News: There is a new Ehell Kindness Project!  Check it out in the "Extending the Hand of Kindness" folder or here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=139832.msg3372084#msg3372084   

  • February 09, 2016, 10:04:00 AM

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51
Family and Children / Re: Accepting an apology when you don't want to
« Last post by Danika on Yesterday at 11:15:56 PM »

... If you need a break from them, give it to yourself. If you need to say "That's nice, and I wish I could accept your apology, but you said you were sorry last time, then did it again" then say it.

Etiquette does not require you to accept an apology.

This is where I stand. I'm a firm believer in "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a second time, shame on me."  You were nice and gave this person a second chance. Now, it's a theme with them. I would just say "OK, duly noted" if they apologized again and I wouldn't deal with them again.

If you're at a large family function, you say hi and no further conversation. And anyone who tries to get you to interact beyond that, you excuse yourself from them too.

Life is too short and too full of nice people to force yourself to keep dealing with inconsiderate ones. Even if they are family.
52
10 minutes?  They were in your house for just 10 minutes??? Wow.  That's.....wow.  So obvious that they were coming just to eat.  And MAN, they would've had to eat pretty darn fast to be done in 10 minutes.  The scene from Independence Day popped into my mind, where the President described the aliens as descending like locusts to use up every natural resource they could before taking off and leaving to find another planet to decimate.  I know she didn't decimate your food spread, but still.....

After reading your updates, let your kids be friends with hers.  My kids have friends, but it doesn't mean we always socialize with their parents.  Just because you let your kids be friends doesn't mean that you have to let Jane use you like she does/did. 

Again, pull back from your personal involvement with her. Even if you feel bad about it, remember that for her to pull something like she did, without apology, she obviously doesn't feel the same closeness with you or she wouldn't have put you in such a position and used you like she did. 

I think you did the best you could in the moment, b/c as you said, how could you have known or even entertained the idea of her behaving as badly as she did?  But now you know.  And as they say, forewarned is forearmed.  She's shown you who she is and what she thinks of you.  Believe her.
53
Time For a Coffee Break! / Re: Special Snowflake Stories
« Last post by JadeAngel on Yesterday at 10:09:05 PM »
I encountered a special snowflake at the post office today. Instead of parking in one of the many open parking spots she pulled slightly over to the right in the driving lane of the parking lot, parked her car there and went into the post office.  People could still drive by her car, but it was a bit close. Since SS stopped perpendicular to the actual parking spots she managed to completely block access to one empty parking spot. Extra bonus points since the spot she blocked was one of only 2 handicap spots.

TOWANDA!!!  >:D
54
Family and Children / Re: Accepting an apology when you don't want to
« Last post by HoneyBee42 on Yesterday at 10:05:49 PM »
I think that accepting an apology is something completely separate from restoration of relationship.

I see accepting an apology as more about me--that I am not going to give the person "free rent" space in my mind.  This does not mean that in accepting an apology, one must continue to offer oneself up for continued hurt (thus why I say that restoration of a relationship is a completely separate step).

If the wrongdoer continues to act in a harmful way, it is legitimate to cease contact--choosing to have no direct relationship with that person does not mean that you have not accepted the apology, it simply means that the door to reconciliation is closed at this time (but closed by the wrongdoer--think of those doors in hotel rooms where the rooms could adjoin and both rooms have a door--if I am in one room, I cannot enter the other unless the person in the other room opens the door also).

55
I have occasionally had to go through extra screening (sometimes security, sometimes immigration, sometimes what seemed to be a bit of both) when making an international connection like described. But it's generally without leaving the international terminal at the airport, and without my checked bags (since they are checked all the way through to my destination).

I've also had to literally run to enough international connections that I'm always happier to have gobs of time to kill than a tight connection, because there's nothing like sitting on a trans-Atlantic flight spending the whole time worrying about how long you'll have in the airport when you finally get there. And since a lot of international flights are less frequent than their domestic counterparts, you get stuck for longer if you miss your connection.
56
People who call your phone number, but then don't respond when you answer.  I'm so tired of picking up the phone, saying "*Clinic* Business office, this is LadySnowdon, how can I help you?" only to be faced with a long silence.  Then I say "hello?" about 2-3 times before someone finally comes on the line and says, "Oh, hello, is someone there?".  Grrrrr! 

Also, when a new procedure is written down and seems perfectly clear to everyone who proofs it, but causes foul-ups and nasty attitudes within a week because of people not understanding what is meant.

The caller is waiting for the prompt to leave a message. I get a person about half the time and am taken aback then because I am ready with my voice mail.

I don't know what you can say to let the caller know you are live and to go ahead. I know it seems obvious to you with the "How may I help you?" but it isn't really when I am expecting a recording.

I know your frustration.
57
She brought over her family and 3 of her guests, leaving about 5-6 guests back at the party. When I expressed surprise, she replied she trusts them in her home and I let that drop.

It is not that Jane had no food at her parties, it is just that she had scant food and it seems like the $1 party pizzas get burnt while prepping drinks and then there are only a few. And people bring queso or other dip, but there is one bag of chips for 20 guests. And somebody brings a dessert, but it's one dessert for 20 people. She makes sure there is plenty to drink, as that is more of a priority for her. At my house, we provide an overabundance of food and drink, because that is how we like to host and because we get sucked in when planning and decide, ooh, we should make those in chocolate AND caramel flavor and ooh, we should make extras of the calzones because they'll be easier for the little kids. Before you know it, we have food and drink for 60 instead of 30.

Hmmm described almost precisely what happened. Jane called...and there was a football game going on and kids playing and adults chatting and I said sure, come on over. I never dreamed "we" could include anyone but Jane and her kids. I mean, she could have been bringing a trained circus bear or a biker gang, but I assumed if she meant anything else, she would include the relevant details like every other conversation I have ever had with anyone ever before. My 8yo son wouldn't even try that trick! So I told DH Jane and kids were coming and he made a sympathetic comment about her party having fizzled. Then he opened the door and wasn't sure if I knew Jane was bringing the others or not...but he wasn't going to slam the door in their face and make a scene. They were in the house for 10 minutes, and each minute was more odd than the one before as the story played out. But remember, I still have adult and child guests, playing, conversations and a football game going on. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't boot these people out of my house and cause a scene.

If I could have told the future, and known to ask if she was bringing extra people, if her party was still going on, and if she planned to scarf a plate and retreat, I would have told her that wouldn't work for me. But in almost any case on the planet, those very questions would be incredibly rude, as they presume a level of rudeness that is over the top, right? "OK, but who exactly are you bringing?? And are you deserting other guests at your house? Will you stay and visit a while, or will you still be chewing as you run for the door for the land speed record of party attendance?"
58
Time For a Coffee Break! / Re: S/O Beggars, Moochers and Scammers
« Last post by snowfire on Yesterday at 09:15:56 PM »
I've asked the "Microsoft" scammers to tell me the MAC address of the computer sending out the problem info.  Almost universally they don't understand that & try to tell me that they are not talking about a Mac (Apple) computer.  I've been known to play with them when I'm in the right mood & have the time.  DH is a cyber security geek with certifications & a TON of experience.  I've picked up quite a bit by contamination.  ;D 

Next time I get an out of my area call, or from a "toll free" area code, I think I'll answer with something like "ABC  Company, cyber security department..." and see how fast they hang up.  >:D
59
Family and Children / Re: Accepting an apology when you don't want to
« Last post by Semperviren on Yesterday at 09:05:41 PM »
Well, now you know it's not just a one-time slip, this is their nature, and you can probably expect it to happen again.

I really like EllenS's description of forgiveness:
... an ongoing practice of working through the pain without seeking physical or emotional retaliation. It does not mean instant restoration of the relationship like nothing happened, though restoration is generally a good goal.



For me, forgiveness (once I reach this point with someone) is also accepting that whether I like it or not, this is their nature, this is How They Are, and that I cannot change it (and it is not my responsibility to change it). This does not mean endlessly accepting whatever they dole out. It means protecting myself from them how and when I need to and not feeling bad about it. If you need a break from them, give it to yourself. If you need to say "That's nice, and I wish I could accept your apology, but you said you were sorry last time, then did it again" then say it.

Etiquette does not require you to accept an apology.
60
Family and Children / Re: Ask Amy 2/7/16
« Last post by wolfie on Yesterday at 08:52:19 PM »
To me it doesn't matter what the LW wants. It isn't her relative so I wouldn't expect her to have the level,of closeness to want to go. What matters is how her husband feels.  If he wants to go then I would figure out how to make to happen, if he didn't I would have him sent regrets.
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