Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 06:43:19 AM

Title: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 06:43:19 AM
The parking threads have got me thinking about a situation I used to run into many years ago.

Back in a past life - so this is no longer an active issue, just presented for discussion - my ex and I used to go out car-booting on a Sunday morning and on the way we would stop at our local McDonald's to grab some breakfast to take away.  This particular branch was in the town centre (ie, not a drive through or even with its own parking). Parking was extremely limited, since it was on a small and narrow street, and there were perhaps 5 or 6 bays in the whole street and we'd often have to drive around the block a few times before we got a space. Around the corner, not far away at all but far enough that you wouldn't want to walk it with two hands' full of Maccy D's and a drinks tray, was a street with completely unlimited parking which was always empty.

I used to insist that once we'd been in and grabbed what we needed, we moved the car to the other street to eat it, so that other people who wanted to run in could have the space.

He, on the other hand, liked to sit in the space we were already in and eat rather than move the car maybe a hundred feet around the corner which took literally ten or fifteen seconds. His rationale was that he wasn't doing anything wrong and the space was now his to use as he pleased for however long he pleased. Mine was that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should; I thought this was really inconsiderate, especially considering that ten minutes before we'd been driving around waiting for a space to open up so *we* could park and run in, and wouldn't it be nice not to put other people through that?

We rowed about it pretty much every week (because by that time we were at the stage of butting heads just because we could).

What would EHell do in this situation?
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: knitwicca on June 15, 2014, 06:54:07 AM
Why not drop the passenger off to order and get the food while the driver circled around? Then find a quiet place to park and eat?
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: veryfluffy on June 15, 2014, 07:30:39 AM
I probably would have parked the car in the other street to start off with, then eaten my food in the restaurant.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: I'mnotinsane on June 15, 2014, 08:34:26 AM
Was he driving?  If so, you should have driven and then you could have moved it without discussion.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 09:26:45 AM
Was he driving?  If so, you should have driven and then you could have moved it without discussion.

Not all the time, no. In any case, it was our car, we jointly owned it, and I don't subscribe to the 'driver always calls the shots' theory.

Why not drop the passenger off to order and get the food while the driver circled around? Then find a quiet place to park and eat?

We did that sometimes if we couldn't find a space. But this discussion always related to when we *could* find a space.

I thought it was very inconsiderate to sit there taking up a space that someone else clearly needed, when we could have moved the car literally a couple of hundred feet around the corner before we started eating.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: m2kbug on June 15, 2014, 09:43:49 AM
I think this can go either way.  If you stayed in the restaurant to eat, it would have been the same thing, a car taking up a much coveted spot.  I'm in the same boat as you, however, that I think I would have preferred to move to the other parking lot and left the space for someone else.  I don't think your husband was wrong, though.  Unless there are signs noting that these spots are for picking up only with a time limit, you are fine to stay there as long as you need. 
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 09:52:18 AM
I think this can go either way.  If you stayed in the restaurant to eat, it would have been the same thing, a car taking up a much coveted spot.  I'm in the same boat as you, however, that I think I would have preferred to move to the other parking lot and left the space for someone else.  I don't think your husband was wrong, though.  Unless there are signs noting that these spots are for picking up only with a time limit, you are fine to stay there as long as you need.

Oh yeah, technically we would be within our rights to park there and eat. I just think it's really inconsiderate when there's another option available and there are people driving around waiting for spots.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: kherbert05 on June 15, 2014, 09:53:05 AM
I would have parked on the the other street and eaten in the restaurant or just done the walk. But I'll park at the Zoo spend the morning there, then walk all over Herman Park and the Museum District.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: shhh its me on June 15, 2014, 09:54:54 AM
   I don't think its rude.  I might  say  inconsiderate but I would definitely say unkind..
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: JenJay on June 15, 2014, 10:21:48 AM
I probably would have wanted to move just because it's more pleasant to sit and eat in a quiet, empty lot rather than a busy curb with people coming and going. I do agree that it was very considerate of you to suggest moving to eat, however, I agree with him that it's appropriate to stay in the spot as long as you're eating and still a customer of the place the spots are for. I think this is a case of "what we should do" versus "what we have to do", where one way may be better but that doesn't make the other way wrong.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:01:54 AM
I do agree that it was very considerate of you to suggest moving to eat, however, I agree with him that it's appropriate to stay in the spot as long as you're eating and still a customer of the place the spots are for.

Just a slight misunderstanding there: This wasn't a 'parking lot' for McDonald's and the spaces aren't for customers of McDonalds. The McDonald's was on a street in the centre of town and they were parking spaces on the street. It's not a McDonald's 'lot', like you get in America, or a 'strip  mall' with a McDonalds on it with its own parking spaces. That's why I thought it was inconsiderate. The spaces aren't for customers of McDonalds. They're parking spaces in the street that the McDonalds happens to be on and they were *very* limited.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: JenJay on June 15, 2014, 11:13:51 AM
I do agree that it was very considerate of you to suggest moving to eat, however, I agree with him that it's appropriate to stay in the spot as long as you're eating and still a customer of the place the spots are for.

Just a slight misunderstanding there: This wasn't a 'parking lot' for McDonald's and the spaces aren't for customers of McDonalds. The McDonald's was on a street in the centre of town and they were parking spaces on the street. It's not a McDonald's 'lot', like you get in America, or a 'strip  mall' with a McDonalds on it with its own parking spaces. That's why I thought it was inconsiderate. The spaces aren't for customers of McDonalds. They're parking spaces in the street that the McDonalds happens to be on and they were *very* limited.

Often times here you'll see signs "For X customers only 8a-6p" (or whatever time) and I thought that's what you were in. I can see where it would be frustrating for the other businesses and their customers to have McD's customers sitting in the spots for 30+ minutes a pop, especially if they were just sitting and eating in the car.

I think that does tip it for me, since it would be so easy to move to the empty lot and doing so would be such a considerate gesture for the other people hoping to park, I do think I would expect us to do so and I would be annoyed if the person with me refused just because "I don't have to".

It might not be technically rude, but I know I'd feel incredibly rude and uncomfortable sitting in one of the limited spots for any longer than I needed to, and I wouldn't consider eating a "need" since it would be so easy to eat elsewhere. I could see sticking around if it would be a long enough drive to another spot that my food had cooled, the ice in my drink was melting, etc., but that's not the case here. I vote with you.  :)
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:15:55 AM
Exactly, plus actually I think that sums up why I didn't like it. We were no longer customers the second we left the premises with the food. If we were in there eating, that's different; we're still customers. But for a takeaway, you're only a customer for the time it takes you to get your food, not to eat it.

(I still think the set up is being misunderstood a bit though; the other businesses don't own the spaces any more than McDonald's does. It's a street with lots of shops on it and a few parking bays along the street, not a mall/business car park. The spots aren't 'for the businesses')

ETA:

Here it is (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.319585,-0.556357,3a,75y,210.33h,86.57t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s50Dhn8p4CsE0Bueu87aepQ!2e0)

It's just a town centre street, see the McD's on the left there. Where the lorry is parked, maybe 2 or 3 cars can get in there. There is another bay a bit further up the street with a similar amount of spaces. The double yellow lines on the rest of the road mean 'no parking'.  What the ex wanted to do, once we'd gone in and got our food and come back out, was sit in the car in that space where the lorry is until we'd finished our food, while other people circled around the block unable to park.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: JenJay on June 15, 2014, 11:24:32 AM
Exactly, plus actually I think that sums up why I didn't like it. We were no longer customers the second we left the premises with the food. If we were in there eating, that's different; we're still customers. But for a takeaway, you're only a customer for the time it takes you to get your food, not to eat it.

(I still think the set up is being misunderstood a bit though; the other businesses don't own the spaces any more than McDonald's does. It's a street with lots of shops on it and a few parking bays along the street, not a mall/business car park. The spots aren't 'for the businesses')

No, I understood what you meant. Anyone is free to use any of the spots for whatever reason. I only meant that, with parking on that street being so limited, it would be especially annoying for the owners and customers of the other businesses on that block to have someone sitting in one of the few spots, eating. Probably less annoying for someone who just wanted to get out and walk around, as the could more easily park anywhere within 1/4 mile or whatever distance they're comfortable walking.

It reminds me of the debate over whether or not it's okay to park right in front of a gas pump, get some gas, and then leave your car and go into the convenience store to buy some snacks or use the restroom. Granted you were pumping gas, so had a legit reason to be in that spot to begin with, and technically you're still a customer of the business in general, but if there are only X number of spots for pumping gas, and other spots nearby for people to use for whatever reason, I think it's incredibly rude to leave your car taking up a gas spot while other people just sit and wait for you to leave. Same as the situation you describe, if someone just wants to be in the area in general and can park anywhere (as you two were while eating), it seems rude to take up one of the few spots that people who want to do immediate business right there are waiting for, even though the spots are for anyone. Does that make more sense?
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:28:28 AM
Yeah, that makes total sense.

I'm really unsure about the petrol station example. It is a similar thing but something always stops me pulling away from the pump in case they think I'm trying to drive off without paying or something (here, you go into the shop to pay *after* you've pumped the petrol. There are some places that you pay by card at the pump but it's not usual). Plus I'm not sure if anyone else can start pumping until you've paid for it and it's 'cleared' anyway.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Luci on June 15, 2014, 11:31:06 AM


He, on the other hand, liked to sit in the space we were already in and eat rather than move the car maybe a hundred feet around the corner which took literally ten or fifteen seconds.

What would EHell do in this situation?

We wouldn't even drive around waiting for a space but just park anywhere. Our lot is 100 feet wide, so I know how short that is, and even three times that much isn't far to carry a couple of meals. We eat in, anyway, but that is certainly your choice, as is driving around waiting for a better spot.

I am assuming that since you were car booting, the weather was OK to walk around in, and even if you were handicapped at that point, the boyfriend could have made the run.

As for rude or not to occupy the space, I don't see how it could be. I would be considerate to move, but not really a big deal.  It was Sunday mornings, so I would be surprised if the other shops were open - but maybe that's my smalltown, midwest US thinking here  :)
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:34:07 AM
No, the other shops weren't open (I was just about to come back to post this!) so most of the people circling were looking for a space for McDs, which makes it even more inconsiderate to me.

I meant 100m, not feet. You're right, that's ridiculously short.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: kckgirl on June 15, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
I actually don't think your xh did anything wrong.

Quote
Around the corner, not far away at all but far enough that you wouldn't want to walk it with two hands' full of Maccy D's and a drinks tray, was a street with completely unlimited parking which was always empty.

Quote
I thought it was very inconsiderate to sit there taking up a space that someone else clearly needed, when we could have moved the car literally a couple of hundred feet around the corner before we started eating.

If it's literally a couple of hundred feet around the corner to plentiful parking, that's not far at all. People who want to go into the McDonalds don't need to park directly in front of it to do so, and parking around the corner isn't a big deal, so using a spot on the same street is perfectly fine, and I wouldn't even call it inconsiderate.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:36:39 AM
I actually don't think your xh did anything wrong.

Quote
Around the corner, not far away at all but far enough that you wouldn't want to walk it with two hands' full of Maccy D's and a drinks tray, was a street with completely unlimited parking which was always empty.

Quote
I thought it was very inconsiderate to sit there taking up a space that someone else clearly needed, when we could have moved the car literally a couple of hundred feet around the corner before we started eating.

If it's literally a couple of hundred feet around the corner to plentiful parking, that's not far at all. People who want to go into the McDonalds don't need to park directly in front of it to do so, and parking around the corner isn't a big deal, so using a spot on the same street is perfectly fine, and I wouldn't even call it inconsiderate.

I corrected that above, our posts crossed.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: kckgirl on June 15, 2014, 11:38:38 AM
100 feet or 100 meters...my answer is the same. Not inconsiderate. Not rude.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 11:43:00 AM
100 feet or 100 meters...my answer is the same. Not inconsiderate. Not rude.

How strange.

I consider sitting somewhere taking your own sweet time over something while other people are in need of the space you're occupying to be very rude, but perhaps it's our old friend cultural difference again. It's like people who deliberately dawdle across the road instead of crossing at a decent pace (when they're able to, of course; you know the kind I mean) just so they can make the traffic wait.

He was also really belligerent about it. He was doing it purely because he could, not because he necessarily wanted to be in that space for any reason, and made that very clear.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: kckgirl on June 15, 2014, 11:49:10 AM
The problem for me is that the other people don't "need" the space. There is plentiful parking just around the corner, as you said. Having a bag of food and a drink tray doesn't make it inconvenient to walk 100m. If those nearby spaces weren't there, my answer would be different.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: JenJay on June 15, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
Yeah, that makes total sense.

I'm really unsure about the petrol station example. It is a similar thing but something always stops me pulling away from the pump in case they think I'm trying to drive off without paying or something (here, you go into the shop to pay *after* you've pumped the petrol. There are some places that you pay by card at the pump but it's not usual). Plus I'm not sure if anyone else can start pumping until you've paid for it and it's 'cleared' anyway.

Here most places have you pay at the pump, but not all. I don't fault people for sticking around if they have to go inside and pay, I only meant for the pumps that let you swipe a card and pay immediately, so that when you put the gas nozzle back into the pump, you're done and free to leave. When I've been at the "pay inside" places there's always a line to pay anyway, so I don't see a problem with grabbing a snack or a drink before I get in line. It only makes a difference of about 30 seconds.

In my small hometown the rule is actually that you have to go in first and put money down, then go out and pump, then go back in to get your receipt and change (if you didn't need as much as you pre-paid for). You can't start the transaction until you're parked in front of a pump (because you have to tell them which pump you'll be on so they know which one to credit), and you can't pull away until you've paid because, as you said, the pump won't work for the next customer until you've paid anyway. It's a complete hassle and there's always a line of people waiting to pull up to the gas pump, but I fault the store 100% because the customers have no choice.

Sorry to derail a bit there  :P
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Luci on June 15, 2014, 12:46:36 PM
I did say 100 ft or three times that much, so you've still got a little over  l/3 of football field (US) there. No big thing by our standards unless you are injured or ill. If you were going to a car boot sale, you'll be walking a lot farther than that!

So, I'd still just walk it in reasonably nice weather with carryout. Or don't make a big deal out of doing what you want.

Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 15, 2014, 01:24:49 PM
I did say 100 ft or three times that much, so you've still got a little over  l/3 of football field (US) there. No big thing by our standards unless you are injured or ill. If you were going to a car boot sale, you'll be walking a lot farther than that!

So, I'd still just walk it in reasonably nice weather with carryout. Or don't make a big deal out of doing what you want.

I'm really not sure why you keep arguing about how far I (or he actually, since it was usually him who went in to get the food) wanted to walk, Luci45. That wasn't the question I asked and I'm really not prepared to justify that. The question I asked is 'is it inconsiderate to take up a parking space that other people need/want when you don't need to be there'.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 15, 2014, 01:30:02 PM
OK, my "Excuse Me For Living" warning light is blinking.

If you were parked in the lot,  you're entitled to eat in the restaurant and leave your car taking up a parking space.

You were parked on a  nearby street--but you're still entitled to use your parking space for the time that you spent wherever it was you were going.

In your case you didn't stay at your destination--but you are still entitled to that parking space. You do not have to drive around looking for -yet another- parking space to eat in while your food is getting cold, etc.
I'm with your dining companion--sitting in the car while you eat is totally your right. You could sit in that parking space for *any* reason.

And it might even be more efficient (in the way that doing all your bank transactions at once instead of standing in line multiple times is more efficient, in terms of total impact on -all- other people).

I think insisting that he move the car to another parking space was unreasonable. you should have stayed put, and driven off once.

I think he was belligerent because he knew you were wrong.

You seem very determined to insist that you were right and he was wrong.

Once you take a parking space, it's yours until you leave it. You don't owe it to other people to inconvenience yourself in order to make life easier for them.


The question I asked is 'is it inconsiderate to take up a parking space that other people need/want when you don't need to be there'.

No, it is not.

And you and your xdh (and you and I) are having a difference of meaning on the term "need."

I would say you still need that parking space--because you need to eat. And that other people don't need that parking space, because there is one farther away.



Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: jpcher on June 15, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
To Toots' last post . . . where is the "applause" emoticon? ;)
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Luci on June 15, 2014, 02:24:05 PM
I did say 100 ft or three times that much, so you've still got a little over  l/3 of football field (US) there. No big thing by our standards unless you are injured or ill. If you were going to a car boot sale, you'll be walking a lot farther than that!

So, I'd still just walk it in reasonably nice weather with carryout. Or don't make a big deal out of doing what you want.

I'm really not sure why you keep arguing about how far I (or he actually, since it was usually him who went in to get the food) wanted to walk, Luci45. That wasn't the question I asked and I'm really not prepared to justify that. The question I asked is 'is it inconsiderate to take up a parking space that other people need/want when you don't need to be there'.

Sorry. I was just saying that I my answer remains despite the change in parameters.

Your final line in the OP was "What would EHell do in this situation?", and mine was we would do the walking.

I also said that if given that you choose to wait for a parking space, you're there so it wouldn't matter what you did there, although it is not rude, it might be a bit more considerate to move. But don't worry about it.

So I answered the questions you posed.

Sorry if I offended. I certainly didn't mean to!
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Peregrine on June 15, 2014, 02:24:56 PM
If I waited for the space, I figure I'm entitled to use it for as long as I feel I need it.  I agree with your ex-partner on this one.  It is not anyone's particular right to get a parking space right in front of a business, and they could have parked around the corner if they want to stop and get an Egg Mcmuffin. 

Parking is always first come first served unless there is signage saying otherwise.   It is always frustrating for me to return to my car and have people idling impatiently and gesturing at me while I'm trying to strap in my child and get my purchases loaded up.  Never mind the person that got mad at me and laid on their horn while I retired to my car to breast feed my child when I was on a major shopping trip....He was trying to sneak into mall parking to get out of paying stadium parking fees (illegally).  I'm pretty sure he was the one that keyed my car when I explained I wasn't actually leaving my space at that time.  :-[

 
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: bonyk on June 15, 2014, 02:32:26 PM
I wouldn't move the car to eat.  I waited for the spot; it's mine until I'm done with it.  There's plenty of parking around the corner people can use if they don't want to wait.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Psychopoesie on June 15, 2014, 02:35:00 PM
Agree with Toots.

There's a similar parking arrangement at the nearby shops. If I'm picking up some burritos, I certainly *prefer* to get a spot right outside but there are other places to park. In the time I usually spend circling the block, I probably would already be eating my burrito if I'd parked further away.

Plus those spots here have a 1 hour limit. So people parked there are perfectly entitled to use that time. If I manage to snag a park there, I may go to the bank, grab a bottle of wine, grab some groceries, then get my fast food. I might just go, pick up my food and leave or eat it inside. Depends on how my day is going.

If I was planning to eat in my car, I might move to a spot with a nicer viewer but that's about it.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Amara on June 15, 2014, 03:28:12 PM
Off topic, but thank you, OP. I had never heard of car booting before. I learned something new today--and I like it.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 15, 2014, 04:07:28 PM
Exactly, plus actually I think that sums up why I didn't like it. We were no longer customers the second we left the premises with the food. If we were in there eating, that's different; we're still customers. But for a takeaway, you're only a customer for the time it takes you to get your food, not to eat it.


But then, you're now a citizen, with all the rights to park that anyone else has.

And moving so someone else can have your spot is *extra* nice--but it's no inconsiderate to -not- do so.

Also, the new space is literally a few seconds away? Ummm, the people who are looking for parking spaces can park there, and walk to McD's.

I can totally see why our XDH would fight with you about it. I would too! I'm not going to sacrifice my life so someone else can have it.

Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: sammycat on June 15, 2014, 07:25:09 PM
I probably would have parked the car in the other street to start off with, then eaten my food in the restaurant.

Me too.

But if I did have to eat in the car for some reason, I'd just stay in my original spot, whether that be outside the restaurant or parked around the corner.

And now I really want a McDonalds cheeseburger with BBQ sauce.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Jones on June 15, 2014, 09:04:11 PM
When I've been in similar situations I've parked farther away and eaten on a outdoor bench. Unless it was bad weather, then I always prefer to take food to go and eat at home watching a marathon on TV with the rain dripping in the background.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: katycoo on June 15, 2014, 09:12:22 PM
I probably would have parked the car in the other street to start off with, then eaten my food in the restaurant.

This.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 15, 2014, 11:09:58 PM
If not for the empty street nearby (and the fact it doesn't take that long to eat Maccas), I'd agree with you. But people circling the block had the option of parking in the empty street. So I don't think you and your ex were rude for staying in that spot to eat.

Although like everyone else, I am also wondering why you didn't just eat in the restaurant.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Lynnv on June 15, 2014, 11:15:44 PM
You were using the spot for the purpose for which it was intended-parking.  Whether you were parking to eat, check a map, comb your hair, call home to make sure the cats hadn't set the place on fire, or walk around the block really doesn't matter, IMO.

Sure-it is very nice of you to move from a popular spot to a less popular spot if it is an option.  But it isn't rude to use a parking spot to park in-even if you don't 'need' to be in that particular spot.  Truthfully, outside of handicapped spaces, noone needs to be in a particular space as a general rule (I am sure that there are exceptions and special cases that I am not thinking of). 

If I was in your shoes, and I often am as I travel and drive for work a lot, I would have stayed in the spot I found until I was done eating unless there was a nearby spot that I preferred because it was shady/had a nicer view/was quieter/etc.   I eat a lot of fast food in my car when I am doing field work, and I park where it is legal/convenient/free without a single worry about whether someone else would like to park where I am.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: sammycat on June 15, 2014, 11:46:46 PM
But people circling the block had the option of parking in the empty street. So I don't think you and your ex were rude for staying in that spot to eat.

Good point. It's not as if there weren't any other options at all for the people who came later.

Although like everyone else, I am also wondering why you didn't just eat in the restaurant.

Ditto. I hate eating in my car. It's too cramped. If I have the option of a (restaurant) table, I'll just about always use it.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 16, 2014, 02:48:33 AM
Exactly, plus actually I think that sums up why I didn't like it. We were no longer customers the second we left the premises with the food. If we were in there eating, that's different; we're still customers. But for a takeaway, you're only a customer for the time it takes you to get your food, not to eat it.


But then, you're now a citizen, with all the rights to park that anyone else has.

And moving so someone else can have your spot is *extra* nice--but it's no inconsiderate to -not- do so.

Also, the new space is literally a few seconds away? Ummm, the people who are looking for parking spaces can park there, and walk to McD's.

I can totally see why our XDH would fight with you about it. I would too! I'm not going to sacrifice my life so someone else can have it.

Well, like I say. I consider it extraordinarily rude to take your (you general) sweet time over things when other people are waiting for those things. Other people don't, that's fine. People who dawdle over transactions, dawdle crossing the road, have five minute chats with supermarket cashiers about the weather when there's a line, and dawdle in parking spaces when they don't need to be there drive me nuts; just move out of the way already so everyone can get their stuff done quicker.

It really also is *nobody's* business why we didn't eat in the restaurant. Perhaps we preferred to eat in the car? But for the record, this particular branch of McDonald's does not have any seating on the ground level** and one must go down lots of stairs to access the tables and chairs. It was an accessibility issue.

(** at least it didn't at the time we lived there, but this was over 10 years ago and it may have been done up by now)
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Margo on June 16, 2014, 04:13:46 AM
The problem for me is that the other people don't "need" the space. There is plentiful parking just around the corner, as you said. Having a bag of food and a drink tray doesn't make it inconvenient to walk 100m. If those nearby spaces weren't there, my answer would be different.

This is where I stand, too. Other people might *like* to have the space, but they don't need it (To my mind, the only person that might need it would be someone with a disability, and of course if they have a blue badge they would be able to park on the double yellows, if need be!)

I don't see that it is any different to parking there and eating in the resturant. Either way, you've parked for as long as it takes to eat your meal.

Of course, it would be very *nice* to move to give someone else a chance to use the space, but I don't think it would be inconsiderate or rude not to. (That said, I would prefer to eat somewhere quieter, so would probably move for that reason, and would probably park further away rather than bother circling around if I couldn't find a space on my first pass.)
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 16, 2014, 05:29:55 AM
You know, for some people a 100m walk is not easy. (There are also plenty of people for whom a 100m walk is not easy who don't have a blue badge. I didn't have one at the time because it was prior to my official diagnosis, and therefore I was not in receipt of DLA, which is what gives me my entitlement to a blue badge). Can we please be mindful of such blanket statements that anyone should be able to park 100m round the corner and walk around, because it's beginning to feel like chastisement for laziness and that doesn't really seem like a very etiquettely nice thing to do. Why we didn't park 100m away and walk round really is our own business ditto not eating in the restaurant. The question is simply "is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need to be using when someone else would like to/may need to use it?"

It's a bit like the table discussion, I guess: is it rude to sit at a table and read your book when people with food trays need somewhere to sit?  Or if you've just taken money out of a cashpoint and you're standing in front of it having a chat when there are clearly other people waiting to use it. Same principle, really.

Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: cross_patch on June 16, 2014, 05:43:57 AM
You know, for some people a 100m walk is not easy. (There are also plenty of people for whom a 100m walk is not easy who don't have a blue badge. I didn't have one at the time because it was prior to my official diagnosis, and therefore I was not in receipt of DLA, which is what gives me my entitlement to a blue badge). Can we please be mindful of such blanket statements that anyone should be able to park 100m round the corner and walk around, because it's beginning to feel like chastisement for laziness and that doesn't really seem like a very etiquettely nice thing to do. Why we didn't park 100m away and walk round really is our own business ditto not eating in the restaurant. The question is simply "is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need to be using when someone else would like to/may need to use it?"

It's a bit like the table discussion, I guess: is it rude to sit at a table and read your book when people with food trays need somewhere to sit?  Or if you've just taken money out of a cashpoint and you're standing in front of it having a chat when there are clearly other people waiting to use it. Same principle, really.

To be honest- I'm not sure what you're looking for. I know you posted for theoretical discussion, bit it feels like you are not interesting in hearing any dissenting opinions, so I guess I'm not sure how the thread is meant to proceed.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 16, 2014, 05:46:33 AM
I am - I just don't appreciate the insinuation of laziness or the relentless questioning as to why I just didn't eat in the restaurant.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: veryfluffy on June 16, 2014, 05:51:58 AM
I am - I just don't appreciate the insinuation of laziness or the relentless questioning as to why I just didn't eat in the restaurant.

But you asked what other people would do. Personally, I would hate to eat in my car. Maybe if I drove a Bentley and the seats were more comfortable that the McD stools, or wanted to listen to opera while I was eating, or I had a phobia of chewing in public -- but I don't.  I also don't have mobility issues, and I also hate circling to find a parking spot two minutes closer to where I am going and would rather walk a bit further.

All of these details would be germane to the decision-making process.

Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: perpetua on June 16, 2014, 06:01:14 AM
Yes, in the sense of whether they'd move or not, not in the sense of 'well you should have just walked around the block and why didn't you eat in the restaurant?' That is completely irrelevant to the question I asked, which it seems people don't grasp. It's a general question. Is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need just because you can?

Well yes - everyone hates circling to find a spot, so wouldn't it therefore be more polite to vacate one that you're occupying that you have no need of?

Eating in the car was just fine for this; it was a McDonald's breakfast muffin, not something you have to sit down to a table to eat with a knife and fork. Again though, wasn't part of the question I asked so I'm baffled as to why people are picking on my decision to do so.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: cross_patch on June 16, 2014, 06:15:32 AM
Yes, in the sense of whether they'd move or not, not in the sense of 'well you should have just walked around the block and why didn't you eat in the restaurant?' That is completely irrelevant to the question I asked, which it seems people don't grasp. It's a general question. Is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need just because you can?

Well yes - everyone hates circling to find a spot, so wouldn't it therefore be more polite to vacate one that you're occupying that you have no need of?

Eating in the car was just fine for this; it was a McDonald's breakfast muffin, not something you have to sit down to a table to eat with a knife and fork. Again though, wasn't part of the question I asked so I'm baffled as to why people are picking on my decision to do so.

But the distance is germane to the discussion - it's different if there's a load of other parks nearby as to whether it's more or less inconsiderate. I get that you have mobility issues, but if we are talking about a theoretical situation then that doesn't matter either. I really haven't seen anyone imply you are lazy, they are just saying what would go into their decision making process.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Margo on June 16, 2014, 06:31:25 AM
The question is simply "is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need to be using when someone else would like to/may need to use it?"

It's a bit like the table discussion, I guess: is it rude to sit at a table and read your book when people with food trays need somewhere to sit?  Or if you've just taken money out of a cashpoint and you're standing in front of it having a chat when there are clearly other people waiting to use it. Same principle, really.

It's interesting, as I would see both of those situations as significantly different.

In the food trays scenario, if you are *just* sitting and reading a book, you are not using the [cafe / food court] tables for their primary purpose. In the cashpoint example, you are obstructing people from using something despite not using it yourself, which is rude.

In the parking situation, you are not doing either of those things. You are using the parking space for the purpose it is designed for, which isn't rude.

Of course some people are more or less able to park further away, and I think a lot of us have thought about what we personally would do in the situation - I don't see any allegations of laziness, just difference in personal approach. 

It looks as if some of the disconnect is that you start from the premise that you don't need o be in the space once you have your food, and that others do need to be there. A lot of us are saying that while you don't need to be there, neither does anyone else - so it comes down to whether you want to inconvenience yourself (albeit only slightly) rather than to inconvenience someone else, for whom the inconvenience may be greater or lesser than it is for you.  After all, moving the car to a different street isn't difficult, but it means you have a delay before you can eat, a greater risk of spilling something in a  moving car, he small risk that the other street may not be as quiet as usual and the hassle of manoeuvering in and out of two spaces instead of one. None of those is a major inconvenience, but equally, having to wait for a space or to park further away are not major inconveniences, either

I don't think anyone is saying that it would be wrong to move, just that it is in no way rude not to.

I do think that if you (general you, not you personally)  were on the other side of the scenario and were wanting to get into the space, it would be very rude to expect / demand that someone sitting in their car and eating should move.

Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: menley on June 16, 2014, 07:41:42 AM
The question is simply "is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need to be using when someone else would like to/may need to use it?"

It's a bit like the table discussion, I guess: is it rude to sit at a table and read your book when people with food trays need somewhere to sit?  Or if you've just taken money out of a cashpoint and you're standing in front of it having a chat when there are clearly other people waiting to use it. Same principle, really.

It's interesting, as I would see both of those situations as significantly different.

In the food trays scenario, if you are *just* sitting and reading a book, you are not using the [cafe / food court] tables for their primary purpose. In the cashpoint example, you are obstructing people from using something despite not using it yourself, which is rude.

In the parking situation, you are not doing either of those things. You are using the parking space for the purpose it is designed for, which isn't rude.

Of course some people are more or less able to park further away, and I think a lot of us have thought about what we personally would do in the situation - I don't see any allegations of laziness, just difference in personal approach. 

It looks as if some of the disconnect is that you start from the premise that you don't need o be in the space once you have your food, and that others do need to be there. A lot of us are saying that while you don't need to be there, neither does anyone else - so it comes down to whether you want to inconvenience yourself (albeit only slightly) rather than to inconvenience someone else, for whom the inconvenience may be greater or lesser than it is for you.  After all, moving the car to a different street isn't difficult, but it means you have a delay before you can eat, a greater risk of spilling something in a  moving car, he small risk that the other street may not be as quiet as usual and the hassle of manoeuvering in and out of two spaces instead of one. None of those is a major inconvenience, but equally, having to wait for a space or to park further away are not major inconveniences, either

I don't think anyone is saying that it would be wrong to move, just that it is in no way rude not to.

I do think that if you (general you, not you personally)  were on the other side of the scenario and were wanting to get into the space, it would be very rude to expect / demand that someone sitting in their car and eating should move.

I agree completely with Margo.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Winterlight on June 16, 2014, 08:40:06 AM
I'd have probably parked in the other lot, eaten inside or taken my food home. However, I don't think that someone who eats while in their spot is wrong, though I would say that if it was a handicapped space it would be more courteous to avoid picnicking there.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: SingActDance on June 16, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Your examples of the table and cash machine are both false equivalences. They would make for a good analogy IF 1) there were other tables, just slightly further away or 2) the cash machine was being used, just for something that is not an immediate need (checking balance of several accounts, which could be done via mobile app or something). And in neither of those situations would I find the person rude. Slightly annoying, perhaps, but not rude.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: citadelle on June 16, 2014, 11:51:36 AM
Yes, in the sense of whether they'd move or not, not in the sense of 'well you should have just walked around the block and why didn't you eat in the restaurant?' That is completely irrelevant to the question I asked, which it seems people don't grasp. It's a general question. Is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need just because you can?

Well yes - everyone hates circling to find a spot, so wouldn't it therefore be more polite to vacate one that you're occupying that you have no need of?

Eating in the car was just fine for this; it was a McDonald's breakfast muffin, not something you have to sit down to a table to eat with a knife and fork. Again though, wasn't part of the question I asked so I'm baffled as to why people are picking on my decision to do so.

I disagree that your decision is being "picked on". It isn't that you *should have* eaten in the restaurant, it is that others *would have.* i don't see the personal slight in that.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: Dr. F. on June 16, 2014, 01:21:33 PM
Slightly off topic, but I'm curious.

I recall a thread a while ago (which I now cannot find) where the OP changed a diaper on a car seat in the pouring rain rather than pull out of a parking space immediately. She was firmly taken to task b/c changing a diaper was not using the parking space for it's intended purpose. Now I'm hearing that eating in the car in a parking space *is* using it for the intended purpose. Of course, I have no memory of who was posting in the other thread, so it could be that there are just differences in opinion, but I see the two scenarios as entirely equivalent. Personally, I think taking longer than absolutely necessary for a limited resource may not be rude, but may be inconsiderate.

So, are eating in the car and changing a diaper on the seat equivalent? Would that alteration change anyone's opinion?

P.S. Apologies if I'm misremembering something about the previous thread. I looked for it to refresh my memory, but couldn't find it. There may have been another factor that made the situations less equal.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: TootsNYC on June 16, 2014, 01:31:41 PM
Quote
Well, like I say. I consider it extraordinarily rude to take your (you general) sweet time over things when other people are waiting for those things. Other people don't, that's fine.

Then why did you ask us?

And I don't think "eating my lunch at a reasonable pace" to be "taking my sweet time over things." That's just living your life.

And other people aren't waiting for that one, exclusive thing. They want *a* parking space. There are other parking spaces, what, 15 seconds away? They can park there.

I'd have gotten belligerent with you about it too, if you kept arguing with me that you wanted me to drive just a few feet away before I started eating.



Quote
I recall a thread a while ago (which I now cannot find) where the OP changed a diaper on a car seat in the pouring rain rather than pull out of a parking space immediately. She was firmly taken to task b/c changing a diaper was not using the parking space for it's intended purpose.

I can't believe that was the 90% consensus of EtiquetteHell. Sure, some people may have thought that--but I know for a fact that I wouldn't have said that, and I know that other people here wouldn't have either.

There are entirely equivalent, and both people are entitled to use the parking space until they're done parking and are ready to drive away.


Yes, in the sense of whether they'd move or not, not in the sense of 'well you should have just walked around the block and why didn't you eat in the restaurant?' That is completely irrelevant to the question I asked, which it seems people don't grasp. It's a general question. Is it inconsiderate to take up something you don't need just because you can?

Well yes - everyone hates circling to find a spot, so wouldn't it therefore be more polite to vacate one that you're occupying that you have no need of?

Eating in the car was just fine for this; it was a McDonald's breakfast muffin, not something you have to sit down to a table to eat with a knife and fork. Again though, wasn't part of the question I asked so I'm baffled as to why people are picking on my decision to do so.

But the distance is germane to the discussion - it's different if there's a load of other parks nearby as to whether it's more or less inconsiderate. I get that you have mobility issues, but if we are talking about a theoretical situation then that doesn't matter either. I really haven't seen anyone imply you are lazy, they are just saying what would go into their decision making process.


I actually don't think the distance is germane to the discussion.

I think the OP's contention is wrong no matter how far away the other parking spaces are. A person is not required to vacate a parking space before they eat their take-away lunch, change a baby's diaper, balance their checkbook, finish their argument, make a phone call. Whatever.

And to do so simply because other people want a parking space is completely unnecessary. To maintain that -not- doing so is rude or inconsiderate is flat-out wrong, and (in my opinion) silly.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: shhh its me on June 16, 2014, 01:42:06 PM
Slightly off topic, but I'm curious.

I recall a thread a while ago (which I now cannot find) where the OP changed a diaper on a car seat in the pouring rain rather than pull out of a parking space immediately. She was firmly taken to task b/c changing a diaper was not using the parking space for it's intended purpose. Now I'm hearing that eating in the car in a parking space *is* using it for the intended purpose. Of course, I have no memory of who was posting in the other thread, so it could be that there are just differences in opinion, but I see the two scenarios as entirely equivalent. Personally, I think taking longer than absolutely necessary for a limited resource may not be rude, but may be inconsiderate.

So, are eating in the car and changing a diaper on the seat equivalent? Would that alteration change anyone's opinion?

P.S. Apologies if I'm misremembering something about the previous thread. I looked for it to refresh my memory, but couldn't find it. There may have been another factor that made the situations less equal.

The way I recalled the diaper thread. The car door was open and someone wanted to pull out/in the the next spot next to that op (and couldn't since the door was open) I think the consensus was that OP should have , hopped  in and closed the door to let the other person park/leave then continue changing the diaper.  It wasn't OP was changing a diaper but effectively taking 2 spots while someone else was trying to use the second spot.
Title: Re: Another parking question: What would Ehell do?
Post by: cass2591 on June 16, 2014, 02:58:30 PM
Perpetua, you brought a discussion here and you didn't get the answers that apparently you were looking for, complete agreement as opposed to what they really thought.

No reason to get testy because that didn't happen. Posting for validation rarely comes out the way the OP thought it would.

Locked because the thread has run its course.