News: IT'S THE 2ND ANNUAL GUATEMALA LIBRARY PROJECT BOOK DRIVE!    LOOKING FOR DONATIONS OF SCIENCE BOOKS THIS YEAR.    Check it out in the "Extending the Hand of Kindness" folder or here: http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=139832.msg3372084#msg3372084   

  • July 23, 2017, 04:11:48 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Recent Posts

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10
81
Family and Children / Re: Keep your hands to yourself!
« Last post by scansons on Yesterday at 03:22:14 PM »
I'm so sorry for you that you are having to deal with that level of irrational; I can't get my head around that.

I'm glad to hear that your conversation with your husband sounds like it has produced a positive result; I hope your nice, tight little nuclear family can stay sane amidst all the crazy; it sounds like there's plenty to spare. :(

I'm not sure what a soccer flop is?  Is it the "tripping over a daisy" that causes rolling on the floor in agony?  If so, I can totally understand!

It sounds like an exhausting game of "heads I win; tails you lose", with you always being tails.  {Hugs} because I think they're due.


Thanks for the hugs!   Yeah, tripping on a daisy sounds about right. 

A soccer flop is when a soccer player tries to get a ref to believe they've been badly injured in a game to get the call to go against the other team.   There are a lot of youtube videos out there of grown men rolling around on the ground in pretend agony because someone ran past them without even touching them.   
82
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by Chez Miriam on Yesterday at 03:16:09 PM »
In my rummaging around Reddit archives, I have run into two instances where the wedding was a complete surprise--to the groom.

In the first, the groom showed up at a country club, expecting to play a round of golf, and walked into his own wedding. He left as fast as he could. The poster said that the bride & groom were dating, but the groom had never proposed. The poster did not explain how the bride managed to keep the guests from spilling the beans to the groom.

In the second, the bride was delusional. The groom was a medical student known to her & her family. She managed to convince everyone that the groom was so busy, he couldn't show up for photos or parties. When the groom didn't show up for the wedding, the bride said she feared that his sister, who didn't approve of the match, was preventing him from coming. A delegation of male guests went to the groom's house to rescue him. The groom informed them that not only was he not getting married, he was not engaged. In fact, he & the bride had never even dated.

I'm not fully convinced that the first bride wasn't delusional, too?  Clearly the "groom" saw the writing on the wall...
83
Family and Children / Re: Keep your hands to yourself!
« Last post by Chez Miriam on Yesterday at 03:13:58 PM »
I'm so sorry for you that you are having to deal with that level of irrational; I can't get my head around that.

I'm glad to hear that your conversation with your husband sounds like it has produced a positive result; I hope your nice, tight little nuclear family can stay sane amidst all the crazy; it sounds like there's plenty to spare. :(

I'm not sure what a soccer flop is?  Is it the "tripping over a daisy" that causes rolling on the floor in agony?  If so, I can totally understand!

It sounds like an exhausting game of "heads I win; tails you lose", with you always being tails.  {Hugs} because I think they're due.
84
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by nutraxfornerves on Yesterday at 03:10:39 PM »
In my rummaging around Reddit archives, I have run into two instances where the wedding was a complete surprise--to the groom.

In the first, the groom showed up at a country club, expecting to play a round of golf, and walked into his own wedding. He left as fast as he could. The poster said that the bride & groom were dating, but the groom had never proposed. The poster did not explain how the bride managed to keep the guests from spilling the beans to the groom.

In the second, the bride was delusional. The groom was a medical student known to her & her family. She managed to convince everyone that the groom was so busy, he couldn't show up for photos or parties. When the groom didn't show up for the wedding, the bride said she feared that his sister, who didn't approve of the match, was preventing him from coming. A delegation of male guests went to the groom's house to rescue him. The groom informed them that not only was he not getting married, he was not engaged. In fact, he & the bride had never even dated.

85
Family and Children / Re: Keep your hands to yourself!
« Last post by scansons on Yesterday at 02:58:18 PM »
I haven't seen anyone mention it, so if I repeat advice, sorry.

It's very important that you not let FIL touch you if you don't want him to, especially in front of the children. If you are teaching your children not to let anyone touch them, unless they want to be touched, and don't touch anyone, unless the other person want to be touched. If you allow FIL to touch you, it gives the children a mixed message. If he corners you again, tell him you don't want to be touched, loudly, and push your way past him. If he gets his foot stomped, or his knee kicked, that is his fault for cornering you.

I think these are very wise words. 

I keep seeing advice to children along the lines of:' if someone touching you makes you feel uncomfortable, it's OK to say no...  Tell them firmly "No!".  If they try to touch you again, get loud; shout, run to find help.'

Modelling this behaviour teaches a much more lasting lesson than 'do as I say; don't do as I do'.

Would having that in your mind help with firming up yous boundaries, scansons?


Actually had a long talk with my husband after I posted this.   I think part of the reason that I've been less proactive about this than usual is that...basically, they are really good at the emotional soccer flop.   As crazy as my family is, I've never had to deal with that.  My family is what we like to call aggressive aggressive.   They yell they cuss they carry on like toddlers denied guns and firecrackers.  So when I stand up to my family, it is blazingly clear who the stable one is.   Polite soft spoken but willing to take the necessary action works with them.  Not so with the in-laws.   

They are passive agressive.   It's all "Scansons laid down to take a nap three months ago at the family vacation so we know she hates us."  <-Not. made. up.   I also once sat in a chair too many times.   That nobody else was sitting in.   It's impossible to know what will set them off because they are trying to find fault.   So telling them no about anything is fraught.  Sometimes they will seem to take it well and then cry on the phone later to DH.  Sometimes years later about how cold and angry, I am.  Greyrocking, not effective.   Tried telling them once that I wasn't responsible for their feelings, and that the fact was that the children were just not going to get to do X.  Complete melt.  Tears.  Rationalization.   Emotional blackmail.   But all in this weak pathetic why-are-you-kicking-us-we-just-love-you-so-much sort of way.  It is not pretty.  And it's nerve racking. 

So anyway, I had a long talk with DH.  Asked him what he liked about how I deal with his parents.   He said he likes that I'm polite and assertive and that I should just let them soccer flop.  So he's going to take care of the issue, and if it reoccurs, I am clear to deal with it assertively.   It still makes me nervous, but showing the children how it's done for their own safety, and knowing my DH is behind me helps a lot.   
86
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by TheaterDiva1 on Yesterday at 02:54:45 PM »
The NY Times had an article about the uptick in surprise weddings among non-celebrities.
-Is it inconsiderate to host a surprise wedding ?

I think that's more of a "know your audience" think... personally, I don't see a problem as long as you're sure everyone would come to a regular party and not miss out simply because they didn't know it's a wedding.

Quote
-Are guests obligated to produce a wedding gift or money after being told "surprise, you're at a wedding" ?

Good question... I would get them something after the fact.

Quote
-Two of the brides are receiving post-wedding parties from friends. One of them had felt "shortchanged and cheated" (of gifts & parties). If your friend had a surprise wedding, would you feel obligated to throw her a post-wedding bridal shower & bachelorette party ?

I wouldn't feel "obligated" - after all, the brides did make that choice, so they shouldn't expect anything. If their friends WANT to do something, that's on them.

Quote
-The featured weddings had small appetizers, drinks & mini desserts. Is it rude of guests to stay for less than the length of a "normal" wedding ?

The surprise factor is irrelevant - I wouldn't expect anything to last longer then a couple hours unless a full meal was served.

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/fashion/weddings/surprise-weddings.html
87
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by Chez Miriam on Yesterday at 02:41:30 PM »
The bit that stood out to me was:
Quote
And, as Mr. Chavers witnessed, envelopes contain less money and smaller checks.

“Lauren did feel shortchanged and cheated,” Mr. Chavers said.

I'm suspecting that some of the guests felt "shortchanged and cheated" not to know that it was a wedding they were attending/missed (because they didn't know it was a wedding that was planned instead of a regular party)....

I think if I attended one, my feelings would vary immensely: my sweet, casual friends would not be expressing feelings of being cheated, and I suspect I would have a wonderful time at their [putative] surprise wedding.  Some people: for them the world is not enough... ???  If invited to an engagement party, I might feel that the engagement-level present I brought is all I would want to buy [I'm pretty sure it would take exceptional circumstances to make me feel the need to later "top" that up to wedding level] - but who knows?
88
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by HannahGrace on Yesterday at 02:21:54 PM »
My responses:

1.  it's only inconsiderate to host a surprise wedding if you hold a grudge against those who didn't make it because they thought it was only a regular party.
2.  I would say no gift obligation.
3.  No post wedding parties.  No one is obligated to throw you those parties even for a planned wedding.  If you want to go the traditional route, do that, but if you decide to have a surprise wedding, that's your wedding and you're done.
4.  I don't think the amount or nature of food is relevant.  People weren't planning on being at a wedding and budgeted their time accordingly.  If I'm invited to a wedding, I expect to be tied up at least 5-6 hours.  If I'm going to a party, I figure at least 2 hours, but I might well have planned to be somewhere else after, or I might have life things that need to be done (walking the dog) that I would not have planned ahead for, not knowing I was going to a wedding.
89
Par-Tay! / Re: "Surprise! You're at a wedding!"
« Last post by rose red on Yesterday at 02:20:12 PM »
-Is it inconsiderate to host a surprise wedding ?

I can understand some would be put off, but I wouldn't mind personally. Even as a regular guest, there's a lot of prep and stress which I dislike and a surprise wedding eliminates all that. I don't think this question has a right answer. It's each person's own personal feelings.

-Are guests obligated to produce a wedding gift or money after being told "surprise, you're at a wedding" ?

Gifts should never be expected (except maybe a card), but most will probably send a gift anyway. It's a nice thing to do, especially if you like the couple.

-Two of the brides are receiving post-wedding parties from friends. One of them had felt "shortchanged and cheated" (of gifts & parties). If your friend had a surprise wedding, would you feel obligated to throw her a post-wedding bridal shower & bachelorette party ?

No. It was their choice and they need live with their own choices.

-The featured weddings had small appetizers, drinks & mini desserts. Is it rude of guests to stay for less than the length of a "normal" wedding ?

I think a guest should feel free to stay however long they were going to stay when they thought was just a "regular" party. What if someone only hired a babysitter until 8pm, or someone has to work early the next day? Or someone don't show up at all because "it's just a party?" That's the risk the HC need to be aware of.
90
Family and Children / Re: Kids playing with items in stores.
« Last post by snappylt on Yesterday at 02:01:49 PM »
Yeah, I don't see a parallel to trying clothes on--that's done solely to the purpose of making sure that it fits/looks good on.

The screaming/nagging thing?  Well, obviously, I'm well past that point (my youngest are 16), but I had no tolerance for that behavior from my children when they were little.

True story--one time, my oldest (then only) was a toddler when the grocery store put toys on one side and cereal on the other (so walking down the aisle, toys to the left, cereal to the right).  Oldest son asked for a toy (not screaming or otherwise inappropriate), but it wasn't something that I had in the budget that week, so I told him no.  He asked again in a tone that started to border on whining, and I said "I said no, and if you ask again, we're going home."  Cue the whining "But I want it".  I took the cart to an employee, apologized that I was not going to be able to finish shopping, and took him out of the cart and went home (with him crying "I'll be good" the whole way to the car).  Went back later *without* him (after husband got home from work), did the shopping.  Next time we were at the store, he asked for a toy, I said no.  He asked a second time, I said "Do we need to go home?"  He did not ask again.  He learned that the first answer was the final answer and that I would *not* tolerate screaming, whining, or repeated begging for something.

Granted, I had to repeat the procedure with subsequent children, and it was very inconvenient.  But as a parent, it is my obligation to raise children to be decent members of society, and it's a *lot* easier to start the way you mean to go on (even if the going home follow-through has to be repeated more than once) than it is to try to civilize an older child who has never experienced discipline earlier.

HoneyBee42,

I'm with you. I was a slightly-older full-time father for many years. Your story sounds like the way I handled shopping trips and other outings with my boys. We figured out ahead of time if there was money in the budget for a treat, and, if so, how much money was available. If there was misbehavior in the store, we abandoned our shopping trip and went home empty-handed. (The very few times I did that I apologized and gave my cart to an employee if there was any cold food in the cart.)

I only had to go one time from the grocery store and one time from the public library for each child. I guess my sons were fast learners; they realized that if they pitched a fit we really would leave even if it meant no groceries... so they did not pitch fits!  (My sons surely had their own imperfections growing up, but I will say that in general each of them usually behaved well in public.)

I don't know if this method would work for others; it did work for us. I guess I looked upon our grocery trips as learning experiences on how to behave in public, as well as trips to get groceries. 

Getting back to the OP's question: I did not allow our sons to carry items that we did not intend to buy. I would allow them to touch things, carefully, but if it was something we were not buying I did not allow them to carry it away from where they found it.


Edited moments later to add:
Re-reading my post, I think I sound self-righteous. I should disclose that my system only worked, I think looking back, because I had back-up: my wife. I did not have to take my kids with me to the grocery store if they were ill or cranky because I could time my grocery trips for when my wife was home, if need be.

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10