charlotte, Isabelle etc). 20 years ago it was names of the Ashley/Brittany/Samantha/Amanda variety.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Redsoil on April 20, 2014, 03:48:45 AM
I think with name "trends", people may hear a name and think "Oh, I like that" and choose to name their child by it, unaware that the reason they may have heard it in the first place is because it's gaining in popularity (even though no-one in their circle may have that name or know of someone named such).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on April 20, 2014, 04:09:52 AM
I think with name "trends", people may hear a name and think "Oh, I like that" and choose to name their child by it, unaware that the reason they may have heard it in the first place is because it's gaining in popularity (even though no-one in their circle may have that name or know of someone named such).

I've long held this theory, having observed over the years people constantly picking a name and then complaining everybody else had the same idea!    When you think about it, most names we like simply due to familiarity.  After all, what really is the difference between the sound of Kelly vs. Kully?  Yet one is a common name, the other I just made up (although I assume somebody has it, somewhere, thanks to kre8tiv naming...).    We accept a name because we know it as a name.      So it's plausible that the more people who use a particular name, the more people who then hear it - even just in passing - and it sticks in their mind.   Then you also get all the people all using the same method e.g. all going "I don't want a common name - I know, I'll go with a popular name from 20 years ago instead!" and 1000 other people are thinking the same thing, so all of a sudden there is a resurgence in a classic name that has been dormant for years.    And of course the media inspiration... I've encountered 3 Arya's on playgrounds in the past 2 months alone! All appeared to be between 4-6 years of age.

I picked a girls name 5 years ago and have deliberately never told a soul, apart from DH.   It's not a common name at all, although I've noticed the odd one pop up - presumably inspired by the same source as I!  Will find out on Tuesday if I get to use it later this year!  Of course, perhaps there are 100s of other women holding the same name in reserve for a future daughter, and it will suddenly be hugely popular within a few years.  It's entirely possible!   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Carotte on April 20, 2014, 06:35:19 AM

I picked a girls name 5 years ago and have deliberately never told a soul, apart from DH.   It's not a common name at all, although I've noticed the odd one pop up - presumably inspired by the same source as I!  Will find out on Tuesday if I get to use it later this year!  Of course, perhaps there are 100s of other women holding the same name in reserve for a future daughter, and it will suddenly be hugely popular within a few years.  It's entirely possible!

This winter while working in retail I filed away a lovely "new*" boy name (I was doing gift wrapping and we had tags for gifters to put the names), the recipient of the gift was around 3/5. By the time I get to use it (if I ever do) I'm afraid there will already be hundreds of little Thelio running around anyway. 

*Had never heard of it and there's only a handfull of comments/threads about this name in baby/mother/expecting/parenting forums. For now...

As for trends, it's multi faceted for the media inspiration, there's characters name, actors name, authors... If it's a character in a kid show/book it might gain popularity 20years after, when the kids grow up and become parents themself and remember the name fondly.

In France it started a good ten years ago and I think it's starting to dwindle, but there was a looooot of short/cute names ending in O for boys, Théo, Matéo, Léo, Enzo...
Lots of A for girls, Lou, Léa, Eva, Emma, Zoé...
So one probably brought the others, and in the case of Matéo it was probably a "I like Matthieu (Matthew) but I want something else", a google search later and you get Mathéo, Matéo, Mathis...
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: kherbert05 on April 20, 2014, 09:49:16 AM
One theory I've heard for certain names skyrocketing in popularity is TV/Movies, especially ones that came out of left field. The example I read about was Gage as a first name becoming popular in the 2000s. It was number 147 for the 2000's but wasn't even in the top 200 in the 80's or 90's. It was linked to the popularity of the character John Gage on Emergency (he was usually called by his last name)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mrs_deb on April 20, 2014, 09:58:30 AM
The only real "baby name stealing" story I ever heard was from a woman I knew on a forum.  She was pregnant with a girl and was telling all and sundry that they were going to name the baby something along the lines of Ehrynne.  (Not exactly that, but close enough.)  A normal name when pronounced, but with a totally funky spelling.

A pregnant woman she knew IRL had her baby girl first and named her...Ehrynne.

She was livid.  We heard about that for AGES.  Can't say I blame her, though.

(She ended up naming her baby Madysynne or something like that.)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: baglady on April 20, 2014, 08:02:10 PM
I think what happens sometimes is that TV, movies and literature will give a new "legitimacy" to a name that was previously out of style. If all the Bellas and Charlottes you've ever known are elderly ladies, it's hard to think of those names as suitable for a 21st-century little girl. But then along came the "Twilight" books and movies with a teenage Bella, and the TV show "Good Luck Charlie" with a baby Charlotte, and more people started thinking that those names weren't so "old lady" after all. (Not that there weren't babies being named Bella and Charlotte before they exploded in pop culture, but I think that's what contributed to their surge in popularity.)

The mother of one of the Rebeccas I mentioned upthread grew up in a home with no television. She was on bedrest with the pregnancy and got hooked on a soap opera -- this was her first long-term exposure to TV -- with a principal character named Rebecca. Almost 40 years later, she's not entirely sure whether she picked the name for her daughter because of the soap.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 20, 2014, 09:16:41 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Dream on April 22, 2014, 10:20:44 AM
How dare you steal my baby name?! *grins* Charlotte is my eldest and what excellent taste in names the OP has  ;)

A slightly off topic baby name stealing story. My sister is horrendous, we are fairly sure that she is in narcissist territory but never the less, she is a very 'difficult' person to deal with. Middle brother had a new woman in his life and they found that she was pregnant very early on in that relationship. Trying to bond with sister, SIL decides to privately tell her what they have decided to call the baby. A pretty name, not overly common but hardly rare. The big deal was that this was supposed to be a shared moment between them in order to cement that relationship.

Sister promptly brought home a cat and called it the name that SIL had chosen. Then told everyone that no such conversation took place, she simply didn't remember being told the name... Lesson learnt for SIL.

No you can't 'steal' a name but sometimes people do these things to cause hurt or gain attention.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: baglady on April 24, 2014, 06:06:38 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.

I'm with you on that. My theory is that the cycle is about 100 years long, and I'm still wondering why "Lillian" never made a comeback. It was huge in the 1890s, and it's a beautiful name. I think when an "old lady" name becomes super-popular, it's because a few people started using it to honor an ancestor, or because they read it in a book/heard it in a movie ... then other people started seeing it as an option.

There was an ehellion a while back who was looking for a name for her daughter that wouldn't be too trendy for her generation. I advised her to consider names from the 1920s and '30s -- Dorothy, Shirley, Marilyn, Janice -- because if they do come back into fashion, it won't be for another 10 or 20 years. Her daughter might share her name with some of her peers' children when she grows up, but she won't be one of several Dorothys or Marilyns in her class.

When I was in my early 40s I worked with a Linda in her late 20s. She used to complain about having an "old lady" name. I told her, "That's not an old lady name; it's my sister's name."

She: "How old is your sister?"
Me: "Fifty-three."
She: "That's old!"

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TootsNYC on April 24, 2014, 07:28:44 PM
Actually, according to the Name Voyager at BabyNameWizard.com, Lillian *is* making a comeback. It dropped a lot in the 1920s to almost nothing in the 1950 and 1970s. In 1990s it started rising, and it's still on an upward trend.

I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel. They are *nowhere*.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 24, 2014, 10:21:47 PM
I know quite a number of Lily/Lillys!  I have no idea whether they are short for Lillian or not.  So the name is at least making a comeback in that form!

Your advice about the 1920s/1930s name is interesting.  One side effect might be that, when the names do come into fashion 10/20 years after the child is born, her name will sound "young."  Think of a 60-year-old woman named Jennifer, for example.  It certainly happens, but we associate Jennifer with the 70s and early 80s, so when we hear "Jennifer," we think of a 30-something or 40-year-old.  So it might make her sound youthful.  :)  The trick would be picking the right name, though.  Some names from a time period come back and some don't.  Some names *sound* like they came from a time period, but they weren't actually as common as we think then (think "Ava" and "Sophia.")
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: LifeOnPluto on April 25, 2014, 12:51:19 AM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on April 25, 2014, 02:03:59 AM
The only real "baby name stealing" story I ever heard was from a woman I knew on a forum.  She was pregnant with a girl and was telling all and sundry that they were going to name the baby something along the lines of Ehrynne.  (Not exactly that, but close enough.)  A normal name when pronounced, but with a totally funky spelling.

A pregnant woman she knew IRL had her baby girl first and named her...Ehrynne.

She was livid.  We heard about that for AGES.  Can't say I blame her, though.

(She ended up naming her baby Madysynne or something like that.)

Is that meant to be pronounced as Erin? It took me a while to work that out (if so). I never understand why people take perfectly normal and nice names and give them such a weird spelling. Frankly, 'Ehrynne' just looks ridiculous, as does Madysynne.

In an effort to be 'unique' ::) there were 5 girls at my son's primary school called Tamika, all with different spellings - Tymmekka, Timika, Tammika, Tamyka, and Tamika. I used to see their names regularly on the tuckshop lunch order bags. For some reason most of them used to forget to put their surnames on, so I guess at least having a 'unique' name/spelling came in handy in that regard. ::) (All were pronounced t-mee-ka).

I know quite a number of Lily/Lillys!  I have no idea whether they are short for Lillian or not.  So the name is at least making a comeback in that form!

We have 3 Lily's in our family alone, aged 4, 16 and 90+, and it seems to be quite a common name in the primary school age groups around here.

I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel.

I hope not...
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on April 25, 2014, 02:15:40 AM

By the way, if you're interested in baby naming trends, check out this site

http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager

That was an interesting site. My own name was somewhat popular in most of the UK (mainly in the upper classes for some reason) and Australia/NZ a few decades before I was born, and a decade or so after, and is starting to make a bit of a comeback now, but has always been virtually unheard of in the US.

OTOH, my sister's (Welsh) name is virtually unheard of/used here (Aust), but has always been very popular in the US. I get a buzz out of buying her personalised stuff when I visit the US. ;D :P
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Margo on April 25, 2014, 04:49:08 AM
I'm in the UK and have heard of several 'Mabel's, although fewer than some of the other 'old fashioned' names.

Children of people I know include Ada, Maisie, Anna, Arthur, Harry, Charlotte, Edward and Emily, and more than one Daisy

My elder sister was named after our grandmother, but it turned out that her name (and her 2 middle names) were 3 of the top 10 girl's names for the year she was born. Which is partly why I ended up with a name which is very unusual for someone my age - I have *never* met anyone who shares it who is not either 50 years older than me, or about 30 years younger. (My mother tells a story of being in a supermarket when I was quite small. I was picking things off the shelves after being told not to, so got a very stern, "[MyName] put that back AT ONCE" from my mother. At which point an elderly lady further up the aisle looked very guilty, and promptly fished several items out from under her coat and put them back on the shelves - whether she then gave up on shoplifting, of course, we don't know.

I went through a period of not liking my name because it was unusual (I was bullied, and it was one of the many things that was used by the bullies) but I've grown to like it.

(and the one time, when I was a child, that we found something in a shop with my name on it, my parents bought it for me with no argument, as it was so unusual. It was a rather nice hand made mug, and I had it for *years*

Some names just turn out to be popular. My younger sister's partner has the same name (and uses the same shorter form of it) as my brother, and my elder sister's brother in law has the same name, too, so we had three of them in wedding party at my sister's wedding.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: I'mnotinsane on April 25, 2014, 05:45:00 AM
The only real "baby name stealing" story I ever heard was from a woman I knew on a forum.  She was pregnant with a girl and was telling all and sundry that they were going to name the baby something along the lines of Ehrynne.  (Not exactly that, but close enough.)  A normal name when pronounced, but with a totally funky spelling.

A pregnant woman she knew IRL had her baby girl first and named her...Ehrynne.

She was livid.  We heard about that for AGES.  Can't say I blame her, though.

(She ended up naming her baby Madysynne or something like that.)

Is that meant to be pronounced as Erin? It took me a while to work that out (if so). I never understand why people take perfectly normal and nice names and give them such a weird spelling. Frankly, 'Ehrynne' just looks ridiculous, as does Madysynne.

In an effort to be 'unique' ::) there were 5 girls at my son's primary school called Tamika, all with different spellings - Tymmekka, Timika, Tammika, Tamyka, and Tamika. I used to see their names regularly on the tuckshop lunch order bags. For some reason most of them used to forget to put their surnames on, so I guess at least having a 'unique' name/spelling came in handy in that regard. ::) (All were pronounced t-mee-ka).

I know quite a number of Lily/Lillys!  I have no idea whether they are short for Lillian or not.  So the name is at least making a comeback in that form!

We have 3 Lily's in our family alone, aged 4, 16 and 90+, and it seems to be quite a common name in the primary school age groups around here.

I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel.

I hope not...

I thought it was Irene  :o
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on April 25, 2014, 06:16:36 AM
Now that you mention it, I can see how it could also be Irene. This is the problem with making up a wacky spelling for a normal name - it's like a lucky dip in hoping third parties pronounce it properly.  Maybe it's actually Jennifer or Margaret.  :P
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Carotte on April 25, 2014, 07:33:32 AM
Now that you mention it, I can see how it could also be Irene. This is the problem with making up a wacky spelling for a normal name - it's like a lucky dip in hoping third parties pronounce it properly.  Maybe it's actually Jennifer or Margaret.  :P

And the same quip every time.

clerk: So, Irene lastname is it?
Ehrynne: Yes, Irene with an H.
clerk: an H?
Ehrynne: yes, and a Y.
Ehrynne: oh, and two N
clerk: Hyrinne?
[and so an for the rest of Ehrynne's life...]

Thinking about it, there's more chances that Hyrinne already exist and I think it's far nicer than Ehrynne.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Outdoor Girl on April 25, 2014, 07:35:43 AM
I know a lady named Wanda in my hometown.  I just took a first aid course for work in my hometown so I could spend a couple of nights with my Dad.  In my class of 14, there were three ladies named Wanda - and none of them the lady I know.  In a relatively small town.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Kariachi on April 25, 2014, 09:02:47 AM
Actually, according to the Name Voyager at BabyNameWizard.com, Lillian *is* making a comeback. It dropped a lot in the 1920s to almost nothing in the 1950 and 1970s. In 1990s it started rising, and it's still on an upward trend.

I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel. They are *nowhere*.

As soon as someone mentioned 'Lillian' I knew I'd be commenting. At the very least I can see it becoming very popular for babies of people in my age range (20's right now). After all, Lillian from Rugrats. Which premiered in 1991, so it also possibly inspired the names of some younger sisters.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on April 25, 2014, 09:02:53 AM
We were living in a very small town (population about 1000) when my sister graduated from high school.  About 30 kids, so about 15 girls.  Of those 15 girls, 5 were named Linda, including my sister.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Morty'sCleaningLady on April 25, 2014, 09:29:16 AM
I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel. They are *nowhere*.

I'm actually really surprised that Gertrude hasn't yet.  With the adorable nickname of Trudy, it's so darn cute!  (In the television show Monk, his deceased wife was Trudy.  I thought that might spark some interest.)  I also love Agatha and Agnes.  Little Aggies could go to Texas A &M and be Homecoming Queens. 

And someone mentioned older Jennifers.  One of my friends from school (roughly 40) was named Jennifer after her Grandmother.  Grandma Jenny is in her 80s now.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: rose red on April 25, 2014, 09:35:01 AM
This is reminding me of the show Designing Women with Julia saying someday most grandmothers will have the names Heather and Ashley, but then again, their children/grandchildren will probably be named Martha or Bernice*

*Those are not the names; I forget what old-fashioned names she mentioned.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: bansidhe on April 25, 2014, 01:15:30 PM
And someone mentioned older Jennifers.  One of my friends from school (roughly 40) was named Jennifer after her Grandmother.  Grandma Jenny is in her 80s now.

A friend of mine lost his elderly mother last year and her name was Jennifer. Must have been odd to have been a Jennifer and not have run into umpteen dozen others all the time, at least in her younger days.

I am also a Jennifer, but at 50, I'm a bit older than most of them.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 25, 2014, 02:08:43 PM
I get very eye-rolly at anyone who does this with baby names.  Well, with the exception being I wouldn't use a name if a friend had lost a child with that name.  I wouldn't even feel comfortable asking in that case but otherwise? I dunno.  Aside from that, being precious about a name seems kinda silly to me.

Heck at church two of my boys share a name with two others so we usually either use last initials or "Big, middle, little" before their names.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: JenJay on April 25, 2014, 02:17:00 PM
I know a Lillian born in '99. Since childhood I'd wanted to name DD Lydia but DH vetoed it on the grounds of mental association. Thanks a lot, Beetlejuice.

On names with common pronunciations but different spellings, I once encountered an "Emily" spelled Emmaleigh.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mrs_deb on April 25, 2014, 04:32:16 PM

The only real "baby name stealing" story I ever heard was from a woman I knew on a forum.  She was pregnant with a girl and was telling all and sundry that they were going to name the baby something along the lines of Ehrynne.  (Not exactly that, but close enough.)  A normal name when pronounced, but with a totally funky spelling.

A pregnant woman she knew IRL had her baby girl first and named her...Ehrynne.

She was livid.  We heard about that for AGES.  Can't say I blame her, though.

(She ended up naming her baby Madysynne or something like that.)

Is that meant to be pronounced as Erin? It took me a while to work that out (if so). I never understand why people take perfectly normal and nice names and give them such a weird spelling. Frankly, 'Ehrynne' just looks ridiculous, as does Madysynne.


Yes, Ehrynne was supposed to be pronounced Erin.  And Madysynne was pronounced "Madison".  (Don't quote me - I'm not positive that these were the exact spellings.)  She just wanted a yooneek way to spell it.  She already had a little boy, and for the life of me I cannot remember what his name was.  It was unusual, but I don't remember it being a really weird spelling.

That said, apparently none of you were on that forum all those years ago because I was afraid someone would write, "Oh my gosh!  You're talking about <woman's name>, aren't you?!" :-)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on April 26, 2014, 04:33:07 AM
I was thinking about this further, and realised how much truth there is to the name cycles.    It's not that I don't like some of the "older" names or that I think they sound "old" - I just don't want my child named after my mother, or my friend's mother, or that boss I had at that job I hated, or DH's Aunty.     So names that were common in previous generations I'm more likely to have encountered in my life already and possibly have negative connotations from.    Actually, there is one girls name I *loved* for years until I met DH who was freshly out of a serious relationship with a horrible woman who had that name.   There is no way he would ever consider it for his child.

So I think the cycles are partly about that too.   Although I don't like many of the currently popular baby names, I can't say I have any particular negative connotations with them because most of them I just don't know anybody with!   I've never met an adult Madison, for example.  So it's more likely DH and I would pick a name from the "current" cycle than a name that was popular in the past 20-50 years and is in use by a relative or coworker who we might not want to have that association with.      Although as names diversify more I wonder if this will become less of a problem over time.    (Then of course there are the names that are *always* popular, because even if I've met one Sarah I hate, I've also met 5 I like, so it's fine either way!)   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: HoneyBee42 on April 26, 2014, 07:25:15 AM
Actually, according to the Name Voyager at BabyNameWizard.com, Lillian *is* making a comeback. It dropped a lot in the 1920s to almost nothing in the 1950 and 1970s. In 1990s it started rising, and it's still on an upward trend.

I wonder if Gertrude will *ever* come back. Or Mabel. They are *nowhere*.

As soon as someone mentioned 'Lillian' I knew I'd be commenting. At the very least I can see it becoming very popular for babies of people in my age range (20's right now). After all, Lillian from Rugrats. Which premiered in 1991, so it also possibly inspired the names of some younger sisters.

I would think the surge in Lily/Lilly might be Harry Potter related.

And somewhere I have a book on baby names that wasn't the typical alphabetical "here's the definition", but put them in lists according to categories (like what sort of image the name conjures up) and also a list of some of the more popular names in a given decade.  Anyway, one of the chapters was the 100 year cycle, and that some names do frequently come back.  (That was Beyond Jennifer and Jason, although it's been re-written a couple of times since.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: cutejellybeen on April 27, 2014, 07:41:27 AM
Hubby and I are trying to come up with a baby name for our daughter that isn't in the top 10. its hard as all the names I've loved for years are now very trendy.

We joke that we will just name the baby Jennifer. I'm a Jennifer as is Hubby's twin sister. So the current Joke is that baby will be Jennifer Last Name the third.  (SIL was not thrilled that I was taking "her" name when I married - I wonder how she'd feel about having a third one around? lol)

My BFF and I both love a lot of the same names. While I wouldnt purposely choose the same name, we've both agreed that if we had one *this is it* name we would just each call our baby the name we love - they would have different middle and last names after all.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 27, 2014, 08:26:04 PM

Re Madison - I believe the popularity of that name came from the movie "Splash" (the character reads it off a Madison Avenue sign).  Splash came out in 1984, so older Madisons would be under 30.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Browyn on April 28, 2014, 07:55:21 AM
When we were planning to have kids we considered Victoria as our "girl" name, after an uncle who had recently passed away.  Then DH cousin (Uncle's daughter) adopted and used the name.  Rather than use the same name we switched to our backup, Rebecca.

We ended up having a boy anyway so not an issue.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: wolfie on April 28, 2014, 01:46:54 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: violinp on April 28, 2014, 01:52:05 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.

But Evelyn for a boy and Evelyn for a girl are pronounced differently - EE - vuh - lin for a boy and EH - vuh - lin for a girl. Sure, I wouldn't name my son Evelyn, but I wouldn't think the boy named Evelyn was a girl, because of the pronunciation.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Kimberami on April 28, 2014, 02:05:22 PM
My 10 year old DD's nickname is Lulabelle (Lu for short).  I'm not sure why I started calling her that, but it really suits her.  We were in a store once, and I said "Lulabelle, please grab that for me." A woman and her elderly mother stopped short and gaped at me.  Elderly mother's name is Lulabelle.  :)  I did have to explain that my daughter's name is actually something else. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: PastryGoddess on April 28, 2014, 02:07:57 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.

But Evelyn for a boy and Evelyn for a girl are pronounced differently - EE - vuh - lin for a boy and EH - vuh - lin for a girl. Sure, I wouldn't name my son Evelyn, but I wouldn't think the boy named Evelyn was a girl, because of the pronunciation.

People can't pronounce John or Sarah correctly, so how on earth are you going to make sure they pronounce Evelyn correctly based on gender. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: wolfie on April 28, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.

But Evelyn for a boy and Evelyn for a girl are pronounced differently - EE - vuh - lin for a boy and EH - vuh - lin for a girl. Sure, I wouldn't name my son Evelyn, but I wouldn't think the boy named Evelyn was a girl, because of the pronunciation.

If I say the name Evelyn written down I would assume it is a woman and it is pronounced EH-vuh-lin. If it was a male I wouldn't know it was actually pronounced differently until he corrected me. Actually I would be very surprised if a male answered and corrected me - it would go into the "boy called sue" idea for me.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 28, 2014, 02:27:21 PM
My brother and his best friend had wives pregnant at the same time...

Mrs BF and SIL were due about the same time and long before she ever said she was pregnant my bro & SIL had the name Justin picked out.  I worked at a print shop and we had the artwork in place to be "Just In Time" as a front cover for the announcement weeks before the expected birth.

BF's wife was expecting a girl and they had a feminine type name chosen.  Well as fate would have it Mrs. BF delivered first and surprise, surprise it was a boy... they had announcements printed elsewhere with the "Just In Time" theme.  It was the end of the friendship.

My brother and sil weren't really mad about the same name, but we were all furious about the theft of their plan for the announcement theme.  Not that "just in time" is an original idea from our family - it was that they could sneak in and rip it off and act like it had been their idea the whole time. 

Our family's thinking was that if they will stoop to steal this - what else might they feel free to take later?

   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Tea Drinker on April 28, 2014, 04:07:17 PM
The only Evelyn I know is a girl who pronounces it "Ee-vuh-lin." This may be because she lives in Montreal and is being raised bilingually in English and French.

But it means that if someone refers to "my friend 'Evelyn'" and pronounces it with a long e, I won't assume their friend is male. If you need to indicate gender, use pronouns or otherwise make it explicit: "I met a man named Evelyn last week" or "my friend Evelyn said she'd come over on the weekend."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: violinp on April 28, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
The only Evelyn I know is a girl who pronounces it "Ee-vuh-lin." This may be because she lives in Montreal and is being raised bilingually in English and French.

But it means that if someone refers to "my friend 'Evelyn'" and pronounces it with a long e, I won't assume their friend is male. If you need to indicate gender, use pronouns or otherwise make it explicit: "I met a man named Evelyn last week" or "my friend Evelyn said she'd come over on the weekend."

I was thinking primarily of Evelyn Waugh, the author of Brideshead Revisited, so that probably colored my perception of the name and its different pronunciations.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 28, 2014, 04:38:14 PM
I forget if I've posted about this before, but I find the names of the Magic School Bus kids fascinating.  Arnold, Wanda, Dorothy Ann, Phoebe... all very old-fashioned names that don't really fit, especially as the look of the cars, clothes, and the date of the show all seem 90s.  Some of the kids have names that are a little less dated (Tim, Keesha, Carlos), though.

I think Ceallach has a great point, that it's not just that the names are "dated," but that you tend to know people with those names and that brings a lot of baggage.  Whereas names from dead generations just don't have as much to them.  And then, of course, newer, untried names have less baggage as well.

HoneyBee, I think you have a good point about Lily/Lilly being Harry Potter related, too.  I think it's a combination of it being the "right sort" of name along with the Harry Potter reference.  While there might be a *slight* uptick in Hermiones, Albuses, etc., I think you're more likely to see Lily, Harry, and James become more popular, because they fit the modern style.  I personally love the name Henry and would love to use it for a child.  Possibly Henry Aaron.  Called Hank.  :)  Obviously not named after Harry Potter...

Redneck Gravy, I'm curious... did the BF/wife also name their child "Justin," or did they just use the theme, when it would have been so perfect for your brother's child who was actually being named Justin?

In reference to the OP, I feel like I'm seeing Charlottes everywhere nowadays!  I wouldn't mind having a Charlotte myself.  :)  My husband prefers Lavinia, also a name from Downton Abbey.  :)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on April 28, 2014, 06:06:30 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.
I only know of one.  Douglass was a girl's name in Renaissance England, but it apparently fell out  of favor altogether and disappeared from the name pool.  In the mid-19th C  Douglas cropped up as a boy's name, from the custom of turning the mother's maiden name into a given name for her son.  (Or, in case of US Civil War veterans, the name of one's commanding officer.) 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 28, 2014, 08:50:44 PM
As far as older names reminding one of someone else.  My dearest friend shares a first name with one of my late great-aunts.  Let's say "Marilla".  Aunt Marilla was quite a nice lady but very conservative, prim and proper.  Kinda like Marilla Cuthbert, really, or perhaps a mix between her and Rachel Lynde. 

Aunt Marilla also did NOT like when people pronounced "Aunt" so that it sounded like the insect and refused to answer if someone used that to refer to her.  Any correspondence I ever received from her was always addressed to me as Mrs. Husbandsname.  And nothing wrong with it at all but that as a kid I just had a hard time relating to her, though she did like me quite a bit, probably because I was a quiet child.

Then I met my friend and thought "Whoa, you're nothing like any Marilla I've ever known!" My friend is a free spirit, imaginative, mischievous, fiercely independent and calls herself an "old hippie" and still dresses like one. :) I often say I'm the Ethel to her Lucy. :)  In fact we started calling each other by the names of our fanfiction OC's partly because I kept slipping and calling her by her character's name because it sounded more like "her" than Marilla did.  She didn't mind, either.

In fact she's admitted she doesn't really like her first name on its own but does like being called by her first and middle name together like her Mama did.  Or a shortened form of her first name as DH uses for her.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 28, 2014, 10:02:06 PM

I only know of one.  Douglass was a girl's name in Renaissance England, but it apparently fell out  of favor altogether and disappeared from the name pool.  In the mid-19th C  Douglas cropped up as a boy's name, from the custom of turning the mother's maiden name into a given name for her son.  (Or, in case of US Civil War veterans, the name of one's commanding officer.)
[/quote]

Interesting. I did a quick search on this

For Boy -> Girl there's a whole lot - Alexis, Addison, Ashley, Allison, Aubrey, Avery, Bailey, Beverly, Blair, Cassidy, Evelyn, Hilary, Kelly, Kelsey, Kennedy, Kim, Lauren, Leigh, Lesley, Lindsay, Lynn, Madison, Meredith, Morgan, Robin, Shannon, Sandy, Shelly, Stacy, Sydney, Taylor, Vivian, Whitney, Tracy.

For Girl -> Boy, very few. Examples are Jean and Frankie - the first is a male name in France, while the second, as a short for Francesca or Frances, has fallen out of favour for girls more than it's risen in popularity for boys.

There are a fair number of unisex names, particularly when you include sound-alikes (Aaron/Erin, etc) and names which were originally nicknames that came from both male and female names (Bobby, Chris, Jo(e), Toni/Tony.

There are also cultural cross-confusions. In English, you get the female Danielle and Nicola and the male Daniel and Nicholas. In Spanish, the male is pronounced Danielle but spelled Daniel, and the female is Daniella, while in French, Nicholas is pronounced Nicola (both cases are friends of mine).  I also know Chinese men with English names of Bambi and Hope, which is a somewhat different story.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Poppea on April 28, 2014, 10:15:59 PM

I only know of one.  Douglass was a girl's name in Renaissance England, but it apparently fell out  of favor altogether and disappeared from the name pool.  In the mid-19th C  Douglas cropped up as a boy's name, from the custom of turning the mother's maiden name into a given name for her son.  (Or, in case of US Civil War veterans, the name of one's commanding officer.)

Interesting. I did a quick search on this

For Boy -> Girl there's a whole lot - Alexis, Addison, Ashley, Allison, Aubrey, Avery, Bailey, Beverly, Blair, Cassidy, Evelyn, Hilary, Kelly, Kelsey, Kennedy, Kim, Lauren, Leigh, Lesley, Lindsay, Lynn, Madison, Meredith, Morgan, Robin, Shannon, Sandy, Shelly, Stacy, Sydney, Taylor, Vivian, Whitney, Tracy.

For Girl -> Boy, very few. Examples are Jean and Frankie - the first is a male name in France, while the second, as a short for Francesca or Frances, has fallen out of favour for girls more than it's risen in popularity for boys.

There are a fair number of unisex names, particularly when you include sound-alikes (Aaron/Erin, etc) and names which were originally nicknames that came from both male and female names (Bobby, Chris, Jo(e), Toni/Tony.

There are also cultural cross-confusions. In English, you get the female Danielle and Nicola and the male Daniel and Nicholas. In Spanish, the male is pronounced Danielle but spelled Daniel, and the female is Daniella, while in French, Nicholas is pronounced Nicola (both cases are friends of mine).  I also know Chinese men with English names of Bambi and Hope, which is a somewhat different story.
[/quote]

"Jean" has been a male French name forever.  "Jeanne/Jean" has been a female French name just as long.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TeamBhakta on April 28, 2014, 11:23:51 PM
My brother and his best friend had wives pregnant at the same time...

Mrs BF and SIL were due about the same time and long before she ever said she was pregnant my bro & SIL had the name Justin picked out.  I worked at a print shop and we had the artwork in place to be "Just In Time" as a front cover for the announcement weeks before the expected birth.

BF's wife was expecting a girl and they had a feminine type name chosen.  Well as fate would have it Mrs. BF delivered first and surprise, surprise it was a boy... they had announcements printed elsewhere with the "Just In Time" theme.  It was the end of the friendship.

My brother and sil weren't really mad about the same name, but we were all furious about the theft of their plan for the announcement theme.  Not that "just in time" is an original idea from our family - it was that they could sneak in and rip it off and act like it had been their idea the whole time. 

Our family's thinking was that if they will stoop to steal this - what else might they feel free to take later?
 

I think your brother & his wife overreacted. I recall several past short stories in Readers Digest about people naming their new baby some variant of Justin Time. Also, Southerners may remember the old Justin Thyme / Ford car commercials; I think my area's version included something like "Come on over to Ford and you'll be Justin Thyme"
http://youtu.be/Ih2NkrvT5pc
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Redneck Gravy on April 29, 2014, 10:01:34 AM
My brother and his best friend had wives pregnant at the same time...

Mrs BF and SIL were due about the same time and long before she ever said she was pregnant my bro & SIL had the name Justin picked out.  I worked at a print shop and we had the artwork in place to be "Just In Time" as a front cover for the announcement weeks before the expected birth.

BF's wife was expecting a girl and they had a feminine type name chosen.  Well as fate would have it Mrs. BF delivered first and surprise, surprise it was a boy... they had announcements printed elsewhere with the "Just In Time" theme.  It was the end of the friendship.

My brother and sil weren't really mad about the same name, but we were all furious about the theft of their plan for the announcement theme.  Not that "just in time" is an original idea from our family - it was that they could sneak in and rip it off and act like it had been their idea the whole time. 

Our family's thinking was that if they will stoop to steal this - what else might they feel free to take later?
 

I think your brother & his wife overreacted. I recall several past short stories in Readers Digest about people naming their new baby some variant of Justin Time. Also, Southerners may remember the old Justin Thyme / Ford car commercials; I think my area's version included something like "Come on over to Ford and you'll be Justin Thyme"
http://youtu.be/Ih2NkrvT5pc

They named their child Justin and used the Just In Time theme - mailing the announcements to many of their same friends. 

some PP asked about this - yes they used the same name.  It kinda reminded me of someone copying your test answers after being too lazy to study.  Or stealing your "project" idea for class because they weren't going to put any effort into coming up with an idea of their own. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TeamBhakta on April 29, 2014, 03:37:36 PM
Quote

They named their child Justin and used the Just In Time theme - mailing the announcements to many of their same friends. 

some PP asked about this - yes they used the same name.  It kinda reminded me of someone copying your test answers after being too lazy to study.  Or stealing your "project" idea for class because they weren't going to put any effort into coming up with an idea of their own.

Not on par with stealing someone's project idea at all. What if I named a baby Hannah, nicknamed her Hannah Banana & had monkey / banana themed announcements ? And then a friend used the same well known nickname & theme for their own announcements ? It wouldn't be copying, just a case of several people using a well known idea.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Twik on April 29, 2014, 04:19:04 PM
To be honest, I don't particularly care for the "Justin Time" theme. It makes me think that the baby was named for the theme, not the other way around. However, that's just my particular taste.

More to the point, this seems to be a very small thing to break up a true friendship over. Who cares about the theme on a birth announcement a month after they go out? It wasn't even a *particularly* original idea. And it's not exactly plagiarizing one's doctoral thesis. There's no grade given for birth announcements. People just say, "Oh, the Thingummys had a kid. Name's Justin - sounds nice." and throw them out.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: yokozbornak on April 29, 2014, 05:02:21 PM
Quote

They named their child Justin and used the Just In Time theme - mailing the announcements to many of their same friends. 

some PP asked about this - yes they used the same name.  It kinda reminded me of someone copying your test answers after being too lazy to study.  Or stealing your "project" idea for class because they weren't going to put any effort into coming up with an idea of their own.

Not on par with stealing someone's project idea at all. What if I named a baby Hannah, nicknamed her Hannah Banana & had monkey / banana themed announcements ? And then a friend used the same well known nickname & theme for their own announcements ? It wouldn't be copying, just a case of several people using a well known idea.

I disagree with this to a certain extent.  One of my close friends and I were pregnant at the same time and ended up naming our babies the same first name.  My DD was born first and we named her.  They hadn't decided on a name at that point, but she came to me and said they love the name we chose and wanted to name their daughter that.  Of course, I didn't mind because I don't own they name, but I did appreciate the courtesy of her telling me beforehand.  I would bet that Redneck Gravy's family members probably would have been okay if they had been told beforehand (even though the baby boy was a surprise it would still be possible), but it does seem underhanded to use the name you know your friends love without giving them a head's up.  Of course, they didn't OWE them, but I just think it would be a courteous thing to do.  They way they handled it would also cause my to distrust them.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: CharlieBraun on April 29, 2014, 09:20:15 PM
I was dating a guy who I will call "John."  Because that was his name.

His dad was John.  And his grandfather.  And great grandfather.  And...and...and...back back back.

His sister had two children - she had named her first son "John" and her second son "Not John."  Or Robert.  Or Seth. 

When he and I were nowhere near to getting engaged - in fact, it was like the second time I met her - she solemnly assured me that I had her permission to name my son John, after that future mythical son's presumed father (her brother), and that she'd only named her son John because:

1) her brother had been so long unmarried that the family suspected he might be gay, and that
2) her son's name was really just a" placeholder"; if her brother did marry and have a "real" son to be named John. they'd start using her son's middle name and leave "John" to the "Real John".

My then boyfriend listened to all of this, nodding approvingly.  It had evidently been discussed.

I can't believe I dated him as long as I did.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on April 29, 2014, 09:52:46 PM
I was dating a guy who I will call "John."  Because that was his name.

His dad was John.  And his grandfather.  And great grandfather.  And...and...and...back back back.

His sister had two children - she had named her first son "John" and her second son "Not John."  Or Robert.  Or Seth. 

When he and I were nowhere near to getting engaged - in fact, it was like the second time I met her - she solemnly assured me that I had her permission to name my son John, after that future mythical son's presumed father (her brother), and that she'd only named her son John because:

1) her brother had been so long unmarried that the family suspected he might be gay, and that
2) her son's name was really just a" placeholder"; if her brother did marry and have a "real" son to be named John. they'd start using her son's middle name and leave "John" to the "Real John".

My then boyfriend listened to all of this, nodding approvingly.  It had evidently been discussed.

I can't believe I dated him as long as I did.

I dunno, it's kind of sweet... in a warped way.   If it's a family tradition that's important to them, it's nice that she is considerate of that rather than saying "Too bad you snooze you lose".   On the other hand, changing her son's name if a future John shows up, by which point John might already be well into school-aged, is definitely a little... odd.    ;D
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: IrishGenes on April 29, 2014, 10:12:45 PM

OP, I'm just repeating others when I say the most amusing thing about this is that YOU first said you were thinking of using the name. It's like you're holding a candy bar, she yanks it from your hand, then insists you can't touch HER candy!  :o

Charlotte is a beautiful name. I have an Aunt (in her 60s) and a SIL (in her 40s) with that name; it seems to be a timeless name without having been over-used.

When it comes to name-stealing, of course I think it isn't even possible, but I completely appreciate the claim if the name is really unusual.

My son is 9 and I didn't know anyone at all with his name when he was born ("Levi", which may be uncommon, but not at all unusual). I was very happy about that. Now his name is growing steadily in popularity and I'm a bit disappointed because I liked it being unique. I never would have tried to prevent a loved-one from using it on their own child, though!

I wonder how a person would feel if someone had a unique naming approach that someone 'stole' rather than the specific name (like "I'm going to name all my daughters after Disney princesses... Tianna, Ariel, and Belle), then someone else, like her SIL, comes along and names her kids Jasmine and Aurora. I can imagine some people getting really territorial!

That is my 12 year old son's name!  We chose it for Biblical reasons (he was almost 'Noah').
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on April 29, 2014, 10:19:38 PM

OP, I'm just repeating others when I say the most amusing thing about this is that YOU first said you were thinking of using the name. It's like you're holding a candy bar, she yanks it from your hand, then insists you can't touch HER candy!  :o

Charlotte is a beautiful name. I have an Aunt (in her 60s) and a SIL (in her 40s) with that name; it seems to be a timeless name without having been over-used.

When it comes to name-stealing, of course I think it isn't even possible, but I completely appreciate the claim if the name is really unusual.

My son is 9 and I didn't know anyone at all with his name when he was born ("Levi", which may be uncommon, but not at all unusual). I was very happy about that. Now his name is growing steadily in popularity and I'm a bit disappointed because I liked it being unique. I never would have tried to prevent a loved-one from using it on their own child, though!

I wonder how a person would feel if someone had a unique naming approach that someone 'stole' rather than the specific name (like "I'm going to name all my daughters after Disney princesses... Tianna, Ariel, and Belle), then someone else, like her SIL, comes along and names her kids Jasmine and Aurora. I can imagine some people getting really territorial!

That is my 12 year old son's name!  We chose it for Biblical reasons (he was almost 'Noah').

Ah yes, the rise of the old testament names over the past decade....  my son has one too (neither Levi or Noah but similar), but we were aware that it's on the increase prior to selecting it.  Given our other name choices were all in the top 25 I was just glad this one was only top 100, and a fairly recent entry!   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: LifeOnPluto on April 29, 2014, 10:34:41 PM
There are also, according to the Baby Name Wizard, cycles.  Names of your mother's generation (for me, Linda, Sue, Debby, Barbara) all sound like your mother-in-law's name, and they make you think of a 50-year-old woman.  Names of your grandmother's generation (for me, Mary, Betty, Dorothy, Shirley) all sound like old lady names.

But you probably never knew your great-grandmother, or at least very little, and not many other people of your great-grandmother's generation.  You may have heard stories about her, and stories from when she was a little girl.  You may romanticize her generation, and earlier than that.  So the names of that generation and earlier (for me, Ruth, Virginia, Elizabeth, Evelyn) don't have as much baggage to them.

Of course, there are names that we like and names that we don't like from those generations, because there are other trends that drive us.  For instance, there's a current trend towards boys' names ending in -n.  Just like Carotte said that in France there's a trend towards boys' names ending in -o.

Girls' names with two syllables (or sometimes three) ending with -a are really popular right now.  Ava, Sophia, Olivia, etc.  Soft letters like s, ph, l, and v.  Lots of k's and m's, too.  But not as many d's, and generally flowing names.  So some women may be choosing old-fashioned, uncommon names, and then finding that Julia, or Sylvia, turns out to have three others of her name in her preschool class, because the other women are of the same generation and they are all being affected by language the same way such that they are also looking for those soft consonants and flowing names with the -a ending.

I want to see "Evelyn" make a comeback as a boy's name. Perhaps the (male) character of Evelyn Napier in Downton Abbey will make it acceptable? Fingers crossed!

In general once a name becomes a girl's name it never moves back to being a boy's name.

But Evelyn for a boy and Evelyn for a girl are pronounced differently - EE - vuh - lin for a boy and EH - vuh - lin for a girl. Sure, I wouldn't name my son Evelyn, but I wouldn't think the boy named Evelyn was a girl, because of the pronunciation.

Yes, I've noticed how on "Downton Abbey" they pronounce Evelyn's name as "EE-vuh-lin". I didn't realise there was a difference in pronunciation according to gender.

And yeah, I always think of the author Evelyn Waugh, so to me, Evelyn is not at all an outlandish name for a boy.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on April 29, 2014, 11:52:44 PM
I was dating a guy who I will call "John."  Because that was his name.

His dad was John.  And his grandfather.  And great grandfather.  And...and...and...back back back.

His sister had two children - she had named her first son "John" and her second son "Not John."  Or Robert.  Or Seth. 

When he and I were nowhere near to getting engaged - in fact, it was like the second time I met her - she solemnly assured me that I had her permission to name my son John, after that future mythical son's presumed father (her brother), and that she'd only named her son John because:

1) her brother had been so long unmarried that the family suspected he might be gay[/color], and that
2) her son's name was really just a" placeholder"; if her brother did marry and have a "real" son to be named John. they'd start using her son's middle name and leave "John" to the "Real John".

My then boyfriend listened to all of this, nodding approvingly.  It had evidently been discussed.

I can't believe I dated him as long as I did.

That's quite horrifying. A person's name is one of the most fundamental things about them. To think they can suddenly just starting calling the boy by something else is beyond any normalcy that I can grasp. And how horrible for the boy to be treated as though he's less worthy than his cousin (presumably) because he's the child of the daughter, not the son. And thinking that because he wasn't married yet he must be gay?  Seriously?  That family sounds really screwed up.

Even though I would never in a million years choose my child's name simply because it's family tradition (it would instantly go to the bottom of my name list), I don't see anything wrong with two cousins having the same first name.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: blarg314 on April 30, 2014, 01:02:54 AM

I dunno, it's kind of sweet... in a warped way.   If it's a family tradition that's important to them, it's nice that she is considerate of that rather than saying "Too bad you snooze you lose".   On the other hand, changing her son's name if a future John shows up, by which point John might already be well into school-aged, is definitely a little... odd.    ;D

I think I'd be more than a bit taken aback to be sitting down with my family boyfriend's early in the dating process and have them discuss how they had decided what I would be naming the children I would be having with him.

A desire to follow a family naming system is definitely something that should be discussed well before marrying or having children, but that's something the potential fiance should be bringing up - "Yes, I want to have kids too. It's important to me that we follow my family's tradition of naming the firstborn son John - how do you feel about that?" is a good start.

I do feel very sorry for little Fake John, who is going to be told at some point that his new cousin is the Real John, and he can't use the name anymore because he's not the firstborn son of the firstborn son.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on April 30, 2014, 07:34:28 AM
DH had a name for a son picked out before we even started dating.  He wanted to name a son for his grandfather and his dad, but use their middle names.  As I didn't have a problem with either name, I went along with it.

I had to laugh a few years ago, as my oldest was born in '01 and this girl asked if he was named after Edward from Twilight. She was disappointed when I said no, as he was born before the series came out and told her he was named for a great grandfather who passed away right as DH and I had started dating. (like a week after, even)

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: nayberry on April 30, 2014, 08:29:45 AM

OP, I'm just repeating others when I say the most amusing thing about this is that YOU first said you were thinking of using the name. It's like you're holding a candy bar, she yanks it from your hand, then insists you can't touch HER candy!  :o

Charlotte is a beautiful name. I have an Aunt (in her 60s) and a SIL (in her 40s) with that name; it seems to be a timeless name without having been over-used.

When it comes to name-stealing, of course I think it isn't even possible, but I completely appreciate the claim if the name is really unusual.

My son is 9 and I didn't know anyone at all with his name when he was born ("Levi", which may be uncommon, but not at all unusual). I was very happy about that. Now his name is growing steadily in popularity and I'm a bit disappointed because I liked it being unique. I never would have tried to prevent a loved-one from using it on their own child, though!

I wonder how a person would feel if someone had a unique naming approach that someone 'stole' rather than the specific name (like "I'm going to name all my daughters after Disney princesses... Tianna, Ariel, and Belle), then someone else, like her SIL, comes along and names her kids Jasmine and Aurora. I can imagine some people getting really territorial!

That is my 12 year old son's name!  We chose it for Biblical reasons (he was almost 'Noah').

Ah yes, the rise of the old testament names over the past decade....  my son has one too (neither Levi or Noah but similar), but we were aware that it's on the increase prior to selecting it.  Given our other name choices were all in the top 25 I was just glad this one was only top 100, and a fairly recent entry!   

myself and my siblings are old testament names, but thats because they liked the names and the fact it tied in was happy coincidence.

ot slightly, the phrase "old testament names" makes me think of seven brides for seven brothers
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on April 30, 2014, 10:14:30 AM
My husband and I each had a favorite girl name that we wanted to use if we had any girls.  It worked out really well that... we both had the *same* favorite girl name.

Of course, now that we have four girls, it might have been nice if one of us had had another favorite, as we're running out of ideas!

I have a friend who has three sons.  Noah, Joshua, and... Colin.  It amuses me, because Colin sort of stands out as being the non-Biblical name.

Of course, I have another friend who has three girls: Madison, Savannah, and Dakota.  I teased her that if she has any more, she'll have to have "Cheyenne."  She laughed and said she and her husband had joked about the same thing... and even needing to use the same name!  (Yes, I know there are other options: Carolina, Georgia, Augusta, etc.)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: CharlieBraun on April 30, 2014, 06:04:36 PM
I was dating a guy who I will call "John."  Because that was his name.

His dad was John.  And his grandfather.  And great grandfather.  And...and...and...back back back.

His sister had two children - she had named her first son "John" and her second son "Not John."  Or Robert.  Or Seth. 

When he and I were nowhere near to getting engaged - in fact, it was like the second time I met her - she solemnly assured me that I had her permission to name my son John, after that future mythical son's presumed father (her brother), and that she'd only named her son John because:

1) her brother had been so long unmarried that the family suspected he might be gay[/color], and that
2) her son's name was really just a" placeholder"; if her brother did marry and have a "real" son to be named John. they'd start using her son's middle name and leave "John" to the "Real John".

My then boyfriend listened to all of this, nodding approvingly.  It had evidently been discussed.

I can't believe I dated him as long as I did.

That's quite horrifying. A person's name is one of the most fundamental things about them. To think they can suddenly just starting calling the boy by something else is beyond any normalcy that I can grasp. And how horrible for the boy to be treated as though he's less worthy than his cousin (presumably) because he's the child of the daughter, not the son. And thinking that because he wasn't married yet he must be gay?  Seriously?  That family sounds really screwed up.

Even though I would never in a million years choose my child's name simply because it's family tradition (it would instantly go to the bottom of my name list), I don't see anything wrong with two cousins having the same first name.

You nailed it.

In my husband's family, there are many first cousins with the same first name.  We use modifiers.  Big Johnny, Little Johnny.  Paul, Paulie, PaulGee, PaulDee.

Interestingly, Big Johnny is called that because he was the first of the cousins with that name - he's 5'5".  Little Johnny is 6', even.


Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: eport on May 01, 2014, 08:49:22 AM
I was dating a guy who I will call "John."  Because that was his name.

His dad was John.  And his grandfather.  And great grandfather.  And...and...and...back back back.

His sister had two children - she had named her first son "John" and her second son "Not John."  Or Robert.  Or Seth. 

When he and I were nowhere near to getting engaged - in fact, it was like the second time I met her - she solemnly assured me that I had her permission to name my son John, after that future mythical son's presumed father (her brother), and that she'd only named her son John because:

1) her brother had been so long unmarried that the family suspected he might be gay[/color], and that
2) her son's name was really just a" placeholder"; if her brother did marry and have a "real" son to be named John. they'd start using her son's middle name and leave "John" to the "Real John".

My then boyfriend listened to all of this, nodding approvingly.  It had evidently been discussed.

I can't believe I dated him as long as I did.

That's quite horrifying. A person's name is one of the most fundamental things about them. To think they can suddenly just starting calling the boy by something else is beyond any normalcy that I can grasp. And how horrible for the boy to be treated as though he's less worthy than his cousin (presumably) because he's the child of the daughter, not the son. And thinking that because he wasn't married yet he must be gay?  Seriously?  That family sounds really screwed up.

Even though I would never in a million years choose my child's name simply because it's family tradition (it would instantly go to the bottom of my name list), I don't see anything wrong with two cousins having the same first name.

You nailed it.

In my husband's family, there are many first cousins with the same first name.  We use modifiers.  Big Johnny, Little Johnny.  Paul, Paulie, PaulGee, PaulDee.

Interestingly, Big Johnny is called that because he was the first of the cousins with that name - he's 5'5".  Little Johnny is 6', even.

One of my dad's cousins is Baby Harry as his dad was Harry. Baby Harry is now an adult and in his 60s-he's still Baby Harry (never Harry).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 01, 2014, 07:16:33 PM
I've known people with naming traditions. With one, all the sons had to have the name William as a first or middle name.  In another, all boys had to have the first name of Charles.   Mostly the sons born into these families end up being called by their middle names.

I considered naming one of my boys Paul for my grandfather and an uncle I am close to but am glad I chose not to as there are really enough Pauls in the family as it is.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: amandaelizabeth on May 01, 2014, 10:08:49 PM
We are sitting here in the office, trying to maker Aaron sound like Erin.  It  must be an accent thing.

Aaron sounds like air ron,
erin sound like err in

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: jedikaiti on May 01, 2014, 10:14:21 PM
If I'm not thinking about it, I will tend to pronounce both as Air-In. Kind of a blend of two, I guess. :-)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Jones on May 01, 2014, 10:31:03 PM
If I'm not thinking about it, I will tend to pronounce both as Air-In. Kind of a blend of two, I guess. :-)

That's how they are both pronounced in my area.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: baglady on May 01, 2014, 10:35:47 PM
If I'm not thinking about it, I will tend to pronounce both as Air-In. Kind of a blend of two, I guess. :-)

I'm friends with a family that has a son named Aaron and an unofficial foster daughter (long story) named Erin. They are known as Aaron Boy and Erin Girl, or just "Boy" and "Girl." Since they are both well into their 20s now, I've taken to calling the latter "Erin Woman."

I hear the difference between the pronunciations of Aaron and Erin, but I hear absolutely no difference between Dawn and Don. I've never met a family that had one of each of those, however.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: amandaelizabeth on May 01, 2014, 10:38:19 PM
Again very different here
Dawn. Sounds like door nn
Don sounds like son but with a d
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Kimberami on May 02, 2014, 06:07:45 AM
I'm from South Carolina.  Don and Dawn sound the same.  Aaron and Erin sound the same, too.  I just asked my Utahan husband, and we said the exactly same thing.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 02, 2014, 06:49:28 AM
I'm from South Carolina.  Don and Dawn sound the same.  Aaron and Erin sound the same, too.  I just asked my Utahan husband, and we said the exactly same thing.

From Maryland, myself and I'd say the same. Don and Dawn sound the same, as do Aaron and Erin.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: acicularis on May 02, 2014, 07:09:35 AM
From Maryland, myself and I'd say the same. Don and Dawn sound the same, as do Aaron and Erin.

Isn't that funny, I'm from Maryland too,  but Don and Dawn do not sound the same to me! (Don has an "ah" sound while Dawn has an "aw" sound like the word "saw"). Aaron and Erin sound the same though. It's led to many confused conversations when one of my kids is talking about someone from school and I think she's talking about Erin when she means Aaron, and vice versa.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: KarenK on May 02, 2014, 07:36:02 AM
Maine weighing in!

Aaron and Erin sound completely different to me. I pronounce Aaron as Air-on, while Erin is Air-in. Also, the first syllable is slightly longer in Aaron.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Outdoor Girl on May 02, 2014, 07:39:57 AM
I know a woman named Dawn.  She was a singer and ended up in the UK for something that included diction lessons.  They went around the circle the first day and introduced themselves.  She said, 'My name is Dahn (Don)'.  Her instructor said, 'No, your name is Dawn.  Say it.'  She tried but couldn't get the difference.

The next day, they went around the circle again.  She told me she wanted to introduce herself as 'Elizabeth' so she wouldn't have to go through it again.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on May 02, 2014, 08:22:03 AM
The Don/Dawn and Mary/Merry/Marry/Murray distinctions are classics for determining differences in dialect.  I remember doing a linguistics project where we had to find somebody who grew up in a different part of the country/world from us, and compare these (and a few others) for which were different and which were the same.  There are *all* sorts of different combinations for which sound the same and which sound different.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: BeautifulDisaster on May 02, 2014, 03:30:18 PM
Thought of this thread today when I read this Miss Manners. It's the second letter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/miss-manners-food-not-to-your-liking-doesnt-need-to-be-announced/2014/02/25/a456ac18-9b3d-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html

The gist of it is, the letter writer has a 6yo son. Her husband's brother, who lives in another country and only sees them once a year, gave his child (who is now a year old) the same name. The letter writer is "devastated", told her sister in law how she feels, seemingly expecting them to change the boy's name. It makes her "so sad" whenever she has to tell her son someone in the family isn't talking to him....once a year.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: twiggy on May 02, 2014, 04:53:52 PM
I have a sister Chris, a male cousin Chris, and an Aunt Kris.  No one is confused and no one felt usurped. 

Tell your friend to get over her bad self.  Seriously.

My cousin Chris married a Kris! 

And my uncle Joseph married a Patricia, same name as his sister.  Their eldest son, about 5 years older than me, was always Pat, same as his mom (and aunt).  Shocked at his wedding to learn that he was Joseph Patrick.  Joseph Patrick III came along two years later. 

You are expecting and she isn't.  She may never need the name.

I have a pretty common name, say Ann. My maiden name was Smith, and my married name is Jones (not really). My brother married Anne last year, and it has been a bit head turning for me to hear Anne Smith again and realize it's not me they're talking about.

Now BIL is engaged to a woman who is also named Ann. When he married this summer, there will be 2 Ann Jones in the family. At least with Bro's wife, she's a Smith and I'm a Jones now
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on May 02, 2014, 06:33:09 PM
Thought of this thread today when I read this Miss Manners. It's the second letter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/miss-manners-food-not-to-your-liking-doesnt-need-to-be-announced/2014/02/25/a456ac18-9b3d-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/miss-manners-food-not-to-your-liking-doesnt-need-to-be-announced/2014/02/25/a456ac18-9b3d-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html)

The gist of it is, the letter writer has a 6yo son. Her husband's brother, who lives in another country and only sees them once a year, gave his child (who is now a year old) the same name. The letter writer is "devastated", told her sister in law how she feels, seemingly expecting them to change the boy's name. It makes her "so sad" whenever she has to tell her son someone in the family isn't talking to him....once a year.
::)  And it would be so difficult, during these family visits, to refer to "Big Johnny" and "Little Johnny"?  ???
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: LifeOnPluto on May 03, 2014, 02:40:25 AM
To my (Australian) ear, Aaron and Erin, and Don and Dawn sound completely different.

But then I tried saying them with an American accent, and yeah, I can see how they'd sound the same.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on May 03, 2014, 02:53:47 AM
No matter how hard I try, I can't make Erin/Aaron sound alike, nor Don/Dawn. (Aussie/NZ here). In my little world:

Don - rhymes with John/Ron/con.
Dawn - rhymes with thorn/corn/morn/Shawn.

Aaron - rhymes with baren/Karen (or basically just Karen without the K).
Erin - rhymes with Kerryn/Merryn (ear-in).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: RingTailedLemur on May 03, 2014, 04:59:09 AM
No matter how hard I try, I can't make Erin/Aaron sound alike, nor Don/Dawn. (Aussie/NZ here). In my little world:

Don - rhymes with John/Ron/con.
Dawn - rhymes with thorn/corn/morn/Shawn.

Aaron - rhymes with baren/Karen (or basically just Karen without the K).
Erin - rhymes with Kerryn/Merryn (ear-in).

UK here, I agree.

However, this discussion does clear up a minor mystery for me.  I attended a lecture about Aaron T Beck's work, and wondered why the (British) lecturer pronounced it "AIR-on" rather than "A [as in apple]-ron".  Looking Beck up, I see that he is American, so I guess he would pronounce it that way.

I also had trouble with Colin Powell, as I would get stuck on pronouncing the first bit of his first name the same as the first bit of "copper".
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on May 03, 2014, 07:45:50 AM
And even in the UK we're not consistent. I would say Aaron is Air-on. If you want it to rhyme with Karen, it's spelled Arron. Different name. And Erin is Air-in.

But I agree with you about Colin Powell.

I've mentioned before, I wince at Caitlin pronounced Kate-Lynn, because where I come from it's Kathleen, or possibly Cashlin. I tell myself it's different other places. I don't know why that one annoys me, when other name variants don't. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: BioformCassie on May 03, 2014, 08:25:31 AM
No matter how hard I try, I can't make Erin/Aaron sound alike, nor Don/Dawn. (Aussie/NZ here). In my little world:

Don - rhymes with John/Ron/con.
Dawn - rhymes with thorn/corn/morn/Shawn.

Aaron - rhymes with baren/Karen (or basically just Karen without the K).
Erin - rhymes with Kerryn/Merryn (ear-in).

U.S. here and to me Shawn rhymes with Don. And Don and Dawn are the same as well.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Allyson on May 03, 2014, 11:54:41 AM
West Coast Canada here and to me John, Shawn, Dawn/Don all rhyme, and Erin and Aaron sound the same. The latter two also rhyme with Karen, Darren etc.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Mary Lennox on May 03, 2014, 12:19:27 PM
Dare I bring up the Sarah/Sara debate?

Sarah - short a, like air --> sair-ra
Sara - long a, sar-ra
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: kckgirl on May 03, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
Sara/Sarah sound the same to me. Dawn/Don only sound slightly different. Aaron/Erin sound the same.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: kherbert05 on May 03, 2014, 12:48:45 PM
Thought of this thread today when I read this Miss Manners. It's the second letter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/miss-manners-food-not-to-your-liking-doesnt-need-to-be-announced/2014/02/25/a456ac18-9b3d-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/miss-manners-food-not-to-your-liking-doesnt-need-to-be-announced/2014/02/25/a456ac18-9b3d-11e3-975d-107dfef7b668_story.html)

The gist of it is, the letter writer has a 6yo son. Her husband's brother, who lives in another country and only sees them once a year, gave his child (who is now a year old) the same name. The letter writer is "devastated", told her sister in law how she feels, seemingly expecting them to change the boy's name. It makes her "so sad" whenever she has to tell her son someone in the family isn't talking to him....once a year.
::)  And it would be so difficult, during these family visits, to refer to "Big Johnny" and "Little Johnny"?  ???
My father and his sister were both little first names - they hated it with a blazing fire of hatred. Especially as they got older. Aunt switched to her middle name. Dad the little didn't get dropped until his father died.


Given the large number of other people with same names in the family that don't cause problems, I don't know why my grandparets did the little thng with their kids.


I do know that suggesting doing that with their kids our grandkids by family or neighbors was quickly stopped. So much so that our neighbors remember it as one of 3 things my father put his foot down about. The others were forbidding the use  of the enny meany minny moe rhyme at our home for racist content, and being the driving force to get a safe hike/bike trail in the neighborhood. (Neighoor wasn't invovlved with the bully problems so doesn't remember those confirtations.)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on May 04, 2014, 02:56:20 AM
To my (Australian) ear, Aaron and Erin, and Don and Dawn sound completely different.

But then I tried saying them with an American accent, and yeah, I can see how they'd sound the same.

This has been a constant source of confusion for me for years (NZer/Aus here).   There are a fair few "Aaron"s in US shows and movies, and I always think "Erin" is a strange name for a girl, forgetting the accent difference.   It makes it fairly confusing when I see character names written down.  "Aaron Hotchner", who's that??   

To add to the confusion, the first time I noticed it was way back when the movie "Bring it On" came out, and the character Aaron (lead character's boyfriend) was a male cheerleader who got some subtle mockery and hints about being effeminate, so that combined with the fact I thought he was called "Erin" confused me.  I thought it was a bit blatant and heavy handed writing, giving him a girls name and having him participate in a "girls" sport!    I wasn't sure at first if they were hinting he was actually a girl! 

I have had a few more US friends since then so I'm a little better at hearing the accent differnce, it still catches me out sometimes though.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Corvid on May 04, 2014, 08:14:23 AM
Erin = Eh rin.
Aaron = AIR on.

And my sister wouldn't have it any other way!

Quote
I've mentioned before, I wince at Caitlin pronounced Kate-Lynn, because where I come from it's Kathleen, or possibly Cashlin. I tell myself it's different other places. I don't know why that one annoys me, when other name variants don't.

Yeah, that's probably because someone READ the name "Caitlin" somewhere without hearing the actual pronunciation and then it became a name of it's own (with many variations of the spelling).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: PastryGoddess on May 04, 2014, 02:07:47 PM
I know a few Caitlin's and it's pronounced kate-lynn.  The name has been around for a while, I'm 30.  I don't think it's going anywhere. In fact that was my mother's second choice of names for me. 

I'm in the US. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Jones on May 04, 2014, 03:11:32 PM
Also in the US, and all "Caitlins" whom I have met pronounced it "Kate-lynn".
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Corvid on May 04, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
Sure, in the U.S. it's pronounced Kate-Lynn, but it's originally an Irish name and that's not how the Irish pronounce it.  It's as if Siobhan became popular in the United States pronounced as See-oh-ban instead of Sheh-vohn.

It may have been around a while now but I'm 54 and didn't start hearing it until some point in the 80s and I'm willing to bet there's not a long history of Caitlins (as Kate-Lynn) in the U.S.  It's a moot point, though.  I agree it isn't going anywhere and it is EVERYWHERE.  It's like the 80s/90s version of Debbie or Susan.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elisabunny on May 04, 2014, 06:32:12 PM
In the last few months, our congregation has welcomed two new babies named Talon.  No word of any feuds yet.  ;)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: JenJay on May 04, 2014, 06:37:34 PM
Erin = Eh rin.
Aaron = AIR on.

And my sister wouldn't have it any other way!

Quote
I've mentioned before, I wince at Caitlin pronounced Kate-Lynn, because where I come from it's Kathleen, or possibly Cashlin. I tell myself it's different other places. I don't know why that one annoys me, when other name variants don't.

Yeah, that's probably because someone READ the name "Caitlin" somewhere without hearing the actual pronunciation and then it became a name of it's own (with many variations of the spelling).

DD met a girl in school named "Aisling". When DD pronounced it "Ash-Lynn", how she'd heard it several times, the girl sneered at her "It's A(like the letter)s-ling!" Really nasty, like DD was stupid. Hey, you can pronounce your own name however you choose but don't treat people badly for knowing the original pronunciation and not assuming you went another way.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on May 04, 2014, 07:34:46 PM
I heard somebody in a fast food place call her daughter Aisling.  Ayz-ling.  I chuckled to myself.

I know how to pronounce Siobhan (we actually considered using it for a middle name for one of our kids), and I *know* how to pronounce Caitlin the Irish way, but at this point it's so long been used in America sounding like "Kate-lynn" that I would automatically assume that's the pronunciation, and I would never use it for a kid intending it to be pronounced like Kathleen or Katleen because everybody would get it wrong.  Would be different if I lived in Ireland.  My dad's family is Irish, but they all have names that are also common American names, nothing uncommonly pronounced.

My church nursery used to have a whole slew of "-ayden" names at one point.  I remember Jaden, Zaden, and Brayden.  There may have also been an Aiden or two, but I don't remember all of them anymore.  I think there were about 5 of them, though, out of maybe 7 boys total.  This was probably about 5 years ago, when the craze was just starting to become noticeable.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: PastryGoddess on May 04, 2014, 07:38:44 PM
Sure, in the U.S. it's pronounced Kate-Lynn, but it's originally an Irish name and that's not how the Irish pronounce it.  It's as if Siobhan became popular in the United States pronounced as See-oh-ban instead of Sheh-vohn.

It may have been around a while now but I'm 54 and didn't start hearing it until some point in the 80s and I'm willing to bet there's not a long history of Caitlins (as Kate-Lynn) in the U.S.  It's a moot point, though.  I agree it isn't going anywhere and it is EVERYWHERE.  It's like the 80s/90s version of Debbie or Susan.

That's about right.  I was born in the 80's and most of the people I know with that name were too. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: JenJay on May 04, 2014, 07:41:25 PM
I heard somebody in a fast food place call her daughter Aisling.  Ayz-ling.  I chuckled to myself.

Yes, that's how this girl scolded DD, with a big emphasis on the "ling". I was trying to think how to explain it, the "y" is perfect.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on May 04, 2014, 08:34:25 PM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   

I've seen Aisling written and alway assumed it was pronounced "ailing" for some reason, although I've read a few times online that it's "Ash-lin" so do know what's technically correct.

It does make it hard for us to be super judgey about you-neek spelling of names though, when people see that in other countries the pronunciation rules differ so much from ours, it's easy to see why they then think they can then do whatever they think makes sense.   Still drives me batty when somebody actually says "We're calling her Mila but pronouncing it Miller!"  because I wonder why they could't just add an extra "L" and save themselves a lot of hassle.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: sammycat on May 04, 2014, 08:44:23 PM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   

POD.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: LifeOnPluto on May 04, 2014, 10:15:31 PM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   

POD.

Same here I always thought Caitlyn was pronounced "Kate-lynn".
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on May 05, 2014, 03:31:07 AM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   


Same here I always thought Caitlyn was pronounced "Kate-lynn".

Well, as Corvid said upthread, since about the 80s, Kate-Lynn seems to have taken over, and Kathleen seems to be out of favour in any spelling. Oddly, this was being discussed recently in the UK press with the impending centenary of the birth of Dylan Thomas - it was being pointed out that commentators were referring to his wife as Kate-Lynn whereas she pronounced it Kathleen.

It was also being mentioned that Thomas himself deliberately shifted the pronunciation of his name towards the anglicised Dillon and away from the Welsh Dullan that he had used as a child.

I imagine that my irritation at Kate-Lynn  -  I didn't say it was reasonable,  just that it annoys me  -  was shared previously by some people over the shifts of Evelyn, Sidney, Valentine etc from male to female.

When the Younger Chick was born,  my parents were concerned that we had given him the name of a cartoon character of their youth,  and weren't we worried that he would be teased about it? We had to point out that nobody under 40 had ever heard of that cartoon. Times change (she said with stunning lack of originality.)

If you want a name well provided with traps for the unwary, try Bridget. Brid is a variant in its own right, not just a contraction. It may be pronounced as in bridge, or bride, or breed, or breege, or breesh. Bride, also a name in its own right, may be spelled Bride or Brid, and pronounced with or without the final e. Bridie may be a pet name for Bride or Brid or Bridget, or it may be how she says Bride. Bridget pronounced the way you would expect can be spelled Brigid, or Brighid...
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on May 05, 2014, 03:35:28 AM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   


Same here I always thought Caitlyn was pronounced "Kate-lynn".

Well, as Corvid said upthread, since about the 80s, Kate-Lynn seems to have taken over, and Kathleen seems to be out of favour in any spelling. Oddly, this was being discussed recently in the UK press with the impending centenary of the birth of Dylan Thomas - it was being pointed out that commentators were referring to his wife as Kate-Lynn whereas she pronounced it Kathleen.

It was also being mentioned that Thomas himself deliberately shifted the pronunciation of his name towards the anglicised Dillon and away from the Welsh Dullan that he had used as a child.

I imagine that my irritation at Kate-Lynn  -  I didn't say it was reasonable,  just that it annoys me  -  was shared previously by some people over the shifts of Evelyn, Sidney, Valentine etc from male to female.

When the Younger Chick was born,  my parents were concerned that we had given him the name of a cartoon character of their youth,  and weren't we worried that he would be teased about it? We had to point out that nobody under 40 had ever heard of that cartoon. Times change (she said with stunning lack of originality.)

If you want a name well provided with traps for the unwary, try Bridget. Brid is a variant in its own right, not just a contraction. It may be pronounced as in bridge, or bride, or breed, or breege, or breesh. Bride, also a name in its own right, may be spelled Bride or Brid, and pronounced with or without the final e. Bridie may be a pet name for Bride or Brid or Bridget, or it may be how she says Bride. Bridget pronounced the way you would expect can be spelled Brigid, or Brighid...

And don't forget "Bridgette" which some pronounce the french way, others pronounce Bridget.   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Piratelvr1121 on May 05, 2014, 07:15:02 AM
I never realised Caitlin was irish and had a different original pronunciation - learn something new everyday hey!   Interesting how that name with it's changed pronunciation has become so common, whereas other irish names have retained their original pronunciation.   Maybe because Caitlin does look so "normal" and easy to pronounce it never occurred to people it wasn't meant to be that way, whereas some other names, such as Siobhan, never look quite "right" e.g. See-Obb-Harn doesn't sound like a "normal" name so even pronounced phonetically it's unlikely to be mutated so frequently.   


Same here I always thought Caitlyn was pronounced "Kate-lynn".

Well, as Corvid said upthread, since about the 80s, Kate-Lynn seems to have taken over, and Kathleen seems to be out of favour in any spelling. Oddly, this was being discussed recently in the UK press with the impending centenary of the birth of Dylan Thomas - it was being pointed out that commentators were referring to his wife as Kate-Lynn whereas she pronounced it Kathleen.

It was also being mentioned that Thomas himself deliberately shifted the pronunciation of his name towards the anglicised Dillon and away from the Welsh Dullan that he had used as a child.

I imagine that my irritation at Kate-Lynn  -  I didn't say it was reasonable,  just that it annoys me  -  was shared previously by some people over the shifts of Evelyn, Sidney, Valentine etc from male to female.

When the Younger Chick was born,  my parents were concerned that we had given him the name of a cartoon character of their youth,  and weren't we worried that he would be teased about it? We had to point out that nobody under 40 had ever heard of that cartoon. Times change (she said with stunning lack of originality.)

If you want a name well provided with traps for the unwary, try Bridget. Brid is a variant in its own right, not just a contraction. It may be pronounced as in bridge, or bride, or breed, or breege, or breesh. Bride, also a name in its own right, may be spelled Bride or Brid, and pronounced with or without the final e. Bridie may be a pet name for Bride or Brid or Bridget, or it may be how she says Bride. Bridget pronounced the way you would expect can be spelled Brigid, or Brighid...

Had our youngest been a girl, we would have gone with Brigid for the name as I wanted an Irish name either way and a friend told me about all these pronunciations.  I expect we may have gone with a phonetic pronunciation and used "Biddy" or Breed as a nickname around the house.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Outdoor Girl on May 05, 2014, 07:37:25 AM
Isn't Caitlin the name of mama Stark in Game of Thrones?  And they pronounce it Cat-lynn in the TV show.

Since starting to watch the show, I've had to adjust the pronunciation in my head while reading the books.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: faithlessone on May 05, 2014, 07:48:12 AM
Isn't Caitlin the name of mama Stark in Game of Thrones?  And they pronounce it Cat-lynn in the TV show.

Since starting to watch the show, I've had to adjust the pronunciation in my head while reading the books.

It's spelt Catelyn, but yes, it's pronounced Cat-lynn, and she gets called Cat.

ETA: Several characters in the books (particularly Ned and Littlefinger) call her Cat - so it's clearly supposed to be pronounced Cat-lynn.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Minmom3 on May 05, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
FWIW, I had a friend in the late 60's, in San Francisco -  a classmate (we were 12/13 years old), from the UK (had the accent and all) who spelled her name Caitlin and said it Kate-lynn.  So that shift isn't necessarily a recent one.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mrs_deb on May 06, 2014, 09:28:48 AM
When the Younger Chick was born,  my parents were concerned that we had given him the name of a cartoon character of their youth,  and weren't we worried that he would be teased about it? We had to point out that nobody under 40 had ever heard of that cartoon. Times change (she said with stunning lack of originality.)


You named your son Alley-Oop?   ;)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: tinkytinky on May 06, 2014, 10:07:06 AM
We didn't find out what we were having with our children, so we always had names for both gender. With oldest DD, I had Andrew for a boy and Alexandra for a girl. My SIL (who professed to never want any children) said we couldn't have Andrew because that was HER name for a boy. No problem. We didn't own the name, and we had a girl so all was well. She then decides that she may as well have children so she had someone to take care of her in her old age (I kid you not, that was exactly what she said.) She did have a boy, named him Andrew and calls him.....Coty.  ;D (if she had not used the name, we would have with one of our sons, but we weren't upset about it.)

with the unusual spellings, I came across one : La-a. Any guesses? Lahay? Lae? La Aye? nope......according to the mom it is pronounced, and I quote: "the dash don't be silent"......yep her name was LaDasha.....so who does that to a child?
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on May 06, 2014, 10:48:38 AM
After a while, those countries where you have to name your child from an approved list don't seem so unreasonable, do they?
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Outdoor Girl on May 06, 2014, 10:55:09 AM
After a while, those countries where you have to name your child from an approved list don't seem so unreasonable, do they?

*snort*  LOL.  No, they do not.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TeamBhakta on May 06, 2014, 11:40:36 AM
We didn't find out what we were having with our children, so we always had names for both gender. With oldest DD, I had Andrew for a boy and Alexandra for a girl. My SIL (who professed to never want any children) said we couldn't have Andrew because that was HER name for a boy. No problem. We didn't own the name, and we had a girl so all was well. She then decides that she may as well have children so she had someone to take care of her in her old age (I kid you not, that was exactly what she said.) She did have a boy, named him Andrew and calls him.....Coty.  ;D (if she had not used the name, we would have with one of our sons, but we weren't upset about it.)

with the unusual spellings, I came across one : La-a. Any guesses? Lahay? Lae? La Aye? nope......according to the mom it is pronounced, and I quote: "the dash don't be silent"......yep her name was LaDasha.....so who does that to a child?

That's actually an old, racist joke that's been going around for years. I'm not calling you racist, but just so you know it's origin:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: tinkytinky on May 06, 2014, 11:57:13 AM
We didn't find out what we were having with our children, so we always had names for both gender. With oldest DD, I had Andrew for a boy and Alexandra for a girl. My SIL (who professed to never want any children) said we couldn't have Andrew because that was HER name for a boy. No problem. We didn't own the name, and we had a girl so all was well. She then decides that she may as well have children so she had someone to take care of her in her old age (I kid you not, that was exactly what she said.) She did have a boy, named him Andrew and calls him.....Coty.  ;D (if she had not used the name, we would have with one of our sons, but we weren't upset about it.)

with the unusual spellings, I came across one : La-a. Any guesses? Lahay? Lae? La Aye? nope......according to the mom it is pronounced, and I quote: "the dash don't be silent"......yep her name was LaDasha.....so who does that to a child?

That's actually an old, racist joke that's been going around for years. I'm not calling you racist, but just so you know it's origin:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

That's funny. Maybe the mom I was dealing with heard the joke, because when the paperwork came across our desks, I know the whole office was trying to figure out how to pronounce it. My coworker had to ask, so we would know how to address the child. Child was lovely and well behaved, but we were bumfuzzled.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: daen on May 06, 2014, 12:25:37 PM
We didn't find out what we were having with our children, so we always had names for both gender. With oldest DD, I had Andrew for a boy and Alexandra for a girl. My SIL (who professed to never want any children) said we couldn't have Andrew because that was HER name for a boy. No problem. We didn't own the name, and we had a girl so all was well. She then decides that she may as well have children so she had someone to take care of her in her old age (I kid you not, that was exactly what she said.) She did have a boy, named him Andrew and calls him.....Coty.  ;D (if she had not used the name, we would have with one of our sons, but we weren't upset about it.)

with the unusual spellings, I came across one : La-a. Any guesses? Lahay? Lae? La Aye? nope......according to the mom it is pronounced, and I quote: "the dash don't be silent"......yep her name was LaDasha.....so who does that to a child?

That's actually an old, racist joke that's been going around for years. I'm not calling you racist, but just so you know it's origin:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

That's funny. Maybe the mom I was dealing with heard the joke, because when the paperwork came across our desks, I know the whole office was trying to figure out how to pronounce it. My coworker had to ask, so we would know how to address the child. Child was lovely and well behaved, but we were bumfuzzled.

You actually saw the paperwork? Cool.  8) That's totally different from hearing it from that great authority, A-Friend-of-A-Friend.

I'd love to see a screenshot of the paperwork, just as confirmation, but I know that's not possible.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: tinkytinky on May 06, 2014, 02:07:11 PM


with the unusual spellings, I came across one : La-a. Any guesses? Lahay? Lae? La Aye? nope......according to the mom it is pronounced, and I quote: "the dash don't be silent"......yep her name was LaDasha.....so who does that to a child?

That's actually an old, racist joke that's been going around for years. I'm not calling you racist, but just so you know it's origin:
http://www.snopes.com/racial/language/le-a.asp

That's funny. Maybe the mom I was dealing with heard the joke, because when the paperwork came across our desks, I know the whole office was trying to figure out how to pronounce it. My coworker had to ask, so we would know how to address the child. Child was lovely and well behaved, but we were bumfuzzled.

You actually saw the paperwork? Cool.  8) That's totally different from hearing it from that great authority, A-Friend-of-A-Friend.

I'd love to see a screenshot of the paperwork, just as confirmation, but I know that's not possible.

This was about 3 years ago. It was with the investigator in our (government type) office. I didn't believe him at first either, but yep, there it was. There were a few time something like this happened and we really thought we were on a hidden camera show.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on May 06, 2014, 03:40:48 PM
You know, I had quite forgotten this - years and years ago part of my father's job was to interview prospective pupils for the school in which he taught,  and their parents.  This was at a time,  and in a place,  before the yooniq names began to be popular.

One couple came to see him and referred to their son Gooey, pronounced as you would think - gooey as in icing,  or caramel.  My father thought he must have misheard. Then they said it again. And again.  Over the next 30 minutes my father came up with wilder and wilder guesses as to what the child's name could be,  none of which he dared say aloud. He kept saying 'your son' instead. He didn't dare to fill in the application form.  Instead,  he pushed the form across the desk and asked the father to complete the first section. Child's surname. Child's forename.

G u y. Pronounced gooey.

All he could think was that it was a family joke so old that the family had ceased to notice it. The child didn't attend the school in the end so my father never found out what he called himself.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: violinp on May 06, 2014, 04:11:36 PM
You know, I had quite forgotten this - years and years ago part of my father's job was to interview prospective pupils for the school in which he taught,  and their parents.  This was at a time,  and in a place,  before the yooniq names began to be popular.

One couple came to see him and referred to their son Gooey, pronounced as you would think - gooey as in icing,  or caramel.  My father thought he must have misheard. Then they said it again. And again.  Over the next 30 minutes my father came up with wilder and wilder guesses as to what the child's name could be,  none of which he dared say aloud. He kept saying 'your son' instead. He didn't dare to fill in the application form.  Instead,  he pushed the form across the desk and asked the father to complete the first section. Child's surname. Child's forename.

G u y. Pronounced gooey.

All he could think was that it was a family joke so old that the family had ceased to notice it. The child didn't attend the school in the end so my father never found out what he called himself.

That's a French name, but it's pronounced Gee in French (The G having a "guh" sound).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Free Range Hippy Chick on May 06, 2014, 04:49:44 PM
This was not in France. Guy, pronounced... well, guy. It wasn't even that uncommon as a name around where we were. Guy Fawkes. Guy Burgess the spy. Guy Gibson the pilot. Guy Ritchie the director.

And a child called Gooey.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: GrammarNerd on May 06, 2014, 05:39:54 PM
My son went to school with a girl named 'Caira'.  I was talking with another mom one day about some of the kids in the class.  She mentioned a 'Sierra'.  I had no idea who that was, b/c I knew all of the kids in the class by then, so I asked.  She smirked and said 'yeah...that's how they pronounce her name, Caira.  They actually pronounce the letter 'C' instead of the sound for it, and then there's 'air' and then 'a'.' 

I've wondered over the years if this child has EVER had anyone pronounce her name right.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: lowspark on May 30, 2014, 01:23:35 PM
But Evelyn for a boy and Evelyn for a girl are pronounced differently - EE - vuh - lin for a boy and EH - vuh - lin for a girl. Sure, I wouldn't name my son Evelyn, but I wouldn't think the boy named Evelyn was a girl, because of the pronunciation.

The only Evelyn I know is a girl who pronounces it "Ee-vuh-lin." This may be because she lives in Montreal and is being raised bilingually in English and French.

But it means that if someone refers to "my friend 'Evelyn'" and pronounces it with a long e, I won't assume their friend is male. If you need to indicate gender, use pronouns or otherwise make it explicit: "I met a man named Evelyn last week" or "my friend Evelyn said she'd come over on the weekend."

I was thinking primarily of Evelyn Waugh, the author of Brideshead Revisited, so that probably colored my perception of the name and its different pronunciations.

I just thought of this thread the other night while watching an old movie on Netflix called, "Personal Affair". Movie was made in 1953 in the UK and there was a female character named Evelyn, pronounced with a long E.

I, too, sort of assumed long E meant male based on Evelyn Waugh. But here is a fairly old English film which contradicts that. Funny how you can get preconceived notions about something based on an anecdotal occurrence.  :D
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mime on May 30, 2014, 02:11:14 PM
My son went to school with a girl named 'Caira'.  I was talking with another mom one day about some of the kids in the class.  She mentioned a 'Sierra'.  I had no idea who that was, b/c I knew all of the kids in the class by then, so I asked.  She smirked and said 'yeah...that's how they pronounce her name, Caira.  They actually pronounce the letter 'C' instead of the sound for it, and then there's 'air' and then 'a'.' 

I've wondered over the years if this child has EVER had anyone pronounce her name right.

I knew of a Ciara, too, in my son's preschool. When I asked her name she responded, and I must not have heard her correctly because I repeated her name as "Sierra", and she quickly corrected me with a (very cute) 3-year old girl over-exaggerated "no-- See-AIR-ah!" I could tell that even at 3 years old, she'd had plenty of experience correcting people on how to pronounce her name.

I didn't think I'd run into this with my own son-- Anton. to me the name is very Scandinavian, and always always always pronounced "ANN-tun". Little did I know... I didn't realize that others know the name to have other origins and say "ann-TONE", "ann-TAHN", or even "ann-TWAN".

At least they still sound similar to each other.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: RingTailedLemur on May 30, 2014, 02:40:40 PM
My son went to school with a girl named 'Caira'.  I was talking with another mom one day about some of the kids in the class.  She mentioned a 'Sierra'.  I had no idea who that was, b/c I knew all of the kids in the class by then, so I asked.  She smirked and said 'yeah...that's how they pronounce her name, Caira.  They actually pronounce the letter 'C' instead of the sound for it, and then there's 'air' and then 'a'.' 

I've wondered over the years if this child has EVER had anyone pronounce her name right.

I knew of a Ciara, too, in my son's preschool. When I asked her name she responded, and I must not have heard her correctly because I repeated her name as "Sierra", and she quickly corrected me with a (very cute) 3-year old girl over-exaggerated "no-- See-AIR-ah!" I could tell that even at 3 years old, she'd had plenty of experience correcting people on how to pronounce her name.

I didn't think I'd run into this with my own son-- Anton. to me the name is very Scandinavian, and always always always pronounced "ANN-tun". Little did I know... I didn't realize that others know the name to have other origins and say "ann-TONE", "ann-TAHN", or even "ann-TWAN".

At least they still sound similar to each other.

How did you pronounce "Sierra"?  I'd pronounce it as "See-AIR-ah", as she did.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: artk2002 on May 30, 2014, 02:47:54 PM
How did you pronounce "Sierra"?  I'd pronounce it as "See-AIR-ah", as she did.

That's how I pronounce it as well. Having lived and traveled through the Sierra Nevada mountains, I don't think I've ever heard it pronounced any other way.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on May 30, 2014, 02:58:38 PM
My son went to school with a girl named 'Caira'.  I was talking with another mom one day about some of the kids in the class.  She mentioned a 'Sierra'.  I had no idea who that was, b/c I knew all of the kids in the class by then, so I asked.  She smirked and said 'yeah...that's how they pronounce her name, Caira.  They actually pronounce the letter 'C' instead of the sound for it, and then there's 'air' and then 'a'.' 

I've wondered over the years if this child has EVER had anyone pronounce her name right.

I knew of a Ciara, too, in my son's preschool. When I asked her name she responded, and I must not have heard her correctly because I repeated her name as "Sierra", and she quickly corrected me with a (very cute) 3-year old girl over-exaggerated "no-- See-AIR-ah!" I could tell that even at 3 years old, she'd had plenty of experience correcting people on how to pronounce her name.

I didn't think I'd run into this with my own son-- Anton. to me the name is very Scandinavian, and always always always pronounced "ANN-tun". Little did I know... I didn't realize that others know the name to have other origins and say "ann-TONE", "ann-TAHN", or even "ann-TWAN".

At least they still sound similar to each other.

How did you pronounce "Sierra"?  I'd pronounce it as "See-AIR-ah", as she did.
Me too.  "Ciara" on the other hand, I'd pronounce as See-ARE-ah.

And I hear a lot on the TV about people in this area named "ant-WON."
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Kimblee on May 30, 2014, 03:34:50 PM
I know a Lillian born in '99. Since childhood I'd wanted to name DD Lydia but DH vetoed it on the grounds of mental association. Thanks a lot, Beetlejuice.

On names with common pronunciations but different spellings, I once encountered an "Emily" spelled Emmaleigh.

I'm Emaleigh. Its apparently french? I was told that a few times anyway. I didn't love it as a kid but it LOOKS very pretty on paper with my middle name.

Gotta spell it every time though.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: mime on May 30, 2014, 03:39:23 PM
My son went to school with a girl named 'Caira'.  I was talking with another mom one day about some of the kids in the class.  She mentioned a 'Sierra'.  I had no idea who that was, b/c I knew all of the kids in the class by then, so I asked.  She smirked and said 'yeah...that's how they pronounce her name, Caira.  They actually pronounce the letter 'C' instead of the sound for it, and then there's 'air' and then 'a'.' 

I've wondered over the years if this child has EVER had anyone pronounce her name right.

I knew of a Ciara, too, in my son's preschool. When I asked her name she responded, and I must not have heard her correctly because I repeated her name as "Sierra", and she quickly corrected me with a (very cute) 3-year old girl over-exaggerated "no-- See-AIR-ah!" I could tell that even at 3 years old, she'd had plenty of experience correcting people on how to pronounce her name.

I didn't think I'd run into this with my own son-- Anton. to me the name is very Scandinavian, and always always always pronounced "ANN-tun". Little did I know... I didn't realize that others know the name to have other origins and say "ann-TONE", "ann-TAHN", or even "ann-TWAN".

At least they still sound similar to each other.

How did you pronounce "Sierra"?  I'd pronounce it as "See-AIR-ah", as she did.

Ack! I meant that she said "See-ARR-ah". Good grief, I still can't get that name right!  :P

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: HGolightly on May 30, 2014, 07:17:08 PM
And to complicate things.....I had a friend named Ciara who pronounced it KEE-are-a
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Corvid on May 31, 2014, 12:23:42 AM
And now we're back to Irish names, in which "Ciara" is pronounced "Keer ah" as in Keira Knightly.   :P
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Shea on May 31, 2014, 10:50:18 AM
I know a Lillian born in '99. Since childhood I'd wanted to name DD Lydia but DH vetoed it on the grounds of mental association. Thanks a lot, Beetlejuice.

On names with common pronunciations but different spellings, I once encountered an "Emily" spelled Emmaleigh.

I'm Emaleigh. Its apparently french? I was told that a few times anyway. I didn't love it as a kid but it LOOKS very pretty on paper with my middle name.

Gotta spell it every time though.

Emily in French is Émilie, the "leigh" suffix doesn't exist in French.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Tea Drinker on May 31, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
I know a Lillian born in '99. Since childhood I'd wanted to name DD Lydia but DH vetoed it on the grounds of mental association. Thanks a lot, Beetlejuice.

On names with common pronunciations but different spellings, I once encountered an "Emily" spelled Emmaleigh.

I'm Emaleigh. Its apparently french? I was told that a few times anyway. I didn't love it as a kid but it LOOKS very pretty on paper with my middle name.

Gotta spell it every time though.

It doesn't look French to me. Knowing nothing about how it was chosen, I would guess that your parents started with a double name, Emma Leigh, and combined them, in the same way as people can be named either Mary Lou or Marylou.

If I just saw it on paper, I'd pronounce Emaleigh a bit differently from "Emily" (or Emilie), a schwa for the "a" rather than the short i (as in "it") of "Emily," but of course it's your name and get to decide how it's pronounced.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on May 31, 2014, 11:39:31 PM
My friend is getting married. He and his fiancee have a name for a baby girl picked out that they really like. They have not shared this name with their families. (Olivia Clare, how pretty!)

His older brother and the brother's wife are expecting. They are not finding out the baby's gender before the birth. They name they are considering for a baby girl? Olivia Jane.

My friend said, You know what, if they have a girl and go with Olivia, I guess there will just be two Olivias b/c we're not changing our minds on how much we like it.

He has the right attitude. I don't think his SIL will feel the same way.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Allyson on June 01, 2014, 11:06:00 AM
While I can see where he's coming from, I think intentionally naming your kid after an existing cousin when you think the parents of that cousin won't take it well is...maybe not the best idea. Olivia is a super common name, but still. Though in this case, since the older brother's wife is expecting *now* and the younger brother are still engaged, it might a few years and they might change their mind anyway...people often do. And if they see their niece Olivia frequently they may associate the name so much with her they don't want to use it. Hard to say...
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Kimblee on June 01, 2014, 04:19:41 PM
I know a Lillian born in '99. Since childhood I'd wanted to name DD Lydia but DH vetoed it on the grounds of mental association. Thanks a lot, Beetlejuice.

On names with common pronunciations but different spellings, I once encountered an "Emily" spelled Emmaleigh.

I'm Emaleigh. Its apparently french? I was told that a few times anyway. I didn't love it as a kid but it LOOKS very pretty on paper with my middle name.

Gotta spell it every time though.

Emily in French is Émilie, the "leigh" suffix doesn't exist in French.

Yeah, I kinda knew it was a crock when I was told it was French. The teacher that said it was a bit of a "know-it-all" and refused to believe that my mother started with "Emily" and tweaked. But then two other, unrelated, folks told me the same thing. Know-It-Alls share a brain wave.

The strange thing is, the name, spelled with the single "m" like mine, doesn't appear to be a singular occurrence, I found an Emaleigh born in 1846 and one in the 1930s.

And no, I was not named for the separate names "Emma" and "Lee/Leigh". If I had been, my father might have killed my mother right there in the delivery room. My mother wanted to name me Emma Lee [lastname] and my father actually told her if she did he would disappear with me and she'd never see me again alive. He agreed to the "tweaked" version of Emaleigh as long as i was given his preferred middle name. (Uh yeah, my dad kinda hated my grandmother. With good reason but dang is that a scary thing to tell your pregnant wife! And they both admitted he said it and both LAUGHED about it even after the divorce.) So I was named Emaleigh [middlename] [lastname] and called [diminutive of middle name].

Its a weird name to have among the sea of girls in our family. And I was the ONLY girl for about twelve years to have a "real" middle name (not Jo/Lee/Kay/Lynn. One of these four was every girl cousin/aunt/etc's middle name and there was a fuss raised at my parents for not "carrying it on")
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Zizi-K on June 01, 2014, 04:53:46 PM
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Minmom3 on June 01, 2014, 09:28:28 PM
When you have a boy, use the family name you want to use. Maybe combined with your husband/baby's father's family names, it won't sound like clone 1 and clone 2.  Her use of the names does not preclude your use of the same names.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: HannahGrace on June 01, 2014, 10:05:07 PM
Agree with Minimom.  I assume there have to be some good family names on your husband's side!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Zizi-K on June 01, 2014, 10:25:29 PM
Naturally there are other options, which include names from my husband's side as well as all the other names in the world. However, the names on my side are so unique, her use of them really does preclude my use of them, at least for me. That's just the way I feel about it. I will never express it to her, but I just don't understand the logic of using up literally all the decent names on our side on one kid. If she has another son, he won't have any family names. (Jewish cultural beliefs preclude using the names of live relatives, seeing it as inviting the evil eye.) My father only has one brother that has passed away, and his name is very generic and not one that I'd be interested in.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TootsNYC on June 02, 2014, 11:13:07 AM
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: daen on June 02, 2014, 11:18:57 AM
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.

Zizi-K did mention in a subsequent post the belief that a family name shared amongst living relatives invites bad luck. In that case,  I can understand that the names would be considered "used up" until the person holding them died.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: wolfie on June 02, 2014, 11:56:09 AM
I'm not sure how to feel about this. My sister just had a baby, and she claimed basically all of the paternal names for her son. I'm not using real names here, but if my maternal grandfather was named James Doe Smith and my paternal grandfather was named Jack Black, she named her son Smith Doe Jack Lastname. Unfortunately the names are not generic, but rather they are very specific and unique. Jack is not a second middle name (I think), that is, I don't think its on the birth certificate, but it is going to be used as his Hebrew name. For those who don't know, each Jew is given a Hebrew name to be used when called up to the Torah, for an aliyah, or during the misheberach or prayer for the sick.) I assume that Israelis or people who are named a Jewish name don't then have another one.

Anyway, I haven't said anything, but I was like, Wow, way to claim ALL of the familial boys names. (I realize that I have no claim to these names, and I won't be saying anything to her. But I still don't like it and feel like she was greedy.)

Maybe she felt obligated to balance out all the "honoring grandparents" pressures. I don't consider this "claiming." Time was when having the same name as a family member was completely normal.

There was no "using up" of names. People can have the same name as someone else. Especially is this completely common for middle names, where using a family name is kinda ordinary.

I don't think there still is any "using up" of names.

Zizi-K did mention in a subsequent post the belief that a family name shared amongst living relatives invites bad luck. In that case,  I can understand that the names would be considered "used up" until the person holding them died.

And for me I just will not name my child the same name another child that is close to me. I really don't like that idea. Which is fine for me since I don't plan on having kids anyway but if I did them my nephew's names would be off the table no matter what. Just a personal preference.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on June 02, 2014, 06:17:03 PM
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I ever have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on June 03, 2014, 02:34:47 AM
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I never have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.

I think it was sweet of Cousin to check, but at the same time I don't think it would be reasonable of your Mom to say no.  I think if it would upset her she should say so, but she should also acknowledge their right to use the name.   I think the most she could say would be "To be honest it would take awhile for me to get used to hearing OFN, when I hear OFN I think of my little girl, but it is a beautiful name and I understand if you decide to use it. Thank you for considering my feelings."     Because the question is, how would she feel if she tells them no but they decide to use it anyway, seeing nobody owns a name?   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TootsNYC on June 03, 2014, 08:58:19 AM
There are ways for your mom to wrap her head around it, hearing that name. "Oh, the little girl who honors my girl is doing something..." Thinking of the Nzew Gloria as a continuation or the communal part of parental love (all us parents are members of the same club, I think), maybe.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: baglady on June 03, 2014, 06:12:22 PM
I would like someone who is Jewish to enlighten me on something. I know (from my Jewish ex-husband) that Jews don't name children after living relatives -- only after the dead. Ex wanted to give his son the middle name Steven, after his living brother, but because of that tradition, he went with Evan -- the male version of his late grandmother Eva's name.

But if two contemporary relatives both want to give their child the same name, does it count as "naming after"? If Sister 1 names her daughter Sarah, and two years later, Sister 2 has a daughter and names her Sarah, she's not named *for* cousin Sarah. She just happens to like the name (or maybe both Sarahs are named after the same late relative).
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: MommyPenguin on June 03, 2014, 07:23:57 PM
My guess is that since it's the same generation, it wouldn't count as "naming after" so much.

My mom (who was Jewish but recently converted) told me that the concept is that it's dangerous to name a child after a living relative, because when Death comes to take the elderly relative, he might make a mistake and take the child instead.  However, I'm not sure if that's actually the reason for the tradition or if that's just sort of a fairytale attempt to explain something that she wasn't really sure about.  If it *is* the reason, though, then that would imply that it's less of an issue in the case you mention because both are in the same generation, so it's not likely that one will die significantly before the other, causing the younger one to die as a child because of a mistake.

My real first name is Sarah (just like your example!) and my mom is Susan.  She was named after her grandmother, who was a Sarah (or Sara?) but who was alive at the time of my mother's birth, and so my mother couldn't be named Sarah after her since she was living.  My mother was named Susan since it's a derivative of Sarah, but she spent her whole life wishing she'd been named Sarah and finally was able to bestow it on me.  Fortunately, I've always loved my name.  :)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: lowspark on June 04, 2014, 07:20:55 AM
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.

Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on June 04, 2014, 07:58:15 AM
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I never have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.

I think it was sweet of Cousin to check, but at the same time I don't think it would be reasonable of your Mom to say no.  I think if it would upset her she should say so, but she should also acknowledge their right to use the name.   I think the most she could say would be "To be honest it would take awhile for me to get used to hearing OFN, when I hear OFN I think of my little girl, but it is a beautiful name and I understand if you decide to use it. Thank you for considering my feelings."     Because the question is, how would she feel if she tells them no but they decide to use it anyway, seeing nobody owns a name?

I don't think Mom is going to say no, I believe she feels that would be unreasonable and a little silly. I think she'll probably just share her concerns and then tell Cousin to do what she thinks is best. And there's still a 50/50 shot she's having a boy and the whole conversation is moot.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Zizi-K on June 04, 2014, 11:09:08 AM
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.

My family is Sephardic, but we've attended an Ashkenazi synagogue my whole life. My middle name is my grandmother's name, who had just passed away when I was born. So I'm not sure whether this particular superstition is a long tradition in the family, or more recently adopted. Personally, I am not superstitious at all, but would rather avoid naming a child after a living relative more for their comfort than my own. I don't think that my use of a name that my sister recently chose would be covered under this belief, I think it has more to do with naming a child after an older relative. My feelings are along the lines of what wolfie described. We have a small family, and my sister's kids will be the only cousins that my (hypothetical) children will likely know or be close to. It just does not make sense to me to choose the same name that was just chosen by my sister. Sorry if it sounds like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - as I said in my first post, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I had a feeling of not liking it, but when I think of the wide world of names out there, there are a lot of great options so I'm not so bothered. My sister does tend to be a little self-centered, so it was more like "oh, sure, there she goes again!" But this is entirely overshadowed by how thrilled we are about the baby. So life goes on!
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: DCGirl on June 04, 2014, 11:18:23 AM
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.

That tradition has been common in other cultures but is no longer.  My ancestry is Dutch and, when doing genealogy, you can almost determine the birth order of the children by their names. My great-great-great-grandfather was name Jacob, and everyone one of his 13 children had a son named Jacob based on the following conventions:

http://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/dutch-naming-traditions/
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on June 06, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

So in my generation, my oldest sister has the same name of several cousins on my father's side, and my second oldest sister has the same name as a few cousins on my mother's side. No boys in my family but there were several male cousins on my father's side who shared a name. Of course, on my mother's side, the boy cousins all had different names.

Note that this tradition holds regardless of whether grandparent is alive or dead, and usually they were alive. And note that although there were several first cousins who had the same name, no one felt the name had been appropriated. It was expected.

My family is Sephardic, but we've attended an Ashkenazi synagogue my whole life. My middle name is my grandmother's name, who had just passed away when I was born. So I'm not sure whether this particular superstition is a long tradition in the family, or more recently adopted. Personally, I am not superstitious at all, but would rather avoid naming a child after a living relative more for their comfort than my own. I don't think that my use of a name that my sister recently chose would be covered under this belief, I think it has more to do with naming a child after an older relative. My feelings are along the lines of what wolfie described. We have a small family, and my sister's kids will be the only cousins that my (hypothetical) children will likely know or be close to. It just does not make sense to me to choose the same name that was just chosen by my sister. Sorry if it sounds like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - as I said in my first post, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I had a feeling of not liking it, but when I think of the wide world of names out there, there are a lot of great options so I'm not so bothered. My sister does tend to be a little self-centered, so it was more like "oh, sure, there she goes again!" But this is entirely overshadowed by how thrilled we are about the baby. So life goes on!

I think it would be odd and a little inconvenient to use the same first name, particularly as you say the cousins will grow up close.   I think I've mentioned before that DH and I loved two boys names, both of which were in use - one was my nephew, and one his!   Yes we could have used them, but we didn't want to duplicate for so many reasons.   Having said that, my son has the same middle name as my nephew, and I didn't even think twice about that.   Nor would I have hesitated to use nephew's middle name as my son's first name if I'd liked it as such.  I don't think it bothered my sister at all either, and nephew thought it was pretty cool (he's 5).

So I definitely understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it precludes you using some of the names in a different way or different order. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: VorFemme on June 06, 2014, 06:09:17 AM
The Romans had similar naming conventions as far as "family names" - to the point of any names "awarded" the man for victory in battle (Germanicus comes to mind) were passed down to the next generation as well.

It has made keeping track of who's who in history very difficult for generations of school children, I'm sure.

Now - there were nicknames, use names, or other ways of determining who Claudius the BLIND or Caligula was (a Germanicus from his father's victories there) - but most of the time the most famous bearer of the name is the one that stands out from the crowd of Ciceros...

I am sure that the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians had similar issues with names being passed down in the same family....
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: poundcake on June 06, 2014, 08:39:43 AM
Two cousins in my family, born within a month of each other back in the 1970s, were each given the same first name, but different middle names. (I have no idea if this was a point of contention between the SiLs. It seems that only more recently has the idea of "no one can have the same name" become more absolute.) The cousins LOVED having the same name! It was like their bond within the rest of the huge family. At family gatherings they were called by their first and middle names, think Michelle Lee and Michelle Rose. No one seemed to think it was odd at all.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: TootsNYC on June 06, 2014, 09:49:37 AM
That particular superstition is one that is perpetuated by European Jews. I descend from Middle Eastern Jews and our tradition is exactly the opposite. In our tradition, you name your first born son after his father's father, first born daughter after father's mother. Second child is similarly named after the mother's parents. After that it's a free for all.

You know, that's interesting--I'd forgotten until just now that in the story of the birth of John the Baptist (who was Jewish), the relatives were going to name the baby Zechariah after his father; Elizabeth says to name him John, and they reply, "there is no one among your relatives who has that name." It's only when Zech writes out the name do they believe her.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on June 06, 2014, 03:52:39 PM
The Romans had similar naming conventions as far as "family names" - to the point of any names "awarded" the man for victory in battle (Germanicus comes to mind) were passed down to the next generation as well.

It has made keeping track of who's who in history very difficult for generations of school children, I'm sure.

Now - there were nicknames, use names, or other ways of determining who Claudius the BLIND or Caligula was (a Germanicus from his father's victories there) - but most of the time the most famous bearer of the name is the one that stands out from the crowd of Ciceros...

I am sure that the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians had similar issues with names being passed down in the same family....
Funny story about Caligula.  By birthname, he was Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus.  His father was a Roman general, who  made the unusual choice to have his wife and children with him on campaign.  Little Gaius was very proud of his sandal-boots, miniatures of the caligae  that the soldiers wore, so much so that the men nicknamed him "Caligula", the diminutive form of caligae. 

Pity poor  Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus -- no one remembers him by that name.  Instead, this most feared of the insane Roman Emperors has gone into the history books with that Latin nickname, one that would be rendered into English as ... Bootsie.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: wolfie on June 06, 2014, 03:57:33 PM
The Romans had similar naming conventions as far as "family names" - to the point of any names "awarded" the man for victory in battle (Germanicus comes to mind) were passed down to the next generation as well.

It has made keeping track of who's who in history very difficult for generations of school children, I'm sure.

Now - there were nicknames, use names, or other ways of determining who Claudius the BLIND or Caligula was (a Germanicus from his father's victories there) - but most of the time the most famous bearer of the name is the one that stands out from the crowd of Ciceros...

I am sure that the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians had similar issues with names being passed down in the same family....

Like how for a while every child got the same name? SO Pliny the elder and Pliny the younger were actually brothers (or sisters - not sure which gender name Pliny is) Imagine a family like the Duggers? 18 kids with the same name??? I guess like George Forman and his kids they all must have gone by other names but still.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Elfmama on June 06, 2014, 04:07:12 PM
The Romans had similar naming conventions as far as "family names" - to the point of any names "awarded" the man for victory in battle (Germanicus comes to mind) were passed down to the next generation as well.

It has made keeping track of who's who in history very difficult for generations of school children, I'm sure.

Now - there were nicknames, use names, or other ways of determining who Claudius the BLIND or Caligula was (a Germanicus from his father's victories there) - but most of the time the most famous bearer of the name is the one that stands out from the crowd of Ciceros...

I am sure that the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians had similar issues with names being passed down in the same family....

Like how for a while every child got the same name? SO Pliny the elder and Pliny the younger were actually brothers (or sisters - not sure which gender name Pliny is) Imagine a family like the Duggers? 18 kids with the same name??? I guess like George Forman and his kids they all must have gone by other names but still.
The Plinys were uncle and nephew.  Girls usually went by nicknames, because officially daughters didn't even get their own names.  If Gaius Julius Caesar had a sister, she was Julia.  If there were other sisters, they were also Julia.  Julia Major and Julia Minor if there were only two, Julia Prima/Secunda/Tertia (First/Second/Third) and so on if there were 3 or more. 
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Jones on June 06, 2014, 04:11:36 PM
I assume that has something to do with all the Marys listed in the New Testament, too? Or it was just an excessively common name...
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: wolfie on June 06, 2014, 04:21:45 PM
The Romans had similar naming conventions as far as "family names" - to the point of any names "awarded" the man for victory in battle (Germanicus comes to mind) were passed down to the next generation as well.

It has made keeping track of who's who in history very difficult for generations of school children, I'm sure.

Now - there were nicknames, use names, or other ways of determining who Claudius the BLIND or Caligula was (a Germanicus from his father's victories there) - but most of the time the most famous bearer of the name is the one that stands out from the crowd of Ciceros...

I am sure that the Greeks, Egyptians, and Babylonians had similar issues with names being passed down in the same family....

Like how for a while every child got the same name? SO Pliny the elder and Pliny the younger were actually brothers (or sisters - not sure which gender name Pliny is) Imagine a family like the Duggers? 18 kids with the same name??? I guess like George Forman and his kids they all must have gone by other names but still.
The Plinys were uncle and nephew.  Girls usually went by nicknames, because officially daughters didn't even get their own names.  If Gaius Julius Caesar had a sister, she was Julia.  If there were other sisters, they were also Julia.  Julia Major and Julia Minor if there were only two, Julia Prima/Secunda/Tertia (First/Second/Third) and so on if there were 3 or more.

Okay - so boys got their own names? only girls were numbered? I realized I was thinking of Agrippa the elder and younger - and I know those were women.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: CharlieBraun on June 06, 2014, 05:03:44 PM
I do family research and the naming conventions in my German Hungarian family are responsible for so many clumps of hair torn out.

Brothers emigrating from 1890 to 1910, all to Philadelphia, all with the same unusual last name.  Joseph, Frank, Peter, Adam, John. Two sisters, Dorothea and Magdalen.

Joseph married and had no children. Frank married and had Frank and John.  Peter died unmarried during WW2. Adam (I) died as a baby. John married and had John, Adam, Peter, Joseph, Dorothea and Magdalen. Adam (II) married and had Peter.

Two of these brothers married sisters, who were their cousins. With the same roster of family names.  And with four brothers.  Frank, Joseph, Peter and Wendelin.  And those brothers all married and had children.  So their wives' families, also impossible German Hungarian names as last names, have the same seven first names.

62 first cousins. Born over 17 years. All with one of the above seven first names and one of two last names. 

That was two years of my life spent untangling that.
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: girlmusic on June 06, 2014, 07:04:13 PM
No matter how hard I try, I can't make Erin/Aaron sound alike, nor Don/Dawn. (Aussie/NZ here). In my little world:

Don - rhymes with John/Ron/con.
Dawn - rhymes with thorn/corn/morn/Shawn.

Aaron - rhymes with baren/Karen (or basically just Karen without the K).
Erin - rhymes with Kerryn/Merryn (ear-in).

New Yorker here.

Don - rhymes with Ron/John
Dawn - rhymes with fawn/lawn basically the "aw" in awning with a D and N at each end

Aaron - rhymes with Karen/barren
Erin - "eh"- rin (as in tin without the t)
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on June 08, 2014, 12:10:31 PM
No matter how hard I try, I can't make Erin/Aaron sound alike, nor Don/Dawn. (Aussie/NZ here). In my little world:

Don - rhymes with John/Ron/con.
Dawn - rhymes with thorn/corn/morn/Shawn.

Aaron - rhymes with baren/Karen (or basically just Karen without the K).
Erin - rhymes with Kerryn/Merryn (ear-in).

New Yorker here.

Don - rhymes with Ron/John
Dawn - rhymes with fawn/lawn basically the "aw" in awning with a D and N at each end

Aaron - rhymes with Karen/barren
Erin - "eh"- rin (as in tin without the t)

Midwesterner.

My John and lawn do sound alike, thus Don and Dawn do, too.

Aaron rhymes with Karen rhymes with Erin. When we want to distinguish a story about friend's brother Aaron from other friend's sister Erin, we say, "Do you mean A-ron or Ee-rin?"
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Corvid on June 10, 2014, 05:07:54 PM
I'm from the upper Midwest/Great Lakes region, and I'm in agreement with the New Yorker.

Don = John
Dawn = fawn, Shawn

Aaron = Karen, barren
Erin = "eh"-rin
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: Ceallach on June 10, 2014, 10:53:21 PM
Two cousins in my family, born within a month of each other back in the 1970s, were each given the same first name, but different middle names. (I have no idea if this was a point of contention between the SiLs. It seems that only more recently has the idea of "no one can have the same name" become more absolute.) The cousins LOVED having the same name! It was like their bond within the rest of the huge family. At family gatherings they were called by their first and middle names, think Michelle Lee and Michelle Rose. No one seemed to think it was odd at all.

I actually would have been ok with this had the names of my nephews been the kind that work well double-barrelled.  Unfortunately they were both really long/distinctive names that would sound odd paired with something.   For example, it would be a bit clumsy having a "Bartholemew James" and "Bartholemew Pete" etc.  (And yes, of course you could have two different nicknames or something else, but it was just too complicated).   And seeing my only reason for wanting those names was "hey I really like that name" we picked something different.

If it had been a more straightforward name I would have been more than happy for my "Mary" to be "Mary Rose" when around her cousins and I imagine they would have found it quite cool sharing the name.   
Title: Re: "Stealing" a Baby Name
Post by: z_squared82 on August 25, 2014, 03:41:01 PM
So my mother had six miscarriages. The baby she lost right before me was a daughter who she and Dad named Old Fashioned Name. I have said for as long as I can remember that I want to use Old Fashioned Name should I never have a daughter.

My cousin is pregnant. Independently from one another, she and her husband both decided they like Old Fashioned Name if they have a girl. Cousin asks my mom how she feels about this (but please don't tell anyone what name we're thinking of). Mom isn't quite sure how she feels about it, but lets Cousin know that she will have to talk to me, too, since I've always said I wanted to use that name. Cousin, evidently, had no idea about that.

I told Mom I was fine with it b/c there is no guarantee I'll ever have any children, much less a daughter, and even if I do, my daughter and Cousin's daughter would be years apart age wise. (I'm actually a little upset, but that has more to do with the idea of never having kids, which is becoming ever more a possibility.) Mom said she was going to have to keep thinking on it b/c while it's kind of flattering, she had also never considered that someone else in the family might use that name and she doesn't know if she can handle hearing Aunt constantly say, "Well, OFN is doing this" or "OFN was so cute the other day, she..." and know that it's not her little girl.

So props to Cousin for thinking about Mom, but I don't know if Cousin considered that Mom might actually have a problem with it.

I think it was sweet of Cousin to check, but at the same time I don't think it would be reasonable of your Mom to say no.  I think if it would upset her she should say so, but she should also acknowledge their right to use the name.   I think the most she could say would be "To be honest it would take awhile for me to get used to hearing OFN, when I hear OFN I think of my little girl, but it is a beautiful name and I understand if you decide to use it. Thank you for considering my feelings."     Because the question is, how would she feel if she tells them no but they decide to use it anyway, seeing nobody owns a name?

I don't think Mom is going to say no, I believe she feels that would be unreasonable and a little silly. I think she'll probably just share her concerns and then tell Cousin to do what she thinks is best. And there's still a 50/50 shot she's having a boy and the whole conversation is moot.

Update: Don't know what answer Mom gave, but Cousin had a boy. His name is Peter, for her husband's deceased father.