Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => "Why would I want to do that?" => Topic started by: Really? on August 28, 2010, 11:29:39 PM

Title: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on August 28, 2010, 11:29:39 PM
Hi

Don't even know where to start I'm still in shock.

BG - I have two roomies, this concerns "RJ" :P, other roomie doesn't play into this situation. We have had problems in the past getting along, simply because of life style choices he has that I don't agree with. Drugs and alcohol plus smokes. RJ and I have a long history which includes the friends to BF/GF living together to roomies. Roomies for about 2 years now. Plus he's always complaining how he has no money and I have problems with levels of disrespect he shows others. Mostly we just live in the same house and run into each other a couple times a week. Also he grew up with rich parents and still hasn't taken the silver spoon out of his mouth AND plays the victim very well. He is supposed to move out in about 6 weeks. end bg.

RJ has been having problems at work and problems with money, with life. I run the household (that's never been in question with either roomie). He got sent home a month ago from work for being drunk. (His work can't prove he was drunk, but can that he smelled recked of alcohol). Last Saturday for some reason he came home without his car. He did call the house, but neither other roomie or I heard the phone ring (most hand sets here are not working, we need new phones). Now he's mad cause he thinks I ignored the phone call on purpose.

He started back to work last Sunday and was going to finish at noon, come home and then drive my mom and I to the airport using her car He was then to detail/clean her car while we were away. It was a paying gig for him, and he does detailing very well.

Well he went to work, came home and popped open some beer. He had 3 and was only home for 30 mins. I got mad and told him to never mind he wasn't driving my mom's car. And how I felf about him drinking especially when he had made a committement to my mom and I. He just did the yeah well I'm disappointed with you...

Anyways I come home and mom's car is detailed. She really likes the job he did, plus she can prove he didn't use her car in place of his (I made her take the mileage on her car before we left). That was last night. Tonight I run into him and stted that my mom loved teh car and since we got home really laste she'd be out on Tuesday to pay him. He then states that the price is "$10.00" more than was agreed to because he had to by some extra stuff to buy something for the car that he didn't have. He also wanted me to even it out with my mom as her payment will just go towards rend, which comes to me.

I am so totally pissed off that I just said nothing. yes its onlly $10 more but the fact taht the price shoud include all treatments.
I really want to leave this between him and my mom, but then again want to sheild my mom from his BS (although she is very aware of what he's like, even sometimes when he shows good quality's). I am leaning towards just sucking it up, having the difference paid by me, but I do want to say something to him.

so what do I say and do I let my mom know what's going on. I think I just need someone else to let me know what wording to use because "up yours" and get out now (not 6 weeks) is what I want to say. 

Feed back would be great...Onlyme
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: katycoo on August 29, 2010, 01:42:49 AM
Honestly, for $10 I'd pay him just to make the issue go away.

My priority would be keeping the peace for the next 6 weeks.  I might drop a line along the lines of "next time there's going to be an unexpected increase, we'd appreciate a call in advance of incurring the charge" or something.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Baxter on August 29, 2010, 04:33:52 AM
Honestly, for $10 I'd pay him just to make the issue go away.

My priority would be keeping the peace for the next 6 weeks.  I might drop a line along the lines of "next time there's going to be an unexpected increase, we'd appreciate a call in advance of incurring the charge" or something.

Big POD

You only have to get through the next 6 weeks - say it like a mantra "only 6 weeks to go, only 6 weeks to go".
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: shhh its me on August 29, 2010, 09:01:25 AM
  Only considering the principle of it depending on what extras he bought he may be entitled to the $10.  IF I agree to mow your lawn and that you will provide the mower if the mower needs gas I would charge you for the gas.  If you agreed to supply the materials and he reasonably need a different one/one more then you provided  then I think he's entitled to the $10.  If you think he's lying that is a different story.

Considering the whole situation even if I though he didn't deserve it . I'd just give him the $10 , you wont have to deal with him in 6 weeks it's not worth arguing about.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on August 29, 2010, 10:04:37 PM
Hi MM

Big POD

You only have to get through the next 6 weeks - say it like a mantra "only 6 weeks to go, only 6 weeks to go". 

This brought a smile to my face as all I could think was "so do I have to say it to myself or out loud so he can here".  ;D

Thanks all, OM
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on August 30, 2010, 09:20:16 AM
I agree with the PP's -he might actually be entitled to that $10 depending on what it was for.

HOWEVER- being too drunk to follow through on obligations? Id be ticked at that part. 
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Calypso on October 22, 2010, 08:55:31 PM
Any update---did RJ leave as scheduled?
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on October 24, 2010, 12:13:50 AM
Hi Calypso,

Funny I started reading this post (forgetting that I posted it, and was thinking, wow someone else going thru the same thing). My d'OH moment of the day.

***Update, where to start. ..Hmm, no he's still here.

-as for the $10.00, I ended up telling my mom about the situation and she said he should have told her cause the price was set with her. She gave me the full price (including extra $10.00) and made me promise to give him the money and not just keep it cause he owed me.
-he's still here and we've had a couple of conversations. My side was "you saying you don't have money means squat, you pay on time or specifically work out a payment plan". Of course it was me that had to bring this up.
-another conversation was me asking "when in Oct" (I was looking for a rough time) and imaging his surprise (yes I'm being sarcastic) when he goes "but I haven't found a place". My polite response was "ok end of October, NP. Was just looking for a time line).

Well the end of Oct is a week away and I haven't seen him pack anything. But he there's still a week. I don't think he's serious about moving or finding a place and always thinks I won't say "get out". Unfortunately I've already told him get out and its no longer my problems to make sure he gets the point. I plan to change the locks on October 31 just before I go to bed (and after the second roomy gets home).

I have friend visiting in a couple of weeks, so he's got no choice.
Onlyme
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: LEMon on October 25, 2010, 08:20:01 PM
Does he really understand that the end of Oct. is a firm deadline?  Your update used the word 'timeline' which somehow in my mind is more indefinite.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: artk2002 on October 29, 2010, 01:40:50 PM
I would be reminding him every day: "I expect you out of here by 10/31."  "You will be gone by 10/31."  "You cannot live here anymore."  This is not time to be sitting back and waiting for him to take action.  Then, figure out what your plan is when he's there after 10/31.  It needs to be a positive plan that gets him out of the place, not one that includes any kind of extension.  What will you do when he's still there and your friend arrives?
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Namárië on October 29, 2010, 01:57:22 PM
I hope he is packing up now!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on October 29, 2010, 02:56:57 PM
Hi All,

yes I hope he's packing also, although I haven't seen anything happening.

***Artk2002, As for telling him every day that I expect him to be out, that's not happening. The dynamics of the "relationship" is that I got sick of repeating myself long ago. I'm done. Like 2 years, so things are discussed once and that's it. However I had this type of conversation with him in early Sept where I told him once again, if he's having problems with something, HE NEEDS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND DISCUSS HIS PROBLEMS. He has been told several times, I"m not a mind reader but am willing to work stuff out if he needs help. I am beyond helping now.

The locks are being changed on Sunday and I'm not saying anything. But this way I don't have to ask for the key back. And yes there probably will be him acting all insulted, but from my point of view, well like I said, I'm done.

Onlyme
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: blue2000 on October 29, 2010, 05:44:46 PM
Just wondering... if his stuff is still in the house when you change the locks, where are you planning to put it? Is there a garage you can put it in?
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on October 30, 2010, 09:49:07 PM
Hi

:) He'll have to call me and communicate.

No seriously, the law here is that if he's been given notice and doesn't get out, then he has a week to get his stuff out. But he has to have the Police with him and they've got to stay there with him. (And of course I have to be there to open the door).

Actually he said something today and it wasn't about not moving out, it was that he was going on vacation in December. And that he was just letting me know, as he "didn't know if he was going to be in the house" but was letting me know because of the dogs. (He actually helps look after the dogs during the day. He works evenings and weekends"). And of course when I said I thought he was out tomorrow all I got was a "but that was just a guide line". Sigh.

So I told him that I had plans for the room and he needed to be out. But that I would give him some more time, I'm just not sure how much I can take. I seem so capable to others, but its only after I have time to think about things that I see what I really want to say. So tomorrow he'll get given to the end of November.

Onlyme, yes I know I'm a wimp.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on October 30, 2010, 09:52:20 PM
why would you give him until the end of november? Then you've only proven him right that end of Oct was "only a guideline."

It doesnt make any sense to me - can you clarify?
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: gramma dishes on October 30, 2010, 10:00:59 PM
So tomorrow he'll get given to the end of November.


NO!

"No, I will give you five days to get your stuff out.  If it isn't out by then, I'll dispose of it myself."

Then in five days exactly, get those locks changed!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Hmmmmm on October 31, 2010, 06:45:03 AM
Onlyme,
I think giving him another month only enforces his stance that these dates are guidelines.  It is fine to say it only once, but you need be more definitive then "I'll give you some more time."

If you've already told him that he has till end of November, then I think you are stuck with that timeline.  If you haven't, then I think you need to give him a specific date he needs to be out.  And honestly, I think another month is too long, especially since he has mentioned a December vacation.  I can easily see end of November coming and him saying "well, I won't be here in December so can I just leave my stuff here until I get back." type scenarion. 
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Kaymyth on October 31, 2010, 02:47:28 PM
Onlyme,
I think giving him another month only enforces his stance that these dates are guidelines.  It is fine to say it only once, but you need be more definitive then "I'll give you some more time."

If you've already told him that he has till end of November, then I think you are stuck with that timeline.  If you haven't, then I think you need to give him a specific date he needs to be out.  And honestly, I think another month is too long, especially since he has mentioned a December vacation.  I can easily see end of November coming and him saying "well, I won't be here in December so can I just leave my stuff here until I get back." type scenarion. 

Poddy McPodderson from the land of Podonia!

Tell him, "You have until Friday; that is your extra time.  On Saturday morning I have an appointment to get the locks changed."  End of conversation.  And then tomorrow, call the locksmith and make the appointment.  Preferably with Unwanted Roommate in listening distance.

*Evil!myth quietly sings the Twisted Christmas carol, "We Wish You Weren't Living With Us"*
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: blue2000 on October 31, 2010, 05:40:48 PM
LOL!

We wish you a scary Halloween,
We wish you a good Thanksgiving,
We wish you a Merry Christmas,
But just not with us!!

Good boxes we bring,
For packing your things,
We wish you a Merry Christmas,
But just not with us!!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: artk2002 on October 31, 2010, 07:19:34 PM
why would you give him until the end of november? Then you've only proven him right that end of Oct was "only a guideline."

It doesnt make any sense to me - can you clarify?

I agree.  Set a deadline and stick with it.  Because come November 30, he'll be saying "but it was just a guideline."
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Kaymyth on October 31, 2010, 07:27:35 PM
LOL!

We wish you a scary Halloween,
We wish you a good Thanksgiving,
We wish you a Merry Christmas,
But just not with us!!

Good boxes we bring,
For packing your things,
We wish you a Merry Christmas,
But just not with us!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhm0zRykHCY

 ;D
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: blue2000 on October 31, 2010, 08:43:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhm0zRykHCY

 ;D

(http://bestsmileys.com/lol/1.gif)
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: boxy on October 31, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
It might be in the best interest of everyone involved to give him notice in writing, i.e., this is official notice that you must vacate in the next 30 days on such-and-such a date. 

Should this end up in court you will have the paper trail documenting that you followed the law.  You cannot simply lock him out - especially since you had such a vague and inconsistent verbal notice.  Typically judges favor tenants and that's a costly road if this guy has any material possessions of value.  It might be to your advantage to check with a lawyer on the best way to cover yourself from future litigation.

Do the right thing, use your brain and think logically. 
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Baxter on November 01, 2010, 06:29:46 AM
It might be in the best interest of everyone involved to give him notice in writing, i.e., this is official notice that you must vacate in the next 30 days on such-and-such a date. 

Should this end up in court you will have the paper trail documenting that you followed the law.  You cannot simply lock him out - especially since you had such a vague and inconsistent verbal notice.  Typically judges favor tenants and that's a costly road if this guy has any material possessions of value.  It might be to your advantage to check with a lawyer on the best way to cover yourself from future litigation.

Do the right thing, use your brain and think logically. 

I totally agree with putting it in writing & staying firm (thats the critical bit)

Boxy - I don't know if you meant that or not, but that last line comes across as a bit rude & condescending.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)*UPdate #24
Post by: Really? on November 17, 2010, 08:44:16 PM
Hi

So I finally put something in writing once he refused to move out, because he hasn't been given enough time. I have found out some legal stuff (I'll post after this is over), but basically he's screwed and doesn't realize it.

Now all I have to do is make up my mind if he's out this weekend or at the end of November. But thanks to all who have written so far, cause I usually get good advice from this board. My friend wonder why I am so calm and good about being polite, and well its the good adviced i read here.

Thanks again, and I'll see about posting when this is over.
Onlyme.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: MrsVandy on November 18, 2010, 07:30:11 PM
I would give him till the end of Nov. Even though he is a pain to be around. This way you have given him ample notice and if he can get out then its his problem.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: boxy on November 23, 2010, 05:41:21 PM
Quote
Boxy - I don't know if you meant that or not, but that last line comes across as a bit rude & condescending.
Ack, that's the problem with posts, there's no vocal inflection and, as in this case, what I meant in my head didn't come across very well on screen.  The words "do the right thing, use your brain and think logically" should be read in tone of helpfulness.  Kind of like wait, stop for a sec and gather your thoughts, you can do this, it's going to be okay, just don't rush in too soon.

My sincere apology for it coming across wrong. 
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Nellop on November 27, 2010, 01:40:51 PM
I'm just bumping this because it's nearly the end of the month and I am very keen to hear what's happened!

I'm hoping that in a few days the housemate from hell is gone!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on November 27, 2010, 10:20:30 PM
Hi Nellop (and all),

He's out in 4 days and has signed a form stating that.

A couple of weeks ago he was preening about how he could just move out when he decided, even though he had given notice. I got him to agree to Dec 1 to move out and then pointed out where he has no protection under Landlord /Tenant agreement. He was still trying to be smug until I pointed out that he wasn't cover, that I had the exceptions in our area to the Landlord tenant acts and that I didn't have to bring it up on the internet for him to see. I handed him the printed legislation with the exceptions to the act highlighted. His face kind of feel and he's been trying to be nice now.

He was trying to agrue with the legislation and how it applied and I pointed out that 1) I knew about the law because of personal circumstances, not because I deal with lawyers all day at work (they are my clients) 2) just to make sure I was understanding what the legislation was I talked to a lawyer, I talked to the Landlord/Tenant board and I called the local police and all verified my understanding.

I am personally still pissed that I have to go thru this and struggling at time to let it go. I am getting better, but I know that come Wednesday I will be much better.

thanks for asking, Onlyme
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Nellop on November 28, 2010, 11:54:27 AM
Yay!

Sounds like he's finally realised that he can't do whatever he wants :D

Great news Onlyme! Really chuffed that it's all worked out for you.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: blue2000 on November 28, 2010, 02:59:20 PM
Wow.

So he wasn't even going to pretend to keep his end of the bargain? What a guy! I'm glad to hear you will be rid of him soon!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long) **final update pg 3
Post by: Really? on December 01, 2010, 06:12:29 PM
Hi all,

woo hoo he's gone. I won't go into the gory details but he was having trouble leaving and ended up getting thrown out with his stuff.

Onlyme
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Nellop on December 01, 2010, 07:47:33 PM
Awesome :D

So so pleased he's gone.
Enjoy your freedom!

Also - I would totally love some gory details!
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: gramma dishes on December 01, 2010, 07:48:12 PM
Awesome :D

So so pleased he's gone.
Enjoy your freedom!

Also - I would totally love some gory details!

Me too.  How did you accomplish it?  We need to know!!!   ;D
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Baxter on December 01, 2010, 09:46:22 PM
Good for you!  Its over, now you can enjoy your house again.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long) **final update pg 3
Post by: Minmom3 on December 02, 2010, 12:45:17 AM
Hi all,

woo hoo he's gone. I won't go into the gory details but he was having trouble leaving and ended up getting thrown out with his stuff.

Onlyme

Aw, come on, you know we LOVE gory details....   ;D  We're bad that way!

I'm glad he's gone and you can have peace in your home....  Makes home the sanctuary it's supposed to BE.
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on December 04, 2010, 03:22:32 PM
Hi All,

OK so I'll answer some of the questions, especially since he's gone. And I'm still celebrating.

Brief description of what happened.
1) June he talked about moving out and I asked for notice. More discussions ensued.
2) August he mentioned October should be a good month to move out, so he was giving me the notice I asked for. But there was no specific date in Oct mentioned,
3) First week in Sept I asked for specific as to beginning, mid or end of month. His response was that he hadn't even starting looking, so I said end of October is fine, I was just looking for a time line.
3) Oct 30 came and I saw no signs of moving, but he told me that he'd be on vacation end of Dec. Didn't know if he'd be living in the house but wanted me to know so that I'd be able to work around the dogs. (He used to be home during the day to look after them, let them out to backyard, etc..) I stated he was supposed to be out tomorrow and he looked at me saying "end of October was only a guideline". He was advised no it wasn't but I would give him more time. But that he needs to communicate with me.
4) Oct 31 I had to ask for rent late in the evening, only to be told he didn't have any checks and would have to go to the bank the next day (Monday). I asked for post dated cheque for Nov since I'm sick of rent being late. He said fine.
5) He called when I was home from work stating there was a problem at the bank and couldn't give me  money until Wed. Wed came he gave cash and stated he didn't have the money to buy new cheques so wasn't giving me a postdated check
6) Nov 3, I finally got rent and told him he needed to find a place for end of November.
7) He started saying that he wasn’t moving out, that the landlord tenant act protected him and that he’d move out when he felt like it. He had the law behind him. He was being a real Female Dog about it.
I pointed out he gave notice and he said “but I can take it back anytime”. If he was leaving the house then I’d better evict him and go to the landlord tenant board and apply to Residential Tenacy Act (RTA), put out money, etc... go talk to my lawyer friends..And btw if he was moving out he wasn’t paying rent because he’d need to give first and last at a new place. So now he’s threatening me how he’s got the law on his side, blah, blah, blah!.

So I have a friend who just went thru this same situation and the RTA didn’t cover her roommate, so it doesn’t cover him either. My Lawyer said to play nice, but through him out if he doesn’t agree to get out when I want. Anyways I got a form from the RTA site showing that we both agree on a date to him moving out and he agreed to Dec. Then as he was getting cocky about staying and how he could just do what he wants and there’s nothing I can do about it.

I pointed out that the RTA doesn’t cover him, and handed him the print out of the section of RTA, with the exception showing why it doesn’t cover him. Suffice to say his face fell, then he tried to tell me that he read it as not applying in our situation. So I pointed out he was incorrect and just to make sure I had the correct understanding I spoke with a lawyer, I spoke with the RTA people and I spoke with the local Police station and got the same answer from all three. He had no protection, I could throw him out right there and if he didn’t leave the police could be called.

Then for the last 3 days here he stomped around, in a bad mood but its his own fault. Anytime he asked why I finally put my foot down, you know he was a nice guy..I simply stated that his problems always became my problems and I was tired of it.

Now the clincher is that he called the night he was out stating the had used a couple of my plastic containers to move since he needed boxes and wanted to bring them back. Plus he forgot his work shoes here (steel toed shoes) and wanted to do an exchange next time he’s in town (Saturday)>> I said fine just drop by the house. He didn’t drop by today, so the shoes are going in the garbage and I’ll by another plastic container when I need it.

As for exception to the RTA, when tenant and landlord have a shared kitchen and/or bathroom, the RTA doesn’t apply. Not a separate unit to live in (aka apartment). Woo hoo! Love the law at times.

Sorry for the length, but I hope it answers your questions.
Only me
6)
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: AngelicGamer on December 04, 2010, 03:59:11 PM
Um, OnlyMe, I wouldn't just throw out his shoes unless you have something stated in writing from him.  Verbal agreement, as I've seen on Judge Judy, might have you paying for the shoes.

Plus, even though your guy has been a bacon fed knave, take the high road...but only by a week.  Are they taking up that much space?
Title: Re: Always a step behind, so it seems. (long)
Post by: Really? on December 04, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
Hi

Actually he showed up this afternoon and asked for them, plus he brought back the container.

As for taking the high road, throwing them away would have been. Seriously, it meant I wasn't being mean nor bothering him about anything.

Onlyme