Etiquette Hell

Forum Administration => Forum Announcements => Topic started by: Ehelldame on January 08, 2008, 12:41:45 AM

Title: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ehelldame on January 08, 2008, 12:41:45 AM
There has a marked increase in the number of posts that are not only contain the words "rant/ranty/vent/venty" in the thread title but also consist of nothing more than griping, venting and ranting about a specific situation without the benefit of seeking any application of etiquette. 

I realize that other similar forums are in decline and whose members are coming here but no one should be confused into thinking the Etiquette Hell forum is a substitute for gripefest forums or try to shift the focus of this forum from a productive discussion of etiquette to being a safe haven for venting and ranting.  There is a reason why gripefest forums eventually peter out....the constant dumping of negative ranting slowly brings the quality of the forum down.   

There will be increased moderation in this area because it has gotten too excessive lately. 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: CynthiaBelle on January 21, 2008, 10:21:43 PM
I rant\vent on here because I feel as if these people are completley removed from the situation and will give me some insight to the situation. Is that okay?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ticia on January 21, 2008, 10:35:38 PM
A vent or a rant usually comes (in forums) with the expectations that no advice or insight is needed. Hence why we don't want those kinds of threads here. Invariably, when someone posts a rant and then are given advice contrary to that which they are seeking (That is, they want to hear: "Go you!" "You're right!" "You're totally justified!") then they get upset and say that it was only a rant/vent and they don't want to hear dissenting opinions. Not necessarily on this forum, but it has happened in the past.

That is the scenario we wish to avoid. It fosters hostility and, frankly, is just plain rude. In my opinion, if anyone feels the need to vent, without wishing to hear about how wrong they are, they should get a blog.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on January 21, 2008, 10:53:08 PM
There is the "I Need a Hug" folder for when things aren't going well. I've used it quite a lot.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Wordgeek on January 21, 2008, 11:06:05 PM
Yes, that's the right place to ask for support.

The main part of the forum is for on-topic (=etiquette-related) discussions.  Everything else goes into the off-topic area.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Sefie on January 22, 2008, 02:49:51 AM
Quote from: Lil Bunny
Is there a way to make a "vent" board open to people over a certain number of posts?  That way you know they are vested in the board and the members but still have a place where they know they can get an honest opinion/support from other members?

I really like this idea - I've seen it work on another forum where members can only access the marketplace after making x amount of posts.  Could there also be a sticky in the I Need A Hug! sub-forum listing free blogs/journals that people can sign up for (eg: LiveJournal, Wordpress, etc).  EHellions can then post links to their individual journals, and people can choose to add or follow them as they like.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Brentwood on January 22, 2008, 02:03:38 PM


Is there a way to make a "vent" board open to people over a certain number of posts?  That way you know they are vested in the board and the members but still have a place where they know they can get an honest opinion/support from other members? 



I would be wary of automatically assuming that everyone over a certain number of posts is "vested" in the board. On one other forum in particular that I have posted on, I have seen trolls sign on, deliberately rack up a large number of posts and a reputation (one of them even going so far as to apply for - and get - a moderatorship), only to come out later as a troll. Attacking from the "inside", as it were.

Most people are not like that, of course. But as Ehelldame once wisely said - post number alone is not a good indicator of credibility.

I think a "vent" board or folder goes completely against the atmosphere TPTB try to foster here.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on January 22, 2008, 02:08:25 PM


Is there a way to make a "vent" board open to people over a certain number of posts?  That way you know they are vested in the board and the members but still have a place where they know they can get an honest opinion/support from other members? 



I would be wary of automatically assuming that everyone over a certain number of posts is "vested" in the board. On one other forum in particular that I have posted on, I have seen trolls sign on, deliberately rack up a large number of posts and a reputation (one of them even going so far as to apply for - and get - a moderatorship), only to come out later as a troll. Attacking from the "inside", as it were.

Most people are not like that, of course. But as Ehelldame once wisely said - post number alone is not a good indicator of credibility.

I think a "vent" board or folder goes completely against the atmosphere TPTB try to foster here.

I have to agree with CathyF on this one.  A venty forum really isn't what the place is about.  And, I think it would be detrimental to what we have here.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on January 22, 2008, 02:15:32 PM
Add me to that agreement. We all need to blow off steam once in a while, but I don't think a venting/ranting folder is a good idea.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on January 22, 2008, 02:17:43 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on January 22, 2008, 02:19:30 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)



I hear she lives on the West Side of Oz.  >:D
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on January 22, 2008, 02:21:12 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)



I hear she lives on the West Side of Oz.  >:D

Well, that DOES explain a lot! :D

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: lamorevincera on January 22, 2008, 02:27:00 PM
*deep breath*

I will completely abide by any decision that is handed down by the mods here. Them's the rules, and that's that.

However - and not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my opinion in - I can't completely agree with this decision.

Many (most?) of us come into contact with people who repeatedly run rampant over etiquette. And not the "the shrimp fork is the X one on the left" kind of etiquette, the "You're a fellow human being and I'm going to show respect for you" type. The normal human reaction to this kind of treatment is anger, shock, et cetera. And most people need a way to get that out.

The benefits of ranting about etiquette violations here is that it often opens up a discussion - how it could have been more politely handled, what the best way to defend yourself is, et cetera.

I agree that to be overwhelmed by nothing but rants would be bad for the board; but there's got to be a middle ground between letting the ranting overtake the board and putting an edict down that anyone who rants immediately gets a week-long gag.

Maybe modly PMs to individuals who are ranting too much and asking them to take it down a notch, and/or general "OK, guys, let's tone it down" notices to the board in general?

Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Brentwood on January 22, 2008, 02:29:51 PM
*deep breath*

I will completely abide by any decision that is handed down by the mods here. Them's the rules, and that's that.

However - and not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my opinion in - I can't completely agree with this decision.

Many (most?) of us come into contact with people who repeatedly run rampant over etiquette. And not the "the shrimp fork is the X one on the left" kind of etiquette, the "You're a fellow human being and I'm going to show respect for you" type. The normal human reaction to this kind of treatment is anger, shock, et cetera. And most people need a way to get that out.

The benefits of ranting about etiquette violations here is that it often opens up a discussion - how it could have been more politely handled, what the best way to defend yourself is, et cetera.

I agree that to be overwhelmed by nothing but rants would be bad for the board; but there's got to be a middle ground between letting the ranting overtake the board and putting an edict down that anyone who rants immediately gets a week-long gag.

Maybe modly PMs to individuals who are ranting too much and asking them to take it down a notch, and/or general "OK, guys, let's tone it down" notices to the board in general?

Just my two cents.

I think it's entirely possible to discuss etiquette violators and slights against ourselves without resorting to "ranting." Ranting by its very nature isn't about discussion, it's simply ranting.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on January 22, 2008, 02:34:00 PM
*deep breath*

I will completely abide by any decision that is handed down by the mods here. Them's the rules, and that's that.

However - and not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my opinion in - I can't completely agree with this decision.

Many (most?) of us come into contact with people who repeatedly run rampant over etiquette. And not the "the shrimp fork is the X one on the left" kind of etiquette, the "You're a fellow human being and I'm going to show respect for you" type. The normal human reaction to this kind of treatment is anger, shock, et cetera. And most people need a way to get that out.

The benefits of ranting about etiquette violations here is that it often opens up a discussion - how it could have been more politely handled, what the best way to defend yourself is, et cetera.

I agree that to be overwhelmed by nothing but rants would be bad for the board; but there's got to be a middle ground between letting the ranting overtake the board and putting an edict down that anyone who rants immediately gets a week-long gag.

Maybe modly PMs to individuals who are ranting too much and asking them to take it down a notch, and/or general "OK, guys, let's tone it down" notices to the board in general?

Just my two cents.

I think you're misunderstanding the rule that's being discussed.

There's, certainly, a time when we "rant" about an etiquette issue out there.  We have emotions, and those emotions are brought forth when we're wronged.

However, what the mods (correct me if I'm wrong) are trying to prevent is a situation where it's ONLY ranting and venting.  A thread where the person isn't rational and open to hearing how to actually address the issue.

There's a distinct different between "ranting because I'm upset about this issue and I'm open to hearing how to handle it better next time" and "I'm just venting, so no one cross me or contridict me, because I don't give a darn what you say - I am just here to yell and scream."

See the difference?  What you've described is valid.  What the mods are trying to prevent is detrimental to the site.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: milosparront on January 22, 2008, 02:35:30 PM
*deep breath*

I will completely abide by any decision that is handed down by the mods here. Them's the rules, and that's that.

However - and not that this matters, but I just wanted to put my opinion in - I can't completely agree with this decision.

Many (most?) of us come into contact with people who repeatedly run rampant over etiquette. And not the "the shrimp fork is the X one on the left" kind of etiquette, the "You're a fellow human being and I'm going to show respect for you" type. The normal human reaction to this kind of treatment is anger, shock, et cetera. And most people need a way to get that out.

The benefits of ranting about etiquette violations here is that it often opens up a discussion - how it could have been more politely handled, what the best way to defend yourself is, et cetera.

I agree that to be overwhelmed by nothing but rants would be bad for the board; but there's got to be a middle ground between letting the ranting overtake the board and putting an edict down that anyone who rants immediately gets a week-long gag.

Maybe modly PMs to individuals who are ranting too much and asking them to take it down a notch, and/or general "OK, guys, let's tone it down" notices to the board in general?

Just my two cents.

I think it's entirely possible to discuss etiquette violators and slights against ourselves without resorting to "ranting." Ranting by its very nature isn't about discussion, it's simply ranting.


CathF I couldn't agree with you more.  And I do believe there is a difference between a "rant" and a "vent".
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on January 22, 2008, 02:37:10 PM
CathF I couldn't agree with you more.  And I do believe there is a difference between a "rant" and a "vent".

True.  Maybe the misunderstanding is more of that of symantics.  I think we're really all on the same page with this rule.  We're just expressing it differently, so some people are getting confused.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: milosparront on January 22, 2008, 02:40:50 PM
CathF I couldn't agree with you more.  And I do believe there is a difference between a "rant" and a "vent".

True.  Maybe the misunderstanding is more of that of symantics.  I think we're really all on the same page with this rule.  We're just expressing it differently, so some people are getting confused.




Totally agreed Dotty!!!!  To me a rant is anger filled.  A vent is more of a complaint.  Different words same outcome!! ;D
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: lamorevincera on January 22, 2008, 02:51:29 PM
CathF I couldn't agree with you more.  And I do believe there is a difference between a "rant" and a "vent".

True.  Maybe the misunderstanding is more of that of symantics.  I think we're really all on the same page with this rule.  We're just expressing it differently, so some people are getting confused.



I think where I'm coming from is that sometimes, the only difference between a vent and an approved post is that the post has a question at the end. I don't yell and scream (too much... I think ;D) in a rant, so for me, it's not a matter of there being inappropriate language (...much... lol) or vitriol there.

Now, if what is to be banned is the vitriol-filled, screaming, cursing type, I can't disagree with that.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: jimithing on January 22, 2008, 02:57:48 PM
CathF I couldn't agree with you more.  And I do believe there is a difference between a "rant" and a "vent".

True.  Maybe the misunderstanding is more of that of symantics.  I think we're really all on the same page with this rule.  We're just expressing it differently, so some people are getting confused.



I think where I'm coming from is that sometimes, the only difference between a vent and an approved post is that the post has a question at the end. I don't yell and scream (too much... I think ;D) in a rant, so for me, it's not a matter of there being inappropriate language (...much... lol) or vitriol there.

Now, if what is to be banned is the vitriol-filled, screaming, cursing type, I can't disagree with that.

There's a thread that was stated today about someone commenting on a poster's hat, and it had "Vent" in the title.  I read it and thought that it was appropriate, as it was an etiquette question.  She wansn't just ranting, and threatening.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: VorFemme on January 22, 2008, 03:00:35 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)

Me, too, she's sucking up all the diet Coke - doesn't she realize that I need something to drink besides ice water, milk, and hot herbal teas?

And we won't go into how badly Snarky VorFemme wants to get into other people's yarn & fabric stashes to see if there's anything to be traded for...............make that bead, button, yarn, and fabric stashes - with a note that other types of creative supplies could be added later...........she found a website with colored elastic and stretch lace pictures and is setting up a list...........basically two yards of EVERYTHING and five yards of the stuff that might match HER stash.  And she hasn't gotten past the third page of seven...........

I don't know where she plans to put it all...........
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Mr. Fed on January 22, 2008, 03:05:17 PM
I apologize if my rant-about-comments-about-my-kids post was inappropriate or caused distress.  I will abide.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: CynthiaBelle on January 22, 2008, 04:05:36 PM
I think ''ranting'' as it is being called is an everyday completely normal thing.

I don't think that I shouldn't be able to come vent with people who are removed from the situation.

I don't just come to this board for etiquette questions, (as I think some others agree.), I come to this board to have ''fellowship'' (sorry for lack of better word) with people who are removed from the situation, who I can explain my feelings to, have shoulders to lean\cry\laugh on, and to let people do the same.

I think ''ranting'' and ''venting'' and expressing yourself can be done differently....Ranting to the point of not listening to anyone else's situations, then what's the point in it?? But ranting just to get it out, is very helpful, and should be embraced.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: allygmail on January 22, 2008, 04:21:03 PM
I like how CynthiaBelle described this board as a fellowship.  That's how I feel towards the people here.  I don't always post a lot, but I'm usually reading the site almost daily & I feel like this is such a wonderful group of people.  I enjoy reading everyone's posts & have learnt so much from this site it's amazing. 

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation in real life, my inner voice sounds like a montage of Ehellions, all trying to give me good advice.  Like, "No is a complete sentence" or "you can't change the situation, only how you react to it." 

I have grown as a person because of this site.  I have grown because of all of you taking the time to share your stories & all your advice.  I love it.



I understand not wanting this to become a vent site.  But I wouldn't want people to feel like they are missing out on all the other posters' insight either.  We have a caring, smart group of people here.  I think a lot of us have come to rely on that.  :)  I don't think that is a bad thing, as much a statement of how caring people are here.

Would there be any way to create an "Advice Requested" type folder?  It could be for posts that are not 100% about etiquette, but where we could state our problem & seek advice from each other?  Sometimes that advice might be to take a look at the problem from another angle or to step back from the situation for awhile.  Sometimes it may be specific advice based on what others here have gone through in their own life.  Would something like that work? 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on January 22, 2008, 04:23:22 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)

Me, too, she's sucking up all the diet Coke - doesn't she realize that I need something to drink besides ice water, milk, and hot herbal teas?

And we won't go into how badly Snarky VorFemme wants to get into other people's yarn & fabric stashes to see if there's anything to be traded for...............make that bead, button, yarn, and fabric stashes - with a note that other types of creative supplies could be added later...........she found a website with colored elastic and stretch lace pictures and is setting up a list...........basically two yards of EVERYTHING and five yards of the stuff that might match HER stash.  And she hasn't gotten past the third page of seven...........

I don't know where she plans to put it all...........

Hey, you can have the diet Coke. I drink regular decaf. Gotta have that sugar.

And someday let's trade stash pictures.  >:D
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: milosparront on January 22, 2008, 04:26:43 PM
I like how CynthiaBelle described this board as a fellowship.  That's how I feel towards the people here.  I don't always post a lot, but I'm usually reading the site almost daily & I feel like this is such a wonderful group of people.  I enjoy reading everyone's posts & have learnt so much from this site it's amazing.   
Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation in real life, my inner voice sounds like a montage of Ehellions, all trying to give me good advice.  Like, "No is a complete sentence" or "you can't change the situation, only how you react to it." 

I have grown as a person because of this site.  I have grown because of all of you taking the time to share your stories & all your advice.  I love it.



I understand not wanting this to become a vent site.  But I wouldn't want people to feel like they are missing out on all the other posters' insight either.  We have a caring, smart group of people here.  I think a lot of us have come to rely on that.  :)  I don't think that is a bad thing, as much a statement of how caring people are here.

Would there be any way to create an "Advice Requested" type folder?  It could be for posts that are not 100% about etiquette, but where we could state our problem & seek advice from each other?  Sometimes that advice might be to take a look at the problem from another angle or to step back from the situation for awhile.  Sometimes it may be specific advice based on what others here have gone through in their own life.  Would something like that work? 


I couldn't have said this any beter.  I don't post often either......  But you all feel like family and I for one appreciate you all more than you know.  I am honored !!
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: hobish on January 22, 2008, 04:43:53 PM

There was a rant/vent folder in one of the previous incarnations of eHell. It did not work out too well. You would think it wouldn't happen here; but there did end up being a lot of negativity and griping for the sake of griping, and a lot of it from what i can remember got a little too personal. I recall a thread in particular where someone was ranting about why they can't stand NJ and how much better NY is ... i really don't come to eHell to read about my entire state being maligned. I kind of doubt anyone else is looking for that sort of thing, either.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Issa on January 22, 2008, 04:49:09 PM
I don't like a lot of ranty posts. I can understand that some ranting can be cathartic, and even productive in that it opens up discussion - but a lot of ranty posts just create a negative space. To me, an etiquette board is a place where we learn about manners, learn how to deal with tough situations and how to handle rude people confidently - but also a space where we have compassion for other people, and learn to handle ourselves well. A lot of ranty posts turn the board into a place where it seems that all some people do are moan about how the whole world is terribly rude and "entitled". IMO, this isn't very productive, and in my experience - not true.

Don't get me wrong, I have ranty moods - and sometimes it is great to get all our feelings of anger out to an objective audience. However, posts that are JUST ranty and nothing else seem to change the character or the forum. This is a great board, I have learnt quite a few things and I enjoy posting on here. I think a lot of venty posts with no other purpose are not productive on a forum such as this, because these posts change the vibe from a place of learning to a place of anger and pessimism. JMO as usual :)
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: kareng57 on January 22, 2008, 07:17:59 PM
I like how CynthiaBelle described this board as a fellowship.  That's how I feel towards the people here.  I don't always post a lot, but I'm usually reading the site almost daily & I feel like this is such a wonderful group of people.  I enjoy reading everyone's posts & have learnt so much from this site it's amazing. 

Sometimes when I'm in a difficult situation in real life, my inner voice sounds like a montage of Ehellions, all trying to give me good advice.  Like, "No is a complete sentence" or "you can't change the situation, only how you react to it." 

I have grown as a person because of this site.  I have grown because of all of you taking the time to share your stories & all your advice.  I love it.



I understand not wanting this to become a vent site.  But I wouldn't want people to feel like they are missing out on all the other posters' insight either.  We have a caring, smart group of people here.  I think a lot of us have come to rely on that.  :)  I don't think that is a bad thing, as much a statement of how caring people are here.

Would there be any way to create an "Advice Requested" type folder?  It could be for posts that are not 100% about etiquette, but where we could state our problem & seek advice from each other?  Sometimes that advice might be to take a look at the problem from another angle or to step back from the situation for awhile.  Sometimes it may be specific advice based on what others here have gone through in their own life.  Would something like that work? 


I'm not sure about that.

To be honest (and not to criticize Ehell Dame Jeanne, it's her site after all) part of me thinks that there are already too many forums here.  There can be a lot of overlap - for example, do you put a question about handling your friend's kid in Family or Life?  Lots of wedding questions could be in either Planning or Etiquette.  And lots of Coffee Break posts could conceivably have been put in another folder too.  Often I'm interested in looking at additional posts in threads but have had an awful time trying to find them because I can't remember where they posted - and unfortunately the Search function doesn't always work too well.

I don't think we need to create a separate Vent or Want Advice forum - as PPs have said, venting/ranting is fine as long as it's clear that the poster still welcomes input.  It's the "if you don't want to tell me I'm right, then don't bother replying" posts that are the problem.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: CynthiaBelle on January 22, 2008, 10:11:16 PM
I feel as if we are labeling something that I do in everyday life as a negative thing. I think ranting about something just to get it ''off your chest'' and putting other people down or being 150% negative are tottally different.

I'm not suggesting a rant folder. But in the folders that people already put things in, and I have too ''ranted'', I think should just stay that way.

To say that we can only talk about etiquette on here, and nothing else, would highly change my views of this forum. I much enjoy it because everyone is so open, from so many different backgrounds, and we all have things in common. Wether we agree on everything or not, I look forward to taking a break from ''real life'', sitting down, and having my e-hell time. It's MY time to talk to people who are separated from what's going on in my life.

I would be highly disappointed if people stopped talking as open and freely as we do.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ticia on January 22, 2008, 10:34:55 PM
Quote
To say that we can only talk about etiquette on here, and nothing else, would highly change my views of this forum.
Cynthia, this is an etiquette forum. Of course it's not *all* we talk about, but it is the main thrust of the forum. There are off topic folders to talk about everything from tv/movies/books to telling us that you had a horrible day or just got a new job. (I need a Hug! and the Good News folders)

I don't think it's too much to ask that non-etiquette venty/ranty posts be kept off the main forum. I don't think it's really even all that much to ask that you keep it out of off topic unless you put it in the I Need a Hug folder.

Quote
I would be highly disappointed if people stopped talking as open and freely as we do.

Again, we're not talking about stopping "talking openly and freely." We're talking about posts like Momof2boy's post. She declared that nothing we said was going to change her mind, and then proceeded to fill her post with vitriol and bitterness. And then when she didn't get the response she desired, she came back with more of the same. *Those* are the kind of posts we're talking about.

If you feel the need to blow off steam because you've been having a rotten day, the "I need a hug" folder is there for exactly that. It's there for support. Of course, if you rant there about how you didn't get what you wanted (general you) at your wedding shower so that you could return the gifts for cash, expect to be called on it. Expect to be called on it in any thread, in any folder when you (Again, general you) cross the line, etiquettely speaking.

So, in summary. Don't vent unless you're prepared to listen to the advice you receive. Don't vent or rant in the On Topic folders about things that don't remotely relate to etiquette. Don't fill your posts with swearwords/threats/all caps, etc. and expect to be a part of this forum. That's what we're talking about here.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ehelldame on January 22, 2008, 11:58:17 PM

Would there be any way to create an "Advice Requested" type folder?  It could be for posts that are not 100% about etiquette, but where we could state our problem & seek advice from each other?  Sometimes that advice might be to take a look at the problem from another angle or to step back from the situation for awhile.  Sometimes it may be specific advice based on what others here have gone through in their own life.  Would something like that work? 

Every folder in the main section is an advice requested folder.  Everyone should be posting with the intent to gain advice on how to deal with the etiquette faux pas of not just others but themselves. 

I think people need to understand that Etiquette Hell forum is about etiquette and manners and civility.  It is not a therapy or counseling session and it would be arrogant of us to assume any of us has the education, credentials and knowledge to address these kinds of non-etiquette problems.  We cannot be all things to all people. 

In addition, there has been an increase in "toxic family" type threads that actually use the phrase "toxic".  I realize the Toxic Family Forum has closed and while EHell and Toxic Family enjoyed a very cordial reciprocity with each forum referring members back and forth, Ehell cannot replace Toxic Families.   The issues associated with lifelong family problems are far more intense often requiring professional counseling and we are not equipted to provide any level of counseling.  Need to know how to behave civilly for a specific situation?  Yes, ask but long posts woefully describing a toxic family member are not germane to this forum's charter.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ehelldame on January 23, 2008, 12:09:03 AM

There was a rant/vent folder in one of the previous incarnations of eHell. It did not work out too well. You would think it wouldn't happen here; but there did end up being a lot of negativity and griping for the sake of griping, and a lot of it from what i can remember got a little too personal.


Yes, you are correct.  When the decision was made to close the vent/rant folder on an older version of the forum, the bad reaction by too many people convinced many of us that closing that folder had been a smart thing to do.  If that was the type of people a folder of that type attracted then we were better off without a rant folder and those people. 

To those people who want a rant folder, the bottom line is that there is no chance in Ehell there will ever be a rant folder here again and no amount of appeals will change that.   
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: lamorevincera on January 23, 2008, 07:25:39 AM
So, in summary. Don't vent unless you're prepared to listen to the advice you receive. Don't vent or rant in the On Topic folders about things that don't remotely relate to etiquette. Don't fill your posts with swearwords/threats/all caps, etc. and expect to be a part of this forum. That's what we're talking about here.

Just to make sure my understanding is correct:

Putting a mildly-worded, still polite post venting a little bit about something that happened to you that DOES have to do with etiquette, and welcoming advice/responses about it: OK.

Putting up a vitriol-filled rant where you only want people to agree with you: Not OK.

Am I getting that right?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ehelldame on January 23, 2008, 07:45:38 AM
So, in summary. Don't vent unless you're prepared to listen to the advice you receive. Don't vent or rant in the On Topic folders about things that don't remotely relate to etiquette. Don't fill your posts with swearwords/threats/all caps, etc. and expect to be a part of this forum. That's what we're talking about here.

Just to make sure my understanding is correct:

Putting a mildly-worded, still polite post venting a little bit about something that happened to you that DOES have to do with etiquette, and welcoming advice/responses about it: OK.

Putting up a vitriol-filled rant where you only want people to agree with you: Not OK.

Am I getting that right?

You are correct.  The forum rules state it thusly:

In other words, venting, when it does occur here, should be accompanied by a desire to apply the proper etiquette to the situation. 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: lamorevincera on January 23, 2008, 07:47:47 AM
So, in summary. Don't vent unless you're prepared to listen to the advice you receive. Don't vent or rant in the On Topic folders about things that don't remotely relate to etiquette. Don't fill your posts with swearwords/threats/all caps, etc. and expect to be a part of this forum. That's what we're talking about here.

Just to make sure my understanding is correct:

Putting a mildly-worded, still polite post venting a little bit about something that happened to you that DOES have to do with etiquette, and welcoming advice/responses about it: OK.

Putting up a vitriol-filled rant where you only want people to agree with you: Not OK.

Am I getting that right?

You are correct.  The forum rules state it thusly:

In other words, venting, when it does occur here, should be accompanied by a desire to apply the proper etiquette to the situation. 


Thank you very much, Miss Jeanne. I completely understand that policy now.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: RoseRose on January 28, 2008, 12:11:41 AM
I just read this discussion, and it was very helpful, because it helped me clarify the rant rule that I wasn't very clear about.

Thanks, everyone!
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: barbie on January 30, 2008, 02:59:52 PM
hi, i'm new & this is my first post after reading this first thread.  already i have hit a term i don't understand...can you guys tell me what you mean by a "troll"?  you don't have to word it in too negative a way, i can see it's not a GOOD thing, lol!
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: lamorevincera on January 30, 2008, 03:01:13 PM
hi, i'm new & this is my first post after reading this first thread.  already i have hit a term i don't understand...can you guys tell me what you mean by a "troll"?  you don't have to word it in too negative a way, i can see it's not a GOOD thing, lol!

A 'troll' is a person who comes onto a message board/website and puts up a message whose only purpose is to provoke emotional responses. Most of the time they're looking to make everyone angry.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: VorFemme on February 05, 2008, 07:44:46 AM
hi, i'm new & this is my first post after reading this first thread.  already i have hit a term i don't understand...can you guys tell me what you mean by a "troll"?  you don't have to word it in too negative a way, i can see it's not a GOOD thing, lol!

Think of it as someone throwing something (writing something, at least) into the middle of the group to see what happens, and they hope that it's a fight..........like tossing a cat into a pack of dogs.

Sometimes their post proves thought provoking instead of just provoking..........the troll drifts off to something else when there is no drama involved.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Nannerdoman on April 03, 2008, 04:13:14 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)



I hear she lives on the West Side of Oz.  >:D

With the Winkies!
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on April 03, 2008, 04:41:16 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)



I hear she lives on the West Side of Oz.  >:D

With the Winkies!

I've moved. I'm now on the Eastside. Houses be hanged!  >:D
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: VorFemme on April 03, 2008, 06:09:02 PM
Although, I would like to vent about that Scritzy person that's on here occasionally.  Can we all have a place to talk about her behind her back?  Because there's a lot I'd like to get off my chest about her.

;)



I hear she lives on the West Side of Oz.  >:D

With the Winkies!

I've moved. I'm now on the Eastside. Houses be hanged!  >:D

Can I borrow a couple of flying monkeys?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scritzy on April 03, 2008, 06:12:30 PM
They're on their way. Be sure to have flying bananas on hand. They get grumpy when their blood sugar drops.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: NsWife on April 03, 2008, 08:44:53 PM
didn't Toto make off with the red shoes?  Heard he hated Oz. ;D
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on April 03, 2008, 10:25:39 PM
I beg to differ. Toto is right here beside me taking a kitty nap!

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Keres on May 31, 2009, 08:11:24 PM
Regarding this, I think there was a misunderstanding.  I started a thread about how to stop people from venting at me, and I think it may have gotten locked due to the title making it mistaken for a venting thread.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: cass2591 on May 31, 2009, 08:59:23 PM
No misunderstanding because that's exactly why I locked it. Had you put a different title on it, I wouldn't have.

Feel free to start a new thread, but please, give it a more appropriate title.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Keres on June 02, 2009, 10:59:45 AM
A simple PM or notice to change the title would have been preferred and resulted in an immediate response from me.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: cass2591 on June 02, 2009, 12:26:28 PM
Please see my other post in this folder about your complaint.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: katarain on September 14, 2009, 12:29:39 PM
So, in summary. Don't vent unless you're prepared to listen to the advice you receive. Don't vent or rant in the On Topic folders about things that don't remotely relate to etiquette. Don't fill your posts with swearwords/threats/all caps, etc. and expect to be a part of this forum. That's what we're talking about here.

Just to make sure my understanding is correct:

Putting a mildly-worded, still polite post venting a little bit about something that happened to you that DOES have to do with etiquette, and welcoming advice/responses about it: OK.

Putting up a vitriol-filled rant where you only want people to agree with you: Not OK.

Am I getting that right?

You are correct.  The forum rules state it thusly:

In other words, venting, when it does occur here, should be accompanied by a desire to apply the proper etiquette to the situation. 


I'd love a bit of clarification... on the main part of the board, does there always need to be an etiquette question?  I always thought that while the forum served the purpose of helping people handle situations in an etiquette-approved way, it also was a place to share stories about people who belong in etiquette hell--much like the stories posted on the main site.  I often see people post asking Where's the etiquette question?" if a post doesn't have one--so, what's the final word on that?  Do we have to have an etiquette question to post in the main area of the forum or not?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: twinkletoes on September 14, 2009, 02:27:55 PM
I can see where just posting about "this guy on the bus was soooo ruuuude!" could turn into a venty thread.  Instead of just posting the story, why not ask "what can I do differently?" or "was there anything I could have done?"
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: kingsrings on September 15, 2009, 11:28:03 AM
I also fail to see that happening with some of the threads on this forum. For instance, the repeat ones of a certain person who always acts wrong. The threads don't seem to be started for any other reason than to vent about the latest indiscretion the person committed, and no etiquette question is asked.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Aeris on September 15, 2009, 11:35:57 AM
I thought we had established before that there does not always need to be an etiquette *question* per se - that you can post a story about someone's rudeness, even if you know they were rude and you have no question about the situation, as long as it doesn't turn into a, as lamorevincera put it, vitrol-filled rant where you only want people to agree with you.

Surely it's okay to post something like "A man on the bus today demanded I get up and give him my seat. <description of event>. I simply told him that would not be possible, and went back to reading my book. Thank heaven for Ehell!"

Isn't it?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: penelope2017 on September 15, 2009, 11:36:28 AM
I also fail to see that happening with some of the threads on this forum. For instance, the repeat ones of a certain person who always acts wrong. The threads don't seem to be started for any other reason than to vent about the latest indiscretion the person committed, and no etiquette question is asked.

I think this is a good point.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: BettyDraper on September 15, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
I also fail to see that happening with some of the threads on this forum. For instance, the repeat ones of a certain person who always acts wrong. The threads don't seem to be started for any other reason than to vent about the latest indiscretion the person committed, and no etiquette question is asked.

I agree with Kingsrings.  Those ongoing sagas with no related etiquette question seem to be tacitly sanctioned -- yet other threads pointing out foibles and faux pas are summarily locked as rants or vents.  How is the distinction made?  Often it seems to depend on the popularity of the OP rather than the validity of the initial post.  

Not saying that I mind reading the sagas but perhaps the forum folders should be more finely distinguished between those seeking an actual etiquette discussion and those who simply desire relationship/marital/interpersonal advice or a place to blow off steam about personal woes.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Shores on September 15, 2009, 11:58:03 AM
Honestly, I really can't stand the sagas. Those seem MUCH more like rants to me than posting about a random encounter that made you angry. A random encounter could be excused with the heat of the moment or posting while upset, but these sagas show that the person is setting out to find instances where the person acted incorrectly so that they can gleefully go tattle about them on Ehell. Now, all sagas don't fall under this heading for me. The poster with the PM stories (I'm sorry, I'm blanking on which "Mom" it is Tongue) was facing a problem she was actually involved in and truly needed advice, even though it was a repeat character. However, some poster have weekly or biweekly stories that are simply "Person X did this!" or "The tale of Person X and the whatever". There's no question and there's no advice sought or needed. Sometimes, the poster isn't even INVOLVED in the story. They're simply tattling about someone else's behaviour for pure entertainment reasons and to laugh at someone's else antics. I find it often crosses the line into highschool-ism (to completely fabricate a word).
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: kingsrings on September 15, 2009, 12:23:29 PM
ITA w/Shores. It doesn't seem to fit the purpose of this forum, either.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Beyond The Veil on September 15, 2009, 12:37:29 PM
I think that EvilDuckie has a great example of a "saga." She posts about her BIL, his latest crazy antic, then posts how they graciously handled it. They are a nice paragon for the forum in my belief.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: O'Dell on September 15, 2009, 12:40:52 PM
I think that EvilDuckie has a great example of a "saga." She posts about her BIL, his latest crazy antic, then posts how they graciously handled it. They are a nice paragon for the forum in my belief.

I can see why the truly ranty vents don't belong...they don't add anything to the etiquette value of the message board. But as a newbie, I find some of the sagas and the play-by-play dissection of them instructive. They're a bit like case studies.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Scuba_Dog on September 15, 2009, 12:41:15 PM
Honestly, I really can't stand the sagas. Those seem MUCH more like rants to me than posting about a random encounter that made you angry. A random encounter could be excused with the heat of the moment or posting while upset, but these sagas show that the person is setting out to find instances where the person acted incorrectly so that they can gleefully go tattle about them on Ehell. Now, all sagas don't fall under this heading for me. The poster with the PM stories (I'm sorry, I'm blanking on which "Mom" it is Tongue) was facing a problem she was actually involved in and truly needed advice, even though it was a repeat character. However, some poster have weekly or biweekly stories that are simply "Person X did this!" or "The tale of Person X and the whatever". There's no question and there's no advice sought or needed. Sometimes, the poster isn't even INVOLVED in the story. They're simply tattling about someone else's behaviour for pure entertainment reasons and to laugh at someone's else antics. I find it often crosses the line into highschool-ism (to completely fabricate a word).

ITA, well said.  I feel the same way.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: cass2591 on September 15, 2009, 01:30:07 PM
I also fail to see that happening with some of the threads on this forum. For instance, the repeat ones of a certain person who always acts wrong. The threads don't seem to be started for any other reason than to vent about the latest indiscretion the person committed, and no etiquette question is asked.

I agree with Kingsrings.  Those ongoing sagas with no related etiquette question seem to be tacitly sanctioned -- yet other threads pointing out foibles and faux pas are summarily locked as rants or vents.  How is the distinction made?  Often it seems to depend on the popularity of the OP rather than the validity of the initial post.  

Not saying that I mind reading the sagas but perhaps the forum folders should be more finely distinguished between those seeking an actual etiquette discussion and those who simply desire rel@tionship/marital/interpersonal advice or a place to blow off steam about personal woes.




BD, your implication that there is favoritism on this board is extremely insulting. We will and have banned people regardless of their popularity.

I often wonder why you continue to post here since you seem to have so much antipathy toward the moderation.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Nannerdoman on September 15, 2009, 03:07:11 PM
Some of the "sagas" are continuing, such as Roe's situation with her husband's SIL.  The etiquette dilemmas change as the situation continues.

Besides, some posters get emotionally attached to the people caught in these situations and want to continue to offer advice and support.

And some posters with very long-running sagas--the one who was dealing with her mother's estate and her two sisters--get banned.  In that case, it was for an unrelated infraction of the E-Hell rules.  So I don't see that any favoritism is involved.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: kingsrings on September 15, 2009, 04:47:28 PM
I don’t think the mods are practicing any favoritism at all with certain posters. I think we are all moderated the same way and nobody has any pull over anyone else.

I just don’t see that some of these venty threads are about etiquette at all, they’re just: “Now look what ____ has done!!”, with no etiquette question or advice asked. And then they turn into a thread where everyone is just insulting and dumping on the subject of the thread. Yet these threads are allowed.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Marietta on September 15, 2009, 08:04:21 PM
I'm rather new here, so take my perspective with a large block of salt. ;)

The purpose of this forum can be a little confusingly torn between entertainment and education/self-improvement in that, as far as I can tell and most commentary I've seen around the Internet seems to interpret it, the main site is essentially about entertainment. One can certainly learn a lot and gain comfort in one's relative fortunes or etiquette skills, but a lot of it is simply a collection of humorous stories that people are getting off their chests in a way that might entertain or amuse others.

While I do find that essentially posting things for communal pointing and laughing tends to come off in a harsher manner in a forum than in a blog/webpage format, most people haven't initially come to Ehell for edification, and the forum certainly contains plenty of serious etiquette debate and commentary (and heaps of fabulous advice! Thanks, Ehell! :D), but it's a spinoff of a site with only a small explicit advice component and seems to have developed as a more in-depth adjunct to it rather than a strictly instructional source.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ehelldame on September 16, 2009, 10:07:05 AM

Those ongoing sagas with no related etiquette question seem to be tacitly sanctioned -- yet other threads pointing out foibles and faux pas are summarily locked as rants or vents.  How is the distinction made?  Often it seems to depend on the popularity of the OP rather than the validity of the initial post.  



With as many as 1700+ posts a day to this forum, the moderation is only as good as the reporting of potential problem threads and posts by concerned members.  If there is any favoritism, the culpability for it first lies directly with people who fail to bring these issues to moderator attention via the report link yet who publicly whine of the moderation being flawed in some way. 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Shores on September 16, 2009, 10:19:50 AM

Those ongoing sagas with no related etiquette question seem to be tacitly sanctioned -- yet other threads pointing out foibles and faux pas are summarily locked as rants or vents.  How is the distinction made?  Often it seems to depend on the popularity of the OP rather than the validity of the initial post.  



With as many as 1700+ posts a day to this forum, the moderation is only as good as the reporting of potential problem threads and posts by concerned members.  If there is any favoritism, the culpability for it first lies directly with people who fail to bring these issues to moderator attention via the report link yet who publicly whine of the moderation being flawed in some way. 
May I ask what the official ruling is on these types of sagas? Where there is clearly no question (or REAL question, I've seen some people throw a "so, what do I say next time?" or that "Was I really rude to say 'please don't eat my dog'???" type "questions" at the end) and the person is simply posting repeated stories to point out a certain person's issues?
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: GertrudeMcFuzz on September 17, 2009, 09:52:42 AM
I don’t think the mods are practicing any favoritism at all with certain posters. I think we are all moderated the same way and nobody has any pull over anyone else.
 

It is human nature to favor the known over the unknown, and believe it does occasionally happen on this board. A current example is a new-ish member who posted in the I Need a Hug folder and used the word "rant" in her title. It was locked after just one reply, but the post was no different than other posts in that folder with "So Angry!!" and similar titles from more established members.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: DottyG on September 17, 2009, 10:15:05 AM
Is that what happened?  I was wondering what the sticking point on that one was.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: The Opinionator on September 17, 2009, 11:04:04 AM
I don’t think the mods are practicing any favoritism at all with certain posters. I think we are all moderated the same way and nobody has any pull over anyone else.
 

It is human nature to favor the known over the unknown, and believe it does occasionally happen on this board. A current example is a new-ish member who posted in the I Need a Hug folder and used the word "rant" in her title. It was locked after just one reply, but the post was no different than other posts in that folder with "So Angry!!" and similar titles from more established members.

This has been discussed before and cass addressed it in this thread: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=58506.0 . I don't believe it was an example of the mods being unfair to a new poster, just of them trying to enforce a rule that has been up for a long time. 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Drunken Housewife on September 19, 2009, 06:34:07 AM
The sagas usually drive me crazy, because they do, to me, seem like gossip and not like etiquette issues.  (Of course, there are exceptions to that).

I personally am not a fan of them in general.  I find it especially irritating when people start them out saying something like, "Person X struck again!  I'm not going to bother telling you the backstory--- look it up."  We haven't all memorized all these characters, and some of them are not really all that compelling ("Dresser Queen" stuck out as a memorable character, and I did love those stories, but most of the others seem pretty unmemorable.  I have a vivid mental picture, complete with voice & accent, for Dresser Queen). 

I feel like a lot of people here want to have the success of having a character like Dresser Queen or the "racist bagels" HOA neighbor whose exploits of rudeness will be legendary and who will be asked after.  Sometimes though the person they are serially complaining about just isn't that interesting or spectacularly rude, and it just comes across as venting.

All this is just my personal opinion, of course.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: T'Mar of Vulcan on September 19, 2009, 09:53:49 AM
I personally am not a fan of them in general.  I find it especially irritating when people start them out saying something like, "Person X struck again!  I'm not going to bother telling you the backstory--- look it up."  We haven't all memorized all these characters, and some of them are not really all that compelling ...
I feel like a lot of people here want to have the success of having a character like Dresser Queen ... Sometimes though the person they are serially complaining about just isn't that interesting or spectacularly rude, and it just comes across as venting.
All this is just my personal opinion, of course.

I don't mind them if the person posts links to the other posts they've made. But when they start off like in your example without providing links or any background, then I think to myself, "Why should I go and try to find your old posts? If you want people to read your thread, you need to provide them with all the pertinent information." Then I don't read that thread again.

I sometimes wonder if the idea of the success of having a character like Dresser Queen won't compell some people to make up characters just so they can have people hanging on to their every word and posting one line messages ("Just posting for the updates! Me too!") that keep the thread going. I'm not saying anyone has done this - I'm saying it's not outside the realm of possibility that someone might do it. Actually, wasn't there a thread last year (?) in which someone posted about a co-worker switching her drink to try and kill her? I think that was found out to be false.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: wordgirl on September 19, 2009, 10:22:34 AM

I believe characters like StoneCold, K'nnihave, Daisy and DQ - to name a few obvious examples - are extremely rare in this world, and that is a very good thing. It's a special combination of rude plus self-deluded/downright crazy that makes these stories memorable and believable, and reading about them is both entertaining and IMO, germane to the purposes of this forum, because while most of us may not have people like these in our lives every day, it's good to see how they can be dealt with when we encounter them fleetingly.

In the context of an extremely stressful family situation, I met someone recently who - if I were in constant contact with her for the rest of my life - could very well be a recurring character here. She was that overwhelmingly clueless, overbearing and devoid of understanding of the basic rules of human interaction.  Knock wood, I will never see this person again - but I was better prepared to recognize her quickly for what she was and set firm boundaries because I read about people just like her.

I do think DrunkenHousewife has a very good point when she says that many posters here would like to have a "recurring character" to post about. What they aren't picking up on is the very real frustration, insult and pain these characters inflict, on an ongoing basis. I remember Balletmom posting about her daughter's former best friend and it was just so clear to me that this young woman was inflicting enormous pain on Balletmom's daughter and, of course, that hurt Balletmom as well. I hope posting about it helped Balletmom deal with that pain a little while helping us too ... but I don't want to have that kind of stress in my life, nor do I want to work for an insane person (Yarnspinner) have a clueless, vain MIL (Aeris) or an openly hostile neighbor (Marina).

And then I think, I could very easily turn one (or both) of my bosses into a recurring character on EHell by recording every foible and misdeed. But the overarching reality is they are both pretty loyal, fair and upstanding people ... who happen to have a few quirks. In other words, they're human beings. I think it is important to keep that in mind and not "sacrifice" someone who really doesn't deserve it for the sake of gaining followers on a message board ... and a few times, posts (not the ones I mentioned above)  have come across as so ranty that I wonder how they could possibly be fair.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Aeris on September 19, 2009, 12:07:32 PM
I'm very hesitant to speak up in this debate, for what may be obvious reasons... I'll say right out that if sagas are considered against the forum rules, then I'll stop posting about my MIL and SIL - I will certainly abide by whatever the rules of the forum are.

But I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem. If the point is that *some* saga posts can potentially fall afoul of the pre-existing rule against vents/rants, then I can understand that. But surely the saga posts are no more guilty of that than others? It doesnt seem to be that it being part of a recurrent character is what would make it problematic (any more than it being part of a recurrent character saves it from being problematic).

I will point out that, a few times, I have thought my bias on my own recurrents was getting the best of me, and tried to post anonymously and mask the relationships. I few times I got away with it, and got good discussion, and a few times I actually got called on the carpet by people, and pretty directly by at least one very senior/respected member of this board for being 'secretive' about who the post was really about. So then I worried that if the story did happen to be about Daisy, or Princess Sunshine, and I didn't say that at the beginning, I'd be doing something wrong.

I will admit though, that I do know that in the past there have been times when I've been in a hysterical mindframe regarding Princess Sunshine. People on this forum have been extremely helpful in helping me get my head straight when I feel like I'm really losing it about her, even telling me that I'm being way too involved, way to emotional, way too invested, and way too worried about her eventually happiness. I've been given numerous, EXTREMELY helpful, 'bobs on the nose', so to speak, that have really helped me realign my thought patterns to a high degree. It usually seems to follow a pattern of "Ack - SIL did amazing rude, hurtful thing and I'm LOSING MY MIND" "<BOP> Straighten up! Don't her have that power over you. Take the high road, be the adult here, and walk with your head held high." It *is* etiquette advice, because what I want to do is strangle her in front of 22 witness, but it's far more polite to smile faintly and bean dip.

I don't know... I would be very interested to see the mods and the Dame's take on this.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: wordgirl on September 19, 2009, 12:48:39 PM

I will admit though, that I do know that in the past there have been times when I've been in a hysterical mindframe regarding Princess Sunshine. People on this forum have been extremely helpful in helping me get my head straight when I feel like I'm really losing it about her, even telling me that I'm being way too involved, way to emotional, way too invested, and way too worried about her eventually happiness. I've been given numerous, EXTREMELY helpful, 'bobs on the nose', so to speak, that have really helped me realign my thought patterns to a high degree. It usually seems to follow a pattern of "Ack - SIL did amazing rude, hurtful thing and I'm LOSING MY MIND" "<BOP> Straighten up! Don't her have that power over you. Take the high road, be the adult here, and walk with your head held high." It *is* etiquette advice, because what I want to do is strangle her in front of 22 witness, but it's far more polite to smile faintly and bean dip.
Yep, this is exactly what I was trying to say from the other side. (I used Daisy 'cause I couldn't remember Princess Sunshine.)

Your posts were entertaining because you are a very good writer and you are able to keep a certain detachment even when you're being driven insane. At the same time, I never got the idea that you were "playing it" for entertainment value. You were genuinely frustrated, listened to the advice people had to offer and gave feedback on what you did and how it worked - which pushed your posts beyond entertaining into the realm of useful and informative.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Drunken Housewife on September 19, 2009, 02:41:17 PM
Aeris, I never got the impression from your posts that you were seeking attention instead of level-headed advice.  Some saga posters really milk the recurring person angle, with topic names like, 'YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT X DID NOW!  X STORY!!!"  and that seems gossipy, not advice-seeking. 

Sometimes the person in the recurring stories even seems tangential to the poster's life, like a friend-of-a-friend or a casual social acquaintance, which makes it all seem extra-gossipy that they are being built up into some big eHell character.  That is a big difference, IMHO,  from someone like Yarnspinner, who is stuck with the truly horrendous Stonecold in her daily life and needs advice and has continual, ongoing problems with that person. 

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Aeris on September 19, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
Ahhh, I think I see what both of you are saying now. Saga posts have *the potential* to be playing up situation for entertainment value and gossip, rather than genuine frustrating problems that need level advice. I can certainly understand that.

Even though you are both saying you don't think this is so much a fault of mine, I think it's a useful thing for me to remember too -- I think it perhaps IS easy for me to slip into a gossipy frame of mind sometimes with Sunshine in particular... and I should also remember that if a story is just a gossipy complainfest about her, and not a situation where my mother or I really *need* advice, then perhaps it is best not to post it...

Thanks, guys, this is a very useful conversation I think.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Drunken Housewife on September 19, 2009, 03:50:29 PM
This discussion has helped me clarify my own thinking (although since I'm not a mod, my thinking is not exactly authoritative or important  ;) ).  I think that sometimes there is someone who is in your daily life whom you can't escape, be it a tyrannical and capricious boss like Stonecold or a next door neighbor who always causes trouble for you, like Dresser Queen, and that person often creates new situations which you need help to navigate with good etiquette.  That leads to repeated posting about the person, which can be completely unobjectionable IMHO.

But sometimes the recurring character is tangential to the person's life, so it seems like reaching to keep writing about them (friend of a friend, social acquaintance, etc..).  Or it seems that the writing is exaggerated and it seems to be more about getting attention for the poster (especially if the topic headers are real attention-seeking, like "A NEW X STORY!!!").  For me the name given the recurring character is a clue about this:  some of the names seem really mean and gossipy, and that seems to go along with situations when the character is getting milked for eHell notoriety, IMHO. 

Bottom line:  There's a big difference between repeatedly having problems and needing level-headed advice about a difficult person in your life and gossiping cattily.  Is it advice or attention someone is looking for?  At least twice we discovered that the notorious serial character was fictional or grossly exaggerated (I can think of two posters who were banned; this does not refer to anyone still active here). 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Shores on September 19, 2009, 04:44:25 PM
It would be nice to have an official word on this, because the posters above me are much more lenient on the whole thing than I am. I think the vast majority of recurring characters are much more gossip than etiquette concerns. I believe that if the person posting is not A. a direct player in the story being related and B. looking for some advice or commiseration (in which case it would be in the "I need a hug" folder) then it's just fodder for the masses. A story about someone doing something rude in which the OP is not a player and/or there is no direct advice needed (and it is not in "I need a hug") feels like a rant/vent to me and much worth of being locked than someone actually asking a question or needing a hug who accidentally used the word "vent" in their title.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Hanna on September 19, 2009, 05:08:36 PM
Aeris I have always seen the etiquette question in your posts, and also believe that you and your mom often have taken advice from posters here at eHell, or at least gained some insight* that guided you when handling the situation.

I have seen other recurring characters, like Marina's DQ that simply give us good examples of how to handle a situation.  I think that is also worthwhile.  It helps others when they find themselves in a similar situation.

The other category seems to be just for entertainment purposes.  I suppose those could be moved to the Coffee Break folders.  Though I confess I don't really follow them, their presence here doesn't offend me in the least.

*Edited to correct funny typo.  Incite is definitely not what I meant!
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Bob Ducca on September 19, 2009, 05:22:47 PM
Regarding the "sagas":

There are some of them (Roe's sister-in-law is the one I'm thinking of here, though Aeris' apply as well, as does Lotus') that continue because it is a genuine challenge: how does one remain polite to someone who is consistently inconsiderate and rude?  How does one become more assertive without sinking into rudeness?  Many of us deal with people like this in our lives, but for one reason or another, we don't post.  Etiquette isn't the same for every situation, and what may work with a stranger on the street or the cashier at a grocery store won't work for your sister-in-law.

So, I see nothing wrong with:

1. Here's what Person did, what can I do?
2. Person did it again, it didn't work, what else?
3. Person stopped doing that, but has started doing something else, please help?

I see brides starting multiple threads about one wedding, because there are so many issues.  Why can't there be multiple threads about one person ?  I agree, if it has gone into the realm of "pure" entertainment (no etiquette question, or nothing the OP can do), then the Coffee Break folder may be a good spot for those, but several are very instructive and, IMO, belong on the board.  Should eHelldame or the mods disagree, I will respect that, but I think there's a purpose for them.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: cass2591 on September 19, 2009, 05:49:35 PM
Shores, since I don't own this forum I can't give the final word. However, until and unless an edict from Jeanne dictates one way or another, my advice is to just not read said posts/threads if they bother you that much.

Another alternative is that if you do read them and you feel it's basically a rant and nothing more, report it.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: jimithing on September 19, 2009, 07:22:45 PM
I'm very hesitant to speak up in this debate, for what may be obvious reasons... I'll say right out that if sagas are considered against the forum rules, then I'll stop posting about my MIL and SIL - I will certainly abide by whatever the rules of the forum are.

But I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem. If the point is that *some* saga posts can potentially fall afoul of the pre-existing rule against vents/rants, then I can understand that. But surely the saga posts are no more guilty of that than others? It doesnt seem to be that it being part of a recurrent character is what would make it problematic (any more than it being part of a recurrent character saves it from being problematic).

I will point out that, a few times, I have thought my bias on my own recurrents was getting the best of me, and tried to post anonymously and mask the rel@tionships. I few times I got away with it, and got good discussion, and a few times I actually got called on the carpet by people, and pretty directly by at least one very senior/respected member of this board for being 'secretive' about who the post was really about. So then I worried that if the story did happen to be about Daisy, or Princess Sunshine, and I didn't say that at the beginning, I'd be doing something wrong.

I will admit though, that I do know that in the past there have been times when I've been in a hysterical mindframe regarding Princess Sunshine. People on this forum have been extremely helpful in helping me get my head straight when I feel like I'm really losing it about her, even telling me that I'm being way too involved, way to emotional, way too invested, and way too worried about her eventually happiness. I've been given numerous, EXTREMELY helpful, 'bobs on the nose', so to speak, that have really helped me realign my thought patterns to a high degree. It usually seems to follow a pattern of "Ack - SIL did amazing rude, hurtful thing and I'm LOSING MY MIND" "<BOP> Straighten up! Don't her have that power over you. Take the high road, be the adult here, and walk with your head held high." It *is* etiquette advice, because what I want to do is strangle her in front of 22 witness, but it's far more polite to smile faintly and bean dip.

I don't know... I would be very interested to see the mods and the Dame's take on this.

Aeris, I didn't feel that you were being secretive. But I did wonder if perhaps you weren't mentioning who it was to make things more dramatic. In that particular thread, many posters were giving advice, and then adding "wink, wink", as in "we all know who this is about", and I just didn't understand why not come out and say who is involved, when apparently, most of the board knew who it was about. Like I said in that thread, it felt like a game. And in fact, another poster said that they liked it because it made the story more entertaining, when I think that the topic was innately entertaining in itself. And I was getting distracted by all the "guess who we're talking about" debate, and couldn't see the etiquette issue at hand.

I enjoy your threads, and as others have said, you usually ask a genuine etiquette question, which is why I was confused with that thread.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Aeris on September 20, 2009, 12:30:31 AM
I'm very hesitant to speak up in this debate, for what may be obvious reasons... I'll say right out that if sagas are considered against the forum rules, then I'll stop posting about my MIL and SIL - I will certainly abide by whatever the rules of the forum are.

But I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem. If the point is that *some* saga posts can potentially fall afoul of the pre-existing rule against vents/rants, then I can understand that. But surely the saga posts are no more guilty of that than others? It doesnt seem to be that it being part of a recurrent character is what would make it problematic (any more than it being part of a recurrent character saves it from being problematic).

I will point out that, a few times, I have thought my bias on my own recurrents was getting the best of me, and tried to post anonymously and mask the rel@tionships. I few times I got away with it, and got good discussion, and a few times I actually got called on the carpet by people, and pretty directly by at least one very senior/respected member of this board for being 'secretive' about who the post was really about. So then I worried that if the story did happen to be about Daisy, or Princess Sunshine, and I didn't say that at the beginning, I'd be doing something wrong.

I will admit though, that I do know that in the past there have been times when I've been in a hysterical mindframe regarding Princess Sunshine. People on this forum have been extremely helpful in helping me get my head straight when I feel like I'm really losing it about her, even telling me that I'm being way too involved, way to emotional, way too invested, and way too worried about her eventually happiness. I've been given numerous, EXTREMELY helpful, 'bobs on the nose', so to speak, that have really helped me realign my thought patterns to a high degree. It usually seems to follow a pattern of "Ack - SIL did amazing rude, hurtful thing and I'm LOSING MY MIND" "<BOP> Straighten up! Don't her have that power over you. Take the high road, be the adult here, and walk with your head held high." It *is* etiquette advice, because what I want to do is strangle her in front of 22 witness, but it's far more polite to smile faintly and bean dip.

I don't know... I would be very interested to see the mods and the Dame's take on this.

Aeris, I didn't feel that you were being secretive. But I did wonder if perhaps you weren't mentioning who it was to make things more dramatic. In that particular thread, many posters were giving advice, and then adding "wink, wink", as in "we all know who this is about", and I just didn't understand why not come out and say who is involved, when apparently, most of the board knew who it was about. Like I said in that thread, it felt like a game. And in fact, another poster said that they liked it because it made the story more entertaining, when I think that the topic was innately entertaining in itself. And I was getting distracted by all the "guess who we're talking about" debate, and couldn't see the etiquette issue at hand.

I enjoy your threads, and as others have said, you usually ask a genuine etiquette question, which is why I was confused with that thread.

Oh, I didn't take it maliciously Jimithing. In fact, it was probably my fault, because I didn't 'hide' it well enough, apparently, since a number of people did guess what was up. I have a number of threads about my SIL that don't name her, and the vast majority of those were never connected - I truly normally do it when I fear that my bias may affect my posting, and that the board bias too may trend the advice given. I just didn't do as good a job of it in that one as I have in others, apparently.

Sometimes I think it's valuable to do that, as there are occasions where the history may not helpfully inform the advice given - although the counter argument is that the most correct advice would be the most informed advice.... So I am a bit torn on what I should be doing....

Of course there are some situations that occur with her that just wouldn't make any sense without the backstory, so it would be pointless to try to hide the identity.

At any rate, I assure you that I didn't half-hide it just to increase the drama. It was just a failure on my part in that particular thread of attempting but not fully succeeding in shielding the identity of the characters.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Evil Duckie on September 20, 2009, 01:35:21 PM
.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: wordgirl on September 20, 2009, 02:15:46 PM
Evil Duckie, I do have to admit to getting a fair amount of entertainment from the BIL posts, but again, it is instructional. As is Felica's Princess Mom and many others. :D

But the best instruction also entertains! You can see a clear "arc" in your BIL posts that shows how someone progresses in dealing with a difficult person.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Hanna on September 21, 2009, 11:08:58 AM
If posting more about BIL becomes against the forum rules I will stop posting them.
I would be sad enough about this to create a special fan club site just for stories about him.
:)
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Flora Louise on October 08, 2009, 10:32:09 AM
Honestly, I really can't stand the sagas. . . .

I wouldn't go that far. But, they often do make me long to hear the designated "villain's" version of the story.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Prim_n_Proper on January 11, 2010, 12:16:02 PM
There is a fine line between opening a topic of someone else's questionable behavior - discussing proper etiquette surrounding the situation versus turning it into a rant/vent. 

Sometimes it can be quite a challenge to rephrase your post addressing the topic to not sound like a rant, since if it was positive/appropriate behavior that we were talking about, we wouldn't bring it up in the first place. 

Also, if it's a negative behavior that has caused enough grief for the person to bother posting about it on an internet forum, you can count on some emotions of frustration to be reflected in that post.  Many would call that in itself, a rant. 

It would be very difficult for someone who has reached this point to take a step backward, view the situation from an observer point-of-view and to frame it in the form of an inquisitive, emotionless query.

How do you determine whether someone is ranting or simply bringing up an example of poor etiquette that they wish others to comment on?   Of course the comments solicited would hopefully be those in the nature of "I think a more acceptable/appropriate way of handling this situation would have been to ....".  However, being human, not all of us have the skill and self-restraint to address these topics in an academic fashion. 

This post by the way, is not a rant, but rather my respectful attempt to seek more information about what is allowed and what is not allowed here.

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: gollymolly2 on January 11, 2010, 12:23:00 PM
I think the dividing line is one of intent. Are you posting because something frustrating happened and you want an idea of how to deal with it (Either that exact situation, or a similar situation if it occurs again)? Or are you posting because something frustrating happened and you want to vent to everyone else about it?

I think one of the easiest ways to identify a vent or a rant is a post that identifies itself as a vent or rant. So if you're right on the thin line between a question and a rant, the mods will probably let you go, but if you end your post with "I just had to vent!", you're probably not going to get any leeway.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ceallach on January 11, 2010, 03:58:48 PM
Also, if it's a negative behavior that has caused enough grief for the person to bother posting about it on an internet forum, you can count on some emotions of frustration to be reflected in that post.  Many would call that in itself, a rant. 

It would be very difficult for someone who has reached this point to take a step backward, view the situation from an observer point-of-view and to frame it in the form of an inquisitive, emotionless query.


Re this above section of your post, I think that's the key.  Of course, you can't switch emotions off, but from an etiquette standpoint it's how you express them. For example, in real life if somebody makes you angry, you shouldn't yell and swear at them, even if that's how you feel. But there are polite ways of conveying how angry you are about a situation.  Similarly, in posts we look for polite ways to communicate our feelings.

I find that shifting the focus to the etiquette issue helps me to deal with a situation in a polite way - because I look at it from other people's perspectives, not just the way I'm feeling.  The purpose of the forum, to my understanding, is to help all of us improve the way we behave and learn more about etiquette.  So it's worth considering whether a post will advance the dialogue or not.  If the sole purpose of your post is just to let off steam or complain, then it's probably just a rant.  But if you have an etiquette question or genuinely want to understand how to deal with a situation, then you should be fine.

I understand how you feel though, because I still struggle with how to word my posts properly to convey situations accurately and in a way that won't be misunderstood.  eHell has actually assisted my written communication skills because of that! 

Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on January 12, 2010, 01:14:26 AM
There is a fine line between opening a topic of someone else's questionable behavior - discussing proper etiquette surrounding the situation versus turning it into a rant/vent. 

Sometimes it can be quite a challenge to rephrase your post addressing the topic to not sound like a rant, since if it was positive/appropriate behavior that we were talking about, we wouldn't bring it up in the first place.   

Actually we do bring up good behaviour and the good things that happen to us <<gentle smiles>>
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on March 04, 2010, 12:02:11 PM
Also, for me, one of the signs of a real rant is when other people offer advice or dissent in some way, the OP completely rejects it.  This is someone who has bought their own world view, and is not looking for advice in any way.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Esther_bunny on January 08, 2015, 08:16:31 AM
There is the "I Need a Hug" folder for when things aren't going well. I've used it quite a lot.

I used the "hug" folder last night to ask about other's experiences they had with a medical procedure and it was locked this morning. I wasnt venting, just looking for advice or similar experiences to be related to me. No clue as to that wouls necessitate the thread getting locked.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: EllenS on January 08, 2015, 08:20:28 AM
There is the "I Need a Hug" folder for when things aren't going well. I've used it quite a lot.

I used the "hug" folder last night to ask about other's experiences they had with a medical procedure and it was locked this morning. I wasnt venting, just looking for advice or similar experiences to be related to me. No clue as to that wouls necessitate the thread getting locked.

Detailed medical issues or things that  may turn into medical advice are usually locked.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ceallach on January 08, 2015, 03:31:06 PM
There is the "I Need a Hug" folder for when things aren't going well. I've used it quite a lot.

I used the "hug" folder last night to ask about other's experiences they had with a medical procedure and it was locked this morning. I wasnt venting, just looking for advice or similar experiences to be related to me. No clue as to that wouls necessitate the thread getting locked.

That's a different rule - medical advice is not allowed on this forum, so those threads are always locked.  Same as threads asking for legal advice.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Esther_bunny on January 08, 2015, 07:50:30 PM
I guess I didn't make it clear that I wasnt asking for advice just what their experience was like. I was thinking more in terms of, "what was it like when you went to Italy?" Or, "what was it like when you did such and such?"
Thank you though for the clarification, I was stumped.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Ceallach on January 09, 2015, 03:55:17 AM
I guess I didn't make it clear that I wasnt asking for advice just what their experience was like. I was thinking more in terms of, "what was it like when you went to Italy?" Or, "what was it like when you did such and such?"
Thank you though for the clarification, I was stumped.

Yeah it's a very fine line sometimes - if people are sharing medical information even just from their own experience sometimes it can cross the line as others could base their decisions on that information even if it's not intended as advice. 
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Redneck Gravy on June 23, 2015, 01:07:39 PM
Also, for me, one of the signs of a real rant is when other people offer advice or dissent in some way, the OP completely rejects it.  This is someone who has bought their own world view, and is not looking for advice in any way.

Sometimes threads are shut down before the OP has a chance to comment on the posts, I don't think that's fair.  Sometimes I ask several questions because I am technology challenged and do not know how to fix something I dislike.  Sometimes I'm annoyed over something that I agree is my own issue but I get dogpiled on before I have chance to say, yes I agree that is my issue, that was not the question I asked about.

I have seen threads shut down and never know why, just this has been addressed, etc.  And yet I feel like there are more opinions that could have been shared but only a few were posted and the thread quickly shut down.

And I still struggle to see the difference between venty, ranty and background on some posts - does anyone else see this?     
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: pierrotlunaire0 on June 23, 2015, 01:34:39 PM
I have seen threads shut down and never know why, just this has been addressed, etc.  And yet I feel like there are more opinions that could have been shared but only a few were posted and the thread quickly shut down.

And I still struggle to see the difference between venty, ranty and background on some posts - does anyone else see this?     

I believe that sometimes, moderators who are probably very well acquainted with history on this board know that certain topics result in major blow outs for the oddest of reasons.  So a thread on tipping for example may be progressing politely, and then someone comments a little harshly.  Nothing rude, really, but a skilled moderator knows that this is the opening shot in what will quickly degenerate into all out war.  Tipping is just one of those hot button topics.

In terms of your last question, I have seen a few threads where the OP states their story, and people post: What is your question?  Are you asking for validation?  Do you wonder how else you could have handled it?  In those circumstances, it is probably a rant.

But in a thread where posters are saying, Why didn't you do X or Y or Z, and the OP says, I didn't mention it, but I not only tried X, Y, and Z, but also A.  I don't know what else to try is an example of supplying background info.

But ultimately, I think it tends to come down to tone.  I know that tone is hard to properly convey over the internet, but still some posts either seethe with anger, and that puts me off.
Title: Re: Venty, ranty, blow off the steam posts
Post by: Lynn2000 on June 23, 2015, 03:59:17 PM
I agree tone is important. And, that's something that can be hard for a person to judge of what they themselves have written, unfortunately. If something is gossipy, judgmental, opinionated, that usually feels more like a rant. Maybe imagine who you're "speaking" to--with your BFF you might try to be funny and colorful, to entertain her; but I think here, a person is taken more seriously if they adopt a tone of "just the facts," like they might say to the police or in court. If someone is struggling, perhaps they could let a friend read their first draft, or send it via PM to a friendly forum member, to get a second opinion?

Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes a person will go on at some length (a paragraph or two) about X, and then say, "I know X isn't rude, it just bugs me, my real question is about Y." Well, that's going to be noticed--inevitably at least one person will say, "X is not rude and talking about it like that makes you sound very judgmental." And you might say, yeah I know, I specifically said it isn't rude--but including the section about X colors the rest of the post for people, distracts them, and perhaps makes them distrust the OP's take on other things. So after writing out a post, especially a long one, the OP might go back over and edit it, considering whether each part really is necessary and gets to their point.

I do think it can be tough trying to decide what background is necessary. No opening post is going to be perfect! And not even the longest post is going to describe every nuance of a relationship. I usually write a lot, because writing it out can be therapeutic on its own, then go through and slash a lot of it (sometimes even deciding not to post at all).