Etiquette Hell

Etiquette School is in session! => "Why would I want to do that?" => Topic started by: tallone on July 26, 2011, 12:22:15 AM

Title: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: tallone on July 26, 2011, 12:22:15 AM
Howdy all,

Oh the drama, oh the drama, oh the drama. I do so love to bring my tales of woe here and bask in eHell's collective wisdom.

BG
For a couple months now I've been aware that someone in my circle of friends hates me with the fire of a thousand suns. Not a total shock considering the bad blood we've had in the past but definitely more extreme than I expected.

We didn't get along in high school, at all. Two guys, very similar, disliked each other from the start and in the same circle of friends for years...we did not always play nice. Quite often we would get in an argument and stand around insulting each other or generally be passive aggressive about things. After high school I decided to give my little "frenemy" the benefit of a clean slate and started treating him like any of my other friends. That seemed to work until of course I found out that it didn't. I don't like the way I treated him any more than I like the way he treated me so I've been trying to make amends for that. I have probably the bigger share of the blame because I am very good at insulting people I don't like and unfortunately that gave me an advantage that made it pretty one sided. Please don't take that as flippant; it is one of my major character flaws and I'm working on it.

My strategy for making amends has been to treat him like any other friend. It hasn't really worked, he won't stop trying to insult me and provoke an argument/fight. I have bean dipped, left conversations and ignored him until I was blue in the face...but I also haven't retaliated in about twelve months. We've seen each other maybe twenty times in that period. That might seem door mat-ish but I take it as my penance, I really have been terrible to him in the past. I thought he'd get over it eventually and start treating me nicely too but now I'm just gunning for mutual politeness and civility at some point.

End BG

TallFiancee and I had travelled up from MyCity to HomeTown for my friend A's 21st birthday dinner. It was a great night, everyone had fun and the newly designated "P" (my frenemy) was basically behaving himself. Towards the end of the dinner however we started chatting about high school and all the cool things we'd done with A over the years. (Quick BG: A was my best friend growing up so I was seated at her right hand, Tallfiancee at mine. P was a little further down the table past A to my left. This was a long table; about fifteen people were in attendance). A's little sister had prompted the topic on the ruse that she wanted to know more about what her sister got up to in high school but really so A could hear all her friends say nice things about her. It was really sweet of her. We were all chatting with the people near us so the table was sort of split into different conversations along it.

I'm telling a story about A when I noticed Tallfiancee frowning so after I finish my saga I quetly ask her what is wrong. She tells me that she can hear P interrupting stories at the other end to badmouth me every time I'm mentioned; she can hear it, it's not nice and she's pissed. Please note: A and I were inseparable through highschool. There aren't many stories involving her or myself where the other doesn't get mentioned regularly. I shrug it off, I'm not paying attention to it and don't care either way so we get back to dinner.

After dinner A invites us back to her house for drinks and a few games of pool. Her house can literally function as a bar, right down to the jukebox full of 80's rock. Tallfiancee volunteered to be my designated driver because she wanted me to be free to have a great time for A's birthday. Isn't she the best? We were going to drop by a liquor store with A and another friend to get supplies before going back to A's house.

Now P had driven himself and was now loudly proclaiming that he wanted to drink and not drive as everyone piled into cars and headed to A's house. Since P was saying he wanted to drink his passenger went to find himself another ride to A's. That turned out to be the only spare seat except for in my car.

P approached me while A,  another friend and Tallfiancee were waiting in the car for me. I'd been taking orders for people who were going straight to A's house with A's sister while we went on a booze run. P's tone was very aggresive the whole time for this encounter:

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you?
Me: I'll see you over there.

And I left. Tallfiancee asked me what he wanted, I told her, she vehemently stated she would not be giving him a ride anywhere after what he was saying about me at dinner. Bad blood aside, it's poor form to insult someone behind their back and then demand they give you a lift somewhere. Bad blood included, if you hate someone and insult him behind his back and then demand he give you a lift somewhere you definitely deserve a place in eHell for your dread entitlement!
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Minmom3 on July 26, 2011, 12:38:21 AM
I think this falls under the category of Bed.  Made.   Lie...!!    8)

Also something about burning bridges....  ;)
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: rashea on July 26, 2011, 08:49:03 AM
Did you ever tell him that you wanted to start over and wipe the slate clean? If not, then I think it would be worth doing so.

I think it might have been a good idea to say that after what tallfiancee was hearing at dinner he had blown his chance at a ride that night.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Bibliophile on July 26, 2011, 08:59:01 AM
I too would've explained to him why Tallfiance wouldn't want to give him a ride.   I know it's a b-day party & you don't want the drama, but it seems like you're just postponing the inevitable.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: TurtleDove on July 26, 2011, 09:19:46 AM
I get the sense this would have been a short ride.  Sounds like P was a jerk, but I would have probably given him a ride.  Why feed the drama. 

I guess I'm not following the story though - did P want a ride to A's or a ride home from A's?  If no one was drunk before A's, why couldn't he drive his own car?
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on July 26, 2011, 09:20:38 AM
I too would've explained to him why Tallfiance wouldn't want to give him a ride.   I know it's a b-day party & you don't want the drama, but it seems like you're just postponing the inevitable.

POD. I think it would be entirely appropriate to say "Tallfiance overheard your commentary at dinner while I was telling stories about me and A in high school. Needless to say we'd both prefer not to give you a ride."

I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Master_Edward on July 26, 2011, 10:19:29 PM
I think it's obvious P is never going to like you. So I think you just shouldn't bother with him because it's a waste of time.

Ed.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on July 26, 2011, 10:27:53 PM
I certainly see no need to give P a ride.  If I were in a similar position as TallFiancee, I would not be inclined to allow P in *my* car. 

I've done favors like that before, and the boor in question just critiqued my driving. 
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: blue2000 on July 27, 2011, 07:09:58 AM
I get the sense this would have been a short ride.  Sounds like P was a jerk, but I would have probably given him a ride.  Why feed the drama. 

I guess I'm not following the story though - did P want a ride to A's or a ride home from A's?  If no one was drunk before A's, why couldn't he drive his own car?

He wanted to get drunk - therefore he needed a designated driver for a ride to and from A's house, rather than take his own car.

I'd pass on this one as well. If he can't behave when he is sober, he certainly won't when he is drunk, which means that would be one horrible ride. Let him call a taxi.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: rashea on July 27, 2011, 08:06:57 AM
If he can't behave when he is sober, he certainly won't when he is drunk,

That's a good point. I can only imagine what would happen if he started to drink and got even more obnoxious.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: tallone on July 27, 2011, 11:34:41 PM
I too would've explained to him why Tallfiance wouldn't want to give him a ride.   I know it's a b-day party & you don't want the drama, but it seems like you're just postponing the inevitable.

POD. I think it would be entirely appropriate to say "Tallfiance overheard your commentary at dinner while I was telling stories about me and A in high school. Needless to say we'd both prefer not to give you a ride."

I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."

This was actually what I tried, at first. He seemed to agree but I'm told that later he bragged about me being afraid of him and trying to get him to leave me alone before lamenting on all the terrible things I did he needs to pay me back for. First the tough bully and then the poor victim because who needs to make sense?

Eventually I thought "Fine, do your worst." and to be honest it doesn't bother me any more. I've got a devastatingly attractive woman by my side who gives me more compliments in a day than I get insults from him in a month.

Having Tallfiancee in my life drives me to be a better man and she's happy with me letting him take as many free hits as he likes, at least when she's not in ear shot. Retaliating in kind would for me feel like I was just as bad. I can't really avoid him so I practice my polite, distant smile and get on with my life.

If he can't behave when he is sober, he certainly won't when he is drunk,

That's a good point. I can only imagine what would happen if he started to drink and got even more obnoxious.

You have no idea... ::)
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Cattaby on July 29, 2011, 08:51:28 AM
I think you handled the situation extremely well and I admire that shiny spine of yours. It takes a lot of will to deny someone who asks you a favour to your face, so good on you to sticking up for yourself. How did the night end up by the way?
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: starry diadem on July 31, 2011, 12:24:49 PM
I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."

Excellent advice.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Roe on August 10, 2011, 08:42:19 AM
Did you ever tell him that you wanted to start over and wipe the slate clean? If not, then I think it would be worth doing so.
.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  OP, I think it's worth one more try.  And this time, let P in on it too.  He might surprise you.  After, if he still continues to "hate" you, well, then you tried.  I say it's worth it because it seems to me as if you will run into him quite a bit what with having the same circle of friends and all. 
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 10, 2011, 08:52:49 AM
Did you ever tell him that you wanted to start over and wipe the slate clean? If not, then I think it would be worth doing so.
.
Did you ever tell him that you wanted to start over and wipe the slate clean? If not, then I think it would be worth doing so.
.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  OP, I think it's worth one more try.  And this time, let P in on it too.  He might surprise you.  After, if he still continues to "hate" you, well, then you tried.  I say it's worth it because it seems to me as if you will run into him quite a bit what with having the same circle of friends and all. 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.  OP, I think it's worth one more try.  And this time, let P in on it too.  He might surprise you.  After, if he still continues to "hate" you, well, then you tried.  I say it's worth it because it seems to me as if you will run into him quite a bit what with having the same circle of friends and all. 

I think the OP's comments in post 11 constitute having tried this.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fluffy Cat on August 16, 2011, 01:22:11 AM


This was actually what I tried, at first. He seemed to agree but I'm told that later he bragged about me being afraid of him and trying to get him to leave me alone before lamenting on all the terrible things I did he needs to pay me back for. First the tough bully and then the poor victim because who needs to make sense?

Eventually I thought "Fine, do your worst." and to be honest it doesn't bother me any more. I've got a devastatingly attractive woman by my side who gives me more compliments in a day than I get insults from him in a month.

Having Tallfiancee in my life drives me to be a better man and she's happy with me letting him take as many free hits as he likes, at least when she's not in ear shot. Retaliating in kind would for me feel like I was just as bad. I can't really avoid him so I practice my polite, distant smile and get on with my life.


I've noticed a lot of your posts focus on your size and the hotness of your girlfriend (unless you're officially engaged now in which case, congrats!) and it is a little disconcerting to me.  If you truly think you've moved on from your (not abnormal) bad past behavior, then just don't associate with this person anymore and end the issue. You either aren't being as gracious and nice as you think, or, he isn't willing to let it go, or both.  Either way, I would drop the relationship entirely as it is clearly doing neither of you any good.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: TurtleDove on August 16, 2011, 09:05:16 AM
I think this is incredibly unfair. Many other posters refers to family members with variations of their own screen name. (babybartfast and babysqueak coming immediately to mind. Tallone referred to his girlfriend as "tallgirlfriend" for some time, and as I recall, they *are* engaged. Would you ask any other poster to change the way they refer to family?

I don't think the poster was referring to the use of the OP's screenname or that of "tallgirlfriend."  The poster was referring to continued references to the "new" size and confidence of the OP and the hotness of tallgirlfriend to provide context for the OP's actions.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 16, 2011, 09:13:16 AM
I think this is incredibly unfair. Many other posters refers to family members with variations of their own screen name. (babybartfast and babysqueak coming immediately to mind. Tallone referred to his girlfriend as "tallgirlfriend" for some time, and as I recall, they *are* engaged. Would you ask any other poster to change the way they refer to family?

I don't think the poster was referring to the use of the OP's screenname or that of "tallgirlfriend."  The poster was referring to continued references to the "new" size and confidence of the OP and the hotness of tallgirlfriend to provide context for the OP's actions.

Then the poster should have quoted a *relevant* portion, or none at all. To me, Tallone is simply referring to his fiancée. As I recall, also, Tallone is comparatively young, and his growth and confidence are factors both of the surety of someone close in his life and his own relative maturation. Nor do I recall excess commentary about girlfriend's hotness. The previous poster was making a mountain out of a molehill.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Peggy Gus on August 16, 2011, 10:00:28 AM
I think this is incredibly unfair. Many other posters refers to family members with variations of their own screen name. (babybartfast and babysqueak coming immediately to mind. Tallone referred to his girlfriend as "tallgirlfriend" for some time, and as I recall, they *are* engaged. Would you ask any other poster to change the way they refer to family?

I don't think the poster was referring to the use of the OP's screenname or that of "tallgirlfriend."  The poster was referring to continued references to the "new" size and confidence of the OP and the hotness of tallgirlfriend to provide context for the OP's actions.

Then the poster should have quoted a *relevant* portion, or none at all. To me, Tallone is simply referring to his fiancée. As I recall, also, Tallone is comparatively young, and his growth and confidence are factors both of the surety of someone close in his life and his own relative maturation. Nor do I recall excess commentary about girlfriend's hotness. The previous poster was making a mountain out of a molehill.

It is a trend of his to mention how hot his girlfriend is, I have seen it numerous times.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Red1979 on August 16, 2011, 10:09:51 AM
I think this is incredibly unfair. Many other posters refers to family members with variations of their own screen name. (babybartfast and babysqueak coming immediately to mind. Tallone referred to his girlfriend as "tallgirlfriend" for some time, and as I recall, they *are* engaged. Would you ask any other poster to change the way they refer to family?

I don't think the poster was referring to the use of the OP's screenname or that of "tallgirlfriend."  The poster was referring to continued references to the "new" size and confidence of the OP and the hotness of tallgirlfriend to provide context for the OP's actions.

Then the poster should have quoted a *relevant* portion, or none at all. To me, Tallone is simply referring to his fiancée. As I recall, also, Tallone is comparatively young, and his growth and confidence are factors both of the surety of someone close in his life and his own relative maturation. Nor do I recall excess commentary about girlfriend's hotness. The previous poster was making a mountain out of a molehill.

It is a trend of his to mention how hot his girlfriend is, I have seen it numerous times.

I have seen it as well, and frankly I find it very distracting.  If it's not a relevant detail in the story it's best to leave it out.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 16, 2011, 10:36:29 AM
I think this is incredibly unfair. Many other posters refers to family members with variations of their own screen name. (babybartfast and babysqueak coming immediately to mind. Tallone referred to his girlfriend as "tallgirlfriend" for some time, and as I recall, they *are* engaged. Would you ask any other poster to change the way they refer to family?

I don't think the poster was referring to the use of the OP's screenname or that of "tallgirlfriend."  The poster was referring to continued references to the "new" size and confidence of the OP and the hotness of tallgirlfriend to provide context for the OP's actions.

Then the poster should have quoted a *relevant* portion, or none at all. To me, Tallone is simply referring to his fiancée. As I recall, also, Tallone is comparatively young, and his growth and confidence are factors both of the surety of someone close in his life and his own relative maturation. Nor do I recall excess commentary about girlfriend's hotness. The previous poster was making a mountain out of a molehill.

It is a trend of his to mention how hot his girlfriend is, I have seen it numerous times.

I have seen it as well, and frankly I find it very distracting.  If it's not a relevant detail in the story it's best to leave it out.

Huh, I've always read the descriptions as a bit tongue in cheek/humorously over the top...not saying Tallone is exaggerating his fiance's looks, more that describing her as "devastatingly attractive" is so romance novel esque that it just read as humorous to me.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: MommyPenguin on August 16, 2011, 10:41:47 AM
Yeah, I thought it was just meant as humorous, and sort of a way of talking nicely about his girlfriend.  I'm nothing extraordinary to look at, but my husband tells me I'm hot, and he'll jokingly say something in passing to his friend about college, "But that was before I was married to this hot woman by my side," something like that.  It's meant as a way of talking flatteringly about one's girlfriend/spouse, more than a "I have a hot girlfriend so I must be the coolest person ever, neener neener neener."  Or, at least, maybe that's how I understood it because Tallone doesn't seem like a guy who thinks of women as trophies, based on his posts.  The only post in which he really seemed to be talking about his girlfriend's looks in a "look what I've got" way was in the one where he was in line for ice cream, and in that particular story the girlfriend's looks were a crucial point of the story (because the other guys in line were discussing her looks without knowing that she was attached to Tallone).  So I don't have a problem with it myself, although, Tallone, you might want to take note that some people find it disconcerting, and keep it in mind when you post.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: little bird on August 16, 2011, 10:44:01 AM

It is a trend of his to mention how hot his girlfriend is, I have seen it numerous times.

I have seen it as well, and frankly I find it very distracting.  If it's not a relevant detail in the story it's best to leave it out.

That may be, but I just reviewed both of Tallone's posts in this thread, and unless I missed it (possible), neither mentions that aspect.  So why bring this is up now, and here?

Lord knows, it's not like the way other posters have hijacked threads or been completely self-absorbed in their posting, to a *much* greater degree.

Well, it's in post #10. 
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 16, 2011, 10:55:49 AM

It is a trend of his to mention how hot his girlfriend is, I have seen it numerous times.

I have seen it as well, and frankly I find it very distracting.  If it's not a relevant detail in the story it's best to leave it out.

That may be, but I just reviewed both of Tallone's posts in this thread, and unless I missed it (possible), neither mentions that aspect.  So why bring this is up now, and here?

Lord knows, it's not like the way other posters have hijacked threads or been completely self-absorbed in their posting, to a *much* greater degree.

Well, it's in post #10. 

Conceded.  I was looking specifically for the term "hot", not the phrase "devastatingly attractive". 

Very well.  I will delete the previous posts. 
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Lisbeth on August 16, 2011, 11:09:15 AM
Ah, I think this thread is being hijacked with the complaints over the "hot" girlfriend descriptions.  That seems to me more appropriate for a PM.

Getting back on topic:  I agree that it wasn't necessary to give P a ride and I wouldn't have either.  But I do agree with the PP who said that if you want to have a "clean slate" with someone,  then don't keep it to yourself-make sure the other person knows that there have been problems that you're now willing to overlook.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 16, 2011, 11:10:09 AM
Ah, I think this thread is being hijacked with the complaints over the "hot" girlfriend descriptions.  That seems to me more appropriate for a PM.

Getting back on topic:  I agree that it wasn't necessary to give P a ride and I wouldn't have either.  But I do agree with the PP who said that if you want to have a "clean slate" with someone,  then don't keep it to yourself-make sure the other person knows that there have been problems that you're now willing to overlook.

See post 11. 

Edited to clarify that the reason for looking at Post 11 is Tallone's report of the results of having extended the "thorny olive branch". 

Lady L suggested:
I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."

Tallone replied:
This was actually what I tried, at first. He seemed to agree but I'm told that later he bragged about me being afraid of him and trying to get him to leave me alone before lamenting on all the terrible things I did he needs to pay me back for. First the tough bully and then the poor victim because who needs to make sense?
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Nora on August 16, 2011, 11:15:08 AM
Oh for the love of little green apples! He's young and in love! Of course he's going to describe the socially desirable traits of his girl! I've studied sociology, and am currently in uni to become a psychologist. Nothing he has said about his girlfriend sounds at all out of the ordinary to me. Nothing.

He has also mentioned that she is very intelligent, that he shares her values, and that he looks forward to spending his life with such a mentally healthy woman. What, he should only say "My clever girlfriend"? "My moral fiance"? "My ideal mate"?

I think that hanging on the looks comments tells a lot more about the people who find this unusual (in what society, really?), than about the lovefool making the comments.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Lisbeth on August 16, 2011, 11:48:44 AM
Ah, I think this thread is being hijacked with the complaints over the "hot" girlfriend descriptions.  That seems to me more appropriate for a PM.

Getting back on topic:  I agree that it wasn't necessary to give P a ride and I wouldn't have either.  But I do agree with the PP who said that if you want to have a "clean slate" with someone,  then don't keep it to yourself-make sure the other person knows that there have been problems that you're now willing to overlook.

See post 11. 

Edited to clarify that the reason for looking at Post 11 is Tallone's report of the results of having extended the "thorny olive branch". 

Lady L suggested:
I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."

Tallone replied:
This was actually what I tried, at first. He seemed to agree but I'm told that later he bragged about me being afraid of him and trying to get him to leave me alone before lamenting on all the terrible things I did he needs to pay me back for. First the tough bully and then the poor victim because who needs to make sense?


My point is that this isn't relevant to the thread topic, which is, Should tallone give a ride to someone he doesn't like?  It has nothing to do with what his girlfriend looks like, but there have been so many posts about it that I think the discussion of "What tallone's girlfriend looks like" is encroaching on this thread.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 16, 2011, 11:55:14 AM
(snip)

Getting back on topic:  I agree that it wasn't necessary to give P a ride and I wouldn't have either.  But I do agree with the PP who said that if you want to have a "clean slate" with someone,  then don't keep it to yourself-make sure the other person knows that there have been problems that you're now willing to overlook.

See post 11. 

Edited to clarify that the reason for looking at Post 11 is Tallone's report of the results of having extended the "thorny olive branch". 

Lady L suggested:
I think it's also worth extending what my friend Peter ingeniously calls the "thorny olive branch." It's basically a truce where you don't have to agree to like each other but you do agree to play nice. You could say something like "Look, I know there's a lot of history and bad blood between us, but for the sake of our mutual friends I would like to try to be civil. We don't have to be friends but let's not make a production out of our differences either - so no public badmouthing or insults. I'll agree to it if you will."

Tallone replied:
This was actually what I tried, at first. He seemed to agree but I'm told that later he bragged about me being afraid of him and trying to get him to leave me alone before lamenting on all the terrible things I did he needs to pay me back for. First the tough bully and then the poor victim because who needs to make sense?


(snip)

The bolded from your original post is what my modified post addresses.  See the blue bolded portion.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 16, 2011, 02:51:54 PM
Honestly, it was probably just feeding the drama.

You and he both have behaved badly in the past. You make a particular note that you were especially pointed and cruel in your insults towards him. Not saying that this excuses him, but I bet he has a lot of memories of that time that make him very angry and that's not all his fault. So, while you attempt to paint him as a bad guy in this, I can only see what made him get to this point, and a lot of that has to do with your own behavior. Yes, he should be acting more maturely. I'm not sure how he was insulting you when you were telling the story - was he insulting you or mentioning past behavior you'd rather forget? My point is, I guess, YOU helped establish this as your relationship patern with him - insults and all. Now YOU want to call the shots and say "enough." Well, he's not ready to let go of his anger yet. 

Either be civil to him or cut him out of your life. Don't continue this tit-for-tat behavior. That's not going to help anything.

He may hate you, but it is definitely not without reason IMO. YMMV.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fluffy Cat on August 16, 2011, 02:56:20 PM
Honestly, it was probably just feeding the drama.

You and he both have behaved badly in the past. You make a particular note that you were especially pointed and cruel in your insults towards him. Not saying that this excuses him, but I bet he has a lot of memories of that time that make him very angry and that's not all his fault. So, while you attempt to paint him as a bad guy in this, I can only see what made him get to this point, and a lot of that has to do with your own behavior. Yes, he should be acting more maturely. I'm not sure how he was insulting you when you were telling the story - was he insulting you or mentioning past behavior you'd rather forget? My point is, I guess, YOU helped establish this as your relationship patern with him - insults and all. Now YOU want to call the shots and say "enough." Well, he's not ready to let go of his anger yet. 

Either be civil to him or cut him out of your life. Don't continue this tit-for-tat behavior. That's not going to help anything.

He may hate you, but it is definitely not without reason IMO. YMMV.

I completely agree.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 16, 2011, 02:57:41 PM
Honestly, it was probably just feeding the drama.

You and he both have behaved badly in the past. You make a particular note that you were especially pointed and cruel in your insults towards him. Not saying that this excuses him, but I bet he has a lot of memories of that time that make him very angry and that's not all his fault. So, while you attempt to paint him as a bad guy in this, I can only see what made him get to this point, and a lot of that has to do with your own behavior. Yes, he should be acting more maturely. I'm not sure how he was insulting you when you were telling the story - was he insulting you or mentioning past behavior you'd rather forget? My point is, I guess, YOU helped establish this as your relationship patern with him - insults and all. Now YOU want to call the shots and say "enough." Well, he's not ready to let go of his anger yet. 

Either be civil to him or cut him out of your life. Don't continue this tit-for-tat behavior. That's not going to help anything.

He may hate you, but it is definitely not without reason IMO. YMMV.

Maybe not, but the bully "seemed to agree".  He doesn't get to "seem to agree" then insult Tallone behind Tallone's back, then expect Tallone's girlfriend to give him a ride for the express purpose of letting bully drink.  (Particularly given that it was in front of girlfriend that bully insulted Tallone, after theoretically accepting a pax.)

Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: TurtleDove on August 16, 2011, 02:58:26 PM
I agree with PeasNCues and FluffyCat.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Hushabye on August 16, 2011, 03:02:54 PM
Honestly, it was probably just feeding the drama.

You and he both have behaved badly in the past. You make a particular note that you were especially pointed and cruel in your insults towards him. Not saying that this excuses him, but I bet he has a lot of memories of that time that make him very angry and that's not all his fault. So, while you attempt to paint him as a bad guy in this, I can only see what made him get to this point, and a lot of that has to do with your own behavior. Yes, he should be acting more maturely. I'm not sure how he was insulting you when you were telling the story - was he insulting you or mentioning past behavior you'd rather forget? My point is, I guess, YOU helped establish this as your relationship patern with him - insults and all. Now YOU want to call the shots and say "enough." Well, he's not ready to let go of his anger yet. 

Either be civil to him or cut him out of your life. Don't continue this tit-for-tat behavior. That's not going to help anything.

He may hate you, but it is definitely not without reason IMO. YMMV.

Maybe not, but the bully "seemed to agree".  He doesn't get to "seem to agree" then insult Tallone behind Tallone's back, then expect Tallone's girlfriend to give him a ride for the express purpose of letting bully drink.  (Particularly given that it was in front of girlfriend that bully insulted Tallone, after theoretically accepting a pax.)

I think that "seemed to agree" is a pretty vague statement.  He may not have actually agreed at all.  Now, interrupting the conversation at his end of the table to insult TallOne is lame and immature, not to mention rude to his conversation partners, but he's also been treated pretty horribly by TallOne in the past.

Now, TallOne had the opportunity to be up front and say, "She heard what you were saying; she's offended; she's not giving you a ride."  Instead, he just dropped himself right back into the nastiness.  Why do that?  Either fish or cut bait with the guy -- cut him or deal with his behavior in a mature manner.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 16, 2011, 03:03:03 PM
Maybe not, but the bully "seemed to agree".  He doesn't get to "seem to agree" then insult Tallone behind Tallone's back, then expect Tallone's girlfriend to give him a ride for the express purpose of letting bully drink.  (Particularly given that it was in front of girlfriend that bully insulted Tallone, after theoretically accepting a pax.)

I guess that all depends on what "seems to agree" means and what the insults were. I had read the "olive branch" follow up to mean that tallone had offered that before. If the "bully" had felt pressured to accept and then decided he wasn't ready, I understand that. I don't excuse it, but I understand it. As I said, "bully" behaved badly, but tallone is the one that established this with him.

And he's "the bully"? How about tallone bullied him as well - and, by tallone's own words, tallone was much better at it. So, if he's the bully, he's also the victim. Tallone is not the shining knight here, he's part of the problem and not handling this maturally.

ETA: If tallone wants to maintain this relationship and heal it, he needs to focus on making amends for his past behavior, not dolling out judgement and punishment for behavior that he, up until a short time ago, exhibited. I an NOT SAYING that P doesn't need to check his own behavior as well, but tallone can't control that - he can only control his own behavior, actions and intentions.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: vTenebrae on August 16, 2011, 09:20:43 PM
That the OP brags about how good he was at insulting "P" really speaks volumes about his attitude, in general.  He goes on to brag about how his "Hot" girlfriend lavishes him with praise regularly and "P"'s insults are deemed insignificant.

If I can get a feeling of a smug sense of superiority... I'm pretty sure "P" can too.

A better approach would have been to tell "P" exactly what happened and tell him that you wouldn't be comfortable giving him a ride.  It would have put him on notice that his behaviour has been observed and does have consequences and made your actions more understandable.  You say you're trying to be the better person, you had the option to show it. Instead you chose to continue on the "mean boy" behaviour.

Oh and to those calling "P" a bully? "P" was childish and a boor, but he wasn't bullying by a longshot. A bully is nasty to someone's face and deliberately tries to embarrass someone or make them feel bad... which is what the OP did. 
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: sammycat on August 16, 2011, 10:19:04 PM
No one is obliged to do a favour for anyone else, particularly when the person asking the favour was publicly badmouthing the other person just a short while before.

I would not have given P a ride.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: tallone on August 17, 2011, 02:48:05 AM
Weeeelll. This thread has certainly given me a lot to think about. While I am perhaps not inclined to agree with all assessments of my character/behaviour I have in principle agreed with some already, and what I don't disagree with entirely is at least useful as an eye opener.

I would like to defend myself in one instance with regards to my references to my size or Tallfiancee's hotness. (Please note: she's not tall at all. That part is just to link her to my own screen name and make fun of her tiny stature. Also, her idea). To me Tallfiancee is very attractive. Other people agree or disagree to varying degrees.

It is mostly tongue in cheek when I say thing like "devastatingly attractive", I'm not in a relationship with a supermodel just trying to be funny. However, if I incorporate her wit, charm and intelligence into the equation I would absolutely classify her as "devastatingly attractive". I am very happy with the woman I'm with. Not just her looks, her as a person. She also reads this forum and I enjoy leaving her a compliment or two while she's getting her eHell fix.

In regards to me? Smug and superior? Well, yes. I would hope that recognising those traits is a sign of maturity - I would also hope that doesn't make me sound even more smug. I have good luck in life. I respect that and enjoy it. In the grand scheme of things I have little to complain about and see little reason to do so. Nearly everything I've thought a problem or didn't like about my life as a child has been changed/fixed for the better since I became an adult - I revel in that fact.

One of the big things was going from short and skinny to tall and fit - I was less than ecstatic with my body and now I am proud of it. Should anyone who undertakes drastic weight loss from obesity to a healthier body be quiet about it because they appear smug and superior? I do not think so and I would argue my own situation is the flip side of the coin. I also enjoy being tall over being short although that is not related to health issues such as weight and obviously not another side of the weight loss/weight gain coin. I am happy to dial it down anyway in this case - just to be sure.

 I accept that bragging is uncouth and so while I see little reason to act humble I do take steps not to overstate my good fortune. It would appear that has failed to a degree and slipped out as an air of superiority and smugness. I'll do my best to address that in future as I agree it makes for poor company if I appear to think I am better than most because I am happy.

Assessments of my character flaws aside -Which I do not believe are the domain of this forum? However,  poor etiqutte/manners being a character flaw  :-\ yes and no perhaps?

Oh and to those calling "P" a bully? "P" was childish and a boor, but he wasn't bullying by a longshot. A bully is nasty to someone's face and deliberately tries to embarrass someone or make them feel bad... which is what the OP did.

This in particular jumped out at me. I do not believe that insulting and belittling someone behind their back is not bullying. I do not agree that I was deliberately nasty to P in the above post. I refused a favour, more accurately I refused a favour in Tallfiancee's behalf as I knew her feelings on the matter would be far more vehement. P spent a significant amount of time putting me down within earshort of myself and those close to me. I would argue that constitutes "nasty to someone's face and deliberately tries to embarrass someone or make them feel bad" better than when I refused to give P a lift.

And yes, perhaps I opened a can of worms on myself by admitting that I was horrible to P in the past. I was. While generally I would welcome debate on the subject the more relevant issue, and central thrust of my post, is whether it is rude to expect a favour from someone you have just been publicly insulting and/or is it rude to reject a favour to someone because you don't like them or their behaviour, guilty conscience or no?

I included details of my poor history with P in order to get that guilty conscience aspect. I would be interested to know if etiquette changes depending on the emotional history between two people. I assume, however, that since "no" is a complete sentence that we can always refuse a favour for no reason other than we don't want to give that favour to the person in question.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 07:03:48 AM
My opinion stands. You are approaching this completely the wrong way - with a sense of superiority and judgement instead of contrition and honesty about your past behavior.

And no, I do not think this guy is bullying you.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: blueberry.muffin on August 17, 2011, 07:56:47 AM
*snippity snip*

Reduced quote to note that I am responding to what you said above without trying to add huge long lines of text for others to scroll through.

With regards to the entire situation, I don't know what you're asking for. If you want validation that you don't have to give P a ride, but that you weren't rude to him, then I think most posters on this thread have agreed that you went about things the right way.

If you want validation of your own personality... that's not something this forum is equipped for. That's something you yourself, and perhaps your fiancée, should analyze, not us. We don't know you, only your words, and while our words give hints as to who we are, it's nowhere near enough that we here on an etiquette forum can help with. (I'd be unrecognizable - I'm a lot more forward here than in real life. Yay, anonymity.)


Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: vTenebrae on August 17, 2011, 08:07:26 AM
Quote
Should anyone who undertakes drastic weight loss from obesity to a healthier body be quiet about it because they appear smug and superior? I do not think so and I would argue my own situation is the flip side of the coin.

So if you improve yourself, it's a great idea to become a smug & superior about it? 

When I was in the Navy I got myself in fantastic shape.  I was thrilled about it.  I dressed the part.  I felt wonderful and I looked great.  I didn't brag about it and I certainly didn't become arrogant about the fact.  I exuded confidence...

Confidence is a far cry from conceit.  Guess which face you're displaying..

Do you continue to justify your behaviour in hopes that someone here will pat you on the back for being so much more awesome than P and thus, not beholden to typical displays of common courtesy or decency?

No, you didn't have to give him a ride.  However "I'm better than him" attitude sucks.  Your entire post could have been summed up as "Someone with whom I have an acrimonious relationship was bad mouthing me within earshot of my fiancee.  Not long after, he realised he needed a ride and only I could provide it.  I made him reap what he sowed and refused to give that boor a ride.  Rudeness does have consequences".  However, you decided to make sure all of us knew that you're far better than he for SOO many reasons.

It grates.  I'm merely saying this so that, perhaps, you can make some adjustments and you will actually BE the better person in the future.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 17, 2011, 08:20:53 AM
 I am a little bit baffled that a thread from three weeks ago has been revived almost solely for the purpose of criticizing the OP. It gives the impression that posters are digging through the archives to find something to be upset about.

It is one thing to say "Your attitude towards P may be more obvious in person than you may think, based on the tone of your thread." It's another to call the OP smug, superior, conceited, arrogant, etc.

 Personally I read his writing style as a little bombastic  - it reminds me of newspaper columns where the authors base scenarios on their life but exaggerate for comical or literary effect. I had actually posted on the Announcements board about whether it is appropriate to criticize a poster's style and the response seemed to range from "Yes, if you do so tactfully" to "No, it's up to the mods." It's located here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=99312.0 (http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=99312.0).

I think there are more tactful ways to point out problematic elements of Tallone's posting style and approach to the situation at hand.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 08:37:23 AM
LadyL - your initial paragraph is an interesting accusation, but no.  :)

I think it is a matter of pointing out how he is coming off in the OP and why. You found it harsh, which it can be, but I found his assessment of P and his behavior harsh and felt the need to point it out since he seemed to be looking for validation of his behavior.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Hushabye on August 17, 2011, 08:39:01 AM
LadyL, this thread has been posted in fairly continuously for this folder for those past three weeks.  In fact, the most recent post before yesterday's was from August 10th, six days prior.  I hardly think that that digging through the archives.  It would have been the second post on the list in this folder, since the third one down was last posted in on August 8th.

And I think there's a difference between criticizing a poster's writing style and pointing out how a poster's attitude comes across in writing.  It would be one thing to say, "Your descriptive phrases are too flowery and your use of ellipses is excessive" and another thing entirely to say, "You come across as excessively smug and arrogant in the way you describe yourself and the situation."
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 17, 2011, 08:39:57 AM
LadyL - your initial paragraph is an interesting accusation, but no.  :)


I realize that came off a bit harsh - what I mean is, I'm surprised that no one noticed or objected to Tallone's posting style when it was initially posted, only weeks after the fact.

Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Hushabye on August 17, 2011, 08:44:31 AM
LadyL - your initial paragraph is an interesting accusation, but no.  :)


I realize that came off a bit harsh - what I mean is, I'm surprised that no one noticed or objected to Tallone's posting style when it was initially posted, only weeks after the fact.

It's possible that posters didn't see this one when it was initially started, given that it's in one of the lesser-visited folders.  Or that they weren't online between now and then.  That's the way a lot of these upper folders work -- fewer people visit and post in them most of the time, but then occasionally threads here will really take off.  The thread just below this one on wedding rings is a good example of a thread that gets brought back up periodically as posters notice it and add to it, even though it's months old now.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 08:52:12 AM
LadyL - your initial paragraph is an interesting accusation, but no.  :)


I realize that came off a bit harsh - what I mean is, I'm surprised that no one noticed or objected to Tallone's posting style when it was initially posted, only weeks after the fact.
Personally, it was in my updated threads page and I made my initial comments based on the OP and the OP's follow ups. I don't know why you think "no one noticed or objected to" his posting style just because it wasn't referenced on the first page.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 17, 2011, 09:21:08 AM
LadyL - your initial paragraph is an interesting accusation, but no.  :)


I realize that came off a bit harsh - what I mean is, I'm surprised that no one noticed or objected to Tallone's posting style when it was initially posted, only weeks after the fact.
Personally, it was in my updated threads page and I made my initial comments based on the OP and the OP's follow ups. I don't know why you think "no one noticed or objected to" his posting style just because it wasn't referenced on the first page.

I didn't realize this wasn't in "Life in general" or another more popular folder because I initially found the thread in 'recent unread threads' and then followed it after I replied. It makes more sense why it's suddenly getting attention now.

As for the bolded, the posts closest in time to the initial post did not include any objections. There seems to have been several "waves" of commenting with the last two being focused on negative critiques of the OP. I thought it was odd that a (from my POV) facetious comment about tallgirlfriend raised such ire, and that when that died out a new batch of criticism sprung up almost immediately. That discussion just seemed disjointed from the earlier one that was focused on the OPs original question.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 09:23:57 AM
I think one person mentioned it and it started a conversation. I'm not sure why that is odd at all.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Peggy Gus on August 17, 2011, 09:28:25 AM
I think one person mentioned it and it started a conversation. I'm not sure why that is odd at all.

I always thought that was the normal progression of a conversation myself, so I don't find it odd either.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 17, 2011, 09:30:58 AM
I think one person mentioned it and it started a conversation. I'm not sure why that is odd at all.

I was surprised by how one comment with a strong opinion begat so many similar ones that just seemed to get harsher and harsher. One poster even told the OP that "his attitude sucks" which seemed out of character for the board. I'm just surprised that's the direction the thread has gone.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 09:41:41 AM
I think one person mentioned it and it started a conversation. I'm not sure why that is odd at all.

I was surprised by how one comment with a strong opinion begat so many similar ones that just seemed to get harsher and harsher. One poster even told the OP that "his attitude sucks" which seemed out of character for the board. I'm just surprised that's the direction the thread has gone.

I'm probably not seeing the progression you do. I see one or two posters mentioning his posting style re: his gorgeous GF and a couple other posters mentioning his attitude towards the situation ("smugness") and getting frustrated with his response, but it doesn't seem to be devolving or having a huge amount of people or anything. 

I'm not sure that it is out of character for the board.

Interesting to get a different perspective though!
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: jemma on August 17, 2011, 09:42:06 AM
In the future, I'd avoid your acquaintance when possible.  If he seeks out your company, I'd say something like "you know we're like oil and water.  I think it would be better if I just..."  That avoids anyone being blamed for anything, and removes you from the situation.  Plus, its direct enough to avoid follow-ups.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: vTenebrae on August 17, 2011, 09:47:55 AM
Pardon me for appearing to be harsh, but the point of the original post was for tallone to show off how he had put a boor in his place.  He posted it in a forum that is meant to show how boorish behaviour is shut down and swiftly.  I believe he expected accolades or at least a "well done", for his actions.

I found his pride in that action to be quite a bit misplaced and stated why I felt that way.  I thought an etiquette forum wasn't just to give each other pats on the back or talk about how wrong the rest of the world is, but was also a place to learn about our own shortcomings.  I know I've learned a lot from this forum.

I follow the board and, without the intention to mommyjack, I do have a new baby at home and don't get a chance to post as often as I used to.  So pardon me for not appearing to be as timely as you would like.  The thread was at the top of the page so I thought it was still a live subject.  I wasn't aware that we weren't allowed to post to topics that are more than a week or two old.  The moderators hadn't set rules about that previously, so if you are now I would like to know..
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: LadyL on August 17, 2011, 09:55:17 AM
Pardon me for appearing to be harsh, but the point of the original post was for tallone to show off how he had put a boor in his place.

I didn't read it that way. Excluding the back story and Tallone's inner monologue, his actual denial of the request for a ride was completely polite:

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you?
Me: I'll see you over there.

And I left.


It is often said here that judgements and inner thoughts only matter insomuch as they translate to actions. I don't think acknowledging past bad behavior negates good, new behavior. Tallone's actions were polite, whereas P calls him several names - I would say that given all the history Tallone handled the situation quite well.

ETA: His behavior the year prior to this incident also sounds spotless:

...he won't stop trying to insult me and provoke an argument/fight. I have bean dipped, left conversations and ignored him until I was blue in the face...but I also haven't retaliated in about twelve months. We've seen each other maybe twenty times in that period.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: wolfie on August 17, 2011, 10:01:58 AM
I was surprised by how one comment with a strong opinion begat so many similar ones that just seemed to get harsher and harsher. One poster even told the OP that "his attitude sucks" which seemed out of character for the board. I'm just surprised that's the direction the thread has gone.

I think that is normal in lots of things. People think something but think they are the only ones who have that thought and don't want to post/say it for various reasons and then once one person says something similar they feel like they can say their piece too. You can see it in some of the faker threads too where people mention they thought x and y were fakers but thought they were the only ones so didn't say anything - but once it all came out you see that it was more then a few people who had that same thought.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Amalthea on August 17, 2011, 10:05:03 AM
In the future, I'd avoid your acquaintance when possible.  If he seeks out your company, I'd say something like "you know we're like oil and water.  I think it would be better if I just..."  That avoids anyone being blamed for anything, and removes you from the situation.  Plus, its direct enough to avoid follow-ups.

I'd use the line "our personalities clash" when trying to avoid my friend's (thankfully now ex) boyfriend that I couldn't stand.  It worked pretty well without me having to straight up say I disliked him.

As for the other discussion, I think some of y'all are being awfully harsh.  He's young, and he's in that transitional stage into maturity.  He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right.  I know I can't be the only one who wants to hide under the bed thinking of how I was as a teen.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 10:08:42 AM
I believe tallone is in his early 20s
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: TurtleDove on August 17, 2011, 10:17:49 AM
He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right. 

Yes, and I think posters are trying to provide advice on how he comes across and how to do better.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: vTenebrae on August 17, 2011, 10:19:48 AM
Quote
He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right.  I know I can't be the only one who wants to hide under the bed thinking of how I was as a teen.

He didn't come for advice.  He posted to show off how he'd shot down someone and put them in their place.  While "P" was a boor.. the OP had a few opportunities to be the bigger person and/or show that he really has come a long way.

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it  At this point, the OP could have said "Because my fiancee overheard you insulting me throughout the meal.  I think I'm justified in turning you down, based on that alone"
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you? "You insulted me nonstop throughout the meal"
Me: I'll see you over there.


This interaction could have gone better and the OP could have actually let "P" know that his actions had consequences.  Instead it seems like more of the bickering nonsense they had in HS, with the OP 'coming out on top' - and based on the substance of the OP and subsequent responses, it seems like that was the intention to which I took umbrage.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Amalthea on August 17, 2011, 10:21:31 AM
I believe tallone is in his early 20s

I thought he was 19 or 20.  Still, he notes in his post that he was kind of a jerk in high school, he's ashamed of that behavior now, and he's trying to fix it.  There isn't some "instant mature person" switch you can flip as soon as you graduate high school.

He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right. 

Yes, and I think posters are trying to provide advice on how he comes across and how to do better.

They are, but I still think they're being really harsh about it.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Fleur-de-Lis on August 17, 2011, 10:23:14 AM
I believe tallone is in his early 20s

I thought he was 19 or 20.  Still, he notes in his post that he was kind of a jerk in high school, he's ashamed of that behavior now, and he's trying to fix it.  There isn't some "instant mature person" switch you can flip as soon as you graduate high school.

He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right. 

Yes, and I think posters are trying to provide advice on how he comes across and how to do better.

They are, but I still think they're being really harsh about it.

I completely agree.  Some in particular, more so than others.   
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Amalthea on August 17, 2011, 10:27:00 AM
Quote
He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right.  I know I can't be the only one who wants to hide under the bed thinking of how I was as a teen.

He didn't come for advice.  He posted to show off how he'd shot down someone and put them in their place.  While "P" was a boor.. the OP had a few opportunities to be the bigger person and/or show that he really has come a long way.

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it  At this point, the OP could have said "Because my fiancee overheard you insulting me throughout the meal.  I think I'm justified in turning you down, based on that alone"
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you? "You insulted me nonstop throughout the meal"
Me: I'll see you over there.


This interaction could have gone better and the OP could have actually let "P" know that his actions had consequences.  Instead it seems like more of the bickering nonsense they had in HS, with the OP 'coming out on top' - and based on the substance of the OP and subsequent responses, it seems like that was the intention to which I took umbrage.

Posts like that are helpful advice.  "This is what you did wrong, and here's what you could have done better."  Not "You're a jerk, you're arrogant, and I don't like how you describe your girlfriend," which is the attitude I was getting from some other posts.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: Peggy Gus on August 17, 2011, 10:43:07 AM
Quote
He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right.  I know I can't be the only one who wants to hide under the bed thinking of how I was as a teen.

He didn't come for advice.  He posted to show off how he'd shot down someone and put them in their place.  While "P" was a boor.. the OP had a few opportunities to be the bigger person and/or show that he really has come a long way.

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it  At this point, the OP could have said "Because my fiancee overheard you insulting me throughout the meal.  I think I'm justified in turning you down, based on that alone"
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you? "You insulted me nonstop throughout the meal"
Me: I'll see you over there.


This interaction could have gone better and the OP could have actually let "P" know that his actions had consequences.  Instead it seems like more of the bickering nonsense they had in HS, with the OP 'coming out on top' - and based on the substance of the OP and subsequent responses, it seems like that was the intention to which I took umbrage.

Posts like that are helpful advice.  "This is what you did wrong, and here's what you could have done better."  Not "You're a jerk, you're arrogant, and I don't like how you describe your girlfriend," which is the attitude I was getting from some other posts.

I just re-read all of the posts, no where was he called a jerk. People said that they noticed that he referenced his hot girlfriend quite often.  It is unnecessary and adds zero to the discussion, the same would be said if someone constantly referred to their SO as short and ugly. His attitude does come across arrogant, I don't see how that is harsh, it is no different than if you said someone was snarky or defensive.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 10:48:14 AM
I believe tallone is in his early 20s

I thought he was 19 or 20.  Still, he notes in his post that he was kind of a jerk in high school, he's ashamed of that behavior now, and he's trying to fix it.  There isn't some "instant mature person" switch you can flip as soon as you graduate high school.

Right, he's ben two or three years out of high school now. My intention was to show him where he was acting immaturely in this particular instance and how he was coming off in his posts. I think 19 or 20 is old enough to be able that information.

Also POD to Matilda.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: dawbs on August 17, 2011, 11:02:14 AM

Quote
He's not all the way there yet, and but he's working on it and coming here for advice on how to do it right.  I know I can't be the only one who wants to hide under the bed thinking of how I was as a teen.

He didn't come for advice.  He posted to show off how he'd shot down someone and put them in their place.  While "P" was a boor.. the OP had a few opportunities to be the bigger person and/or show that he really has come a long way.

P: Hey, can you give me a ride to A's?
Me: Didn't you drive here?
P: Yeah but I decided I want to drink now. You have a spare seat right? Just give me a lift.
Me: Why would I want to do that?
P: Why not? Don't be a d*ck about it  At this point, the OP could have said "Because my fiancee overheard you insulting me throughout the meal.  I think I'm justified in turning you down, based on that alone"
Me: I doubt Tallfiancee will give you a lift. You drove yourself here and you can drive yourself to A's
P: Why are you such a jerk? What did I do to you? "You insulted me nonstop throughout the meal"
Me: I'll see you over there.


This interaction could have gone better and the OP could have actually let "P" know that his actions had consequences.  Instead it seems like more of the bickering nonsense they had in HS, with the OP 'coming out on top' - and based on the substance of the OP and subsequent responses, it seems like that was the intention to which I took umbrage.

Posts like that are helpful advice.  "This is what you did wrong, and here's what you could have done better."  Not "You're a jerk, you're arrogant, and I don't like how you describe your girlfriend," which is the attitude I was getting from some other posts.
I'm w/ Amalthea that this is helpful
I think the 'this is how you could improve' does way more than speculating at one's motive for posting.  Seeing the motive as arrogance is any reader's prerogative but my hackles go up when perception of motive is stated as fact when it's quite clear that other posters see the motive differently.

I just re-read all of the posts, no where was he called a jerk. People said that they noticed that he referenced his hot girlfriend quite often. It is unnecessary and adds zero to the discussion, the same would be said if someone constantly referred to their SO as short and ugly. His attitude does come across arrogant, I don't see how that is harsh, it is no different than if you said someone was snarky or defensive.
I'm not sure that the italics isn't unfairly applied here.
For years, I've referred to my pets w/ silly descriptors here on ehell (El Gato the Splendiferious, Pupus the fuzzybutted-cuteness) without it ever coming up.  I'm sure it probably annoys as many people as find it cute.
I'm not sure why it's coming up for this poster when similar things are said here on a pretty regular basis and no one has batted an eye.
Title: Re: You hate me so...no. (long)
Post by: PeasNCues on August 17, 2011, 11:22:13 AM
To be honest, I think the GF descriptor would have gone without notice if it were not coupled with apparent smuggness.