Author Topic: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans  (Read 17793 times)

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immadz

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2011, 11:52:54 PM »
The way I see it Alton Brown as a private citizen has a right to have any policies he wants for his book signings. And if you (you in general) don't like his polices or feel he's favoring one group of people over another then you can choose to not go to his book signings. That's your choice and your right. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing things that way but no you don't have to like them. One could always write a letter of complaint to him about it if they feel strongly enough.

Ed.

This is a discussion about whether or not we approve of parts of his manifesto. I would say it is completely appropriate to voice your disagreement over here.


Lisbeth

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2011, 12:18:03 AM »
The way I see it Alton Brown as a private citizen has a right to have any policies he wants for his book signings. And if you (you in general) don't like his polices or feel he's favoring one group of people over another then you can choose to not go to his book signings. That's your choice and your right. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing things that way but no you don't have to like them. One could always write a letter of complaint to him about it if they feel strongly enough.

Ed.

This is a discussion about whether or not we approve of parts of his manifesto. I would say it is completely appropriate to voice your disagreement over here.

I disagree.  This is a discussion about whether or not the manifesto is or isn't in compliance with etiquette.  If we feel that it is not because we disagree with one of his policies, we have every right to say so.
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Master_Edward

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2011, 12:23:54 AM »
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying immadz. I'm just saying he's free to make whatever policies he wants for his book signing appearances and people are free to disagree with them and can choose to not go to his book signings. I don't think anyone can tell him how to run his book signings but if they hate his policies that much they don't have to support him. Personally I don't think he's wrong for his policies and I don't know that anyone's wrong to disagree with them. I'm just saying if you don't like them then don't support him and don't go to any of his book signings. Your choice.

Ed.

immadz

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #108 on: September 28, 2011, 12:41:52 AM »
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying immadz. I'm just saying he's free to make whatever policies he wants for his book signing appearances and people are free to disagree with them and can choose to not go to his book signings. I don't think anyone can tell him how to run his book signings but if they hate his policies that much they don't have to support him. Personally I don't think he's wrong for his policies and I don't know that anyone's wrong to disagree with them. I'm just saying if you don't like them then don't support him and don't go to any of his book signings. Your choice.

Ed.

Your post seems to imply two things
1. Voting with our support is the only vote that counts. and (2) those of us who are objecting to the manifesto points on this thread are somehow not in the right. I disagree with both these implications. Sometimes, a public voice of complaint is just as good of a message. I actually don't care about him one way or another. However, I am sure there are several things that are minor annoyances which will not make me walk away but it will make me happier if they are resolved. Also, since this thread started by stating his manifesto we are all free to voice our pleasure or displeasure at his policies on here.


Rohanna

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2011, 01:06:39 AM »
Rohanna, I can well understand what you speak of regarding family traditions - my many years of family reunions have had similar practices.  And, not being familiar with what may constitute a "Pow Wow" outside your family gatherings, my only comment would be that any precedence beyond first come first served may be the agreed upon norm for a communal gathering.  In the case of a purely public gathering, the organizers may apply rules which do or do not meet the *desires* of all who may wish to attend.

You point out that your desire/expectation of any different practice than that established for an event governed by family culture would be rude, and while you don't say so expressly, I presume you mean the same would apply regarding a request for a practice other than is in place for a public event.  But I did want to ask if that is so.  My posts are not always as clear to others as they seem to me, and your statement that "cultural or personal preferences apply" had me wondering if you meant either applies, or one applies unless the other contradicts, or simply that majority view should apply.  Because postings can be open to various reads, I do not mean that as a snarky question, but literal reader that I may be, wanted to ask for clarification.

Sorry, I'll clarify :) By pow wow I meant the feast that occurs after an actual pow wow (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pow_wow) - while some are less formal, the ones I attend still adhere strictly to the idea that if you attend, you give your place in lines to elders without question, and with deference. 

I would be rather put out if AB didn't make some mention of his policies, or explain why he did things a little differently at the time he was doing it, because if I went to his events expecting "first come, first serve", I'd probably be fleetingly annoyed that it wasn't, even if I agreed entirely with his rationale. But he's established that to his fan base, and explained why he does so, and explained what he's offering in return- so it's up to me to decide if I feel his event is still worth attending or not- it's not up to me to decide that his rules aren't "fair" and he should change them just for me.

The reason I brought up native canadian "feast/pow wow" etiquette is because it is an example of the reverse (children waiting for elders), and that I don't find that rude either- I believe that sometimes events establish their own rules that might not always be in my favour, but I follow them or don't go.

Another example of this kind of thing is "ladies nights" at bars. Or seniors menus/free coffees. The local hockey arena offers a discount to fans with face paint in the team colours. Insurance companies offer girls lower rates than boys. Single well dressed and behaved travellors might find themselves more likely to be bumped to first class on planes. Some places offer free or reduced admission to people with handicap cards/tags. Lots of businesses and events set their own rules, and sometimes they favour one group over another....and there's always going to be someone that isn't happy with it no matter what they do.
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

LibChick

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #110 on: September 28, 2011, 01:36:11 PM »
Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?

Every airline I've ever flown does it, on every flight I've ever taken.

Southwest does not.

They did the last time I flew them. Business first, then families with small children and persons with disabilities and then regular boarding by zone....

From the Southwest website:

An adult traveling with a child four years old or younger may board during Family Boarding, which occurs between the "A" and "B" boarding groups. However, those Customers holding an "A" boarding pass should still board with the "A" boarding group. With an all-jet fleet outfitted with comfortable, leather seats, our families traveling with small children are easily accommodated together.

They only preboard people with disabilities, etc.



Lisbeth

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2011, 01:38:54 PM »
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying immadz. I'm just saying he's free to make whatever policies he wants for his book signing appearances and people are free to disagree with them and can choose to not go to his book signings. I don't think anyone can tell him how to run his book signings but if they hate his policies that much they don't have to support him. Personally I don't think he's wrong for his policies and I don't know that anyone's wrong to disagree with them. I'm just saying if you don't like them then don't support him and don't go to any of his book signings. Your choice.

Ed.

Your post seems to imply two things
1. Voting with our support is the only vote that counts. and (2) those of us who are objecting to the manifesto points on this thread are somehow not in the right. I disagree with both these implications. Sometimes, a public voice of complaint is just as good of a message. I actually don't care about him one way or another. However, I am sure there are several things that are minor annoyances which will not make me walk away but it will make me happier if they are resolved. Also, since this thread started by stating his manifesto we are all free to voice our pleasure or displeasure at his policies on here.

I don't see anything in Ed's posts to suggest that he is implying either thing.  I happen to agree with whomever believes that Alton Brown or anyone else has the right to set the rules for a book signing, and if you, I, or anyone else doesn't like them, we can vote with our feet-by not participating.  There's nothing rude about that-or about that opinion.
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immadz

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #112 on: September 28, 2011, 01:58:18 PM »
The way I see it Alton Brown as a private citizen has a right to have any policies he wants for his book signings. And if you (you in general) don't like his polices or feel he's favoring one group of people over another then you can choose to not go to his book signings. That's your choice and your right. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing things that way but no you don't have to like them. One could always write a letter of complaint to him about it if they feel strongly enough.

Ed.

This is a discussion about whether or not we approve of parts of his manifesto. I would say it is completely appropriate to voice your disagreement over here.

I disagree.  This is a discussion about whether or not the manifesto is or isn't in compliance with etiquette.  If we feel that it is not because we disagree with one of his policies, we have every right to say so.
I agree. I believe giving one group of people who perhaps poorly plan their social events preference over another group which includes people who are perhaps in group one but better planned to be slightly rude.


immadz

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #113 on: September 28, 2011, 02:00:45 PM »
Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?

Every airline I've ever flown does it, on every flight I've ever taken.

Southwest does not.

They did the last time I flew them. Business first, then families with small children and persons with disabilities and then regular boarding by zone....

From the Southwest website:

An adult traveling with a child four years old or younger may board during Family Boarding, which occurs between the "A" and "B" boarding groups. However, those Customers holding an "A" boarding pass should still board with the "A" boarding group. With an all-jet fleet outfitted with comfortable, leather seats, our families traveling with small children are easily accommodated together.

They only preboard people with disabilities, etc.

well families board before me since I am always in group B. Also all their zones have numbers so a family with a young child with B51 would board ahead of me with a B20. Since their seats are first come first serve, this ensures that families get to pick reasonably good seat since only 60 people have entered the plane before them and most of the back rows including aisle and windows (excluding emergency exit seats) are still free.


Rohanna

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #114 on: September 28, 2011, 02:39:10 PM »
The way I see it Alton Brown as a private citizen has a right to have any policies he wants for his book signings. And if you (you in general) don't like his polices or feel he's favoring one group of people over another then you can choose to not go to his book signings. That's your choice and your right. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing things that way but no you don't have to like them. One could always write a letter of complaint to him about it if they feel strongly enough.

Ed.

There's no evidence of poor planning or behavior though- it's all been assumption that it's so. You dnt know that the plan wasn't "let's go see what the lineup is like- oh, it's way too long let's get jr. home...." and that AB remembers what that's like and wants to give parents the favor he would have appreciated.  It's the repeated assertions of "rewarding bad behavior" that get irritating, since it's a mean spirited assumption.

This is a discussion about whether or not we approve of parts of his manifesto. I would say it is completely appropriate to voice your disagreement over here.

I disagree.  This is a discussion about whether or not the manifesto is or isn't in compliance with etiquette.  If we feel that it is not because we disagree with one of his policies, we have every right to say so.
I agree. I believe giving one group of people who perhaps poorly plan their social events preference over another group which includes people who are perhaps in group one but better planned to be slightly rude.
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

penelope2017

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #115 on: September 28, 2011, 03:09:01 PM »
The way I see it Alton Brown as a private citizen has a right to have any policies he wants for his book signings. And if you (you in general) don't like his polices or feel he's favoring one group of people over another then you can choose to not go to his book signings. That's your choice and your right. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing things that way but no you don't have to like them. One could always write a letter of complaint to him about it if they feel strongly enough.

Ed.

This is a discussion about whether or not we approve of parts of his manifesto. I would say it is completely appropriate to voice your disagreement over here.

I disagree.  This is a discussion about whether or not the manifesto is or isn't in compliance with etiquette.  If we feel that it is not because we disagree with one of his policies, we have every right to say so.
I agree. I believe giving one group of people who perhaps poorly plan their social events preference over another group which includes people who are perhaps in group one but better planned to be slightly rude.

 There is no indication anyone planned better or worse at all.  Again, he did not say anything about badly behaved kids, noise etc. He just said it is his choice to let families with small children go first.

Where are you reading in that manifesto that parents planned badly?

aventurine

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #116 on: September 28, 2011, 03:23:56 PM »
It's an assumption, albeit a reasonable one (IMO) that he's referring to kids who are expressing displeasure at being out later than normal.  Naturally, he doesn't want to come out and say that - it's bad PR - but what he said about bedtimes led me to believe that's what he meant.

Of course, I'm neither Alton Brown nor his brain, and I don't work on his PR team, so the above is worth what you paid for it.   ;D




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LibChick

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #117 on: September 28, 2011, 03:29:47 PM »
Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?

Every airline I've ever flown does it, on every flight I've ever taken.

Southwest does not.

They did the last time I flew them. Business first, then families with small children and persons with disabilities and then regular boarding by zone....

From the Southwest website:

An adult traveling with a child four years old or younger may board during Family Boarding, which occurs between the "A" and "B" boarding groups. However, those Customers holding an "A" boarding pass should still board with the "A" boarding group. With an all-jet fleet outfitted with comfortable, leather seats, our families traveling with small children are easily accommodated together.

They only preboard people with disabilities, etc.

well families board before me since I am always in group B. Also all their zones have numbers so a family with a young child with B51 would board ahead of me with a B20. Since their seats are first come first serve, this ensures that families get to pick reasonably good seat since only 60 people have entered the plane before them and most of the back rows including aisle and windows (excluding emergency exit seats) are still free.

I see what you're saying, but they don't necessarily get the pick of the good seats. Last time I flew Southwest with my daughter, who was 2 and had her own seat, the people who boarded before got all the front seats. This meant I had to travel down skinny aisle to the first open seats I could find and try not to whack people in the head with her car seat. I'm short and it was difficult.



penelope2017

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #118 on: September 28, 2011, 03:57:05 PM »
It's an assumption, albeit a reasonable one (IMO) that he's referring to kids who are expressing displeasure at being out later than normal.  Naturally, he doesn't want to come out and say that - it's bad PR - but what he said about bedtimes led me to believe that's what he meant.

Of course, I'm neither Alton Brown nor his brain, and I don't work on his PR team, so the above is worth what you paid for it.   ;D
[/quote

I keep coming back to this though, this is the crux of my disagreement with these types of posts:

When tackling large signings I try to move fast to get you home. I will often ask that families with small children be allowed to come to the front of the line so that they can get out and to bed at a decent hour.

He is trying to be considerate  of families with small kids. That's it. There is nothing to indicate otherwise. It's a. an assumption to think he's talking about badly behaved kids and further add to that assumption b. that it is therefore rewarding poor planning. I believe he has small kids, so perhaps he is particularly compassionate to others in the same position.

If you don't like the policy, I get it. But it is maligning of parents with regard to it that isn't fair, IMHO. Me taking my 4 year old to a book signing at 7 and waiting an hour or whatever would not remotely be poor planning on my part, whether or not he let us go first.

The guy was blatantly honest in this "fanifesto," to the point that someone posted it here to see if anyone thought he had gone so far as to be rude in doing so. I think if he wanted to say anything more than the above, he would have said it. I think the dude speaks his mind, and we shouldn't read anymore into his words than what they are.

Blame the policy maker, don't make the parents rude for bringing kids because he made a policy that serves them first.

sisbam

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #119 on: September 28, 2011, 06:32:36 PM »
I think there is a reason AB decided to make this policy. The reason could be as simple as him wanting to be considerate. Or perhaps he's had unpleasant experiences in the past which lead to this solution. All we can do is speculate. And opine. I think saying "If you don't like it, you don't have to go" is counterproductive to the discussion. It's a very dismissive statement.