Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: Figgie on June 13, 2014, 07:40:02 PM

Title: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 13, 2014, 07:40:02 PM
Background first.  Sorry for the length.  We have friends who live about 15 hours away from us.  We try to visit each other at least once a year (alternate who goes to who) and we meet in Mexico every winter for up to 2 weeks.  Both of us own timeshares, albeit at different places. 

So, one year we stay two weeks at their timeshare in Mexico and the next year they stay two weeks with us at our timeshare.  We have done this for over a dozen years and because we are very compatible, never have had an issues.

We just got home from grocery shopping to find a message on our answering machine.  The message is from the wife of friends of our friends, who we have met quite briefly a couple of times when we visited our friends.  I don't believe either of us have ever had a conversation of any length with this woman or her spouse...just met, chatted about topics like the weather and moved along.

The message from the wife (we listened to it twice because we really couldn't believe what we were hearing) was a request to stay with us (and our friends) at our timeshare in Mexico in 2015 (it is our year to be the "hosts). 

Our friends (who are in Seattle at a christening this weekend), have been called.  They are shocked and horrified.  They did not give their friend our phone number and had no idea that she would look us up on the internet and find our number. 

She apparently has been asking them (our friends) to invite her and her spouse to stay with them in Mexico for the past several years.  She has always been told no and told that we have an arrangement that works well for the four of us and that none of us plan to change that by adding another couple to the mix.

I gather she is the kind of person who doesn't believe in accepting no for an answer.

So, what do I/we do now?  Do I call her back and tell her no?  Do I ignore the message? 

My spouse says (semi-seriously) that he will call her back, tell her no and then tell her that it is rude to invite yourself on other peoples vacations.  I told him that I thought the ehellions would have much more polite responses than that and he agreed to wait and see what others have to say.  :)

I'm still in shock about this.  None of us are young.  Our friends and their friends are all retired.  I've just never had anyone try to invite themselves along on our vacation before! 

Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: JenJay on June 13, 2014, 07:48:31 PM
I'd ignore her, wouldn't even respond. That's one of those "I'm too stunned to form a decent reply so let's pretend this hasn't happened" deals.

If she calls again, however, I'd let her know "I'm sorry but We all enjoy our annual tradition and nobody wants to change it." (On second thought don't even hint at an apology, she'll be on that like a dog with a bone, assuming you feel bad and she can wear you down!)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: NyaChan on June 13, 2014, 07:49:31 PM
To be honest, I'd probably just not answer.  If I did, Id say exactly what your friends did - you already have arrangements that work and you wont be inviting others on the vacation.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 13, 2014, 07:57:52 PM
I think what shocks me the most, is we don't really even know these people.  I doubt if I could pick either of them out in a crowd.

Would it be rude to block her phone number?  We have the type of set-up that allows unlimited blocking of phone numbers.  All someone gets if they call our number (after being blocked) is a message that this line is no longer in service.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: CakeEater on June 13, 2014, 08:04:47 PM
I don't think I'd answer at all. If you wanted to get the conversation out of the way if you'd be thinking about it and wondering when she'd call back, I'd definitely just say that you're happy with things as they are, and none of you want to change your plans.

What a cheek!

Oh, yes, definitely block her number if you can.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Winterlight on June 13, 2014, 08:05:05 PM
I wouldn't respond.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: AuntyEm on June 13, 2014, 08:43:59 PM
I also would be very annoyed that she had the nerve to invite herself on my vacation and would not bother to respond.  If she has the nerve to call (which I'm sure she does) I would respond as others have suggested.  By all means block her number if you don't want to deal with her.  Wow.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: kherbert05 on June 13, 2014, 08:49:17 PM
Black hole her - and let your friend handle their now probably x-friend.


If you can block her on your phone(s) do so. If you and friend are on facebook see if you can find the woman and block her their also. If she e-mails set up a rule and either delete of file her emails unopened.


If possible your friends might want to tell their timeshare people she is not their guest in case she shows up at their timeshare this year.


Hopefully it won't be a problem next year.


What really disturbs me is - My response in my head was there is always one who is that self centered that they do things like this.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 13, 2014, 08:53:13 PM
Oh E-hell no you crazy wacked out boundary stomping semi-stalkery person you I'm afraid that won't be possible.   >:D
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 13, 2014, 09:04:50 PM
I'd say, don't call her back at all. I'd want to consult w/ my friends about what sorts of "fallout avoidance" they want.

If they want to handle it, I'd let them.

I'd be so tempted to say to this person, "We don't know you well enough to invite you to share our vacation, so no. And don't ask again." But that's sort of nuclear, even if it is the truth. So before I did that, I'd want to check w/ my friends.

I'd also block her number.

Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Ceallach on June 13, 2014, 09:13:05 PM
I would forget you ever got the message, it's such an inappropriate request from a near stranger that I think it's perfectly ok to go down the whole route of "forgiving them for asking".   Basically, by pretending it never happened, you're sending the message that you're giving them the opportunity to save face.   That's the nice thing to do.   Obviously if they ask again or more directly you will need to be more direct in acknowledging their faux pas. 

And definitely ok to block their number!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: m2kbug on June 13, 2014, 09:15:26 PM
I wouldn't call back.  Don't answer the phone if they call.  Be prepared for something to say if you do pick up.  I would talk to my friends about what to tell them.  I think saying, "I'm sorry, but we already have plans for vacation," would be about all I would say.  Block her number or program her number into the phone with "do not answer" to pop up on caller ID where the name usually goes. 
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: blarg314 on June 13, 2014, 09:20:04 PM

If you're a really good actor, phone back the number and go with confused concern - you heard the message, but you genuinely thought they dialed the wrong number, because why would someone you barely know ask to come along on your vacation?

Otherwise, I'd be inclined to go with ignoring it, and being cool but polite if you see them again.

If they try again a "We barely know you, why would we go on vacation with you. Please leave us alone" would be perfectly acceptable.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: sammycat on June 13, 2014, 10:07:41 PM
I'm jumping on board to say ignore the call. Don't respond. And yes, block the number.

I think this woman qualifies for the ehell 'nerve of the week' award.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: shhh its me on June 13, 2014, 11:03:37 PM
   I think you can ignore her.   IF she happens to "catch you" and asked again this is a "no" is a complete sentence situation. "Why would I want to do that?" or I think you can even apply Miss manners "If you forgive me for not answering, I'll forgive you for asking."* paraphrasing the quote*   (I know thats normally for very intrusive questions but I think it works here too) 
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: FauxFoodist on June 14, 2014, 12:23:18 AM
I'm on board with ignore the call and block the number.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Mister E on June 14, 2014, 12:43:52 AM
Wow some people have got a lot of nerve! Yeah I agree go ahead and block her. I'm very interested to hear how this all turns out though.

Ed.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: MariaE on June 14, 2014, 01:16:08 AM
My only concern would be if they could be the kind of people who took no answer as an affirmative? Any possibility they could just show up?

If not, I agree. Don't answer and block if possible (I can't block numbers on my phone, so don't know if you can).
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: m2kbug on June 14, 2014, 12:19:18 PM
My only concern would be if they could be the kind of people who took no answer as an affirmative? Any possibility they could just show up?

If not, I agree. Don't answer and block if possible (I can't block numbers on my phone, so don't know if you can).

I just put block on my phone, so now I have that option, but if you don't have block abilities, what I have done is program them into my phone with "No Answer Olga," or just "Don't answer," where you would put someone's name, so when the number comes up on caller ID, that's what you see (assuming there's caller ID).  This will only work if you have slots available to use in the "address book" section of the phone (house phone, I don't have a cell).  Also getting "privacy block" or "anonymous call rejection," so people have to unblock their number to get through is a good idea.  Otherwise, avoid answering any unrecognized numbers.  You may run into the problem of having to answer the phone because you're expecting a call, where you end up blindsided by the offending person, so you need to have something in mind to say just in case.  Old fashioned answering machines for screening calls is useful here as well. :)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roe on June 14, 2014, 12:49:16 PM
I think ignoring the call says more than actually responding. I'd ignore. Let her stew in her own rudeness.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Perfect Circle on June 14, 2014, 12:52:33 PM
I'm a bit torn. My first reaction would be to ignore but if there is any danger they would just turn up I'd call straight away and say no way, no how.

I am shocked at the gall of some people.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: FauxFoodist on June 14, 2014, 01:05:58 PM
I'm a bit torn. My first reaction would be to ignore but if there is any danger they would just turn up I'd call straight away and say no way, no how.

I am shocked at the gall of some people.

I guess I really wouldn't be worried about them just turning up; I'd have no problem at this point of my life telling virtual strangers who showed up that they may not stay at my home and invite themselves on our vacation (learned to do it when I was 16 and dealing with a transient teenage couple who had taken to showing up at my home and expecting lodging so I've learned since then to run scenarios in my head for a prepared response when a difficult situation looks like it might occur).
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Perfect Circle on June 14, 2014, 01:13:28 PM
Oh, I would not have any problem with telling to go away. However, it would certainly add a bit of drama to my holiday I could definitely do without ;-)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on June 14, 2014, 01:15:12 PM
Ignore and do not engage. 

I also own timeshares.  Amazing the number of people that have expected to have a free vacation on my dime.  Fell for it only once, lesson well learned.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Night Audit Woman on June 14, 2014, 02:05:40 PM
Former Night Audit Woman here, who also worked the reception desk at a large resort for 9 years. Yes, people do show up unexpectedly trying to get into other people's condo's.

The resort I worked at was run by college students on the weekends with no managers on site. Mistakes happened.

Hopefully she does not know your vacation dates and can not find them out if she calls your vacation spot. Make sure she can't. Not to scare you but, I wouldn't put it past her to just show up.

My vote is in to call her back and tell her "hell no" so that there are no misunderstandings.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: VorFemme on June 14, 2014, 02:36:59 PM
We own several time shares.  We have invited family & select friends to join us in the past.  VorGuy is an introvert - so we do not invite other people every time, just when he feels up to it...

Having someone call out of the blue like that would have them added to the firm list of people that would never get an invitation.  Ever.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 14, 2014, 05:34:31 PM
Thanks everyone!  Her phone number has been blocked.  Especially because when we got back after having lunch with our youngest, Caller ID showed two hang-up calls from that number. :)

She doesn't know which timeshare we own, as it isn't the same one our friends own.  The city in Mexico is a large city with many timeshares, so it would be difficult for them to even find us by calling various resorts.

And if through some magic they did show up, the unit we rent for the four of us is a one bedroom, two bathroom unit with a maximum occupation limit of four.  We as owners are the ones who list the names of the people staying with us and no one else is even allowed into the resort unless they are on that particular list.  :)

I assume she does this sort of thing because it was worked for them in the past.  It just isn't going to work this time.  I actually feel for our friends, as they are going to have to deal with constant requests to stay with them in 2016.

Oh, and it appears that they attempted to invite themselves along on our friends trip to Seattle for a christening.  I did not know this and my friend says that she was relentless about asking even though this was a family reunion type event with them not knowing a single person there other than our friends.  :)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Possum on June 14, 2014, 05:55:39 PM
Either no response, or a flat "I'm sorry, we cannot accommodate your request," with no further response.

How cheeky of her!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: PastryGoddess on June 14, 2014, 07:23:26 PM
Thanks everyone!  Her phone number has been blocked.  Especially because when we got back after having lunch with our youngest, Caller ID showed two hang-up calls from that number. :)

She doesn't know which timeshare we own, as it isn't the same one our friends own.  The city in Mexico is a large city with many timeshares, so it would be difficult for them to even find us by calling various resorts.

And if through some magic they did show up, the unit we rent for the four of us is a one bedroom, two bathroom unit with a maximum occupation limit of four.  We as owners are the ones who list the names of the people staying with us and no one else is even allowed into the resort unless they are on that particular list.  :)

I assume she does this sort of thing because it was worked for them in the past.  It just isn't going to work this time.  I actually feel for our friends, as they are going to have to deal with constant requests to stay with them in 2016.

Oh, and it appears that they attempted to invite themselves along on our friends trip to Seattle for a christening.  I did not know this and my friend says that she was relentless about asking even though this was a family reunion type event with them not knowing a single person there other than our friends.  :)

After reading this, chutzpah is too tame of a word for these people
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 14, 2014, 07:32:11 PM
Yeah, those people are a piece of work (pieces of work, since there are two of them?).

If I were your other friends, I really wouldn't care to preserve the friendship, and so I'd be totally on board with either of you saying, "We are not close enough friends for the things you are asking. Don't ask again."
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: sammycat on June 14, 2014, 10:27:52 PM
Thanks everyone!  Her phone number has been blocked.  Especially because when we got back after having lunch with our youngest, Caller ID showed two hang-up calls from that number. :)

She doesn't know which timeshare we own, as it isn't the same one our friends own.  The city in Mexico is a large city with many timeshares, so it would be difficult for them to even find us by calling various resorts.

And if through some magic they did show up, the unit we rent for the four of us is a one bedroom, two bathroom unit with a maximum occupation limit of four.  We as owners are the ones who list the names of the people staying with us and no one else is even allowed into the resort unless they are on that particular list.  :)

I assume she does this sort of thing because it was worked for them in the past.  It just isn't going to work this time.  I actually feel for our friends, as they are going to have to deal with constant requests to stay with them in 2016.

Oh, and it appears that they attempted to invite themselves along on our friends trip to Seattle for a christening.  I did not know this and my friend says that she was relentless about asking even though this was a family reunion type event with them not knowing a single person there other than our friends.  :)

 :o :o :o :( :o

You've whet my appetite now and I'm very curious as to how she managed to pull this off in this past. >:D :-\ 

I'm surprised someone this rude actually has any friends to invite themselves to stay with.  Then again, they're not friends with OP, and yet they still invited themselves to stay with her, so....
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: zyrs on June 15, 2014, 12:01:13 AM
I think what shocks me the most, is we don't really even know these people.  I doubt if I could pick either of them out in a crowd.

Would it be rude to block her phone number?  We have the type of set-up that allows unlimited blocking of phone numbers.  All someone gets if they call our number (after being blocked) is a message that this line is no longer in service.

I think blocking her number would be a great idea and save you messages in the future
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: GSNW on June 15, 2014, 03:29:05 PM
WOW.  I'm almost embarrassed for them.  I honestly don't think it would be ride of you or your friends to say, "I want you to understand very clearly that we have not invited you, we will not invite you, your request cannot be accommodated."  This in case she manages to circumvent the block and get ahold of you.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roses on June 15, 2014, 09:36:17 PM
WOW.  I'm almost embarrassed for them.  I honestly don't think it would be ride of you or your friends to say, "I want you to understand very clearly that we have not invited you, we will not invite you, your request cannot be accommodated."  This in case she manages to circumvent the block and get ahold of you.

This.  Someone with this much nerve is not going to go away easily.  I'd add to the above and request that they stop contacting you.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Margo on June 16, 2014, 06:56:48 AM
Wow.

My sister had a similar experience - she and her husband own a holiday flat in Turkey. In her case, it was someone she knew slightly through work, but not socially. She sent an e-mail to their wok email  saying "Just thought you ought to know that a scam artist seems to be trying to use your name - we had a phone message from someone pretending to be you, trying to invite themselves onto a holiday with us,. We assume it was some sort scam - don't now whether they were trying to get details of when our house will be empty, or when the flat will be, we were immediately  suspicious because we knew you would never be so rude as to invite yourself to our flat,  but we thought you'd want to know that someone is using your name - you may want to let your friends and amil know, in case someone has hacked our address book or something."

(I can't speak to the exact wording, but it was along those lines. It worked)
 If they try to contact you again, and if you or your friends have an e-mail address for them, then something like this might be worth trying!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 16, 2014, 11:10:48 AM
I think the worst that will happen is the possibility of her sending us a letter in the mail.  She doesn't have access to our email addresses and she only tried once more to call and was blocked (my spouse can check that online) and got the message that the phone number was no longer in service.

I wish I could tell everyone more about her, but I really don't know either of them very well and have only rarely heard my friend talk about them.

I did get an email from my friend apologizing profusely for what her friend had done.  She wrote:

"It took us forever to convince them that they weren't coming to Seattle, and after that, she wrote back to invite themselves to Mexico in February again….Now I get to tell her it’s our year with you and there’s no room….sigh! 

You need to tell me how to deal with this….My husbands saying I just need to insult her enough so she’ll go away!  I don’t want to do that but have no idea how to proceed."

I will gratefully pass along any ideas people here would care to share.  I do know that my friend has an absolutely terrible time telling people no.

 
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on June 16, 2014, 11:47:05 AM
Well, with my Dad, I had to be very blunt.  The best thing I did was cut him off from the information flow.  He didn't know when I would be using it anymore.  That was between me and the resort only.  I also kept in mind that it is rude to talk about a vacation trip in front of people who aren't invited.  So I clammed up.  I made my plans, beandipped when asked, and did my thing. 

He still tried to shanghai my reservation for his friends to use ONCE and I went a bit ballistic on him.  After that, complete silence and a raised eyebrow whenever it came up.  Every once in a while he tries to guilt trip me about it, though. 

First thing I would do to shut her down is cut direct her for a while.  Be a useless target for manipulation.  Forget she exists.  Do not engage.  Hopefully she'll start looking for someone new to leech off of.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 16, 2014, 11:50:23 AM
.Now I get to tell her it’s our year with you and there’s no room….sigh! 



I would suggest that your friend not do this--because it implies that if only there were room, they'd be willing to share their hard-won vacation space with them.

She should say, "I'm sorry--we reserve our vacation condo for our family and close friends. Please don't ask again."

The underlying message is, "you're not a close friend."
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on June 16, 2014, 11:56:40 AM
POD to Toots.  She should stop giving so much information.  She's JADEing and just giving Ms Battering Ram a spot on the door to hit.

Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Mergatroyd on June 16, 2014, 12:15:16 PM
.Now I get to tell her it’s our year with you and there’s no room….sigh! 



I would suggest that your friend not do this--because it implies that if only there were room, they'd be willing to share their hard-won vacation space with them.

She should say, "I'm sorry--we reserve our vacation condo for our family and close friends. Please don't ask again."

The underlying message is, "you're not a close friend."

Pod this.

My DH would probably say, "Are you serious? why would I want to take you on MY vacation? I barely even know you! Don't ask again."

I wouldn't be surprised if you saw them there though. They tracked down your phone number, who knows what else they can track down.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 16, 2014, 12:29:56 PM
I am fairly sure (knowing my friend) that the way she talks about her vacation is posting pictures to Facebook when we/they are in Mexico.  Plus I admit to being confused.  :)  I know better than to talk about parties/weddings in front of people who aren't invited.  But vacations seem to fall into a different category for me.

Most people (normal people I would like to think)  :)  are well aware that they aren't going to be invited on other people's vacations.  Parties and weddings are the kind of thing that someone could conceivably be invited to, because the level of closeness to someone you would invite to a party or wedding would most likely be different than inviting someone to go on a vacation.

Most people I know talk about their vacations before they go on them (and often get helpful information from people who have been or gone to that particular place before) and they share pictures after.  I just never considered talking about vacations to fall under the same etiquette rule as talking about parties or weddings.  :)  I will have to think more about this.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 16, 2014, 12:33:03 PM
I will also share with my friend the JADE acronym and what it stands for.  I don't know, but I think it will be a difficult habit for her to break, but so necessary when dealing with her friend.

Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Lorelei_Evil on June 16, 2014, 12:33:44 PM
They do in my family, because they're a bunch of boundary stompers.  Even a casual mention became "yay, WE're going to XYZ!"  Your mileage may vary quite a bit.

I could fill thread after thread with tale after tale.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 16, 2014, 12:36:39 PM
I will also share with my friend the JADE acronym and what it stands for.  I don't know, but I think it will be a difficult habit for her to break, but so necessary when dealing with her friend.

We've all been trained to give excuses--it's a deniability thing. We don't want to say "we don't like you that much," because it's hurtful.

With most people that's a good thing.

But when you run into pushy people like this, you just have to do it.

And note that my phrasing doesn't say "we *don't* like you." It just says "only this group," and it uses a group that denies other people entry without being rejecting.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 16, 2014, 12:37:08 PM
They do in my family, because they're a bunch of boundary stompers.  Even a casual mention became "yay, WE're going to XYZ!"  Your mileage may vary quite a bit.

I could fill thread after thread with tale after tale.

I would love to hear some of the stories if you would care to post them.  :) 

I have never, ever had anyone ask (until now) to go on vacation with us.  In fact, before this woman, I had never even heard of anyone else talking about how someone had invited themselves on someone else's vacation. :)  Parties, yes...I have definitely heard stories of people inviting themselves to parties, but not vacations for some reason.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 16, 2014, 12:43:30 PM
They do in my family, because they're a bunch of boundary stompers.  Even a casual mention became "yay, WE're going to XYZ!"  Your mileage may vary quite a bit.

I could fill thread after thread with tale after tale.

I would love to hear some of the stories if you would care to post them.  :) 

I have never, ever had anyone ask (until now) to go on vacation with us.  In fact, before this woman, I had never even heard of anyone else talking about how someone had invited themselves on someone else's vacation. :)  Parties, yes...I have definitely heard stories of people inviting themselves to parties, but not vacations for some reason.

My ILs did, back when they were my boyfriend's parents. In fact, my boyfriend did, and then his parents horned in.
   They're lucky I didn't break up with them all!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 16, 2014, 12:52:04 PM
I will also share with my friend the JADE acronym and what it stands for.  I don't know, but I think it will be a difficult habit for her to break, but so necessary when dealing with her friend.

We've all been trained to give excuses--it's a deniability thing. We don't want to say "we don't like you that much," because it's hurtful.

With most people that's a good thing.

But when you run into pushy people like this, you just have to do it.

And note that my phrasing doesn't say "we *don't* like you." It just says "only this group," and it uses a group that denies other people entry without being rejecting.

That makes a great deal of sense and I will explain it to my friend the same way you explained it to me.  :)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: jedikaiti on June 16, 2014, 01:02:10 PM
I agree, your friend needs to learn not to JADE with this person. Not one bit. Not to discuss vacation plans with this friend at all. Not to say they're doing something with you, or that you are joining them. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Any excuses as to WHY this person wasn't invited along will only serve to give her a target to hammer on (as a PP alluded to) for future vacations.

If directly asked about vacation plans, I suggest only the vaguest of answers, followed by a big dose of bean dip. "Oh yes, we've been giving some thought to our future plans. How's the bean dip?" or "Last year's vacation was lovely. Bean dip?" And that's it.

When the other person asks to join future vacations, a quick "I'm afraid that won't be possible," followed by a liberal dose of bean dip might be the best solution. Your friend should refuse to JADE at all, or even to answer any questions as to why. Just say no, and bean dip.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on June 16, 2014, 01:57:04 PM
Wow.

My sister had a similar experience - she and her husband own a holiday flat in Turkey. In her case, it was someone she knew slightly through work, but not socially. She sent an e-mail to their wok email  saying "Just thought you ought to know that a scam artist seems to be trying to use your name - we had a phone message from someone pretending to be you, trying to invite themselves onto a holiday with us,. We assume it was some sort scam - don't now whether they were trying to get details of when our house will be empty, or when the flat will be, we were immediately  suspicious because we knew you would never be so rude as to invite yourself to our flat,  but we thought you'd want to know that someone is using your name - you may want to let your friends and amil know, in case someone has hacked our address book or something."

(I can't speak to the exact wording, but it was along those lines. It worked)
 If they try to contact you again, and if you or your friends have an e-mail address for them, then something like this might be worth trying!

Brilliant.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: lowspark on June 16, 2014, 02:32:31 PM
I gotta wonder why your friends are still friends with these people. If I were your friend, I'd block them on my facebook and end it.

Too bad someone didn't take these people aside back when they were about 12 years old and say, "It's rude to invite yourself to things. Don't do it."
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 16, 2014, 02:40:48 PM
People have probably been telling them, "It never hurts to ask."
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: gemma156 on June 16, 2014, 04:34:18 PM
Silence is an answer.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: sammycat on June 16, 2014, 07:03:52 PM
One thing your friend should do is block this woman from being able to see any posts or pictures about her holidays on facebook. If she doesn't have access to the dates, specific location etc that may lessen the chances of her trying to hone in. Hopefully.

I have never, ever had anyone ask (until now) to go on vacation with us.  In fact, before this woman, I had never even heard of anyone else talking about how someone had invited themselves on someone else's vacation. :)  Parties, yes...I have definitely heard stories of people inviting themselves to parties, but not vacations for some reason.

Same here. Maybe I should be insulted that no one wants to go on holiday with us, lol. ;D (We've planned holidays with people, but that was from the get-go, not them just deciding to jump on board). Or perhaps I should just be thankful that aside from a few joking "can I come in your suitcase" type comments, my friends and family seem to know that adding yourself to someone else's holiday is just not the done thing.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roe on June 16, 2014, 07:29:52 PM
They do in my family, because they're a bunch of boundary stompers.  Even a casual mention became "yay, WE're going to XYZ!"  Your mileage may vary quite a bit.

I could fill thread after thread with tale after tale.

I would love to hear some of the stories if you would care to post them.  :) 

I have never, ever had anyone ask (until now) to go on vacation with us.  In fact, before this woman, I had never even heard of anyone else talking about how someone had invited themselves on someone else's vacation. :)  Parties, yes...I have definitely heard stories of people inviting themselves to parties, but not vacations for some reason.

My ILs did, back when they were my boyfriend's parents. In fact, my boyfriend did, and then his parents horned in.
   They're lucky I didn't break up with them all!

My SIL, K'nnihave, asked and did join us on a vacation to Disney. I posted it to eHell. It was horrible!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roe on June 16, 2014, 07:30:33 PM
People have probably been telling them, "It never hurts to ask."

Yep, this is what happens with that kind of mentality.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: VorFemme on June 18, 2014, 06:16:04 PM
I will also share with my friend the JADE acronym and what it stands for.  I don't know, but I think it will be a difficult habit for her to break, but so necessary when dealing with her friend.

We've all been trained to give excuses--it's a deniability thing. We don't want to say "we don't like you that much," because it's hurtful.

With most people that's a good thing.

But when you run into pushy people like this, you just have to do it.

And note that my phrasing doesn't say "we *don't* like you." It just says "only this group," and it uses a group that denies other people entry without being rejecting.

That makes a great deal of sense and I will explain it to my friend the same way you explained it to me.  :)

Slight detour - but it does relate, if you think about it.

I sew.  I sew for myself, my spouse, my kids, the grandbaby, my parents, nieces & nephews, and various in-laws - when I have the time, the energy, and know that there is something that they would *like* to have made for them.  I do not sew for random people. 

I have been asked if I would sew something for someone (sister-in-law can't sew - they'd bought a costume in a kit for a niece).  I sewed that up that evening in exchange for them inviting us to dinner because I would not have time to make dinner for my family AND sew the costume up. 

BG - They had not asked in advance if I would do it - I was picking up DD from their house and niece asked me point blank if I could/would do it because her mommy "didn't know how".  It was the day before Halloween...so if it was going to be ready for Trick or Treating, I had to sew it that night.  I did *not* want to fix dinner at home then stay up half the night sewing (machine in our bedroom) and then be exhausted the next day. 

Several years later, a co-worker asked the same question.  I told her that I would sew for her if she cleaned house & fixed dinner for my family while I was doing the sewing for her - as I only had time after work to do either my own housework or the sewing.  She declined to drive thirty miles to fix dinner & clean my house, for some reason.

I have several relatives who have been asked to join us at one time or another at the time share.  DD & her family showed up.  My parents showed up several times, with a nephew or nieces in tow.  My sister has shown up.  Other friends & family members have been invited but have declined or cancelled instead.

The only person who tried to invite themselves was a SIL and the mother of the nieces who had been there before twice (invited a third time - but they decided that they didn't want Grandma & Grandpa to take them because they drive too slow or some such comment [where Grandpa heard it] and their parents were not able to take the time off work to drive them instead). 

Grandma & Grandpa decided to have a stay-cation that year instead of spending a day driving from their house to Brother's house, three days driving from Brother's house to Orlando, a week in Orlando, then three days driving back to Brother's house, and another day driving home.  As they were in their mid-seventies at the time, I assumed that they knew how much energy they wanted to spend.  DD & her family as well as VorSon, VorGuy, and I sprawled out over the three bedroom time share and enjoyed the heck out of it.  Privacy for six people is better than little or no privacy for ten people...although we could have had up to 12 in that three bedroom unit...with three bathrooms.

We have asked Brother & his family about going with us - but they apparently don't plan out their vacation over a year in advance (if we don't make reservations 13 months in advance, we have additional charges to pay - so we plan things well in advance).  If they want to be more spontaneous, then they can be.  But we might only have a one bedroom reserved in advance and there could be no way to change that due to "no room at the inn" if they ask about joining us a month earlier. 

Or we could have already gotten into the mind set of "it's just the two of us" and not want to add anyone at all - not even a grandchild.   

Rather like your already planned and reservations made for a one bedroom with close enough friends that you don't *mind* sharing with them.  The random friends of friends can get over it or die mad.

At this point, it might actually be easier on your friend if the woman decides to "teach her a lesson" but cutting her off for a while.  Sometimes the best gift from a mooch is their absence...
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: missmolly on June 19, 2014, 07:51:58 AM
I remember an old post, (probably deleted now), where a poster was taking an annual family holiday to Florida, and a particularly annoying parent with a spoiled child tried to invite her child along with the family - essentially she wanted the OP to take an extra kid along, pay all her expenses and provide free babysitting. When the OP gave a very firm no, the mother tried to book a holiday for herself and the kid at the same resorts/parks as the family. From what I can remember she couldn't really afford it and didn't end up going, but still tried to pressure the OP in sharing holiday details so that she would share her vacation whether she wanted to or not!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: BabyMama on June 19, 2014, 09:38:39 AM
My in-laws (husband's brother and his wife) have asked as well--my grandparents own a small cabin on a lake, and they very strongly hinted that they'd like to be invited.

It's really a very small cabin--there are two small private bedrooms, one for my grandparents and one for whichever couple shows up first, and then one large room with two queens, one twin, and one very, very uncomfortable cot that nobody sleeps on unless they have to. There's also a pullout couch, which is in the middle of the living room. My BIL's family has 4 kids (and they always seem to be dragging in extra kids everywhere.) Their family would cause an overflow, even if none of my family was there.

We've considered inviting their kids along one at a time--that's what my parents did with my cousins when we were kids--but (and this sounds terrible) I just don't like any of them enough to spend 5 hours one way in the car with them, and then a long weekend watching them.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Eden on June 19, 2014, 09:53:33 AM
I think the OP has gotten great advice so I'll just chime in with a similar tale. I posted once about my SIL confronting me (loudly in the middle of a party) telling me she expected to be invited on my next vacation. I had vacationed with other siblings but never talked about them in front of anyone else ahead of time. It was a big (calm on my side) confrontation and ended with my SIL in tears because I simply pointed out she was putting me in a bad position and that I do not vacation with every person whom I love. Some are vacation buddies, some are not.

I think the thing that bothered me the most about the whole thing (besides the public confrontation) and similar stories I've read here is that SIL made the whole thing my responsibility. If my SIL wants to vacation with me, how about trying to plan something with me rather than demand inclusion in my plans?
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Redneck Gravy on June 19, 2014, 10:57:04 AM
Well I am going to go against the grain and say call her back and say no that will not be possible. I'm the first to say don't engage the crazy but I think you need to nip this thing in the bud right now.  And let your friends off the hook with the guilt - this is one crazy woman.

I know you blocked her from your phone but she may be (probably is) resourceful enough to track down another method for reaching you (snail mail, email, work phone ?).

Stop the Insanity Now - call her and say No That Will Not Be Possible, lather, rinse, repeat.

I'm stunned at the request, just stunned!
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Celany on June 19, 2014, 12:03:58 PM
People have probably been telling them, "It never hurts to ask."

Yep, this is what happens with that kind of mentality.

I'd just like to say I think there's a huge difference between "it never hurts to ask" and "I am going to pester the crap out of you until you cave"

In many cases, I don't think it necessarily hurts to *ask*, but after a no (and no explanations needed on that no) is tendered, the subject needs to be dropped.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 19, 2014, 12:08:23 PM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Ceallach on June 22, 2014, 02:12:45 AM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: sammycat on June 22, 2014, 02:15:35 AM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Runningstar on June 22, 2014, 07:00:47 AM
Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: iridaceae on June 22, 2014, 07:09:37 AM
I've had co-workers ask if they could be stowed in my luggage..... does that count?
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on June 22, 2014, 08:20:06 AM
I've had co-workers ask if they could be stowed in my luggage..... does that count?

I hope not, I do that all the time, in a just kidding way. We all laugh in a tired way and its not mentioned again
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on June 22, 2014, 08:22:11 AM
Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

What in the dog's breath Gone Mind was she thinking  ??? :o
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roe on June 22, 2014, 11:37:03 AM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

Pod. I also find the "it doesn't hurt to ask so long as you accept no" to be, not only strange, but rude. IME, it's rude to put someone on the spot.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Tea Drinker on June 22, 2014, 01:19:48 PM
"It doesn't hurt to ask" is more defensible if the asking is an offer than a request: "would you like to have lunch with me Saturday?" to someone you've never done social stuff with, or who you know is very busy, is often okay. That's the sort of thing where I sometimes have to remind myself that it's okay to ask, because the worst that will happen is the person will say no: sometimes it's someone who already knows I like them, and once in a while it might be a new/casual acquaintance, but there, the worst likely outcome is that they say no, and I say something like "OK, thanks anyhow" or just talk about something else.

It's the difference between asking a person if they want to do something with me, and asking them to do something for me.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: FauxFoodist on June 22, 2014, 01:57:29 PM
Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

So what *was* her response when you went off on her, since polite noes did not work at all and she completed crossed the line by smugly telling you she'd be there after all?  Was this a story that ended up making its rounds at work (because I just couldn't imagine someone like this keeping her mouth shut given how she felt she should be able to go on your vacation)?
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Runningstar on June 22, 2014, 06:23:24 PM
Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

So what *was* her response when you went off on her, since polite noes did not work at all and she completed crossed the line by smugly telling you she'd be there after all?  Was this a story that ended up making its rounds at work (because I just couldn't imagine someone like this keeping her mouth shut given how she felt she should be able to go on your vacation)?
She tried the whole poor me routine to others, but the only thing I heard from them was how shocked they were about what she had tried to do and had done.   Sad to say, but when the blow out happened, a lot of people heard it.  Not very professional on my part either, hopefully I'd be more mature about it now.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: sammycat on June 22, 2014, 06:48:19 PM
Wow, this very thing happened to me years ago.  A co-worker heard about my vacation plans at my uncle's place and decided that since she wanted to come along, I told her no.  She requested time off from work & got it.  Then she informed me that I would be including her in my plans.  I told her no, she tried to use the request for time off against that (as in - but I've made significant steps in order to come and if you deny me I'll lose my vacation time).  She had met my uncle a few times, called him about it.  He didn't know that this vulture had been told no by me and assumed that I had told her to get directions and info from him.  She then smugly informed me that she'd be there that Friday with wine and food.  I went ballistic, ending with very non etiquette approved things.  We went from being cheerful and friendly co-workers to completely silent ones.  We both went on to other jobs and I've never seen her again. 
Not really advice, but hindsight for the OP?  The first no from me was a smiling (cause I thought that she must be kidding) one.  The second was a little bit dismayed one, and the third was over the top.  I should have been firm and not at all so gentle for the first no.  If these people do manage to get in touch somehow with you, be firm right away.

 :o :o

Unless your uncle's name is Walt* and he happens to have a huge (theme) park in the backyard, I can't imagine that visiting a co-worker's uncle's house would be worth all this trouble.  (I'm sure your uncle is a lovely man, but this just seems so strange!).

*Yes, I'm aware Walt Disney has passed away.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Celany on June 24, 2014, 10:25:07 AM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

Pod. I also find the "it doesn't hurt to ask so long as you accept no" to be, not only strange, but rude. IME, it's rude to put someone on the spot.

Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I would never randomly ask/demand someone that I barely knew (like what happened to the OP), but if I was close enough to someone that they were sharing  details of their trips (or of their life) with me, then it wouldn't strike me as rude to make a question/statement mentioning that I'd be interested in X thing too. Am I incorrect in that thinking?
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: omjulie on June 24, 2014, 02:11:16 PM
I've never had anyone quite this persistent, but my way of brushing off people asking for an invitation is usually to say something like, "Oh, it's just going to be me and [person], actually. Sorry." No justifying it, no explaining, and do not add the phrase "this time" if you don't want them to think they might be invited next time. If they're a person I genuinely do want to spend time with, then I offer to schedule something with them another time. If not, I just leave it at that. I've been in some social circles where inviting oneself along to things was very common, and that response seems to work well without seriously hurting anyone's feelings. The key is to keep your tone sort of brisk and polite and then move on from the subject quickly. Don't act overly apologetic or wait around for them to respond - you want to make it clear that you expect them to take it well and be reasonable about it, and you're so sure they're going to react that way that you don't feel the need to check for their actual response. Most people pick up the cue when you do that and follow your lead onto a different topic of discussion.

If I get a "but whyyyyyyy" type answer or they try to argue about why they should come, I just act a bit uncomfortable, and then say, "That's just how it is" or "No, that won't work" or just change the subject without responding. With the few very obnoxious people I've known, I just tell them no once and then never engage on the topic again if I can help it - whenever they bring it up, I just give them a slightly confused look and change the subject.

If your friend's friend is really so persistent that she can't beandip her way out of it, she can always try saying, "I'm sorry, but this is very awkward for me. Would you rather wait to talk until after I get back from my vacation?" And then when friend inevitably tries to argue her case again, just say, "I already told you it won't be possible. I'm sure you can find your own vacation for the same timeframe. Let's talk again after we both get back." And then she needs to leave, and not engage on the topic again unless it's to say (with increasing impatience), "We've already talked about this." Basically, once she gives the initial "no," she should just refer back to that - this friend needs no new information, because she already has all the info about the trip that she needs (namely, that she is not invited).

Personally I think it's OK to say "I'm sorry" if that makes your friend feel better, but she shouldn't linger on the apology or be overly conciliatory about it - just say the words, since they're so ingrained, and then find something else to do. I find that's the best thing for people who have trouble saying no - find lots of things they suddenly need to be busy doing so they don't have to deal with the aftermath and can get their nerves under control in private.

Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I would never randomly ask/demand someone that I barely knew (like what happened to the OP), but if I was close enough to someone that they were sharing  details of their trips (or of their life) with me, then it wouldn't strike me as rude to make a question/statement mentioning that I'd be interested in X thing too. Am I incorrect in that thinking?

I think that's fine, though it might be better to let her give you an opening before asking. If someone says, "We usually vacation with So-and-So, but they can't come this year," then it makes more sense to say, "Oh, well, we're available if you're looking for someone to help split costs." But I do think your way is fine since you didn't say "Can I go this year?" but rather, "If at some point in some hypothetical future you're thinking of inviting someone new along, we would be interested," which is rather a different thing IMO.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Another Sarah on June 25, 2014, 04:18:52 AM
Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I think there's a vast difference between what you asked, and saying, 'Oh a beach vacation?? I LOVE beaches!! Can I come next time?  Oh let me see....of course John has to come with me, and John's friend Marsha, and the baby.  And the nieces, can't forget the nieces.  That'll be 5 more people at our next vacation!  Won't that be FUN?'

Yeah. Big difference.

What I'd say was rude about your example was the presumption, not the question. I'm not arguing it's rude to decide you're coming on someone else's vacation but saying "Oh a beach vacation to Thatplaceyoualwaysgo? I love beaches and I've always wanted to see Thatplaceyoualwaysgo! Would you like to all go together some time?" is not rude in the slightest.

Where it becomes rude to me is where "no" is not accepted. But we see that all the time on eHell, where a seemingly polite request turns into a spiderweb of arguments and pleading to get you to do what you have already said no to.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Mammavan3 on June 25, 2014, 03:11:47 PM
I think a blunt but honest refusal would be best for your friend. "Our condos only accommodate four people, and we always vacation with so-and-so, so there is no room for additional people."

At my age, even four people in a one-bedroom unit would be problematic. Six would be out of the question.

Unless, of course, she wants to say, "if you'd like to join us, the condo fee to add additional people would be $XXX," a sum that would be significantly higher than two weeks at the most luxurious resort.
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Roe on June 25, 2014, 04:29:48 PM
Op, how did you choose to respond?
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Figgie on June 25, 2014, 07:00:23 PM
We put her number on ignore and after trying a few more times and getting the message that our phone number is no longer in service, she appears to have stopped trying to call us. 

I shared some of the suggestions on how to say no from this thread with my friend.  When we talked on the phone this past weekend, she had not heard from her friend and so had not had the opportunity to use any of the advice from this thread yet.  :)
Title: Re: How or Even If I Should Respond?
Post by: Ceallach on June 29, 2014, 06:59:16 PM
I think there are a great many cases where it hurts to ask. It's not appropriate.
I would even say in most cases, you shouldn't ask--or, if you stop to think whether you should ask--you shouldn't.

I agree.  There are many requests that are inappropriate or put the person you're asking in a very awkward position.   

I always find the "it's ok to ask if you politely accept a no" generalisation to be strange.   It's ok to ask something appropriate, but there are many things which it's never, ever ok to ask!  Or people whom it's inappropriate to ask certain things of.   I can think of a dozen examples without even trying.

Agreed.

Pod. I also find the "it doesn't hurt to ask so long as you accept no" to be, not only strange, but rude. IME, it's rude to put someone on the spot.

Really? I know this woman was clearly rude, but if my friend has been telling me about her great beach vacations for years & I say to her one day "you know, I'd love to join you guys sometime, if you're looking for new people to join in. But if not, no worries.' Would that be rude?

I know that's not a question, per se (and I gave her an out) so does that make it different/less rude?

I would never randomly ask/demand someone that I barely knew (like what happened to the OP), but if I was close enough to someone that they were sharing  details of their trips (or of their life) with me, then it wouldn't strike me as rude to make a question/statement mentioning that I'd be interested in X thing too. Am I incorrect in that thinking?

The difference in the way you propose is that you're not putting them on the spot - you're expressing a general interest in vacationing with them one day as part of conversation.   If they're not interested then it's easy enough for them to ignore or beandip and because you're polite you'll never raise it again, there's no awkwardness and no need for them to try to work out how to turn you down or set you straight.     

It's putting them on the spot if you were to make a specific, outright request of somebody beyond the reasonable demands of your relationship and circumstances.