Etiquette Hell

General Etiquette => Life...in general => Dating => Topic started by: Samgirl2 on February 20, 2011, 07:05:36 PM

Title: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 20, 2011, 07:05:36 PM
Hi guys, I need some help on how best to deal with a person I though was a good friend suddenyl behaving coldly and out of character and ignoring my attempts to mend things. Sorry it's long...

My best friend (spoke daily by email, met up regularly, confided in me, told me I was really special to her, she didn't know what she would do without me) seems to have completely changed personality since she got pregnant.

She and hubby kept it secret for 5 months by missing social events, not coming to church, missing a friend's birthday, blowing me off when I suggested coffee to catch up etc. We still chatted over email but she would never meet up and I noticed that I was making more of the effort in email too when it used to be 50/50. Friends asked after them and I checked quite a few times that they were ok or had anyone had offended them etc cos usually they are at everything. She said they were just really busy and doing renovations on their new house. I offered to help if they needed it, she said no, they were ok, they had family helping. Then it came out at a church social they finally came to, because she wasn't drinking and someone asked if she was pregnant, she said yes, 5 months along.

Everyone was stunned because they were never baby people and also they'd kept it secret for so long, but we guessed they just wanted to be sure it was ok. A few people, including me, said we couldn't believe they hadn't told us, but in a 'wow' way, not a mean way. Everyone congratulated them, hugged her, asked when it was due, all that kind of thing. We all thought that now the secret was out they would be back associating with us again, although obviously not as much as before now there was a baby on the way. However since then it's like she's pushed me out completely, Remember before this we talked everyday. I emailed the next day to say how pleased I was, it was so exciting, offered to go shopping with her, asked about her scan that morning, asked if they needed anything and also said I had vacation owing if she needed me to be around at all once the baby was born and her hubby went back to work. She said family would be helping, she hoped I was pleased for them and then changed the subject and asked how work was going.

I tried again the next day, suggesting we meet for a catch up, as it had been so long and now the secret was out she wouldn't have to hide it and I wouldn't put my foot in it by asking awkward questions, but she never replied and didn't contact me which is really out of character but I left it alone. The next two times I see her at church related stuff she said a vague 'hi' and ignored me pretty much. Because this is totally unlike her I sent her an email saying it seemed like something was wrong between us and apologising if I had done anything to hurt her, that I would never do that on purpose, was really sorry if I had and that I really valued our friendship, she meant a lot to me and if there was anything I could do to let me know. She replied 'thanks for your email' and then said she had not been replying to emails because she thought it was too much at work and she should have said something but she hoped I would notice, that she was really glad she had pregnant work friends and her sister to talk to and she wasn't talking to me about it because I didn't seem interested and this was a new exciting phase in their lives and to take care and maybe we could go for coffee in a few weeks. I was really hurt.

I didn't try to contact her for the next week or so because I thought she wanted some space for whatever reason but after running into her again and she seemed to blank me but still be talking a bit to other people I asked her husband (who I also count as a friend and was being the same as ever with me) if I had done something and what I should do because it seemed like she wasn't talking to me. He brushed me off and then told her that I had spoken to him.

She then sent me a very cold accusatory email saying they knew I obviously wasn't happy for them and it was time they both confronted me on this, that she had never given me the cold shoulder and doesn't know why I would think that, that they were both incredibly upset at people's reaction to their happy news (everyone congratuated them so I don't understand, although I know a lot of people have not really talked to them about it since because they have been acting like we should back off and they kept it for 5 months already, people think they don't want them involved to much). She said that they are hurt we have labelled them old and boring (no one has) and that in a time when they are busy & needed support they can't believe people are not at least asking if they need any help! (I tried but she ignored me, plus I have since found out that at least two other couple offered renovation help and were turned down!). She also said that I seemed to think she lied to me or denied being pregnant but she never did, and I had no right to know before anyone else (even though they'd said they told families and work colleagues at 3 months).

I very calmly wrote back and the main stuff i said was: that I was glad she was honest with me and that I was truly very happy for them and was really sorry if I hadn't made that clear and had hurt them. I said the reason I had felt she was being distant with me was because she hadn't spoken to me as much as usual and had ignored my offer of help (reminded her of what I had offered) and that's why I had spoken to her husband but if I had misinterpreted her then I was really sorry to have hurt her by doing that and should not have spoken to him behind her back. I reiterated that everyone was really pleased for them. I said that I was so sorry that they were feeling like this at what should be the happiest time and that I could only apologise and hope they would still want to be friends because they were very important to me and I hoped they would let me be there for them when they were ready..

She replied simply "thank you for your email, I think it's time to draw a line under this, I will arrange to meet you for coffee sometime, have a nice weekend'".

I don't understand the way she is behaving and I feel she hasn't really acknowledged my apology, just acted like I am a bad person. She has at no point called me a friend or said she wants to be friends where as I have made sure to say that I value our friendship and want to be a friend to both of them etc. I feel like I don't even know her anymore. She has never been like this, she is usually so warm and friendly.

Today I saw her coming towards me up the street and she actually turned and went the other way. I'm not sure if she knows I saw her or not. It's so bizarre.

I feel like I want to leave her well alone, but I am worried if I stay away completely she will think her accusations were correct. Also, our paths will cross at church stuff so I cannot keep away totally.

I am so confused as to what to do for the best and whether I am in the wrong or not. ???
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: gramma dishes on February 20, 2011, 07:10:58 PM
Is there any possibility, even hideously remotely, that someone else has told her you said or did things you never actually said or did?  Given what you've told us, it doesn't make sense that she'd think you think they're "old" , that you're not genuinely happy for them, that you didn't offer any help -- enthusiastically I might add!  Something's way off here and I can't figure out what.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: VorFemme on February 20, 2011, 07:12:36 PM
((((hugs))))

It's not you, it's them.

At least from what you've posted.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Pinky830 on February 20, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
I wonder if something is terribly wrong that she hasn't told anyone.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on February 20, 2011, 07:39:50 PM
^ That's what I'm wondering because this whole situation sounds really weird.  It kind of sounds like either she or her husband aren't actually happy about this pregnancy and are projecting their feelings onto other people.

In her email to you (the one described as cold and accusatory) it sounds as though she is putting blame on you for the actions of other people.  Talking about how people haven't offered help and have called them "old and boring" - unless she is saying that she believes that you, OP, have done either of these things, then why bother mentioning them as though they are your fault?

I think you're completely right that they have been giving off a "steer clear" vibe.  They are completely within their rights to choose not to announce the pregnancy until 5 months, but they can't then really be surprised that some people interpret that as them wanting some privacy about the whole situation.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LifeOnPluto on February 20, 2011, 08:01:38 PM
^ That's what I'm wondering because this whole situation sounds really weird.  It kind of sounds like either she or her husband aren't actually happy about this pregnancy and are projecting their feelings onto other people.



That was my first thought. Maybe your friend doesn't want kids, and now she's saddled with one, whether she likes it or not. I'm wondering whether the pregnancy was unplanned.

Perhaps she (and her husband) see your life as happy and carefree, and are envious that their own freedom is coming to an end, and soon they'll be stuck at home changing dirty nappies and wiping up vomit?

Another thought occurred to me - is it possible that your friend's hormones have simply gone completely screwy? Perhaps once the baby arrives and her body settles down, she'll look back at the way she behaved during her pregnancy and be ashamed and horrified?

As for what you can do, I'm afraid there's not much. Perhaps you could write her one final, brief letter reiterating that you love her, you don't know what's going on, but you'll always be there for her if she wants to re-open the friendship.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: shhh its me on February 20, 2011, 08:08:13 PM
   My interruption only...... something is really wrong. Up until OP got to the part about "no is supporting me" I thought something was either wrong with the baby , they were considering erm their options because they wanted to be childfree or that the pregnancy was the result of rape. I was leaning strongest towards the third. I'd also consider she is having medical issue which are causing personality issues.  At this point because she is behaving so odd , I would try keep an open mind and just tell her you don't understand. Hopefully she tell you something helps you make a decision as to how to proceed.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: gramma dishes on February 20, 2011, 08:12:27 PM
Samgirl2 ~~  To the best of your knowledge is she treating other friends this way too, or is it just you?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 20, 2011, 08:17:48 PM
She has been cool towards other friends but they have not really seen much of her and her hubby and don't normally outside of church or a few get to togethers anyway. Although they have asked after her to me and did I know how she was doing etc.

I think it is most obvious towards me because she and I spoke everyday up until now and everyone recognised we had a closer relationship.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Oxymoroness on February 20, 2011, 08:25:04 PM
I had a former friend who was like this.... Every major life change she'd go from super friendly to super cold. Then after a few years, she'd get back in touch and be upper friendly again.

Stupid me, I fell for it several times over the course of 10 years.

I finally realized what was going on the last time. When she went cold she embarrassed me horribly in front of some other friends that I was introducing to her. When I tried to contact her to see what was up, even what I had possibly done, she gave me the silent treatment for 2 years. I severed the last tie that I had with her (I was hosting her website for free at the time) and sadly let the friendship go.

2 years later she contacts me to tell me that she was ready to forgive me. AND to ask me to partner with her on a project for her business.

My offense? Apparently I was using her, and I was all take and no give. Oh, and I was ditching her for no good reason and I offered no support to her when her father had cancer.

I was stunned. For the following reasons:

1. For the "all take" - I always payed my own way, and I hosted her business's website, for free, for 5 years. She never offered me anything, except invitations to free events.

2. As for ditching her, yes I usually had to say no because the free concerts she invited me to were always at the last minute, at least an hour's drive away... And I can't go to most concerts because they gave me migraines (she knows this). But the real kicker is was that what offended her the most were the the things I couldn't attend during the time that my FIL was sick with cancer. For 2.5 years I practically lived in the car and was on a first name basis with the doctors and nurses in the ICU. Keep in mind, when we discovered the severity of the situation, we actually took my friend and her husband out to lunch and explained the situation to them, because we didn't want them to think that we didn't value their friendship. (The husband got it, he never had a problem with us.)

3. She never told me her father had cancer, because she was giving me the silent treatment at the time.

I had an epiphany of sorts. I explained the above to her and told her that I would not be apologizing because I had done nothing wrong. If she wanted to apologize to me, that would be fine, I'd be happy to accept it. But I would not be doing any business with her until our personal relationship was repaired. Which meant, that if I called her, I would not call again until she called me back. If she had a problem with me, then she had to call me to talk it over, and I would do the same if I had a problem with her.

She seemed to take it well. We even exchanged a couple of phone calls. And we even went out to lunch once when we met by accident one day.

But I haven't heard from her since, which isn't terribly surprising, another major life change happened. But this time I'm not hurt. I see the pattern, and I just don't count on her. Yea, it's sad to loose a friendship, but I even question how much of a friendship it ever was in the first place.

Don't chase her. If a friendship is rekindled, great, but now that you see how she's treating you, take it slow. It may be the pregnancy, or it could be that she just runs hot and cold. Either way, it's probably not you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: gramma dishes on February 20, 2011, 08:28:08 PM
Then I agree with Merry Mrs Martin, LifeonPluto and P-p-p-penguin.

There is definitely something very wrong.

I don't know what it is, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't anything you are doing, or did.  You honestly are left with very little choice.  You can't keep trying to contact her when she has made it clear that she doesn't want that.  Yet, because she's your friend, you also can't help but worry about her.  

It's too bad she wasn't a little more forthcoming to you.  Maybe not in this case, but sometimes when that abrupt change in a relationship happens it's because there's something going on that the other person is a little embarrassed about or ashamed of and doesn't want to reveal that so just avoids contact with the person she doesn't want to know about "the problem".

It's a shame she's 'rejecting' you now, because I have a feeling that now is when she needs you more than she has ever needed your friendship before in her whole life.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on February 20, 2011, 08:32:59 PM
If our suspicion that the couple aren't happy about the pregnancy is correct, then it could be that she's pushing you away because, as a close friend, that would be the kind of thing she would tell you and she's not willing/ready to admit it.  Sometimes you can think something but saying it out loud makes it 'real' and so you choose to keep it inside because you don't want it to be real.

I agree that it's not you; it's them.  They are looking for a lack of support from their friends when it doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: gramma dishes on February 20, 2011, 08:39:25 PM
This is a sad situation, and it doesn't appear from what you've written that you've done anything wrong.  But if someone doesn't want to be friends with you, they don't want to be friends with you, fair or not.  I think she's been pretty clear that she doesn't want you to contact her any more, at least not about this issue.  I'd wait for her to contact you next time, assuming you want to stay friends.

Sadly I agree with this wholeheartedly.  The ball is in her court now and she may or may not throw it back over the net. 

It's not fair, but you have to accept that this very well may prove to be the case and you can't "chase" the friendship.  Can you be prepared to let it go if that's her choice?  >:(
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: SingMeAway on February 20, 2011, 08:54:21 PM
Honestly, I'd avoid her like the plague. That probably sounds really mean of me, but her treatment of you as described is horrible. If you were some casual acquaintance, the behaviour would be just plain rude, but you were close friends; to me that makes it much worse.

I'm with the others who suspect maybe they're not quite as happy about the pregnancy as they've claimed. Or maybe they/she are happy about it, but having lots of insecurities and self-image issues. They're not happy about the pregnancy, so you can't possibly be. Maybe they think that being parents will make them old and boring...so now "everyone" is saying that about them. Maybe they are worried people won't want to hang around them with a kid in tow... so now "no one" is being supportive and helping out. Maybe the family they say is helping out isn't really and they don't want to admit that and ask others for help. This just seems like a whole load of projection.

After what they've said/done, I really don't know what you could possibly do but give them loads of space and if a good friend spoke to me so coldly and accused me of what you've been accused of, I would be a) really hurt and b) really, really, angry. Sorry you're having to deal with this :(.

Oh, and this is just me and I hope this never happens (and you know better, maybe it never possibly could), but I believe in covering my backside and I would be worried that if she's said all this stuff to your face, is she accusing you of these things to other people. If anyone asks again about her and how she's doing, I would be inclined to explain in very general terms (not mud-slinging or meanly or anything like that) what happened and that you're concerned about her, but you're hurt and not in contact.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: blarg314 on February 20, 2011, 09:03:32 PM

I agree that something is really wrong here. My guess, as for others, would be that this pregnancy was unwanted, and they're not happy about it.

However, I'm not sure you can do anything more than what you've done.  She obviously doesn't want anything to do with you, and is blaming you (and lots of other people) for things you haven't done, said or meant.

What I might do is write her one more time. Tell her that you didn't mean to do anything to hurt her, and wish her only happiness, but have been really worried about her. Then tell her that you accept that she no longer wants a friendship with you and will no longer bother her, but will be there if she changes her mind.



Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on February 20, 2011, 09:39:12 PM
You've tried several times and told her how you feel.  She's been very clear that she feels you two arent as close.

I think you need to lay off contacting her.  Stop chasing her.  Wait for her to reach out to you - she knows you're there.  Respond positively if she does, but wait for her to reach out.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: still in va on February 20, 2011, 09:52:51 PM
You've tried several times and told her how you feel.  She's been very clear that she feels you two arent as close.

I think you need to lay off contacting her.  Stop chasing her.  Wait for her to reach out to you - she knows you're there.  Respond positively if she does, but wait for her to reach out.

i think blarg has summed up her transfer of feelings onto you pretty accurately.  but i agree with Pumpkin here.  leave her alone.  let her come to you.  you apologized, she didn't accept, she drew the line, let her decide when the line has been erased.

if she doesn't reach out to you, you'll have to respect that.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: MerryCat on February 20, 2011, 11:22:36 PM
I'm going to agree with the previus posters, OP - avoid, avoid, avoid! If this is just some temporary insanity brought on by hormones or other stress, giving her space will allow her to recover. If this is a hitherto unnoticed facet of her personality making itself manifest then keeping your distance will protect you from getting burned.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Otterpop on February 20, 2011, 11:31:56 PM
We had a couple like this at church.  The were early 40s and it was a surprise.  They were not happy about it and it caused friction in their marriage.  They secluded themselves and cut off friendships until months after the baby was born, prematurely.  Once baby was well enough they reinvented their identities and joined the parents groups, made a whole bunch of new friends.  All the old ones were dumped.  It was weird.

And yes, people gossiped about them but not me.  I was just tarred and feathered with all the old friends.  Don't take this personally.  Like others have said it's them, not you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LifeOnPluto on February 21, 2011, 12:14:13 AM
Just wanted to add, if the pregnancy truly is unwanted, I hope they come to terms with it before the baby arrives. Otherwise I feel really sorry for the poor child.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Hanna on February 21, 2011, 12:29:03 AM
Call her.  It might not work out any differently, but you will know that you did absolutely everything possible to find out why she was behaving so strangely.  Make it about her, not your friendship.  "I wanted to congratulate you and see how you.  I'm here if you need anything at all.  I know being pregnant changes everything in one's life but I want you to know how excited I am for you and how important you are to me." etc. 

Just call her.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Ms_Shell on February 21, 2011, 12:37:01 AM
Is there any possibility, even hideously remotely, that someone else has told her you said or did things you never actually said or did?  Given what you've told us, it doesn't make sense that she'd think you think they're "old" , that you're not genuinely happy for them, that you didn't offer any help -- enthusiastically I might add!  Something's way off here and I can't figure out what.

This.  She told you specific things that you supposedly said that you never did, so my suspicion is that someone is lying to them.  I agree with GollyMolly that at this point, the ball's in her court - she told you pretty straightforwardly that she would call you when she felt like it.  I wouldn't contact her from now on.

ETA:  The reason being that she's very clear on the no contact from her actions - ignoring you on the street, etc. - trying to maintain contact is going to start heading into harassment-type behavior.  Also, hugs.  This is truly bizarre.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Iris on February 21, 2011, 03:47:27 AM
FWIW both times I was pregnant I got horribly offended, hurt and angry towards people who had really done nothing wrong at all. Having said that it only happened once each time, both in very early pregnancy. [In fact one friend said that she knew I was pregnant long before I told her (even before I knew myself) because it was so out of character for me to react that way.] By the time I was 5 months pregnant I had been heartily ashamed of reacting that way, made it up and everyone had moved on.

I agree with PPs that something is clearly bothering your friend. It is a shame that she is treating you this way but for the next little while I wouldn't take it personally because I think something is up. I would just keep my distance for a while. Keep talking to her husband, but talk about the baby and how happy you are, not about the friend as it may upset her when it gets back to her.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 21, 2011, 09:13:34 AM
Agreeing with everyone else... Something strange is going on here, but it's not up to you, OP, to figure out what it is before she wants to tell you. It seems pretty clear that she doesn't want any contact with you--turning around and walking the other way when she sees you on the street?! She has your email, she has your phone number, she knows where she sees you on a regular basis--if she wants to contact you in the future, she knows how. I would focus on other friendships right now and let her work out whatever she needs to work out. If at some point she contacts you again, you can start discussing her hurtful behavior, but I think you have to consider that you might need to just let her go.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Lisbeth on February 21, 2011, 09:37:13 AM
I agree too...something is wrong, but you've done everything you can to try to have a normal relationship with her and she just isn't responsive in any positive way.  Let her go.  If she wants to get back in touch with you, you can say, "The way you treated me during your pregnancy, with your coldness and false accusations, was very hurtful to me.  If you want us to stay in touch, then you owe me an apology and a valid explanation for the way you treated me, as well as a guarantee not to do it again.  Friends don't go cold on friends and then expect to get back together as though nothing ever happened."
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: learningtofly on February 21, 2011, 10:37:24 AM
Sometimes people get really strange when they are pregnant.  I have seen people drop all their usual friends for people who are pregnant or who have children.  Don't ask me why.  My friends who don't have kids talk about things other than kids and keep me sane.  But some people do feel the need to create a whole new identity once they have kids.  They join playgroups and co-ops and it's their new life.  I don't know why they don't realize that their old friends can still play a part.  We have friends who love our DD as much as we do and beg to babysit.

I did lose one friend during pregnancy.  I was exhausted and she could not understand why I didn't want to run 15 million places on our usual outings.  She was so intense and I was so tired and I eventually stopped calling.  I know she was hurt, but I had explained to her over and over why I couldn't do what I used to do and it didn't get through to her.  Someday, if she has kids of her own I hope she understands what I was going through and forgives me. 

I'm sorry about your friend.  You can wait her out, but it may not change.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: alegria on February 21, 2011, 11:24:51 AM
You have done nothing wrong that I can see.  For whatever reason, your friend is no longer interested in being friends with you, and she has clearly stated that fact.  It is unpleasant, it is unfair, and my heart hurts for you.  However, you should not contact her again - not only for your own well-being, but because she told you in no uncertain terms that she wasn't interested in talking to you anymore.  Contacting her again, even to apologize/explain, might be considered harassment.

I'm sorry.  :(
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: bopper on February 21, 2011, 12:57:22 PM
I say back off for now...it also may be that things are so mentally, emotionally and/or physically exhausting for her right now that she doesn't have any energy to spend on you.  I realize that you are trying to be there to support and help her, but that is just something she doesn't want right now for what ever reason.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Texas Mom on February 21, 2011, 01:12:48 PM
OP should back off.

OP was formerly very close with Mrs. Pregnant, close enough to know that the couple did not want children.  They are now expecting their first child.

This may be a situation that OP knows too much about a friend and is being cut off as a result, due to unplanned life changes.   (I've had this happen several times)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Shopaholic on February 21, 2011, 01:27:37 PM
I think there is a lot of jumping to extreme conclusions here about OP's friend and her pregnancy, be it wanted, unwanted or whatever.
The only thing that is obvious from OP's post is that friend has cut ties with her, and most likely with other friends since the pregnancy.

As PPs have said they have also experienced this in a normal, wanted pregnancy, I think it is unfair to assume that the pregnancy was unwanted or was a result of a tragedy.

I agree that the OP does not need to chase this friend anymore. You can't force somebody to be your friend.
I think the ball is in friend's court right now, but that OP should be prepared that she may not hear from her again in a long, long time.

I'm sorry you have to go through this, OP. Ignoring you on the street is harsh. :(

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on February 21, 2011, 01:54:27 PM

I agree that something is really wrong here. My guess, as for others, would be that this pregnancy was unwanted, and they're not happy about it.

However, I'm not sure you can do anything more than what you've done.  She obviously doesn't want anything to do with you, and is blaming you (and lots of other people) for things you haven't done, said or meant.

What I might do is write her one more time. Tell her that you didn't mean to do anything to hurt her, and wish her only happiness, but have been really worried about her. Then tell her that you accept that she no longer wants a friendship with you and will no longer bother her, but will be there if she changes her mind.


I'm not sure I agree with this, especially the last part.  She has already stated she doesn't want contact, so writing another letter would be bothersome and probably make her more mad.  Additionally, saying she will be there if she changes her mind somewhat justifies her horrible treatment of the OP and that she is willing to be treated like this again. 

I think if the friend wants to come back, she should do so with much groveling because even though I would be hurt by the treatment received by the OP, I would not be willing to take it.  I would just move on and forget about the girl. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: shhh its me on February 21, 2011, 03:41:47 PM
  I'm confused when the friend say she doesn't want any contact , I get that let's have coffee is a "blow off" and friend doesn't want to talk about this anymore but did I miss something?


I don't think anyone is assuming anything , friend behavior is peculiar.  She didn't just cut off OP she stopped socializing with a whole group of people of which OP was aparently the closest , ignored OP and then chastised her for not offering help and being happy enough for her. Being open to the possibility that something is mo-viating friend to behave this way beside just the facts (which would make friend a bit of a witch) is a kindness.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 21, 2011, 03:50:05 PM
Thank you so much everyone for responding. It has made me feel so much better that it seems to be her problem not mine.

I have discussed this with a few mutual friends now and they are all of the opinion that friend and her hubby are acting very strangely and even though they are not as close to them as I was have really noticed the change and think it's very odd to disappear and not want to keep up friendships at a time most people want and need them.  Also they feel like the fact they kept it secret for 5 months and haven't really seemed excited or wanting to speak about it gave the impression they didn't want people involved, so her accusations that no one offered to help them or is happy for them etc is like a request which is opposite to the message they have given.

I have decided not to contact her or her husband and to simply smile if I see them around church etc.  They can come to me if and when they want to sort things out.  My problem though is that we are in the same home group for church which meets once a week, always in someone's home. I don't want to leave the group because I really enjoy it and get on well with the other members, but there are only 9 of us so it is hard to avoid someone.

How should I be towards this couple when they are there? Granted this isn't often at the moment, but I don't want to appear cold, but nor do I want to be overly friendly towards them either because they have not been in anyway friends to me recently. We usually have a time of chatting and catching up, then bible study, then talking about anything we want prayer for and what is going on with us, so it's kind of important we can all communicate with and feel secure with each other...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: JadeGirl on February 21, 2011, 05:36:25 PM
Contribute to the discussions and the church home group just like you normally would, although I would avoid addressing her directly or asking her questions. Friend is the one who has a problem with you and won't tell you what is going on.  She has no right to drive you away from a worship group because you haven't done anything wrong. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Snowy Owl on February 21, 2011, 06:14:07 PM
I'd agree with Jadegirl.  Don't initiate conversation with her or ask questions.  I think I'd also say that if she talks to you be polite and impersonal and don't discuss anything more intimate than one would with a slight acquaintance. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on February 21, 2011, 06:24:48 PM
I would completely ignore her.  She initiated the cut direct.  You're just following through.  I don't believe you owe her any courtesy because of how she has treated you. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: SingMeAway on February 21, 2011, 06:36:01 PM
I agree with the previous posters. Be pleasantly polite if she or her husband addresses you, but nothing beyond that. No small talk, no chit chat, no inquiring after her health, etc..  If she was so adamant that you not contact her/speak to her, then don't; lest she accuse you of not respecting her wishes. Jadegirl is right, there is no way you should be driven out of a group you enjoy. As awkward as it may be, be your usual self, enjoy your time there.... and find others to chat with.


Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LEMon on February 21, 2011, 06:46:03 PM
I'm trying to decide how I would handle the home group ( I belong to a similar group).  I think my feeling would be to follow her lead.  If she opened up to me, I would respond both to what she said and by sharing in return at about the same emotional level (chit chat for chit chat, deeper for deeper).  To do otherwise, would for me be treating her as different from anyone else in the group.  If she focused on other people, I would do the same.  I freely admit I would be guarded and waiting to see if I could fully trust her.

I would wait for her to initiate in any circumstance - which is exactly what many have recommended you do regarding other forms of contact.

If she is walking the other way when she sees you on the street, I wonder if she will continue to come to the group.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on February 21, 2011, 07:01:19 PM
I'm a bit surprised by some of the responses in how to engage the frien r not.  It seems to me like to follow her lead would put her in a position of ...authority/power/control and somewhat justifying her treatment of the OP. 

No matter how good of a friend, if one treated me like this, it would never feel the same to me and I would just call it a day. I would not be driven out of the social group.  In my eyes, her goose would be cooked for me.

I'm surprised by the responses that appear to give her a break. A true friend would not treat a friend this way.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 21, 2011, 07:32:03 PM
I am curious what the policy is for conflicts within such a small group as your home church group (you said only 9 people). Is there a leader of the group that you could talk to about this and get guidance from? You said the group involves sharing somewhat personal thoughts (e.g., what your prayers are for and "what is going on with" you); this woman's behavior would make me uncomfortable with sharing things in her presence, and that is surely the opposite of what the group leader would want. Also, I'm confused about how she could be fully participating in the group when she (and her husband) have been so withdrawn and have not shared important things. It may be that I just don't understand how the group works. But, if her behavior is changing the dynamics of the group and making people uncomfortable, perhaps the group leader needs to step in and counsel her or the other members. Is this a possibility?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: rigs32 on February 21, 2011, 07:49:57 PM
I tend to be the type of friend that, if I am close to you, I will ask tough questions.  Questions that might seem rude to an acquaintance.  That's just how I am and almost all of the time my friends appreciate that.  My goal is to make sure they're making the decisions that they want to - and knowing that their choices may or may not be the best - and I support whatever decision they make. 

That said, I was in a friends wedding many years ago.  Let's call her Nancy.  She'd been in mine.  There were 4 couples and the woman had all known each other for over 10 years.  Nancy started dating a guy she wasn't really into because she was bored.  After awhile they got engaged even though she was still not that into him.  After she had a ring on her finger, any questions from her long time friends were ignored and she spent all her time with new friends that did not know about her previous attitude.  It's not that we didn't want Nancy to marry this guy, we just feared she was settling.

They've since had a couple kids and she no longer socializes with people who don't have kids.  We haven't spoken since about a month after her wedding.  It was so strange.  She saw my knowledge of her mindset as a threat and blocked me out.  I really don't think I ever showed anything but caring and honesty.  Maybe I didn't.  But I know that there's little I can do to change the situation.

I wish you luck and please don't think there is something wrong with you in this scenario.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LifeOnPluto on February 21, 2011, 08:02:37 PM
Given her previous behaviour, I'd be very surprised if this woman continues to attend this small church home group...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LEMon on February 21, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
My advice was how I would handle the home group.  Her last contact seemed to say 'let me decide when to be in contact again'.  So I would wait to see how she handled it.  I'm not about to force contact on her if she doesn't want, but I am not about to be the one to cut her in an intimate group setting.

I don't mean to imply I would let her off the hook as to a very deep conversation about why this happened if she did seem to want to renew the friendship.  And to me, 'renew' in this case would mean 'start from scratch to see if I want a relationship'.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Kath68 on February 21, 2011, 09:05:04 PM
I could be off base here, but is it possible the husband is jealous of your close relationship with his wife? If he has access to her email he could have intercepted your emails to her. Maybe he felt threatened by your offers of help (shopping, helping after baby is born etc), especially if their relationship is in a vulnerable state right now. He also could have misrepresented your face to face contact with him about this.

Even if this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean you can do anything about it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 22, 2011, 05:00:10 AM
I am curious what the policy is for conflicts within such a small group as your home church group (you said only 9 people). Is there a leader of the group that you could talk to about this and get guidance from? You said the group involves sharing somewhat personal thoughts (e.g., what your prayers are for and "what is going on with" you); this woman's behavior would make me uncomfortable with sharing things in her presence, and that is surely the opposite of what the group leader would want. Also, I'm confused about how she could be fully participating in the group when she (and her husband) have been so withdrawn and have not shared important things. It may be that I just don't understand how the group works. But, if her behavior is changing the dynamics of the group and making people uncomfortable, perhaps the group leader needs to step in and counsel her or the other members. Is this a possibility?

you understand it right, that's the kicker, she and her husband are the official leaders :-(  

However we all take it in turns to host and lead discussion so that makes it a little easier to avoid direct conversation I guess.

There are two coordinators for all the groups who are senior staff within the church but I don't want to escalate the issue by going to them at this point in time. She announced last week that she and hubby wouldn't be leading for much longer (hinted at a couple more weeks maybe) because they had other priorities and although when another member asked if they would continue to come when they could, she said they would but I am doubtful that they actually will.

Part of me hopes they will stop coming and the part that remmebers how good things were wants them to stay or at least be around sometimes because I think they will need the support once the baby is here.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 22, 2011, 05:14:44 AM
I could be off base here, but is it possible the husband is jealous of your close relationship with his wife? If he has access to her email he could have intercepted your emails to her. Maybe he felt threatened by your offers of help (shopping, helping after baby is born etc), especially if their relationship is in a vulnerable state right now. He also could have misrepresented your face to face contact with him about this.

Even if this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean you can do anything about it.

I don't think this is the case. I have always had a good relationship with her husband and he has in the past told me he is glad we are friends and that I have been good for his wife, plus he has still been behaving normally with me when I have seen him (saying hi, asking how I am, smiling at jokes etc), it is only her that is being strange.

Also the emails have come from her work account so he can't have done anything to that.

I have noticed that all the opinions she has expressed and the accusations and the announcement about not leading our church group anymore (see post above) have come from her only but she has always used the term we to imply that they both feel that way. He however has remained silent on the matter.

I wonder if he can see that she is out of line but is trying to stay out of it and being loyal and maintaining a united front with his wife. Perhaps that is why he did not want to talk about her behaviour with me when I asked and then told her that I had spoken to him. Could it be he was telling her to talk to me and sort it out, although unfortunately that just led to the accusatory email about none of us caring enough...

I am a little angry that he cannot be honest though and is letting her do all the talking. When I replied to her accusatory email I made sure to CC him into the message as well because she had said they both felt hurt and so I was trying to make amends to both of them but he has never replied.  If he does agree with her then it looks a bit weak to not speak up with her and to let her do all the talking, and if he doesn't then he obviously never valued our friendship enough to tell me the truth either.

Honestly this whole situation is making me angry now. I was very hurt/upset/confused. Now I am just angry at being treated this way and to be quite honest while I still care about them and worry for them I do not want them in my life at the moment. However I do worry about doing anything that would give them grounds to think her opinions are correct or to think badly of me. I wish I didn't care but I do.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: bah12 on February 22, 2011, 10:16:54 AM
I understand why you feel the way you do and in a similar situation, I too, would feel hurt, angry, and confused.

That being said, it's not healthy or productive for you to keep worrying about this.  I understand that this is your best friend who is pushing you away for no apparent reason, but as others have said, this is her problem.  Not yours.  She's dragging herself down in a funk, but you don't have to go there with her.

Whatever is going on, whether it has something to do with the circumstances of the pregnancy, crazy hormones, or whatever, she has chosen to back off of the friendship.  You made the right decision to just let her do it and not contact her anymore.  As for seeing them around, going to the home church group, etc. I would just continue on as if she was never your BFF and you never had a falling out.  Let her be the one to say that someone needs to change groups and if she does say that, I would contact someone at the church who can possibly help sort through the logistics of that.  If she is the only one that wants you out, leader or not, others in the group can back you up...perhaps all the way to change of leadership....especially if right now she's not emotionally able to handle both leading the group and navigating the pregnancy and the baby that comes at the end of it.

As for her husband, it's very possible that he's telling her she needs to talk to you or that she's projecting things on to you that aren't your fault.  He probably does want to see her continue her old friendships.  The thing is, what he says to her in private is private.  I know that I had some crazy thoughts when I was pregnant and my poor DH tried his best to let me know that without upsetting me too much.  In the end, he was always on my side and regardless of what we discussed in private, he never went behind my back and said anything to my friends about it.  I think that your friend's husband is probably doing the same thing.  He's still friendly to you, so that is a good indication that he holds nothing against you, but if his wife has chosen to let go of the friendship, regardless of how he feels about it, he's choosing not to publically oppose her in that decision. 

I know this is hard and I know it's difficult to see a good friendship fall away and not have the answers you deserve.  The thing is, you may never get those answers and your friend may not even know why she feels the way she does.  The only thing you can do is accept that this is what it is.  There will be a mourning period for sure, but eventually, you'll find that things are probably working out for the best right now.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: JoyinVirginia on February 22, 2011, 08:42:58 PM
I agree with other posters that you can only follow friend's lead, be coolly polite, and, like bah says, try to not dwell on this. You may get an answer one day, you may not, and it is normal to wonder and grieve the loss of a friendship. It doesn't really matter why, you can just respond to her current behavior and lack of contact.

There has been a lot of speculation about possible reasons for the change in behavior. Here is another possibility to add to the speculation. A few years ago I had a coworker who was bipolar and on some heavy duty medication to stabilize her mood. She wanted to get pregnant and in order to do that, had to go off her medications. The meds are not recommended for pregnant or nursing mothers. This was her second child and she shared with some of us coworkers who were very close to her what was going on, and she warned us that we would notice a change in her moods and behavior off the meds. And we DEFINITELY did. She was one personality on her meds, another personality off meds.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 23, 2011, 05:15:17 PM
Thanks everyone!  :D
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Raintree on February 23, 2011, 11:44:07 PM
I would also not chase her any more, and be polite but no more than that at church functions. She may come around in time, when whatever is bothering her has passed and she realizes how badly she's treated you.

Myself, I have little patience for so-called friends who suddenly give me the cold shoulder for no apparent reason. It doesn't happen much, but when it does, I'm just not going to chase people saying, "What's wrong? Is it this? Is it that?" if they aren't forthcoming the first time I ask. I just refuse to play their games. Got a problem with me? Tell me, and give me an opportunity to explain myself if there is any explaining to be done.

But I don't think it's a problem with you. As PPs said, it sounds as though they are having their own problems and shutting other people out. My first thought too, was that the pregnancy was likely unplanned. Or perhaps her pregnancy hormones are wreaking havoc on her emotions. Whatever it is, just wait it out and see if she comes around.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Ms_Shell on February 24, 2011, 07:02:40 AM
I don't think this is the case. I have always had a good relationship with her husband and he has in the past told me he is glad we are friends and that I have been good for his wife, plus he has still been behaving normally with me when I have seen him (saying hi, asking how I am, smiling at jokes etc), it is only her that is being strange.

I wonder if he said that because his wife has a history of suddenly cutting off friends or otherwise acting out in toxic ways?  If that's the case, then you have evidence that it's not you, it's her.   
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Twik on February 24, 2011, 08:19:53 AM
Honestly, it sounds to me like a combination of an unplanned pregnancy creating some underlying tension and some severe hormonal issues.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: GeauxTigers on February 24, 2011, 03:44:37 PM
Quote
some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: auntiem on February 24, 2011, 05:01:54 PM
Quote
some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 24, 2011, 06:07:26 PM
Quote
some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.



I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).

OP here again.


That makes so much sense GeauxTigers, when I think about it like that.  

Yes. Maybe to her, she has had this secret she's been keeping (for whatever reason, we won't know I guess) and so of course it hasn't seemed to her like she's been acting weird for 5 months because she knew the reason why. Then she announced it and it didn't get the reaction she was expecting, whatever that was, and now she's sulking. The way she's been behaving certainly does seem sulky!

But the rest of us just knew that this couple who were good friends seemed to pretty much disappear from our lives. They blamed work and being busy with renovations, but refused offers of help with that. We were left puzzled. Because I was closest to them previously, I asked after them, kept them up to date with what was going on and we still spoke by email everyday, but she would never meet up with me.  

Then we had a church social for a special occasion with some visitors and this couple came, she passed on the champagne, announced that they were having a baby and she was 5 months along. However it didn't seem like a planned announcement (plus she had to repeat it twice because not everyone heard) or even a particularly happy one, more of an embarassed one I think.  People were of course shocked because it was so unexpected and because she was so far along, but still congratulated them and all the usual stuff, but then what else is there to do until the baby is born really? Plus the reason for the party was already a special occasion for someone else and it was all a but strange. Maybe they expected more fuss somehow?

Then since then (nearly a month now) they still haven't really been around and she has gone completely cold on me, even told me not to email which was the only contact we had left at that point. Although from what I have gathered speaking to other friends, I'm the only one who took the trouble to try, or to offer help and to contact her directly during this whole period. Everyone else felt they were giving off 'privacy' vibes by being so absent and keeping the secret so long that they didn't bother.

I think maybe her judgement is completely clouded (possibly hormonal, possibly not) and she can't see it from anyone else's perspective. However there is no doubt in my mind now that she has severely over-reacted to these perceived insults to the news of their pregnancy. If she can't see that hiding something for that long from the person you said was your closest friend and telling them in no uncertain terms 'you do not have any right to know before anyone else' (that was part of the accusatory email as she thinks I accused her of lying to me in front of the whole party when what I actually said was 'wow, I can't believe you didn't tell me' and hugged her') and who you slowly cut yourself off from and now ignore in the street, even though they have tried to help you and have apologised for hurt feelings and told you that you mean a lot to them; if she can't see that isn't hurtful then I really know she is not herself.  If she is being herself then it was certainly well hidden.

Either way, I cannot see how I can think the same towards her again because even if this is a temporary blip it has ruined the way I see her now and I do not feel I can trust her. Of course if she has made this a permanent break then it won't matter....
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Pepper Saltzman on February 25, 2011, 08:54:57 AM
I wouldn't take any excuses from her.  Hormones, pregnancy, medications, stress; none would be a good enough reason/excuse for me to take another chance with her. 

I hope you can put this behind you.  You seem to be very caring and that will net you plenty of mutually beneficial and deserving frienships.  This ... is not one of those.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Twik on February 25, 2011, 09:35:41 AM
Quote
some severe hormonal issues.

POD - plus this:

Is it possible that prior to the pregnancy this woman was on certain medications? I'm not a doctor, and I certainly don't play one on TV, and I don't want to get this thread locked, but she may have been her happy, "normal" pre-pregnancy self due to antidepressants and/or other stabilizing medications - and now is unable to take them - and what the OP is seeing is her unmedicated "normal" state.

I think this could be the cause actually.
But for some reason when I read the OP's initial account it sounded like they kept the secret for 5 month (understandable) and then when they made their big announcement she didn't get the big Bollywood song and dance reaction she was expecting and now she is sulking about it and taking it out on the OP (not understandable unless there is the medication issue).

I agree that it may be a big part of it - but hormones are also a possibility. I would put the relationship on hold, not cut it off entirely, until the baby has been born, *and* she's had time to reestablish normal body chemistry.

If after all that time she's *still* sulking, then it's her. But even a normally good person may turn into something very different during/immediately after pregnancy. What is it one doctor said? "There are more hormonal differences between the pregnant and non-pregnant state, than between a man and a woman."
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: ClaireC79 on February 25, 2011, 02:09:24 PM
is it possible she thought you already knew, and so was offended at you ignoring the pregnancy and therefore was annoyed at having to tell you all at 5 months because her her mind 'duh of course I'm pregnant I told them all at Christmas so I have to state the obivous'
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 25, 2011, 06:05:51 PM
is it possible she thought you already knew, and so was offended at you ignoring the pregnancy and therefore was annoyed at having to tell you all at 5 months because her her mind 'duh of course I'm pregnant I told them all at Christmas so I have to state the obivous'

OP here.

Nope, no way. She had come up with all sorts of reasons not to be at things for months so people hadn't seen her, and she had never even hinted at it in email conversations. They had very much kept it hidden.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Marbles on February 26, 2011, 12:38:13 AM
That reminds me of my dad's ex-wife holding a grudge for years because I never acknowledged her father's death. Except that, neither she nor my dad ever told me that he had passed.  ::) Until she blew up at me about it, as far as I knew he was still alive.

I can see being upset because no one acknowledges your pregnancy, but not if you haven't told anyone about it. I'm not sure what more she thinks you all should do beyond offering congratulations.

Has anyone offered to throw her a baby shower or is she being so off-putting that no one wants to?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 26, 2011, 04:39:58 AM
That reminds me of my dad's ex-wife holding a grudge for years because I never acknowledged her father's death. Except that, neither she nor my dad ever told me that he had passed.  ::) Until she blew up at me about it, as far as I knew he was still alive.

I can see being upset because no one acknowledges your pregnancy, but not if you haven't told anyone about it. I'm not sure what more she thinks you all should do beyond offering congratulations.

Has anyone offered to throw her a baby shower or is she being so off-putting that no one wants to?

Sometimes I think we are all supposed to be psychic! I'm sorry about your experience.

Well baby showers aren't so much of a tradition over here. We usually buy a gift and drop it round once the baby is born, sometimes with food for the freezer.. Besides, I really don't think anyone wants to throw one for her....

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LadyL on February 26, 2011, 10:20:00 AM
OP, I went through a similar situation with one of my closest friends. In her case, she had depression that would get worse or better in cycles, and when it was bad she would withdraw and push people away but then complain about how no one cared and she was lonely. She refused any sort of treatment. Last winter she had a particularly bad patch where she lashed out at me and other friends repeatedly. She also was threatening to harm herself. I told her I was worried and thought she needed more help than just a shoulder to cry on. She got extremely offended and gave me the cut direct. I did email her and call to apologize for overstepping my bounds (more like telling the truth at the wrong time, but I figured she needed help and friendship more than I needed to prove I was right). She never responded and I haven't talked to her for about a year now.

It took me a pretty long time to mourn the friendship but her refusal to get treatment for her depression is out of my control. I do check up on her online profiles just to confirm that she never made good on her threats and is still alive and that's it.

I'm sorry for what you're going through but in my case the erratic behavior, lashing out and then complaining about isolation, etc. became very draining and the relationship was getting more and more one sided. Although I was baffled and angry about the cut direct in some ways it forced me to stop trying to support someone who didn't really want my support.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Twik on February 26, 2011, 10:57:46 AM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Elfmama on February 26, 2011, 04:05:30 PM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
??? Wrong thread?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Twik on February 26, 2011, 04:12:48 PM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
??? Wrong thread?

ARGH! YES!

How does this happen? Am I just careless with back buttons or what?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Hanna on February 26, 2011, 06:35:46 PM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
??? Wrong thread?

ARGH! YES!

How does this happen? Am I just careless with back buttons or what?
Oh funny, I thought maybe you had stumbled upon some great puzzle, which would, upon finding the answer, unlock the secrets to solving all problems.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on February 26, 2011, 08:54:51 PM
I was confused too!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: blarg314 on February 27, 2011, 12:46:09 AM

I think it's up to you how you want to go, and you have two options.

Your friend's behaviour has been strange/insulting enough that you are fully justified if you want to drop the friendship. Don't call, ignore her when she ignore you, be cool but neutral in group settings, and don't initiate conversations.

The other option is to basically do the same as above, but be receptive if she wants to reach out to you. If she's got wonky pregnancy hormones, plus ambivalence about the pregnancy, she may come out of it, realize how unreasonable she's been, and want to apologize. 

However, it's up to you.  Even if it is hormones, that doesn't preclude having the non hormonal spouse (ie, her husband), run interference and offer a quick explanation and apology to the people who are being cut off for no reason.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on February 27, 2011, 12:15:44 PM
No way would I be receptive if she reaches out.  If I were in the OP's shoes, too much would have happened to go back.  I would never trust her and it would never feel the same.  That's just me, though.  I know others are more forgiving.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Perfect Circle on February 28, 2011, 05:05:29 AM
No way would I be receptive if she reaches out.  If I were in the OP's shoes, too much would have happened to go back.  I would never trust her and it would never feel the same.  That's just me, though.  I know others are more forgiving.

I am generally pretty forgiving, but I am right with you on this one.

I do not believe for one minute that there is a reasonable excuse for this kind of behaviour. There just isn't.

To the OP - I am really sorry this is happening to you. This person no longer sounds like a friend and I would leavel well alone. You cannot keep apologising for something you haven't done. If I was in your shoes and she reached out to me at some point, I might be able to have some sort of a relationship with her, but I could never ever trust her as a good friend.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 28, 2011, 05:33:11 AM

I think it's up to you how you want to go, and you have two options.

Your friend's behaviour has been strange/insulting enough that you are fully justified if you want to drop the friendship. Don't call, ignore her when she ignore you, be cool but neutral in group settings, and don't initiate conversations.

The other option is to basically do the same as above, but be receptive if she wants to reach out to you. If she's got wonky pregnancy hormones, plus ambivalence about the pregnancy, she may come out of it, realize how unreasonable she's been, and want to apologize. 

However, it's up to you.  Even if it is hormones, that doesn't preclude having the non hormonal spouse (ie, her husband), run interference and offer a quick explanation and apology to the people who are being cut off for no reason.



Thanks, I think this is exactly right and what I will do. I have not seen or heard from her again yet but next time I do I will be cool and neutral and if she does reach out I am open to it but it will need a lot of consideration.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 28, 2011, 06:02:47 AM
No way would I be receptive if she reaches out.  If I were in the OP's shoes, too much would have happened to go back.  I would never trust her and it would never feel the same.  That's just me, though.  I know others are more forgiving.

I am generally pretty forgiving, but I am right with you on this one.

I do not believe for one minute that there is a reasonable excuse for this kind of behaviour. There just isn't.

To the OP - I am really sorry this is happening to you. This person no longer sounds like a friend and I would leavel well alone. You cannot keep apologising for something you haven't done. If I was in your shoes and she reached out to me at some point, I might be able to have some sort of a relationship with her, but I could never ever trust her as a good friend.

OP here again.

Thank you.  It's really interesting that I asked this same question on a faith-based forum and all the repsonses I got said basically that she's pregnant, she has hormones and new priorities and I should just accept and be understanding that that we won't remain friends because she must now focus on her family and I am expecting too much of her and should find other single people to be friends with!

While I do accept her new status and priorities - and if it's hormones I am willing to think a little more kindly and cut her some slack but still keep out of the way because the ball is in her court -  I don't think pregnancy is an acceptable excuse to just dump people who care about you and who have always been there for you.. I have had other friends have kids and of course things change, especially in terms of face time, but they never cut me out and never behaved like this so I will not excuse her that way.  They usually tell families and a couple of best friends a little earlier than everyone else and want to talk stuff over or get excited etc or for support in case it goes wrong etc. Sometimes I have been in on the secret, sometimes I haven't, it's totally depended on how close we were and that was totally understandable.

With this friend, she instigated the friendship, she has always confided in me, and offered up all sorts of personal info without me asking and actually told me how special I am to her, how much she and her hubby appreciate me, how she hoped we'd be friends when we were 80, and I know for a fact we spoke the most out of any of our friends; all the things that would make you believe you had an intimate friendship with someone. I have always been there for her and have kept some very big secrets for her which I have never even hinted at to anyone and she has always thanked me for that.  But the very fact that in her strange email she said "you have absolutely no right to know before anyone else" shows she no longer thinks of me as a best friend, or in fact as any different from other people at church or amongst our friends there.  

That is how I will now treat her. She is an acquaintance who I care for but do not trust very much. I will be polite and I will speak to her if she speaks to me etc, but I will not keep asking what's wrong or make any more apologies. I can't, because I don't need the humiliation mainly! I have asked if I did anything wrong and I have apologised to her for anything I might have done to upset her, made it known I care about her and asked her to let me know how I can help. If she doesn't wish to work with that then there is no point me asking again.

If she or her husband ever come to me with any reasons then I will listen and take it from there but I don't think I could ever feel the same way towards them. We may be able to be friends again but I would always be guarded with them.  

If they make the cut permanent then I don't think there is anything I could have done differently and that will be their choice, for whatever reasons they have. I have been the best friend I knew how to be with her and I couldn't have done anything else. I can no longer affect the outcome and that makes me feel much more peaceful about it all.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: gramma dishes on February 28, 2011, 10:25:46 AM
I have been the best friend I knew how to be with her and I couldn't have done anything else. I can no longer affect the outcome and that makes me feel much more peaceful about it all.

You HAVE been a great friend to her, one most of us would love and truly appreciate.  But you're right.  You can't affect the outcome now.  But your own behavior as a friend has been stellar and you know in your heart that you were a great friend.  So your own conscience can be clear. 

Sometimes, sadly, stuff just happens.  (hugs)  I'm glad you're at peace with it, knowing it's not your fault.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: secretrebel on March 01, 2011, 01:29:32 PM
With this friend, she instigated the friendship, she has always confided in me, and offered up all sorts of personal info without me asking and actually told me how special I am to her, how much she and her hubby appreciate me, how she hoped we'd be friends when we were 80, and I know for a fact we spoke the most out of any of our friends; all the things that would make you believe you had an intimate friendship with someone. I have always been there for her and have kept some very big secrets for her which I have never even hinted at to anyone and she has always thanked me for that.  

This reminds me of something. A relation of mine had a really close friendship with someone which ended when the friend accused my relation of doing all sorts of things that she hadn't and not helping her with something that she had helped with. It was all very strange and weird and my relation pleaded with the friend, just as you have done, and apologised and explained as much as possible that they hadn't ever meant anything bad. But friend just cut them off.

But later my relation realised that friend had sometimes spoken about having fallen out with other people and always had an explanation that the other people had treated them badly. It makes me think that some people have a pattern of this. They make really intense friendships and tell a lot of personal stuff and then maybe feel they've overshared and get suddenly huffy to have an excuse to end the friendship and not have it be their fault.

Ultimately it doesn't sound as though you've done anything wrong. You tried to give your friend the right reaction to her news. You tried to be respectful of their privacy when it seemed that as what they wanted and then offered congratulations when told they wanted that instead. But I think youre right to stop emailing her or making any other overtures. Maybe you tried too hard and pushed it a bit far in trying to keep the friendship but I;d give you a pass for that because you obviously cared a lot about your friend.

The balls in her court now for how she behaves to you. But if she does come around I don't think you're obliged to befriend her again - not without an apology and an explanation.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: DangerMouth on March 01, 2011, 07:31:53 PM
I'm sorry, all I can think is they got one of those horrible diagnoses. Like, you know know your child is too damaged to live more than a few hours after birth, but you choose to carry it anyway. In a case like that, I might forgive them from withdrawing from all those shiny happy people with their shiny, healthy children.

Anything less than that, though, it just doesn't seem reasonable that you'd turn away from your good friends. Not and expect them to be there for you down the road.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: alegria on March 03, 2011, 10:07:01 AM
With this friend, she instigated the friendship, she has always confided in me, and offered up all sorts of personal info without me asking and actually told me how special I am to her, how much she and her hubby appreciate me, how she hoped we'd be friends when we were 80, and I know for a fact we spoke the most out of any of our friends; all the things that would make you believe you had an intimate friendship with someone. I have always been there for her and have kept some very big secrets for her which I have never even hinted at to anyone and she has always thanked me for that.

This reminds me of something. A relation of mine had a really close friendship with someone which ended when the friend accused my relation of doing all sorts of things that she hadn't and not helping her with something that she had helped with. It was all very strange and weird and my relation pleaded with the friend, just as you have done, and apologised and explained as much as possible that they hadn't ever meant anything bad. But friend just cut them off.

But later my relation realised that friend had sometimes spoken about having fallen out with other people and always had an explanation that the other people had treated them badly. It makes me think that some people have a pattern of this. They make really intense friendships and tell a lot of personal stuff and then maybe feel they've overshared and get suddenly huffy to have an excuse to end the friendship and not have it be their fault.

I can vouch for being in that situation myself.  Betsy (who I've written about before) would have a falling-out with a set of previously close friends about once a year - she had three major "betrayals" from other people in the three years that we were very close.  When her erratic behavior and other problems severed our friendship as she was kicked off our dog sports team, I'm sure she saw that as my "betrayal" of her.  However, when looking back and seeing these huge fights once a year where she never spoke to the person involved again, I decided that was just another point in favor of it not being me, but her.  It's really sad, when you think about it, but there's nothing you can do but recognize the situation and move on.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: MrsJWine on March 03, 2011, 10:21:06 AM
I'm trying to think if this were one of my good friends (of more than a few years, so I know they don't have a history of this)... I cannot even begin to imagine any of them doing this for no compelling reason.  It's not an excuse; I don't think there's ever an excuse for treating a close friend like this.  But there are cases where I would try to be very understanding. 

If she were raped, and they kept the baby, but she's having a crisis of faith, and associates all church members with a god she formerly trusted and loved.  Or if there's something terribly wrong with the baby.  I can think of a lot of reasons a person would act so strangely.  Again, I'm not saying that makes it OK, just that I think there are some things that would warrant understanding.

I wish you the best of luck.  I hope that if there is something seriously wrong, she finally reconciles with you.  What a sad situation for you, OP.  :(
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 03, 2011, 11:17:00 AM
OP here.

Yeah, it did cross my mind that maybe there were health reasons related to the baby, or the circumstances of the pregnancy that might be contributing to her behaviour. It would certainly make me feel much more sympathetic towards her and honestly I was worried.

However, the night she announced it at the party (after everyone had congratulated them including me) we spoke briefly in the kitchen with no one around and did what I thought was the usual and correct thing of hugging her and asked if she was happy, was her husband happy about it (because one of the things she had confided about in the past was that her hubby wasn't keen and she didn't know if she wanted to either and if he didn't then the decision was made for her really), and she said they had both discussed it, that they decided they wanted children and decided to try and she got pregnant straight away and found out early October. I told her it was awesome, can't believe you didn't tell me! and hugged her again. I also overheard telling people about the scans and how everything was perfect.

So I guess it can't be that!

However, the more I think about it the more I think it might just be her personality and the hormones making it worse.  She has always been quite judgemental and easily hurt and I've heard about when other people have hurt her but it's never been directed towards me so maybe I was too slow to see. Maybe now she is just really over-reacting to everything? I honestly don't know!  Maybe she heard 'can't believe you didn't tell me' and didn't hear the excited tone or the smile on my face?

Or she just really is one of those people that changes friends with life changes.

Neither my friend nor her hubby were at our church group again last night and no one has seen or heard from them either. Another girl emailed my friend ahead of last night to ask if there was anything they wanted us to pray for but received no reply....
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: blarg314 on March 03, 2011, 11:39:14 PM

However, the more I think about it the more I think it might just be her personality and the hormones making it worse.  She has always been quite judgemental and easily hurt and I've heard about when other people have hurt her but it's never been directed towards me so maybe I was too slow to see. Maybe now she is just really over-reacting to everything? I honestly don't know!  Maybe she heard 'can't believe you didn't tell me' and didn't hear the excited tone or the smile on my face?


It could well be that. With people like that, it's really easy to be fooled by their nice person phase, because they are fun to be with and friendly and warm, as long as they get what they want. So when they talk about falling outs with other people, or people who have been mean to them, you assume that it was a legitimate issue.  Then, one day, you get hit with their nasty side, and you think back and realize that you've only ever gotten one side of the story before.

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Raintree on March 04, 2011, 01:13:52 AM

However, the more I think about it the more I think it might just be her personality and the hormones making it worse.  She has always been quite judgemental and easily hurt and I've heard about when other people have hurt her but it's never been directed towards me so maybe I was too slow to see. Maybe now she is just really over-reacting to everything? I honestly don't know!  Maybe she heard 'can't believe you didn't tell me' and didn't hear the excited tone or the smile on my face?


It could well be that. With people like that, it's really easy to be fooled by their nice person phase, because they are fun to be with and friendly and warm, as long as they get what they want. So when they talk about falling outs with other people, or people who have been mean to them, you assume that it was a legitimate issue.  Then, one day, you get hit with their nasty side, and you think back and realize that you've only ever gotten one side of the story before.

Bingo. Some people just seem to be serial falling-outers. Whereas someone would have to do something pretty nasty to get me to fall out with them to the point of not speaking (as opposed to a natural, gradual drifting apart of a friendship). I get a little suspicious when one person has a falling out with more than one person in their lives.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sammycat on March 04, 2011, 05:14:23 AM

With people like that, it's really easy to be fooled by their nice person phase, because they are fun to be with and friendly and warm, as long as they get what they want. So when they talk about falling outs with other people, or people who have been mean to them, you assume that it was a legitimate issue.  Then, one day, you get hit with their nasty side, and you think back and realize that you've only ever gotten one side of the story before.

Bingo. Some people just seem to be serial falling-outers. Whereas someone would have to do something pretty nasty to get me to fall out with them to the point of not speaking (as opposed to a natural, gradual drifting apart of a friendship). I get a little suspicious when one person has a falling out with more than one person in their lives.

This is so, so true.  I have unfortunate experience of this with a past 'friend'.  She had so many ex friends who had 'done the wrong thing by her' that we'd have needed a community hall if we were all to meet up.

I certainly don't think this is a 'cut direct' situation, but this so-called friend's behaviour would have me scaling things back to being acquaintances at best.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: HonorH on March 04, 2011, 08:07:46 PM

However, the more I think about it the more I think it might just be her personality and the hormones making it worse.  She has always been quite judgemental and easily hurt and I've heard about when other people have hurt her but it's never been directed towards me so maybe I was too slow to see. Maybe now she is just really over-reacting to everything? I honestly don't know!  Maybe she heard 'can't believe you didn't tell me' and didn't hear the excited tone or the smile on my face?


It could well be that. With people like that, it's really easy to be fooled by their nice person phase, because they are fun to be with and friendly and warm, as long as they get what they want. So when they talk about falling outs with other people, or people who have been mean to them, you assume that it was a legitimate issue.  Then, one day, you get hit with their nasty side, and you think back and realize that you've only ever gotten one side of the story before.

Bingo. Some people just seem to be serial falling-outers. Whereas someone would have to do something pretty nasty to get me to fall out with them to the point of not speaking (as opposed to a natural, gradual drifting apart of a friendship). I get a little suspicious when one person has a falling out with more than one person in their lives.

It's kind of like serial divorcees who blame everything on their spouses. You begin to suspect that: 1) there's something wrong with the way this person is choosing partners; 2) maybe this person's not such a great spouse, either; or 3) a combination of the above.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Pinky830 on March 04, 2011, 08:14:09 PM
There's a poster on despair.com that, while snarky, actually makes a good point..."The only common thread in all your failed relationships...is YOU."
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: blarg314 on March 04, 2011, 09:54:24 PM
There's a poster on despair.com that, while snarky, actually makes a good point..."The only common thread in all your failed relationships...is YOU."

Exactly. 

Most people I know have managed to go through life with things like horrible exes or high drama feuds or complete falling outs, or giving people the cut direct being a rare and notable occurrence. When I run into someone where all their exes are horrible $#@$ who betrayed them, or have a sequence of never-speaking-again falling outs with friends, or who have a list of people who were so horrible that they won't have anything to do with them, I notice, and am extra cautious when dealing with them, or trusting them.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Iris on March 05, 2011, 02:09:43 AM
There's a poster on despair.com that, while snarky, actually makes a good point..."The only common thread in all your failed relationships...is YOU."

Exactly. 

Most people I know have managed to go through life with things like horrible exes or high drama feuds or complete falling outs, or giving people the cut direct being a rare and notable occurrence. When I run into someone where all their exes are horrible $#@$ who betrayed them, or have a sequence of never-speaking-again falling outs with friends, or who have a list of people who were so horrible that they won't have anything to do with them, I notice, and am extra cautious when dealing with them, or trusting them.


I am too...now...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 05, 2011, 02:03:46 PM
UPDATE

So, I ran into my pregnant friend at the supermarket today. I was there with another mutual friend for coffee and to run errands and as we rounded the corner we almost walked smack into pregnant friend. 

She looked a little sheepish and hi and we smiled and said hi. We had a short conversation along the lines of ' hi how are you', 'yeah fine thanks' which was friendly enough but was basically like you would have with an acquaintance that you ran into and were just being polite. She was carrying a yoga mat and I asked if she'd taken it up and she just said 'yeah, I've started going to mummy yoga' then asked our mutual friend how she was and then we went our separate ways.

At least she is speaking I suppose but it was very definitely a 'hi, bye' type thing. 

So, being polite and acting like a general acquaintance seems to be the way forward.....
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: LifeOnPluto on March 06, 2011, 12:01:16 AM



However, the night she announced it at the party (after everyone had congratulated them including me) we spoke briefly in the kitchen with no one around and did what I thought was the usual and correct thing of hugging her and asked if she was happy, was her husband happy about it (because one of the things she had confided about in the past was that her hubby wasn't keen and she didn't know if she wanted to either and if he didn't then the decision was made for her really), and she said they had both discussed it, that they decided they wanted children and decided to try and she got pregnant straight away and found out early October. I told her it was awesome, can't believe you didn't tell me! and hugged her again. I also overheard telling people about the scans and how everything was perfect.

So I guess it can't be that!



Actually, I think it can be that. Now, she may be telling the truth. But her explanation sounds a little too convenient, to me. She and her DH have always been firmly child-free by choice, and all of a sudden they have a change of heart, and bam! she gets pregnant straight away?

Technically it's possible, but I still think it sounds more like an unplanned pregnancy that they're having trouble accepting...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 06, 2011, 03:16:52 PM
UPDATE

So, I ran into my pregnant friend at the supermarket today...  We had a short conversation along the lines of ' hi how are you', 'yeah fine thanks' which was friendly enough but was basically like you would have with an acquaintance that you ran into and were just being polite... So, being polite and acting like a general acquaintance seems to be the way forward.....

Thanks for the update. Glad it went ok. This is just one of those situations where it is her, NOT you, so just continue being polite when you run into her again.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 06, 2011, 04:14:01 PM
UPDATE

So, I ran into my pregnant friend at the supermarket today...  We had a short conversation along the lines of ' hi how are you', 'yeah fine thanks' which was friendly enough but was basically like you would have with an acquaintance that you ran into and were just being polite... So, being polite and acting like a general acquaintance seems to be the way forward.....

Thanks for the update. Glad it went ok. This is just one of those situations where it is her, NOT you, so just continue being polite when you run into her again.

POD. Maybe someday she will come around and explain why she's acting this way, or maybe you'll never know. But it seems like you did all you could, and the ball is in her court.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #2
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 07, 2011, 11:43:36 AM
So, as I said at the weekend, we seem to now be in polite acquaintance territory.  It's awkward but it's better than the cut direct I guess. I am ok with keeping things like that.

However old habits die hard and I'm having to give myself a pep talk to not reply to an email she has just sent round.

The email is to me and the other members of our church group which meets weekly. She has said 'hi all, wow, seems like long time no see'..'we have been busy with renovating'...'Anyway, due to other commitments we won't be around for the next couple of weeks'..' we won't be at group etc, just to let you know'....hope everyone is well'.

Yes, 'long time no see' because you have shut us all out!!

Of course normally I would reply and ask how the renovating went and fill them in on the latest news and say we'd see them soon etc. But with the way she has treated me I don't want to do this.

They are the official leaders of the group and normally remind people where we are meeting and who's leading discussion etc, althought they haven't really been doing this for months now because they have been busy and distant.  We have this week's meeting already organised without them anyway so I have emailed back to everyone (including pregnant friend) offering to host the following week and another girl has responded by offering to lead the discussion. I notice she didn't mention or respond to anything pregnant friend said either.

But is not acknowledging her email rude??
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #2
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on March 07, 2011, 12:03:51 PM
So, as I said at the weekend, we seem to now be in polite acquaintance territory.  It's awkward but it's better than the cut direct I guess. I am ok with keeping things like that.

(snip)

But is not acknowledging her email rude??

I don't see not replying as rude.  She didn't ask any questions.  She simply made statements.  I believe you can safely categorize the statements as "duly noted; no action needed".  

Emma
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #2
Post by: Perfect Circle on March 07, 2011, 12:30:36 PM
So, as I said at the weekend, we seem to now be in polite acquaintance territory.  It's awkward but it's better than the cut direct I guess. I am ok with keeping things like that.

(snip)

But is not acknowledging her email rude??

I don't see not replying as rude.  She didn't ask any questions.  She simply made statements.  I believe you can safely categorize the statements as "duly noted; no action needed".  

Emma

Totally agreed.

You might set yourself up for even more hurt if you did reply and heard nothing back.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #2
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 09, 2011, 04:26:33 AM
UPDATE

OP again!

So, she has just sent me an email saying 'Hi there. Hope you are well. I suggested some time ago that we meet for coffee. How does saturday suit at (her suggested time and place)?

What do I do?! I thought about it for a while and have replied just saying, 'Ok sure, see you then, have a good rest of the week'.  Polite but not trying to engage her in anything or be overly friendly.

She replied straight back with 'OK, see you then!', which sounds kind of like she is trying to sound happy/excited/friendly, which is confusing?

I have real mixed feelings though about meeting up. I have no idea how she will be and whether it's because she wants things to be normal again or because she wants to rant at me face to face this time? I feel like she has the power here. I also want things to go back to normal but after some of her behaviour etc I would have a really hard time doing that but I don't want to be awkward and cool with her if it's going to make it worse.  It's confusing!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #2
Post by: WolfWay on March 09, 2011, 04:53:35 AM
Go in cautiously and be prepared to get up and walk away if she starts ranting at you. You don't have to sit there and be verbally/emotionally abused by this woman. To be honest, if it was me, I wouldn't be going to coffee with her. She wanted you to leave her alone, so that's what I'd be doing.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: VorFemme on March 09, 2011, 07:20:40 AM
It sounds like she may have adjusted to whatever was going on in her head about the pregnancy, etc. (since we don't know what the heck was going on in her head, her marriage, and the rest of her life) and is finally noticing that she has a "rest of her life" to get back to.

Go, but be prepared to interact ONLY to the level that you are comfortable with - because she was the one who withdrew from "the rest of her life" - not you. 

She might not even have realized how many feelings she's hurt by being so prickly.........even though petting porcupines and hedgehogs is painful enough that most people give up quickly, she may not realize that she's been THAT prickly and given that kind of negative reinforcement to everyone she had been socializing with. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: sparksals on March 09, 2011, 07:23:24 AM
I agree with WW. If it were me, I wouldn't go. Too much has happened and she has sent extremely mixed signals.

You said it perfectly when you stated she has all the power.  I have said before that she holds all the cards if you allow her to treat you this way.  By going, it reinforces her behaviour. And treatment of you has been OK. I wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her.  JMHO. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: sparksals on March 09, 2011, 07:29:21 AM
VF - I think it is a cop out that she may not realize how prickly she has been.  By telling the OP not to contact her, by accusing her of all kinds of things, she knew exactly what she was doing. This is not the case of Ooooops, I made a mistake. This is a case of being abusive to someone who has been nothing but a friend to her.  Going will reinforce her treatment was not wrong.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Tosha Go on March 09, 2011, 07:37:19 AM
I'm on the fence about whether or not I would go...

Part of me wouldn't want to go after the way she's treated you.  On the other hand, I'd be interested to know if she offers up any explanation for her behavior, and doesn't want to communicate it in an Email. 



But there's also the cynic in me that thinks that with a baby being due soon, maybe she is looking to be buddies again so she can get gifts or help when the baby arrives.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Perfect Circle on March 09, 2011, 07:49:15 AM
I would be very likely to decline, but then on the other hand, might go just to see if she offers any explanation. But without a decent apology this might be a kind of a farewell coffee with her.

And like I've said above, I'd find it very difficult to ever trust her again as a close friend. In fact, I know it would be almost impossible.

Good luck, I hope it goes well on Saturday!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Alex the Seal on March 09, 2011, 07:54:09 AM
If you do go, you're wise to be prepared for a possible rant ambush.

It's happened to me, I drove across town at my friend's request, because she 'wanted to see me' and it sounded urgent so I was worried about her. I did not expect to get berated until I cried and I was too shocked to leave. I don't want that to happen to you, or to anyone.

If you can, find out exactly how much coffee (or whatever you want to order) costs at this cafe, have the correct cash on you, and if she starts, put the money on the table and leave.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Pepper Saltzman on March 09, 2011, 08:10:06 AM
I would not go.  No way, no how.  If she wants to apologize, she can send you an email and an apology would be the first basic requirement before I ever accepted an invitation from her again.  Even then, it would really depend on the content and sincerety of the apology and/or explanation for her behavior. 

Personally, I would send her an email telling her that you simply won't be able to meet up with her afterall.  No explanation necessary, and no future plans suggested.  After that, I would just stop interacting until she made things right and apologized and explained her awful behavior.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: VorFemme on March 09, 2011, 08:15:57 AM
VF - I think it is a cop out that she may not realize how prickly she has been.  By telling the OP not to contact her, by accusing her of all kinds of things, she knew exactly what she was doing. This is not the case of Ooooops, I made a mistake. This is a case of being abusive to someone who has been nothing but a friend to her.  Going will reinforce her treatment was not wrong.

I'm not trying to "cop out" - I'm trying to look at it with an eye to why the OP's pregnant "former friend now demoted to nodding acquaintance" would not realize that she's earned a demotion by her own behavior.  Some abrasive people just don't seem to realize how abrasive they really are........and pregnant women don't always realize that they've had personality changes early in the pregnancy.  

There has been a lot of discussion about mental illness, divorce, and other things in life that can impact how a friendship changes over time - if the OP wants to let her old friend demonstrate that the friend is ready to start building the friendship anew - it's her choice.  If the OP choses to let the old friend stay a nodding acquaintance - it's her choice.  But the old friend may not realize that she's sunk that battleship (reference to a game) and keep trying to play by the old "friend" rules instead of the exisiting "acquaintance" rules.

The OP needs to decide how blunt to be in letting the woman know what the current situation is...........and since none of us know the woman, we don't know what HER social skills & such are.  She might be Captain Oblivious, she might be General Oblivious, or she might be Eagleeye and notice right away that "something's wrong" on the OP's side but have no idea that her warped behavior the last few months is why.  Because she can't "see" her contribution..........for whatever reason.

Yeah - I've had people who insisted that *I* had taken something wrong when I thought our "friendship" had changed due to the way they'd treated me.  What had changed was my willingness to lie quietly when I felt myself being walked on.........they didn't think that they were abusing me, they treated almost everyone as a doormat so why did I suddenly have a problem with that?

Or in one case - I just got tired of trying to have a friendship with a weather vane who changed directions with every breeze (yes, I do like metaphors - but I can't think of any other way to describe her).
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Oxymoroness on March 09, 2011, 08:33:48 AM
I've been there.

Go ahead and go, (if you want to of course) but do not get back into the "BFF" mode right away. Think of it as starting over. If the subject comes up, be honest with her on how she made you feel. And if she goes off on you, excuse yourself calmly and walk away.

Pregnancy can make you a little nutty, but it is no excuse for treating people like crap.

Let's hope she had a moment of clarity and this is her way of apologizing.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: petal on March 09, 2011, 08:44:56 AM
I agree with WW. If it were me, I wouldn't go. Too much has happened and she has sent extremely mixed signals.

You said it perfectly when you stated she has all the power.  I have said before that she holds all the cards if you allow her to treat you this way.  By going, it reinforces her behaviour. And treatment of you has been OK. I wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw her.  JMHO. 


nicely put
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: SingMeAway on March 09, 2011, 09:12:53 AM
So now she's done with her little tantrum and wants to go back to what it was before? I've been pregnant, quite a few times, and I've never treated anyone like that. That really doesn't seem fair that she just seems to want you two to go back to your friendship because it suits her.

My first inclination is to say cancel the meet-up. On the other hand, my curiosity might get the best of me and want to see if she has any justification for her horrible treatment of you. If I went, I think I would be sitting there with an expectant look on my face waiting for an explanation AND an apology because you really, really, do deserve both. If none was forthcoming, I think I would ask very pointedly just why she behaved the way she did and why, oh why, did she think it was ok to say the horrible things she did.

I know a few people who tend to say whatever they want when they're upset or angry and when they're feeling better, all is back to normal....for them, and that is just not right. Please don't settle for the way she's treated you. I do know it's hard to lose friendships or have them turnout to not be what you thought, but you really do deserve so much better.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: celtic_lady on March 09, 2011, 09:43:39 AM
If you go you'll need to keep your guard up, and as others have suggested, be prepared to leave if she acts inappropriately towards you. It is very possible that she is extending an olive branch and is prepared to apologize and explain her behavior. I would give her that opportunity, but if she pretends like nothing has happened or becomes hostile in any way, that's your cue to let the friendship die. Even if she apologizes, though, I'd still keep her at arms length after all that has happened. I have a former best friend who turned on me quite suddenly during our last year of high school. It was so hurtful that it practically ruined my senior year. She did eventually reenter my life during college and apologized for her treatment of me. Her explanation was that she was going through a bad time and had gotten caught up with the "wrong crowd". I accepted her apology and we've stayed in touch over the years since then, but the friendship was never the same. There are some things that you just can't bounce back from completely.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 09, 2011, 09:48:02 AM
Just tossing my two cents in. I think if it were me, I would be so curious at this point that I would meet with her just to see what she was going to say. I would be prepared to get up and leave, though, if it started to go downhill. I would definitely try not to get my hopes up that this was going to be any kind of "restart" but rather approach it almost as an anthropological investigation, if you know what I mean--"Hmm, interesting, what will she do now?" without being emotionally invested in one outcome or another.

As others have said, you deserve an apology, an explanation, and much better treatment from now on if this woman is to remain a friend. If she doesn't feel she can remain a friend, you still deserve at least a sincere apology. If you don't get even that, I would suggest remaining at "friendly acquaintance" level, and that means you don't have to go out for coffee or anything else with her in the future.

However, I would not blame you at all if you decided you didn't even want to meet with her now and canceled the meeting--that wouldn't be considered rude in this case, would it? And didn't set up or commit to another one. As others have mentioned, she could start by apologizing through email if this was really the purpose of the meeting... "Just wanted to let you know how sorry I am about the way I've acted lately. Can we get together so I can explain and apologize properly?"
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: sparksals on March 09, 2011, 10:31:12 AM
Sorry VF I did not mean you are copping out suggest she did not realize her behaviour.  I think SHE is a cop out if she thinks that.  I'm of the firm belief she knew exactly what she was doing and even if she didn't, pregnancy is not an excuse to treat a friend like crap.

I agree with the others that she should have apologized first in the email.  I fear the OP's quick yes to the invite has reinforced the OP as a pushover in the 'friend's' eye.  Disclaimer: OP is not a pushover. But the friend may think the OP will accept her behaviour in the future.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on March 09, 2011, 11:41:44 AM
I agree that accepting the invitation may have been a mistake. 

It seems like what the former friend deserved was really a "why would I want to do that", possibly followed up with "you did X, and y, and z."

Emma
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: MrsJWine on March 09, 2011, 12:13:08 PM
Sorry VF I did not mean you are copping out suggest she did not realize her behaviour.  I think SHE is a cop out if she thinks that.  I'm of the firm belief she knew exactly what she was doing and even if she didn't, pregnancy is not an excuse to treat a friend like crap.

I agree with the others that she should have apologized first in the email.  I fear the OP's quick yes to the invite has reinforced the OP as a pushover in the 'friend's' eye.  Disclaimer: OP is not a pushover. But the friend may think the OP will accept her behaviour in the future.

I agree.

But I also know that burning curiosity would get the better of me, and I'd probably do what the OP did.  Go in with a visibly stiff spine and a cool disposition.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: VorFemme on March 09, 2011, 12:53:18 PM
Yes - going in with a cooly polite demeanor and an expectationn that you get an apology and at least a partial explanation or it's going to be "nodding acquaintance from my past" time with the former friendship because "your lives have gone in different directions".

Kind of Jane Goodall switching from archeology to chimps to gorillas...........just let her know that your friendship with her is now  part of your history, not your future - because you are moving on to the next phase of YOUR life.  Unless you get a danged good apology and at least a fairly good explanation.  What that would have to be, I do not know - but it's your life - you get to decide what would allow you to retain some level of friendship beyond "nodding acquaintance that I used to know better way back in history".
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: BarensMom on March 09, 2011, 02:29:52 PM
I'm on the fence with some of the other posters, but the cynical side of me is thinking two words:  Baby Shower.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Kaypeep on March 09, 2011, 04:09:35 PM
I think you should go, but should definitely bring up the issues of late.  I'd specifically reiterate her comments about you and ask her to give examples to justify the accusations/assumptions she made about you, because as far as you're concerned they are totally false and it has hurt you deeply that she said this about you.

If she makes up excuses, be strong and weigh whether or not they are sincere and fully make up for what she's done to your friendship by implying you have been the bad friend.

And POD to BarensMom - be wary that she's just looking to mend fences long enough to get a baby shower out of it. (I normally wouldn't think twice about that, but the stories on this site tell me that nothing is impossible.)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 09, 2011, 05:38:54 PM
OP here.

Thanks everyone for your advice, it's so appreciated.

I accepted the invitation because I am very curious and because I don't want to be the one getting in the way of any progress or finding out any explanations for her behaviour the past few months. However, I am absolutely cautious about going.

Lynn2000 I love the anthropology analogy and that's really how I'm feeling at the moment. I want to go, just to find out how she will behave and what she will do really. I agree she should have emailed an apology as part of the invitation to coffee. I know I would have done, or at least say that I wanted to sort things out so could we meet up. As she hasn't done this I think she either doesn't realise what she's done, or she is not meeting to sort things and is just ending things this way, so I'm not getting any hopes up. I'm going to go for curiosity.

Alex the Seal
I am so sorry for your experience. It sounds awful. I think that a while ago I would have been like you and been too stunned to leave because it was raw and I would have wanted to do anything to fix the situation, but having had a lot of time to think about this with no contact with her I am at a place where I think I can tell her I am walking away if that happens and I would.  I will get there a little early and make sure to have ordered an paid for my coffee and found a table before she arrives.

Mrs Mouse Yes, I will certainly be expectant and cool. I will interact on a polite and friendly level but i will definitely be waiting for her to say something about what has been going on. If she acts like nothing is wrong and everything is the same as before and we are BFFs then I will ask her why she invited me there.  Depending on her reply I will take it from there.  I figure there are only a couple of replies she can make. Either she invited me because she hasn't seen me in ages or something like that along the friends line - in which case I will ask what has been going on and why they have avoided everyone and point out she has been quite cold and hurtful recently and it doesn't seem like there is much of a friendship - or she can go along the lines of wanting to catch up and explain - in which case I will listen to the explanation.

If she tries to just act normal and doesn't acknowledge when I say there is a problem then I will have to tell her that I can't try anymore. That I have done everything I can to be a friend to her but it is a two way street and all I have got back was hurtful comments or silence. If she wants to sort things out she is going to have to explain her behaviour. Then I will leave.

I would dearly love for her to be able to explain what has been happening, then we could beging to maybe repair things. Or to at least acknowledge our past friendship and offer an apology and go our separate ways. However, I truthfully don't see that it would ever be the same as before. She will never be my 'go to' person again and I will not cut her as much slack or always give her the benefit of the doubt just because sometimes she can be lovely.


Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: HonorH on March 09, 2011, 07:30:28 PM
For what it's worth, OP, I think you're doing the right thing. For the sake of the friendship you had, give her a chance to explain. People who are hurting often push people who love them away, sometimes cruelly. Sometimes, there's no going back. Sometimes, though, there is going forward. Ask her what's been going on and tell her you've been hurt by her accusations. If she apologizes sincerely, you can take it one step at a time. If she gets angry and tries to justify herself, you'll know there's no friendship left to salvage.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: WolfWay on March 09, 2011, 11:01:51 PM
I'm on the fence with some of the other posters, but the cynical side of me is thinking two words:  Baby Shower.
Good point.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 09, 2011, 11:37:22 PM
I'm on the fence with some of the other posters, but the cynical side of me is thinking two words:  Baby Shower.
Good point.
That had not occurred to me - but makes sense!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Dindrane on March 09, 2011, 11:52:07 PM
I think the one piece of advice I would give to you is to keep your expectations reasonable.  You might want an explanation, an apology, a profession of a desire to be friends, whatever.  I'd want those things, too.  But there is a very good possibility that you won't get that, so don't set yourself up for disappointment by letting yourself expect or even hope too much for it.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably have accepted the invitation for coffee as well.  Even after treatment like what you've described, it's very hard to let go of what was a close friendship.  Because I know I wouldn't be fully decided on a course of action, I'd go to coffee and just let that weigh in on the decision.  If I got an apology and an explanation, I'd likely be able to work through at least some of the hurt and have a friendlier relationship.  If I got nothing, I'd feel a heck of a lot less guilt mostly ignoring her from this point forward, because I'd be able to tell myself that I tried my best.

Basically, at this point, the best guide for yourself is to choose whatever course of action is going to sit the best with you.  It's a time to be selfish, because you're the only one who has to live with your decisions.

I hope that whatever else happens, you are able to eventually come away from this time without any lingering doubts or anger.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: sparksals on March 10, 2011, 12:21:56 AM
Dindrane makes a good point.  If anything, this meeting can be a form of closure.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Baxter on March 10, 2011, 02:48:53 AM
I'm just posting for updates and to wish you good luck, I hope the meeting turns out the way you want it to.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Winterlight on March 10, 2011, 09:04:05 AM
I'm on the fence with some of the other posters, but the cynical side of me is thinking two words:  Baby Shower.

Oh, good, it's not just me.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: VorFemme on March 10, 2011, 11:46:18 AM
Or a little further ahead..............Baby Sitting................
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 10, 2011, 04:54:56 PM
VF - I think it is a cop out that she may not realize how prickly she has been.  By telling the OP not to contact her, by accusing her of all kinds of things, she knew exactly what she was doing. This is not the case of Ooooops, I made a mistake. This is a case of being abusive to someone who has been nothing but a friend to her.  Going will reinforce her treatment was not wrong.

I'm not trying to "cop out" - I'm trying to look at it with an eye to why the OP's pregnant "former friend now demoted to nodding acquaintance" would not realize that she's earned a demotion by her own behavior.  Some abrasive people just don't seem to realize how abrasive they really are........and pregnant women don't always realize that they've had personality changes early in the pregnancy.  

... But the old friend may not realize that she's sunk that battleship (reference to a game) and keep trying to play by the old "friend" rules instead of the exisiting "acquaintance" rules.

The OP needs to decide how blunt to be in letting the woman know what the current situation is...........and since none of us know the woman, we don't know what HER social skills & such are.  She might be Captain Oblivious, she might be General Oblivious, or she might be Eagleeye and notice right away that "something's wrong" on the OP's side but have no idea that her warped behavior the last few months is why.  Because she can't "see" her contribution..........for whatever reason.

She is usually Eagle-eyed at noticing these things, however she also usually hates confrontation so I think it's quite probable that she will just be having coffee because she said she would in her earlier emails, realises she may need people once the baby is born and is trying to act like everything is fine and this is a token way of doing it.

I am quite prepared to let her know what the current situation is now.  I think, as many PP's have said, that something is going on that I will probably never know about and depending on how the whole meetup goes I am planning to say that:

"I feel like there is something going on with you, and I am not asking you to tell me if you don't want to, it is up to you. But you should know that your distance over the past few months and some of the comments you've made have been very hurtful and I don't feel like I know you anymore. This is not about the pregnancy, whatever you may think - i.e. your comments about such good news being hard to deal with for single people, or that this is a new phase in your life and we have labelled you old and boring. A baby is a wonderful thing and I would never begrudge you that. It is your life and your baby and aside from maybe helping out, it is nothing to do with me. This is about the way you have behaved towards me  I still care about our friendship and I know others do too, but you can't push people away the way you have been and not expect things to change. I have apologised to you for anything I may have done, told you I value your friendship, offered my help, and given you my congratulations on the baby. All I have had from you is a 'thanks for your email'. It doesn't seem to me like you want to continue this friendship, certainly not right now anyway. If you do, then you know where I am and I will be here if you want to talk to me but you should know that things can't be the same right now. I don't feel that I can trust you and I don't feel that you think of me as a friend. Because of that, I can't invest the same time in this as I used to."

Of course I may never get to say this, but I hope I do.  Does it sound ok?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: sparksals on March 10, 2011, 05:40:36 PM
It sounds great!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: Dindrane on March 10, 2011, 06:43:46 PM
I think that what's behind what you're expressing is fine, and I agree with it, but you might want to shoot for being more concise.  If she brings the subject up, I'd lean more towards saying something like this:

"Friend, your actions over the past few months have really hurt me.  It seems as though there was something going on that I didn't know about, because I have not been able to come up with a reason why you would push me away so suddenly and so coldly.  It really hurt to have someone I used to talk to daily and see often suddenly stop talking to me and not want to see me for weeks on end.  It really hurt when you said that I wasn't supporting you or offering you help, because I did.  It really hurt when you avoided me at church/in public, without any explanation as to why.

I have always valued your friendship, and I still do, but I don't really know if I can go back to how things were before.  I don't think you have been treating me very much like a friend recently, and I am not sure how to trust you again."

Personally, I would focus on saying things like "I was hurt when..." because it is more difficult to argue with things like that.  Even if your friend thinks she was justified, it is still difficult to argue when your response is, "I understand, but I found it very hurtful that you didn't explain that then/ignored my offer of help/accused me of saying things I didn't say."

At this point, I wouldn't focus in on the fact that you value her friendship, although it's probably worth saying once, nor would I try to explain myself again.  I would stick with saying "You hurt me and I don't trust you anymore."  If she's truly sorry for that, you'll be able to have a discussion about what the heck happened and how to prevent it in the future, and you can start to work on a better friendship.  If she's not truly sorry, your conversation will be far easier and shorter if you don't get into reasons and explanations.

I wouldn't even tell her what you think she needs to do for you to want to reestablish the friendship.  If she's interested, she'll ask (or if she's really self-aware, she'll already have a few guesses).  If she's not, it saves you from sounding like you're demanding something from her.  Go prepared with a concise idea of what she would need to do (I think she'd have to explain and apologize, as well as tell you what she's going to do to prevent it in the future, but you might have your own list), but don't tell her what those things are if she doesn't ask you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #93
Post by: CuriousGeorge on March 11, 2011, 12:17:39 PM
What if you wrote that and put it in a note to her?  Would she then be able to "absorb" it more than if she was just hearing it and (possibly) immediately get defensive?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 12, 2011, 07:53:24 AM
UPDATE

So, I have just come home from the coffee meeting with pregnant friend. I feel like it was a waste of time, nothing is resolved and I cannot be the same as I used to be with her. I still care, I will remain a polite acquaintance and if she ever explains I will listen but it's the end of my hoping or trying.

Bear in mind we were very close friends and she has been distant for several months - avoiding seeing anyone, or coming to church or usual stuff they always are at - but was still chatting to me by email, until the announcement 6 weeks ago, when she has been really cold and has not contacted me at all apart from when I emailed to see what was wrong and try to sort things out and she accused me of not being happy, not offering to help and said she had other pregnant friends she was talking to and I should no longer email her at work. Neither have she or her husband spoken to anyone else from our group of friends. She also a few days ago sent round an email to us all in the church home group they lead (but have barely attended for a long time now) saying due to other commitments they would not be around for the next several weeks at church, at home group, or anything else. She then asked me to meet her for coffee today.

I got there dead on time, waited a few minutes but no sign of her so I joined the queue at the counter and paid for my drink. Pregnant friend came in just as I was looking for a table. I had assumed she would come by herself, as would be usual for when we used to meet, but she'd brought her husband.  I said hi and that I was just finding a table and they smiled and said ok. Then joined the queue. I thought she might come over and leave her husband to get the coffees, but instead I was left sitting and wondering by myself, feeling completely on edge and nervous that they were about to tell me something I didn't want to hear, otherwise why would both of them come? I felt like it was either going to be an apology, an explanation or more accusations that I wasn't happy for them.

So after quite a long time waiting for their drinks they finally came over and sat down. I smiled, said 'hi, how are you' and kind of waited for them to say whatever they were going to say. Instead, they acted like everything was completely normal. Said they'd been really busy renovating their bathroom and told me all about that, how she had been to visit family for a few days and how her sister's bump is much bigger than hers. How she and her mum had gone pram shopping etc etc. I listened but I was, I am certain, noticeably cool throughout.

Then she asked 'so, how've you been'.  I said fine thanks and waited. Nothing. Her husband asked how work was so I told him my dept didn't get renewed funding so my contract is up in 6 months but there were a few options in the organisation for me which I was waiting for news on so I was nervous but not panicking yet. He looked really sympathetic and concerned and pregnant friend asked about the options and what I wanted to do etc so we discussed that for a little while but then I steered it back to them and said what were they up to for the next little while as her email had said they wouldn't be around.

She said they had her brother and his wife staying next weekend and then in May her parents were visiting for a weekend and they wanted to sort out the garden too. Oh and they were booked in for birthing classes soon. Now it may be me, but these don't seem valid reasons to duck out of everyone's lives completely?  Then she asked what I was doing for the rest of the weekend. I said I was meeting 3 mutual friends for coffee later this afternoon and singing at church tomorrow. (Her husband was supposed to be leading the band tomorrow as there is a rota of leaders, but has passed it to someone else for the 2nd time running).

Again, I sat and waited. I would have loved to have asked her straight out what was going on, and said the stuff I wrote in my previous post, but with her husband there it seemed impossible. It was like a unit facing me across the table.

She then asked how all our friends were. I told her - one friend is waiting for the results of some serious medical tests, another has applied for a new job and we are all helping with the planning for a third friends upcoming wedding (pregnant friend is invited to the wedding but turned down the invitation to meet to discuss plans etc, even though it is a close friend who has no family nearby). I told her there have been a few meetings and we all have little assigned tasks like helping decorate the venue, writing place settings, one older lady is making the cake and another doing the flowers etc, we are all looking forward to it.  Told them everyone else was fine. These are all things she would know and be interested in under normal circumstances but she didn't want to know much more than that it seemed.

I asked what they were doing for the rest of the weekend (thinking it must be something big, given that her husband had said he couldn't be at church and lead band tomorrow when he has told me in the past how much he loves doing it) and they said they were off next, should probably go now in fact, to look for window blinds for the bathroom in a shop down the street and then needed to clean the house. Then they started to get up and leave.  We walked out the shop and I smiled and said have a nice weekend and she smiled and said enjoy coffee this afternoon, and that was it.

I am conflicted about why she asked to meet. On one hand I think it was because she had mentioned it some time ago (when I had tried to sort out the distance etc by emailing her and asking what was wrong, she had just said thanks for your email, we'll meet for coffee sometime) that she felt she ought to to keep up appearances. If she had wanted to really chat to me she wouldn't have brought her husband and would have stayed longer too.

On the other hand, maybe she just really doesn't realise how much damage they have done and how much they have distanced themselves from everyone and so just wanted to catch up and as they both needed to go to a nearby shop, her husband came too.  But if that is the case she must be really in her own little world.

Either way, it should have been easy for her to see I was not being my usual self and I feel like a real friend would have asked about that, or was everything ok? Or would have acknowledged that we haven't seen each other in ages and at least made mention of it, even if they didn't want to explain the reasons why. In the past, if we went 2 weeks without meeting in person she would be like 'it's been ages, I've missed you'. When I came back from holiday last summer she came rushing up to me and gave me a huge hug saying it wasn't the same without me and wanting to know all about my trip. So it's not like these expectations are unprecedented or something.

I feel like I have no idea what she wants or what she is thinking and that she has not really understood anything she has done over the last few months.  In her two emails to me after she announced the pregnancy she seemed convinced I was finding her news hard to deal with, that it was a new stage in their lives and that I was not happy that they were moving on. This is so untrue it's ridiculous and I explained that in my reply at the time, but what if she really still thinks that. I hate the thought that she does and that she may be telling other people such things about me.

At this point, whether it's what she intended to convey or not, it seems to me we are not close friends, we do not tell each other what is going on in our lives and it doesn't matter whether we speak often at all.  She is someone I care about but not someone I feel close to or feel an obligation towards anymore. If they continue to come to church after the baby is born then I will of course run into them so they are not out of my life, and I will say hello and tell them the baby is lovely, but until she changes her behaviour I really can't do more than that, as much as i may want to.

Does anyone have any insight or opinions or suggestions?!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Daffydilly on March 12, 2011, 08:47:46 AM
I'd let go at this point. She has made a social move for appearances. But like you said, she's made no attempt to explain her actions. And you've been left hanging and accused of issues she might be dealing with internally. It sounds like she has made you a scapegoat of sorts for her issues in fact. Your plan sounds like a good way to go, politely distant until she can explain herself and make amends. But that might or might not happen after the baby comes. Lots of hugs for you, it's not easy loosing an old friendship and being left wondering why.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: gramma dishes on March 12, 2011, 09:04:16 AM
I think your friendship has turned into an acquaintanceship.  Her husband may or may not have had something to do with her unwillingness to meet with you alone. 

I think she invited you to coffee just simply because she had indicated that she would and now she has fulfilled that particular obligation and considers it done.

It's very sad when these things happen, but be assured that it almost certainly has NOTHING to do with you or anything you did or didn't do.  It's simply that things have changed in her life and she is now going in a totally different direction.  It may be that she no longer thinks the two of you will have anything in common and will develop new friendships with other mothers of young babies.

On the other hand, none of that would seem to have anything whatsoever to do with their sudden lack of participation in the church events that were at one time so important to them.  So there may be something unknown going on.  You can't do anything about that. 

But it's not your fault and I hope you will just be able to let this friendship go when you realize that right now she is simply no longer the person you once considered to be one of your closest friends.  She's someone else now.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on March 12, 2011, 09:55:58 AM
POD sefaeria and gramma dishes.  They both summed up my feelings beautifully.

Perhaps she took her husband with her because she was worried you might try and have it out with her?  I think she realises that she has been out of line but is not willing to admit it nor apologise for it and wanted to meet in the hope that she could just smooth over it without mention.  Obviously we know that isn't going to work.

You admit Samgirl2 that the relationship has changed.  It probably won't ever go back to how it was but you seem ok with that. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Dindrane on March 12, 2011, 10:41:42 AM
At this point, you tried.

I would tell yourself right now that you aren't ever going to know the whys and wherefores of the past few weeks/months.  Even if you get some sort of explanation later, you are probably never going to truly understand why she has behaved this way.  So now would be the time to stop expecting that you will ever have any sort of explanation.

And in addition to that, I would stop thinking of this woman as your friend.  She was your friend, but she isn't now, and it has nothing to do with you.  Friendship is something that requires two active participants, and she hasn't been actively participating in weeks.  Therefore, don't waste your time trying to actively participate in a friendship that doesn't actually exist anymore.

You have other people in your life who I am sure would benefit and appreciate the time and energy you could devote to your relationships with them.  Nothing good comes from using up time or energy on people who communicate quite clearly that they don't particularly want it, so don't.

Also remember: you don't have to dislike or hate or whatever this woman and her husband.  Ultimately, what you ought to shoot for is indifference.  You can be largely indifferent to them as people while still hoping (in a sort of general and vague way) that their lives work out for them, and being happy (again, in a sort of general way) when things do.  What makes it indifference is that you aren't actively involved in any of that -- you only think about it when someone or something else brings it to your attention -- and that you don't particularly care if you never actually hear about any of it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 12, 2011, 12:14:35 PM
Perhaps she took her husband with her because she was worried you might try and have it out with her?  I think she realises that she has been out of line but is not willing to admit it nor apologise for it and wanted to meet in the hope that she could just smooth over it without mention.
I think this is the most reasonable explanation. I agree with others, you are now acquaintances with her. You will probably never get more discussion from her about this. You can be certain it was HER, not you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 12, 2011, 06:06:50 PM
Quote
She is someone I care about but not someone I feel close to or feel an obligation towards anymore. If they continue to come to church after the baby is born then I will of course run into them so they are not out of my life, and I will say hello and tell them the baby is lovely, but until she changes her behaviour I really can't do more than that, as much as i may want to.


I'm surprised you still want to.  After everything that has happened, especially her indifference and lack of acknowledgment of her past behaviour, do you really think her behaviour will change in the future?  I am concerned, by what you wrote above, that if she came running up to you like old times, apologized and gave you a hug, you would step back into the friendship, which ultimately would be on her terms.  

This woman isn't your friend.  It is time to move on and remain a cool distance.  Say hello if you see her at church, but if she emails asking for other coffee dates, asks any favours et al, I would just ignore the messages.  

You don't owe her anything.  I really think you will feel much better if you let her and the friendship go.  It will actually be a gift to yourself.

edited to correct punctuation.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Winterlight on March 12, 2011, 06:12:04 PM
At least you know you tried, and she's not interested. Her loss. Drop her down to "someone I used to know" and leave it at that.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: SingMeAway on March 12, 2011, 09:18:33 PM
I'm sorry it turned out this way for you. I think P-p-p-penguin is right and the husband was there as a buffer so she wouldn't be forced into any uncomfortable conversations wherein she would have to justify her ridiculous behaviour. It's sad to say, but it sounds like she does need to be relegated to the "someone I used to know" category.

I would not be surprised, however, to hear in a few months after the baby shows up how she's looking around for babysitting, support, etc... Maybe, maybe, maybe, but not holding my breath, she will have a flash of realization at some point and actually apologize, but she may also turn out to be one of those people who get pregnant/have a baby and dump all their old friends for the new pregnant or just-had-kids friends. Very sad.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: gramma dishes on March 12, 2011, 09:27:21 PM
I think P-p-p-penguin is right and the husband was there as a buffer so she wouldn't be forced into any uncomfortable conversations ....

Yes.  But there is one additional possibility.  It may be that her husband insisted upon accompanying her to be sure that his wife didn't say/reveal anything that he didn't want her to.

Probably not, but it IS possible.  :-\
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sammycat on March 12, 2011, 09:29:49 PM
I think she realises that she has been out of line but is not willing to admit it nor apologise for it and wanted to meet in the hope that she could just smooth over it without mention.  Obviously we know that isn't going to work.

I'm going through a similar situation myself (different circumstances) where a once close friendship has been reduced to basically an acquaintanceship, and it's only at that "high" a level because our children are best friends.

These situations hurt and are puzzling at first.  It's easy to wonder what did *I* do wrong?  But in these situations it's not you, it's them.  For whatever reason, consciously or subconsciously, they have decided to act this way.  I think on some level they realise they have done the wrong thing, but when it suits them to want things to be the same as they were before they try to act as though nothing has happened/is wrong.  But by then the damage is done and they can't have their cake and eat it too.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: LifeOnPluto on March 13, 2011, 04:43:54 AM

Perhaps she took her husband with her because she was worried you might try and have it out with her?  I think she realises that she has been out of line but is not willing to admit it nor apologise for it and wanted to meet in the hope that she could just smooth over it without mention.  Obviously we know that isn't going to work.


This was my first thought. She deliberately brought her husband along, so that you'd be forced to keep the conversation light and general.

If you had raised the issue (eg, "Friend, I feel hurt at the way you've been treating me lately" etc) I'm willing to bet her husband would have very firmly shut you down. As you said, they were a "unit" and I think they would have vehemently united against you in stating that they had done nothing wrong, and the problem was entirely with YOU.

As PPs have said, there's probably nothing much you can really do now. Maybe you could send her one final email stating "Friend, I was hoping to have seen you alone yesterday at coffee. There's been something on my mind I wanted to talk to you about. I feel really hurt at the way you've been treating me lately..." etc. However, be prepared for the fact that she'll either ignore it, or shoot back an angry response...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 13, 2011, 05:41:28 AM
OP here.

Life on Pluto - I am thinking about doing what you say.  I am ok with the fact we are no longer friends, she has made it clear she is not the person I knew and there iis too much water under the bridge for me now.

However, because we didn't talk properly yesterday and the issue was not mentioned I am very tempted to send one last email/note, just to say:

- this is how I feel, I had hoped to discuss it yesterday but when you brought your husband there was not the opportunity.
 -It seems like you have moved on. I want you to know that I wish you well with the baby, that the baby was not the cause of all this, even though you seemed to think I was not happy for you etc, but I have found it very hard to understand why someone who i spoke to so often can suddenly go weeks with out speaking to me, accuse me of the things you did, ignore me in the street and then pretend like everything is fine.
- I have always valued your friendship, and I still value what we had, but I don't really know if I can go back to how things were before.  I don't think you have been treating me very much like a friend recently, and I am not sure how to trust you again.
 - If you ever want to talk about it you know where I am and I will listen. If you have moved on then there is no need to reply to this. Just know that I wish you the best.

I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending without this awkwardness or the chance of running into them again at church and wondering how to act. I feel like this would be closure for both of us maybe?

If not, then I won't do it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 13, 2011, 08:23:48 AM
Quote
She is someone I care about but not someone I feel close to or feel an obligation towards anymore. If they continue to come to church after the baby is born then I will of course run into them so they are not out of my life, and I will say hello and tell them the baby is lovely, but until she changes her behaviour I really can't do more than that, as much as i may want to.


I'm surprised you still want to.  After everything that has happened, especially her indifference and lack of acknowledgment of her past behaviour, do you really think her behaviour will change in the future?  I am concerned, by what you wrote above, that if she came running up to you like old times, apologized and gave you a hug, you would step back into the friendship, which ultimately would be on her terms.  

This woman isn't your friend.  It is time to move on and remain a cool distance.  Say hello if you see her at church, but if she emails asking for other coffee dates, asks any favours et al, I would just ignore the messages.  

You don't owe her anything.  I really think you will feel much better if you let her and the friendship go.  It will actually be a gift to yourself.

edited to correct punctuation.


Thanks Sparksals

I guess I just find it hard not to give people a chance, but I would never just let them off and go back to the way things were. If she did come and apologised etc I would consider being more than nodding acquaintances and working on some sort of friendship but would I ever get close to considering her my best friend again? No way.

Also, she seems so set in her opinion that it's my fault somehow that it's hard not to want to make my position clear. I tried, when I replied to her accusatory email, but I think I was too nice and all she said was 'let's draw a line under it'.   I want her to know that her behaviour was unacceptable and that is why I will no longer reach out to her. She didn't give me a chance to bring it up yesterday, intentionally I suspect, I have been left hanging while she holds all the cards.

I know I should just forget about it but it's easier said than done :)

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: LadyL on March 13, 2011, 10:24:05 AM

I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending without this awkwardness or the chance of running into them again at church and wondering how to act. I feel like this would be closure for both of us maybe?

If not, then I won't do it.


I think it's fair to let them know where you stand. But I would keep it very short and simple, because you are not opening a discussion, you are stating your feelings. You don't owe her every detail of why you feel how you do - she's shown time and time again that she doesn't get it anyway. I would say something like:

"I was hoping that when we got coffee we could address your erratic and hurtful behavior towards me in the last few months. I felt by including your husband you shut down that discussion. I see that you do not feel the need to apologize for how you have acted towards me. Because of that I no longer wish to have a relationship beyond "casual acquaintance" with you. I hope we can treat each other civilly and politely, but I also need you to know that you've damaged our friendship beyond repair."

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Dindrane on March 13, 2011, 11:53:13 AM
Honestly, at this point, I have a feeling that additional contact would not accomplish anything positive.  There are two things you could be hoping for with it: having her finally acknowledge what you've said all along, and granting yourself extra closure.

But really, the chances of either of those things happening because of an email where you lay it all out are pretty slim.  It probably isn't going to accomplish anything positive with her -- if she reacts at all, it will probably be with defensiveness.  It probably isn't going to make you feel better, either, since her reaction is most likely going to be ignoring it completely or more of what she's already said.

I think you would be better served just trying to let it go.  You've given her a lot of chances, and you've tried everything a reasonable person can do to preserve the friendship.  At some point, you have to accept that you can't change her behavior, and I think you'll be happier if you work on accepting that now.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: gramma dishes on March 13, 2011, 12:03:43 PM
Honestly, at this point, I have a feeling that additional contact would not accomplish anything positive.  There are two things you could be hoping for with it: having her finally acknowledge what you've said all along, and granting yourself extra closure.

But really, the chances of either of those things happening because of an email where you lay it all out are pretty slim.  It probably isn't going to accomplish anything positive with her -- if she reacts at all, it will probably be with defensiveness.  It probably isn't going to make you feel better, either, since her reaction is most likely going to be ignoring it completely or more of what she's already said.

I think you would be better served just trying to let it go.  You've given her a lot of chances, and you've tried everything a reasonable person can do to preserve the friendship.  At some point, you have to accept that you can't change her behavior, and I think you'll be happier if you work on accepting that now.

I totally agree with Dindrane's entire post.  I would not make any attempt to continue additional contact with her.  Be "nice" (cooly polite), but not friendly if you see her again. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: DangerMouth on March 13, 2011, 12:16:30 PM
Quote
I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending without this awkwardness or the chance of running into them again at church and wondering how to act. I feel like this would be closure for both of us maybe?

If not, then I won't do it.

Well, you can't know if it would be closure for her (and from what it sounds like, she's already had her closure). And I'm not sure that putting your heart on your sleeve like that will make you feel any less awkward in the future, KWIM? Sometimes it's better to walk away with your dignity intact, even if you haven't had a chance to set the record straight.

But if you think this is something you need to do for yourself, then do it. Just be sure that you can live with getting no reaction at all, or a defensive reaction, or an angry one (any of these things seems possible).
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: LadyL on March 13, 2011, 12:18:22 PM
Quote
I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending without this awkwardness or the chance of running into them again at church and wondering how to act. I feel like this would be closure for both of us maybe?

If not, then I won't do it.

Well, you can't know if it would be closure for her (and from what it sounds like, she's already had her closure). And I'm not sure that putting your heart on your sleeve like that will make you feel any less awkward in the future, KWIM? Sometimes it's better to walk away with your dignity intact, even if you haven't had a chance to set the record straight.

But if you think this is something you need to do for yourself, then do it. Just be sure that you can live with getting no reaction at all, or a defensive reaction, or an angry one (any of these things seems possible).

POD.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 13, 2011, 01:20:29 PM
Quote
I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending... I feel like this would be closure for both of us
Well, you can't know if it would be closure for her (and from what it sounds like, she's already had her closure)...  putting your heart on your sleeve like that will NOT make you feel less awkward in the future..  Sometimes it's better to walk away with your dignity intact... But if you think this is something you need to do for yourself, then do it. Just be sure that you can live with getting no reaction at all, or a defensive reaction, or an angry one (any of these things seems possible).
POD DangerMouth with a little editing in the middle from me. If you feel like you need to express yourself one more time, then write out everything you want to say - and then tear it up. Don't send it. She has demonstrated she has moved on, and from what you have described so far, I do not think any reaction from her would be what you want.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 13, 2011, 01:22:15 PM
OP here.

Life on Pluto - I am thinking about doing what you say.  I am ok with the fact we are no longer friends, she has made it clear she is not the person I knew and there iis too much water under the bridge for me now.

However, because we didn't talk properly yesterday and the issue was not mentioned I am very tempted to send one last email/note, just to say:

- this is how I feel, I had hoped to discuss it yesterday but when you brought your husband there was not the opportunity.
 -It seems like you have moved on. I want you to know that I wish you well with the baby, that the baby was not the cause of all this, even though you seemed to think I was not happy for you etc, but I have found it very hard to understand why someone who i spoke to so often can suddenly go weeks with out speaking to me, accuse me of the things you did, ignore me in the street and then pretend like everything is fine.
- I have always valued your friendship, and I still value what we had, but I don't really know if I can go back to how things were before.  I don't think you have been treating me very much like a friend recently, and I am not sure how to trust you again.
 - If you ever want to talk about it you know where I am and I will listen. If you have moved on then there is no need to reply to this. Just know that I wish you the best.

I just really want her to know that it's not ok and give it an ending without this awkwardness or the chance of running into them again at church and wondering how to act. I feel like this would be closure for both of us maybe?

If not, then I won't do it.


I don't think you should send her anything.  She doesn't deserve the too kind words above.  What I do suggest you do is write a letter to her, get everything out you need to, but don't send it.   I don't see sending her an email will accomplish anything.  What if she sends a nasty response back?  What if she ignores it?  It will continue to bug you.  I don't think she deserves for you to give her closure.  You deserve closure for yourself. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 13, 2011, 01:29:11 PM
Quote
She is someone I care about but not someone I feel close to or feel an obligation towards anymore. If they continue to come to church after the baby is born then I will of course run into them so they are not out of my life, and I will say hello and tell them the baby is lovely, but until she changes her behaviour I really can't do more than that, as much as i may want to.


I'm surprised you still want to.  After everything that has happened, especially her indifference and lack of acknowledgment of her past behaviour, do you really think her behaviour will change in the future?  I am concerned, by what you wrote above, that if she came running up to you like old times, apologized and gave you a hug, you would step back into the friendship, which ultimately would be on her terms.  

This woman isn't your friend.  It is time to move on and remain a cool distance.  Say hello if you see her at church, but if she emails asking for other coffee dates, asks any favours et al, I would just ignore the messages.  

You don't owe her anything.  I really think you will feel much better if you let her and the friendship go.  It will actually be a gift to yourself.

edited to correct punctuation.


Thanks Sparksals

I guess I just find it hard not to give people a chance, but I would never just let them off and go back to the way things were. If she did come and apologised etc I would consider being more than nodding acquaintances and working on some sort of friendship but would I ever get close to considering her my best friend again? No way.

Also, she seems so set in her opinion that it's my fault somehow that it's hard not to want to make my position clear. I tried, when I replied to her accusatory email, but I think I was too nice and all she said was 'let's draw a line under it'.   I want her to know that her behaviour was unacceptable and that is why I will no longer reach out to her. She didn't give me a chance to bring it up yesterday, intentionally I suspect, I have been left hanging while she holds all the cards.

I know I should just forget about it but it's easier said than done :)



You have given her countless chances and every.single.time she has stepped all over you and flicked you away like a pesky bug.  You are not a pesky bug, but she certainly has treated you as such.

I understand wanting to make your position clear.  The problem is, she will not hear it.  She will not listen.  She is so set in her ways, that whatever matters to you means absolutely nothing to her.    She does not deserve for you to reach out to her.  You were far too nice and while being nice and trying to give her chance after chance, YOU are the one getting hurt.  Do you think she is hurting like you are?  The fact she intentionally brought her husband along so it would not be discussed would have been the end of it for me.  

You are mourning the loss of this friendship.  Completely normal and understandable.  I think this last meeting can be a stepping stone for you to walk away and move on.  

My suggestion is to not initiate any contact and do not respond if she contacts you.  If you see her at church or elsewhere, a polite nod and go on your way.  No conversations.  

The more you let her come to you solely on her terms, the more you are going to go through everything in your head.  You can switch this around to be on YOUR terms.  If she knows you will always be there for her to come to, you are going to get more angry and confused.  Seize control of the situation for yourself so she can't do this to you anymore.  All her actions are extremely toxic and you don't need someone like this in your life.  She doesn't deserve your friendship.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 13, 2011, 01:30:41 PM
Honestly, at this point, I have a feeling that additional contact would not accomplish anything positive.  There are two things you could be hoping for with it: having her finally acknowledge what you've said all along, and granting yourself extra closure.

But really, the chances of either of those things happening because of an email where you lay it all out are pretty slim.  It probably isn't going to accomplish anything positive with her -- if she reacts at all, it will probably be with defensiveness.  It probably isn't going to make you feel better, either, since her reaction is most likely going to be ignoring it completely or more of what she's already said.

I think you would be better served just trying to let it go.  You've given her a lot of chances, and you've tried everything a reasonable person can do to preserve the friendship.  At some point, you have to accept that you can't change her behavior, and I think you'll be happier if you work on accepting that now.

THIS.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Winterlight on March 13, 2011, 02:17:10 PM
Also, she seems so set in her opinion that it's my fault somehow that it's hard not to want to make my position clear. I tried, when I replied to her accusatory email, but I think I was too nice and all she said was 'let's draw a line under it'.   I want her to know that her behaviour was unacceptable and that is why I will no longer reach out to her. She didn't give me a chance to bring it up yesterday, intentionally I suspect, I have been left hanging while she holds all the cards.

She doesn't care what your position is. I think trying to reiterate it would waste your time. JoyinVirginia's idea of a letter you shred might be useful for you to close things out, but contacting her again isn't really helpful for you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 13, 2011, 05:46:45 PM
Thanks everyone. I have been out of the house for a few hours and not seen the computer but had come to the same conclusion as you guys and reading your posts just now has just reinforced it.

I sat down and wrote a letter earlier today and then did indeed rip it up. It was cathartic for me to get all my thoughts out on paper and get things straight in my head that it really was not my fault. But you are right, I have tried to talk to her before and she didn't take it on board, she sure as hell won't now.

Seeking her understanding will do no good and i have tried to console and understand her. It was not reciprocated but I tried, and that's what matters.  Demanding she see my point of view will never accomplish anything because she has made it clear she can't/won't

Also, completely agree that the fact she brought her husband along meant she had no intention of talking things over with me.  I read a great quote recently that said that apologies, even if you were not totally sure who was wrong, meant that you put your friendship above your own ego. I think it's clear our friendship is waaaaayy below her ego right now.

I spoke to another friend from church this evening, M.  She knows what's been happening because i confided in her a few weeks ago. She asked if anything had changed so I told her all about yesterday's meetup.  She agrees that there is no more we can do. M and her husband have also tried to reach out to this couple and have got nowhere and also believe that all their reasons for not being around are simply excuses and a symptom of a bigger problem. We have all three tried to help them but if she was not even willing to talk to me one to one yesterday there is really nothing more we can do apart from pray for them and be civil if we see them.  Challenging them will just rile them and cause us more worry.  M's husband also added that he was completely puzzled as to why they would push everyone away so completely, even their best friends, at a time when most people want people around, and that the way they were behaving gave us no choice but to leave them to it but be open if they ever decided to return. He agreed that their accusation had no foundation either and couldn't believe they had the nerve to say that and then try to pretend like everything was fine.

So, I feel like I have closure now anyway, and i have back up from you guys and people who know this couple that I've done all I can do, they are treating me and others really badly and that it is time to walk away.

I will let you know if we ever find out what happened, but it may be sometime!!

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Pinky830 on March 13, 2011, 08:24:02 PM
Samgirl, (((hugs))). I am so grieved and frustrated on your behalf. I had someone I considered a very dear friend who, though nothing as dramatic as this happened, at some point decided I was just an acquaintance or former friend. Many, many tears were shed over it until I finally just had to move on. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: blarg314 on March 13, 2011, 10:14:30 PM

It sounds like you've got a good solution.

In general, I find the concept of closure is over-rated, at least when it is applied in the "I want answers" sense.  You can't force someone else to explain why they behaved the way they did, and you can't make them acknowledge that they behaved badly, or feel sorry, or apologize.

Sometimes you just have to accept that things have changed, you've done your best but it didn't work, and move on with things.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: kokopellimom on March 13, 2011, 10:44:28 PM
I'm late to this thread, and I must admit that I skimmed it a bit. It's possible that someone may have already brought up this possibility. If so, sorry for skimming!

It sounds like this entire circle of friends is based in your church, correct? Could it be possible that your friend and her husband have had a change of heart in their religious beliefs? Could they be pulling away from your church as a whole? I ask because my mother's church recently changed ministers. The former minister was quite liberal, the new minister is very conservative, and there have been quite a few people who have either left the church or pulled WAY back on their participation, without broadcasting their reasons.

I realize this suggestion is probably a long shot. It just seems so weird for them both to suddenly withdraw so completely, and something like wanting to back away from the church might explain it.

I'm sorry, either way, that you lost a friend like that. It's every bit as painful as a breakup, and yet harder to acknowledge it as a loss somehow. ((SamGirl))
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: Lynda_34 on March 14, 2011, 10:56:49 PM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
??? Wrong thread?

ARGH! YES!

How does this happen? Am I just careless with back buttons or what?

Ok where is that thread? :D It sounds interesting. ;) Oh look a bunny? ::)Wait that's a pagan symbol for the Easter  season. >:D Letrs put Crazy Lynda back in the padded pet carrier. ;D
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought??
Post by: sparksals on March 14, 2011, 11:11:43 PM
I think you need to look at it like this - if you gave someone a small decoration that mentioned meditation, how would you like someone to approach telling you that it was offensive to them, because they believed it to be non-Christian? Figure that out, and use that approach.
??? Wrong thread?

ARGH! YES!

How does this happen? Am I just careless with back buttons or what?

Ok where is that thread? :D It sounds interesting. ;) Oh look a bunny? ::)Wait that's a pagan symbol for the Easter  season. >:D Letrs put Crazy Lynda back in the padded pet carrier. ;D

 ???
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 14, 2011, 11:57:03 PM
OP, I am glad you have friend M and her DH to talk to about this. Sounds like you all have come to the same conclusion. maybe one day you will get some kind of further explanation, but probably not. You can rest assured you did all you could.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 15, 2011, 05:00:54 AM
Samgirl, (((hugs))). I am so grieved and frustrated on your behalf. I had someone I considered a very dear friend who, though nothing as dramatic as this happened, at some point decided I was just an acquaintance or former friend. Many, many tears were shed over it until I finally just had to move on. I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

Thanks so much. She was probably the person I trusted most outside of my family and who knew the most about me and at first, when she announced the pregnancy and I realised how long they'd kept it a secret and then she rejected my offers for help or to meet up, yes, I did shed many tears because it felt like everything I thought I could be sure of was shaken.

Then I thought I was selfish and maybe it was just taking time for them to adjust and they were busy and I let it go for a bit. But ignoring/blanking me and then the things she accused me of I took it really really personally and there were more tears. It's like a break-up or something!

Now of course I can see that it wasn't personal. I bore the brunt of it because we had the closest relationship, but they have not been to anything, nor responded with more than the bare minimum to anyone in our wide circle of friends.

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 15, 2011, 07:29:01 AM
I'm late to this thread, and I must admit that I skimmed it a bit. It's possible that someone may have already brought up this possibility. If so, sorry for skimming!

It sounds like this entire circle of friends is based in your church, correct? Could it be possible that your friend and her husband have had a change of heart in their religious beliefs? Could they be pulling away from your church as a whole? I ask because my mother's church recently changed ministers. The former minister was quite liberal, the new minister is very conservative, and there have been quite a few people who have either left the church or pulled WAY back on their participation, without broadcasting their reasons.

I realize this suggestion is probably a long shot. It just seems so weird for them both to suddenly withdraw so completely, and something like wanting to back away from the church might explain it.

I'm sorry, either way, that you lost a friend like that. It's every bit as painful as a breakup, and yet harder to acknowledge it as a loss somehow. ((SamGirl)

It could be that.  In our group everyone's social life is pretty much based around friends from church. We go to the same early evening service on sundays and go to the pub for a quick drink afterwards. We are in small home groups together which meet once a week for chatting/discussing what's going on in our lives, bible study and prayer - we are split between 3 groups as there are so many of us, and so once a month we do a social activity with everyone.  Quite a few of us, including pregnant friend's husband, are in the worship bands so have practice sessions together sometimes. Within the circle their are different smaller groups of friends who meet up randomly for coffee/shopping/dinner/cinema etc.

People have other friends as well  but we've all moved to the area in the last 3-4 years and became close through church and mutual interests. This couple have freely admitted they don't have any friends outside of our cicle, aside from work colleagues but that is not the same.

This couple have always been heavily involved in the church and even set up and lead one of the home groups (which I am in) so it is really strange for them suddenly to drop everything.  Someone suggested that they just have new friends now, ones with babies on the way or young families and that's why we don't see them. But then what about church? Unless they are not coming because they don't want to see us, which would be weird to avoid an entire group, then it very well could be a faith issue. I know for a few weeks they had been going to the family service instead, without mentioning anything to us, we just thought they weren't around, but I found out from someone who goes to that service that it only lasted a few weeks and they haven't been there in ages now either.

Nothing at the church has changed that would obviously cause them to leave and none of us have changed but it may they have their own reasons.

I don't think we will ever know!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Lynda_34 on March 16, 2011, 12:33:12 AM
Up thread someone mentioned that husband came for coffee as a control issue.  I'd continue to be distant but friendly.  You really don't know their dynamics and he could be tryring to isolate her.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Danika on March 16, 2011, 04:13:28 AM




Hello all. I'm new and I've read this entire thread this evening.

Samgirl2, I'm so sorry about the loss of your friendship. I think you've gotten some great support and advice here. I've been in similar situations a few times, and it really made me wonder if my former friend ever viewed our friendship as highly as I had, or if I'd been mistaken.

I definitely believe that your friend knowingly pushed you away. I definitely believe that she brought her husband to coffee in order to prevent herself from addressing her reasons. Whether she asked her husband to come in order to avoid the topic, or he imposed himself in order to prevent it, I don't know.

I'm certain that her pregnancy is what caused the strange behavior. I strongly suspect that despite her comments, it was unintended. I say this because I've had a few friends have this happen to them and they behaved similarly in that they avoided the topic until late in their pregnancies. The most extreme case of this was the first one, when we were 16. She only spoke to me by phone for 8 months, and never revealed that she was pregnant. We went to different schools and none of our mutual friends had seen her in person either. When she finally told me that she was going to have a baby any day now, I told her "congratulations" and did my best to be excited and supportive. She told me that she was happy that I had said congratulations because everyone else they knew (most of her family friends were from church, too) sounded sad, instead. She planned to continue to date her boyfriend, the father of the child. Shortly after that, the last conversation I had with her, she told me that he disappeared. Just moved and didn't leave a forwarding address. After that, I didn't hear from her for 6 years, even though I called and wrote. Out of the blue, I got an invitation to her wedding (FWIW, not to the father of the child). I imagine that all along, she had been embarrassed and was avoiding me and our other friends. She probably felt that she didn't want to hear about how the rest of us were off at university, flirting, partying, and living free spirited lifestyles.


Trimmed

Could it be possible that your friend and her husband have had a change of heart in their religious beliefs? Could they be pulling away from your church as a whole?

I think kokopellimom brings up an interesting point here. A small part of me wonders if all your pregnant friend's comments about home renovation and prams are not true. Maybe she and her husband plan to give the baby up for adoption and don't feel like they can tell the rest of their existing friends that. Maybe they would rather not have baby showers, and discussions about future plans. And that they will just find new friends after the baby is born. Or they're not crossing that bridge until they come to it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 16, 2011, 06:04:41 AM
I agree that pregnancy can cause a lot of changes in a person's life--particularly the first one.
 
But, there are some things in what I have read here that would bug the heck out of me if I were the pregnant friend.
 
First of all, even though everyone offered congratulations upon finding out about the woman's pregnancy, the OP keeps reiterating how they kept it a secret for 5 months.
 
I don't know that any part of someone's pregnancy is anyone else's business, no matter how close they are as friends.
Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months. Then when friends try to ask if they want help or to congratulate them and talk baby stuff they shut us all down. And then say no one is happy for them and no one is offering to help. It seems a little odd? Also, pregnant friend does not know that everyone thinks this.
 
And the statements about how they have backed off of a lot of their leadership roles in the church not being OK somehow.
It is ok for them to do that and I have asked if they want to do that, and so has a member of the church leadership, because it would be totally normal. I also said, tyring to be a supportive friend, that I knew their priorities would change now but we hoped they'd still come when they could etc. They both said they didn't want to give up, husband planned to carry on with music etc, and she accused me by email of trying to push them out. Yet they have not been to a single thing in a very long time. It is fine and expected that they do not have the time or energy to commit to leadership stuff, but not to even attend a 1 hour or so service and sit in the congregation once in a while? Their faith was really important to them which is why the fact they've stopped coming completely, when if they wanted to avoid all of us they could go to a different service - there are three on a sunday - is puzzling. It seems like they can't admit to themslevs that things have changed.
 

But, overall, I would feel really uncomfortable knowing that everyone is talking about the "situation."
 How would they know, they have not seen or spoken to us.

Part of being a friend is letting someone be who they are and not just who you expect them to be or who you need them to be.
I agree, but when someone's personality does a complete 180 I think friends would be concerned
 
Obviously, her pregnancy has changed her life in ways that she doesn't have the time or attention to give to the OP or others from the church.  And indeed, pulling back from leadership responsibilities at a time like this is something that is usually expected.

People change as they go through life.  If there are people around who can't handle that, I can well understand the woman's pulling away. In general I agree with you, but she/they pulled away before even giving us a chance, that is why I found it hard and why I know other friends are confused.
 
.......
 
But, in this case, it seemed to me that there were just so many expectations on this couple--they were supposed to announce their pregnancy earlier, she was not allowed to have a small rant about how she felt irrational though it may have been, then that led to people talking about how something was going on, etc, etc, etc.
The only expectations on this couple were that we were friends. It is up to them when they announce their pregnancy and everyone congratulated them and felt it was a little unusual to wait so long but thought hey, it's up to them. However I don't think expecting that they may want to mention it now an again now that people know, or to have people be interested is unusual? At first people tried to ask how she was, just general stuff, and she always shut them down.  Her rant was not a small one and was completely unfounded. I could have gone off on her but I didn't. I wrote very carefully and apologetically and tried to reach out to her and be understanding and told her I was around if she ever needed me. I didn't demand she be at anything or meet up with me, just tried to say I understood, was her friend and to let me know if she needed anything. She shut it down with 'thanks for your email, lets draw a line under this' and the following day walked away from me in the street hoping I hadn't seen her..
 
I wouldn't want to go back to that.  I would wonder why people couldn't just leave me be and accept me for who I am and trust that the decisions I make in regards to when I reveal a pregnancy or chose to continue in a position at church.
But they don't know what they would be going to. They weren't around for 5 months because they were keeping the pregnancy quiet. We get, that's not an issue, but since they announced it, they still haven't been around and have been avoiding any contact - even email or text which is totally totally out of character. The only time anyone has spoken to them it has been to try to reach and  say hi and enquire how they're doing and pregnant friend has given the bare minimum response.. I don't see how they would think there was a major situation to avoid, unless they have a major situation they don't want us to know about and so are avoiding us because of that.

Bold bits by OP
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: kokopellimom on March 16, 2011, 08:58:29 AM
I don't see how they would think there was a major situation to avoid, unless they have a major situation they don't want us to know about and so are avoiding us because of that.

One other thing occurred to me as well. (whited out because it is a sensitive topic) My cousin and his wife had a baby a couple of years ago, and he had a syndrome that was incompatible with life, which they knew about from early in the pregnancy. He lived less than an hour after birth. It was hard for Cousin and Wife to deal with the knowledge that their pregnancy would have a very sad outcome, and they withdrew and isolated a lot from friends, even as they leaned on family. Cousin said that he couldn't deal with public sympathy without breaking down, and he wasn't comfortable showing those emotions to anyone but family.

I hope so much that your friends aren't facing something like that, but it could be a possibility. I'd keep the distance she seems to want, but keep my mind open. It may be that she'll need her friends later, but can't face them right now.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 16, 2011, 11:02:01 AM
OP
Quote
Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months. Then when friends try to ask if they want help or to congratulate them and talk baby stuff they shut us all down. And then say no one is happy for them and no one is offering to help. It seems a little odd? Also, pregnant friend does not know that everyone thinks this.

I think AQ does have a point.  From what you wrote above, OP, it does sound like you expected to be notified earlier.  While you were close friends, I don't see anything wrong with them not telling close friends of the pg.  Even though she confided in you in the past, doesn't mean she must continue to do so.  That is entirely their choice.  However, mixed with everything else, their strange behaviour, her lash outs etc,. you definitely are justified in your confused and hurt feelings.
 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Danika on March 16, 2011, 06:13:50 PM
I didn't get the impression that OP expected to be notified earlier than she was. Just that the couple avoided people for those five months and that that was the weird part. In my first pregnancy, I accepted a new job offer the week that I found out I was pregnant. Normally, if I'd been at a company for a while, I would have told them at about 3 months pregnant, but because I didn't know these coworkers or how the boss would feel about me having to go on maternity leave within less than a year of starting there, I decided to not tell them for as long as I could. So, I wore baggy clothes and no one knew or suspected that I was pregnant until I told them at 6 1/2 months. But my behavior never changed. I was always friendly and professional, never standoffish and distant. I get the impression that that's what OP was focused on - the behavior, not the "secret" itself. That her friends were pulling away from everyone, and that it seems to be related to the pregnancy. But not that she or others were owed any information sooner.

I find myself agreeing with kokopellimom again in the whited out comments in post 165. I respect and understand an expectant family in that position withdrawing and avoiding addressing that issue or showing emotions to friends. But I would hope that the expecting couple would still tell friends "We have some things going on in our lives. We do not want to share or discuss them. Please, accept our apologies that we will be distant. We do not intend you any ill will" rather than just dodging them and *blaming* them. But I have fortunately never been in that position, so I can't say how they should be acting. Just how I would hope they would act, if that were the case.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 16, 2011, 06:24:58 PM
Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:
Quote
Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 16, 2011, 06:25:19 PM
I didn't get the impression that OP expected to be notified earlier than she was. Just that the couple avoided people for those five months and that that was the weird part. In my first pregnancy, I accepted a new job offer the week that I found out I was pregnant. Normally, if I'd been at a company for a while, I would have told them at about 3 months pregnant, but because I didn't know these coworkers or how the boss would feel about me having to go on maternity leave within less than a year of starting there, I decided to not tell them for as long as I could. So, I wore baggy clothes and no one knew or suspected that I was pregnant until I told them at 6 1/2 months. But my behavior never changed. I was always friendly and professional, never standoffish and distant. I get the impression that that's what OP was focused on - the behavior, not the "secret" itself. That her friends were pulling away from everyone, and that it seems to be related to the pregnancy. But not that she or others were owed any information sooner.

I find myself agreeing with kokopellimom again in the whited out comments in post 165. I respect and understand an expectant family in that position withdrawing and avoiding addressing that issue or showing emotions to friends. But I would hope that the expecting couple would still tell friends "We have some things going on in our lives. We do not want to share or discuss them. Please, accept our apologies that we will be distant. We do not intend you any ill will" rather than just dodging them and *blaming* them. But I have fortunately never been in that position, so I can't say how they should be acting. Just how I would hope they would act, if that were the case.

Yes this is it exactly!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 16, 2011, 06:29:23 PM
Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:
Quote
Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.

Just to clarify. I didn't expect to be told earlier, until they said other people already knew, then I felt that disappointed that I wasn't as close a friend as I had thought and they didn't think we deserved to know as much as coworkers etc. Also people generally tell at around 3 months (I know it's not a rule and people can do what they like) but it just seemed odd that they would wait that long (5 months) with friends.  That coupled with their distance confused me. I don't mean to sound whiney or like they should have said by a set date. Sorry for the confusion :-)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: evely28 on March 16, 2011, 06:46:50 PM
The part that jumps out at me is the OP saying her friend was unhappy that people were not offering 'help'. What help do you need when you announce a pregnancy? Yes, it is up to the expectant couple to announce the news when they see fit, however letting  someone know you expect their help is pretty passive aggressive. Again, what help do you need? Is the meanings of well wish'es over looked because you think well wish'es should accompany offers of help?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: sparksals on March 16, 2011, 07:36:22 PM
Well, it does sound a bit like the OP expected to be told earlier:
Quote
Keeping it secret for 5 months in of itself is not the issue, it's the fact they kept it from their closest friends, people they usually confide in, but said they told coworkers and entire family at 3 months.

Just to clarify. I didn't expect to be told earlier, until they said other people already knew, then I felt that disappointed that I wasn't as close a friend as I had thought and they didn't think we deserved to know as much as coworkers etc. Also people generally tell at around 3 months (I know it's not a rule and people can do what they like) but it just seemed odd that they would wait that long (5 months) with friends.  That coupled with their distance confused me. I don't mean to sound whiney or like they should have said by a set date. Sorry for the confusion :-)

Oh... that makes more sense!  Thanks for clarifying!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #128
Post by: Hawkwatcher on March 16, 2011, 10:03:11 PM
The part that jumps out at me is the OP saying her friend was unhappy that people were not offering 'help'. What help do you need when you announce a pregnancy? Yes, it is up to the expectant couple to announce the news when they see fit, however letting  someone know you expect their help is pretty passive aggressive. Again, what help do you need? Is the meanings of well wish'es over looked because you think well wish'es should accompany offers of help?


Samgirl2's friend initially rejected offers of help and claimed that they had family was helping them.  She then accused her friends including the OP of not offering to help.  She also accused the OP of not being happy for her.  I don't blame the Samgirl2 for being confused.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 18, 2011, 09:29:24 AM
UPDATE

Just had two emails from pregnant friend. Sounds back to normal in the first, then frustrating in the second.

1st:
So we had our usual weekly church group at my house on Weds. Pregnant friend and husband officially lead but as you know, not attended in absolute ages so we've been arranging it amongst ourselves.  So, because I'd hosted this week I sent out the usual reminder email the next day (yesterday) about where we were going to be meeting the following week, who was leading, and any points to remember. I copied this couple into the email out of courtesy and I just added a basic PS that we hoped they and the bump were doing ok. Didn't expect a response in the slightest.

She has just replied with
Hi there
Thanks so much! We are good thanks. Bump getting bigger and baby wriggling a lot but all good!
Hope all is well with you and that you have some good news on the job front soon.
xx


So, sounds like her old self which is great and it doesn't seem to expect a reply which is fine with me. However I don't want to be rude, but  I can't pretend things are the same and be too friendly.

While I was thinking about this I received the second email....

2nd:
Two very good mutual friends of me and this couple are getting married soon and the hen and stag do's are happening on the same night, in 3 weeks time, and were organised back in December. Both pregnant friend and her husband had confirmed their attendance at the time for the respective events and then reconfirmed once all the activities were arranged. I don't know all the details of the stag do but pregnant friend's DH was definitely expected. Once we knew about the baby we made it clear pregnant friend was of course not expected to participate in anything too wild or stay out late or anything (the bride is teetotal and doesn't want any crazy clubbing or wild stuff anyway) like that but the bride would really like her there for some of it.. She said she was coming for pottery painting and dinner. She had to cancel the spa part of the afternoon because the venue say the temperature is unsafe was pregnant women.

I am organising the hen do with another friend. Earlier this week I sent out a general reminder email to everyone that the date was coming up and of where to be and when. Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

She has just emailed to say the plans look great but unfortunately it is her husband's birthday and they will be celebrating with his sister and brother in law who will be visiting them for the weekend and so won't be attending either do. "Sorry about that but it sounds like you have lots of other people going. xx"

I find this really frustrating. It's not like they didn't know it was her husband's birthday (which is actually 2 days earlier, not that weekend) but they both committed to celebrating with these friends on the saturday and now have already made other arrangements and only told me because I sent out a reminder.

I feel like I cannot reply because to say what I want to say would cause trouble but to be polite and gracious is a bit beyond me at this minute!

Also not sure what to tell the bride. I don't want to hurt her feelings by saying this couple made other plans?


UPDATE part 2:
Have just spoken with the other girl (A) who is helping to organise the hen party.  She also received 2 emails from pregnant friend today. One saying how lovely it was to see A and her DH last night, they were so touched by the baby gift they dropped round, and then immediately followed that with the email about not coming to the hen do.

A says the hen do email was a statement of fact, she is not coming, and doesn't require a response.

Also interesting to note that A and her DH have had no contact whatsoever with this couple since before Christmas (apart from the party start of Feb where they announced the pregnancy) and so she and DH dropped round with a small baby gift last night to make they they spoke to them.  Pregnant friend's husband was there and invited them in for a cup of tea and was friendly and chatty but seemed very tired. He is doing DIY himself because pregnant friend can't help but still turned down A and her DH when they offered to help out.. Pregnant friend meanwhile was out for dinner with the other pregnant women from work and came in just as A and DH were leaving.....so she has no problems socialising. Just with us...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: DangerMouth on March 18, 2011, 09:44:54 AM
"Sorry about that but it sounds like you have lots of other people going. xx"

"Yes, we do, no need to worry about being missed" (stuffs evil back into cage)

Looks like these folks have taken up permanent residence on Planet Us. I don't know what you can do about it but stop caring. I know that's hard, but it will get easier with time.

I also don't think it's your job to protect them from the consequenses of their self-centerednesss. One of these consequences is that they are hurting others (such as the bride). I know it will feel like you are the one who is hurting the brides feelings if you are honest with her about where xx is that night, but that's not true. But really, all you need to say is 'she couldn't make it' and beandip. I wouldn't even go so far as to say "she sends her regrets", but I'm you're probably a nicer person than I am.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Adoptstrays on March 18, 2011, 01:11:08 PM
I don't post very often so here is my first POD to Audrey Quest. You put into words exactly what I've been thinking since about page 5.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 18, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
AudreyQuest
I don't even know how to respond to this. You seem to have read what I wrote and understood the opposite!

By the way, no one has been 'commanded to attend' anything, Invites were sent out (after they knew she was prgenant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

When I said the way I wanted to reply would cause trouble I meant reply to her, and only her. My response in my head is "what a surprise, whatever" and that would be rude so I would never say it.  I have not mentioned this to anyone other than the girl I am organising with and nor do I plan to.

Erm, I would tell the bride at some point because she has regularly asked who has rsvp'd and so she thinks they are coming to the stag and hen do.

No one is trying to hold anyone hostage. I think you are misunderstanding.  Two very good friends suddenly disappeared out of our lives completely for no obvious reason that we can see. Various people have tried to keep communication open and have been knocked back. I think that is called caring about your friends and checking if they are ok, and then eventually leaving them to it.

I do not think I have been judgemental - just stating the facts as they happen for anyone who was following the thread - and as I have said above, I have not responded to the emails and am leaving her alone.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Lynn2000 on March 18, 2011, 01:34:19 PM
OP, I know this whole situation has been very frustrating and hurtful for you, and I think you're handling it well. I think the thing to do is what some others have advised... just start disengaging from caring about these people. It's easier said than done, I know, but they are not acting like friends to you or to many of the others they know (such as canceling plans they had already confirmed to go to another social event).

Sometimes for my own sanity I have had to disengage from people in my life who were just giving me too much drama. The temptation for me is to collect all the little facts and foibles and present them to other friends or advice-givers, like I'm building a "case"--I talked to Friend X and they said the person said THIS, but then Friend Y saw them out at dinner with the Smiths on Thursday and... I can feel myself being drawn into this obsessive web of negativity. And the thing I have to do in that case is just pull back, stop talking about it with anyone, stop even writing things down anywhere, think about other stuff, act like I'm not at all interested in talking about the drama queen in question. It might take a while, but usually this works to bring me to a better place.

That is just what happens to me, and I mention here because I thought maybe it would help you. I don't mean to discourage you from posting things here if you feel you need advice, but if you feel it's better for you to move on, don't feel you need to keep updating us. It sounds like this person doesn't really care what you or her other former friends are doing with their lives; maybe it's time for you to stop caring about what happens in HERS.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: anonymousmac on March 18, 2011, 01:51:46 PM
Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:
Quote
So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Starchasm on March 18, 2011, 02:08:24 PM
Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:
Quote
So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.


I agree with anonymousmac. OP said:

Quote
Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Pinky830 on March 18, 2011, 02:24:27 PM
Guests had already confirmed they were coming and we have paid deposits to the venues etc (pottery place is opening just for us, dinner required a deposit upfront etc). This was literally just a reminder.

Are the deposits per person, or for the group as a whole?

I think it would be perfectly polite to respond to her that when she confirmed she was coming, you put down a deposit for her, and if she's decided to change her mind, you'd like to be reimbursed.

AudreyQuest posted:
Quote
So what that they "confirmed" their attendance 3 months ago?  Their circumstances have changed and likely continue to change every day.

I strongly disagree with this.  They RSVP'd yes, and confirmed it again.  There's no medical emergency, and they knew they were pregnant when they said yes.  The only reason they want to cancel now is that they don't feel like it and want to celebrate the husband's birthday with someone else instead.  I think that's really rude behavior, and I think the OP has every right to react to that.


I agree with anonymousmac. OP said:

Quote
Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming,. After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to and confirmed when we checked numbers later on for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

I completely agree. Also, the OP does understand that this couple has disengaged and she needs to move on. But she is understandably grieving the friendship.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 18, 2011, 03:03:21 PM
AudreyQuest:

When I say we, I am referring to the 3/4 very close friends I have shared this with because they asked me what was going on with this couple as I was closest to them and we have discussed it a couple of times during the course of catching up and general chatting. I think that is completely natural.  In our wider social circle there are over 20 people. In our church there are hundreds. Therefore I resent the accusation that I am gossiping about them.

I post on here because it is anonymous and it helps me gather my thoughts. it is better for me to do that than to gossip about them to others as you put it. Perhaps the amount i have posted has given you the wrong impression of how much interaction there has been between us recently.

As far as being able to participate in the hen do activities. A small number of friends are going for a spa afternoon (she was to be one because the bride counted her as a close friend, but of course cannot now because of the pregnancy, that is not an issue) and then others were to join the party in the early evening for pottery painting in a local workshop followed by dinner and the bride doesn't drink alcohol so it will not be a wild affair. You make it sound as if we were asking her to go drinking or pole dancing!

You also seem to be focusing on the fact that we are part of a church community and that we are somehow judging. holding them to ransom and bothering them etc because of that. I don't know if you have issues with organised religion but it is simply that church is the common interest here and it is at church activities that we would usually come across each other. It is not that we are some kind of cult who cannot let members go.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Starchasm on March 18, 2011, 03:12:41 PM

Quote
Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming, (1). After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to (2)and confirmed when we checked numbers later on (3) for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.
 
I also doubt that their decision not to go has to do with "something better coming along."  I think it has everything to do with not wanting to be a part of this church community anymore.
 
Actually, I think them not attending should have been expected.

I read it as three times (numbered above) but the wording is kind of ambiguous.

Regardless, etiquette does not require that anyone be psychic.  Organizers should not have to second guess a guest's intentions.  "Well she said she was going to come, but did she REALLY mean it?"  They took her at her word, at least twice, that she would show up for the activities she was comfortable with.  If she did not want to come she should have just said so, particularly prior to any deposits being paid.

Canceling an activity to do something else with other people is rude.  Period.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 18, 2011, 03:17:27 PM

Quote
Invites were sent out (after they knew she was pregnant, but we didn't), they said they were coming, (1). After I and my friend A found out she was pregnant we tried to say we hoped she could still come to at least part of it and she said she wanted to (2)and confirmed when we checked numbers later on (3) for activities that had to be booked.  Now she has said she has made other plans instead.  

So she's been pregnant the whole time.  She confirmed three times, even after given the opportunity to back out. Then, weeks before the event, she made other plans and decided not to go.

It is never not rude to RSVP then decide not to go because something better came up.  "Backing out" for reasons other than a medical emergency or dinner at the White House is rude.

It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.
 
I also doubt that their decision not to go has to do with "something better coming along."  I think it has everything to do with not wanting to be a part of this church community anymore.
 
Actually, I think them not attending should have been expected.

I read it as three times (numbered above) but the wording is kind of ambiguous.

Regardless, etiquette does not require that anyone be psychic.  Organizers should not have to second guess a guest's intentions.  "Well she said she was going to come, but did she REALLY mean it?"  They took her at her word, at least twice, that she would show up for the activities she was comfortable with.  If she did not want to come she should have just said so, particularly prior to any deposits being paid.

Canceling an activity to do something else with other people is rude.  Period.

Yes, 3 times is correct.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: wyozozo on March 18, 2011, 03:46:14 PM
Quote
It was twice that they confirmed and I don't really see the second time as being very committed.
Once, twice or 5000 times, once you confirm you follow through. To not do so without a VERY good reason is rude.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 18, 2011, 04:05:16 PM
AudreyQuest

I am not trying to criticise or judge them or be angry. I am confused, I am putting everything on the table and seeing what people think.

You obviously have your opinion, thanks for giving it, but I disagree with it and I cannot get into this.












Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Dindrane on March 18, 2011, 04:28:34 PM
Audrey,

First point: it is a basic tenet of etiquette (like REALLY basic) that once you have said you will attend something, it is rude to back out because you decided you'd really rather do something else.  There are acceptable reasons to back out of a commitment of this nature, but this situation is not one of them.

Second point: you obviously think that how the OP is behaving is incorrect.  However, at this point, you've said it multiple times, at length.  The OP obviously does not agree with your interpretation of events, and at this point, you really just sound like you're berating her, and trying to "prove" that she has been judgmental.  None of us were there, so it seems to me that we all ought to be giving the OP at least some benefit of the doubt.  It sounds to me like you are putting the worst spin you can imagine on what she has said, and if that's not your intent, you might want to think about how you're phrasing your opinions.

Finally, I think the OP would be best served, at this point, by cutting her losses and trying to forget about this woman and her husband.  But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior exhibited is very confusing, hurtful, and occasionally rude.  If the former friend and her husband don't want to be friends with the OP's social circle, they don't have to, but it sends an incredibly mixed message for them to play hot and cold.  If they wanted to escape so badly, all they'd have to do is stop being available, stop answering emails, and stop going to group events.  If they did that, people would assuredly stop trying to see or include them far more quickly than if the couple maintains sporadic and confusing contact.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: hobish on March 18, 2011, 04:56:33 PM
Samgirl doesn't deserve a verbal beatdown.

Samgirl isn't demonizing anyone. She is confused by a friends actions, hurt, and looking for advice. Maybe you disagree; but demonizing? That's what you call being hurt and confused? I don't get it.


Everyone's circumstances change all the time. Backing out of something you had committed to three times over - because it is your husband's birthday, something they surely were aware of, and decided to go away for the weekend instead is cancelling for better plans. Assign whatever motive you like to it; but that is exactly what it is. This being an etiquette board and all, a person is allowed to frown on that and not expect to be badgered for it.

Samgirl ... i wish i knew what to tell you. I don't think you are demonizing anyone, or anything of the sort. In your shoes i would be cautiously trying to figure out what happened to my friend, too.


Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Dindrane on March 18, 2011, 05:04:38 PM
I agree completely [with Hobish].

I think it's time to let the friendship go, not because it's wrong to be concerned, but because the cost of your attempt to maintain this friendship has become quite high.  For your own sanity, I suggest you take a big step back from it, and try to just ignore what this person does or says.

At least ignore it for a few months, and just take it from there.  Getting a break from worrying about it will probably give you some perspective about the whole thing, and a clearer head regarding how you want to approach this in the future.

ETA: forgot a couple words
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: DangerMouth on March 18, 2011, 05:11:42 PM
Just wanted say I agree with Dindrane and Hobish here. You've both saved me from trying to organize my thoughts as coherently as you have.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Danika on March 19, 2011, 02:54:10 AM
Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Raintree on March 19, 2011, 03:34:48 AM
I sympathize with Samgirl, but I also agree with Audrey Quest that there may be some valid reason they are withdrawing from that particular community (happens to be church, but could be any community where people come together and feel connected). Just let them be. In time, you may find out what it's all about. But they have their reasons, and it sounds as though it's not personal against Samgirl.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: sammycat on March 19, 2011, 03:52:51 AM
Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.

I so totally and utterly agree with this entire post!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 19, 2011, 05:07:11 AM
Samgirl2, I think, if it's cathartic for you to discuss this here, then go for it. I don't feel that you are demonizing your former friend. I get the impression that you're just saying "I had a friend who presented the illusion that we were close and that she was warm, friendly and reliable and now I'm finding a lot of evidence that none of those things are true. I'm trying to figure out if she's in pain and I can help her, or if she had just shown me one side of her character in the past and now I'm seeing her true colors." The fact that her husband doesn't indicate that there's anything wrong with her night and day difference in behavior makes it seem as if he was complicit in her duplicity (for lack of a better phrase and description).

I like detective stories, so I'm interested in this saga as it continues to unfold. But mainly, I've been in your shoes, as many of us have, and I feel your pain and I can see it in your words and I want to help you unravel this mystery because I have analyzed and overanalyzed situations like this in my life. And only by seeing all the facts presented to me, was I able to come to some closure or acceptance. I wanted to make sure that I had a clear conscience and had never hurt a close friend. I wanted to make sure that there was nothing I could do to recapture our close friendship because it had been meaningful to me.

The good news is that this really is a "it's her, and not you" thing. The good and bad news is that this probably isn't the last time in your life that you'll lose a close friendship in such a cryptic manner, but with experience, you will get better at coming to terms with the fact that the chapter has ended and the book is closed and all you can do is put it back on the shelf and move on to another book.

And a word of advice to your mutual friend, the bride. I hope she appreciates that the pregnant girl's actions have indicated that no matter what the response on the RSVP card says, pregnant girl and husband will likely not show up at the wedding.

Yes! This is it exactly!!!! Bolded bits are exactly how I feel!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Wordgeek on March 19, 2011, 06:43:42 AM
AudreyQuest, please step away from the thread.  Your name calling is inappropriate, and I deleted your last post.

I also edited out a few references to that last post.  When someone has stepped out of line, it's best not to engage.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: EMuir on March 19, 2011, 08:44:12 AM
Samgirl2, I feel for you and I think that your friend is absolutely being rude.  I have withdrawn from friendships before and I never went hot and cold like they are.  They are acting in a confusing manner.  For your own health I think you need to assume your close friendship with her is over. I'm very sorry about that. :(
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: mikeylou on March 19, 2011, 08:33:40 PM
I can't help but wonder if the pregnant friend has fallen into some sort of pregnant social trap - ie: You must socialize completely with other pregnant women in order to fully experience preggo-hood.  And that all non-pregnant friends just "wouldn't understand what [i'm] going through" so they get brushed to the wayside. 

*sigh*  I wrote this post much better while I was sitting in the car...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 19, 2011, 11:34:59 PM
I can't help but wonder if the pregnant friend has fallen into some sort of pregnant social trap - ie: You must socialize completely with other pregnant women in order to fully experience preggo-hood.  And that all non-pregnant friends just "wouldn't understand what [i'm] going through" so they get brushed to the wayside. 
This thought crossed my mind as well.
No matter the reason, OP, just don't expect anything from the former friend/ now acquaintance. Keep things very cool and minimal communication
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 20, 2011, 06:53:59 AM

Finally, I think the OP would be best served, at this point, by cutting her losses and trying to forget about this woman and her husband.  But that doesn't change the fact that the behavior exhibited is very confusing, hurtful, and occasionally rude.  If the former friend and her husband don't want to be friends with the OP's social circle, they don't have to, but it sends an incredibly mixed message for them to play hot and cold.  If they wanted to escape so badly, all they'd have to do is stop being available, stop answering emails, and stop going to group events.  If they did that, people would assuredly stop trying to see or include them far more quickly than if the couple maintains sporadic and confusing contact.

Thank you for your post.  At first, when I started this thread, I was feeling like my friend had disappeared, I'd tried to reach out to her but she hadn't reciprocated so I concluded we didn't have the friendship she had led me to believe and I was hurt and upset and confused. I was thinking that I should just leave her and her husband alone because they seemed to be making it clear they didn't want my involvement, But, I didn't want to appear rude or cold in case it was a temporary and personal problem them were dealing with and it could be resolved in time, and also because we had so many mutual friends and were bound to run into each other I didn't want to make anything awkward.

Since then they have pulled back even more and it's become clear that it's not just me but everyone in our social circle. They haven't been to church or any kind of social activity at all for 7 weeks. Ok, so I shouldn't take it personally and it would mean they have moved on/don't want to be part of our community/other reason and we should just let them be.  Except that when she had sent me the irrational email she'd accused none of us of being happy for them or of offering to help and support them (not quite sure what with but anyway) etc.  So I felt like if I just stepped away from them it would be like confirming her (wrong) suspicions and also what if they were really going through something and would need me eventually?  So I decided to be polite and civil when our paths did cross but not try to engage them. No emails, not texts to say 'how's your day', no suggesting we go for coffee etc.

That went on for about 6 weeks, then out of the blue she emails to invite me for coffee. I go, expecting that one of us will bring up the current situation. If she doesn't then I need to.  She brings her husband, they both act like everything is completely normal (making no mention of anything that has happened, not even a 'wow haven't seen you in ages') which I try to play along with but feel very uncomfortable.  They smile and seem upbeat etc but it seems kind of forced. The things they say about what they've been up to don't seem to add up and I feel like we are almost strangers. They don't stay long and she barely says goodbye when we walk out the cafe.

So, ok, that's it. I felt like we were now acqaintances, she obviously doesn't want to discuss her actions or behaviour, there is no point me trying and we just don't have that kind of friendship anymore.  It's been so long that while I miss her I have got used to it, plus her behaviour has meant I can't be the same and don't feel I can trust her anymore.  I will be an acquaintance, be indifferent about them and because they have not officially left church or our social group I will include them on information emails about church activities etc out of courtesy. They can choose to read them or not but we are not shutting them out.

Then I receive a warm and friendly email (see post #174), that sounds exactly like the old her, in response to one of the above mentioned 'courtesy emails'. I wonder if she is starting to try and get things back on track and whether I should respond or just be pleased she seems to be reaching out.  Then 2 minutes later I get another email from her. She is pulling out of the upcoming hen do for a mutual friend, her husband will not be going to the stag do for the groom either, because they will be celebrating her husband's birthday with his sister and BIL instead. This is an event they'd known about for months and had both rsvp'd to and reconfirmed more recently.  If I hadn't received the first email I wouldn't have been at all surprised that they pulled out given their recent abscence from everything, although I would still be annoyed she was cancelling.

But it's like you say in the quote. If they really wanted to pull away then do it completely. Don't ignore someone for ages, then invite them for coffee as if everything is fine. Don't stay away from your church and all social activities for 7 weeks running, then send a warm and friendly email that sounds like your old self and then pull out of an event you had committed too because you want to do something else.

That's what makes this really hard. The mixed signals and the fact I don't know what their reasons are but I still want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think they must have good and serious reasons because otherwise I was friends with split personality!  I don't want to be the one who was mean, gave them the cut direct and causes problems among our circle and church community if they are not cutting us off but merely taking a break.

I haven't responded to the two emails. They were statements not questions so I thought that was ok.

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: whiterose on March 20, 2011, 07:40:16 AM
Today, one of the Dear Abby letters has a woman who experienced severe depression during her pregnancy. So now I wonder if this is your friend's case:

www.dearabby.com
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 20, 2011, 07:53:35 AM
Today, one of the Dear Abby letters has a woman who experienced severe depression during her pregnancy. So now I wonder if this is your friend's case:

www.dearabby.com

Yes, it's exactly stories like this that make me think I should stick with it because at some point she might need her friends again. By stick with it i mean just be open if she reaches out but give her space until she may want to.

I think if she weren't pregnant then this whole thing would be simple. She and her husband have pulled back, behaved strangely and hurtfully, not acknowledged when I said I missed their friendship and so I would just leave them be as people I used to know and was nodding acquaintances with.

It's the fact that it's all happened as soon as they found out she was pregnant that makes me think there's more to it and even though they are leaving me hurt and confused and I should definitely leave them be, I should not forget about them completely?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Dindrane on March 20, 2011, 10:39:36 AM
I think the best thing you can do right now is, first, acknowledge that you are hurt and confused by this behavior, and that it's okay.  Because it is.

Second, acknowledge that there may very well be a logical explanation for it that doesn't involve your friend being weird and drama-seeking.  But also acknowledge that you are unlikely to know what that explanation is, at any point, ever.

Third, once you've internalized both of those things, let her behavior guide yours.  Your default should be pretty much just ignoring her, because no matter what she's said, her actions would make any reasonable person conclude that she doesn't really want to spend very much time with you.  So barring anything else, try to ignore her and what she's doing.

If her behavior changes, though, like with the two emails you just got...evaluate what she's actually doing (at least as much as what she's saying) and use that to decide whether or not you move away from your default.  In this case, what she's doing is continuing to be uninvolved, even though what she's saying is sort of the opposite.  Listen to her behavior here, and just chalk the words that don't fit with it as being part of that second step -- there's probably a reason she's doing it, but you don't know that reason now and may never know it.  So don't dwell.

Ultimately, continuing to let this particular person and your relationship with her take up so much headspace is going to make you really, really unhappy.  I've been there, and I know.  It's hard to mentally put it aside, and it'll creep back in every now and again despite your best efforts, but I think it's important to try to do it anyway.  You won't be able to devote very much time or energy to friends who don't pull away from you without an explanation if you spend really any time dissecting this friendship or her behavior.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on March 20, 2011, 11:09:54 AM
Nothing useful to add, just wanted to say that I POD Dindrane and Hobish because they have given excellent advice, and that I'm sorry this has happened.  My BFF moved away for university a few years ago and, whilst the situation isn't the same, I know how hard it is when someone you were close to is suddenly not in your life anymore.  It's easy to say, "cut your losses and move on" but is incredibly hard to do so, especially when - in your case - you don't understand why the friendship has seemingly come to an end.

Re this sentence: "By stick with it i mean just be open if she reaches out but give her space until she may want to." - I actually think it would be wise to prepare yourself for this.  On the face of it, it does seem like your friend is out of line by just dropping you all like that but, as others have said many times, we don't know why they have done this and it could be for some sinister reason.  This is why I think it is best to play it safe by preparing for the possibility that she may reach out in future.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: irish1 on March 20, 2011, 11:21:37 AM
Just joined the forum and found this thread today, so it's been interesting to follow the history of this problem.

Samgirl2, I congratulate you on your endless patience, and I'm really sorry for what you've gone through. I really feel for you, but I'm glad that you feel you don't trust your friend, as this will mean you don't miss her as much.

If she is going through a hard time and ends up reaching out to you at a later stage, that will be difficult as you won't want her to be hurt, but if I have understood correctly you find it hard to think well of her? (totally understandably) So that is my concern - that you will want to help her for the sake of the friendship you once had. If that arises, I just advise that you don't push yourself beyond what makes you comfortable.

It's so heartening to see the great advice, wisdom and kindness here on the boards!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: SingMeAway on March 20, 2011, 12:35:30 PM
I think Dindrane's advice is excellent and I completely agree with using that approach.

One thing occurs to me though and I apologize if I'm adding another layer to an already complex situation....I'm assuming she's about 6 months along now and I get the impression that your church groups gather to celebrate occasions like weddings, etc... Would the church groups that friend and her husband used to partake in normally throw a baby shower for the prospective parents? What will happen now? I've been in a situation similar to yours (though not quite as dramatic) and after all the tantrums and fallout by "friend", she eventually became pregnant. It was really almost a moral imperative that the work group throw her a shower which someone did and we all attended. It was not really a comfy, relaxed affair though. In your position, I wouldn't really want anything to do with her, but a baby shower would put me in a real quandary.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 20, 2011, 06:27:38 PM
I think Dindrane's advice is excellent and I completely agree with using that approach.

One thing occurs to me though and I apologize if I'm adding another layer to an already complex situation....I'm assuming she's about 6 months along now and I get the impression that your church groups gather to celebrate occasions like weddings, etc... Would the church groups that friend and her husband used to partake in normally throw a baby shower for the prospective parents? What will happen now? I've been in a situation similar to yours (though not quite as dramatic) and after all the tantrums and fallout by "friend", she eventually became pregnant. It was really almost a moral imperative that the work group throw her a shower which someone did and we all attended. It was not really a comfy, relaxed affair though. In your position, I wouldn't really want anything to do with her, but a baby shower would put me in a real quandary.

Well, there was another couple in our group who have now moved away but when they had their DD we congratulated them at the announcement, asked regularly how they were etc and when the baby was born we dropped off meals and a couple of people helped with housework.  I think people expect that we would do the same for this couple. In fact one girl brought it up this evening and said she feels like we should do something but with the way they have been lately maybe they don't want anything. but if we don't do anything will they think we don't care. See, it's a conundrum!!  ???

Mind you, the couple who moved away acted completely differently to pregnant friend! They came to everything they could during the pregnancy because they thought it was the last time they would get to do whatever they wanted before the baby, they wanted prayers and support for the pregnancy, and they were just happy to share their joy with everyone.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 20, 2011, 06:30:51 PM
I think the best thing you can do right now is, first, acknowledge that you are hurt and confused by this behavior, and that it's okay.  Because it is.

Second, acknowledge that there may very well be a logical explanation for it that doesn't involve your friend being weird and drama-seeking.  But also acknowledge that you are unlikely to know what that explanation is, at any point, ever.

Third, once you've internalized both of those things, let her behavior guide yours.  Your default should be pretty much just ignoring her, because no matter what she's said, her actions would make any reasonable person conclude that she doesn't really want to spend very much time with you.  So barring anything else, try to ignore her and what she's doing.

If her behavior changes, though, like with the two emails you just got...evaluate what she's actually doing (at least as much as what she's saying) and use that to decide whether or not you move away from your default.  In this case, what she's doing is continuing to be uninvolved, even though what she's saying is sort of the opposite.  Listen to her behavior here, and just chalk the words that don't fit with it as being part of that second step -- there's probably a reason she's doing it, but you don't know that reason now and may never know it.  So don't dwell.

Ultimately, continuing to let this particular person and your relationship with her take up so much headspace is going to make you really, really unhappy.  I've been there, and I know.  It's hard to mentally put it aside, and it'll creep back in every now and again despite your best efforts, but I think it's important to try to do it anyway.  You won't be able to devote very much time or energy to friends who don't pull away from you without an explanation if you spend really any time dissecting this friendship or her behavior.

I want to print this out and re-read it everyday!

Thanks, you are so right.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: LifeOnPluto on March 21, 2011, 05:30:42 AM
I also agree that your pregnant (ex)friend and her husband are being rude by pulling out of the Hens and Bucks Nights.

Which raises the question: what if you hadn't sent the reminder? Were they ever going to inform the organisers that they were no longer attending?

I agree with the PP who said the Bride and Groom should prepare for the fact that this couple won't be at the wedding.

I also read the Dear Abby letter. It's sad that the Letter Writer suffered from depression - however, I think if she wants to reconnect with the people she pushed away, she owes them a genuine apology and explanation.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Samgirl2 on March 23, 2011, 06:00:34 PM
UPDATE

Just a little one  :)

Tonight was our weekly home group meeting for church and pregnant friend came!  No one was expecting them and we had started the discussion etc when the doorbell rang and one lady actually said (out of earshot of course) 'good gosh, they're not dead then'!  This lady has not been part of any of my conversations I have had as she is not a close friend and has never mentioned their absence so it was interesting and pretty funny for her to say that!

Anyway, so pregnant friend came but not her husband. First time she's been to anything in weeks and weeks. She didn't mention him not being there and when asked just said he was busy. We had the session as usual, bit of discussion, did some bible notes etc and she participated a bit but was a little reserved compared to her old self. 

The key things that stood out to me:


She also left early too.

So, I think she's not trying to pull back from the church community completely because she voluntarily came tonight.  But I think it is a personal issue they are going through and just want to avoid discussing, maybe something to do with the baby not quite being planned or something. I feel so sad for them if it is that but I know there is nothing I can do because they have clearly chosen to keep it to themselves and so I am not worrying about it like I would have before.

It's weird but I felt totally indifferent. I mean, it was nice to see her and see that she looked well, but other than that, the big thing was that I just didn't feel anything either way. It was like we'd never been friends and I wasn't bothered. Major step forward!!!  After she left the rest of us stayed chatting for a bit and made no mention of them. I think everyone is so used to them not being around and not wanting to talk that everyone is just ok to let them do whatever and they are just not a big part of the group anymore. I don't think there's any animosity or anything like that, just that after a certain length of time everyone has just got used to them not being there. If they come back then that's great, if not, that's up to them.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #174
Post by: Danika on March 23, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
Thanks for the update!

pregnant friend looked withdrawn and just said 'yeah, the baby won't go away'

Yikes! Just yikes! Sad to hear.

It reminds me of my grandfather's parents. About three months after they got married, my great-grandmother got pregnant. And she was devastated and totally beside herself. She never wanted the baby and was upset that her girlish figure would be ruined, etc. It even ruined her marriage as they divorced within that year. She told my grandfather all his life that he ruined her life and that she never wanted him. He never asked for that. It's sad that because your pregnant friend is married, she seems to feel like she can't give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want to be a parent.

It's weird but I felt totally indifferent. I mean, it was nice to see her and see that she looked well, but other than that, the big thing was that I just didn't feel anything either way. It was like we'd never been friends and I wasn't bothered. Major step forward!!!

That's fantastic. Good for you! I'm glad that you've come this far.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: P-p-p-penguin on March 23, 2011, 06:38:13 PM
Samgirl2, I'm glad you seem to be 'getting over' the breakdown of the friendship.

Like you say, obviously she's not backing off entirely or she wouldn't have come to the meeting, but at least you know that her presence (or lack of) won't bother or upset you as much anymore.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: JoyinVirginia on March 23, 2011, 07:48:48 PM
Thanks for the update! Glad you are feeling detached from the drama!
Just thought of something else. I have had one friend who was particularly .. peculiar... ultra private - about discussion of anything involving female anatomy. Maybe part of this is something like that? Who knows? It doesn't matter anyway! Woo-hoo!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Otterpop on March 31, 2011, 05:11:21 PM
Good update for you.  I had a feeling that they weren't really enthusiastic about being parents.  It's not about you, or your lack of support.  The couple I mentioned previously (somewhere a hundred posts ago) settled into their new roles too, but have been heard to lament their "old" life.  Their son, unfortunately, hears it too.  He's about 14 now and whip smart, but is also very bitter and angry himself.  I hope your couple can get it together because their child will feel it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Akarui Kibuno on March 31, 2011, 05:23:04 PM
Or maybe they discovered the baby has an illness that will have a huge impact on his/her quality of life, and so on...

Anyway, good update for you, I think. You seem to have a nice way of dealing with things.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #214
Post by: Samgirl2 on May 09, 2011, 06:09:56 AM
Just a little one, there may be more after the weekend...

So, there has still been no contact between my former friend and her husband with either me or anyone else in our social circle and/or church circle.  People have included them on a few emails about church or social activities just out of courtesy but they have never replied and haven't been seen around. I have not attempted to contact them at all.

Then all of  a sudden, for the past two sundays they have been back at church at the morning family service. I go to a different service but a couple of friends were there. They said former friend and her hubby arrived late, and tried to leave without speaking to anyone. The first week they almost succeeded but a friend who was organising a BBQ for his wife's birthday managed to catch them in the car park to invite them (they said no, as expected really), the second week a friend managed to say hi and how were they etc and have a bit of a chat and she thought they'd mellowed out a bit and seemed more relaxed.

I got to thinking that if they were trying out our church again (and not another one which would have been much easier if they truly wanted to avoid us, there are many in the area), even if they weren't really wanting to be social, that it might be a good sign that they were maybe starting to get things back to normal and not completely cutting everything off.  I also thought maybe, if it was me, this has all been going on for several months now and maybe, if she has calmed down, she doesn't know how to approach people again because it's been so long. Also, mutual friends are getting married soon and this couple have rsvpd for the wedding and I don't want it to be too awkward to see them. So I sent just a very brief email to say hi, hoped they were doing ok and they'd had a good easter, that we still thought of them at our church home group (which they used to lead)and that hopefully I'd see them at the wedding.  I guess a kind of reach out email that they can respond to if they want but that wasn't really demanding an answer.

I guess I truly believe that there is something going on we don't know about and that they are dealing with stuff which has made them act this way. I still don't believe they are bad people, but at the same time I don't want things to go back to the way they were before because I don't trust them like that now - it would just be nice to be on friendly terms and to know that they are ok.

I didn't get a response for 10 days and wasn't surprised or particularly bothered really. Then yesterday she emailed back with a really chirpy email about how she was so sorry she'd taken so long to reply, they hadn't checked their email. Their easter was great, she's getting really big and i'll get a shock to see her at the wedding, how is everything with me?, she'd see me at the wedding this coming Saturday.

She also did a 'reply all' to an email from another lady about going to an event for a mutual friend who is being made a warden in the church. She said they can't attend as they have birthing class this week but to pass on their congratulations, they didn't know he'd got this job, great news. She said she was aware they hadn't seen us in a long time and would probably see us at the wedding.

So, it sounds like they are attending, which is great, but at the same time she has still been responding as an acquaintance, not the friendly self she used to be so I think I will just see what happens and be friendly if I see them.

Edited for typos.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Oxymoroness on May 09, 2011, 06:58:28 AM
This sounds so much like the formal friend I mentioned earlier it's a little scary.

By all means be friendly, but I'd totally keep her at arms length. Even if she tries to be a all buddy-buddy again, I'd bet good money that her tune will shift again once the baby is born.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Dragonflymom on May 09, 2011, 07:06:24 PM
To me, this almost sounds like how I've been with my friends lately, where I've just got way too much on my plate with DD's medical issues and my medical and mental health issues.  I've had to cut way back on contact, and keep things more superficial for the most part, just because I don't seem to have the emotional energy to be the kind of friend I usually am.

So put me in the there's probably something going on camp.

I'd respond in kind to all her attempts at contact, not expect too much, and just see how things progress for now.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: LifeOnPluto on May 09, 2011, 10:16:35 PM
This is rather odd behaviour, and I still reckon your friend owes you a major apology for completely brushing you off in the past few months.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Danika on May 09, 2011, 10:37:48 PM
I'm about 60% confident she'll show up at the wedding. And I'm confident that if she and her DH do show up at the wedding, they don't come early; they arrive just on time. And that they leave early before dancing and socializing.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Perfect Circle on May 10, 2011, 02:55:24 AM
This is rather odd behaviour, and I still reckon your friend owes you a major apology for completely brushing you off in the past few months.


I agree. It takes no time to say I'm sorry, I'm too busy to see you right now. Also her behaviour when you met up was not right. She definitely owes you a big apology.

I'm about 60% confident she'll show up at the wedding. And I'm confident that if she and her DH do show up at the wedding, they don't come early; they arrive just on time. And that they leave early before dancing and socializing.

I will bet you two pennies that is excatly what is going to happen if they actually turn up.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Samgirl2 on May 16, 2011, 12:08:22 PM
As Perfect Circle and Danika said above, pregnant former friend and her husband did indeed arrive just on time for the wedding of two previously very good friends. With 2 minutes to spare they sat right at the back off to one side and left immediately after the meal.

After the ceremony there were drinks at the back of the church while photographs were being done and they chatted with a few older members of the congregation and guests but not to any of their previous friends, unless someone approached them directly. When everyone went through to the hall for the meal they were walking towards myself an another friend and we were both about to say hello when they walked straight past without saying a word, but while people were still taking their seats pregnant friend did come back over quickly to say hello and congratulate us on the decorations etc which was nice of her I guess. (A team of us had helped on this wedding and put in lots of hours writing place cards, folding orders of service, being in the band for the service, setting up and decorating the venue etc etc. These former friends were invited to be part of it but refused.)  It was literally a polite "hi, how are you guys, the hall looks great, well done you" thing. I told her she looked well (she's 8 months now), asked if she'd finished work yet and she said "yes, been really really well thanks, working a couple more weeks as I'm so well. Anyway, must get back to table, DH is on his own. Bye"  

And that was it.  This is a former friend who I used to speak to every day and we now haven't spoken in months due to her actions and unusual behaviour. After the meal and speeches, when everyone was asked to mingle outside while we cleared the floor for the dancing, they snuck out. Didn't even say goodbye to the bride and groom.

So, that's that!

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #208
Post by: Minmom3 on May 16, 2011, 08:25:30 PM
Or maybe they discovered the baby has an illness that will have a huge impact on his/her quality of life, and so on...

Anyway, good update for you, I think. You seem to have a nice way of dealing with things.

I was just wondering that very same thing....  That the baby is possibly very damaged, and they're not handling it well.

All guessing on our part, but it would somewhat explain their odd behavior, and the comments they have made.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Danika on May 16, 2011, 09:45:09 PM
Thanks for the update. I'm glad that they at least showed up, given that they RSVPed in the affirmative.


...they were walking towards myself an another friend and we were both about to say hello when they walked straight past without saying a word...

 ???

Didn't even say goodbye to the bride and groom.

 ???
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: LifeOnPluto on May 16, 2011, 10:17:07 PM
To be fair, perhaps they spoke to the HC before the wedding, and told them they'd be leaving early?

Anyway, from their actions, it's clear they now see their old friends as casual acquaintances, rather than close friends. Not much you can do about it sadly. I wouldn't bother making contact with them again.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Perfect Circle on May 17, 2011, 04:19:50 AM
I think you need to let this friendship go. Clearly they are not interested in maintaining one.

I'm sorry. I know how much losing a friend hurts.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Samgirl2 on May 17, 2011, 07:17:59 AM
I think you need to let this friendship go. Clearly they are not interested in maintaining one.

I'm sorry. I know how much losing a friend hurts.

Oh yes, I have, believe me. I wasn't going to bother posting actually, because they clearly are not interested in maintaining a freindship and life is actually pretty fine without them. But I wanted to finish off from the last update really.

If I ever do find out what was going on I will post and let you guys know. Otherwise, it's been an odd few months but I am over it now, really.

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: furrcats on May 20, 2011, 12:34:22 AM
Glad to hear it op.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Danika on May 20, 2011, 12:40:52 AM
If I ever do find out what was going on I will post and let you guys know.

Do, please. I would be interested if you complete the puzzle. :)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: JoyinVirginia on May 22, 2011, 11:46:36 AM
If I ever do find out what was going on I will post and let you guys know.
Do, please. I would be interested if you complete the puzzle. :)
Just out of curiosity, I would too. OP, you have been gracious and I am glad you are doing fine
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: MC Clapyohanz on May 24, 2011, 03:24:43 AM
With the "baby won't go away" comment, I wonder if she wanted to terminate the pregnancy but didn't feel she could because of religious/ethical/personal views regarding abortion (going by what the OP said earlier that they weren't into having kids and then the wife became pregnant). Or maybe the husband has changed his mind and decided he does want kids and the wife still doesn't.

Anyone else have these thoughts?

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Danika on May 24, 2011, 04:07:02 AM
With the "baby won't go away" comment, I wonder if she wanted to terminate the pregnancy but didn't feel she could because of religious/ethical/personal views regarding abortion (going by what the OP said earlier that they weren't into having kids and then the wife became pregnant). Or maybe the husband has changed his mind and decided he does want kids and the wife still doesn't.

Anyone else have these thoughts?

I thought something along the same lines. But I wondered what a religious married person would do regarding adoption. Did she think that she couldn't just say "We didn't want to be parents, so we're giving it up for adoption"? I wondered if maybe they would give it up for adoption, and then would just join a new church where no one knew them or knew they were ever expecting.

And I didn't want to get on my soapbox, but I will now ;) => Why didn't they take more measures to ensure that they wouldn't get her pregnant? ie: numerous forms of birth control, not just one. Or a vasectomy, for example. If you're married, and you do the deed, you could end up pregnant, duh!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Elfmama on May 24, 2011, 10:21:57 AM


And I didn't want to get on my soapbox, but I will now ;) => Why didn't they take more measures to ensure that they wouldn't get her pregnant? ie: numerous forms of birth control, not just one. Or a vasectomy, for example. If you're married, and you do the deed, you could end up pregnant, duh!
Happens to a lot of us.  "You don't want to stop now to mess with that stupid diaphragm, do you?"  And 9 months later...
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Lisbeth on May 24, 2011, 10:00:33 PM
Well, you still don't know why she went cold on you all of a sudden, but I agree with all the advice to let this friendship go.  They already did.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #220
Post by: Iris on May 27, 2011, 01:23:57 AM
If you're married, and you do the deed, you could end up pregnant, duh!


Actually even if you're not married  ;D
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 02:51:56 AM
Well guys, she's had the baby!  It was a little girl, born 4 weeks early, slight problem with her lungs so will be in special care for a few days but nothing serious.

She sent an email at 8am this morning to our church home group (the one they no longer attend) saying "hi there, well baby couldn't wait till I finished work and went on maternity leave. Baby was born 24 hours ago, (name and weight) and is adorable but could you pray for her because of a slight lung problem, she is in special care for a few days but we want to be able to feed and cuddle her asap, thanks".

I replied just saying "congratulations, and such a beautiful name! Hope she's fighting fit asap so you can cuddle her x". She has just come back with "many thanks"

This is not judging, just commenting, that I checked their facebook pages, and family and coworkers have been congratulating them since yesterday so it seems we really were the last to know. I never would have imagined any of this before she got pregnant but hey, you can't predict everything. I am ok with it. Just still weird to think I won't be rushing over there to cuddle the baby and chat to her.

A friend from our social circle had emailed them last week to say we wanted to have a bit of a get together before the baby's arrival, as a celebration, suggesting a pudding party at someone's home. I wasn't part of the plan as I didn't think there was any point but this friend really wanted to try one more time. Didn't think they would agree but they said yes and suggested a date the week before she was due, so in 3 weeks time.  So, I was gearing up for how that would be.  Now I guess it will be a welcome baby event, if they still come!

I have a card and a babygro I plan to put in the post to them. It's a small present, because I feel like I want to be nice but not go too far, but I plan to post it, not go round personally. I think that's for the best.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 08, 2011, 06:15:47 AM
I'm glad the baby seems ok. I personally think you are being far too nice to your former friend (sending the gift and everything), but that's just me.

I also doubt they'll attend the baby party, but in fairness, I wouldn't blame them if they pulled out, given they're first time parents with a premature baby.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 06:34:19 AM
I'm glad the baby seems ok. I personally think you are being far too nice to your former friend (sending the gift and everything), but that's just me.

I also doubt they'll attend the baby party, but in fairness, I wouldn't blame them if they pulled out, given they're first time parents with a premature baby.

I have wondered if I'm being too nice, but I bought the present when I first found out and everything was only just starting to get weird and I thought it might blow over. So, it seems a shame not to actually give it to them. I don't have anyone else who needs it and it would just be a waste in my cupboard. However I definitely don't want to go round and call on them so I figured the post was the best thing.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Perfect Circle on June 08, 2011, 08:44:26 AM
I wouldn't send it.

I'd give it to them if they turn up at the baby party. But otherwise I wouldn't bother.

The ball is entirely in their corner. They need to repair the damage they've done, not you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: gramma dishes on June 08, 2011, 09:49:41 AM
I don't think you need to send it, but I do think it would be a very nice (and particularly in this case) generous gesture.  You did purchase it with this particular baby in mind, and I think sending it puts you on the high road whether or not you ever see these people again.  At the very least, you will know you did everything possible to keep the friendship intact.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 11:34:12 AM
OP again,

So she has just texted me from the hospital with an update on the baby. Now breathing normally and feeding, they will check her again tomorrow, hope to go home in a couple of days, "please say hi to everyone for us, X"

I just really don't get it at all. Now they want to be friends again??
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: gramma dishes on June 08, 2011, 11:52:43 AM
Is there even a remote possibility that this has actually been a troublesome pregnancy and they may have felt they wanted to sort of withdraw a little until they were absolutely certain that everything was going to be okay?  If something had gone horribly wrong, it's difficult to repeat the sad story over and over with various friends.

Or maybe they really weren't terribly enthusiastic about having a baby at all, but now that she's here and they've fallen in love with her, they feel more like their "old" selves?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Daffydilly on June 08, 2011, 11:54:01 AM
After all the mixed messages you've received, I'd let go. If she wants to approach a real friendship again, respond to her overtures and let her make the effort. I'd be totally confused at this point to be honest. Actions speak louder than words and she's avoided you for months.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on June 08, 2011, 11:56:59 AM
OP again,

So she has just texted me from the hospital with an update on the baby. Now breathing normally and feeding, they will check her again tomorrow, hope to go home in a couple of days, "please say hi to everyone for us, X"

I just really don't get it at all. Now they want to be friends again??

Perhaps they do.  You get to decide, however, if the way they treated you merits returning to the former status quo.  Gramma Dishes may be right; the couple were just too busy processing the reality of the baby to handle it well.

Or maybe they're shallow and selfish and think it will just all be normal again when they start acting differently.  

Or maybe their behavior was inexcusable and apologies and explanations (if tendered) are not enough.

  
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 08, 2011, 12:07:38 PM
Well guys, she's had the baby!  It was a little girl, born 4 weeks early, slight problem with her lungs so will be in special care for a few days but nothing serious.

She sent an email at 8am this morning to our church home group (the one they no longer attend) saying "hi there, well baby couldn't wait till I finished work and went on maternity leave. Baby was born 24 hours ago, (name and weight) and is adorable but could you pray for her because of a slight lung problem, she is in special care for a few days but we want to be able to feed and cuddle her asap, thanks".

I replied just saying "congratulations, and such a beautiful name! Hope she's fighting fit asap so you can cuddle her x". She has just come back with "many thanks"

This is not judging, just commenting, that I checked their facebook pages, and family and coworkers have been congratulating them since yesterday so it seems we really were the last to know. I never would have imagined any of this before she got pregnant but hey, you can't predict everything. I am ok with it. Just still weird to think I won't be rushing over there to cuddle the baby and chat to her.

A friend from our social circle had emailed them last week to say we wanted to have a bit of a get together before the baby's arrival, as a celebration, suggesting a pudding party at someone's home. I wasn't part of the plan as I didn't think there was any point but this friend really wanted to try one more time. Didn't think they would agree but they said yes and suggested a date the week before she was due, so in 3 weeks time.  So, I was gearing up for how that would be.  Now I guess it will be a welcome baby event, if they still come!

I have a card and a babygro I plan to put in the post to them. It's a small present, because I feel like I want to be nice but not go too far, but I plan to post it, not go round personally. I think that's for the best.

I would think the family would be first to know.  I don't know why this is even an issue for your church group, who are now distant friends, to be the last to know? 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 08, 2011, 12:09:53 PM
OP again,

So she has just texted me from the hospital with an update on the baby. Now breathing normally and feeding, they will check her again tomorrow, hope to go home in a couple of days, "please say hi to everyone for us, X"

I just really don't get it at all. Now they want to be friends again??

Just let it go.  I have to say if you are considering being friends again, that you really don't have any respect for yourself given how you have been treated.  I think I predicted this awhile back - that they want something on THEIR terms, not yours and responding to them only enables their ability to continue to use you.  Honestly, you should not be initiating any contact whatsoever.  It is obviously still painful for you and to continue would be masochistic.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Hunter-Gatherer on June 08, 2011, 12:36:02 PM
Well guys, she's had the baby!  It was a little girl, born 4 weeks early, slight problem with her lungs so will be in special care for a few days but nothing serious.

She sent an email at 8am this morning to our church home group (the one they no longer attend) saying "hi there, well baby couldn't wait till I finished work and went on maternity leave. Baby was born 24 hours ago, (name and weight) and is adorable but could you pray for her because of a slight lung problem, she is in special care for a few days but we want to be able to feed and cuddle her asap, thanks".

I replied just saying "congratulations, and such a beautiful name! Hope she's fighting fit asap so you can cuddle her x". She has just come back with "many thanks"

This is not judging, just commenting, that I checked their facebook pages, and family and coworkers have been congratulating them since yesterday so it seems we really were the last to know. I never would have imagined any of this before she got pregnant but hey, you can't predict everything. I am ok with it. Just still weird to think I won't be rushing over there to cuddle the baby and chat to her.

A friend from our social circle had emailed them last week to say we wanted to have a bit of a get together before the baby's arrival, as a celebration, suggesting a pudding party at someone's home. I wasn't part of the plan as I didn't think there was any point but this friend really wanted to try one more time. Didn't think they would agree but they said yes and suggested a date the week before she was due, so in 3 weeks time.  So, I was gearing up for how that would be.  Now I guess it will be a welcome baby event, if they still come!

I have a card and a babygro I plan to put in the post to them. It's a small present, because I feel like I want to be nice but not go too far, but I plan to post it, not go round personally. I think that's for the best.

I would think the family would be first to know.  I don't know why this is even an issue for your church group, who are now distant friends, to be the last to know? 

And work would know right away because she wasn't on maternity leave yet.  She had to call out of work to go have the baby, so it only makes sense that they'd let work know right away that the baby was born and everything was OK.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 12:48:43 PM
Well guys, she's had the baby!  It was a little girl, born 4 weeks early, slight problem with her lungs so will be in special care for a few days but nothing serious.

She sent an email at 8am this morning to our church home group (the one they no longer attend) saying "hi there, well baby couldn't wait till I finished work and went on maternity leave. Baby was born 24 hours ago, (name and weight) and is adorable but could you pray for her because of a slight lung problem, she is in special care for a few days but we want to be able to feed and cuddle her asap, thanks".

I replied just saying "congratulations, and such a beautiful name! Hope she's fighting fit asap so you can cuddle her x". She has just come back with "many thanks"

This is not judging, just commenting, that I checked their facebook pages, and family and coworkers have been congratulating them since yesterday so it seems we really were the last to know. I never would have imagined any of this before she got pregnant but hey, you can't predict everything. I am ok with it. Just still weird to think I won't be rushing over there to cuddle the baby and chat to her.

A friend from our social circle had emailed them last week to say we wanted to have a bit of a get together before the baby's arrival, as a celebration, suggesting a pudding party at someone's home. I wasn't part of the plan as I didn't think there was any point but this friend really wanted to try one more time. Didn't think they would agree but they said yes and suggested a date the week before she was due, so in 3 weeks time.  So, I was gearing up for how that would be.  Now I guess it will be a welcome baby event, if they still come!

I have a card and a babygro I plan to put in the post to them. It's a small present, because I feel like I want to be nice but not go too far, but I plan to post it, not go round personally. I think that's for the best.

I would think the family would be first to know.  I don't know why this is even an issue for your church group, who are now distant friends, to be the last to know?  

Hi there,

It's not an issue, I just meant to illustrate that we are now distant friends and how much things really have changed from the way things used to be, that's all.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 12:53:37 PM
OP again,

So she has just texted me from the hospital with an update on the baby. Now breathing normally and feeding, they will check her again tomorrow, hope to go home in a couple of days, "please say hi to everyone for us, X"

I just really don't get it at all. Now they want to be friends again??

Just let it go.  I have to say if you are considering being friends again, that you really don't have any respect for yourself given how you have been treated.  I think I predicted this awhile back - that they want something on THEIR terms, not yours and responding to them only enables their ability to continue to use you.  Honestly, you should not be initiating any contact whatsoever.  It is obviously still painful for you and to continue would be masochistic.

Hi Sparksals,

I'm not considering us being friends again, but as they are playing hot and cold and others in our circle are still trying with them, I don't want to be the "bad person". I want us to be on speaking terms and able to be polite if they do come back around our social circle now, but would never, ever, be close with them again.

The friend who was organising the get together for them phoned me earlier as she is trying to get a rota together of people who want to drop meals round for them etc. I told her I can't do it. I will send them a card and i have responded to the email with congratulations but I cannot go out of my way to do stuff for them when they honestly won't appreciate it.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 08, 2011, 12:59:51 PM
I think that is a good plan.  Don't waste any energy on them at all.   Declining the baby rota is a good thing.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Danika on June 08, 2011, 02:17:09 PM
The friend who was organising the get together for them phoned me earlier as she is trying to get a rota together of people who want to drop meals round for them etc. I told her I can't do it. I will send them a card and i have responded to the email with congratulations but I cannot go out of my way to do stuff for them when they honestly won't appreciate it.

Good for you!

I agree that there's no need to drop by. If you choose to give them the original gift, mail is the best option. But don't force yourself to send it, either, if you don't want to. Sometimes, it's a fine line between "being the bigger person" and "being a doormat."
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 08, 2011, 03:43:30 PM
The friend who was organising the get together for them phoned me earlier as she is trying to get a rota together of people who want to drop meals round for them etc. I told her I can't do it. I will send them a card and i have responded to the email with congratulations but I cannot go out of my way to do stuff for them when they honestly won't appreciate it.

Good for you!

I agree that there's no need to drop by. If you choose to give them the original gift, mail is the best option. But don't force yourself to send it, either, if you don't want to. Sometimes, it's a fine line between "being the bigger person" and "being a doormat."

I got lucky! We had our church group at my place tonight and someone had brought a card for everyone to sign which they will drop through this couple's door tomorrow. So I don't have any need to send anything individually from me now! Relieved!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 08, 2011, 11:01:17 PM
The friend who was organising the get together for them phoned me earlier as she is trying to get a rota together of people who want to drop meals round for them etc. I told her I can't do it. I will send them a card and i have responded to the email with congratulations but I cannot go out of my way to do stuff for them when they honestly won't appreciate it.

Good for you!

I agree that there's no need to drop by. If you choose to give them the original gift, mail is the best option. But don't force yourself to send it, either, if you don't want to. Sometimes, it's a fine line between "being the bigger person" and "being a doormat."

Can I just say that I love this last line?

OP, I agree that you should not initiate contact with your friend. If she tries to communicate as though nothing has happened, and you are open to re-establishing the friendship, I recommend you tell her firmly that the way she treated you was completely unacceptable, and you will only consider being friends again if she gives you a huge and genuine apology.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Nemesis on June 08, 2011, 11:17:21 PM
Well to be honest, I'm not surprised that her co-workers and family knew first.

Co-workers because she went into labour while at work - so that's probably gonna spread like wildfire in the office. My co-workers knew before many of my friends because I was admitted into the hospital on Friday morning when I went into labour 2 weeks early. We had to tell my boss that I wasn't coming back! My colleagues sent out a mass email telling everyone to divert all traffic (work and emails) from me to everyone else XD

Family had to know since we were supposed to be having dinner with my in-laws on Friday evening and obviously that had to be cancelled. And since we had to tell my in laws, we had to call my parents too.

Friends found out when I Facebook-ed from inside my delivery suite. Well, it was a LONG 24 hour labour. I even watched the World Cup quarter finals until the contractions got too bad. Fun stuff.

Anyway, just to say this: it could be any number of things that caused your friend to turn away from you. Difficult pregnancy, raging hormones or simply just a really bad friend. Let things slide. If she was always like this before the pregnancy, then it's probably the latter. Otherwise, if she returns to "normal" someday (typically 2-3 months after the birth of the baby), I do hope she will apologize for her "craziness" and that you will welcome her back into your fold.

I have to admit, I will probably be very forgiving towards your friend. This is because I experienced a fairly difficult pregnancy whereby I needed to undergo a surgery in my first trimester and risk a miscarriage (or refuse the surgery and risk losing the baby + damage my uterus). No one knew about it except for very close friends and immediate family. Also, my baby almost died at birth. We didn't share that with anyone except for the immediate circle for at least 6 months. I am now comfortable with talking about it, but during that time I practically secluded myself. Oh yeah, and I had pretty severe PPD and was acting CRAZY for at least 2 months (and crying every night). I figured that it was better to seclude myself than to say horrible things and hurt people. My hormones stabilised about 2 months after the birth of Angel, and I started calling up friends again. I barely explained myself, only to say that I wasn't ready and it was a hormonal time for me. I'm lucky that most of them understood.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Animala on June 08, 2011, 11:28:28 PM
Possibly a dumb question here, but what is a pudding party?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 09, 2011, 01:47:24 AM
Possibly a dumb question here, but what is a pudding party?

Pudding as in dessert - people bring stuff to share :-)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: MC Clapyohanz on June 09, 2011, 01:56:39 AM
Possibly a dumb question here, but what is a pudding party?

Pudding as in dessert - people bring stuff to share :-)

Oooh, that's the kind of potluck I want to be invited to! I loooove dessert! :)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Winterlight on June 09, 2011, 08:26:47 AM
I would stick with polite but distant and see how things fall out.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sammycat on June 10, 2011, 02:56:41 AM
For me, it would be too little, too late.

I wouldn't be attending any get togethers (glad to see you're not), sending any presents or cards, making meals etc. 

As another poster said, there's a difference between being the bigger person and being a doormat.  This is not a "bigger person" scenario IMO. This is a keeping my self respect situation.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 10, 2011, 10:25:43 AM
For me, it would be too little, too late.

I wouldn't be attending any get togethers (glad to see you're not), sending any presents or cards, making meals etc. 

As another poster said, there's a difference between being the bigger person and being a doormat.  This is not a "bigger person" scenario IMO. This is a keeping my self respect situation.

So very, VERY true!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 10, 2011, 12:11:00 PM
Thanks so much for all your responses, they are really helpful.

As it stands at the moment baby was born 5am Tuesday. Our home group from church (which baby couple dropped off from months ago) were emailed by baby friend on Wednesday morning to say baby had been born and to ask for prayer as she was a little poorly with her lungs. This was 5 people out of our wider circle of about 20. I think it was positive they wanted to reach out I guess, but also a bit confusing they chose us after everything.  I then got a text from from baby friend later that day saying the baby was doing much better, and then our little group got another email again that night saying they hoped to go home the following day but needed to be checked again.  I replied to the original email with a 'congratulations, lovely name, hoped she was better asap' etc, I replied to the text with 'that's great news, I will let the group know' and didn't reply to the third email as I saw other people had already.

They don't seem to have contacted anyone else.

Word has spread slowly amongst the wider social circle because someone texted ex-friend on Thursday thinking she might be on maternity leave now just perhaps maybe it would be worth seeing if they could meet for coffee. She got a reply saying thanks but actually baby was born Tues so that wouldn't be possible.  This lady then enquired amongst other friends if people knew about the birth and that's how it's got around.  I didn't tell other people, apart from the person who'd planned on organising the party for them before the birth (who then suggested we get together a meal rota to drop round food) because I figured it wasn't my news to tell. I told meal rota friend I couldn't help out.  I also decided not to send a card or present but simply sign a joint one from our home group instead.

Another friend also had the same idea about dropping meals round and contacted the husband to ask when they would like stuff. She then sent out an email to our whole social circle asking for volunteers for freezable meals and baked goods and treats. Baby couple have said family will be staying for a few weeks but that they would welcome things after that.  I have ignored the email. I can see two people have replied so I feel ok about that.  One other person did email me to say they didn't feel comfortable doing that for them, given their past behaviour and was I going to because they didn't want to be the only one who said no, so it's not just me that finds it a bit weird.

It's now Friday and no one has heard anything else. No photo on facebook, nothing to say they have gone home or that baby's health is fine now. I get that they have a new baby, it's overwhelming, they are extemely busy and tired, but after telling us she was poorly and asking us to pray for her I kind of think an update would be polite. Ah well.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Perfect Circle on June 10, 2011, 12:20:50 PM
I have to say that it isn't strange they haven't contacted you since Wednesday - they've got a newborn and sometimes getting adjusted to that means that you can just about make it out of bed and contacting people to update them is the last thing on your mind. Plus they did text you to tell that the baby was doing better - have they done this to other people? Perhaps others got the same text.

Otherwise I think you are just fine - don't put yourself out for people who don't seem to care.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 10, 2011, 12:23:16 PM
You're wasting too much emotional energy on this.  It is a weird situation.  For your own sanity and self respect, do what you need to let.it.go.

Not contributing to the food donations is a very good start. 

Do you feel you have had closure on this?   If not, what will it take for you to have it?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LadyL on June 10, 2011, 12:47:16 PM
 I didn't tell other people, apart from the person who'd planned on organising the party for them before the birth (who then suggested we get together a meal rota to drop round food) because I figured it wasn't my news to tell. I told meal rota friend I couldn't help out.  I also decided not to send a card or present but simply sign a joint one from our home group instead.

Another friend also had the same idea about dropping meals round and contacted the husband to ask when they would like stuff. She then sent out an email to our whole social circle asking for volunteers for freezable meals and baked goods and treats. Baby couple have said family will be staying for a few weeks but that they would welcome things after that.  I have ignored the email. I can see two people have replied so I feel ok about that.  One other person did email me to say they didn't feel comfortable doing that for them, given their past behaviour and was I going to because they didn't want to be the only one who said no, so it's not just me that finds it a bit weird.

It's now Friday and no one has heard anything else. No photo on facebook, nothing to say they have gone home or that baby's health is fine now. I get that they have a new baby, it's overwhelming, they are extemely busy and tired, but after telling us she was poorly and asking us to pray for her I kind of think an update would be polite. Ah well.

I am wondering if the second friend soliciting volunteers is unaware of how the couple had been behaving leading up to the birth of their child? Or if they think they deserve the help despite their behavior? I understand that it's a church community but usually when someone stops supporting the group, the group also retracts support a bit as well. It just seems to perpetuate the awkwardness to ask people who've been burned by the ex-friend to deliver meals to them.

I would also distance yourself from the situation - maybe stop responding to ex-friend's texts, delete emails from other friends about meal drop offs, etc. You have no obligation to be involved besides a perfunctory congrats, which you've already expressed to them.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 12, 2011, 03:18:42 AM

Baby couple have said family will be staying for a few weeks but that they would welcome things after that.  


Wow, that's pretty brazen. To treat your church group badly, then happily state you will accept offers of food/help in a few weeks' time.

I think you're doing the right thing, in not sending them gifts and food. I hope you can put this situation (and these people) behind you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 13, 2011, 12:51:48 PM
Thanks guys.

I have said no to providing meals or baked goods and have not responded to photos that are now up on facebook and the post to everyone they are FB friends with saying 'visitors would be very welcome'.

Have noticed that quite a few people in our social circle have done the same.

Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: GeauxTigers on June 13, 2011, 05:02:59 PM
Quote
Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.

OP, even if they do "contact you directly with an apology", exactly what is it that you expect or want to happen as a result? It looks like the distancing (on their end) began over 9 months ago - it appears that they've certainly moved on and have other priorities. This doesn't exclude rudeness or other inappropriate behavior, but there's really no reason to give this couple all that parking space in your head - you're putting in a lot more emotionally into this "friendship" than you're receiving.  Let it go.

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 13, 2011, 05:27:24 PM
Quote
Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.

OP, even if they do "contact you directly with an apology", exactly what is it that you expect or want to happen as a result? It looks like the distancing (on their end) began over 9 months ago - it appears that they've certainly moved on and have other priorities. This doesn't exclude rudeness or other inappropriate behavior, but there's really no reason to give this couple all that parking space in your head - you're putting in a lot more emotionally into this "friendship" than you're receiving.  Let it go.



What an interesting way to put that!! So very true. 

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 13, 2011, 05:51:44 PM
Quote
Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.

OP, even if they do "contact you directly with an apology", exactly what is it that you expect or want to happen as a result? It looks like the distancing (on their end) began over 9 months ago - it appears that they've certainly moved on and have other priorities. This doesn't exclude rudeness or other inappropriate behavior, but there's really no reason to give this couple all that parking space in your head - you're putting in a lot more emotionally into this "friendship" than you're receiving.  Let it go.



Sorry, yeah, I mean that is the only circumstances under which I would interact with them other than the bare minumum of social politeness. Does that make sense? I don't expect anything, honest.  I don't feel like I'm emotionally involved anymore, I feel more like an observer watching the situation, like a puzzle.  But maybe that I'm even doing that means I'm still tied to it.

I think it's because they are still on the fringes of my social life and church life and some friends (though by no means all) are still trying to make an effort with them because they never had a falling out, this couple just got distant, so it's kind of hard to just pretend someone doesn't exist I guess. Like, tonight, 2 friends have posted on FB about how they called round to see the baby.

But honest, truly, a million times I am not pining over them, I'm just fascinated in a bizarre way, like a bad movie you know is terrible but you cant turn off cos you want to know what happens!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Danika on June 13, 2011, 07:11:13 PM
I think it's because they are still on the fringes of my social life and church life and some friends (though by no means all) are still trying to make an effort with them because they never had a falling out, this couple just got distant, so it's kind of hard to just pretend someone doesn't exist I guess. Like, tonight, 2 friends have posted on FB about how they called round to see the baby.

When several people are very close friends and there's a falling out, they are no longer friends. But acquaintances are not as involved or tied up in a close friendship so they can remain acquaintances. You were closer to the situation, like closer to a fire, so you felt the burn and pain and have backed off. But people who were only marginally acquainted with them did not notice much change in behavior and therefore aren't hurt and have no need to back off.

I've seen it on FB because you can see who is friends with whom. In my group of friends and acquaintances from college, I can see that, let's say Bob and Jim were best buds in college and they also knew people A, B, C and D. Now, both Bob and Jim are friends with A, B, C and D but Bob and Jim aren't friends with each other. I'm sure there's more backstory and there was a falling out. But A, B, C and D didn't really keep in touch with Bob and Jim after college so when they found each of them on FB, they had no problem just being friends with both. I can think of at least 7 examples of friends/groups from high school, college or afterwards where this is the case with my FB friends. The acquaintances are all on friendly terms, but two formerly super close friends are no longer friends with each other.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 13, 2011, 10:11:35 PM
Thanks guys.

I have said no to providing meals or baked goods and have not responded to photos that are now up on facebook and the post to everyone they are FB friends with saying 'visitors would be very welcome'.

Have noticed that quite a few people in our social circle have done the same.

Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.

Good for you Samgirl. Stay strong.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 22, 2011, 05:18:51 PM
Thanks guys.

I have said no to providing meals or baked goods and have not responded to photos that are now up on facebook and the post to everyone they are FB friends with saying 'visitors would be very welcome'.

Have noticed that quite a few people in our social circle have done the same.

Unless they contact me directly with an apology and a wish to see me specifically then I am ignoring everything to do with them. Even then I would have to be very very cool.

Good for you Samgirl. Stay strong.

I was awesome tonight I think!  Our big social group was due to hold a bit of a do to celebrate the impending baby arrival (suggested and organised by another friend). Then baby arrived early and it was decided to stick with the party and if baby friends came too then people could celebrate that as well, if not, it was an excuse to get together with everyone.  

I was not involved in the organising and was only there see my friends and chat and because 2 of our group are students who were leaving now their course was finished and I wanted to say goodbye.  I did not expect baby friend and her husband to come because, well, they have a newborn and their track record is not to show up. However, show up they did and stayed for an hour, chatting to various people quite happily!

There were about 25 people at someone's house and so it was crowded and very easy to just be at the other end of the room chatting and mingling with other people. When they arrived they did a general 'hi everyone' and smiled around the room and showed off the baby. I smiled back (out of politeness, nothing more) but they both looked at me and looked away so for the rest of the evening and made sure I was always chatting to someone and didn't approach them. Ran into baby friend at the drinks table and she said hi, how are you, I said fine thanks, you're looking well, and went on my way.  When they left she did wave goodbye to everyone, including me. Husband looked at everyone except me. Very strange.

But that's exactly what they were. Strangers who happened to be at the party and had a baby with them. I didn't coo over the baby or ask to hold it because it was a stranger's baby and seemed odd to do.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: ShadesOfGrey on June 22, 2011, 07:02:31 PM
good for you! I'm glad you're setting healthy boundaries and can see them as they truly are.  ((hug)) because it's hard.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Danika on June 22, 2011, 10:36:35 PM
I kept saying "good" aloud, as I read your update. Weird that the husband actually didn't make eye contact as he left. But, oh well. Their behavior clearly was not about you specifically. They burned their bridges and I think you handled this beautifully and respected yourself!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sparksals on June 23, 2011, 11:47:38 AM
I'm really happy to hear this update, OP.  It sounds like you are on the road to detaching and setting your boundaries. 

The lack of eye contact from the husband is very interesting. 
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 23, 2011, 12:20:04 PM
I'm really happy to hear this update, OP.  It sounds like you are on the road to detaching and setting your boundaries. 

The lack of eye contact from the husband is very interesting. 

It was most odd! He either spoke or waved over to everyone there and so I was all prepared to smile back and say 'bye' but he could not have avoided my eyes more!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: evely28 on June 23, 2011, 12:35:33 PM
I'm really happy to hear this update, OP.  It sounds like you are on the road to detaching and setting your boundaries. 

The lack of eye contact from the husband is very interesting. 

It was most odd! He either spoke or waved over to everyone there and so I was all prepared to smile back and say 'bye' but he could not have avoided my eyes more!

Guilty conscience maybe?
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Danika on June 23, 2011, 02:38:29 PM
I'm really happy to hear this update, OP.  It sounds like you are on the road to detaching and setting your boundaries. 

The lack of eye contact from the husband is very interesting. 

It was most odd! He either spoke or waved over to everyone there and so I was all prepared to smile back and say 'bye' but he could not have avoided my eyes more!

Guilty conscience maybe?

I'm thinking yes.

Also, I remember he came to coffee with pregnant-wife and Samgirl2 way back when, it seemed to prevent pregnant-wife from talking honestly and telling Samgirl2 why they were avoiding everyone. I wonder if he's the kind of guy who feels a little entitled. Like he can withdraw from his friends but then if they feel hurt or upset and back away as a result, he gets mad at them. Samgirl2 would know more. I might be projecting because I'm in the middle of reading a book about abusive men who try to isolate their partners from their friends and support system and also get up in a huff if people stand up for themselves when they get their feelings hurt.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: Dindrane on June 23, 2011, 09:23:22 PM
I was thinking it probably makes them a little uncomfortable when they look back at the past few months.  Even people who are unwilling to admit to any fault can feel uncomfortable when it's obvious a friendship ended, and discomfort very often leads to avoidance.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 23, 2011, 10:25:00 PM
I was thinking it probably makes them a little uncomfortable when they look back at the past few months.  Even people who are unwilling to admit to any fault can feel uncomfortable when it's obvious a friendship ended, and discomfort very often leads to avoidance.

Agreed. It's much easier for this couple to simply avoid Samgirl, rather than face her honestly and admit they behaved hurtfully towards her.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #235
Post by: sammycat on June 24, 2011, 03:17:02 AM
I was thinking it probably makes them a little uncomfortable when they look back at the past few months.  Even people who are unwilling to admit to any fault can feel uncomfortable when it's obvious a friendship ended, and discomfort very often leads to avoidance.

Agreed. It's much easier for this couple to simply avoid Samgirl, rather than face her honestly and admit they behaved hurtfully towards her.

I agree with you two.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Samgirl2 on February 06, 2013, 10:59:40 AM
Hi All, OP here.

I know this thread is really old now but there was a bit of a development and now an ending if anyone's interested.

My friend had the baby June 2011 and apart from the party they came to with the new baby where they completely, and obviously ignored me (see earlier posts), they went on to have no contact with anyone from our social circle until January 2012 when the husband rejoined the rota for church activities that both he and I were mutually involved in.

At the first meeting it turned out that we were the first to arrive and I was quite nervous of what to say, as it had been getting on for a year since I had spoken to them, but he was totally fine, normal 'hey, how's things, how is everything going' etc and then throughout the meeting it was as if nothing had ever happened and he had never been away.  That sunday they both came to church with the baby, but while he stayed to chat to people , she left immediately and spoke to no one.

They started coming to church semi-regularly after that and I saw him once a month at activities and he was fine, friendly, chatty. My friend, his wife, never spoke to me and I must admit I didn't try to go over and speak to her either. Some others did but she blew them off. She looked amazing though, she was even smaller than she was before the baby, had a new wardrobe and new haircut and looked very glam. Not like someone who was depressed or having problems adjusting to life with a baby etc, which is what I had thought might be the problem.

A few months on, so summer 2012, I was packing some stuff away after the service and she came over and said 'hey you, how are you?' I was completely taken a back and it was a slightly awkward convo. I asked how she was, was she back at work now etc and she answered but not in a chatty way and then said she had to rush off.  It felt like major progress in that she came over herself, but at the same time it was awkward.  Anyway, she did this to a couple of people over the next few weeks and so we started to invite them to social events again, but only child-friendly ones so they could bring the baby who was 1 by now. However they never responded.

By October she had stopped coming to church again as well, but her husband continued. Then at Christmas they sent an email to another friend in response to him trying to organise the next activity rotas with the husband, to say that they would no longer be coming and were going to attend a church in another town nearby. No explanation though, and they had been involved in our church and activities for about 8 years.

So, all in all, pretty weird. Was it us, was it me, was it church or was it something personal going on with them? Either way, we are unlikely to ever speak to them again.  They are still facebook friends with all of us, haven't updated either of their pages in almost 2 years. I'd like to tie this up and delete them etc, but I'm not sure. I don't know why, it's not like they would care. Maybe it's just because I'm nosey and hope one daye they'll start updating again!
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Twik on February 06, 2013, 11:18:36 AM
It sounds like something strange going on with them, not you. They clearly are not into interacting with a wide circle of friends.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Lynn2000 on February 06, 2013, 11:27:53 AM
Thanks for coming back and updating us! I often wonder what happens in threads.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Danika on February 06, 2013, 03:23:58 PM
Yes, thanks for the update. It definitely sounds like something going on with them. Maybe something happened that they are embarrassed about or didn't want people to know and they didn't want to discuss it. Strange.

I had a few Facebook friends like this and about 3 weeks ago, I finally did a Facebook purge and defriended them. I decided that even if they did start updating, I'd already put far too much effort into a one-sided friendship.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: LifeOnPluto on February 06, 2013, 08:32:14 PM
I remember this thread. Very interesting update. Totally agree that something odd and personal must have been going on with them.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: sammycat on February 06, 2013, 11:51:12 PM
Thanks for the update. I'm with everyone else who says the problem is with them, not you/other friends etc. I know it can be hard, but I wouldn't take any of their actions personally. They seem to be treating everyone the same (badly), so it seems there's something going on with them.

I understand the being nosy part if they ever decide to update facebook, but personally I'd just go ahead and defriend them and move on. It sounds as though they have (and not just towards you, but most/all of that circle). 

She looked amazing though, she was even smaller than she was before the baby, had a new wardrobe and new haircut and looked very glam. Not like someone who was depressed or having problems adjusting to life with a baby etc, which is what I had thought might be the problem.

Looks can be deceiving. The most 'glamorous' looking woman in our mother and baby group was suffering severe PND, not that you'd know it to look at her. She also started behaving like your ex-friend, so I wouldn't necessarily rule out depression or anything along those lines.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Sparkle Star on March 28, 2013, 07:43:49 AM
I'm late to the thread having noticed it because of the update, so it's been interesting to read it through in its entirety.
(Kept me entertained over my lunch break!  :D )

For what it's worth, my view is that whatever has been going on is definitely their problem and not yours, Samgirl.
This latest update is an opportunity to draw a line under the whole thing.
I would unfriend them on FB - they won't be notified and if they're not using their accounts are unlikely to know. Even if they do notice, so what? There is nothing wrong with culling people you're no longer true friends with.

I think your behaviour has been sensible and dignified and I hope you can let this go now and focus on friendships with those who appreciate it.  :)
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: Samgirl2 on June 14, 2014, 03:58:30 PM
OP here. I know this thread is so old now but I ran into my former friend today. The first time anyone has seen her since the end of 2012.

I deleted her and her husband from my facebook over a year ago and while a few other friends are still linked with them on there, they have not posted anything since 2011.

We had actually wondered if they had moved away, because we all used to bump into each other all the time around town and no one had seen anything of them.

Anyway, I was out shopping today and browsing around a store when I was aware of someone coming towards me between the rails. I looked up, thinking I would move out of their way, and this person also looked up and stared at me. I suddenly realised it was my former friend (she looked totally different - cropped hair) and she realised who I was. Just as I was wondering what to do she looked away and turned towards rails on the other side of the store.

I was so taken by surprise I didn't know what to do so I took the clothes I was holding and went to the fitting room. When I came out she was gone.

I actually felt nauseous. Like running into an ex who totally blanks you.

Crazy.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Psychopoesie on June 14, 2014, 04:54:15 PM
Hugs, samgirl2. So sorry this happened to you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: gramma dishes on June 14, 2014, 06:29:05 PM
It's her.  Not you.

(((hugs)))
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: LifeOnPluto on June 14, 2014, 10:45:23 PM
I remember this thread. I suspect she blanked you because she was embarrassed with her previous behaviour.

Pretty cowardly, but not surprising, sadly.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Otterpop on June 14, 2014, 11:07:07 PM
Thanks for the update OP.  You did fine throughout the whole ordeal.  That woman's got issues.  Consider yourself well rid. (((hugs)))
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Marga on June 14, 2014, 11:08:57 PM
I just found this thread and while reading it my jaw dropped. What is wrong with that couple?

Well, I don't think you'll ever know.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Danika on June 16, 2014, 12:36:14 AM
I sometimes wonder what happened. Thanks for the update. How strange. And it's definitely her, not you.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #279
Post by: FauxFoodist on June 16, 2014, 02:06:05 AM
OP here. I know this thread is so old now but I ran into my former friend today. The first time anyone has seen her since the end of 2012.

I deleted her and her husband from my facebook lover a year ago and while a few other friends are still linked with them on there, they have not posted anything since 2011.

We had actually wondered if they had moved away, because we all used to bump into each other all the time around town and no one had seen anything of them.

Anyway, I was out shopping today and browsing around a store when I was aware of someone coming towards me between the rails. I looked up, thinking I would move out of their way, and this person also looked up and stared at me. I suddenly realised it was my former friend (she looked totally different - cropped hair) and she realised who I was. Just as I was wondering what to do she looked away and turned towards rails on the other side of the store.

I was so taken by surprise I didn't know what to do so I took the clothes I was holding and went to the fitting room. When I came out she was gone.

I actually felt nauseous. Like running into an ex who totally blanks you.

Crazy.

I think you did well.  She freaked and, as far as she could see, you ignored her wacko-ness and continued with your shopping.
Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: Curly Wurly Doggie Breath on June 16, 2014, 02:33:40 AM
((((((((((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))

Title: Re: Apologies ignored and friendship not what I thought?? Update #285
Post by: cicero on June 16, 2014, 04:19:48 AM
It's her.  Not you.

(((hugs)))
so this.

and this:
Thanks for the update OP.  You did fine throughout the whole ordeal.  That woman's got issues.  Consider yourself well rid. (((hugs)))

and extra hugs.