Author Topic: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun  (Read 40394 times)

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LadyPekoe

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I will tell you what my problem is--and this is based on EhellDame's post in a locked thread.

EHDame is busy.  The mods are busy.  That all makes perfect sense to me.  They only really have time to read what people complain about.  That also make amazing sense.  EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I'm going to preface this with I love EH.  I think it's been truly beneficial for me as a person.

I rarely report posts because they tend not to bother me.  I either debate or leave, I feel no need to complain most of the time.  I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:
1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

or

2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it".  I'm going to be proactive and help!
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DuBois

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 04:52:57 PM »


I'll join you. I'd like to add that I too have reported a couple of people who get away with a lot, to no avail. These accusations of favoritism sure don't come out of thin air.

Larrabee

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2011, 04:53:25 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

LadyPekoe

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2011, 05:01:08 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.
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LadyL

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2011, 05:02:47 PM »
EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:
1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

or

2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it".  I'm going to be proactive and help!

Wait, so you are going to guess who the frequent reporters are and report them based on that guessing? I'm confused. I report posts pretty regularly (probably 3 a week on average) and often they're in threads I haven't even participated in. I have no motive other than I feel the mods should know about a poster who is crossing a line with tone or content. Often I will post and say "hey, this will get locked if this legal/medical discussion continues" before reporting, then people don't listen and I report them, and the mods lock the thread. There may be people who use reporting to skew the mods image of them but I can't imagine paying close enough attention to people's posting habits to infer that, and I'm still not clear how one actually would.

Also, if the mods read the post that was reported it should be clear if there is snarky or inappropriate content, or if it's just malicious reporting based on disagreement.

ETA: It looks like the mods are developing a policy to deal with this very issue:

With the upgrade to the forum came some pretty sophisticated moderation tools.  We've been experimenting with one for a few months now and a few people have been the test subjects.  I think we're about ready to roll it out.   It's a warning system that assigns a value per warning and then keeps track of how many warnings have been given.   Example:  You might get warned 4 times for snarky behavior.  When the poster reaches the limit of warnings pre-determined to trigger banning or gag, the software automatically bans or gags.   It automates the process of remembering who got warned and who needs to be whereas previously we had to rely on memory  (Did someone warn that member?  How many times?  can't remember....).   It removes a lot of subjectivity inherent to moderation by humans but I can predict that some people will not like the mechanical "feel" of this new feature.   But it should reassure people that even if someone is being snarky, they cannot be snarky indefinitely and the warnings give some benefit of the doubt that the person was simply having a bad day but has been alerted to the fact that they cannot act this way regardless of how bad their day was.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:04:24 PM by LadyL »

Larrabee

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 05:09:09 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 05:11:46 PM »
I'm with LadyPekoe. 

I tend to be very lenient when it comes to reporting things (although I have sent reports to  mods), and I think I've been remiss.  There are some posters I see that are constantly behaving in a snarky way and many I think who abuse this forum to an extent.  From now on, I'm going to report those posts.   It sounds like the mods could use a heads up and I think it will make this forum a better place if the habitual offenders were properly warned/gagged/banned.
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Shores

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 05:13:12 PM »
I have no idea who's reporting and why unless I'm told that a report did or will happen. And to be honest, I don't care who is reporting; I assume that if I need to know, I will (either by contact or thread deletion).

That being said, as LadyPekoe stated, the mods have said a number of times that the problems and skewed moderation that people have been discussing has arisen because people aren't reporting. So the solution seems to be, as LadyPekoe stated, that the only way to correct the skew is that those who DO report, report less OR those who tend to let things go and DON'T report, report more. Perhaps if those that tend to be more easy-going, report the posts, the instigators will be reprimanded instead of those that are just provoked by them. I think some long-time members don't get reported as often as they should and maybe this will be a wake-up call. If something bothers you or you think it's mean/out of bounds/inappropriate or just doesn't contribute to the thread, report it. And let's see if the skew gets back on track.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?
It HAS been stated by a mod that they were so busy (understandably, real life comes first) at least once that they only looked at and responded to the one reported post and did not read further back to see what had inspired it and whether anyone else in that thread was also in need of reprimanding. That makes it clear that every single post needs to be posted to ensure that the mods are able to see all angles of a thread.
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Bibliophile

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 05:14:25 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!

Actually, from Ehelldame's post, they seem to prefer to get the mod report rather than a poster calling out in the thread http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580

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Larrabee

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 05:14:44 PM »
So we should all be reporting more or less?  The complaint seemed to be about posters who report constantly being 'teacher's pets', is it a case of if you can't beat 'em join 'em?

Larrabee

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 05:15:35 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Nope!  Because I feel it's the patients running the asylum.  I truly believe that some people don't get flagged because they tend to be snarky to people who just "let it go".  Everybody needs to dial it down or everybody needs to dial it up. 

And, frankly, sometimes it is "tattling".  Let's say you and I are arguing about whether cats should be let out at night.  It's not nasty, maybe a little heated because we disagree, but not mean at all.  If you report me because I disagree with you, I feel you would be tattling.  Now if I called you names for letting our your cats?  Sure, that's not tattling. 

There is a difference between tattling and reporting, we are all taught it when we are children.

But it seems like you're assuming that the mods are letting users run the forum, I don't think they delete or ban or lock based just on the fact that a report was made, surely they read first?

Also, I'm wiling to bet that the moderators who are receiving constant 'tattle' reports are as annoyed by it as you are, perhaps even more so!

Actually, from Ehelldame's post, they seem to prefer to get the mod report rather than a poster calling out in the thread http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=105067.msg2536580#msg2536580

I guess there are mixed messages coming out then, because I know I've seen posts in the past where mods have stated that they appreciate it when the forum does a little 'self moderating'.

bobsyouruncle

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 05:16:12 PM »
I'm with LadyPekoe. 

I tend to be very lenient when it comes to reporting things (although I have sent reports to  mods), and I think I've been remiss.  There are some posters I see that are constantly behaving in a snarky way and many I think who abuse this forum to an extent.  From now on, I'm going to report those posts.   It sounds like the mods could use a heads up and I think it will make this forum a better place if the habitual offenders were properly warned/gagged/banned.

I agree too.  I've reported a couple of posters over and over again (for different threads and different comments) without anything (seemingly) being done - if people who would normally "let it go" and NOT report those posts began doing so the Mods would have a more accurate view of the problem.

Schmoopie3928

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 05:26:58 PM »
Not a bad idea lulu. I only started reporting in the last few months. I think I was under the "I'm  sure someone else already did it" mentality. I noticed sometimes that didn't work so now when I see something, I report it.

Germane Jackson

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 05:33:36 PM »
I also like your idea Lulu!

I also didn't start reporting threads until recently because I had the same "somebody else probably reported it" mentality.

Lynn2000

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 05:35:08 PM »
I've been thinking about this very topic due to all the recent threads and I noticed something about my own behavior. I'm reading through a thread and I come upon a reply that I think is a little out of line--not really worthy of being reported, IMO, but it makes me frown a little. Naturally I glance over to see who wrote it. If it's someone with a low post count, <300 or definitely <100, I usually expect to see another poster calling them out about it in another couple of posts (and this often happens). However, if it's someone with a 5-digit post count, I personally usually think, "Oh, that's just how So-and-so is, kind of snippy or blunt," and I personally go on through the thread without really thinking anymore about it. And I almost never see a 5-digit poster get called out in the thread for being too snarky or whatever. (Of course, I don't know about anything that might happen behind the scenes.)

Since I noticed this about my own behavior, I wonder if this happens to other people as well. I'm not asking for a show of hands or anything!  ;D But one could call this an instance of "favoritism" towards long-time or heavy posters that I've been engaging in without consciously realizing it for a while. I am going to watch this in myself and try not to let a user's post count influence me so much.
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