Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette Hell Classics => Topic started by: the Wyffe on November 20, 2009, 08:03:27 AM

Title: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: the Wyffe on November 20, 2009, 08:03:27 AM
This one has always bugged me:

Being from a fine southern family, we know all about how to give the best and most tastefully done weddings. It is something taught from the cradle to gentle young ladies.

Unfortunately my daughter lost her mind and married a Yankee...

....Of course my daughter is now very sorry she ever saw this man and his family. We are careful to not say I told you so. She always has a home to come back to and she can sleep in her 258 year old four poster bed she slept in as a child. Maybe she'll dream of a nice southern gentleman.


I'm not from America so this might be cultural...is she trying to be funny with the North South thing?  She just came over to me as a snob and a bigot, and regardless of the etiquette hell that followed, I didn't have any sympathy - in fact, I wondered if she didn't deserve it if the groom's mother picked up on any of that attitude.  She reminded me of the 'minister's wife in the small eastern town'!
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Beyond The Veil on November 20, 2009, 08:16:10 AM
Unfortunately there are a lot of Southerners (and Northerners) who have this attitude about one another. Fortunately, I'm not one of them. Of course, reading it, I'm inclined to think it's a troll. I'm a good ol' Southern Belle and happily married to a Westerner.  :)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on November 20, 2009, 09:01:49 AM
nope. There's a real divide between southerners and northerners in the US.  It's becoming less and less, but still alive and kicking in some places.  It's a hold over from teh civil war
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Sabbyfrog2 on November 20, 2009, 09:12:59 AM
My fathers southern family had this attitude.(and they are not the "classy" type so I have no idea where they got this "better than thou Yankee" attitude from) My dad was divorced from his first wife, a southerner, long before he even met my mom, a Yankee, but their divorce was all my moms fault because she was a "Yankee". My mother was never really accepted into the family and they blame her for my parents divorce despite my fathers affair and other issues. It was because "my father mixed" and that the marriage was doomed from the beginning. According to my grandmother, you are not supposed to marry anyone who was born above the Mason-Dixon line.  Since I was born in Michigan, and my sister in Georgia, I was the outcast grandchild.  ::)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: rashea on November 20, 2009, 09:18:42 AM
I think this is dying down, but it still exists. There are extensive cultural differences between the areas, and that's part of it, but I think the bigger issue is that it's taken a long time for the rifts of the civil war to heal.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Dindrane on November 20, 2009, 09:20:29 AM
It's a real attitude, but it's a very rude one, and it's rather short-sighted as well.

However, there is a decided cultural divide between "Yankees" (most commonly, people from the northeastern United States) and "Southerners" (people from the southeastern United States).  People from the western half of the country are usually members of neither camp.

The cultural divide shows up in language, notions of what makes good hospitality, interpersonal interactions, and a variety of other things.  The mistake that the person quoted in the OP made was not in recognizing that there are differences, but in assuming that one region was better than the other.  And to be completely honest, southerners are not guilty of this particular attitude any more often than northerners are.  Northerners call southerners uneducated hicks and rednecks, and southerners call northerners unrefined boors who wouldn't know good manners if they smacked them in the face.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Hushabye on November 20, 2009, 09:21:12 AM
I hate this attitude because it makes the rest of us Southerners look bad.  And it's asinine to boot.  If you want to marry another Southerner, marry another Southerner.  If you don't, marry whomever you darned well please.  And your families need to stay out of it lest they reveal themselves as ignorant louts.   ::)

I haven't experienced it personally myself, at least not in this direction.  I usually get the "Southerners are stupid/backwards/whatever and a Yankee like me would never be caught dead dating/marrying one."  It's irritating as all get-out either way and makes the attitude-holder look like a boob.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Asharah on November 20, 2009, 09:45:59 AM
http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=2752.0
Already posted and discussed here.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: the Wyffe on November 20, 2009, 10:25:31 AM
Thanks, Asharah - I'm impressed you remember it nearly 2 years on as well!
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: MadMadge43 on November 20, 2009, 10:37:37 AM
I think two years is long enough, there are plenty of new members now that may have new opinions.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: itsmeforever on November 20, 2009, 09:06:43 PM
This line has always bothered me...."and she can sleep in her 258 year old four poster bed she slept in as a child." What does that have to do with anything??? As to the rest of the letter...eh, we have them up here as well. (Yankee snobs, that is). They're everywhere.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: iridaceae on November 21, 2009, 01:00:48 AM
This line has always bothered me...."and she can sleep in her 258 year old four poster bed she slept in as a child." What does that have to do with anything??? As to the rest of the letter...eh, we have them up here as well. (Yankee snobs, that is). They're everywhere.

That's just a further slap at the Yankee who clearly Does Not Have Family Antiques Like That.  "We have a history. He does not."
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Twik on November 21, 2009, 01:19:33 AM
I remember a young man from Boston telling me about a drive he and his college buddies had made from Boston to the Florida Keys. One episode was being refused gas at a gas station in Georgia because they had Massachusetts plates. Ironically, he was the son of an Italian immigrant, so during the Civil War all his ancestors would have been back in Sicily.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: hobish on November 21, 2009, 01:29:40 AM
Unfortunately there are a lot of Southerners (and Northerners) who have this attitude about one another. Fortunately, I'm not one of them. Of course, reading it, I'm inclined to think it's a troll. I'm a good ol' Southern Belle and happily married to a Westerner.  :)

Koneko, wasn't it you who said that where you are calling someone a Yankee was like using the N word? My apologies if it wasn't. I found that so shocking. In the Northeastern US i don't know anyone who takes the North/South thing seriously. It's definitely something that is brought up when someone is trying to be funny. Being called a Yankee would probably make me laugh.

I can't speak for the letter writer. She seems extreme. I know no one who thinks that way.

Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Nuala on November 21, 2009, 07:57:39 AM
Northerners call southerners uneducated hicks and rednecks, and southerners call northerners unrefined boors who wouldn't know good manners if they smacked them in the face.

Hmm.

While this kind of prejudice is alive and well (and can even be found on eHell), I hope you didn't mean for our new poster to think this applies to all Northerners or all Southerners.  Without qualifiers ("some," "an unfortunate few," "too many") it reads that way to me.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Hanna on November 21, 2009, 08:38:52 AM
While this kind of prejudice is alive and well (and can even be found on eHell)
Yep - I encountered it here and was shocked!  It was a long while ago, but I have not been able to forget it.

I think this story is a hoax though.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Dindrane on November 21, 2009, 01:48:25 PM
Northerners call southerners uneducated hicks and rednecks, and southerners call northerners unrefined boors who wouldn't know good manners if they smacked them in the face.

Hmm.

While this kind of prejudice is alive and well (and can even be found on eHell), I hope you didn't mean for our new poster to think this applies to all Northerners or all Southerners.  Without qualifiers ("some," "an unfortunate few," "too many") it reads that way to me.

Sorry, you're right.  I didn't mean for that to be a blanket statement (and serves me right for posting in a hurry!).  It's definitely not a widespread attitude at all.  But generally, when a southerner is going to be narrow-minded and judgmental towards northerners, those are the terms they use (and vice versa).

I say this as someone who was born and raised in the south.  I have never espoused that particular attitude towards people from the northeast (or anywhere, really), but it does annoy the pants off me when someone assumes I must be an uneducated and/or narrow-minded bigot because of where I grew up.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Nuala on November 21, 2009, 03:04:29 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Dindrane.

I am always shocked when I see that kind of bigotry.  I had hoped it would die out with the last century, but we still have a way to go.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: WesternWhiteWolf on November 21, 2009, 10:00:38 PM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

Well, I could imagine someone telling me that I'm from the West, and that I wouldn't understand. It's just so...weird. I remember my AP U.S. History teacher telling us when he took a trip to one of the Carolinas (I forget which one), he had to make sure to tell local people he was from Seattle. He said that if you tell them you're from Washington they'll think you mean Washington D.C., and treat you poorly. People from Washington State 'aren't involved'. ???

Argh...it just drives me crazy to think people judge others based on where they live!
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Twik on November 22, 2009, 01:01:07 AM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

My mother, product of two plus centureies away from Scotland, still used to warn us about not trusting a certain family. There was that little incident back in '92, you see.

That's 1692. Not forgotten.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Alida on November 22, 2009, 02:01:31 AM
I'll never forget, as a kid, being yelled at down South because I was from New Jersey.

Thankfully, I've only run into that attitude once since then over the last 30 odd years since then.

Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: WesternWhiteWolf on November 22, 2009, 04:41:48 PM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

My mother, product of two plus centureies away from Scotland, still used to warn us about not trusting a certain family. There was that little incident back in '92, you see.

That's 1692. Not forgotten.

But I don't understand. Why? ???
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Clara Bow on November 22, 2009, 05:41:14 PM
Because people are crazy?

I think that we get a little flown on what we've "always heard".
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Corbin on November 23, 2009, 12:05:40 PM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

My mother, product of two plus centureies away from Scotland, still used to warn us about not trusting a certain family. There was that little incident back in '92, you see.

That's 1692. Not forgotten.

My grandfather was the same way. Probably about the same incident.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Twik on November 23, 2009, 01:13:11 PM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

My mother, product of two plus centureies away from Scotland, still used to warn us about not trusting a certain family. There was that little incident back in '92, you see.

That's 1692. Not forgotten.

But I don't understand. Why? ???

I think the old concept of "blood feud" is something that runs very deep in humanity (yeah, there's that "people are crazy" thing). Particularly in rural areas, where clashing families repeat the stories over and over about "how *they* did (something awful)". In cities, and our more mobile times, these stories get drowned out by day-to-day life, and the smaller offenses and indignities we suffer daily. But where people still see themselves in "clans" (not just the Scottish types, but broad, interconnected family lines that pass through the ages), an offense against one of your own is an offense against you - even if it happened generations ago.

And remember, until recently, terms like "breeding" actually represented a strong belief in the heritability of both virtue and vice. If your clan got accused of, um, failing in your duties as hosts, people assumed that meant the whole pack of you were capable of the same offense.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Pat on December 05, 2009, 05:09:20 AM
While I don't think any Scot would qualify the massacre of Glencoe as a "little incident", and while, as a German, I believe and have to believe that we must never forget the past, I also think that we can learn from it and that today's generations can not be held responsible for what happened long ago.
When my German father married my French mother in 1962, the war had not even been over for 20 years. It was a great shock to both families. I did get the odd remark as a child during my holidays in France ("you killed the Jews!"), a swastika was drawn into the dust on my German car while on a uni exchange to England in the 1980s, but today, the friendship between France and Germany is such that there are many, many French-German couples and the "hereditary enemy" is not that anymore. I have now lived in France for 25 years and have not experienced any nationalist comments during that time.
If people in our educated, well-informed society can't overcome a war that took place 150 years back, then the only thing I feel for their stupidity is pity....
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Nurvingiel on December 05, 2009, 02:25:01 PM
Hoax or not, why do crappy letters like this one get published on the website anyway?

Is it because rude letter writers have something to teach us as much as polite letter writers who experienced rudeness?
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: afbluebelle on December 05, 2009, 03:30:34 PM
Yeah, pretty much.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Julia S on December 05, 2009, 04:00:11 PM

Koneko, wasn't it you who said that where you are calling someone a Yankee was like using the N word?



There are areas like that?!? I have called all Americans I've ever met (socially and after becoming at the least closely acquainted) Yankees, in a joking manner. To me (and I think a to a lot of Europeans), Yankees = Americans.

I certainly never intended to insult anyone (and as far as I know, it was never taken as such; some called me German in return, which is a lighthearted barb to a Dutch person (well, to this one, anyway :P))
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Twik on December 05, 2009, 06:02:38 PM

Koneko, wasn't it you who said that where you are calling someone a Yankee was like using the N word?



There are areas like that?!? I have called all Americans I've ever met (socially and after becoming at the least closely acquainted) Yankees, in a joking manner. To me (and I think a to a lot of Europeans), Yankees = Americans.

I certainly never intended to insult anyone (and as far as I know, it was never taken as such; some called me German in return, which is a lighthearted barb to a Dutch person (well, to this one, anyway :P))

It was a long time ago (pre-WII), but my father often told the story about being teen trying to impress the young woman from the US who came to visit the neighbours one summer. All went well, until he referred to her as a "Yankee" - it was the first time he learned that not all Americans consider it acceptable nomenclature.

That romance went down in flames fast...  ;)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Lauren on December 05, 2009, 10:09:41 PM
Quote
There are areas like that?!? I have called all Americans I've ever met (socially and after becoming at the least closely acquainted) Yankees, in a joking manner. To me (and I think a to a lot of Europeans), Yankees = Americans.

In Australia all Americans are referred to as Yankees. (or Yanks)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Beyond The Veil on December 05, 2009, 11:37:25 PM
Yeah, I'm the one. I know some southerners that will sock you in the mouth for referring to them what they would call a "dirty yank" or "dirty yankee." I still rather flinch at the word too getting called it online by foreigners. Because here you say it in a negative way, like... "You're being a wussy" interchanged as "You're being a yankee." I hope that made sense.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: iridaceae on December 06, 2009, 12:32:03 AM

Koneko, wasn't it you who said that where you are calling someone a Yankee was like using the N word?



There are areas like that?!? I have called all Americans I've ever met (socially and after becoming at the least closely acquainted) Yankees, in a joking manner. To me (and I think a to a lot of Europeans), Yankees = Americans.

I certainly never intended to insult anyone (and as far as I know, it was never taken as such; some called me German in return, which is a lighthearted barb to a Dutch person (well, to this one, anyway :P))

Yankee covers a very small part of the US; no one from west of the Mississippi is a Yankee, nor is any Midwesterner and of course no Southerner is. It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.


I wouldn't be offended to be called a Yankee,  but it's not accurate; I'm a Midwesterner. Calling someone from the south a Yankee might well offend them.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: DianeRN on December 06, 2009, 04:04:41 PM
For an interesting and sometimes alarming view of some (fortunately the minority) of attitudes in the south, read "Confederates in the Attic" by Tony Horwitz. I moved to TN 27 years ago from northwest IN. To some people I am still an outsider because my people did not fight for the south.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Reika on December 06, 2009, 06:33:19 PM
I got called a dingdangity yankee in one of those mock-joking tones that really isn't a joke and not very funny, but you're supposed to laugh along with them because it was "funny". And it was particularly stupid because this was from a waitress and in the US tips make a big chunk of a waitress's earnings. I did complain to the manager who brushed it off, and didn't leave much of a tip.

Never went back to that place again the year I lived in that area, which was a pity because the food was good. I just didn't like the service I got.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Odium43 on February 16, 2010, 02:22:39 AM
Yeah, I've noticed the whole north/south thing too. When I lived in CO I didn't hear anything about it, then when I moved to TX, I heard a few things but not much. But man, when I moved to MN it was an entirely different story. Besides the people who were my friends, whenever I mentioned living in Texas I got pretty much the same response, "Ew, I could never live in Texas with all those rednecks/hicks/racists/insert southern stereotype here".
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: LadyPekoe on February 16, 2010, 02:45:53 AM
I got called a dingdangity yankee in one of those mock-joking tones that really isn't a joke and not very funny, but you're supposed to laugh along with them because it was "funny". And it was particularly stupid because this was from a waitress and in the US tips make a big chunk of a waitress's earnings. I did complain to the manager who brushed it off, and didn't leave much of a tip.

Never went back to that place again the year I lived in that area, which was a pity because the food was good. I just didn't like the service I got.

I was blown away when I was called (in full seriousness) a yankee b****.  My response was not ehell-approved and probably proved her point but it made me feel better at the time and I was only 20.  The girl who said it was from Oklahoma.  I'm from Iowa and my friend was from Wisconsin so I didn't quite get her point. 

That kind of thing is remarkably rare though.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: guihong on February 16, 2010, 06:58:57 AM
I'm from Ohio, moved to Arkansas.   You don't get this attitude in the large cities so much, mostly because everyone's from somewhere else.  And Florida's got a lot of Northerners ;).  But when we lived out in a rural area, where our neighbors' families had lived on the land since the days of Robert E. Lee and sometimes way back from him, we felt very much like outsiders.  It didn't mean the people weren't polite, but it was there.

gui
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Animala on February 16, 2010, 07:36:03 AM
I've got to say that as much as we moved around when I was a kid we spent very minimal time in the north and I was born in Texas.  Now having lived in the midwest for sometime the locals would be highly offended at the term Yankee, redneck on the other hand about half of them would welcome and the other half would be horrified.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Drunken Housewife on February 16, 2010, 07:37:09 AM
Quote
It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.

 ???

As a girl from Maine, I can assure you my Southern first husband and his family all universally regarded me as a Yankee.  Why on earth would someone exclude Maine?
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: rashea on February 16, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
Quote
It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.

 ???

As a girl from Maine, I can assure you my Southern first husband and his family all universally regarded me as a Yankee.  Why on earth would someone exclude Maine?

I have to agree with you. And NH and VT are definitely yankee territory. If anything, I think there are more of the old fashioned version yankees in Vermont than I ever saw in Massachusetts.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: hobish on February 16, 2010, 01:11:59 PM

To someone outside the US a Yankee is an American. To Americans a Yankee is someone from the North Eastern states. To people in the North Eastern states a Yankee is someone from New England. To New Englanders a Yankee is someone from Connecticut.

 :)


Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mrs. Pilgrim on February 16, 2010, 04:51:08 PM
Quote
It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.

 ???

As a girl from Maine, I can assure you my Southern first husband and his family all universally regarded me as a Yankee.  Why on earth would someone exclude Maine?

That's because you're really a Canadian.  You're not fooling anyone, ya furriner.

(NOTE:  I wish I could find that video where people doing an impromptu geography quiz assigned Maine to Canada!)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mopsy428 on February 16, 2010, 06:28:49 PM
Quote
It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.

 ???

As a girl from Maine, I can assure you my Southern first husband and his family all universally regarded me as a Yankee.  Why on earth would someone exclude Maine?

I have to agree with you. And NH and VT are definitely yankee territory. If anything, I think there are more of the old fashioned version yankees in Vermont than I ever saw in Massachusetts.
I agree, too. The first usage of the word "Yankee" was used in reference to New England. So, the 4 New England states that were original colonies (MA, CT, RI, and NH) are definitely included in "Yankee" territory, as are Maine and Vermont, since they later became New England states shortly after the US became a nation.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Shea on February 16, 2010, 08:15:01 PM
I'm from Washington State, and I just don't understand this kind of behavior. The American Civil War ended in 1865. The war has been over for nearly 150 years. Let it go, people! You won't accomplish anything by 'rising up again' or snubbing anybody. Well, aside from looking silly for holding to some long-obsolete grudge. We're all Americans!!!!

My mother, product of two plus centureies away from Scotland, still used to warn us about not trusting a certain family. There was that little incident back in '92, you see.

That's 1692. Not forgotten.

Are you and I related? My grandmother used to say things like that. Except she was particularly incensed about the incident wherein Clan X gained control of Clan Y's lands and gave all members of Clan Y the boot, causing them to be landless outlaws for the next several hundred years.

And this all happened 1390. Yeah. :P
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: PeasNCues on February 16, 2010, 08:30:47 PM
I think one of the reasons it carries over is because there is a huge cultural divide between the dixies (of which I am a part) and the yankees. How many times have people posted on here that the people in the south are overly familiar? That's part of the culture- part of their pattern of behavior which is to treat everyone as a "darling" or "sugar" or "dear" (as long as they are not a yankee  ;)). Where as in in the north, it is more acceptable to give a respectful distance, not familiarity. In this south, this is considered rude and a rejection - so we reject the whole area for it  ;D (only joking - I don't hold with this nonsense - we're all Americans!!).

But, familiarity is only one of the ways in which the many different areas of the US differ, it is just a bit of a sore spot with the east coast.

But, I can't tell you how many times I've been treated as an ignoramus in the north because I have a little twang in my dialect (I can imagine it is worse for other people because I've had speech lessons to try to minimize the twang since I was young). People immediately dumb it down and talk about how "cute" it is. Gets really annoying when you are on travel for business.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Drunken Housewife on February 16, 2010, 08:52:13 PM
Quote
I agree, too. The first usage of the word "Yankee" was used in reference to New England. So, the 4 New England states that were original colonies (MA, CT, RI, and NH) are definitely included in "Yankee" territory, as are Maine and Vermont, since they later became New England states shortly after the US became a nation.

And indeed Maine was part of the original colonies:  it was part of Massachusetts. It was ceded from Massachusetts and created as an independent state as part of the Missouri Compromise.  But at the time of the original colonies, geographical Maine was part of those first 13 states (as a subpart of Massachusetts). 
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: magician5 on February 16, 2010, 09:27:36 PM
As a Virginian, I'll grandfather y'all in wherever y'all are from ... after all, everyplace is South of someplace else.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Drunken Housewife on February 16, 2010, 11:33:06 PM
Quote
As a Virginian, I'll grandfather y'all in wherever y'all are from ... after all, everyplace is South of someplace else.

Not Maine, baby; we're at the top of the map, and don't forget it!   Nothing North of us but Canada. 

(Although I live on the West Coast nowadays, I'm not from there).
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: afbluebelle on February 17, 2010, 12:20:55 AM
Quote
As a Virginian, I'll grandfather y'all in wherever y'all are from ... after all, everyplace is South of someplace else.

Not Maine, baby; we're at the top of the map, and don't forget it!   Nothing North of us but Canada. 

(Although I live on the West Coast nowadays, I'm not from there).

Alaska? ;)

Completely off the beat, but whenever DH and I do anything business related here in Georgia, I do all of the talking.
 His family is in Florida (he was born there), but from originally from New York... I'm from Colorado, but my father's family is from Arkansas and Texas, and I grew up on a ranch.  My Western twang has melded quite well with the local drawl, and I get a lot of "local" perks and service just because I have a lot more local mannerisms than most of the people that are transplanted here because of the base.  So my Southern born and bred husband gets more grief for being a Yankee than I ever will... This good ole' girl is amused everytime ;D
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: HeebyJeebyLeebee on February 17, 2010, 12:52:33 AM
Luckily, the North South cultural divide seems to be dissolving.  The VAST majority of my family (all from TX and LA) could really give a hoot about it, even with several ancestors serving in the Confederate Army.  About the only true divide I can see is the perspective of the exact controversy that started the war (which is best not debated here). 

Several family members like to tease me for marrying a Yankee, and now marrying another Yankee.  Sweet Pattootie just "defends" himself that he did live in New Orleans for a while. 

Besides, technically, XH is a Midwesterner, and Sweet Pattootie is a Chicagoan (which he teases is a more elite subset of the Midwest).

And while I lived in Chicago, I certainly got teased about being a Texan - sometimes it was rude, usually it was just an awkward tease.  I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Texas?!  Only steers & (rhymes with steers, starts with a Q) come from Texas!" from Full Metal Jacket.  But I can genuinely say that at worst it was only rude and never truly hateful.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Auntie Mame on February 17, 2010, 02:23:45 AM
I think it has nothing to do with being from the North or South.  Or Midwest, or West Coast or planet Zeltan.

Some people just need to feel superior to other people.  That attitude crosses all lines.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mrs. Pilgrim on February 17, 2010, 11:02:27 AM
And while I lived in Chicago, I certainly got teased about being a Texan - sometimes it was rude, usually it was just an awkward tease.  I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Texas?!  Only steers & (rhymes with steers, starts with a Q) come from Texas!" from Full Metal Jacket.

Well, you could always mention that Chuck Norris lives in Texas.  ;D
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mediancat on February 17, 2010, 02:36:04 PM
And while I lived in Chicago, I certainly got teased about being a Texan - sometimes it was rude, usually it was just an awkward tease.  I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Texas?!  Only steers & (rhymes with steers, starts with a Q) come from Texas!" from Full Metal Jacket.

Well, you could always mention that Chuck Norris lives in Texas.  ;D

I thought the relevant quote was from An Officer and a Gentleman.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mopsy428 on February 17, 2010, 03:01:23 PM
Quote
I agree, too. The first usage of the word "Yankee" was used in reference to New England. So, the 4 New England states that were original colonies (MA, CT, RI, and NH) are definitely included in "Yankee" territory, as are Maine and Vermont, since they later became New England states shortly after the US became a nation.

And indeed Maine was part of the original colonies:  it was part of Massachusetts. It was ceded from Massachusetts and created as an independent state as part of the Missouri Compromise.  But at the time of the original colonies, geographical Maine was part of those first 13 states (as a subpart of Massachusetts). 
I know. Maine used to be part of MA, but I just meant that the state of Maine was not part of the original colonies.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: BeagleMommy on February 17, 2010, 03:28:25 PM
You used to see this even in cities.  When my parents were young our city was divided into ethnic neighborhoods.  Here's the break down:

North:  Polish/Hungarian
South:  Irish
East:  German
West:  Italian

When my parents married there was a lot of tsk tsks because my mother hadn't married "a boy from the neighborhood".  My father was born in the North part of the city, but it was a small enclave of Welsh coal miners.  ::)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: HeebyJeebyLeebee on February 17, 2010, 06:03:46 PM
I'm embarrased to admit Ill've not seen Full Metal Jacket or Officer & A Gentleman, I jus heard that quote waaay to much.

Hee hee! Chuck Norris is the unofficial state Bad bottom.  And th real "Walker, TX Ranger" lives down the road from one of the family ranches. 
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: iridaceae on February 18, 2010, 12:34:15 AM
Quote
It's really only the NE Atlantic coastal states: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and possibly Pennsylvania though I would exclude Maine. Vermont and New Hampshire fall into my "maybe" category.

 ???

As a girl from Maine, I can assure you my Southern first husband and his family all universally regarded me as a Yankee.  Why on earth would someone exclude Maine?

Because as a Midwesterner I wouldn't call Maine a Yankee state. It's not a state that pops up when I hear "Yankee".
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: PeasNCues on February 18, 2010, 06:41:56 AM
In my area, everyone from the middle of Virginia up is a Yankee. Northern Virginia is not a term only refering to a geographical area, but also a cultural area. It's very strange.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Winterlight on February 18, 2010, 11:43:24 AM
As a Virginian, I'll grandfather y'all in wherever y'all are from ... after all, everyplace is South of someplace else.

I'm an Alaskan- other than parts of Nunavut, Greenland and a bit of Russia, EVERYBODY is a southerner to me! ;D

This can lead to confusion when I refer to someone from Maine  that way. >:D
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mediancat on February 18, 2010, 11:45:07 AM
In my area, everyone from the middle of Virginia up is a Yankee. Northern Virginia is not a term only refering to a geographical area, but also a cultural area. It's very strange.

I live in Maryland.

Northerners call me a southerner and Southerners call me a northerner. (Really. Friends in Buffalo in Texas have done exactly that.)

I would never have pegged myself as a Yankee, though. That's well north of here.

Rob
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: L.A. Lady on February 18, 2010, 02:45:35 PM
I've been called a Yankee before. I'm from California. ???

The Civil War ended a 150 years ago, so why the "name calling?"
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: PeasNCues on February 18, 2010, 02:48:15 PM
I've been called a Yankee before. I'm from California. ???

The Civil War ended a 150 years ago, so why the "name calling?"
Pure, stubborn tradition handed down through the generations.  :)
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: KarenK on February 19, 2010, 11:40:07 AM
And while I lived in Chicago, I certainly got teased about being a Texan - sometimes it was rude, usually it was just an awkward tease.  I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Texas?!  Only steers & (rhymes with steers, starts with a Q) come from Texas!" from Full Metal Jacket.

Well, you could always mention that Chuck Norris lives in Texas.  ;D

I thought the relevant quote was from An Officer and a Gentleman.

OT

This line's probably been used in nearly every movie about a drill instructor and a bunch of raw recruits.

/OT

Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Sharnita on February 19, 2010, 01:50:40 PM
As far as the Civil War goes, the end of the war was not the end of contention between North and South.  Reconstruction is the source of a lot of bitterness.

ETA:  The North/South conflict also reflects the tensions between industrial advancements and agrarian tradition in the country.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: kherbert05 on February 19, 2010, 09:39:47 PM
I am Texas born and bred - I have no love for the confederacy.

 I use the term Yankee, because to me it describes a region of the country with different customs. My friend is a Yankee - I had to explain what a kolache (sp) and Chilli Con Caso (SP) both are because she was unfamiliar with them. I had to explain why should could NOT say "Boy* come over here now" without the boys in the class exploding.

If  I relocated to her home turf I wouldn't be surprised if she had to explain things to me. For one I couldn't drive in snow.

I only remember 1 time my father or any member of his family used the term to put someone down. It was during Alicia - actually during the Eye. We stepped out of the house to see if there was damage to the huge trees around our house and to check on two widowed neighbors. 2 cars head down the street. Dad stops them. It is two new families from the north east. They are going out to look at the damage. Dad tries to explain the storm isn't over. They called him a Dumb hick. I swear I thought Dad was going to rip their children out of their back seats and take them into our house for safety. They continue to argue - till I interrupt and point out the eye wall heading towards us. The pure look of terror on those parent's faces. They backed down the street rather than turn around. When we got into the house - Dad who rarely swore cursed a blue streak about dumb yankees.

He never like those neighbors - especially after they tried to kill a bunch of bullsnakes.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Auntie Mame on February 20, 2010, 02:15:31 AM
I lived overseas for a couple years.  I taught at a highschool where the kids where super proud of their cultural heritage (they were apples in a country of oranges).  They couldn't understand that I didn't consider myself pink bunny, I had a pink bunny last name, why didn't I call myself a  pink bunny?

I explained I was American, didn't matter who my ancestors were, I was proud my country was blend of every culture.  I further explained that Americans identify themselves by region and take a lot of pride in that.  No region was better or worse, but we each had our on culture that we embraced.  I am a from the Pacific Northwest but was raised by Midwest Lutherans,  I am the perfect mix of Seattle and Prairie Home Companion (think vegan gluten free hotdish, oh yes, I go there), that is my culture and heritage.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mrs. Pilgrim on February 24, 2010, 10:12:04 AM
I use the term Yankee, because to me it describes a region of the country with different customs. My friend is a Yankee - I had to explain what a kolache (sp) and Chilli Con Caso (SP) both are because she was unfamiliar with them. I had to explain why should could NOT say "Boy* come over here now" without the boys in the class exploding.

Yankees are very different from Southerners, yes indeed.  When Mr. P. and I were engaged and went north to introduce me to the family, they kept observing that it was "so hot and humid" up there at the time, and were sure I was uncomfortable.

Heh, I'd just come up from 100-degree heat and 90% humidity.  80 degrees warn't nothin'.

(Oh, you got "kolache" right, but the other is "chili con queso".  ;) )
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: LadyPekoe on February 24, 2010, 01:19:50 PM
I use the term Yankee, because to me it describes a region of the country with different customs. My friend is a Yankee - I had to explain what a kolache (sp) and Chilli Con Caso (SP) both are because she was unfamiliar with them. I had to explain why should could NOT say "Boy* come over here now" without the boys in the class exploding.

Yankees are very different from Southerners, yes indeed.  When Mr. P. and I were engaged and went north to introduce me to the family, they kept observing that it was "so hot and humid" up there at the time, and were sure I was uncomfortable.

Heh, I'd just come up from 100-degree heat and 90% humidity.  80 degrees warn't nothin'.

(Oh, you got "kolache" right, but the other is "chili con queso".  ;) )

And I've had EXACTLY the opposite experience.  The first time I went to New Orleans in July, everyone thought my bff and I must be melting.  It was actually hotter and more humid in Iowa.  New Orleans was a welcome respite :)

OT--the people here in Colorado keep asking me if it's still cold outside.  To me, it's never cold here, so no.  Then again, unless you are in the mountains, Colorado is really temperate.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: missanpan on March 05, 2010, 04:23:51 PM
Last year, my younger sister moved to Anne Arbor, Michigan to attend the Univ. of Michigan.  This is after living in Texas for the past 20+ years.  While at a hair salon, she inadvertently said "y'all" and was squeals of how cute it was.

So imagine this, an Asian female from Texas with Southern nuances to her language.  How would Northerners/Southerners view this anomally?  ;D
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: hobish on March 06, 2010, 03:57:02 AM
Last year, my younger sister moved to Anne Arbor, Michigan to attend the Univ. of Michigan.  This is after living in Texas for the past 20+ years.  While at a hair salon, she inadvertently said "y'all" and was squeals of how cute it was.

So imagine this, an Asian female from Texas with Southern nuances to her language.  How would Northerners/Southerners view this anomally?  ;D

I would think it is adorable.

--Northerner, with Asian cousins who have Southern accents.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: Mrs. Pilgrim on March 06, 2010, 06:16:44 PM
Last year, my younger sister moved to Anne Arbor, Michigan to attend the Univ. of Michigan.  This is after living in Texas for the past 20+ years.  While at a hair salon, she inadvertently said "y'all" and was squeals of how cute it was.

So imagine this, an Asian female from Texas with Southern nuances to her language.  How would Northerners/Southerners view this anomally?  ;D

I believe I speak for most Texans when I say...Texan.
Title: Re: Horrible attitude from the letter writer
Post by: aventurine on March 06, 2010, 07:06:39 PM
So imagine this, an Asian female from Texas with Southern nuances to her language.  How would Northerners/Southerners view this anomally?  ;D

From Louisiana:  A neighbor.   :)