Author Topic: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell  (Read 34571 times)

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Giggity

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2011, 08:13:38 AM »
POD! Laciegirl called everyone "unethical", which is basically insulting everyone that thread but only Lady Pekoe gets smacked for calling Laciegirl on her comment? How is that in anyway ok?

AZG, that is a darn good question. Absent a snarly tone, when I read LadyPekoe's response, I got more "sigh, here we go again" than "ZOMG you ethical types can just take a hike because I hate you all."
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Yvaine

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2011, 08:14:54 AM »
I agree Peas; if there's a good back-and-forth, it's not dogpiling, especially if the posts are still adding new ideas to the discussion/debate. I tend to think of dogpiling as: a clear majority opinion starts to emerge against the OP's side, and numerous posters chime in with the same opinion and without adding any new analysis, especially if they also use snarky language ("I can't believe you would think it was OK to..." in the process.

POD, that's what I was trying to say, only you said it better.

And I think you can have a few "Yeah, sorry, I agree with PP that you were rude  :-\ " types of posts. It's just when it goes on for pages and people get melodramatic about how awful the OP's transgression was, even if it was something really minor.

Yvaine

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2011, 08:18:12 AM »
POD! Laciegirl called everyone "unethical", which is basically insulting everyone that thread but only Lady Pekoe gets smacked for calling Laciegirl on her comment? How is that in anyway ok?

AZG, that is a darn good question. Absent a snarly tone, when I read LadyPekoe's response, I got more "sigh, here we go again" than "ZOMG you ethical types can just take a hike because I hate you all."

IMO what was really out of line in that thread was that it started getting into religion, which I think began with the 7 deadlies post.

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2011, 08:21:11 AM »
I think people are looking to protect the OP's feelings, but frank discussion about the OP's behavior is not rude or dogpiling.

In the threads I'm thinking of, there was bluntness and debate, but no rudeness or harshness. Just discussion.
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DuBois

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2011, 08:26:42 AM »
I think people are looking to protect the OP's feelings, but frank discussion about the OP's behavior is not rude or dogpiling.

In the threads I'm thinking of, there was bluntness and debate, but no rudeness or harshness. Just discussion.

I think, though, that when the people who disagree with the OP are in a minority, then they too should look to themselves for why they feel so strongly. I have seen it said a lot that OP's shouldn't expect validation, but then neither should other posters. Just as the OP should not be coddled, they also shouldn't be expected to treat all views as equal, or necessarily agree with detractors. Sorry, I have deviated a bit from your point. I agree that there is a big difference between vigorous debate and rudeness.

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2011, 09:01:20 AM »
I think people are looking to protect the OP's feelings, but frank discussion about the OP's behavior is not rude or dogpiling.

In the threads I'm thinking of, there was bluntness and debate, but no rudeness or harshness. Just discussion.

I think, though, that when the people who disagree with the OP are in a minority, then they too should look to themselves for why they feel so strongly. I have seen it said a lot that OP's shouldn't expect validation, but then neither should other posters. Just as the OP should not be coddled, they also shouldn't be expected to treat all views as equal, or necessarily agree with detractors. Sorry, I have deviated a bit from your point. I agree that there is a big difference between vigorous debate and rudeness.

Posters are allowed to talk and debate and say their opinion even if they are in the minority. Their opinion and point of view is valuable in preventing this from becoming Brainwashed Etiquette Hell.

I've never seen a clear minority.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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Perfect Circle

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2011, 09:08:13 AM »
I really don't like the post/thread deletions when there seems to be no clear reason.

It's also my understanding that on this forum dogpiling means continuing with an argument after it has been addressed by the moderation team, not several people arguing for the same side.
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POF

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #67 on: October 05, 2011, 09:11:29 AM »
I have felt dogpiled on.... when after reading , clarifying and thinking about the comments and the discussions - I said ... you know you guys are absolutely right. I was wrong, I didn't see how bad my action was - I apologized and made it right.

And the harsh comments continue and continue. ( and when I say harsh .... I mean people basically calling me names such as you are patronizing , condescedning, rude. Instead of saying your conversation was ..... )

And I say one more time .... ummmm .... I know I was wrong let it lie. I've apologized.

AND SOME OF THE SAME POSTERS..... continue with YOU ARE A Specisl Snowflake... on and on.

I'm like OK OK OK .....


DuBois

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #68 on: October 05, 2011, 09:19:15 AM »
I have felt dogpiled on.... when after reading , clarifying and thinking about the comments and the discussions - I said ... you know you guys are absolutely right. I was wrong, I didn't see how bad my action was - I apologized and made it right.

And the harsh comments continue and continue. ( and when I say harsh .... I mean people basically calling me names such as you are patronizing , condescedning, rude. Instead of saying your conversation was ..... )

And I say one more time .... ummmm .... I know I was wrong let it lie. I've apologized.

AND SOME OF THE SAME POSTERS..... continue with YOU ARE A Specisl Snowflake... on and on.

I'm like OK OK OK .....

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, and I think it happens quite a bit. And it gets sorted out, or not, depending on who is who (IMO)

PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #69 on: October 05, 2011, 09:20:04 AM »
I am not saying that dogpiling doesn't happen. I'm saying that a lot of times it is mislabeled and that seems to be happening more often.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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DuBois

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #70 on: October 05, 2011, 09:21:27 AM »
I am not saying that dogpiling doesn't happen. I'm saying that a lot of times it is mislabeled and that seems to be happening more often.

That could just be an overreaction to it going unaddressed too often in the past, though.

Spoder

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2011, 09:26:16 AM »
I have definitely noticed that posters who call out rude behavior by another poster are far more likely to be mod-smacked than the people actually having committed the rude act. Any discussion of how the OP's behavior could have been lacking results in the same.

I hope LaciGirl was addressed as well because the active ignoring of her inappropriate post essentially calling any who disagreed with her gluttonous sinners in favor of mod-smacking a much less offensive post by someone tired of the holier-than-though, ignorant attitude often displayed towards her personally and professionally by the same poster smacks like mod approval and favoratism.

Okay, here's the thing: if these two posters have a history, they need to sort it out via PM or something. I like both of them, and I have no interest in taking 'sides', so I will be completely honest.

In this particular thread, I didn't see LaciGirl call anybody a 'gluttonous sinner'. I saw her critique the ethics of a particular behaviour (buying food with the intent of throwing it out). Which the OP actually *invited* criticism of.

Calling a behaviour unethical =/= calling a person who sometimes behaves that way unethical. Heck, I do stuff that even *I* think is unethical. I live in a 2.5 bedroom house by myself, while homeless families sleep in their cars in the same city. That's not a sustainable or ethically defensible situation, but I have my reasons. And I could totally discuss them with someone without it deteriorating into rudeness, because it's about one aspect of my behaviour, not about me as a person.

Lady Pekoe said: 'As somebody who works in the meat industry, I am really used to the LaciGirl's of the world feeling like they have every right to "explain" to me the all about the "ethics" of my industry'. The thread wasn't about the meat industry in particular, and nor were LG's comments. This post took an abstract discussion into personal territory. And the phrase 'the LaciGirls of this world' is dismissive and rude. It lumps LG into some big category of obnoxious people.

Nearly every time a thread goes downhill, it's because someone starts either making it personal, or taking things personally. That's my honest opinion, although not one that I expect will make me popular in this thread.


PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2011, 09:31:02 AM »
Actually, LaciGirl said,

"I found this thread fascinating as well.  Thank you for starting it, jpcher.  Now I'm starting to think about the ethics of consuming food for reasons other than nutrition or moderate pleasure, and I'm pretty sure I'm believing that it's unethical. Gee.  What a conclusion.  Nothing like thinking my way through this and coming to the conclusion that gluttony -- one of the traditional "seven deadly sins" -- is wrong.   ."

The bolded is way beyond snarky and pretty much saying that anyone who would do this or agree with this is gluttonous and a "sinner"
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2011, 09:31:31 AM »
I have felt dogpiled on.... when after reading , clarifying and thinking about the comments and the discussions - I said ... you know you guys are absolutely right. I was wrong, I didn't see how bad my action was - I apologized and made it right.

And the harsh comments continue and continue. ( and when I say harsh .... I mean people basically calling me names such as you are patronizing , condescedning, rude. Instead of saying your conversation was ..... )

And I say one more time .... ummmm .... I know I was wrong let it lie. I've apologized.

AND SOME OF THE SAME POSTERS..... continue with YOU ARE A Specisl Snowflake... on and on.

I'm like OK OK OK .....

Yeah, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, and I think it happens quite a bit. And it gets sorted out, or not, depending on who is who (IMO)

I don't see the bolded happening very often at all.  I'd say that type of dogpiling is a rarity here.

What I do see is people misunderstanding what dogpiling is and then accusing posters of doing it, when they aren't.

I also notice a trend where OP's tend to get angry and offended when they are not given the answers or validation they are looking for.  Then, they either say that people are not allowed to give that kind of advice here, or they flounce off in a huff because they think people are being "mean" when in reality, they are just offering their opinion, which was solicited by the OP when they posted their question/dilemma.
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PeasNCues

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Re: Forum Retaliatory Rudeness and the 7 Levels of Ehell
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2011, 09:32:11 AM »
I am not saying that dogpiling doesn't happen. I'm saying that a lot of times it is mislabeled and that seems to be happening more often.

That could just be an overreaction to it going unaddressed too often in the past, though.

Can you clarify? I'm not sure what you mean?
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

http://inanitiesofanidlemind.blogspot.com/