Author Topic: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun  (Read 40430 times)

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hobish

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 06:01:30 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Amen.

It sounds really like you've got some kind of personal problem with these so-called teacher's pets  :( Even the terminology is sneaky and childish. Everyone has an option to report or not report and always has. I really do not see the point of this "call to arms" against some unidentified "teacher's pets" other than to stir up trouble.  :-\ Although, that said, i guess i could have just reported this whole thread if that is how i feel about it...

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Wordgeek

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 06:02:57 PM »
This is starting to be more positive, and I appreciate that.

The members forget how powerful you are.  Don't like the content?  Post what you do like!  Want to see more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions?  Post more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions.  Think someone is being inappropriate and detrimental to the discussion or the forum?  Take the wind out of their sails by not giving them fodder to work with. 

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Sootikin

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 06:10:13 PM »
I'm with Lady PeKoe, I post infrequently and lurk a lot.  I'm pretty Laid back and not a little lazy so most of the snark and bickering just has me rolling my eyes and moving on.

But I don't like how it has felt here lately and if getting off my butt and reporting posts is what it takes to make this feel like home again then I'm in too.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 06:16:48 PM by Sootikin »

LadyPekoe

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 06:12:12 PM »
I don't really like the idea that we're now trying to guess who's reporting who, and who the 'teacher's pets' are.  It really adds a nasty undercurrent to everything, can't we just take people at face value and hope for the best?

I've reported a few posts in the time I've been here, and I've had a few of my posts reported, its ok that it happens, its not 'tattling' we're all grown ups now!

Amen.

It sounds really like you've got some kind of personal problem with these so-called teacher's pets  :( Even the terminology is sneaky and childish. Everyone has an option to report or not report and always has. I really do not see the point of this "call to arms" against some unidentified "teacher's pets" other than to stir up trouble.  :-\ Although, that said, i guess i could have just reported this whole thread if that is how i feel about it...

Well, Wordgeek didn't think it was a problematic thread, apparently.  I'm trying to be proactive and positive.

And, as to terminology, to each their own. 

It's not about our right to report or not report.  It's about the laid-back people never reporting and some poster's over-reporting.  These things have to be brought out to people's attention so it can be more far. 

It isn't about my "personal problems", although I'm sure we all have posters we like less than others.  I think we should all be on the same page and I think, up until recently, that some of us were reading a different book.

Mods, I am thankful for all the additional transparency lately.  Thank you!
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Schmoopie3928

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 06:17:53 PM »
Thank you Wordgeek! I am going to try and be more diligent with my reporting. It's true we need to stop complaining and fix it. It's like that old Aesop's Fable. If you want it done right, do it yourself!

hobish

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 06:26:09 PM »
Well, I am glad to hear that. There are always those posters who are loved more than others, and I am happy to know that you arenít intending a pogrom against those loved less. There are posters I consistently disagree with, and maybe I think they are too blunt, or they just donít communicate in a soft and fuzzy way. Iím not going to label them as teacherís pets and stalk them around EHell to report them every time they donít light up my heart light, KWIM? I bet you a dollar that is exactly how some people are going to take this. I am glad the mods, or at least Wordgeek, are cheered by it. I am somewhat more cynical.

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LadyPekoe

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 06:32:31 PM »
Well, I am glad to hear that. There are always those posters who are loved more than others, and I am happy to know that you arenít intending a pogrom against those loved less. There are posters I consistently disagree with, and maybe I think they are too blunt, or they just donít communicate in a soft and fuzzy way. Iím not going to label them as teacherís pets and stalk them around EHell to report them every time they donít light up my heart light, KWIM? I bet you a dollar that is exactly how some people are going to take this. I am glad the mods, or at least Wordgeek, are cheered by it. I am somewhat more cynical.


And that's fine.  We all see things through our lens of experience.  I tend to like the posters who are more blunt, so we are all different :)  And, honestly, although I know it appears differently, but I do actually have a husband, family, school, and friends, so the sum-total of my life is not on EH--I certainly don't have the time or inclination to "stalk" people around EHell. 
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Wendy Moira Angela Pan

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 06:55:33 PM »
I agree with hobish that people will interpret this as a popularity contest. I also think we should all be proactive about reporting posts that are rude or against the rules.

Really, though, I don't think the atmosphere around here will grow pleasanter unless we all commit to being good forum members. That is, being polite, if not pleasant, not allowing ourselves to be easily provoked, assuming the best of each other, and moving on when other posters irk us occasionally. The moderation can change, and it would be nice if it were more transparent, but I think people would criticize the mods no matter what.

It's easy to complain about the forum no longer being a nice place for a conversation. It's harder to do your (general) part by not contributing to the snarky atmosphere and not taking the bait when you think other posters are trying to provoke you.   

tnpenguinbaby

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 07:10:41 PM »
I sincerely hope LadyPekoe's idea works.  I, for one, am more than happy to step up my reports.  Unfortunately, everytime I've reported or e-mailed a mod it has been as if the message was beamed into outer space.  No response, no apparent action and no change.

I don't mind the more forthright, blunt posters at all.  I do object to the ones who deliberately provoke others and don't get called on it.  I will follow LadyP's lead and hope it helps.




supernova

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 07:11:16 PM »
OP, great idea. 

I confess I've only reported a couple of posts in my entire tenure on the board -- and I've felt personally victimized many times.  That's my fault, and I'm not taking it any more -- I'm going to stand up for myself, walk away from the conversation, and report the post. As, it seems, the mods would prefer. 

Thank you for posting this.   :)

Ehelldame

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2011, 07:17:06 PM »

EHDame is busy.  The mods are busy.  That all makes perfect sense to me.  They only really have time to read what people complain about.  That also make amazing sense. 


Let me give you an example of how busy.  In the past month, I spent many hours at the hospice bedside of a friend dying of cancer holding her hand.  A week after she died, another friend unexpectedly dropped dead from a heart attack and I volunteered to pull off a lunch reception after the funeral for 300 people in just four days.  I just returned from an out of state trip to address legal issues related to my father's messy death a year ago. Oh, if I were to tell that story, jaws would be scraping the floor.  Another mod had a recent death in the family that wasn't exactly pleasant and her high level of emotions leaked out onto the forum. 

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EHDame points out that the same people tend to bring things to her attention--that's my problem.

I'm not sure I said that.  I reported that in the past 30 days 167 different forum members made reports about threads and posts. 

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I rarely report posts because they tend not to bother me.  I either debate or leave, I feel no need to complain most of the time.  I should be able to defend my point well without going crying to "mommy" if I have to or if everybody disagrees with me, maybe I'm the problem. 

People abusing the report link to tattle on someone who just disagreed with them get ignored. 

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But I suspect I can guess at least a couple of the constant "flaggers" and I find it annoying because:

I doubt you can.  I'm looking at the list of those 167 and anyone would be pretty hardpressed to figure out who reports the most.  And if you start a reporting campaign based on your exceedingly limited knowledge of who you think are the "flaggers", you are going to quickly get on the moderator radar.  In other words, it's my job to deal with flaggers, not yours.

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1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

I know many of the mods, including me, read the entire thread or go back to the Staff folder to ask what the dynamics are.   Calling out (rehashing fights from other threads) , by the way, in a different thread is against forum rules.   The mods read this and conclude that what is happening has to do with interpersonal conflict between two people with personalities that rub each other the wrong way and moderate both of them. 


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2.  they only report people who disagree with them.  Personally, I think these posters need to pull up their big boy/girl panties and move on with their day, but that's me.

There is more of that kind of reporting than we like and we ignore them.  I haven't checked the report logs but when people complain that they make reports but no mods act on them, I'm left wondering if their report was one of those,  "Wah!  So and so disagreed with me and that's RUDE!".   

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It very much reminds me of the teacher's pet who is sticking her tongue out at people who they turn around.

Well, that's pretty insulting because a teacher's pet carries the implicit understanding that the teacher is complicit in favoring the "pet". 

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So, my solution is going to be a steady increase in flagging the people who I think "get away with it". 

Just be aware that I have personally warned and gagged people who abuse the report link for their own personal agendas.  The irony is that your determination to report more suspects actually makes more work for the moderators.  Stick to reporting behavior that clearly violates a forum rule or alerts the mods to a potential problem brewing. 

furrcats

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2011, 07:36:20 PM »
I'm so sorry about what you and the mods are going through right now  :(

Two Ravens

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2011, 07:50:57 PM »
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1.  either they are endlessly snarky and I'm guessing not flagging their own snarky posts, so they constantly get away with it until someone calls them on it--unfortunately that tends to happen "in thread" which doesn't get read instead of through flagging.  The calling out thread gets flagged by Ms. Snarky, the thread doesn't get read in total, and the the calling out person gets in trouble

I know many of the mods, including me, read the entire thread or go back to the Staff folder to ask what the dynamics are.   Calling out (rehashing fights from other threads) , by the way, in a different thread is against forum rules.   The mods read this and conclude that what is happening has to do with interpersonal conflict between two people with personalities that rub each other the wrong way and moderate both of them. 



In this post, http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2525700#msg2525700, Cass pointed out she only read the last post that was reported. 

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The moral of the story is if you see something you don't like, report it rather than wait. We don't see everything, and no, if I'm in a hurry I'm not about to sit down and read 10 pages of a thread looking for who's at fault. I'm more interested in putting out the fire.

It seems to me that with the new warning systems being rolled out, it would have been better if someone had reported some of the earlier posts that started the heated trend.  It is unclear if those other people would get a warning under this new system.

I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 07:55:36 PM by Two Ravens »

HorseFreak

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2011, 08:08:59 PM »
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

Wordgeek

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2011, 08:12:43 PM »
Two Ravens, Cass also said, later in the discussion, that she normally does read the whole thread.  We're human beings, not machines.

As to your example, do you have any constructive suggestions?