Author Topic: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell  (Read 35549 times)

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Yvaine

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #90 on: October 05, 2011, 10:15:14 AM »
Spoder-

I think that it really depends on a reader's interpretation.  I read that line as an external eye-roll and it came across very judgmental in tone to me.  "Gee.  What a conclusion."  That "sounds" very sarcastic to me.

ETA:  What Peas said.

I actually read it more as snark on herself: "I keep thinking about this and I've concluded I've been doing something unethical! Drat it!" But I'm not in her head so I don't know what she was actually thinking.

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #91 on: October 05, 2011, 10:16:46 AM »
But, Yvaine, she never did what she was saying was gluttony and sinful. She was thoroughly on the side of "unethical and wrong" while people were discussing it.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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Spoder

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #92 on: October 05, 2011, 10:18:17 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.


Yvaine

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #93 on: October 05, 2011, 10:18:43 AM »
But, Yvaine, she never did what she was saying was gluttony and sinful. She was thoroughly on the side of "unethical and wrong" while people were discussing it.

Ah, OK. I see where you're coming from then.

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #94 on: October 05, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.

Judging something as rude is hugely different than judging it immoral and sinful.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

http://inanitiesofanidlemind.blogspot.com/

rashea

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #95 on: October 05, 2011, 10:32:06 AM »
I think some of it is that people are more likely to report a post by someone who isn't as popular. And Mods do seem to respond faster if they've gotten multiple reports of an issue (I'm thinking of one in particular that set a record). So, a new, or unpopular poster (either because they tend to be in the minority opinion or because they tend to express themselves in a way that rubs others the wrong way) may be reported many many times, where a popular and well known poster would only get one report for the same type of comment. The mods then react to that by going to where the reports are.

The mods have commented on why they delete posts instead of editing them. They can still see the deleted posts, but if they edit them, then they can't see the original post. This allows them to see a pattern.

I do agree that I wish the mods would post a note when they've taken action. It would help up the transparency and reveal more about what's going on.

I'll also say that if you've had something deleted or edited or something, I don't see the harm in asking. I had a topic moved and asked why. I got a response, and decided I was fine with the decision. If mods are refusing to answer why an action was taken when asked, that seems like a bigger problem. I've not experienced it, but if others have, I would want to know about it.

I'm sure I, and everyone else on here, has occasionally worded something badly and been offensive. I would hope that if people have problems with me, they would let me know directly, especially if it's a general style of posting. I know I'm on here in part to avoid offending people. I think in general, dealing with things in PM is ideal.
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LadyL

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #96 on: October 05, 2011, 10:35:06 AM »
Actually, LaciGirl said,

"I found this thread fascinating as well.  Thank you for starting it, jpcher.  Now I'm starting to think about the ethics of consuming food for reasons other than nutrition or moderate pleasure, and I'm pretty sure I'm believing that it's unethical. Gee.  What a conclusion.  Nothing like thinking my way through this and coming to the conclusion that gluttony -- one of the traditional "seven deadly sins" -- is wrong.   ."

The bolded is way beyond snarky and pretty much saying that anyone who would do this or agree with this is gluttonous and a "sinner"

I read that and assumed that she was having an internal eye-roll moment. At herself. I did not read an iota of snark in it towards anybody else, and I still don't. I'm not particularly trying to defend her, it's the honest truth.

An internal eye-roll moment that became an external eye-roll moment when she posted it and said that clearly this was an example of the sin of gluttony and was wrong.

So? (Meant non-snarkily  ;)). I'm just not seeing the problem. She, personally, has come to the conclusion that overconsumption of food, in general = gluttony = wrong. She's not calling any individual poster on this board a big sinful glutton!

Sure, maybe that's taking the discussion a little too far into abstract quasi-religious/philosophical territory for some people's liking. I can understand that. But why don't they just politely say so?

I think any tone that implies "Duh, how obvious" can easily be (mis?)interpreted as "Duh, it's so obvious, you'd have to be dumb not to agree." Eyeroll comments are, IMO, received best when the poster makes it clear they're rolling their eyes at themselves.

Spoder

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #97 on: October 05, 2011, 10:35:33 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.

Judging something as rude is hugely different than judging it immoral and sinful.

Peas, the OP actually asked for opinions on whether she was being wasteful, not just on the etiquette of the bagger. I'm sorry, but she opened that door - and she seemed perfectly fine with LG's responses.




PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #98 on: October 05, 2011, 10:36:44 AM »
The OP is not the only person posting in the thread and whose opinion matters.

Wasteful =/= sinful and gluttonous
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

http://inanitiesofanidlemind.blogspot.com/

Goodnight Kiwi

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #99 on: October 05, 2011, 10:39:22 AM »
The mods have commented on why they delete posts instead of editing them. They can still see the deleted posts, but if they edit them, then they can't see the original post. This allows them to see a pattern.


Would it perhaps be helpful then for the mods to have a "Deleted threads" thread in the Forum Announcements folder, and update it each time with a small announcement stating the name of the thread and, briefly, the reason for it being locked?

Eg:  "Knitting in shopping cart after leaving shoes on in house thread deleted due to Goodnight Kiwi's excessive cussing"


LadyL

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #100 on: October 05, 2011, 10:40:02 AM »
The OP is not the only person posting in the thread and whose opinion matters.

Wasteful =/= sinful and gluttonous

I have to agree. I think it's really important to separate morality from etiquette. There are polite things that are hurtful or in some cultures/religions immoral but they are still polite. Likewise there are things that may be moral by a certain set of standards (religions that encourage aggressive evangelizing, for example) but are rude per the rules of etiquette.

Yvaine

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #101 on: October 05, 2011, 10:42:14 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.

Judging something as rude is hugely different than judging it immoral and sinful.

I think part of the problem is that the issue of waste is an etiquette issue for some and an ethical issue for others. And I don't think it's inherently bad to get into ethics on this board; we do it all the time. But I do agree that we cross a line when we get into questions of "sin," which vary among belief systems and are beyond the scope of this forum.

Mikayla

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #102 on: October 05, 2011, 10:42:30 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.

I continue to agree!  This is reminding me of a thread where someone talked about letting their very underage kid on facebook, and the comments were very much critical of ethics.  But I don't recall anyone having a problem with it, and some of the comments were rather pointed.

It's all judgment.  If I had taken Laci's comment at the end as a personal attack on someone, rather than a statement about belief systems, I would have found it rude. 

Also, I totally agree with the comments on dogpiling, but I honestly think this is sometimes caused by my biggest board pet peeve - people not reading the thread.  I view these discussions as conversations, not a bulletin board, and when someone chimes in late with a comment no longer valid, I just shake mah head. 

KimberlyRose

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #103 on: October 05, 2011, 10:44:50 AM »
I think it boils down to one poster essentially calling a lot of people, other posters included, unethical because they "waste food" by her definition.

And what bothered me was that *that* was apparently acceptable.  That's part of what I think is bothering a lot of people.  It's like there are some people who are allowed to be judgmental and rude, and not only is that okay, if you call them out on it, you get smacked down by the mods.  There is no "this is okay, this isn't," because it depends on whether you're one of the favored posters or not.

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #104 on: October 05, 2011, 10:46:04 AM »
It's rude to bring your personal moral judgement of anyone's beliefs and actions to light - whether you are calling out an individual poster or a group of people who think differently than you.

It's not at all. How (and why) would we have internet discussion boards in the first place, if it is rude to mention your own personal moral judgement of anyone's belief or actions?! All opinions about human behaviour are, essentially, judgement.

How you express those opinions is what makes them rude or not rude.

Judging something as rude is hugely different than judging it immoral and sinful.

I think part of the problem is that the issue of waste is an etiquette issue for some and an ethical issue for others. And I don't think it's inherently bad to get into ethics on this board; we do it all the time. But I do agree that we cross a line when we get into questions of "sin," which vary among belief systems and are beyond the scope of this forum.

I can understand ethics, certainly! I was, in fact, part of the discussion on the ethics of waste (not a discussion about people who do waste, but why it is considered unethical in the first place - if that makes any sense).

As you say though, bringing in sin and all that kind of crosses a line. A big, double thick, DO NOT CROSS line.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

http://inanitiesofanidlemind.blogspot.com/