Author Topic: Schenanigans?  (Read 26795 times)

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Nurvingiel

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2011, 05:42:36 PM »
That was well said Aventurine.

I don't like people passing off a fake story as true because that is lying. I don't think it's polite to lie to people, so shouldn't that sort of behaviour be unacceptable here?
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Lynn2000

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 05:46:28 PM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

You know, if it's a "good" thread which leads to meaty discussion of etiquette points and doesn't turn nasty, I don't think I'd be upset to later learn that it didn't actually happen to that exact poster. I'd probably think, "Huh, that's weird, why the coy disguise?" but I wouldn't be outraged or upset or anything.

I think the problem comes when, as Two Ravens just posted, the purpose of the fake story is just to elicit sympathy and/or stir up trouble, especially if a sensitive subject is involved. To be honest I don't find stories where the OP is clearly in the right and Rude Bob is clearly rude to be very interesting and I don't usually post in them or follow them--not because I think they might be fake, but just because I'd rather read/contribute to a thread with some actual discussion.
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aventurine

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2011, 05:56:56 PM »
I think the problem comes when, as Two Ravens just posted, the purpose of the fake story is just to elicit sympathy and/or stir up trouble, especially if a sensitive subject is involved. To be honest I don't find stories where the OP is clearly in the right and Rude Bob is clearly rude to be very interesting and I don't usually post in them or follow them--not because I think they might be fake, but just because I'd rather read/contribute to a thread with some actual discussion.

ITA with you and Two Ravens.  I've noticed that I don't usually post in these kinds of threads, and you've helped me realize why - when there's no actual etiquette question, just a black hat/white hat situation, I typically just read the OP and then forget about it until it blows up to multiple pages and/or get locked.  Must be why I've never developed any kind of trolldar   ;D

I don't like people passing off a fake story as true because that is lying. I don't think it's polite to lie to people, so shouldn't that sort of behaviour be unacceptable here?

That's an excellent point.  What's more rude than the intent to deceive?




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MaggieB

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2011, 06:07:41 PM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

I don't think that they're "OK" or that they should be encouraged, but honestly, I think it's the price of being on the internet.  Some people like to make up stories and post them online.  We can't go all vigilante on each other and try to vet every story.  It's not productive, and it's not polite.

We've all been in situations too crazy to be true.  I don't know whether the story in the other thread is true, and it really doesn't matter to me.  It could still lead to useful discussion about what to do when you're in one of those situations that is just so out there that you're caught completely off guard.

I do think it's different when the made-up stories are so emotionally charged that they're painful to others.  Making up stories like that should, in my opinion, be corrected and closed.

Ehelldame

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2011, 06:13:40 PM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

Unless you have proof a story is fictional or you have somehow acquired psychic talents that I lack, you are not in any position to be publicly calling out someone just because you have a "feeling".  Public speculation as to someone's veracity without supporting evidence is rude.   Read everything at face value, eat the meat and spit out the bones and move on if you think something is hinky. 

Erich L-ster

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2011, 06:22:54 PM »
Is it ok to ask a non-accusatory question as to how pieces X and Y fit together? I don't want it to come off as mean spirited but if something doesn't fit with something else can one ask? If indeed everything's on the level there may be a good explanation. I probably wont ask it now that it's become an issue I just want to know if it's allright to ask.

aventurine

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2011, 06:36:51 PM »
In the past, that's the method that has been encouraged, Erich L-ster.




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Eisa

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2011, 06:43:28 PM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

Unless you have proof a story is fictional or you have somehow acquired psychic talents that I lack, you are not in any position to be publicly calling out someone just because you have a "feeling".  Public speculation as to someone's veracity without supporting evidence is rude.   Read everything at face value, eat the meat and spit out the bones and move on if you think something is hinky. 

POD. :) I have to agree that if you don't have proof, saying it publicly isn't a good idea. If you really think something is crazy-hinky, wouldn't it be a better idea to either wait or report it to the mods rather than call the poster out?
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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2011, 06:51:02 PM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

Unless you have proof a story is fictional or you have somehow acquired psychic talents that I lack, you are not in any position to be publicly calling out someone just because you have a "feeling".  Public speculation as to someone's veracity without supporting evidence is rude.   Read everything at face value, eat the meat and spit out the bones and move on if you think something is hinky. 

POD. :) I have to agree that if you don't have proof, saying it publicly isn't a good idea. If you really think something is crazy-hinky, wouldn't it be a better idea to either wait or report it to the mods rather than call the poster out?

Just to clarify, I never advocated "calling someone out."  I was responding to the notion of "It doesn't matter if it is made up - it can still teach a lesson." 

kingsrings

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2011, 07:01:37 PM »
I just stay away from threads/posters that I don't believe are true. I just go with my gut instinct and keep aware of patterns. That's really the only way to go about it, because there's usually no way to prove, and calling someone out just causes problems.

And now after EHell Dame's post about "A handful of members were placed on 14 day gag for their behavior in that thread", I pictured in my head a small jail cell holding a handful of members with gags over their mouths and their hands tied, heh.

sugar pie

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2011, 07:56:15 PM »
Sometimes it is glaringly apparent that a post or story is a creative writing exercise rather than a true happening. I understand that calling it out is frowned upon and I will not do that but I'm curious: are fake stories that are represented as true no big deal or is that something that is unwanted too?

How do you know a story is "glaringly apparent" that it is fiction?  I've published some extraordinarily outrageous stories in prior books that would leave the reader questioning the storytellers' credibility but I have signed documents verifying the authenticity of the events.  Absolutely nothing surprises me anymore.  The thread you are obliquely referring to in this thread doesn't come close to fantastically unbelievable when compared to real life stories that are far more bizarre.

And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

A handful of members were placed on 14 day gag for their behavior in that thread and several others *just* barely missed moderation.   Several of the newly gagged already had a record of prior gags for similar behavior which means that following someone else's lead in a thread can be a very bad idea as they may be a troublemaker with a history on this forum or a troll trying to get as many people in trouble as possible (they know they are going bye-bye and they'll try to take as many with them as they can).

Is there a way for us to hear about that? Like maybe a moderator stepping into a thread and giving a warning?

I was going through that thread and feeling like it was sounding a little "mean girls" to me, but had you not said this, I wouldn't have known that people were being moderated and even put on hiatus for that.

I've often considered asking posters about situations from my own life, but I hesitate to do that, because I'm afraid of precisely these types of reactions. (I lurked here for a long time before registering, so this isn't just a recent thought)

I feel like I've seen the mods address this before, but I can't remember where. I know there are arguments against it (it lends more attention to the malefactors, it has an air of public stoning to it...) but while I don't need to know that someone has been gagged, I do feel a note saying, "blah blah blah is not acceptable forum behavior" would be useful so users will know that it's been addressed and can learn from the experience. YMMV.

penelope2017

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2011, 08:02:49 PM »
I do think it would be appreciated if a mod stepped in and warned posters when people start to head into gag-worthy behavior, as someone mentioned above.

In fact, in the PinkWildRose thread, I think someone even said because EhellDame had posted in that thread, surely she would have admonished posters if they were out of line. That line can often be nebulous when it comes to this board in terms of gag-able behavior. Perhaps if a warning is laid down first, people will learn for the future. While I can see how some of the posts in that thread maybe have been a little wise-guy, it would not have occurred to me they were gag-worthy.

It's easy to fall into a pattern of going along with the joke in the thread. Human nature, even. I admit I read that thread immediately feeling it was false, or exaggerated, from the first read, before anyone else made a comment. I realize that outlandish things happen to people, but it starts to feel a little out of the realm of reality when it seems like repeatedly outlandish things happen to the same person due to far-reaching coincidences.

A repeated saga like Marina's neighbor made sense. She lived next door. Of course run ins would happen more than once.  As someone also said, fictional stories that aren't designed to evoke sympathy or commiseration are one thing. Ones that have a clear villain don't seem productive to me other than to boost someone's ego or earn them attention. Hypothetically, if the Ty story was false, was there going to be any discussion of who was right or wrong? Clearly this was a blatant horrendous act.

Even as a truth, when an OP has that much of a clear imbalance in the right/wrong department, I sort of see it as a rant rather than a legitimate discussion starter. I also notice the 'rant' type post:

"I went to the store, someone cut me, but I stood up for myself. He cursed me under his breath but moved to the back of the line.

Glad I got the last brownie we were both eyeing. (insert winky/devilish emoticon here)"

are becoming more, and more frequent. Both fictional or otherwise, I don't really get the benefit in posting a story you already know you were entirely right. Where's the discussion?


jimithing

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2011, 11:59:51 PM »
I do think it would be appreciated if a mod stepped in and warned posters when people start to head into gag-worthy behavior, as someone mentioned above.

In fact, in the PinkWildRose thread, I think someone even said because EhellDame had posted in that thread, surely she would have admonished posters if they were out of line. That line can often be nebulous when it comes to this board in terms of gag-able behavior. Perhaps if a warning is laid down first, people will learn for the future. While I can see how some of the posts in that thread maybe have been a little wise-guy, it would not have occurred to me they were gag-worthy.

It's easy to fall into a pattern of going along with the joke in the thread. Human nature, even. I admit I read that thread immediately feeling it was false, or exaggerated, from the first read, before anyone else made a comment. I realize that outlandish things happen to people, but it starts to feel a little out of the realm of reality when it seems like repeatedly outlandish things happen to the same person due to far-reaching coincidences.

A repeated saga like Marina's neighbor made sense. She lived next door. Of course run ins would happen more than once.  As someone also said, fictional stories that aren't designed to evoke sympathy or commiseration are one thing. Ones that have a clear villain don't seem productive to me other than to boost someone's ego or earn them attention. Hypothetically, if the Ty story was false, was there going to be any discussion of who was right or wrong? Clearly this was a blatant horrendous act.

Even as a truth, when an OP has that much of a clear imbalance in the right/wrong department, I sort of see it as a rant rather than a legitimate discussion starter. I also notice the 'rant' type post:

"I went to the store, someone cut me, but I stood up for myself. He cursed me under his breath but moved to the back of the line.

Glad I got the last brownie we were both eyeing. (insert winky/devilish emoticon here)"

are becoming more, and more frequent. Both fictional or otherwise, I don't really get the benefit in posting a story you already know you were entirely right. Where's the discussion?

Totally agree. I generally have the worst trolldar. But when I realize that some of the most outrageous, rude stories, are all happening to the same person, in all aspects of their life, that definitely raises lots of red flags.

People do have crazy, outlandish things happen to them. Truth is stranger than fiction, as they say. But when it's with every single person in their life, and details start to bleed together and don't back each other up, that's when my troll ears perk up.

DuBois

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2011, 04:41:12 AM »
And what if it was fiction?  Can you not extract the etiquette (or lack thereof)  of the tale as  a learning experience?

Really?  Fictional stories/tales of outlandish behavior are okay as long as they teach a lesson?

I don't think that they're "OK" or that they should be encouraged, but honestly, I think it's the price of being on the internet.  Some people like to make up stories and post them online.  We can't go all vigilante on each other and try to vet every story.  It's not productive, and it's not polite.

We've all been in situations too crazy to be true.  I don't know whether the story in the other thread is true, and it really doesn't matter to me.  It could still lead to useful discussion about what to do when you're in one of those situations that is just so out there that you're caught completely off guard.

I do think it's different when the made-up stories are so emotionally charged that they're painful to others.  Making up stories like that should, in my opinion, be corrected and closed.

This, exactly. I also think the 'calling out' posters in the thread in question were pretty rude. But even if that story had been fake(which I don't think it was) it does no harm to anyone, unlike the ones about miscarriages and stuff.

General Jinjur

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Re: Schenanigans?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2011, 05:04:09 AM »
I wouldn't mind hypotheticals either.  But it seems to me that the way the majority of these thread go, the OP posts an outlandishlish story in which Rude Bob is very rude indeed, and the majority of the responses consist of "What a jerk!" and "Poor you, OP."  They hardly prompt a debate about the etiquette of the situation (because there usually isn't one - just a person acting outlandishly), or teach any kind of lesson that I can see.

Eh, Rude Bob is totally real. My Rude Bob, anyway. Drinking, you know.