Chinese restaurant etiquette

[Bijou]

almond jello generally uses agar but some place may use jello due to lack of  availabilty. you can tell if agar is used as it is a fimer than jello

That's interesting.  I didn't know about the difference in firmness.  I had some agar but never did use it.

[leaf_eater]

I would have spoken to the boyfriend before the ordering began and said something solicitous like "I'm so happy that that you are here, I know you'll be able to make sure I can get food I can eat" and then list my dietary needs.

I had an awful experience with my parents one time years ago at a Chinese Buffet restaurant. I'm vegan and the only things I could eat out of dozens of dishes were spicy green beans, some watery, over cooked bok choy that seemed to have no seasoning at all and very greasy vegetable lo mein noodles. The green beans were the only thing I found edible and they were too spicy to make a meal out of them. My father complained over and over that it wasn't worth the cost of the buffet because I wasn't eating enough. I finally got up, laid down the cost of my meal and walked out. I live out of state and only see my family once a year so I thought my relationship with my parents was damaged but actually, my father and mother apologized profusely (I think this was the change from them viewing me as a child they could control to an adult with my own valid preferences and needs) . Now my father calls or goes in ahead to make sure the place he chooses is suitable for me!

[freakyfemme]

I would have spoken to the boyfriend before the ordering began and said something solicitous like "I'm so happy that that you are here, I know you'll be able to make sure I can get food I can eat" and then list my dietary needs.

I had an awful experience with my parents one time years ago at a Chinese Buffet restaurant. I'm vegan and the only things I could eat out of dozens of dishes were spicy green beans, some watery, over cooked bok choy that seemed to have no seasoning at all and very greasy vegetable lo mein noodles. The green beans were the only thing I found edible and they were too spicy to make a meal out of them. My father complained over and over that it wasn't worth the cost of the buffet because I wasn't eating enough. I finally got up, laid down the cost of my meal and walked out. I live out of state and only see my family once a year so I thought my relationship with my parents was damaged but actually, my father and mother apologized profusely (I think this was the change from them viewing me as a child they could control to an adult with my own valid preferences and needs) . Now my father calls or goes in ahead to make sure the place he chooses is suitable for me!

Well, actually, the Chinese restaurants UBF (Uncle's Boyfriend) will go to aren't even buffets, they're all the sit-down type, so I have even *less* choice.  Basically, UBF extends the invitation, my parents accept for the whole family (and no, I can't decline for myself, it's apparently mandatory), UBF chooses the restaurant, then he orders the food for all of us, since the menus are written mostly in Chinese.  Since I didn't have much choice, I figured I didn't have to eat everything, but apparently, I was wrong, because of the whole "wasting food is a sin" thing.  I don't want to go to any more of these things, not just because they're uncomfortable (especially that one--a total of seven hours in downtown Toronto during "Boxing Week," with absolutely no down time at all, AND having to eat strange food with people I'm not close with), but also because I just don't want to be complicit in having a fake, superficial, once-a-year relationship with UBF, especially when the people perpetuating that fake relationship are the ones who keep bad-mouthing him in his absence.  I can't really say this out loud to my parents, but I think it's a bit hypocritical the way they kept making "chink" jokes about UBF on the way there, and THEN my mom reprimanded me later for not letting him hug me.  I just don't get it, it's fine to call UBF's preferred food "chinky," but it's not fine if I don't want him hugging me?

[ZipTheWonder]

Once again,  your mom is making up the rules of etiquette as she goes along.  I think you should do the "fake" thing you describe right back, as blandly and flatly as possible.  "Uh-huh, you're right."  "Sure, no problem."  "I'll remember that next time."  Because no amount of defending your position or explaining yourself is going to do.  Her standards for you are like shifting sand, and you can't possibly meet them because they are never fixed.

[freakyfemme]

Once again,  your mom is making up the rules of etiquette as she goes along.  I think you should do the "fake" thing you describe right back, as blandly and flatly as possible.  "Uh-huh, you're right."  "Sure, no problem."  "I'll remember that next time."  Because no amount of defending your position or explaining yourself is going to do.  Her standards for you are like shifting sand, and you can't possibly meet them because they are never fixed.

I don't do "fake" very well.  Next time, I think I'll just say flat-out that I'm not going.

[audhs]

  Next time, I think I'll just say flat-out that I'm not going.

I think this is the best answer to your dilema.    It sounds like your mother is going to complain and criticize no matter what you do so you might as well avoid the half of the problem that you can control.

[thebadchemist]

5) Don't feel bad about the red bean soup. I can't stand the stuff and I grew up with it. Heck, my mom would have made me feel guilty if I DIDN'T give that to her, because she always welcomes a good red bean soup. In the future, if you have a choice for dessert, I highly recommend almond jello. It's fantastic and completely vegetarian-friendly.

Do most recipes for almond jello use agar-agar or one of the vegetarian alternatives to gelatin?  The recipe I saw on line use this gelatin, which is an animal product, so I would want to ask what they use to set the jello. 
I agree.  Almond jello is fantastic!

My mom uses a really popular mix and I believe most restaurants use mixes, too. Not necessarily the one my mom favors, of course, but the one she uses contains agar agar. Most of the mixes I've seen use agar agar, but I'd forgotten that gelatin is an animal product. That's one thing to be followed up on. I know that almond jello with agar agar is firm to the point where it almost feels like it has a bit of a skin. Soft in the middle, but a little resistance to the initial bite. Jello rarely feels like that unless you really minimize the amount of water used to make it.

FYI: If you ever make the stuff on your own, my mom likes to soften and sweeten the agar agar mix with a little evaporated milk. Does wonders for the flavor and texture.

Freakyfemme, I think bowing out is a good idea. Truth is, as much of a difficult situation that you are in, I feel not only for you, but for UBF, too. Again, just my opinion, but if I were in his shoes and I ever found out about that my BF's family felt that way about me, I'd reevaluate my relationship with BF. This isn't only about the racism, but more along my own intense dislike of people who do the whole two-faced bit. If you don't like me, my background, my life, etc. then don't even bother talking to me. My whole family does the two-faced thing a lot, and well, I don't talk to a lot of them.

[ZipTheWonder]

Next time, I think I'll just say flat-out that I'm not going.

If that's an option, take it!    But, unfortunately it only solves one very specific and rare situation and doesn't give you much of an overall strategy in dealing with your mother's treatment of you (and others.) 

So, I think you need to find a way to convey to her that you have really totally lost interest (blah-boring-nada-whatever) in her constant rants about you and that you have no emotional investment in her outbursts or their content.  You simply mutter some sort of response that basically acknowledges that she is speaking to you.  The best way to do that would be to genuinely lose interest and to stop investing.  The second-best way would be to try to respond as though you have lost interest and have stopped investing.  Basically, you going for producing sound in reponse to the fact that she produced some sound.

[Sophia]

I am an American who has spent a lot of time in Taiwan.  Their 'family style' manners are the same as American family-style which I am guessing is the same as Canadian family-style.  The rules seem to be:

1) Everyone gets at least one short at every dish.
2) If it is 'hosted', try a little of each dish unless there is a reason.  In Taiwan, I usually told the people ordering, "I will not eat cucumbers, scallops, or something uncooked which was once living." 
3)  Taking 'more than your share', would only apply, if at all, to the most desirable dish.  Even then, it would be OK after everyone had two chances. 

Even if the chinese family style rules were different, it wouldn't matter.  Unless it is something obvious, like sitting on a cushion on the floor/Japanese, or eating with your hands/Ethiopian, the rules are the rules were you live. 

Since he insists on authentic chinese, I assume he has the traditional confusion about vegetarianism.    In Taiwain, I have witnessed a version of this exchange several times,

Veg: I can't have the X beef dish because I am a vegetarian.  I don't eat anything that was once alive.

Chi:  You don't eat vegetables?

Veg:  I eat vegetables, not animals. 

Chi: (Confusing veg. with Hindu)  Well, we'll order the X dish in Pork then.

Veg:  I can't eat pork, either.

Chi:  Ok, well then Chicken.

Veg:  Nothing that was alive. 

Chi:  Shrimp, then?   Even kids eat shrimp.

Veg:  No, I don't eat Shrimp.

Chi:  Ok, Fish.  Everyone eats fish.

Veg:  Not me. 


I think in this case, the real problem was your mother.  She was going to give you grief.  Period. 

[JoyinVirginia]

Just my opinion:
- Whenever I have been at group dinners with family-style dining, whether at Chinese or other restaurants, once eve.ryone has a chance at a dish then it is fair game for diners to take more.
- If you don't want to eat any of a dish, you should not be forced to eat it, or singled out because you don't have any of that dish. I assume adults can decide what they want to eat without my help.
- Your mother will be doing the exact same things when she is 80. Believe me. My mother is 86, I have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. She is not going to change, so work on changing your responses to her. Or move far, far away. Or just keep expecting her to magically change her behavior when she has zero motivation to do so, that can work too!
Joy in Virginia (who gave up expecting my mother to change when I was 40 and she was 76! Took me that long to accept reality.) 

[freakyfemme]

Just my opinion:
- Whenever I have been at group dinners with family-style dining, whether at Chinese or other restaurants, once eve.ryone has a chance at a dish then it is fair game for diners to take more.
- If you don't want to eat any of a dish, you should not be forced to eat it, or singled out because you don't have any of that dish. I assume adults can decide what they want to eat without my help.
- Your mother will be doing the exact same things when she is 80. Believe me. My mother is 86, I have been there, done that, got the t-shirt. She is not going to change, so work on changing your responses to her. Or move far, far away. Or just keep expecting her to magically change her behavior when she has zero motivation to do so, that can work too!
Joy in Virginia (who gave up expecting my mother to change when I was 40 and she was 76! Took me that long to accept reality.) 

Well, I admit part of it was kind of my fault....I did some things that were, by all accounts, rude.  For example:

-Moving one seat to the right so I could sit with my dad and my brother, when I ended up being seated between UBF's mother and a pile of coats.

-Making a bit of a face when I tried the bean soup, because I was expecting to to be spicy, or savoury, or even bland, but not SWEET.

-Not making as much conversation as I probably should have, because the volume level in the restaurant pretty much precluded that, without shouting.

-Refusing to let UBF hug me, and pulling away when he tried.

Still......the whole evening (okay, afternoon AND evening) made me really uncomfortable, and I'm not going to participate in another thing like that, at least not unless we're going to be stopping off at someone's house for some down time of just talking and hanging out (as opposed to driving there, driving to one side of town to exchange my brother's hard drive, driving to the OTHER side of town, and then cooling our heels in a mall full of pushy Torontonians with no concept of personal space until it was time for our reservation), and then going to a restaurant that isn't horribly crowded, and has decent vegetarian food.  That's what we did last time (we didn't get Chinese food either, yay!!!), but then UBF wasn't there.  Also, I probably should have brought my Discman to listen to in the car, so I wouldn't have had to put up with the barrage of "UBF eats chink food," and "University of Toronto is better than Bishop's!!!" all the way there, and "Freaky is SO rude!!!" all the way back.

[NOVA Lady]

I'm glad you're not planning on repeating that, "fun"

Also, how in the heck are you rude for not letting someone touch you? No touches you without your permission! A hug isn't mandatory. I would be super creeped out by someone who wanted to hug me even though I had expressed not wanting to be hugged. We all have different needs for personal space!

[freakyfemme]

I'm glad you're not planning on repeating that, "fun"

Also, how in the heck are you rude for not letting someone touch you? No touches you without your permission! A hug isn't mandatory. I would be super creeped out by someone who wanted to hug me even though I had expressed not wanting to be hugged. We all have different needs for personal space!

Well, my mom said it was rude, because according to her, UBF is my honourary uncle......but I don't even let immediate family members hug me, usually just my friends, except for special cases, like in second year, when Queensoprano and Kingpiano both hugged me after I gave them the "welcome-to-the world" poem I'd written, framed, and had everyone sign for Wonderkid just before he was born, and then last year, when my clarinet teacher hugged me after my recital.  Otherwise, I'm a bit standoffish that way.......but I probably should have handled it better with UBF, like maybe by bending over and pretending to re-fasten my shoe or something.

[NotCinderell]

Your mother is dead wrong about wasting food being a sin in Chinese culture.  In fact, conspicuous consumption and waste is typically the way that wealthy Chinese entertain, and eating all your food is an implication that you didn't get enough.  Leaving a little rice on your plate is considered polite.

[freakyfemme]

Your mother is dead wrong about wasting food being a sin in Chinese culture.  In fact, conspicuous consumption and waste is typically the way that wealthy Chinese entertain, and eating all your food is an implication that you didn't get enough.  Leaving a little rice on your plate is considered polite.

Yeah, that's what I thought too....I figured it'd be okay if I didn't eat everything, because a) a lot of it was "strange" food that I wasn't used to, and had very little say in ordering, b) I was morbidly obese for WAY too long--I'm sure as heck not going to eat beyond the point of fullness just to be "polite," and c) I honestly thought that it was the other way around--cleaning your plate is considered "rude" in Chinese culture, and leaving a little bit behind implied that the hosts provided an ample spread.  But either way, I ate everything I served myself, I just only took one piece of tofu, and only ate one bite of the bean soup that was served to me (I didn't choose that), because it was disgusting.....it looked a bit sketchy too, but I took a bite anyway.