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  • March 06, 2015, 03:16:01 PM

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1
Family and Children / Re: New Grandparent Feeling Left Out
« Last post by Nemesis on Today at 03:15:50 PM »
Yes. I think the obligation to communicate before deciding to check out of the hotel was on Ivy. Announcing it as a fait accompli was high-handed, unsympathetic and unnecessary.

I get why Ivy would be surprised and disappointed. I understand how Adam and Rifka's shutdown/shutout is technically rude.

But if you have a close and loving relationship with someone who is in a vulnerable state, isn't it incumbent on the higher-functioning person to give the benefit of the doubt, be the more understanding and less-sensitive party, and try to put their feelings in the moment to one side and act in the long-term best interest of the relationship?


This story just keeps bringing me back to the Circle Theory. Kindness is supposed to flow inward to the people who need it most. relationships are a 2-way street over time, but sometimes the love flows one-way for a little while before it comes back around.

Why should Ivy have communicated with Adam before checking out of her hotel? 

So that he would know she was leaving?  So that maybe he would get a clue that she was upset?  So that he could maybe say "why are you leaving mom" and an actual normal, healthy, adult interaction could occur?  Honestly I see why Ivy was upset, I do!  But I just don't have any sympathy for people who pull a martyr card before trying to work it out.  Like I said earlier, if she had called or expressed any sadness before leaving and the  new parents were like "oh well, see ya later" then I'd totally be on Ivy's side.  But they got no chance.  Maybe they all could have worked it out.  Hard to work it out when you are already 60 miles away before you talk.

To what purpose would Ivy have called Adam before checking out of her hotel?  If Ivy was not able to stay with Adam and Rifka and couldn't afford to stay in the hotel, what other options did she have?  *I am assuming that Ivy didn't have the means (or desire) to stay several days in a hotel, perhaps an interesting assumption on my part.*

Adam asking her why she was "upset" still wouldn't have modified the situation unless he and Rifka were then willing for Ivy to stay with them.  There is an old saying, "Least said, soonest mended".  What was there to talk about at this point?  Just because Ivy left after dropping off the gifts doesn't mean she is angry or playing the martyr.  She may have been doing the most practical thing for her (getting out of Dodge before a major snowstorm) and Grandpa took it upon himself to make an angry post about the situation.



I don't think it needs to be before she checked out specifically but I absolutely feel that a conversation would have been wise and valuable here.  We will just have to agree to disagree if you don't think that people in close family relationships should talk to each other or let each other know when they are leaving town way ahead of schedule.  I think that NOT doing so created way more drama later.

I agree with miranova. Sure, it is not rude not to inform them that she is checking out. But if you (general) cannot even have an hinest conversation like this wuth your son, why are you surprised that rhey don't want you to stay with them, especially when they have a newborn baby?
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Life...in general / Re: Was I rude to walk out of this shop?
« Last post by pierrotlunaire0 on Today at 03:13:11 PM »
After the 2nd upsell, I think I would have said, "I'm sorry, but I really have to get back to work immediately, and all I want is this toothpaste."  That way, I have put the cashier on notice that she is seriously inconveniencing me if she does anything but check me out.

Then, if she tries a 3rd time, I can say, "I have to leave.  I'm late."  And I leave.  I understand that staff are often required to do this.  But when I tell you that you have a choice between upselling or selling nothing, I mean it.
3
Life...in general / Re: Self-hosting adult birthday celebrations
« Last post by Surianne on Today at 03:02:42 PM »
Free Range Hippy Chick -- I think many posters in this thread are American and actually saying that they, too, don't see birthdays the same way the Admin on the blog post does.  (I miss those little flags we had in our signatures -- made it so easy to tell where people were from!)

I'm in Canada and I definitely view them the same way you do, and most of my American friends celebrate their birthday that way too: celebrate with me, not celebrate me because I'm amazing.  I've never been to a party with a guest of honour either.  So my experience very much aligns with yours and I agree with everything you've said.

So I think it may be less a US (& Canada) vs. UK divide than a traditional etiquette vs. practical, current etiquette divide.   If the majority of people in your social circle don't see self-thrown birthdays as rude, then, well, etiquette has evolved so they're not rude.  An expert in etiquette throwing insults at a bunch of people who all enjoy this practice isn't going to change anything or make us see the error of our ways.  Just because someone calls me a rude egotistical cretin doesn't make me a rude egotistical cretin :-)



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Life...in general / Re: Was I rude to walk out of this shop?
« Last post by Another Sarah on Today at 03:02:22 PM »
According to the OP, the other checker wasn't doing the push.  So, it probably wasn't mandated by the chain.

More likely, the other checker will end up being written up eventually for resisting. I imagine she tried it, realized how annoying it was, stopped without being authorized to do so, and hasn't gotten caught yet.

POD

I was a cashier in a (American) chain store that required upselling and every 2 weeks you had to sign off on a written evaluation of whether or not you were meeting your quota - and if you met your quota they raised it.  If you consistently didn't met your quota, they demoted or fired you. The cashier who wasn't upselling may have been new (and thus didn't know consequences of not upselling 'cause they don't tell you the consequences when you're hired) or had just given her notice.

Having been a cashier in a store that requires upselling, I now just say to cashiers in such stores "Hi. Just these and I am not purchasing anything else or applying for your credit card. But thanks for asking."

Also, if you do like a cashier, especially one that doesn't upsell you, do the store survey on the receipt. They track the receipt number back to the cashier so that's a good way to help out nice cashiers.
That doesn't tend to happen over here- they tend to incentivise sales targets rather than penalise for lack of them, unless you're in a really sales focussed job like a car salesman. Cashiers don't fall into that category for us generally.
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^^^ May be she'd get it if you asked her to factor in her share of the cost of a car?
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Family and Children / Re: New Grandparent Feeling Left Out
« Last post by miranova on Today at 03:00:57 PM »
Yes. I think the obligation to communicate before deciding to check out of the hotel was on Ivy. Announcing it as a fait accompli was high-handed, unsympathetic and unnecessary.

I get why Ivy would be surprised and disappointed. I understand how Adam and Rifka's shutdown/shutout is technically rude.

But if you have a close and loving relationship with someone who is in a vulnerable state, isn't it incumbent on the higher-functioning person to give the benefit of the doubt, be the more understanding and less-sensitive party, and try to put their feelings in the moment to one side and act in the long-term best interest of the relationship?


This story just keeps bringing me back to the Circle Theory. Kindness is supposed to flow inward to the people who need it most. relationships are a 2-way street over time, but sometimes the love flows one-way for a little while before it comes back around.

Why should Ivy have communicated with Adam before checking out of her hotel? 

So that he would know she was leaving?  So that maybe he would get a clue that she was upset?  So that he could maybe say "why are you leaving mom" and an actual normal, healthy, adult interaction could occur?  Honestly I see why Ivy was upset, I do!  But I just don't have any sympathy for people who pull a martyr card before trying to work it out.  Like I said earlier, if she had called or expressed any sadness before leaving and the  new parents were like "oh well, see ya later" then I'd totally be on Ivy's side.  But they got no chance.  Maybe they all could have worked it out.  Hard to work it out when you are already 60 miles away before you talk.

To what purpose would Ivy have called Adam before checking out of her hotel?  If Ivy was not able to stay with Adam and Rifka and couldn't afford to stay in the hotel, what other options did she have?  *I am assuming that Ivy didn't have the means (or desire) to stay several days in a hotel, perhaps an interesting assumption on my part.*

Adam asking her why she was "upset" still wouldn't have modified the situation unless he and Rifka were then willing for Ivy to stay with them.  There is an old saying, "Least said, soonest mended".  What was there to talk about at this point?  Just because Ivy left after dropping off the gifts doesn't mean she is angry or playing the martyr.  She may have been doing the most practical thing for her (getting out of Dodge before a major snowstorm) and Grandpa took it upon himself to make an angry post about the situation.



I don't think it needs to be before she checked out specifically but I absolutely feel that a conversation would have been wise and valuable here.  We will just have to agree to disagree if you don't think that people in close family relationships should talk to each other or let each other know when they are leaving town way ahead of schedule.  I think that NOT doing so created way more drama later.
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Time For a Coffee Break! / Re: Favorite winter "comfort" foods
« Last post by Mergatroyd on Today at 02:56:52 PM »
Stew with biscuits
Steak sandwiches
Daal with rice
Halibut chowder
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Family and Children / Re: New Grandparent Feeling Left Out
« Last post by miranova on Today at 02:56:23 PM »
In a normal relationship, you ask after the person who has just been discharged from the hospital.  There is not one indication in the email that anyone even bothered to express the slightest bit of concern over how the new mom was recovering.  Sure, it could have been a normal birth with not a lot of residual pain, but did they even bother to inquire?

And as an adult you accept that there could be painful, embarrassing details following a birth that a new mother might not care to share with anyone other than her husband/wife/BFF. Very few new moms care to discuss things like heavy bleeding, stitches in delicate areas, cracked nipples or broken tailbones (and none of these are uncommon issues following birth!)

Who said anything about giving TMI details?  One can say "not great" or "I'm having more complications than we expected" without going into gory detail.   I stand behind my opinion that to not even ask how the mother is recuperating is uncaring coming from family.
9
Life...in general / Re: Was I rude to walk out of this shop?
« Last post by bah12 on Today at 02:55:01 PM »
So here's my take.  I definitely understand why you walked away and I don't at all blame you for feeling like you do.  I'd be the same way and I probably would have ended up walking out myself...but probably before I got up to the cashier.

The thing is that it was clear this woman was doing a sales pitch to every customer in line and because of that, she was slowing down the queu.  I would not have wanted to deal with her at all, so had it been me and it was clear that I was going to get her, I would have just let whoever was behind me in line go ahead of me and waited for the other cashier.  If someone asked why I'd simply say "because I only want to buy this toothpaste and leave."  I wouldn't have felt bad for that.   

But, once I agreed to let this cashier serve me, I think saying something before walking off is warranted.  Like "I'm sorry...I'm not interested in buying anything but this toothpaste.  And I'm in a rush, so can you please just ring me up and if I decide I need anything else, I'll come back."  And I would have said this after/during the first sales pitch.  Not let her get into the third.  Only after she didn't respect that request would I choose to leave. 

I think your actions were unecessary and I'm not sure that it did anything but perplex those around you.  I get this cashier was annoying, but I do think you should have just told her up front you weren't interested in hearing any sales pitches.  To walk off without saying anything, I do think is a bit rude...even if it is understandable.  Also, I don't think your response when she called out to you was necessary either.  Sure, I suppose you made your point to her, but you involved everyone else.  What you said then, should have been said before.   I know you weren't trying to make a statement, but you did.  I'm just not sure that the outcome was positive or what you would have intended.

All that being said, it's hindsight and in the grand scheme of things, I'd chalk it up to a life lesson and something you can handle differently if ever faced with it again.
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I think there is a difference between, "I'm throwing myself a party; pay for yourself and my meal/drinks, and bring an expensive present" and "I'm hosting a party. Just come and have a fun time." When I was visiting a friend in N. Ireland several years ago, she told me we were going to a pub (love real pubs!) for a birthday party a friend was throwing for herself. My first thought was that I hadn't personally been invited and I didn't have a gift. No worries. Gifts were not expected; it didn't have to be said. It was common, at least in that group.
I went and had a great time. Honestly, I am perfectly fine with that; it made sense. There are times I wish we did things the way they do in the UK.

I do get the impression from a lot of posts here that there is a huge difference between the US and the UK on what we consider to be gift giving occasions. The birthday thing largely does come down to what Jaxsue says: we in the UK view a birthday party as 'celebrate with me' not 'celebrate for me'. You're not asking anybody to 'honour' you or 'celebrate' you, if 'celebrate' means 'acknowledge that you've done something clever or admirable'. Once you're past the age of about 8, birthday parties at which guests bring gifts are a thing of the past. Your immediate family might, and a few intimate friends but only the people who would be giving you a gift anyway, whether you had a party or not.

We've also moved past the 'guest of honour' thing. Most parties don't have a guest of honour, or perhaps more accurately, if it has a guest of honour, it isn't a party. As a rule of thumb, if there are no formal speeches, there's no GOH (and even if there are speeches, there needn't be a GOH). If the Queen is at your event, then yes, she's a GOH. If Big Business Boss has come to the annual meeting of your professional association and will be making a speech about Big Business Matter, then he's a GOH. Those are not gift giving events. Even if it's your celebration party and you're making a speech, if the speech is only 'thanks for coming, lovely to see you all' then you are not a GOH.

We don't, for example, generally give gifts for school-leaving, university graduation (your parents might give you a wallet or a piece of jewellery but other relatives or family friends won't), etc. I know that many of the US readers here think that the UK habit of having an Evening Reception after a wedding, which has a larger guest list than the wedding itself and the main reception, is a vulgar B List gift grab. We don't; we view it as an entirely separate party at which gifts are not expected. That's not to say that aren't occasionally given, but the Evening Reception is for a wider circle of friends - yes, possibly the B List, but work colleagues with whom you don't socialise out of work, or your parents' neighbours who are their friends, not the friends of the bride and groom. Many of them won't bring gifts or if they do, they'll be small things - pot plants, small kitchen implements etc. - or, in the case of the work colleagues, a joint gift.

Many of us here, in turn, are totally horrified by the concept of a bridal or baby shower. A party where the entire point is the giving of gifts? I actually do see that as a vulgar gift grab. No matter whether it's thrown by the bride herself, or her mother, or her friends, that invitation says to me 'Bring me things!' Even our children's parties aren't that! The point of the party is to see your friends. If anybody brings you a gift, that's lovely, but it's an extra. We don't expect it, not once we're past primary school age.

I don't care to be told (and I've seen it said on this site) that the way we in the UK manage things is by definition rude - whose definition? - any more than I imagine that you in the US (or Australia, or Denmark, or wherever) would like it. A self-hosted birthday party in the UK is not rude. An Evening Wedding Reception in the UK is not rude. I rather think that in the UK a baby shower is rude - but for those of you living elsewhere, it's not. 
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