Can't take the hint

[Teenyweeny]

The most common piece of clothing worn by rape victims? Jeans. Probably because that's a very common thing to wear.

[Raintree]

Where do people get the idea that they can behave that way?

Maybe from movies, which always portray men who pursue actively and win in the end, and it's portrayed as sweet. The movie usually goes something like this: Man meets woman. Man and woman don't get along. Woman tells man to get lost. 2 hours of movie ensue, in which man finds different ways to win woman's heart, sometimes calling up to windows from sidewalk below. Woman softens eventually, and gets to "yes."

But I think this guy was just plain old garden-variety creepy.

[Teenyweeny]

A quote from one of my favourite shows.

'Faint heart never won fair maiden...the epigram that starts the stalker's manifesto'.

[KitKat]

Where do people get the idea that they can behave that way?

Maybe from movies, which always portray men who pursue actively and win in the end, and it's portrayed as sweet. The movie usually goes something like this: Man meets woman. Man and woman don't get along. Woman tells man to get lost. 2 hours of movie ensue, in which man finds different ways to win woman's heart, sometimes calling up to windows from sidewalk below. Woman softens eventually, and gets to "yes."

But I think this guy was just plain old garden-variety creepy.

Sounds like Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan in You've got mail. 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Who said we were only talking about rape? There's assault and robbery too for bad intentions.

[ShadesOfGrey]

I agree Teeny.  Clothing has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is assaulted, how many more studies need to be done on this?  When will people stop blaming the victim?  That attitude is so old and tired it just gives me a headache.

Of course it does.  Predators look for people that are easy targets. Clothing, stance, and demeanor all have to do with that.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yes *some* (there are many different types) predators look for easy targets. But in this case, 'easy target' means someone who looks like they are not aware of their surroundings, or who looks timid, or lost, or weak.

It has *zero* to do with whether the victim is wearing a short skirt, a bikini top and platform heels; or jeans and a hoodie; or a burqa.


ETA: The 'long hair as handle' thing is also a myth. I encourage you to find out about the Groth typology of rapists, and also to check out some facts at http://www.rainn.org/

I dont understand what you mean "in this case" - do you know the guy? do you know if he was an opportunistic predator, or a rapist, or just a socially clueless guy? Did he tell you he wasnt looking for an easy target, or that he didnt think in his head "heels=more difficult to run in."  Because that's the only way you can know for certain, that it 100% has notthing to do with what a victim is wearing. 

BTW, other than clothing, your site lists the things I mentioned to reduce your risk of assault as well. 

[LifeOnPluto]

This isn't about a guy who couldn't take a hint. It's about a guy who can't (or won't) heed a clear, unequivocal message. I mean, how plainer can "No, I don't want to dance with you" mean? Are there seriously guys out there who think "Ok, she told me twice that she didn't want to dance with me. But maybe she'll be willing to just chat with me. At her car."

[zyrs]

This isn't about a guy who couldn't take a hint. It's about a guy who can't (or won't) heed a clear, unequivocal message. I mean, how plainer can "No, I don't want to dance with you" mean? Are there seriously guys out there who think "Ok, she told me twice that she didn't want to dance with me. But maybe she'll be willing to just chat with me. At her car."

Yes, there are guys this completely clueless. 

[Gabrielle]

This isn't about a guy who couldn't take a hint. It's about a guy who can't (or won't) heed a clear, unequivocal message. I mean, how plainer can "No, I don't want to dance with you" mean? Are there seriously guys out there who think "Ok, she told me twice that she didn't want to dance with me. But maybe she'll be willing to just chat with me. At her car."

Yep. Because they're not female, so they don't get that following you out of the club to your car is creepy. They're not taught about how to prevent rape and assault so if the guy ISN'T creepy, it might not even cross his mind that he's coming across that way. Not that that's ok but...

[Teenyweeny]

I agree Teeny.  Clothing has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is assaulted, how many more studies need to be done on this?  When will people stop blaming the victim?  That attitude is so old and tired it just gives me a headache.

Of course it does.  Predators look for people that are easy targets. Clothing, stance, and demeanor all have to do with that.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Yes *some* (there are many different types) predators look for easy targets. But in this case, 'easy target' means someone who looks like they are not aware of their surroundings, or who looks timid, or lost, or weak.

It has *zero* to do with whether the victim is wearing a short skirt, a bikini top and platform heels; or jeans and a hoodie; or a burqa.


ETA: The 'long hair as handle' thing is also a myth. I encourage you to find out about the Groth typology of rapists, and also to check out some facts at http://www.rainn.org/

I dont understand what you mean "in this case" - do you know the guy? do you know if he was an opportunistic predator, or a rapist, or just a socially clueless guy? Did he tell you he wasnt looking for an easy target, or that he didnt think in his head "heels=more difficult to run in."  Because that's the only way you can know for certain, that it 100% has notthing to do with what a victim is wearing. 

BTW, other than clothing, your site lists the things I mentioned to reduce your risk of assault as well.

I mean, in the case of any man who is looking for a victim. The site I posted said that women should wear clothes that were easy to move around in. Ironically, if we did that, we'd dress like female athletes in tiny tight shorts and sports bras. Pretty revealing, I'd say.

I just hate this slut-shaming culture that we live in. You know what I'd say is probably hardest to run in? A long skirt and flip-flops. Yet society deems that appropriate, conservative attire. And I've *never* heard a judge in a rape trial say, "well, flip-flops *are* hard to run in, so essentially the victim invited this attack".

The clothing argument only ever seems to apply to clothes that society deems 'slutty'. And that's an argument that just sickens me.

/off soapbox

[ShadesOfGrey]

We'll that's not what I was saying, and I really wish you had taken the time to discus the issue instead of getting on a soap box about what you thought I was saying. Regardless, I agree withthe PP's he was at best extremely clueless, at worst a predator.

[Winterlight]

This isn't about a guy who couldn't take a hint. It's about a guy who can't (or won't) heed a clear, unequivocal message. I mean, how plainer can "No, I don't want to dance with you" mean? Are there seriously guys out there who think "Ok, she told me twice that she didn't want to dance with me. But maybe she'll be willing to just chat with me. At her car."

Think about Rebecca Watson's recent encounter, which blew up into a furor in the atheist community.

“so I walk to the elevator, and a man got on the elevator with me and said, ‘Don’t take this the wrong way, but I find you very interesting, and I would like to talk more. Would you like to come to my hotel room for coffee?’ Um, just a word to wise here, guys, uh, don’t do that. You know, I don’t really know how else to explain how this makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I’ll just sort of lay it out that I was a single woman, you know, in a foreign country, at 4:00 am, in a hotel elevator, with you, just you, and–don’t invite me back to your hotel room right after I finish talking about how it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable when men sexualize me in that manner…”

She begins talking about what led up to it at 2:40, and describes the encounter at 4:30.

http://skepchick.org/2011/06/about-mythbusters-robot-eyes-feminism-and-jokes/

[Nanny Ogg]

I agree Teeny.  Clothing has nothing to do with whether or not a woman is assaulted, how many more studies need to be done on this?  When will people stop blaming the victim?  That attitude is so old and tired it just gives me a headache.

Of course it does.  Predators look for people that are easy targets. Clothing, stance, and demeanor all have to do with that.

That's a vast and damaging generalisation. In the uk, on average 97% of callers to rape crisis lines know their assailant. There is only one thing that makes a woman a target for rape, and that's proximity to a rapist.

That is one of the wisest things I've ever seen said on this board.