Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Topic started by: LadyPekoe on August 05, 2010, 09:36:51 AM

Title: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyPekoe on August 05, 2010, 09:36:51 AM
My mom told me to post this after I was complaining about it to her :)

My side of the street is all duplexes.  Each half is fenced in with a four foot tall chain-link fence.  You can see into the backyards from the parallel street and from the perpendicular street.  I can see in to every backyard from my backyard, there are no bushes, trees, or landscaping to speak of.

The neighbor child appears to be 3-5 years old.  He runs around naked in the backyard all the time.  It makes me extremely uncomfortable, partially because I don't want to look at him.  He also has taken to grabbing the chain-link fence between our properties and gyrating.  This, too, makes me very uncomfortable, and it enrages the dog so she barks a LOT.  I then have trouble getting her back in the house because I'm trying to grab her without looking at the child.

The parents are usually outside with the kid, so it's not like he just escaped.  There is no pool that he was splashing around in.  Even a pair of underwear would solve this problem for me.

Is there anything I can say to the neighbors? 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Giggity on August 05, 2010, 09:39:56 AM
Nothing I can think of seems adequate or correct, so I'm just posting to see replies.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: DangerMouth on August 05, 2010, 09:41:52 AM
the naked wouldn't bother me, the gyrating at the fence and making the dog bark definately would. I'd think you could ask your neighbor to keep him off the fence?
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: magiccat26 on August 05, 2010, 09:44:53 AM
My mom told me to post this after I was complaining about it to her :)

My side of the street is all duplexes.  Each half is fenced in with a four foot tall chain-link fence.  You can see into the backyards from the parallel street and from the perpendicular street.  I can see in to every backyard from my backyard, there are no bushes, trees, or landscaping to speak of.

The neighbor child appears to be 3-5 years old.  He runs around naked in the backyard all the time.  It makes me extremely uncomfortable, partially because I don't want to look at him.  He also has taken to grabbing the chain-link fence between our properties and gyrating.  This, too, makes me very uncomfortable, and it enrages the dog so she barks a LOT.  I then have trouble getting her back in the house because I'm trying to grab her without looking at the child.

The parents are usually outside with the kid, so it's not like he just escaped.  There is no pool that he was splashing around in.  Even a pair of underwear would solve this problem for me.

Is there anything I can say to the neighbors? 

You really are between a rock and a hard place.  Because of the bolded, I would be worried that certain "sensitive" parts could be injured (by the dog or the fence)...but I honestly cannot think of a way of wording this without sounding like a) the dog is dangerous b) you're staring at the kid's privates.

 ???  Other eHellions are much better at this than I am.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: mj on August 05, 2010, 09:49:11 AM
We have this going on in our neighborhood too.  But the kid is older, 7.  And he screams about his wee wee.

Anyway, I talked to Mom and mentioned that my daughter would like to go outside and play but I'm not comfortable with Jr.  She understood, apparently Grandma was letting Jr outside like that.  Since then he's been in various states of undress, including his superman underwear and girly accessories, but he's covered the important parts!

Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Shoo on August 05, 2010, 09:51:49 AM
There is a huge difference between a 3 year old and a 5 year old.  If he's just 3, it wouldn't really bother me, personally.  Naked is a preferred state of being for a toddler.

A five year old, on the other hand, is well past the baby stage and should not be outside naked.  The next time you are speaking to these particular neighbors, you could mention that you had guests over who saw him naked and it made them very uncomfortable.  And come to think of it, you are not comfortable with it either.  On top of THAT, the boy is aggravating the dog, which is bothering everybody.  If they don't take the proper cues from that, they are hopeless.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Carnation on August 05, 2010, 10:31:46 AM
Plant shrubbery.

With thorns. :P
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Kaire on August 05, 2010, 10:37:33 AM
Perhaps you could mention that ALL eyes can see their child and they might want to have him wear something.

I'm not sure how you do that though without implying you have phedophile neighbors and creating perhaps a different issue?
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Sharnita on August 05, 2010, 10:41:35 AM
I think you can talk to them about the child grabbing the fence when the dog is out but beyond that, no.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Marleigh on August 05, 2010, 10:43:25 AM
I would call childrens services.  Neither a 3 yo or a 5 yo should have enough sexual knowledge to be intentionally gyrating naked in front of a neighbor.  Sexual knowledge that is too advanced for a child's age can be a symptom of abuse.  OP, I think the creepy feeling this gives you could be an intuition.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 10:51:54 AM
I would call childrens services.  Neither a 3 yo or a 5 yo should have enough sexual knowledge to be intentionally gyrating naked in front of a neighbor.  Sexual knowledge that is too advanced for a child's age can be a symptom of abuse.  OP, I think the creepy feeling this gives you could be an intuition.

I think your response is a little OTT.  Also calling child services would be OTT. We have no idea if the child's doing it due to sexual knowledge.  It could be very unintentional, and before making a complain, talk to the parents.

My advice to the OP is to have a nice neighbor to neighbor talk. Just explain about how uncomfortable it's making you. For all we know, he could be grabbing the chain link fence to bother the dog.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Marleigh on August 05, 2010, 10:59:53 AM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: DangerMouth on August 05, 2010, 11:09:42 AM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.

While I get what you are saying, considering the average music video these days, I'm not sure that gyrating any longer qualifies as innapropriate 'sexual knowlege'.

But I see no reason she can't say to the parents: "Your child is making me uncomfortable when he acts like that, plus he is upsetting the dog".

And I'd also be considering planting something fast-growing along that side of the fence.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 11:21:36 AM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.

I think your response was OTT because you took it and crossed that line into an abuse claim. I don't see evidence of abuse or any "advance" sexual knowledge. The child's expressing himself inappropriately, and something needs to be done about it. 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Leather Lady on August 05, 2010, 11:24:05 AM
A naked toddler running around in his own yard doesn't bother me. Shaking the fence and annoying the dog are the issues I would discuss with the neighbor.  Not the cops, childrens services etc.- just the kid's parents.  

OP: Why are you so bothered by an undressed little kid?  That seems to be more of an issue with you than the fence and the dog.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: PeterM on August 05, 2010, 11:24:56 AM
But I see no reason she can't say to the parents: "Your child is making me uncomfortable when he acts like that, plus he is upsetting the dog".

I'd change the order and put the dog first, with "also, him running around nekkid all the time makes me uncomfortable." I don't know if it'd actually make any difference, but something concrete like "harassing the dog and making it bark loudly" sounds like a safer opener to me.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Marleigh on August 05, 2010, 11:26:37 AM
Harlow - I guess the other part of my suggestion is that I can't think of another route that would get the behavior to stop.  If OP is uncomfortable with it and the parents aren't, no one but the authorities can put a stop to it.  And they should, because who knows who else is seeing the child.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 11:29:37 AM
Harlow - I guess the other part of my suggestion is that I can't think of another route that would get the behavior to stop.  If OP is uncomfortable with it and the parents aren't, no one but the authorities can put a stop to it.  And they should, because who knows who else is seeing the child.

The OP hasn't done anything to stop it as of yet. OP hasn't talked to the parents, it's why she's posted, looking for advice. The parents are probably clueless and doesn't know how their behavior is affecting outsiders. People have different ideas on whats acceptable. That's okay, because the parents might apperciate the OP talking to them about their son's behavior.

Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Shores on August 05, 2010, 11:31:21 AM
A naked toddler running around in his own yard doesn't bother me. Shaking the fence and annoying the dog are the issues I would discuss with the neighbor.  Not the cops, childrens services etc.- just the kid's parents.  
Agreed. I would present it as an annoyance at the child taunting and riling up the dog. The child being naked on his own property is the parents decision and, while you were be perfectly fine in telling them it makes you uncomfortable, they would not be rude to refuse to change their habits (presuming legality, of course, but in the majority of places, this behavior would be fine). However, they would be rude to continue allowing the child to tease the dog. Personally, I wouldn't even mention that the actions APPEAR to be gyrating motions from your viewpoint, just that he's shaking the fencing and taunting the dog.

Beyond that, put up some bushes on that side of your yard.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: HeebyJeebyLeebee on August 05, 2010, 11:37:19 AM
But I see no reason she can't say to the parents: "Your child is making me uncomfortable when he acts like that, plus he is upsetting the dog".

I'd change the order and put the dog first, with "also, him running around nekkid all the time makes me uncomfortable." I don't know if it'd actually make any difference, but something concrete like "harassing the dog and making it bark loudly" sounds like a safer opener to me.

I think this is a good route.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Giggity on August 05, 2010, 11:42:34 AM
Get you a nice privet hedge going. (I grew up calling it ligustrum.) Prickly and thick!
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyPekoe on August 05, 2010, 11:43:48 AM
But it really is the nudity that seems to upset the dog.  The kid shakes the fence all the time and is one of the few people that the dog DOESN'T tend to bark at when they are next to the fence.  In fact, I think the kid is particularly good with my dog (who is very, very shy)--they have only met through the fence but seem to be on better terms than she is with most people.  It's only when he's naked that she gets so upset :)  


I can't plant bushes because I'm renting (I maybe the only renter--it goes Street-neighbor-Me-Naked-neighbor-four more yards-street) and I know the immediate three around me all own their halves.  If it was my property, we would have a 8 foot privacy fence and this would be a non-issue.

I have no idea how old the kid is, I'm not good at that sort of thing.  When does it stop being acceptable to be publicly totally nude?  Honestly, I can't imagine letting my kids run around naked in public--and when your yard is visible from the streets, it is public.  It makes me uncomfortable for a multitude of reasons.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: hobish on August 05, 2010, 11:47:34 AM

You could ask your landlord to plant something, or if they would mind if you planted something.

The naked wouldn't bother me; but i'd be right ticked about the kid shaking the fence and riling up my dog. Some sort of fenceline planting may solve all three.


Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Twik on August 05, 2010, 11:51:56 AM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.

While I get what you are saying, considering the average music video these days, I'm not sure that gyrating any longer qualifies as innapropriate 'sexual knowlege'.

I'd class it as "inappropriate, but not uncommon".
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Wulfie on August 05, 2010, 11:52:24 AM
Or, if your landlord will not let you plant something see if you can install privacy slats in the fence. I have seen them here in Seattle but don't know how widespread they are. They are slats of plastic like blinds that you weave into the fence. They are a bit of work to install but it would block out the "view" and may help your dog not be disturbed as much.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: DangerMouth on August 05, 2010, 12:06:15 PM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.

While I get what you are saying, considering the average music video these days, I'm not sure that gyrating any longer qualifies as innapropriate 'sexual knowlege'.

I'd class it as "inappropriate, but not uncommon".

I worded that poorly, I was actually aiming for 'innapropriate', but not because the child has sexual knowlege from abuse but rather mimicking something he doesn't understand. Lord knows my 9yo niece does a fair bit of shaking her booty, and I can (safely, I hope) assume it's because of music videos (mainly because she's singing Beyonce or Shakira while doing it :P)
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: hobish on August 05, 2010, 12:09:44 PM
Or, if your landlord will not let you plant something see if you can install privacy slats in the fence. I have seen them here in Seattle but don't know how widespread they are. They are slats of plastic like blinds that you weave into the fence. They are a bit of work to install but it would block out the "view" and may help your dog not be disturbed as much.

I'm on the East Coast and we have those here, too. I think that is a good idea.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: PeasNCues on August 05, 2010, 12:14:19 PM
OP: Why are you so bothered by an undressed little kid?  That seems to be more of an issue with you than the fence and the dog.

In many, many areas it is considered inappropriate for kids above a certain age to be running around in the buff.

3-5 does seem kind of old to do this.

It would make me really uncomfortable as well. But, that is in keeping with the societal norms of the area, so I know it's not just an "issue with me." :)
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: jimithing on August 05, 2010, 12:16:54 PM
I would call childrens services.  Neither a 3 yo or a 5 yo should have enough sexual knowledge to be intentionally gyrating naked in front of a neighbor.  Sexual knowledge that is too advanced for a child's age can be a symptom of abuse.  OP, I think the creepy feeling this gives you could be an intuition.

I work with abused children, and with children in general, and this is not true. I actually don't think that this is advanced knowledge for their age, and even if it were, advanced knowledge does not always indicate child abuse. I mimicked a lot of stuff I saw on TV, when I was that age, and I was never abused. I feel this suggestion it quite out of line.

Also, didn't we just have a thread about a poster who was sunbathing nude in their backyard, and everyone said that it was fine and no one else's business? I don't understand how this is any different?

I do agree that the issue with disturbing the dog, and shaking the fence can be addressed.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Browyn on August 05, 2010, 12:18:51 PM
I apologize that I can't quote Harlow's post because my phone won't let me, but allow me to explain myself a little bit.  A kid running through the yard naked once in awhile is no big deal and fairly common.  The same child doing it all the time, and the parents being totally fine with it, when strangers can obviously see the child, does not sit well with me.  And maybe I read too much into it, but "gyrating" to me does have a not-so-nice connotation.  OP admits this makes her uncomfortable.  I would have enough concern fir the safety of the child to call the proper authorities.

While I get what you are saying, considering the average music video these days, I'm not sure that gyrating any longer qualifies as inappropriate 'sexual knowledge'.

I'd class it as "inappropriate, but not uncommon".

I agree he should not be outside naked but the "gyrating" could be very innocent.  The closest thing to a music video my 5 yr old has ever seen is watching "so you think you can dance" with me.  I watched him dancing and wiggling in front of the full length mirror after his bath recently.  He was amused because "Mummy, my pee pee bounces up and down"
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Carnation on August 05, 2010, 12:24:10 PM


OP: Why are you so bothered by an undressed little kid?  That seems to be more of an issue with you than the fence and the dog.

People have the right to be in their own back yard without having to look at five year old, gyrating naked boys.
There's something "not nice" about it. 


At what age do they tell him to put some pants on, already?
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Lovemykids on August 05, 2010, 12:26:07 PM
Wanted to agree that the fence shaking and bothering the dog would be a problem, but a toddler running around naked (especially if he's potty training) wouldn't be a big deal to me.  I know people who intentionally wait till summer to potty train boys so they can let them run around naked and get them to the potty more quickly that way.

Also -- my younger DD, who is 3 1/2, likes to stand in front of her baby brother when he's in his bouncer, and clap her hands and shake her bottom.  She calls it the "wiggle dance."  I'm trying to discourage her from it because I think it's inappropriate.  But I mention it because this is a chld who has never watched anything on TV other than Playhouse Disney or Nick Junior (preschool-aged shows) -- hasn't even ever seen a full-length G movie, and CERTAINLY hasn't seen her father or me do anything remotely like this.  So she's getting this from her own sense of rhythm and isn't abused or sexualized.

My kids like to go out on the deck of our townhouse to eat popsicles -- I often let them do so in just their underwear because it's REALLY hot here, and that way they won't get popsicle drips on their clothes . . .
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 12:28:31 PM
I would call childrens services.  Neither a 3 yo or a 5 yo should have enough sexual knowledge to be intentionally gyrating naked in front of a neighbor.  Sexual knowledge that is too advanced for a child's age can be a symptom of abuse.  OP, I think the creepy feeling this gives you could be an intuition.

I work with abused children, and with children in general, and this is not true. I actually don't think that this is advanced knowledge for their age, and even if it were, advanced knowledge does not always indicate child abuse. I mimicked a lot of stuff I saw on TV, when I was that age, and I was never abused. I feel this suggestion it quite out of line.

Also, didn't we just have a thread about a poster who was sunbathing nude in their backyard, and everyone said that it was fine and no one else's business? I don't understand how this is any different?

I do agree that the issue with disturbing the dog, and shaking the fence can be addressed.

Yes, that was me and the cops were called on me. Did I get arrested? No. I think with this, the police couldn't do anything unless maybe a stern talk about upsetting the dog/shaking the fence.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: C0mputerGeek on August 05, 2010, 12:39:55 PM
Also, didn't we just have a thread about a poster who was sunbathing nude in their backyard, and everyone said that it was fine and no one else's business? I don't understand how this is any different?

IIRC, that person was in a backyard with a locked privacy fence. She could not be seen from other homes. The children that saw her naked were trespassing in her backyard. They were not in their own yards.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Amava on August 05, 2010, 12:42:10 PM
Also, didn't we just have a thread about a poster who was sunbathing nude in their backyard, and everyone said that it was fine and no one else's business? I don't understand how this is any different?

IIRC, that person was in a backyard with a locked privacy fence. She could not be seen from other homes. The children that saw her naked were trespassing in her backyard. They were not in their own yards.
Yes, that is correct. It was a whole different thing.
The children in this topic are not in a private area. They are visible by others (who are not trespassing in any way).

Also, the poster of that previous topic was not hanging on to the fence & girating. (lol imagine! - or maybe, rather don't imagine )
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Kaire on August 05, 2010, 12:51:16 PM
OP: Why are you so bothered by an undressed little kid?  That seems to be more of an issue with you than the fence and the dog.

If I was out in the yard and routinely had a naked child in my vision sight, I would be bothered.  I'm not talking potty training escapee, I'm talking buck naked, just playing child.  I would feel awkward because of the effort involved to make sure I'm not looking at the kid.  I wouldn't talk to him, I wouldn't interact with him, and honestly I'd probably go in just because of the situation. It would be my issue I guess, but my issue would be that I don't want to have ANY interaction with a naked child who isn't belonging to friends or family.
 
I have a 2 1/2 year old great nephew and I baby sat him last week and he refused clothes to the point of having a melt down.  It didn't bother me to have him doing that, but I didn't let him out of the house.  If he was wanting to go out, clothes would be a must.  Naked at that age with family only is one thing, naked in public can unfortunately cause a lot of unpleasant situations.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: immadz on August 05, 2010, 12:55:42 PM
To be honest, if someone told me that a naked three year old hanging on a fence and taunting their dog was sexually inappropriate, I would think it was in the eyes of the viewer. Most three year olds like to be naked, they also wiggle and they also like dogs. I appreciate that you are not comfortable with the view and support your decision to approach the parents. However, there is nothing sexual about this behavior - advanced or not.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: PeasNCues on August 05, 2010, 12:57:57 PM
To be honest, if someone told me that a naked three year old hanging on a fence and taunting their dog was sexually inappropriate, I would think it was in the eyes of the viewer. Most three year olds like to be naked, they also wiggle and they also like dogs. I appreciate that you are not comfortable with the view and support your decision to approach the parents. However, there is nothing sexual about this behavior - advanced or not.

Oh, I don't think it is conciously s*xual behavior, but it is considered greatly inappropriate behavior.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Leather Lady on August 05, 2010, 01:24:14 PM
Potty training a toddler in the back yard during the summer occured to me, too.

To get the problem solved, talk to the neighbors.  You don't need to involve authorities over the problem of "little boy is shaking fence and upsetting dog" without giving them a chance to solve the problem. 

I think it's fine to mention that you're uncomfortable with the lack of clothes, too.  They may ignore you, but at least you let them know how you felt.  It occurred to me that if I were a man, and it was a naked little girl of any age, I'd be uncomfortable, and I wouldn't want to be accused of anything improper.

Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyPekoe on August 05, 2010, 01:25:27 PM
OP here--to clarify, I don't think he's being sexual!  It just makes me uncomfortable.

And he's not an escapee--he's playing when he's naked.  Using his toy-lawnmower, playing with his playset, etc.  It is not the norm to be naked outside at any age in my experience.  At least put a diaper or underpants (depending on age) on the kid! 

LL, DH refuses to leave the house when the kid is naked outside.  This is a problem because DH does almost all of the lawnwork. 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Master_Edward on August 05, 2010, 01:26:55 PM
Your dog is upset because the kid is naked?? Now I've heard everything, LOL! Too funny.

Ed.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Twik on August 05, 2010, 01:33:10 PM
To be honest, if someone told me that a naked three year old hanging on a fence and taunting their dog was sexually inappropriate, I would think it was in the eyes of the viewer.

It well may be, but someone might argue that having a naked sixteen year old running around a backyard in full view of other people was only sexual "in the eyes of the viewer", if the sixteen year old was "just trying to be comfortable". Civilized people have to take the viewer's viewpoint, so to speak, into consideration.

The fact is, that other people's nakedness (at almost any age) puts a certain feeling of constraint on the viewer. If a neighbour constantly looked in the direction of the child, I suspect the parents might start going, "S/he's creepy, s/he keeps staring." So, the viewer then has to try to look in any direction BUT the naked person, which is awkward and unnatural itself. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to ask to be able to enjoy their own backyards without getting into sexual politics. If the parents want Baby to run unfettered by clothing, they can easily put in a privacy barrier, and the issue goes away.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 01:35:19 PM
OP here--to clarify, I don't think he's being sexual!  It just makes me uncomfortable.

And he's not an escapee--he's playing when he's naked.  Using his toy-lawnmower, playing with his playset, etc.  It is not the norm to be naked outside at any age in my experience.  At least put a diaper or underpants (depending on age) on the kid! 

LL, DH refuses to leave the house when the kid is naked outside.  This is a problem because DH does almost all of the lawnwork. 

No one assumes your thinking it's sexual. Another poster brought up the point so it has been discussed.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyClaire on August 05, 2010, 01:37:04 PM
Your dog is upset because the kid is naked?? Now I've heard everything, LOL! Too funny.

Ed.


You'd be surprised by how weird dogs can get about things like that.

One of my mom's dogs absolutely hates it when DF wears a beanie. He will bark, growl, and go nuts until DF removes the beanie. Another dog she used to have freaked out when I came over wearing a dress one day. I'd always worn jeans or shorts, so I guess the unfamiliar clothing startled it.

So I can see a dog being upset by something being "different" about a person like being naked.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Onyx_TKD on August 05, 2010, 01:38:06 PM
A naked toddler running around in his own yard doesn't bother me. Shaking the fence and annoying the dog are the issues I would discuss with the neighbor.  Not the cops, childrens services etc.- just the kid's parents.  

OP: Why are you so bothered by an undressed little kid?  That seems to be more of an issue with you than the fence and the dog.

I have seen many people on this board and others say that they are uncomfortable with interacting with other people's children even in public (and with everyone clothed), because they are afraid of being accused of being child predators. If our society is so quick to assume those motivations, which can seriously ruin the life of an innocent accusee, then I can't blame people for being cautious. The parents presumably think neighbors seeing their naked child is ok, but what about the other neighbors? What if there's a nut two doors down who will accuse the OP of pedophilia for looking at a naked little boy, even if he's displaying himself on her fence?

Regardless of possible accusations, in most of USA society it is considered inappropriate to be displaying or looking at people's privates in public. Some parts of society may make an exception for naked small children, but others do not.

IMO, the OP's discomfort with seeing a stranger's private parts is a completely understandable product of our society. It's not an "issue with [the OP]"; it's an issue with society. Whether those societal norms are "right" or "wrong" has nothing to do with the OP.

On Topic: I think it would be worth talking to the parents about him bothering the dog and the nakedness making you uncomfortable, assuming that the neighbors seem to be reasonable people in general.

I also like the idea of trying to add some sort of privacy feature to the fence. If planting something along the fence is out of the question, then the privacy slats or some opaque panels to place on the inside of the fence might work. Some potted plants (e.g. bushes or vines on a trellis) might also work; they could be placed along the fence without being a permanent addition. If the barrier goes up and he is still managing to provoke the dog, then you can talk to the parents on that basis.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Harlow on August 05, 2010, 01:39:50 PM
Your dog is upset because the kid is naked?? Now I've heard everything, LOL! Too funny.

Ed.


You'd be surprised by how weird dogs can get about things like that.

One of my mom's dogs absolutely hates it when DF wears a beanie. He will bark, growl, and go nuts until DF removes the beanie. Another dog she used to have freaked out when I came over wearing a dress one day. I'd always worn jeans or shorts, so I guess the unfamiliar clothing startled it.

So I can see a dog being upset by something being "different" about a person like being naked.

I'm wondering if it's not the act of the child's naked body but the fact he's shaking the chain link fence.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: mj on August 05, 2010, 01:42:49 PM
Your dog is upset because the kid is naked?? Now I've heard everything, LOL! Too funny.

Ed.


You'd be surprised by how weird dogs can get about things like that.

One of my mom's dogs absolutely hates it when DF wears a beanie. He will bark, growl, and go nuts until DF removes the beanie. Another dog she used to have freaked out when I came over wearing a dress one day. I'd always worn jeans or shorts, so I guess the unfamiliar clothing startled it.

So I can see a dog being upset by something being "different" about a person like being naked.

One of my dogs is very particular about purses.  He doesn't like any purse that has a pattern or sparkes/decorations.  If it's all one color purse, he's fine. 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Suze on August 05, 2010, 01:46:07 PM
lets see he is holding on to the fence and shaking it

sounds like a little dog - or any dog would see this as an aggesive act

clothing or no clothing
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Master_Edward on August 05, 2010, 01:51:05 PM
I agree Suze, that would be my guess.

Ed.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Wendy Moira Angela Pan on August 05, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
But it really is the nudity that seems to upset the dog.  The kid shakes the fence all the time and is one of the few people that the dog DOESN'T tend to bark at when they are next to the fence.  In fact, I think the kid is particularly good with my dog (who is very, very shy)--they have only met through the fence but seem to be on better terms than she is with most people.  It's only when he's naked that she gets so upset :)  

LadyPekoe has already refuted the idea that it's just the kid shaking the fence that upsets the dog.

I think I would ask the parents if they could send the boy out in trunks or undies or something when I was using my yard as well. If they refused. I might get some large potted plants to arrange against my fence and block the view.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Suze on August 05, 2010, 01:57:45 PM
Hey Cuz -- would Josh - Jake and Jessie put up with fence rattleing like that when they were still here? (three Rots)

let alone the ding dongs you have now?

but on the whole I really think the kid should have some sort of pants on
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Wulfie on August 05, 2010, 02:00:45 PM
I just created a S/O thread for these "things that drive your pets nuts" stories. I can see them being really fun to read!
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: DoubleTrouble on August 05, 2010, 02:49:19 PM
But it really is the nudity that seems to upset the dog.  The kid shakes the fence all the time and is one of the few people that the dog DOESN'T tend to bark at when they are next to the fence.  In fact, I think the kid is particularly good with my dog (who is very, very shy)--they have only met through the fence but seem to be on better terms than she is with most people.  It's only when he's naked that she gets so upset :)  

If it really is the nudity that bothers the dog could go with something along the lines that the dog could get to the sensitive parts while the child is nude? Especially since it's a chain link fence, sensitive parts could be snapped at quite easily. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: alegria on August 05, 2010, 02:59:19 PM
There's a whole bunch of issues, which boil down to "your right to enjoy your property doesn't trump my right to enjoy mine."  The naked child is causing a multitude of issues for the OP:
(1) being uncomfortable with an unrelated naked child in her sight, due to societal issues about pedophilia and assigning blame
(2) her husband not doing the yardwork due to (1)
(3) her dog being stressed out by the child climbing/shaking the fence
(4) worry about her dog snapping at the child due to (3) and causing disproportionate damage due to the child being naked
(5) worry about (5) causing her dog to be picked up by animal control or put down
(6) worry about (5) or (1) causing her to be accused or sued

So she doesn't use her yard at all in order to avoid all of these issues, which stem from the neighbors allowing their child to run around naked in public, which is not a societal norm.  Even completely ignoring the legal/societal aspects of noticing a blatantly naked child, there are plenty of other issues that would be solved by the child wearing underpants.

By etiquette, she should speak to her neighbor first and let her know that the child is quite visible, and perhaps she should have him wear underpants.  Next would be talking to her landlord about restriction of enjoyment of the property.  Anything beyond that would be into legal territory, IMO, which is not our territory.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: demarco on August 05, 2010, 03:47:33 PM

If it really is the nudity that bothers the dog could go with something along the lines that the dog could get to the sensitive parts while the child is nude? Especially since it's a chain link fence, sensitive parts could be snapped at quite easily. Just a thought.

I was thinking the exact same thing but I couldn't think of a way to put it as delicately as you did. 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: MovieLover on August 05, 2010, 04:22:08 PM
I would probably file a police complaint.  Myself and my guests should not have to subjected to a child's nudity just because the parents are OK with it.  I also don't think I should have to think up a clever ruse such as faux concern that the child get sunburned or bit as a basis for asking the parents to please clothe their child.  It's just not cool with me and I think the parents are entitled for foisting this situation off on their neighbors.

If the parents want to let their kids do this then they need to install a privacy fence.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: ChristiKayAnn on August 05, 2010, 04:35:07 PM
I keep having the thought that if the back yards are visible to the whole block it just isn't safe for this little one to be outside naked.  We can never know for sure who are neighbors are and I would be afraid of making a child a target to a predator by letting him (or her) run around unclothed where they could be seen. Perhaps this might be something that could be mentioned to the neighbor.

No matter how innocent it is for the parents and child all it would take would be one person with a sick mind and this child could be scarred for life.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Virg on August 05, 2010, 04:48:53 PM
Twinwithtwins wrote:

"If it really is the nudity that bothers the dog could go with something along the lines that the dog could get to the sensitive parts while the child is nude?"

Honestly I don't think you even need to go that far, and such a discussion is overextension because it would be just as bad for the child to get a hand bitten as his boy bits.  If your dog goes crazy when he's naked but doesn't when he's clothed, it's an easy sell to tell his parents exactly that, and ask that they dress him because of that.  If that request doesn't work, then putting up a privacy barrier is the best bet.  Heck, if you're on a budget a sheet of cloth or plywood applied to the fence will solve the problem.

ChristiKayAnn wrote:

"I keep having the thought that if the back yards are visible to the whole block it just isn't safe for this little one to be outside naked.  We can never know for sure who are neighbors are and I would be afraid of making a child a target to a predator by letting him (or her) run around unclothed where they could be seen."

Honestly, the presence or absence of clothing isn't likely to have much effect on his level of risk.  Anyone who's likely to try to do anything to him in a fenced-in backyard (or abduct him from such a yard) isn't going to be put off by the fact that he's in clothes.  It's the lack of supervision that matters here, and that's an entirely different discussion.

Virg
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: JoieGirl7 on August 05, 2010, 05:05:24 PM
If the parents want their child to go about undressed, they need to create a private space for that.  At present, the chain link fence does not make the space private.

In the case of the nude sunbather, that person could not be seen by others unless they unlocked her gate and entered her yard and violated that privacy.
 
I think its fine to say "Would you please not let your child run around naked, it makes me uncomfortable and unable to enjoy my yard.  And please keep him off the fence too. I have a dog and I would hate for either him or my dog to be injured by your son shaking the fence."
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: squeakers on August 05, 2010, 09:43:50 PM
I am so glad that in my neighborhood no one batted an eye at my boys who all ran naked in the yard as toddlers.  No fences to shake, I guess.  And we were on a corner so were visible no matter which way you came.

Maybe they all figured "private property" and just averted their eyes?  Maybe naked toddlers was not a big deal?

Now the fence shaking should be addressed.  That definitely aggravates dogs.

Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Carnation on August 05, 2010, 11:15:35 PM



One of my dogs is very particular about purses.  He doesn't like any purse that has a pattern or sparkes/decorations.  If it's all one color purse, he's fine. 

A Fashion Police dog?
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: saddened on August 06, 2010, 12:23:56 AM
A bit O/T...

Is it common to have chain link fences so everyone can see into all the other yards?

I find this quite odd myself, since every single place I've lived has a fence where you just can't see into the neighbour's yards easily (I'm in Australia btw). I have to admit, I probably wouldn't even want to use my yard (even to just sit outside and enjoy the sunshine) if everyone could see in. It would feel very intrusive to me.

Back on topic...

I would approach the neighbour and raise the issue of the child shaking the fence to bother your dog. You really don't want other neighbours then complaining about a barking dog. If needed, you can bring up the fact that the child being naked seems to bother the dog more than when clothed.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Doll Fiend on August 06, 2010, 12:32:40 AM
I would wonder what the local police would have to say if you called and questioned the Non-emergency line? They may have some suggestions based on OP's local laws and customs. Some neighborhoods, a naked toddler wouldn't bring a second glance. Others would warrant a call from CPS. And what if this child is 5 rather than 3. That is far more than just a toddler. That is an age that I would expect to know better.

I do know people who live their lives as naturists. They keep things though from the public eye. Privacy fences, bushes, trees, and live in an area were the neighbors are farther apart than average. Yes they enjoy their nudity. BUT They do not force others to see it either.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: MariaE on August 06, 2010, 03:16:57 AM
I would probably file a police complaint.  Myself and my guests should not have to subjected to a child's nudity just because the parents are OK with it.  I also don't think I should have to think up a clever ruse such as faux concern that the child get sunburned or bit as a basis for asking the parents to please clothe their child.  It's just not cool with me and I think the parents are entitled for foisting this situation off on their neighbors.

If the parents want to let their kids do this then they need to install a privacy fence.

I think that's a huge overreaction considering that the OP hasn't even tried talking to the parents yet. If she talks to the parents and they don't care or do nothing, then perhaps contact the police non-emergency line and ask for options, but talking to the parents should be the first step. Chances are, they don't even know it bothers her.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: zoidberg on August 06, 2010, 04:10:17 AM

ChristiKayAnn wrote:

"I keep having the thought that if the back yards are visible to the whole block it just isn't safe for this little one to be outside naked.  We can never know for sure who are neighbors are and I would be afraid of making a child a target to a predator by letting him (or her) run around unclothed where they could be seen."

Honestly, the presence or absence of clothing isn't likely to have much effect on his level of risk.  Anyone who's likely to try to do anything to him in a fenced-in backyard (or abduct him from such a yard) isn't going to be put off by the fact that he's in clothes.  It's the lack of supervision that matters here, and that's an entirely different discussion.

Virg

Absolutely agree with Virg. Predators target children because they're children. A naked child isn't more prone to being snatched than a woman in a short skirt is more prone to being raped.

Depending on the relationship with the neighbours, I really would drop the faux concern and simply ask them to stop because it's making you  and especially your DH uncomfortable. I think if I were your neighbout, I would be more sympathetic to a man being bothered about the proximity of a naked child.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: penelope2017 on August 06, 2010, 04:43:26 AM
I would probably file a police complaint.  Myself and my guests should not have to subjected to a child's nudity just because the parents are OK with it.  I also don't think I should have to think up a clever ruse such as faux concern that the child get sunburned or bit as a basis for asking the parents to please clothe their child.  It's just not cool with me and I think the parents are entitled for foisting this situation off on their neighbors.

If the parents want to let their kids do this then they need to install a privacy fence.

I think that's a huge overreaction considering that the OP hasn't even tried talking to the parents yet. If she talks to the parents and they don't care or do nothing, then perhaps contact the police non-emergency line and ask for options, but talking to the parents should be the first step. Chances are, they don't even know it bothers her.

Agreed. And not sure about how busy the police are in the OP's neighborhood, but most likely the above is what they'd say in response to a call.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LTrew on August 06, 2010, 06:28:05 AM
You could always look into fence slats, they're removable but will block your line of sight and would make it more difficult to shake the fence.
I would find it annoying to have to pay out money to solve a problem that could be taken care of by some underpants though, and would talk to the neighbours first.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on August 06, 2010, 06:31:07 AM
Shade cloth is  Really cheep, pick a very dark green or Black, can you just string some up along the fence as a barrier. It's hard to see through that up agains a wire fence  8)
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: MommyPenguin on August 06, 2010, 07:47:00 AM
Chain link fences generally aren't that high.  While blocking the sight might help with the little boy shaking the fence and the dog getting upset, chances are that the OP can see right over the fence, so blocking it won't help her and her DH's view of the yard.

I think we've established from several other threads that some parents have still-un-potty-trained 4-year-olds, so even if the boy is at the upper end of the OP's estimated age range, it's quite possible that he's being potty trained.  Nonetheless, I think 3-5 is old enough that you can't really get away with letting them hang out naked unless you have a private yard, so it's the neighbors' responsibility to either shield their yard or find another method of potty-training (if that's what they're doing).  My daughter is 3, and she's definitely way too old to be naked in public, so I think that even if the boy is at the younger age of that range, he's too old.  3 might be a toddler according to some definitions, but in terms of body modesty, in this culture it's old enough to need clothes.  We're working on getting her to stop lifting up her dresses and such, which is an ongoing process (with lots of "or you have to change into something else"), but at least in that case the most she's showing is underwear/tights.

OP, as long as the boy is obviously not a young toddler (less steady on the feet, falls when he runs, speaks incomprehensibly or in baby babbles), it's reasonable to speak to the neighbors first, then *if* they push off your concerns or nothing changes, call the police non-emergency line and ask whether it's okay for him to hang out naked or whether there's anything they can do.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: EnoughAlready22 on August 06, 2010, 07:57:19 AM
Is this a cultural thing?  Where I live, this would not be ok.  The child should at least have on a diaper or underwear.  I've also never heard of letting your child run around naked while potty training.  My son is 5 and I didn't do that.  To me, part of potty training is having the child know when they need to go, pulling down their pants and going in the potty.  Maybe I'm missing something here.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Marleigh on August 06, 2010, 08:21:12 AM
Is this a cultural thing?  Where I live, this would not be ok.  The child should at least have on a diaper or underwear.  I've also never heard of letting your child run around naked while potty training.  My son is 5 and I didn't do that.  To me, part of potty training is having the child know when they need to go, pulling down their pants and going in the potty.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

I'm with ya, running around naked in the yard and "going" wherever you want doesn't sound like a logical potty training method at all.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: magiccat26 on August 06, 2010, 08:24:49 AM
Is this a cultural thing?  Where I live, this would not be ok.  The child should at least have on a diaper or underwear.  I've also never heard of letting your child run around naked while potty training.  My son is 5 and I didn't do that.  To me, part of potty training is having the child know when they need to go, pulling down their pants and going in the potty.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

I'm with ya, running around naked in the yard and "going" wherever you want doesn't sound like a logical potty training method at all.

I forget the name of the method, but there is a "free range" potty training method that involves leaving your child naked.  Not one I chose, but I remember reading about it somewhere....
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Marleigh on August 06, 2010, 08:25:50 AM
Chain link fences generally aren't that high.  While blocking the sight might help with the little boy shaking the fence and the dog getting upset, chances are that the OP can see right over the fence, so blocking it won't help her and her DH's view of the yard.

I think we've established from several other threads that some parents have still-un-potty-trained 4-year-olds, so even if the boy is at the upper end of the OP's estimated age range, it's quite possible that he's being potty trained.  Nonetheless, I think 3-5 is old enough that you can't really get away with letting them hang out naked unless you have a private yard, so it's the neighbors' responsibility to either shield their yard or find another method of potty-training (if that's what they're doing).  My daughter is 3, and she's definitely way too old to be naked in public, so I think that even if the boy is at the younger age of that range, he's too old.  3 might be a toddler according to some definitions, but in terms of body modesty, in this culture it's old enough to need clothes.  We're working on getting her to stop lifting up her dresses and such, which is an ongoing process (with lots of "or you have to change into something else"), but at least in that case the most she's showing is underwear/tights.

OP, as long as the boy is obviously not a young toddler (less steady on the feet, falls when he runs, speaks incomprehensibly or in baby babbles), it's reasonable to speak to the neighbors first, then *if* they push off your concerns or nothing changes, call the police non-emergency line and ask whether it's okay for him to hang out naked or whether there's anything they can do.

This also highlights my discomfort with this situation.  I have several little nieces and nephews, and actually, by age 2, they have all displayed signs of modesty.  If they're walking around their home half-clothed and a stranger walks in, they'll run and hide, or they'll get upset if someone tries to take a picture of them in just a diaper, etc.  I know not all kids are the same, and we don't know the exact age of the child in the OP, but it still just seems inappropriate to me.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: marcel on August 06, 2010, 08:43:25 AM
Is this a cultural thing?  Where I live, this would not be ok.  The child should at least have on a diaper or underwear.  I've also never heard of letting your child run around naked while potty training.  My son is 5 and I didn't do that.  To me, part of potty training is having the child know when they need to go, pulling down their pants and going in the potty.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

I'm with ya, running around naked in the yard and "going" wherever you want doesn't sound like a logical potty training method at all.
I didn't see any going wherever in the OP.
I believe that potty training methods, where people don't use diapers are actually about teaching a child at an early age where and when  to go.
And the acceptability of going around naked, is definitely a cultural thing. Some countries are much more prudish in this respect then others. Where I live, I do not think that many people would think it was bad if parents let a 5 year old walk around naked on their own property.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Crystal on August 06, 2010, 09:36:38 AM
Disclaimer: I my country it is generally acceptable to let young children run naked in certain places such as beaches (in fact, it is acceptable for all ages to be naked in public in some contexts), so I don't have much experience with these kind of situations (we mostly tell someone to dress the kids to protect against nettles or something). I've also lurked around and this is my first post, and I hope I don't break any rules, if I do, I humbly apologise.

I would raise the dog issue and the supervision issue.

Basically, try to word it that their son's rattling of the fence provokes the dog, but not in an accusatory way (I've found some parents who really doesn't take well to criticisms towards their children). Word it that you're worried about barking complaints and that the dog usually don't bark, but that the fence rattling can set it off.

Then, you could add that you're worried about the lack of supervision, as even if the garden is a safe zone, a child can get into lots of trouble, and feral animals, and wild animals in general, can get in. Look up if there's snakes in your area and suggest that in order to protect against snake-bites, the child should at least wear shoes, same if there's poisonous amphibians and insects. In fact, if there's dangerous insects, you could suggest him being fully clothed to prevent bites.

Basically, something like, "Hello neighbour, I feel terrible to ask you this, but could you please keep your son from rattling the fence between our gardens. It provokes my dog's instincts to bark, and I'm worried about the noise. Also, I noticed your son running barefoot and I'm worried about snakes/splinters/insects/animals getting to him."

Hopefully they'll think it'll look too ridiculous to have him run around naked but with shoes on that they'll at least put a diaper or underpants on him.

If there's poisonous plants around, you could always raise that they need to be with him at all times in the garden, because he might get his hands on those plants and become sick.

But, if nothing else, raise the splinter issue. One summer I ran around barefoot and ended up with blood poisoning because of a splinter. The treatment isn't fun, and the capsules I had to take were so large that I point blank refused, and if there hadn't been a great chemist with a home-brewed salve around, I could have died, or lost my entire right leg, so definitely suggest shoes at the very least.

But if you want to, you could go blunt and tell them how it is. In your family, it isn't the norm to let children above a certain age go naked in public, and it hinders your enjoyment and upkeep of the garden.

Just don't make it too much about the son being naked, because then a very protective parent might go "Neighbour thinks waaay too much about my son's state of dress" and well, it snowballs from there. Make it about norms and the practicality of the garden.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyPekoe on August 06, 2010, 09:59:00 AM
OP here.

1.  Sadly, talking about the barking would make any neighbor roll their eyes.  Duchess barks plenty but only for short bursts because we never leave her outside.  Oddly, she never barks at those neighbors.  OTOH, all the dogs around us bark incessantly.  For example, one dog a couple yards away barked, nonstop, for two hours Saturday night.  So the odds of noise complaints on Duchess when there are much worse offenders on our block are very minimal and we all know it.  They would probably just roll their eyes at that comment.

2.  DH thinks the kid is closer to 3 than 5.  The kid walks and runs just fine and talks in complete sentences.  I think he might be more like 4 although we are bad at that stuff.

3.  These fences are only 4-feet high and our yards are fairly narrow.  Even with privacy slats, I could see right over it.  Plus we have a pretty obsessive HOA, I don't know if those would work under it.

4.  I have no relationship with these neighbors, DH and I keep to ourselves. 

I think if they do it again (it seems to have trailed off) I will just tell them that the naked child makes DH and I uncomfortable and I would really, really, really appreciate it if they could put underpants on him.  If they come back with a potty training excuse, I will have to understand (I guess) but how long does it take to potty train?  This has been over months. 
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: dragonflies on August 06, 2010, 10:00:02 AM
I live in a suburb of Houston and most homes in a subdivision have wood privacy fences.  Even with the privacy fence, I can still see into yards.  I have two year old DD, who runs around naked and in a diaper inside our house with our shades drawn.  I wouldn't let her go outside w/o clothes.

As a child, we didn't have any neighbors and my mom would let us go au natural in the back yard.  I can understand the OP's uncomfortableness.  I am not comfortable when my own nephew who is 4 runs around naked in his parent's house.  His mom is ok with so I figured it must be my problem not theirs.  He does undress very often.
 
I would approach it more as your child is shaking the fence and I wouldn't want your child to get hurt.  
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Virg on August 06, 2010, 10:26:55 AM
Caligrl wrote:

"I'm with ya, running around naked in the yard and "going" wherever you want doesn't sound like a logical potty training method at all."

The idea isn't to allow the child to go anywhere.  The nudity is so that they don't have to shed clothing to get on the potty in time.  It cuts down on accidents because they got to the toilet but couldn't get undressed quickly enough.

Virg
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: evely28 on August 06, 2010, 10:51:42 AM
My daughter would take her swimsuit off when it got wet. She couldn't stand wet clothing. This can really help with potty training.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Midnight Kitty on August 06, 2010, 11:30:55 AM
I have 2 short stories about children going naked in the yard.

The 5 year old boy I babysat 25 years ago:  We walked in a muddy area, so I had him take off his shoes, go barefoot in the mud, then dry & wipe our feet off before putting our shoes back on.  His mother told me she found him rolling naked on the lawn (behind an 8 foot privacy fence).  He wanted to play in the mud, so he took all his clothes off, folded them neatly, and got totally muddy.  When she found him, he was drying and wiping his body off before getting dressed.  No one outside the yard could see him, but I thought it was an adorable anecdote. ;D

Then there's our calabash niece, born on DH's 49th birthday, so we call her his birthday niece and they have a special bond.  Up until she was 5 years old, she hated wearing clothes.  Her mother would put clothes on her, but it was a struggle, sometimes more of a fight than a mother of 4 could summon up, so she went naked.  Her parents didn't like it, they tried to keep her out of the public eye, but she would scream and cry and tear her clothes off, then run out the door.

She grew out of it a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: DoubleTrouble on August 06, 2010, 12:07:47 PM
<snip>

Then there's our calabash niece, born on DH's 49th birthday, so we call her his birthday niece and they have a special bond.  Up until she was 5 years old, she hated wearing clothes.  Her mother would put clothes on her, but it was a struggle, sometimes more of a fight than a mother of 4 could summon up, so she went naked.  Her parents didn't like it, they tried to keep her out of the public eye, but she would scream and cry and tear her clothes off, then run out the door.

She grew out of it a couple years ago.

My former boss had a 5 year old who hated to wear clothes. She would strip down to nekkid status as soon as she got through the door of their house. Getting clothes on her was a daily struggle.

Boss did try to enforce underwear in the yard but this was a strong willed kid who was also super-smart (I met her a few times, boss wasn't kidding!). The only way they broke her of it was she wanted to go to school nekkid one day in the middle of winter. Boss said no, you at least have to put on underwear & shoes (boss had had enough!).

Took about two seconds of the kid being out in the cold and she decided that wearing warm clothes was much nicer ;D Don't worry boss would have enforced the "wearing clothes for school" rule but figured that if the kid understand why she had to wear clothes, the process would go much smoother. And the kid didn't put up a fuss after that. But that incident did happen in their driveway if I remember correctly.

In January.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Danismom on August 06, 2010, 12:32:04 PM
I would probably call CPS for guidance.  I've had to do this before when I wasn't sure if it should be a reported claim or should go to some other agency.  The person taking the report can help you figure out what the proper authority to make the report with would be.  I would be worried about pedophiles.  Not so much because they will do something physically to that child but because the parents are putting the child "on display" by letting him run around naked in full view of the streets and all houses on the block.  Child p*rnography is a huge thing and my understanding is that many pictures are simply naked children not doing anything sexual at all.  Anyone could be taking pictures of this child and posting them on those sites.  That would be my concern.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Violet Tulip on August 06, 2010, 02:53:10 PM
OP, you said that normally your dog likes the little boy, correct? Have you ever noticed how he reacts when she barks at him? Maybe it would work if you said something like "Duchess doesn't recognize her friend without his clothes and it scares her. We don't want her to be scared, so please tell your son that he can't come to the fence to talk to the dog when he is naked" Would it be easier to talk about if the focus was on not wanted the dog to be scared, rather than nakedness? Also, if the little boy is upset that the normally friendly dog is barking at him, his comfort could be brought up as well.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: noexitwounds on August 08, 2010, 11:50:06 AM
I would call childrens services.  Neither a 3 yo or a 5 yo should have enough sexual knowledge to be intentionally gyrating naked in front of a neighbor.  Sexual knowledge that is too advanced for a child's age can be a symptom of abuse.  OP, I think the creepy feeling this gives you could be an intuition.

Totally not true. Many children instinctively touch their privates and/or rub them against things at the toddler stage because it feels good. It's a completely normal thing for the age development.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: LadyClaire on August 09, 2010, 07:09:18 AM
Sort of related, in a way...but many, many years ago, when my parents were first married and bought their first house, the next door neighbor kept turkeys in his yard. My mother had two dogs, and there was only a chain link fence between the yards.

The turkeys liked to go up to the fence and try to peck at the dogs through the fence, which of course greatly upset the dogs. The turkeys would also stand against the fence and cluck/gobble at the dogs, which also upset them.

One day the dogs got fed up..and my mother went outside to see that both dogs, which were male, had lifted their legs and were peeing all over the turkeys through the fence..who were just stupidly standing there, gobbling at them as they got peed on.

I'm guessing if a child had been antagonizing the dogs the end result would've been the same.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: MommyPenguin on August 09, 2010, 08:17:16 PM
I agree with the others that the gyrating is probably nothing.  Little kids do things with abandon, and some of their gestures can often seem adult in a way.  Like "dancing" by moving their hips, or the way they pull against a fence, or things like that.  And while some kids don't really notice their privates, other kids are intrigued by what's hidden by their diaper.  And some kids are allowed to watch music videos that show people dancing and will pick up movements that look very sexual on a child, even if the music video isn't really all that nasty.  So I don't think the fact that the kid is naked or that he's gyrating/dancing/shaking the fence necessarily warrants the consideration that he's sexually precocious and perhaps being abused.

And I think part of the naked potty training is not just that it's easier for them to get to the potty and not have to take off clothes, but also that most kids dislike the feel of urine/stool on their bodies, and that it makes it easier for them to tell when it's coming--they feel a certain feeling, that feeling increases, then they feel a new sensation and look there's something coming out!  They learn to recognize the first feeling as "I need to go" and that it leads to urination/a bowel movement.  However, I think most of that process should be over within a few days, maybe a few weeks at most.  By that point, they've gotten what they can from being naked.  And as for learning to take off clothes, well, they should be dressed simply with clothes they can manage themselves, but they should be learning how to remove their clothes, it's part of the process.  And if the kid is at least 3, really, he should be able to get what he can from the "naked potty training" and be able to handle clothes within a few weeks at most.  If that's really what he was naked for, he's ready to move on.  I think it's safe to say something to the parents.  I wouldn't potty-train my kid that way, but I've heard of people who do.  I really think that it should be contained to one weekend or so, and done with kids who are at the younger end of the potty-training scale.  By the time your kid is 4, maybe even 3, nobody really wants to see them naked.  Find another way to train them.
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: TootsNYC on August 09, 2010, 10:33:50 PM

If it really is the nudity that bothers the dog could go with something along the lines that the dog could get to the sensitive parts while the child is nude? Especially since it's a chain link fence, sensitive parts could be snapped at quite easily. Just a thought.

I was thinking the exact same thing but I couldn't think of a way to put it as delicately as you did. 

My goodness, don't do that--they'll decide the dog is really dangerous or something.

But I think it's fair to explain that the dog is bothered by the unexpected nudity or his little friend (you just want to tell this in a way that makes it clear you aren't projecting your own biases).

Make it be about promoting the friendship between the boy and the dog, and about the dog being comfortable. You might even able to make the appeal directly to the little boy when the dog is barking. I know that my kids responded REALLY well to the idea that they could scare or startle a dog, and so they are hyper vigilant about not running when dogs are on the same sidewalk as them, and approaching dogs only after getting permission from owner AND dog.

Because dogs deserve to have humans treat them well, and they deserve to be comfortable.
And the you can say quietly to the mom, "Actually, I'd be a lot more comfortable if he'd wear underpants at least, too!"
Title: Re: Naked children in the yard
Post by: Suze on August 10, 2010, 04:37:09 PM
of course there is always the thery that the child went into the back yard WITH clothes ON

just didn't stay that way....