Author Topic: Young party crashers  (Read 3492 times)

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Piratelvr1121

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Young party crashers
« on: October 12, 2011, 09:58:34 AM »
This happened this past spring when we had a birthday party for my older son.  It was a sleepover that, while a few friends had told Pirateboy1 they'd be coming, only one of the invited children showed up.

But there was another kid that is in the same grade as Pirateboy2 (2nd at the time, now 3rd) that kept trying to crash the party.  Now this is a kid that doesn't even treat the boys very well, is horribly rude to them on nearly a daily basis and could even be called a bully which is why he was not invited.   He kept coming onto the porch where the boys were tie-dying shirts, trying to be included and we kept sending him home.  Then he tried to angle to be invited by saying "Oh I won't eat anything!" and "But I'm their friend!" Yeah and I'm Attila the Hun.

I finally said "D, this is a birthday party and you were not invited so you need to go home and do not return."  Yet he came back again.   ::) Since we were inside and the door was closed, we just ignored the knocking at the door and eventually he gave up. 

Any ideas as to how to handle this sort of thing in the future (And I'll admit what I said to him was probably very rude)?  I half expect this kid to do it again if he sees a party is going on because he's always "friends" when he wants to be included in something and every other time he treats them like dirt.  I'd say something to the parents if I thought it would do any good but we've spoken to their parents about other issues and nothing's changed.

Actually, the year before at Pirateboy1's bday party this kid was invited because at the time the boys did like him and wanted him there.  The kid asked if he could bring a plate of food home for his mom.   ???  Who does that?
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Roe

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 10:11:26 AM »
"D, I'm sorry you were not invited.  If you want to be included next time, you need to be nicer to Pirateboy in the future." 

Also, as to who takes plates home...almost everyone I know!  Ugh!  It's such a pet peeve of mine. Now, with family, I don't mind so much but when friends or friends of friends start taking plates home for other people, drives me nuts!  And K'nnihave was famous for taking plates home "for later" even when I still had guests enjoying the food. 

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 10:18:59 AM »
I wouldn't even mind if it was a guest asking if they could take some food home for them to eat later, but this boy said his mom asked him to bring home food for her.  I'd never heard of anyone doing that before.   And since this boy, up till then, had always been trying to angle invitations to dinner, I wondered if maybe there wasn't enough at home to eat so I let him take the plate home. 

But when he started being a bully, he wasn't even allowed in the house, let alone allowed to have the chance to angle invitations to dinner.
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Bijou

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 10:47:15 AM »
This happened this past spring when we had a birthday party for my older son.  It was a sleepover that, while a few friends had told Pirateboy1 they'd be coming, only one of the invited children showed up.

But there was another kid that is in the same grade as Pirateboy2 (2nd at the time, now 3rd) that kept trying to crash the party.  Now this is a kid that doesn't even treat the boys very well, is horribly rude to them on nearly a daily basis and could even be called a bully which is why he was not invited.   He kept coming onto the porch where the boys were tie-dying shirts, trying to be included and we kept sending him home.  Then he tried to angle to be invited by saying "Oh I won't eat anything!" and "But I'm their friend!" Yeah and I'm Attila the Hun.

I finally said "D, this is a birthday party and you were not invited so you need to go home and do not return."  Yet he came back again.   ::) Since we were inside and the door was closed, we just ignored the knocking at the door and eventually he gave up. 

Any ideas as to how to handle this sort of thing in the future (And I'll admit what I said to him was probably very rude)?  I half expect this kid to do it again if he sees a party is going on because he's always "friends" when he wants to be included in something and every other time he treats them like dirt.  I'd say something to the parents if I thought it would do any good but we've spoken to their parents about other issues and nothing's changed.

Actually, the year before at Pirateboy1's bday party this kid was invited because at the time the boys did like him and wanted him there.  The kid asked if he could bring a plate of food home for his mom.   ???  Who does that?
Aren't you talking about an 8 year old?  I would have called his parents to pick him up, no matter how futile it may have seemed. 
In your OP you didn't say his mother asked him to bring home some food.  You said he asked if he could being home a plate and then remarked, "Who does that?', as though this were a grown person you were talking about.    Well, a six year old first grader (as he appears to have been at the time) might do that, not knowing any better...or might if their mother told them to ask. 
I think you needed to involve the parents.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 10:51:20 AM by Bijou »
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Piratelvr1121

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2011, 11:21:49 AM »
Well by "Who does that?" I meant "Who asks their kid to bring home food from a birthday party for them?"

We don't have the family's phone number, but if I'd been thinking straight I might have asked DH to take the boy home and talk to the parents while I stayed with the other kids. Might have been futile but at least worth a try.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

rose red

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2011, 01:18:36 PM »
I was going to suggest your husband or another adult (who wouldn't mind doing you this favor) to take him home every single time he shows up to the party.

Bijou

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2011, 02:18:41 PM »
Well by "Who does that?" I meant "Who asks their kid to bring home food from a birthday party for them?"

We don't have the family's phone number, but if I'd been thinking straight I might have asked DH to take the boy home and talk to the parents while I stayed with the other kids. Might have been futile but at least worth a try.
I see.  Who asked for the food plate just wasn't clear to me.  Yes, what parent would put their little kid in that situation.  Maybe the family was needing food, but it still is an odd request if you don't realize that. 
I think having your DH take the child home would be a good idea.
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Balletmom

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2011, 10:35:40 PM »
Every time I've ever said "who does that" regarding a child, I've come to realize that asking that is in and of itself an answer.

Who keeps a child out of school for three weeks at the beginning of the school because of a pending family divorce, and then brings the child on the day the school closes down for a hurricane?

Says it all.

This poor child is getting zero social clues from a parent. All you can do is what I did with our neighbor child. No, you can't open our fridge and help yourself. No, you can't kick your volleyball into our Christmas lights. No, you can't chase our elderly cat through the bushes.

You can't mitigate the bad parenting, but you can say no firmly, kindly, and repeatedly.

And another time, when it's not a party, and Neighbor Child is near by, it's a good time to bring up in a general way "If you do this and this, you won't get invited to parties."

And if he asks to bring food home, it would be good to ask why--does someone need the food? Or do they just feel entitled to it?


Piratelvr1121

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2011, 11:01:01 PM »
Every time I've ever said "who does that" regarding a child, I've come to realize that asking that is in and of itself an answer.

Who keeps a child out of school for three weeks at the beginning of the school because of a pending family divorce, and then brings the child on the day the school closes down for a hurricane?

Says it all.

This poor child is getting zero social clues from a parent. All you can do is what I did with our neighbor child. No, you can't open our fridge and help yourself. No, you can't kick your volleyball into our Christmas lights. No, you can't chase our elderly cat through the bushes.

You can't mitigate the bad parenting, but you can say no firmly, kindly, and repeatedly.

And another time, when it's not a party, and Neighbor Child is near by, it's a good time to bring up in a general way "If you do this and this, you won't get invited to parties."

And if he asks to bring food home, it would be good to ask why--does someone need the food? Or do they just feel entitled to it?

Sadly I think there are a few kids in this neighborhood who fall into that category, Balletmom.  There was one girl, who's moved away who was over at our house all the time, and there were some days she'd come down saying "My mom told me I should visit you 'cause you only have boys and you might like some girl time..." I had to teach her that you don't just walk into other people's homes, you need to knock on the door first. No you can't break the house rules and expect to get away with it, no you can't walk away with someone else's nail polish.  She actually did start behaving a little and I think she kept coming back because we set limits. 

I think this boy is one of those too but since he has become a bully in the last year or so, I won't have him around for play and definitely not for parties.  When I've told him in the past "You can't beat them up and then call yourself their friend, D" he promises to be nice (which I don't fall for) and then the next day the boys come home saying "D tried to beat us up...again!"
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Goog

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2011, 12:53:58 AM »
I think this boy is one of those too but since he has become a bully in the last year or so, I won't have him around for play and definitely not for parties.  When I've told him in the past "You can't beat them up and then call yourself their friend, D" he promises to be nice (which I don't fall for) and then the next day the boys come home saying "D tried to beat us up...again!"

WOW...I think I'd start being very tersely blunt with this child.  "D, you lied to me when you promised to be nice to (boys).  You said you would be nice and instead you did XYZ, and that's not nice.  You are not allowed to come over.  I don't want to see you on our property, for any reason.  Do you understand?"

And yes, like PPs said, I'd start involving the parents.  "Because of incidents of D's repeated aggression toward our children, we had to make a rule that he's not allowed on our property anymore.  Please make sure he understands this and stays away."  Of course they'll probably be upset, but hey, it's their kid and they had the best opportunity to prevent this situation before it got to this point.  For whatever reason, their fault or not, it didn't work and the kid is still not behaving appropriately.  And there are consequences for that.

You could always give him a time limit, like a month (which seems like forever to a kid) and offer to reevaluate if he has been 'good' and well-behaved toward your boys during that time. 

But really, he NEEDS to be held accountable.  And no, if he can't be nice to someone on a day to day basis, then he doesn't get invited to the party that person has.  It's a simple lesson to be learned, but it's an important one.  I remember in 5th grade I had a 'theme' party with a few girls.  This was just when parties were starting to get away from a cake at home and 'pin the tail on the donkey' (yes, I'm old)  ;) .  So my party, when word got out, sounded cool.  And I had the popular girls, who thought nothing of snubbing me on a daily basis, asking me if they were invited to my party.  I remember turning around at my desk when someone asked me "Laura wants to know if she's invited to your party."  I got a puzzled look on my face and said simply, "No" and turned back around to face the front of the room.  It was a moment that I still remember well, because I didn't cave to the pressure.  I felt empowered, if only for a short time.  And do you know what?  Laura had just had a party, and no, I wasn't invited to hers, but yeah, she expected to be invited to mine, even when she could barely give me the time of day.  Uh...no.

baglady

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2011, 01:28:25 AM »
Without more info, I wouldn't cast him into e-hell for asking for a plate of food for his mom. OP says this happened at last year's party, which he'd actually been invited to because he and the other boys were getting along. He may have genuinely wanted to share some of the goodies with Mom and didn't realize that the request could come off as rude.

I'm not condoning his more recent behavior, for which there should definitely be consequences. But I can't help but wonder if something happened in his life that has brought out the bully in him.
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SuperMartianRobotGirl

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2011, 08:19:01 AM »
I wouldn't make assumptions about him asking for food. It could be they'd recently been to a family get-together and someone had said, "Oh, let's put a plate together for your mom!" and he got into that and thought it was the norm.  I wouldn't read into that at all.

As to him party crashing, I think you did the best you can short of calling a parent, if that would have helped.  You were explicit with him that he wasn't invited and wouldn't be at the party.

Piratelvr1121

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2011, 11:43:39 AM »
Without more info, I wouldn't cast him into e-hell for asking for a plate of food for his mom. OP says this happened at last year's party, which he'd actually been invited to because he and the other boys were getting along. He may have genuinely wanted to share some of the goodies with Mom and didn't realize that the request could come off as rude.

I'm not condoning his more recent behavior, for which there should definitely be consequences. But I can't help but wonder if something happened in his life that has brought out the bully in him.


I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.  When we first met him he seemed like a sweet, shy kid and recently the bully's come out in him so either it's the friends he keeps (other neighborhood bullies) or someone's being a bully to him at home.
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata

Balletmom

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 09:49:57 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.  When we first met him he seemed like a sweet, shy kid and recently the bully's come out in him so either it's the friends he keeps (other neighborhood bullies) or someone's being a bully to him at home.

One of the biggest bullies in my class one year was the student who was geeky and didn't fit in, and was acutely aware that other children were smarter and more "cool" than he was. You would have thought he was the victim, but he was the instigator. His parents were also getting a divorce.

Bullies fall into several categories. One is, the child is truly a bully, who has been taught that mean equals survival. This is a kid who may feel insecure, but doesn't respond at all to empathy speeches . This is a hard core case that responds only to Bigger Authority stepping in.

Second case, is Insecure Kid just acting out. This kid wants to make others come to his/her level. This kid feels some empathy, but is really kind of clueless (hasn't been taught social clues, so tends to get left out or acts inappropriately) and is using the wrong methods to fit in.

Third case, is just ordinary "mean girl" kind of behavior.  This is just the usual playground cliques and normal child bad behavior.

I would never accuse a child of lying, because it simply doesn't work well with them. If they're denying something they did, I use the
"You need to take responsibility for what you did" rather than head off into the emotional words of lying, etc.

The "How's that working for you" is a really powerful line with children, because it asks them to look at how their choices and responses are actually working.

Piratelvr, my suggestions would be to keep to keep it short and simple verbally with this kid.

"You tried to beat them up yesterday, They don't want to play with you today. When you threaten to hit people, they don't want be around you."

"I can see by your face you feel sad about that (labeling his emotions for him, since he's probably had very little help with this) and I can tell you want to do better. So tomorrow, if you are nice to them, we can see about you playing here."

I sadly, and seriously, think the parents will be of little help here. Best to concentrate all energy and efforts on teaching this little boy some basic understandings of relationships.


Piratelvr1121

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Re: Young party crashers
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 09:58:00 PM »
I think this boy falls into the "Doesn't know any better/poor social instruction at home" category.  Funny thing is that for the most part he seems like he's still kind of shy and quiet, at least around adults, and he's rather soft spoken. 

I'll have to keep those tactics in mind, Balletmom, and I like the "How's that working for you?" reply.  I get the feeling some of the kids around here don't really have parents who are bothering to teach them how to treat others so these kids are kinda trying to figure out on their own. 
Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.  You have a right to be here. Be cheerful, strive to be happy. -Desiderata