Author Topic: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans  (Read 18097 times)

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penelope2017

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #75 on: September 24, 2011, 11:19:50 PM »
I have said repeatedly that it is most certainly his prerogative. That doesn't mean I agree with the policy.

Quote
I will often ask that families with small children be allowed to come to the front of the line so that they can get out and to bed at a decent hour.

To me, this implies that if he doesn't allow them to come to the front of the line, they won't be able to get out and get the children to bed on time.

I only brought up bad behavior because others did so. I was responding to that.

And? It doesn't imply it. He says it out right. I don't know if he has kids or how old they are, but maybe he appreciates kid need to get to bed. You can disagree with his policy, but you implied that such a policy is a reason parents shouldn't have kids at book signings.

You asked who said rely on, and now you are saying that yes, parents do have to rely on this policy. And if that's the case, then perhaps parents should rethink whether such a late-night event is the place to take their children. He did say he often does this, but he didn't say always. It might not happen. Then what?


I never said parents have to rely on this policy. How many people even know about it? I said he appreciates kids need to get to bed. Where did I say anyone's relying on it?

If he doesn't do it, then what?

Then kids go to bed later, I guess. No one is demanding or relying on anything.

bluedahlia

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #76 on: September 24, 2011, 11:53:42 PM »
I have said repeatedly that it is most certainly his prerogative. That doesn't mean I agree with the policy.

Quote
I will often ask that families with small children be allowed to come to the front of the line so that they can get out and to bed at a decent hour.

To me, this implies that if he doesn't allow them to come to the front of the line, they won't be able to get out and get the children to bed on time.

I only brought up bad behavior because others did so. I was responding to that.

And? It doesn't imply it. He says it out right. I don't know if he has kids or how old they are, but maybe he appreciates kid need to get to bed. You can disagree with his policy, but you implied that such a policy is a reason parents shouldn't have kids at book signings.

You asked who said rely on, and now you are saying that yes, parents do have to rely on this policy. And if that's the case, then perhaps parents should rethink whether such a late-night event is the place to take their children. He did say he often does this, but he didn't say always. It might not happen. Then what?

Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

KimberlyRose

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2011, 12:27:13 AM »
Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

Exactly.  Thank you.

aventurine

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2011, 03:32:59 AM »
Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

"Family friendly" gets tiresome when it [continually] trumps first come, first served. 

I added "continually" because I don't always mind it and sometimes would welcome it, in the case of a meltdown.  But as it becomes more commonplace, which it has because there are a lot of parents out there and appeasing them is smart business, it pushes some of us further and further back in line, literally and figuratively.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 03:35:41 AM by aventurine »




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buvezdevin

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2011, 10:48:31 AM »
Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

"Family friendly" gets tiresome when it [continually] trumps first come, first served. 

I added "continually" because I don't always mind it and sometimes would welcome it, in the case of a meltdown.  But as it becomes more commonplace, which it has because there are a lot of parents out there and appeasing them is smart business, it pushes some of us further and further back in line, literally and figuratively.

POD.  To me, "family friendly" would typically mean an event organized in such a way that those with children *do not need* special consideration. 

An evening event which is not structured to be particularly "family friendly" but which also does not exclude children's attendance is the type event where it may actually make sense to have those with children present given precedence in a line, in part because those with children present would typically be a much smaller percentage of those attending.  A "family friendly" event may consist of an audience in which a majority attend with children, in which case moving them to the front of the line would effectively be penalizing those who attended without children.

If I were at a "family friendly" venue, I would not expect to be asked to wait until all with children at hand went first, because that would actually imply it to be "family preferred".
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penelope2017

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2011, 10:22:08 PM »
Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

"Family friendly" gets tiresome when it [continually] trumps first come, first served. 

I added "continually" because I don't always mind it and sometimes would welcome it, in the case of a meltdown.  But as it becomes more commonplace, which it has because there are a lot of parents out there and appeasing them is smart business, it pushes some of us further and further back in line, literally and figuratively.

Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?

Because it has never, ever happened to me. I'm not even saying I'd take them up on it. But it's never happened.  Not once. Maybe  I live in the wrong area or something. So I find it strange to say people are finding Alton Brown's attitude tiresome as if the whole world makes events family friendly, when my experience, as a family structure I'm assuming he's talking about, is the opposite.

We're not talking about people who bring their ill behaved children to restaurants or other wise disrupted places and are left to disrupt because owners are afraid to turn away their business. Again, he did not say he'd move ill behaved children and families up front. Just families with small children.

Please, I'd really love to know from those objecting to this policy how they encounter this on a regular and continual basis. Where being moved to the back of the line behind families with children happens.  Because even going to the supermarket is a hair raising experience for me.  Really.


Rohanna

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2011, 10:58:48 PM »
I too, would like to move to this/these places where that happens, because that sure hasn't been my experience at home or in my fair extensive travels. In fact, outside of a chuck-e-cheese, I'm just happy if my kid isn't met with a sneer these days, rather than extra consideration.

Also, it's rather nasty to assume it is *only* because of bad behaviour. Maybe he has witnessed parents leaving (appropriately) because of long lines and childrens bedtimes/tired/whingeyness, and he would really like them to be able to get their book signed AND get the kid home to bed on time, rather than one or the other. It's perfectly possible that most of the parents he sees are behaving just fine, but that he'd like to be able to sign their books too.

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. ~ Jack Layton.

LibChick

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2011, 11:06:24 PM »
I too, would like to move to this/these places where that happens, because that sure hasn't been my experience at home or in my fair extensive travels. In fact, outside of a chuck-e-cheese, I'm just happy if my kid isn't met with a sneer these days, rather than extra consideration.

Also, it's rather nasty to assume it is *only* because of bad behaviour. Maybe he has witnessed parents leaving (appropriately) because of long lines and childrens bedtimes/tired/whingeyness, and he would really like them to be able to get their book signed AND get the kid home to bed on time, rather than one or the other. It's perfectly possible that most of the parents he sees are behaving just fine, but that he'd like to be able to sign their books too.

You said what I've been thinking!



Piratelvr1121

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2011, 11:52:06 PM »
Not going to touch the kids to the front book signing issue, but wanted to comment on his not wanting his family photographed.

I personally have a lot of respect for celebrities who choose to keep their family out of the limelight.  Johnny Depp is one who also feels this way, as he's even said that he and his girlfriend Vanessa Paradis have chosen to be famous but their kids haven't so they shouldn't have to deal with all the attention and lack of privacy that the parents do.   They want to give their kids as normal a childhood as possible and I think that's great.

My almost 9 year old told me this summer, after seeing a blurb on GMA about Tori Spelling's reality show, that he doesn't like how people have reality shows with their kids on it, saying "I wouldn't want a tv in our house all the time just cause my parents were famous.   I'd want more privacy."
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Black Delphinium

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2011, 12:00:57 AM »


My almost 9 year old told me this summer, after seeing a blurb on GMA about Tori Spelling's reality show, that he doesn't like how people have reality shows with their kids on it, saying "I wouldn't want a tv in our house all the time just cause my parents were famous.   I'd want more privacy."
That's why you never saw Amiee Osbourne on their reality show, she refused to be on the show.
When angels go bad, they go worse than anyone. Remember, Lucifer was an angel. ~The Marquis De Carabas

snowdragon

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2011, 02:58:56 PM »
Alton Brown has chosen to make his events family friendly.  It's amazing to me that anyone can find such a thing offensive but those who might possibly be offended certainly don't have to attend.

"Family friendly" gets tiresome when it [continually] trumps first come, first served. 

I added "continually" because I don't always mind it and sometimes would welcome it, in the case of a meltdown.  But as it becomes more commonplace, which it has because there are a lot of parents out there and appeasing them is smart business, it pushes some of us further and further back in line, literally and figuratively.

Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?


Well, I have a 2 and 4 yr old and I'd love to know where you are finding these businesses that I'm missing out on that continually move families to the front of the line. Can you enlighten me?

In my city the biggest offenders are the cultural institutions - where they hold “community days” and actively discriminate against the singles.  At one admission is like $10 for a single person but a parent can bring up to 2 kids for that same $10 and participate themselves ( bringing the price to 33.3 cents person ) and if it’s well enough attended that things run - the singles are supposed to give way to families, at another singles are actively discouraged from even coming to the “community days” , even if they are members, at yet another I’ve been first in line for a major event - only to be told to step back and let those with kids in first. At the zoo, I was prohibited from touching the “touch me please” displays because I was with out children present - even after I waited in line for a half hour.  Two  of those I’ve dropped my membership and at another I have severely curtailed it as well as changing where I volunteer to another museum, and for culturals loosing membership money is a bad thing these days - especially from the demographic group that pays more person and - in my city, at least- gets the least services and programming.


Then of course there are instances that I get this while traveling - one of the worst was in Cape Breton, NS at the miner’s museum. I went to get tickets for the Men of the Deeps concert and it was going to be sold out - waited in line for my turn, waited while the box office lady went for a “necessary break” and then when it was my turn to get my ticket, even tho the family was a couple of folks behind me - they were offered the tickets first and I was expected to step aside and allow them to purchase the tickets, even tho’ that meant me not getting in because my friend and I were not a family and “families come first here”.  I don’t patronize their concerts anymore, buy their cds or have anything to do with them, because of that policy.

And there is also the expectation that adults need to let kids ahead of them in exhibit areas - because the kids are shorter...or whatever, sorry, no. I waited my turn to be able to see whatever - I paid to be able to see whatever, I should not always have to go to the back of the line and only see what families decide I can because I am a single adult. I deserve my turn to be able to be up front, pet the animals, interact with the display, ect. too. 


I can also remember going to P.F. Chang’s near me being allowed to pay for my buffet on Friday night and having management place babyseats at the only available table - for the family who was well behind me in line- effectively reserving it for them and telling my companion and I to “wait for a table” even tho we had already paid and the family had not.   I asked for my money  back, got an argument about it - but eventually got it and left.

One of the other local places, a pancake house ,will seat families first - even if they have to move tables together and jump over couples who have been waiting longer and even if they have two couples waiting for the tables the restaurant pushed together to accommodate the family.


You can tell me if I don’t like it -stay home - but I if or anyone else said “if parents and kids need special accommodations they can stay home” there’d be a hue and cry about it - but it’s apparently ok to say to an adult expecting to be treated equally -the fact that no such reaction happened in defense of the non child toting adults speaks volumes.

Alton Brown may have the right to say this -but it does not mean he gets to not deal with fall out from it. The adults who loose their place in line because they don't have a kid in tow..have the option of no longer suppoting him and if enough of them make their displeasure known maybe things will change and maybe he's big enough know that he can just not care and will still do whatever he wants.

aventurine

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2011, 01:44:41 AM »
Thanks, snowdragon.  You articulated it better than I could have. 

It's policy.  Policies at snowdragon's cultural events, policies at work (people with kids get preferential choice on days off, leaving early, etc).  And the single or childfree/childless who complains or insists on equal consideration is seen as unreasonable or an agitator.

In my experience, though, there's no middle ground on this issue.  It's one of those discrepancies that's invisible unless you live it (on either side, I gather).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2011, 01:48:45 AM by aventurine »




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Wonderflonium

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2011, 08:40:39 AM »
Thanks, snowdragon.  You articulated it better than I could have. 

It's policy.  Policies at snowdragon's cultural events, policies at work (people with kids get preferential choice on days off, leaving early, etc).  And the single or childfree/childless who complains or insists on equal consideration is seen as unreasonable or an agitator.

In my experience, though, there's no middle ground on this issue.  It's one of those discrepancies that's invisible unless you live it (on either side, I gather).

The bolded was HUGE at my last job. People with children got those benefits plus got to work at home more often, even if they hadn't been there as long, weren't doing as much work, weren't performing as well, etc. If you were childless and complained, you were branded a trouble maker and believe me, you paid the price.
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penelope2017

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2011, 11:57:46 AM »
I do understand what you guys are saying, I just think the ire should be directed at these policy makers. There are comments in here about rewarding poor decision making, not making kids behave, implicit entitled parents type of comments, when there is no indication that is what started this policy. Like I said, he might have little kids, and is sympathetic to them getting out faster. All kids have different bed times, however, and if I have mine out, it doesn't mean I'm irresponsible by the fact that they are there. If they misbehave, then it is on me.

He does not say he is letting kids go to the front of the line for bad behavior and me taking my four year old to a book signing at 7 - how is that poor decision making? It doesn't become so if Alton Brown has a move little kids to the front of the line policy.

Jobs that have inequal policies for employees should be addressed with HR. I just find that often, those who disagree with policies that favor families get annoyed at parents and children instead of, or in addition to, the policy maker, when they haven't made those decisions.

immadz

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Re: Alton Brown's manifesto to fans
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2011, 01:09:45 PM »
In cases of unequal work policies, I often wonder what would happen if all the single people quit would the office be forced to re-evaluate their policies. For a while at one work place, I felt I was being taken advantage of. I finally told my boss, if I work every night and weekend because I don't have a family, when will I get to start a family. Also, spouse and kids is a fairly narrow definition of family. I have a family too. I think that was a light bulb moment for him because things got a lot more normal after that.