Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Etiquette of the Rich and Famous => Topic started by: veryfluffy on January 16, 2011, 06:38:09 AM

Title: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: veryfluffy on January 16, 2011, 06:38:09 AM
According to the Sunday Telegraph gossip columnist, not only are Kate Middleton and William going to ask guests to donate to their favourite charities instead of giving them gifts, they are going to so so in the invitations:

 "When the invitations are issued, they will have some kind of instruction on how to make a donation to a charity chosen by the couple," says a senior royal aide. (Who is left anonymous!)

Can we believe this? Could this be true? Does being "royalty" make this acceptable? If it is true, will the fact that it was done by royalty make it etiquettely correct for others in future? Or could the gossip columnist be making this up?



Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 06:44:08 AM
Maybe "misinformed"?
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MissRose on January 16, 2011, 06:45:15 AM
I have no issues with celebs asking for charitable donations in lieu of gifts.

I am sure they will get plenty of gifts anyways, as not all people will make a donation. Being royal and famous doesn't exempt their families & friends from giving them wedding gifts.

Many celebs ask their fans to give to a cause or charity instead of giving gifts for Xmas, Birthday, or throwing things onstage at a concert.  Perhaps they think they have all what they need and don't need to fill their homes with items they may never use.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 06:51:08 AM
I have no issues with celebs asking for charitable donations in lieu of gifts.

I am sure they will get plenty of gifts anyways, as not all people will make a donation. Being royal and famous doesn't exempt their families & friends from giving them wedding gifts.

Many celebs ask their fans to give to a cause or charity instead of giving gifts for Xmas, Birthday, or throwing things onstage at a concert.  Perhaps they think they have all what they need and don't need to fill their homes with items they may never use.

I think the point is that it isn't suppposed to be in the invite, any more than the registry info is.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Lisbeth on January 16, 2011, 08:59:58 AM
I have no issues with celebs asking for charitable donations in lieu of gifts.

I am sure they will get plenty of gifts anyways, as not all people will make a donation. Being royal and famous doesn't exempt their families & friends from giving them wedding gifts.

Many celebs ask their fans to give to a cause or charity instead of giving gifts for Xmas, Birthday, or throwing things onstage at a concert.  Perhaps they think they have all what they need and don't need to fill their homes with items they may never use.

Being a celeb doesn't make this acceptable.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Shoo on January 16, 2011, 10:24:19 AM
I think William and Kate are in a pretty unique situation.  We're not talking about your average bride and groom here.  The sheer volume of gifts this couple can expect -- including from complete strangers -- is enormous.

In their situation, and only in their situation, I think making this pre-emptive strike makes sense.  It may not be etiquettely approved 99.99% of the time, but in this case, I think it's probably for the best.

Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Jan74 on January 16, 2011, 10:46:49 AM
Maybe they will just make a press release about it, but not actually put it in the invites. Which would be more effective against the perfect, uninvited strangers who might just wanna send a gift anyway.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Hushabye on January 16, 2011, 10:59:21 AM
I'd put a whole lot more credence in said report coming from someone other than a gossip columnist and a source other than an anonymous one.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Lisbeth on January 16, 2011, 11:19:07 AM
I think William and Kate are in a pretty unique situation.  We're not talking about your average bride and groom here.  The sheer volume of gifts this couple can expect -- including from complete strangers -- is enormous.

In their situation, and only in their situation, I think making this pre-emptive strike makes sense.  It may not be etiquettely approved 99.99% of the time, but in this case, I think it's probably for the best.

Hard to say.  There are many people in the world who could receive huge amounts of gifts that they don't know what to do with.  For some people, receiving one is one too many.

I actually think that royalty have even more of a need to practice good etiquette than the average person, just because they serve as role models and examples.  I think, unfortunately, that this could give people the idea that royalty doing this makes it acceptable for them to do so.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MadMadge43 on January 16, 2011, 11:26:52 AM
I think the "not asking for presents" is circular ettiquette logic and I'm ok with them doing what they want, as long as it's not outright asking for gifts.

I remember the massive amounts of gifts Diana and Charles recieved. I actually think it's a nice sign of the times how this generation doesn't see that as acceptable anymore.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MariaE on January 16, 2011, 11:51:53 AM
Can somebody in the UK confirm that it is bad etiquette there? The reason I ask is that in Denmark it is considered good etiquette to provide wishwist informations with the invitation.

That aside, like Shoo I would give them a pass.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: stargazer on January 16, 2011, 01:30:04 PM
I think the major problem I have with this is that it said they are asking for donations to a specific charity.  What if someone has a specific objection against that charity?  We have seen many times on this board why donating money to a charity in someone else's name is a bad idea.  If they said something like "In leui of gifts, we would like to request you make a donation to your favorite charity instead", it still doesn't sound like a great idea, but at least better.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MaggieB on January 16, 2011, 01:45:39 PM
I think that asking for donations to charity in lieu of gifts is fine.  It sounds like there will be a few choices listed, and I doubt any of them will be controversial.  But there's just no need to do it in the invitation.  Especially if you're William and Kate and every word out of your mouth is international news.

They will be asked so many times about wedding presents that it will be easy for them to spread the word in a polite way.  Including any mention of gifts in an invitation is just not polite.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 02:07:28 PM
I think that asking for donations to charity in lieu of gifts is fine.  It sounds like there will be a few choices listed, and I doubt any of them will be controversial.  But there's just no need to do it in the invitation.  Especially if you're William and Kate and every word out of your mouth is international news.

They will be asked so many times about wedding presents that it will be easy for them to spread the word in a polite way.  Including any mention of gifts in an invitation is just not polite.

I think it is hard to find a charity that nobody finds controversial.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Jan74 on January 16, 2011, 02:30:50 PM
But I doubt people who find the charities supported by royals controversial support the royalty in the first place.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 02:31:53 PM
But I doubt people who find the charities supported by royals controversial support the royalty in the first place.

Now that is probably true!
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MadMadge43 on January 16, 2011, 02:41:42 PM
Quote
I think it is hard to find a charity that nobody finds controversial.

Children's Burn Unit? Kind of hard o dislike that one  >:D
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 02:43:48 PM
Quote
I think it is hard to find a charity that nobody finds controversial.

Children's Burn Unit? Kind of hard o dislike that one  >:D

You could dislike the animal testing done to develope the treatments they use, the methods of fund raising, the allocation of funds... there are always things that people will question
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: araigne on January 16, 2011, 02:56:25 PM
Quote
I think it is hard to find a charity that nobody finds controversial.

Children's Burn Unit? Kind of hard o dislike that one  >:D

You could dislike the animal testing done to develope the treatments they use, the methods of fund raising, the allocation of funds... there are always things that people will question

Well, ya can't please all of the people all of the time... ;)
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 03:43:50 PM
I think that is one of the reasons that asking for charitable donations form wedding guest can be seen as particularly risky in the etiquette realm.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: veryfluffy on January 16, 2011, 05:11:09 PM
Here is the link to the whole item:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/royal-wedding/8261895/Royal-wedding-Prince-William-and-Kate-Middleton-choose-charity-gifts.html

Several charities are mentioned, specifically those of which William is a patron.

I just can't believe that the invitations going out to members of other European royal families, senior political figures, etc., are going to have that on the actual invitations.


Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Shoo on January 16, 2011, 05:15:37 PM
Yeah, I'm having a hard time imagining it, too.  I'm thinking The Queen will have something to say about it.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Sharnita on January 16, 2011, 05:49:12 PM
I think you could make it known which charities they support without overtly asking people to donate - something like "William will continue to spend time working wiht X foundation and supporting the blah blah blah.  Kate will be working closely with  the organization to save whatever..."
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: DangerMouth on January 16, 2011, 05:52:16 PM
So.. What's the etiquette of thank you's here?

If you've donated to a charity because someone requested it, do you tell them about, so they can thank you? Do you say nothing and leave them to wonder if you donated or cheaped out?
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: mechtilde on January 17, 2011, 09:16:04 AM
UK perspective here:
 As per strict etiquette:

Including registry information with the invitation is not done.
Asking for charitable donations instead of gifts is a bit dicey, but is (In my opinion) acceptable.
Putting the request in the invitation is the same as putting registry information in.

That said, in my own personal opinion, there is nothing wrong with requesting donations instead of gifts (and please remember that here the charity claims back the tax if the Giftaid scheme is used), and putting such a request in with the general information sent with the invitation is fine (although a registry wouldn't be)

Mind you, I have no problem with "No gifts" either.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Julia S on January 17, 2011, 11:05:13 AM
What mechtilde said.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: hyzenthlay on January 18, 2011, 11:25:34 AM
Well strict etiquette is that you don't talk about gifts because it assumes people will give you something.

I think that's clearly NOT an assumption for these two. If they don't act to nip this in the bud they will probably be saddled with loads of very high quality junk they neither need nor want. I'm sure every country in the world would send some kind of token gift, and who knows how much stuff they might get from the royal-adoring segment of the populace.

Now that's it's been press released, maybe they won't have to address it in the invites. But if they do I have no problem with that. I think 'No gifts please' is a perfectly legitimate request, and for a couple with this level of exposure I think 'No gifts except to charity' is a valid choice.

Anyone who can't tolerate any of their charities isn't obligated to give anything. So I don't see the problem there.

(I agree for the average couple simply not registering and releasing the charity request when asked is preferable. But I think a normal couple is probably expected to be able to talk to most of their guest list in person, or at most only one family member removed. Their guest list may be in the thousands, I know the Charles and Di wedding seemed massive. And word of mouth simply isn't realistic.)
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Aggiesque on January 18, 2011, 03:55:22 PM
Since the press already knows all of this, they won't need to bother with anything in the invitation  >:D
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: MadMadge43 on January 18, 2011, 04:11:41 PM
Quote
Since the press already knows all of this, they won't need to bother with anything in the invitation 


But that's assumming the head of Zimbabwe or other similar countries read those press articles.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Flora Louise on January 19, 2011, 05:12:23 PM
I would love to see the invitations to this wedding. I'm guessing they won't be married in the "style of the bride's parents?"  ;)

Since it is a state occasion, I think it would be intriguing to see the actual invitation. I imagine the Obama's will get one. I remember the Reagans did when Charles and Diana married.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: DangerMouth on January 19, 2011, 05:16:03 PM
I would love to see the invitations to this wedding. I'm guessing they won't be married in the "style of the bride's parents?"  ;)

Since it is a state occasion, I think it would be intriguing to see the actual invitation. I imagine the Obama's will get one. I remember the Reagans did when Charles and Diana married.

As the bride's parents are millionaires, I can't see that it'll be that far off from formal. 'Commoner' doesn't always mean 'common' ;D
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: still in va on January 19, 2011, 09:47:52 PM
Since it is a state occasion, I think it would be intriguing to see the actual invitation. I imagine the Obama's will get one. I remember the Reagans did when Charles and Diana married.
actually, i don't believe that this is to be a state occasion, as William is not heir to the throne.  it has already been announced that President Obama will not be invited, nor will many heads of state.  Charles was already heir to the throne when he married Diana, thus making it a state occasion.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Flora Louise on January 20, 2011, 12:49:52 PM
Thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Lauds on January 22, 2011, 02:13:26 AM
Quote
Since the press already knows all of this, they won't need to bother with anything in the invitation 


But that's assumming the head of Zimbabwe or other similar countries read those press articles.

I think I can safely say that the president of Zimbabwe will NOT be getting an invitation to the wedding!

What will probably happen is that the invites won't mention anything about presents, but royal aides will let people know about the charities. People meeting royalty get advice on how to behave, I can't imagine that the same wouldn't happen for a wedding. Actually though, many foreign heads of government will probably give something representative of their country, on behalf of the country.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: megswsu on January 23, 2011, 07:49:48 PM
I've read reports that Princess Diana and Charles received anywhere from 4,000-6,000 gifts!  :o So in light of that possibility happening w/Kate and William, I'd say they should get a pass for asking for donations to charity. Even if they put it in their invites. While it's easy to get rid of 1 gift, it's much harder to easily get rid of thousands!
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: kareng57 on January 23, 2011, 07:59:24 PM
I've read reports that Princess Diana and Charles received anywhere from 4,000-6,000 gifts!  :o So in light of that possibility happening w/Kate and William, I'd say they should get a pass for asking for donations to charity. Even if they put it in their invites. While it's easy to get rid of 1 gift, it's much harder to easily get rid of thousands!

I feel the same way.  Standard "wedding etiquette" doesn't really apply in a case like this.  Ordinarily of course it's inappropriate to suggest charitable donations in lieu of gifts - but most of us ordinary folks don't have thousands of people that we don't even know trying to send us wedding gifts. :)
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: veryfluffy on January 24, 2011, 06:00:18 AM
I've read reports that Princess Diana and Charles received anywhere from 4,000-6,000 gifts!  :o So in light of that possibility happening w/Kate and William, I'd say they should get a pass for asking for donations to charity. Even if they put it in their invites. While it's easy to get rid of 1 gift, it's much harder to easily get rid of thousands!

I feel the same way.  Standard "wedding etiquette" doesn't really apply in a case like this.  Ordinarily of course it's inappropriate to suggest charitable donations in lieu of gifts - but most of us ordinary folks don't have thousands of people that we don't even know trying to send us wedding gifts. :)

But those people aren't being invited to the wedding -- ie the random well-wishers. The issue is putting this on the actual wedding invitations. My view is that "royalty" have a particular obligation to act correctly, keeping in mind that in the UK, what is done "at court" would then become correct etiquette for everyone else.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Flora Louise on January 26, 2011, 11:39:49 AM
I wonder what Jenna Bush's invitations were like. Anyone know?
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: still in va on January 27, 2011, 05:47:11 PM
I wonder what Jenna Bush's invitations were like. Anyone know?

since Jenna Bush Hagar was a private citizen, i don't see that it makes any difference what her wedding invitations were like.  

probably like any standard wedding invitation, Father and Mother of the bride invite you to our daughter Jenna's wedding on May 10, 2008 at Prairie Chapel Ranch.  oh yeah, and the groom's name is Henry.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: Jan74 on January 27, 2011, 09:20:10 PM
I wonder what Jenna Bush's invitations were like. Anyone know?

since Jenna Bush Hagar was a private citizen, i don't see that it makes any difference what her wedding invitations were like.  

probably like any standard wedding invitation, Father and Mother of the bride invite you to our daughter Jenna's wedding on May 10, 2008 at Prairie Chapel Ranch.  oh yeah, and the groom's name is Henry.

OT but the alliteration in Henry Hagar is Marvel Comic worthy.  ;D
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: SamiHami on January 28, 2011, 01:16:33 PM
Weddings are not fundraisers, not even royal weddings.  As kind hearted as they are trying to be, directing people in how to spend their money is inappropriate, no matter how you look at it.

There is nothing wrong with them publicly stating that they support particular charities and hope that gift givers will take the hint, but that is just about all they can do and still be within the bounds of etiquette.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: still in va on January 28, 2011, 08:28:03 PM
Weddings are not fundraisers, not even royal weddings.  As kind hearted as they are trying to be, directing people in how to spend their money is inappropriate, no matter how you look at it.

There is nothing wrong with them publicly stating that they support particular charities and hope that gift givers will take the hint, but that is just about all they can do and still be within the bounds of etiquette.

i'm pretty sure that there are plenty of people in Buckingham Palace, Clarence House, and St. James Palace who know loads about protocol and will ensure that things are done politely.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: KenveeB on January 28, 2011, 08:58:36 PM
I don't necessarily read the quote as saying the charities will be directly printed on the invitations, just that the information will be provided when the invitations are issued.  I imagine for a wedding like this one, there will be a whole packet of information that wouldn't come with a typical invite. :)  I give them a pass unless I see an actual invitation.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: still in va on January 28, 2011, 09:34:26 PM
I don't necessarily read the quote as saying the charities will be directly printed on the invitations, just that the information will be provided when the invitations are issued.  I imagine for a wedding like this one, there will be a whole packet of information that wouldn't come with a typical invite. :)  I give them a pass unless I see an actual invitation.

Kenvee, exactly.  i'm sure that Prince William won't do anything to embarrass his grandmother.  it's not like he has to depend upon what Miss Manners says.  he's got loads of resources at his disposal.

i don't get the inclination to tear down Kate and William about something they haven't even done yet. 
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: DangerMouth on February 05, 2011, 05:47:44 PM
I don't necessarily read the quote as saying the charities will be directly printed on the invitations, just that the information will be provided when the invitations are issued.  I imagine for a wedding like this one, there will be a whole packet of information that wouldn't come with a typical invite. :)  I give them a pass unless I see an actual invitation.

I'd be pretty surpized if anyone on eHell actually sees an "actual invitation" (like, addressed to them, and not just from a blog ;D)
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: KenveeB on February 05, 2011, 07:38:58 PM
Hey, I'm expecting my invitation any day now!  But for the rest of you lowly folk, I guess a reproduction on a blog or something will suffice. ;)  I'm sure they'll be out there somewhere.
Title: Re: Kate and William to ask for charity donations - in invitations?!
Post by: DangerMouth on February 05, 2011, 07:45:08 PM
Hey, I'm expecting my invitation any day now!  But for the rest of you lowly folk, I guess a reproduction on a blog or something will suffice. ;)  I'm sure they'll be out there somewhere.

Ooo, I'm so J. ;D