Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette Hell Classics => Topic started by: pryncsskittyn on February 16, 2007, 09:07:44 AM

Title: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 16, 2007, 09:07:44 AM
This isn't a "classic" per-say, but more of something I wanted to bring up as a discussion.  Mods, if you feel it should be moved to a more appropriate category, please do so.  EHellDame's comment is in red.


I've been reading about wedding related fundraising attempts, and I have a little local custom to share. I live in the Province of Manitoba, and around here it is customary for engaged couples to have a “social” prior to their wedding. Essentially, you pay ten bucks to go to a big party in a rec hall on a Saturday night. It's not by invitation—the wedding party sells tickets. There is a bar, usually selling booze at a very small mark-up above cost (i.e. $2.25 for a drink that cost the couple $2.00 to purchase at cost). There is a silent auction (more of a draw really), the prizes for which the wedding party and possibly the couple’s family have canvassed from local merchants. There are dances between the couple and sometimes the wedding party, and usually a late lunch is served consisting of at least cold cuts, cheese, pickles, rye bread and butter—but these are the basics, I have been to showers for couples of different ethnic backgrounds that have had everything from perogies to spring rolls to dainties, etc.

This is a local custom and if a couple doesn’t have a social, it is considered a little odd. Furthermore, although socials are quite plainly fundraising efforts, I don’t think most couples make that much money off of them. Really they are big parties and in some smaller communities, a social might be THE event of the month. Everyone might go, grandmas (early in the evening the music is decidedly polkas-oriented), kids, middle agers, and the young drinking crowd (around 10:00 p.m. the newer dance-type music comes on)—you may not even know the couple who is getting married!

Now, this is all well and good, I don’t think we’re talking any major etiquette problems for the most part, because they are a part of the local etiquette; they are not exclusive parties to which you must come or be deemed a poor excuse for a friend, and; although they are billed as fundraisers, it’s really more of a community celebration. What does get to me is when a couple gets married and then has a social as a reception (and usually expects their friends, even those not invited to the actual wedding, to go)—it’s one of my pet peeves and drives me bonkers! If you expect me to pay and entrance fee for your reception, don’t bother inviting me!

Gimme1215-05

Aww, that's too bad that this has become a required social custom.   It seems the entire community has been invaded by bloodsucking aliens and are no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act.


My personal take on this one is it's more of a "Jack & Jill" party.  This is something  hadn't heard of until I met my now DF.  His sister had one for her wedding, and I've noticed a lot of their family friends have been having them too.  I do not agree that this should be something that is a community social event, or called a "fundraiser", I've noticed it is common practice (in this particular circle of people)that these events have a door charge, drinks, potluck style food and dancing.  Also there is a drawing of some sort.  You buy tickets for a dollar (you get 5 tickets for you cover charge, additional tickets are a dollar) then they auction off fun stuff that has been provided by family members.  There is no "canvasing the community" for items to auction.  In the particular case of his sisters wedding, it was only a year or two after the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" came out.  The auction items were jokes from the movie.  I don't remember all of them, but a bottle of Windex (the cure all), a Bunt pan, and the movie itself were all items that were auctioned off.  They're a Greek family who the parents of the Bride are first generation American immigrants, so it was truly a joke and great fun to see the auction items.

I thought at first when I heard about it "oh great, ANOTHER party for the BTB!" but I found the event very fun and a great way to meet family members and socialize as a group in a less formal setting than the wedding reception.  I do believe the money collected went towards the hall rental, and extra was cash raised for the couple to put towards their wedding or new house.  I didn't see the event as a money grab or anything like that (possibly at first), I didn't know the family well and most of the couples friends were in the same boat.  I got to learn a little bit of Greek dancing from the family (so did other friends) and it helped at the wedding so we didn't feel quite so lost when we were dragged to the dance floor to participate.  She had the music part right on in this story, the party started out with Polka's and Waltz' for the older family members, then later in the evening turned into music more of the younger crowd could get into.  It made me feel so much more comfortable at the wedding to at least have met most of the guests and had a chance before hand to get to know some people.  Since I was at the "significant others" table, I wouldn't have known anyone really unless I'd gone to that party and had a chance to at least learn their names!
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: snowball's chance on February 16, 2007, 09:21:10 AM
I have never heard of anything like this, or been invited to something like this, but an ex-BF told me he was once invited to a bachelor party like this, you paid to get in and there were drawings for prizes.  The groom-to-be was the friend of a friend of his.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: twinkletoes on February 16, 2007, 09:22:49 AM
If the purpose of the party is to really get people from both sides to know each other, why can't the b&g just rent out a hall and throw a party?  It sounds like they don't even make much money, anyway, so I'm not sure why money has to enter the equation at all.  I think that's why people think it's tacky.  
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 16, 2007, 09:36:44 AM
There was actually quite a bit of money made at the Jack & Jill I attended.  There were at least 150 people in attendance, all people who also attended the wedding (only the out of town guests, of which there were very few, were not there).  That's $1,500 bucks just in door charge!  Never mind what little the might have made off the bar (I don't think they made much as cans of soda were only $0.50 and I think a beer was $1.50), and the few extra tickets they sold (we bought a total of 10 extra, so we had 20 in all between the two of us). 

I know asking for money isn't appropriate.  But this was a PURELY optional party.  There were no formal invitations sent out, we got a call from my DF's mother about 2 weeks in advance and were told, "it's not a big deal if you can't come, it's just a way to get to know people".  We never felt pressured to go (that isn't his family's way anyhow) although my DF was in the bridal party.  We were well aware of the cover charge in advance also. 
AND kids were free, children weren't invited to the wedding or reception (there might be all of 10 kids in the entire family), so it was a way to include them as well.
I didn't feel this was intended to have the show of people that it did, so they money they made wasn't quite expected.  If I remember correcty (this was about 3 years ago), they did some kind of a 50/50 drawing too, so half of the money went to a guest.  Though I'm not sure how this worked, if it was just from the extra ticket money or if all the door money was included too (I don't remember the amount that was won). 
I did get the impression that the 50/50 hadn't been planned so it might have been thrown in there because they made more money than they had expected?  I know the family quite well now (as I'm marrying him now, I suppose I should) and I don't see them as a money grubbing kind of family in any way.  I also don't think she ever intended to make any faux pas, she is a very educated and sweet woman (the bride, but the mother as well), I can't picture her holding this a money making event.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: twinkletoes on February 16, 2007, 09:44:16 AM
"I also don't think she ever intended to make any faux pas, she is a very educated and sweet woman (the bride, but the mother as well), I can't picture her holding this a money making event."

And then they'd probably say "well, that's how it's always been done!" or "well, everyone I know does this party, and no one's complained!"

Honestly, I still think it's tacky, and I think one would have to be naive *not* to consider this as a money-making event.  I also think it's crass to have a fund-raiser for something like generating money for a wedding.  Of all the superfluous things one could raise money for, it really takes the cake to ask family and friends to help finance one's dream wedding.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Sterling on February 16, 2007, 10:40:42 AM
Here in the US this is considered tacky but I have heard about this tradition a lot from Canadians (and I could be wrong but I am pretty sure its Canadians) and it is considered traditional.

Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude.

There is also a tradition at some Asian weddings that the bride will not join the festivities until the guests have paid her enough money to come down.  In their culture this is not rude it is tradition.  Different cultures have different expectations. 

Edit because I really needed more coffee when I first posted this.  Grammer and spelling are not my friends today.

Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LissaR1 on February 16, 2007, 03:19:17 PM
Sterling, i was going to say the same thing about it being like any other party.  If it's a part of local tradition/etiquette, and no one is being pressured to go... there are far worse things.  It sounds like it's an event for the whole community, and that you might not even know the bride and groom (or not know them well). 

I can see where the idea of using the social as the reception is incredibly rude.  And I certainly wouldn't hold a social for my own purposes, because it's not the custom around here.  But I've certainly heard of far worse things.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Twik on February 17, 2007, 08:44:59 AM
While it's "far from the worst thing", there are a few things that would make me prefer to have my wisdom teeth removed (again) rather than be associated with this:

(1) People have said it's all right "if no one is pressured to go". How many stories have we read on this site about people who feel pressured to go to weddings, showers, parties, dinners, etc. that they really don't want to attend? I'm pretty sure than anyone claiming to be a friend or close relative of the happy couple will feel "pressured" to attend the social.

(2) We've also seen an alarming number of stories recently about people who believe it's perfectly acceptable to ask for entrance fees from their guests for parties, to defray the cost of food, drink and entertainment, and people have been wondering where they could have gotten the idea that this is acceptable. Probably from parties like this.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 17, 2007, 10:05:43 AM
Well, I've never been to a night club that didn't charge a cover price.  I've also attended a few frat parties in my day that there was always a cover charge for.  And I didn't pay these things to do a whole lot more than to have a good time with my friends... so maybe that's where I get the idea that it isn't as classless as others are thinking?  Maybe it's a generational thing?  I don't know, I think a lot of it is personal preferance and where you draw the line as far as class goes. 
I can totally understand why people find it tacky, and I see how doing it for a huge profit or feeling pressured to attend would be tacky too. 
At the same time though, is it tacky for my friends to call me up on a Saturday night and invite me out to a Night Club where the cover charge is $20 bucks?  I'd rather go to a Jack and Jill.  Drinks are cheaper and there's food, as well as not a lot of strangers like there would be in a Night Club, I'd feel more comfortable being able to be myself.  Just a different way to look at it... I'm not trying to insult anyone's thoughts on this.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LissaR1 on February 17, 2007, 10:39:34 AM
See, the thing is, it sounds like it's a party being specifically held- and advertised- as a fundraiser. 

If you want money for something, what's wrong with selling tickets for a party to raise money for it?  What IS the difference between a Girl Scout troop raising money for a camping trip by selling cookies or my youth group raising money for their activities (many of which aren't service activities) by throwing an all-church shindig and a couple throwing a party open to the public and using the funds on their wedding?  The girls don't need to go camping.  The kids don't need to get a new air hockey table or have a craft supply stash. 

I'm not saying it's a trend that I think should sweep the nation.  But if the intentions are clearly broadcast, and it's a common practice in that area, I'm not so willing to condemn the practitioners to a lifetime of flames.  I mean, the people paying are getting something out of it, and if it's genuinely as low-pressure as the poster makes it sound... if I lived in a small community, I'd actually probably enjoy something like this.  I mean, I enjoyed dances in high school, and I actually miss that sort of social interaction.  (A night club isn't even remotely like this.) 
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Twik on February 17, 2007, 11:50:02 AM
The difference are:

(1) We don't expect the nightclub to see us as anything more than business opportunities - we'd expect our friends to do so.

(2) If our friends ask us out to a nightclub, we all pay the cover charge, which goes to the house. However, in a paid social, the profit goes to the person issuing the invitation.

(3) If the more people, the more profit, it's unlikely that there won't be a subtle pressure on those who actually don't want/can't afford to go.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LissaR1 on February 17, 2007, 01:39:40 PM
Ah- but there's no invitations, from the sound of it.  It's an event- not a party.  If it was an invite, I'd agree with you.  But it sounds like the kind of thing you'd put fliers up for, not send out invitations.   
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 17, 2007, 02:03:11 PM
As an addition to my previous post.

If I'm going to spend money with my friends and family for a night out to enjoy one anothers compnay, I'd much rather be giving it to a close friend or family member towards their wedding than be giving it to an impartial night club.  We're only talking about 20 bucks here, not $100 wedding gift.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sparksals on February 18, 2007, 04:38:53 AM
These socials are not common across Canada.  They are limited to Manitoba, parts of Saskatchewan and Jack/Jills in Ontario.  I personally think they're tacky, but they are common and accepted in the above named provinces.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Twik on February 18, 2007, 08:44:59 AM
Ah- but there's no invitations, from the sound of it.  It's an event- not a party.  If it was an invite, I'd agree with you.  But it sounds like the kind of thing you'd put fliers up for, not send out invitations.   
You mean the hall/club would be full mostly of strangers? THis sounds like people finance their weddings by going temporarily into the entertainment business.

What would happen if not enough people showed up to break even?
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LissaR1 on February 18, 2007, 10:19:59 AM
That's what it sounded like to me.  And hey- as far as breaking even, it's a risk you take.

I don't know much about the provinces where this is an accepted social custom.  It sounds like, from the OP's description, that this is a standard form of entertainment because these are small towns.  If that's the case, I'm guessing that this is something that probably doesn't happen every Friday and Saturday night of the year.  I mean, tough to tell, but yeah.

But I think the analogy of a nice frat party fits perfectly, and is almost exactly what this sounds like.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sparksals on February 18, 2007, 10:23:41 AM
No, they don't put up fliers for it.  People are invited and it's not "strangers".
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: twinkletoes on February 18, 2007, 03:30:43 PM
The difference are:

(1) We don't expect the nightclub to see us as anything more than business opportunities - we'd expect our friends to do so.

(2) If our friends ask us out to a nightclub, we all pay the cover charge, which goes to the house. However, in a paid social, the profit goes to the person issuing the invitation.

(3) If the more people, the more profit, it's unlikely that there won't be a subtle pressure on those who actually don't want/can't afford to go.

Pod to your whole post, and I have nothing to add!
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: TZ on February 18, 2007, 03:49:35 PM
And POD to you, twinkletoes!  I'm 25, and believe me, this is not a generational thing.  The only way I would pay to go to a party is if the proceeds went to a legitimate charity.  Yes, even fraternities use parties as charitable fundraisers, which justifies charging for drinks and admission.  In my experience, frats only charge when they are raising money for charity.  Their other parties were always free.  Helping someone finance a wedding is not contributing to a charitable cause.

I also see this as being totally different from youth groups and Girl Scouts.  Girl Scouts selling cookies are  learning the value of hard work, and they actually earn their rewards.  Couples who throw such parties don't really do much to earn the money, unless taking advantage of one's friends and family counts as hard work.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: twinkletoes on February 18, 2007, 04:17:36 PM
This whole thread is making me wonder why so many couples need the fund-raising in the first place.  One can make a wedding as cheap or as expensive as one wants - so why is fund-raising even considered?  Shouldn't a bride and groom just think "ok, we can afford $30k, so that means we might not be able to invite every Tom, wingadingdingy, and Harry"?
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 18, 2007, 05:06:11 PM
Ah- but there's no invitations, from the sound of it.  It's an event- not a party.  If it was an invite, I'd agree with you.  But it sounds like the kind of thing you'd put fliers up for, not send out invitations.  
You mean the hall/club would be full mostly of strangers? THis sounds like people finance their weddings by going temporarily into the entertainment business.

What would happen if not enough people showed up to break even?

I'm confused.  Though I feel that a "community social" as the origonal story refered towould qualify for this, I don't feel that the Jack & Jill I attended was like that.  It was more like having a party with a bunch of friends and family. 

And funny, now that I've posted this, I was just asked by one of his family members when mine would be held.  I guess we're expected to have one from what my DF has said.   It's been the topic of discussion all weekend in my home.  I told him we could have one (though I'm not too thrilled about all these parties in our honor, it just seems like too much of the "me me me"), BUT I refuse to allow a cover charge and I don't think my friends and family should have to pay to join us.  I have buckled to his pressure of having an auction.  His Mother and my Mother want to donate things and make things for a drawing, they feel that we should do something to "give people an opportunity to help out financially" *major eye roll*.  They'll be items that mean something to us and pertain to our lifestyle.  For example, my Mom will be throwing in a reservations for a campsite at our favorite campground on the weekend we are there every year (most of our friends and some of our family already join us for this and I think the campgroud considers us such regulars they'll give a break on the cost as a presonal gift to us), and there will be tickets to a Demolition Derby event we attend every year.  It's going to be one of those drawings where there are cups for each item, so people will be able to choose what things they want to join in on, that way my Aunt won't end up with a camping trip she'd never be caught dead at.  We're renting a local hall (though haven't chosen our date yet) and everyone will be given 3 tickets, so everyone has a chance, without having to buy tickets.
My DF is excited about the party and really wants to do it, he could care less about how "tacky" or classless it seems... I can't change his mind, so whatever, I've given in.  None of his friends or family will find it a money grab, they're used to these events.  And since it will be held where we live, and not in my home state, not many of my friends and family outside of the bridal party will be able to make it anyhow.  I'll tough this one out... Ehell here we come.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: ginlyn32 on February 18, 2007, 06:02:11 PM
Here in the US this is considered tacky but I have heard about this tradition a lot from Canadians (and I could be wrong but I am pretty sure its Canadians) and it is considered traditional.

Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude.

There is also a tradition at some Asian weddings that the bride will not join the festivities until the guests have paid her enough money to come down.  In their culture this is not rude it is tradition.  Different cultures have different expectations. 

Edit because I really needed more coffee when I first posted this.  Grammer and spelling are not my friends today.



I think the reason most people would find it rude is if I was related to the bride or groom, I would be upset to be invited to a party where I had to pay to attend.

This is a wedding not a company picnic or company Christmas party where that is expected.

I know it was said they one is not expected to go, but could you imagine if Grandma didn't go? Someone also mentioned that the invites were very informal. Well, I dont think that even applies. I would be mad to even be asked to pay in order to get into a party that someone I knew was giving.

Ginger
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: twinkletoes on February 18, 2007, 07:25:30 PM
"
This is a wedding not a company picnic or company Christmas party where that is expected."

Actually, IME, it's considered pretty poor taste to even have the employees pay for that - a holiday party is seen as a way for a company to thank the workers for their service during the year.  (Unless, of course, the company is downsizing left and right and if the workers wanted a party, they'd have to pay for it themselves.)
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LissaR1 on February 18, 2007, 07:44:46 PM
Quote
No, they don't put up fliers for it.  People are invited and it's not "strangers".

Ah. See, from the way it was described in the original post, it almost sounded like that.  If people are specifically invited, that's a different story.   I was picturing something more where they put a notice in the paper and anyone could come.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sierra_07 on February 21, 2007, 12:08:29 PM
I'd like to get a few things straight about "socials":

1.  There are NO invitations.  Its mainly a word of mouth thing.

2.  There is NO advertising.  Its actually stated in our liquor laws that a social cannot be advertised.  The only thing you'll see is a sample ticket taped to the counter of the local gas bar (or grocery store, etc.)

3.  You do NOT have to go.  There is no pressure put on you to go... at all.  Usually, there's too many people there to notice who's there and who's not there.

4. You are welcome to go to ANYONE's social.  So there may be strangers at a social, but it's more than likely people who know the couple.

5.  It may seem like a cash grab to some people, but that is definitely NOT the intention.  It's seen here as a 'great time'.  You never hear 'how tacky', but instead "when is your social?". 

Socials have always been a great memory for me and my friends... whether we knew the couple or not.   You get cheap drinks, have the chance to win great prizes, there's food, great music, lotsa dancing, and at the end of the night, its good to know that you might have helped someone out (not just the local bar). 

Which etiquette rule does this break, exactly?
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sparksals on February 21, 2007, 01:05:03 PM
sierra - I think people think it's rude because of the selling tickets and the fund raising portion of it.  I'm from Alberta and they are not done there, but they are perfectly acceptable in Manitoba.  It's just like a money dance may be common in some regions whereas others think it's horribly tacky.  Socials are just one of those regional things that are acceptable in one place, but considered rude in another.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sierra_07 on February 21, 2007, 01:27:58 PM
People are getting a service/goods for their money.  It's not like they are just giving money to the couple.... they actually get something out of it.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Blurgle on February 21, 2007, 11:41:02 PM
This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: pryncsskittyn on February 22, 2007, 07:45:30 AM
This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

This is a very good point, and I'd been noticing that lately.  Not to offend anyone, IMO, ettiquette should be judged by what is socially acceptable in the culture. 
I would never, for example, enjoy having a Baptist wedding, but I know a lot of Baptists who feel that I should have one to accomodate *them*.  I'm having a Greek Orthodox wedding.  They are quite different ceremony's (and receptions, since certain Baptits don't believe in dancing, and my dear FIL Greek family couldn't live without it) and it's hard to have one accept the other.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: NewMrsF on February 22, 2007, 11:11:33 AM
I'm glad Sierra checked in to straighten out how socials are viewed. We don't do them in BC either but they are common elsewhere. I view it as similar to the 'Baseball Dance' I attended in a small town in Alberta. A friend was from a small community and the local team threw a fundraising dance. We paid a cover charge, paid for drinks (they were pretty cheap) and had a good time dancing. Seemd worth it to me and I didn't know a soul other than my friend. People of all ages were there and it was definitely a community event. Maybe more communities should do this (though it likely works better in a small town).
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: nliedel on February 22, 2007, 02:42:53 PM
In this case it is a local custom and very much a part of the local tradition. A friend of mine is a northern Canuk and assures me that these are the social events for the town. I'd be shocked, but to each community, their own. It's just a part and parcel of who they are. Which does not mean I want one in MI! LOL
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: LadyR on January 15, 2011, 12:42:15 AM
I'm from rural Ontario and Jack and Jills are super common, DH is from a major city and until we started dating, he'd never been to one.

How they work where I'm from:
* They are generally held a month or two before the wedding.
* Word of mouth (in a community of 500, not hard) also the community centre has a bulletin board that advertises upcoming events.
* Tickets are about $10 or $15 per couple this gains entrance to the event, some food (usually finger food & cake), soft drinks, and a dance. Alcohol is usually sold much cheaper than a bar, but high enough that the B&G still profit. There are also games (about $1 a play) and raffles.
* Anyone in the community is welcome. Generally people take these as a chance to have a night out, as well as wish the B&G well. From experience there's a pretty wide age group, pretty much 19 (drinking age) to about 60. I have been to many J&Js where I haven't been invited to the wedding, but just wanted a fun night out or to wish a couple I liked well.
* The event is organized by the bridal party, who generally contribute prizes and so on. The B&G receive the profits, after the costs have been covered. Where I'm from it's not normal to get donations from the community.

As I said, to me, their the norm, but DH had a hard idea with the concept and still finds it weird. My explanation is that it's not so much a cash grab, as a community thing. It's seen as a nice night out, but also a way to wish a couple well, even if you may  not be close enough to go the wedding (example, you went to school together or your friends with their parents). I'm not sure they would work outside the rural setting, without that sense of community (where I'm from, most people have been there for generations, your grandparents went to school together).
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Ms_Shell on January 15, 2011, 01:16:39 AM
This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." 
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Nurvingiel on January 15, 2011, 02:02:25 AM
This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." 
This. I'm from BC so I don't have any experience with socials, but they sound like fun.

IMO saying that they're "no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is a huge overreaction to a harmless local custom.

I was under the impression that this board was generally about American etiquette. Etiquette is formed by culture and very much a part of it. If one is not Canadian, one is not qualified to evaluate or judge Canadian etiquette.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Jan74 on January 15, 2011, 04:34:26 AM
"
This is a wedding not a company picnic or company Christmas party where that is expected."

Actually, IME, it's considered pretty poor taste to even have the employees pay for that - a holiday party is seen as a way for a company to thank the workers for their service during the year.  (Unless, of course, the company is downsizing left and right and if the workers wanted a party, they'd have to pay for it themselves.)

This year my husband's company charged a nominal fee ($3 per ticket) just as a forced RSVP deal. The years before, for every 100 that would RSVP, only about 40 would show up. They would order a catered dinner, as well as drinks, finger food, and rent a room big enough for them with enough waiters and bartenders, and even have a recreation area with a child monitor, all paid for, and then these people wouldn't show up.

This year, aside from all the things they already provide, they hired a live band to play with the proceeds from the nominal fee. I don't mind when it is like that, but yeah, if it were "Pay $40 cause that is how much we'll spend", I'd just decline.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: MadMadge43 on January 15, 2011, 06:27:55 AM
Quote
(2) We've also seen an alarming number of stories recently about people who believe it's perfectly acceptable to ask for entrance fees from their guests for parties, to defray the cost of food, drink and entertainment, and people have been wondering where they could have gotten the idea that this is acceptable. Probably from parties like this.
 

Well, I'm American and I can see places where this would be acceptable even in the States. Those are places where neighbors help each other out and don't expect people to go into debt to feed them. They understand that weddings cost and the whole community wants to help. I think it's kind of sweet. And also, in some of those small towns if anything is thrown people will come just for something to do. And to take that away from the community is considered rather rude.

Anyway on to the above quote. I think this is what the OP actually is complaining about. She said she's starting to see HC's treat their wedding in the same way. And I can't blame her, but I also can't blame the brides who are taught is acceptable in one form and not another. I can see why it could get confusing. So maybe this is why people have such a strong reaction to it, it's a slippery slope.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Nurvingiel on January 15, 2011, 06:46:07 PM
Well, a social is completely acceptable and not at all rude in Manitoba. Having a social there would be completely normal and wouldn't cause offence.

The exact same party in BC could offend people because it's not part of our customs. People might see it as a grab for cash and not a fun event, since around here it's not customary to have this type of fun event. So if it isn't a fun event, what is this new thing? Hey, they're selling tickets, so it must be a cash-grab.

Customs like this evolve naturally. You can't force them on people. Attempting to introduce the social widely in BC probably wouldn't work any more than telling Roughriders fans to cheer for the Lions would be effective. (It wouldn't. Those melon heads are dedicated. ;D)

That doesn't mean that people are wrong or rude in Manitoba. They aren't.

They are no more rude than Canadians are for alllowing people to see the soles of their feet. In some Middle-eastern countries, this is a hugely offensive insult. Here, we just don't care. Does that mean we are rude? If there is a universal standard of etiquette, what is it? American? Middle-eastern? Canadian? We are only right in our respective countries. We can't apply our etiquette to another country and tell them they are wrong.

Such an attitude strikes me as colonial and a bit patronizing.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: baglady on January 16, 2011, 04:29:10 PM
I grew up in a U.S. city that had a lot of Canadian immigrants (mostly Quebecois). Lots of people had Jack & Jills. They were *not* fundraisers to pay for the wedding. The money raised was to help a couple get started in married life. Think coed shower where people give money instead of stuff.*

Also: Quebecois = traditionally Roman Catholic culture = large families. Once all the aunts, uncles and cousins were invited to the wedding, there wasn't room on the guest list for a lot of friends. The J&J was a way for friends not close enough for a wedding invite, and the community at large, to wish the couple well and help them start out. As far as paying for the privilege, people pay to party all the time (cover charges, buying drinks at bars). This was no different, except the money goes to the HC.

*Of course, I haven't lived in that town for 35 years, so for all I know the J&Js these days are being used to raise money for wedding expenses -- given the "it's my daaaay!" mentality we keep reading about here, it wouldn't surprise me. But it would make me sad.

Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: NotCinderell on January 27, 2011, 04:32:50 PM
Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: blahblahblah on January 27, 2011, 05:41:58 PM
This just seems like another "this isn't the way we do it in the United States, so it's wrong" things. It may not have been meant to sound that way, but why are all the non-American, non-Anglo traditions seen as always so very wrong? To me, etiquette means adapting to the culture you're in, not imposing American culture on the world.

POD.  "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."  
This. I'm from BC so I don't have any experience with socials, but they sound like fun.

IMO saying that they're "no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is a huge overreaction to a harmless local custom.

I was under the impression that this board was generally about American etiquette. Etiquette is formed by culture and very much a part of it. If one is not Canadian, one is not qualified to evaluate or judge Canadian etiquette.
I also agree, speaking as an American. I think that this board can get awfully Americentric on occasion - yes, this board might trend towards being about American customs and etiquette, since most of the members appear to be American, but I think it'd be a lot better if people weren't so quick to brush off or deride customs that they weren't personally familiar with. The world does not revolve around us. I mean, yes, I'm not familiar with this sort of party myself, so admittedly the concept does sound odd to me personally, but whatever. I certainly don't think that this is evidence that people in parts of Manitoba have forgotten how to act like 'decent human beings.'
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: DottyG on January 27, 2011, 06:44:28 PM
some smaller communities, a social might be THE event of the month

The above is a very important part of the story.

Small communities (even in the US) have a certain culture that big cities don't.  My parents grew up in a very small town.  So, I've heard about how "community-oriented" things were there.

After college, they did live in Houston and San Antonio for many years.  But, they now are back in another small community.  I'm often tickled by the things my parents go to now!  They go to parties put on by the local club - just because "everyone was going to be there, so we went to see everyone!"  It'll be something that has nothing to do with them or their interests.  But, "everyone was there, so we went!"  And, honestly, that's how things are there!  If there's a party, people go!  They get to mingle with each other.

Small towns are vastly different than what we in big cities know.  There's a sense of "family" that you don't get when you live in a place with many thousands or more people.  There's a sense of familiarity that's present.  You KNOW the principal's mother's nephew's son, because he lives on the next street!  You go to church with the local grocery store owner and his family.  You see the boss' sister's husband every week at the school board meetings.

And, I can see how an event like this would be the "event everyone's talking about going to all month."  I don't see this as a fundraiser but as just another party type thing that you do with your small town's "family".

In a big city, yes.  It comes across differently - and grabby.  But, not in a small place with fewer residents who are using it as a chance to all socialize together.

Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Surianne on January 28, 2011, 04:27:04 PM
Small town Ontarian here.  Yep, they're really normal in certain areas and it's about the community getting together. 

They're shockingly a lot of fun -- and I'm a person who doesn't much care for wedding receptions or showers.  They're very casual and I have never, ever felt pressure to attend.  It's really fun to meet everyone in a completely casual atmosphere without having to be dressed up or on your best wedding behaviour!  I've actually gone to Stag & Does (or Jack & Jills) single without knowing anyone except the couple, and I've been welcomed by random folks and made a lot of new friends. 

At the last one, I ate so much delicious cake I thought I was going to die.  Definitely worth my $10  ;D
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: A_Bartlett on February 09, 2011, 04:47:22 AM
Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.

But no one gets sent a personal invitation for these things, and no one is expected to RSVP.  Nobody is going to make them feel guilty for not going to a social.  If Grandma doesn't want to go to a social, no one is going to think she doesn't support the couple, it's not seen as a message.  

Many people who actually have experience with these parties have said that there's no pressure or obligation, and I'm confused as to why people who have no experience with them don't believe us.

It generally works out much cheaper for party goers than a night at a bar would.  And it's a lot of fun!  

It's no ruder than a bake-sale.  Or some sort of community dinner that earns a bit over the cost of food/hall rental.   Or a community theatre production.  It's less rude then pressuring people to buy over-priced cookies or wrapping paper from your kid.  It's as if girl guide cookies were actually cheaper than other store-bought cookies, and instead of someone coming to your door and putting you on the spot, there is just some word of mouth advertising that Susie down the street has some of these cookies, if you wanted to go over and get them.    Or, what it's not like, but actually is, is the choice on a Saturday night of going out to a bar, spending half as much to go to a hall for a social,  or spending half as much again to rent a movie and stay home... etc.

The one bit about it that I really don't get, is why the local merchants etc actually donate prizes for the raffles, because I agree that it's not a really "worthy" charity.  But I don't really "get" why people give expensive wedding gifts either, so I imagine it's a similar motivation.  
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Winter on February 09, 2011, 12:16:24 PM
Also how is this any different than any other pay party?  When I was in high school I hung out with a band that threw a party with a $10 cover.  It was all you can eat crawfish and beer.  All the profits went toward buying the band new amps.  No one was invited and we didn't even know hardly anyone who showed up.  I see these socials as a local custom that outsiders find rude..

I think the feeling of obligation makes it tacky.  The band's fans might want the band to have new amps, but if they don't, nobody is going to make them feel guilty if they didn't go to the "buy us new amps" party.

But no one gets sent a personal invitation for these things, and no one is expected to RSVP.  Nobody is going to make them feel guilty for not going to a social.  If Grandma doesn't want to go to a social, no one is going to think she doesn't support the couple, it's not seen as a message.  

Many people who actually have experience with these parties have said that there's no pressure or obligation, and I'm confused as to why people who have no experience with them don't believe us.


I'm from one of the socials-are-standard provinces, and I have to disagree with the there's-no-pressure statement. I'm at the age where heaps of friends are getting married. Many are having socials, and if I decline to go I definitely get leaned on - not necessarily by the couple themselves, but by their friends, family, and wedding party who are all selling tickets on their behalf and trying to make the most money for them. Even if you say you're busy that night, you're pressured to buy a ticket anyway just to support them with cash. Maybe it's more community-fun in rural area, but I'm in the largest city of one of those provinces, and to me they're cash grabs.

What hasn't been brought up yet is the pressure it puts on the wedding party too. As well as being pushed to sell tickets to everyone they know, I know someone in a wedding party who was informed that as a draw prize, he was to buy an XBox and donate it to them. He firmly declined.

That said, yes, they are very standard here and very socially acceptable by most people. When DF and I announced our engagement, one of the first questions we got was "When's your social?" and there was shock when we said there wasn't one. Anyone who pushed by saying "You'll make so much money!" was told that as we'd both worked for charities in the past with real needs, we didn't feel right holding a charity event for ourselves. We were quite comfortable paying for our own wedding. Hope it didn't sound short enough to cast us into Ehell...  :o

Edited because it's my first try quoting!
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: A_Bartlett on February 09, 2011, 01:47:23 PM
Even if you say you're busy that night, you're pressured to buy a ticket anyway just to support them with cash. Maybe it's more community-fun in rural area, but I'm in the largest city of one of those provinces, and to me they're cash grabs.

What hasn't been brought up yet is the pressure it puts on the wedding party too. As well as being pushed to sell tickets to everyone they know, I know someone in a wedding party who was informed that as a draw prize, he was to buy an XBox and donate it to them. He firmly declined.


Well, that is rude.

Wherever you are, they're doing it wrong. 

That's like a girl scout coming to your door, and if you say you don't want the cookies, hitting you up for the money anyway.  Plus an X-box. 

I think that you have an exceptionally rude group of "heaps of friends".
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Winter on February 09, 2011, 02:32:04 PM

That's like a girl scout coming to your door, and if you say you don't want the cookies, hitting you up for the money anyway.  Plus an X-box.  


HA!


I think that you have an exceptionally rude group of "heaps of friends".


I should clarify, so as not to cast Ehell shame on my close friends - none of them have ever done this, and many feel the same way I do about  socials. The people who have done this pressure technique tend be acquaintances - although not knowing them well may make this even more Ehell worthy! Thing is, most are lovely people 99.9% of the time, and would never dream of asking you to pick up the tab for their drink. But when it comes to picking up the tab for their wedding, calling it a "social" somehow it makes it ok. That's why I dislike this tradition so much - it makes it seem like these kinds of asks are not only socially acceptable, but being supportive of your friends, and can turn otherwise great people into boors.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Nurvingiel on February 09, 2011, 03:35:51 PM

That's like a girl scout coming to your door, and if you say you don't want the cookies, hitting you up for the money anyway.  Plus an X-box. 

HA!

I think that you have an exceptionally rude group of "heaps of friends".

I should clarify, so as not to cast Ehell shame on my close friends - none of them have ever done this, and many feel the same way I do about  socials. The people who have done this pressure technique tend be acquaintances - although not knowing them well may make this even more Ehell worthy! Thing is, most are lovely people 99.9% of the time, and would never dream of asking you to pick up the tab for their drink. But when it comes to picking up the tab for their wedding, calling it a "social" somehow it makes it ok. That's why I dislike this tradition so much - it makes it seem like these kinds of asks are not only socially acceptable, but being supportive of your friends, and can turn otherwise great people into boors.
Well, people who use the social to behave like boors are... behaving like boors.

It's not the social's fault! Sometimes people organizing showers behave rudely. This doesn't make showers rude (where they are a custom), it makes the behaviour rude. Just because you and some of your besties have experienced rudeness from social organizers doesn't make socials rude either. :)
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: TootsNYC on February 14, 2011, 10:01:40 PM
The difference are:

(1) We don't expect the nightclub to see us as anything more than business opportunities - we'd expect our friends to do so.

(2) If our friends ask us out to a nightclub, we all pay the cover charge, which goes to the house. However, in a paid social, the profit goes to the person issuing the invitation.

(3) If the more people, the more profit, it's unlikely that there won't be a subtle pressure on those who actually don't want/can't afford to go.

Ah, but it's really less that you *invite* your friends, and more that you notify them, just the way you notify the general public. It's clearly a business relationship with your friends--and people do that from time to time.

It's also sort of like a potluck. We give a pass to people who clearly, statedly "organize" a potluck. As long as they're contributing too. We don't land on them for not "hosting."

This "social" is also not a hosted, invitation event.

Of course it can be done quite rudely. But I grew up in a small town, and I can absolutely see the entire community liking the idea of the social. They pay a small sum to have somewhere to go and socialize, and they get the mildly warm feeling that they're helping people a little bit, and they get to socialize w/ the couple whose wedding they know they wouldn't actually be invited to.

I can even see a community sort of resenting the couple who didn't host one of these. Bcs now there isn't a Saturday-night dance this week!
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Ligeia on February 15, 2011, 12:30:14 PM
This. I'm from BC so I don't have any experience with socials, but they sound like fun.

IMO saying that they're "no longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is a huge overreaction to a harmless local custom.

I was under the impression that this board was generally about American etiquette. Etiquette is formed by culture and very much a part of it. If one is not Canadian, one is not qualified to evaluate or judge Canadian etiquette.

No kidding.  "No longer capable of discerning how decent humans act" is incredibly rude phrasing.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Giggity on February 15, 2011, 05:05:43 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: DottyG on February 15, 2011, 05:47:00 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

You also (if I'm remembering correctly) live in Houston.  As such, you're not in a small community where this is the social event of the community "family."

Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: DangerMouth on February 15, 2011, 05:52:52 PM
I think it sounds charming, and a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Giggity on February 15, 2011, 05:54:26 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

You also (if I'm remembering correctly) live in Houston.  As such, you're not in a small community where this is the social event of the community "family."

Has nothing to do with my current location. I have family in far smaller towns than this, and not a one of 'em asked anyone to fund their wedding.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: immadz on February 15, 2011, 08:21:19 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

That goes along with, " If you don't like it, don't attend." The event itself seems like a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: TootsNYC on February 15, 2011, 08:26:57 PM
You know what? Having a "social" isn't the same thing as asking other people to fund your wedding.

Have your family or friends asked people about babysitting opportunities in order to earn money? There's a certain amount of family pressure behind that. Or asking about whether they need odd jobs done, so that the couple can earn extra money?

if you have a "social," you are earning the money that you end up with. You arrange the band, you make the food, you set up and clean up the hall. Maybe your family and friends pitch in, but I'm betting that when THEY or their kids have a social, you're pitching in there as well.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: sparksals on February 15, 2011, 10:31:48 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

You also (if I'm remembering correctly) live in Houston.  As such, you're not in a small community where this is the social event of the community "family."

Has nothing to do with my current location. I have family in far smaller towns than this, and not a one of 'em asked anyone to fund their wedding.

And how many times has it been stated that this is regional to a small part of Canada?  I'm sure there are things in your area that some of us would gasp at, but would be excused by virtue of regionalism.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Jan74 on February 16, 2011, 06:22:18 AM
I'm ok with the idea of this, but not with the pressure that was stated by PPs, as in "Buy the ticket anyway, to support it" and "Buy an XBox".

Charming community tradition: they r doin it rong.  ;D

Same thing as school fundraisers, girl scout cookies, etc. I'm not opposed to the idea of it, but I'm opposed to people who pressure others into buying to meet a quota.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: DottyG on February 16, 2011, 10:26:01 AM
I'm ok with the idea of this, but not with the pressure that was stated by PPs, as in "Buy the ticket anyway, to support it" and "Buy an XBox".

Charming community tradition: they r doin it rong.  ;D

Same thing as school fundraisers, girl scout cookies, etc. I'm not opposed to the idea of it, but I'm opposed to people who pressure others into buying to meet a quota.

I agree with this.

Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: baglady on February 17, 2011, 07:54:46 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

But the social (stag & doe, Jack & Jill) is *not* a fundraiser for the wedding. It's for the *marriage.* The money raised is to help the HC get started in their life together. Traditionally (at least in my hometown), it was very young couples fresh out of school who had J&Js, and parents paid for the wedding. Using the J&J proceeds for wedding expenses wouldn't be an issue.

If that's changed with the times, that's unfortunate. It would be like returning all the bridal shower gifts for cash to pay wedding bills. Because that's what a social traditionally is -- a coed bridal shower where the gifts are money instead of stuff.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: DangerMouth on February 17, 2011, 08:02:57 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

But the social (stag & doe, Jack & Jill) is *not* a fundraiser for the wedding. It's for the *marriage.* The money raised is to help the HC get started in their life together. Traditionally (at least in my hometown), it was very young couples fresh out of school who had J&Js, and parents paid for the wedding. Using the J&J proceeds for wedding expenses wouldn't be an issue.

If that's changed with the times, that's unfortunate. It would be like returning all the bridal shower gifts for cash to pay wedding bills.

I'm not also understanding the issue. Wedding showers are specifically to get the things a bride needs for her new life, how is that not also a 'fundraiser'?
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: hobish on February 17, 2011, 08:20:06 PM
The difference are:

(1) We don't expect the nightclub to see us as anything more than business opportunities - we'd expect our friends to do so.

(2) If our friends ask us out to a nightclub, we all pay the cover charge, which goes to the house. However, in a paid social, the profit goes to the person issuing the invitation.

(3) If the more people, the more profit, it's unlikely that there won't be a subtle pressure on those who actually don't want/can't afford to go.

Ah, but it's really less that you *invite* your friends, and more that you notify them, just the way you notify the general public. It's clearly a business relationship with your friends--and people do that from time to time.

It's also sort of like a potluck. We give a pass to people who clearly, statedly "organize" a potluck. As long as they're contributing too. We don't land on them for not "hosting."

This "social" is also not a hosted, invitation event.

Of course it can be done quite rudely. But I grew up in a small town, and I can absolutely see the entire community liking the idea of the social. They pay a small sum to have somewhere to go and socialize, and they get the mildly warm feeling that they're helping people a little bit, and they get to socialize w/ the couple whose wedding they know they wouldn't actually be invited to.

I can even see a community sort of resenting the couple who didn't host one of these. Bcs now there isn't a Saturday-night dance this week!

I can see that. And done right, and from the descrription in the OP, it sounds like it could be a heck of a lot of fun.

I've seen beef and beers and the like done in my area for the fire hall or ambulance squad, and even sometimes churches have them as fundraisers. An acquaintance of mine has one every year to put toward a college fund for his orphaned nephew. In my home town (which was actually a small municipality) some people threw one for a family - not even a very well liked one, in fact - who incurred a lot of medical bills when their child was injured.

They aren't billed as a party, they're billed as a fundraiser and from what i can tell people usually walk away feeling like they got as good as they gave. That makes a lot of difference, i think. A lot of people, i'm sure would be more inclined to attend when it's a fundraiser for a public service or the like; but if the intention is laid out plainly and there is no social obligation to attend, and a good time is had by all as they say i don't see the harm or foul no matter the reason for the fundraiser.



Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: baglady on February 17, 2011, 09:15:23 PM
I find it odd, solely because I was raised to believe that if you cannot afford it, you don't buy it, and that includes weddings.

But the social (stag & doe, Jack & Jill) is *not* a fundraiser for the wedding. It's for the *marriage.* The money raised is to help the HC get started in their life together. Traditionally (at least in my hometown), it was very young couples fresh out of school who had J&Js, and parents paid for the wedding. Using the J&J proceeds for wedding expenses wouldn't be an issue.

If that's changed with the times, that's unfortunate. It would be like returning all the bridal shower gifts for cash to pay wedding bills.

I'm not also understanding the issue. Wedding showers are specifically to get the things a bride needs for her new life, how is that not also a 'fundraiser'?

That's my point. Socials and showers are both supposed to be about helping the couple get started in married life. I was addressing some posters' impression that socials are held to raise funds for the wedding itself, which has not been my experience.

I think we're pretty much in agreement on this board that it's tacky to put on a wedding you can't afford and expect other people to help pay for it. And I think that's what some posters who aren't familiar with the social think it's about. That's the impression I was trying to correct.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Jan74 on February 18, 2011, 05:50:41 AM
Now, do the people who have a social also have a shower (or multiple showers, like the kids are doing these days...)?

Cause if so, that is a lot of help getting started. Not to mention the registry.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Nurvingiel on February 18, 2011, 12:29:35 PM
Now, do the people who have a social also have a shower (or multiple showers, like the kids are doing these days...)?

Cause if so, that is a lot of help getting started. Not to mention the registry.
The social is something the happy couple does. Attentence is optional. A shower is somethign a friend or family member does. Its existance at all, and attendence, is optional. Buying a wedding gift, off the registry or no, is optional.

There are many options that a couple's friends and family might choose to do or participate in to help a couple get started.

Your post made it sound like the happy couple would be greedy if, after the social, someone threw them a shower. I hope I am mistaken. :)
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Jan74 on February 19, 2011, 06:17:30 AM
To quote Twik from another post, the one about the lady that wants the man to pay when she goes with him on vacation cause "that is what the man does", "you don't get to mix and match" traditions.

It has already been mentioned in this thread, but here it goes:

Column A: In older times, people would typically have a very inexpensive wedding in the backyard, have a social to help them get started in life, and that was it.

Column B: Nowadays, people have lavish weddings as a rule (as in, even if you are not rich, you still typically go into debt to throw the fanciest party you can possibly afford - that is what I mean by "lavish" here, not necessarily that everyone is having 8 ice sculptures or something like that). They also have registries with expensive items, bachelor and bachelorette parties paid for by their friends, and multiple showers.


It does seem to me that people that are having all of them are picking from both Columns, yes, and I would find them greedy.
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Nurvingiel on February 20, 2011, 01:25:19 AM
I think socials are more regional than generational. That's the impression I get. Otherwise why would they be commonplace in Manitoba and non-existant in British Columbia?
Title: Re: Pre-Wedding "social"
Post by: Jan74 on February 20, 2011, 11:10:08 AM
I think socials are more regional than generational. That's the impression I get. Otherwise why would they be commonplace in Manitoba and non-existant in British Columbia?

I got the idea they were regional but it was also mentioned in those places where they are common place, it is usually small towns where a lavish wedding with a registry at a fancy department store isn't the rule yet either, more like backyard wedding. So in the places where it seems to still be a thing, and therefore regional, weddings in general also seem more old school, according to the people in this thread.

And that brings us back to "mix and match", whether it is "old school vs. current wedding" or "small town vs. big city wedding", if people also have huge ceremonies with several attendants, tux rentals for guests, limos, registries, multiple showers, and bachelor/bachelorette parties. Of course, if it is the scenario presented by people in this thread where it is all "old school" or it is thought of as a "Jack and Jill shower" or coed shower, then I have zero problem with it. Take a gift, eat cake vs. buy a ticket, eat cake is the same thing exactly. The social is actually better cause you don't have to go to a specific store to get something off a shower registry.