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Author Topic: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun  (Read 81379 times)

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wolfie

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2011, 07:16:58 PM »
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.

hobish

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2011, 08:09:27 PM »
This is starting to be more positive, and I appreciate that.

The members forget how powerful you are.  Don't like the content?  Post what you do like!  Want to see more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions?  Post more on-topic, etiquette-heavy discussions.  Think someone is being inappropriate and detrimental to the discussion or the forum?  Take the wind out of their sails by not giving them fodder to work with. 

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Really? Not all involvement i hope.  :( I mean, you guys read and post just because you like it, too, right? I always figured you guys are part of the community, too, not just overseers or something. Do you get to just surf around and read and post just because you feel like it? 
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kareng57

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2011, 08:10:19 PM »
Is there a character limit to the explanation box when you report a post? Last time I reported a post it wasn't because the post itself was bad but because the entire thread seemed to be going downhill but I wasn't sure how much of an explanation I could put into the box so I was very short. Now I wonder if I can get a wordier explanation in if there is a next time.


I know, I don't report posts very often, but I agree  that there's not much room for explanation.

SiotehCat

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2011, 08:21:58 PM »
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.

Shores

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2011, 08:29:11 PM »
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.
There have been times when I've reported something and left the comment box blank. I know it's not what mods would prefer, but there have certainly been a few times that I just could not word what I wanted to say, could not describe the issue, but I wanted it at least on SOMEONE'S radar. It's not the best way to handle it, but if you really struggle to say what you think is wrong, I still think it would be better to report with no explanation than not report at all.
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still in va

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2011, 09:10:57 PM »
There's been a few times that I was going to report something then changed my mind because I couldn't think of the best way to describe the reason I was reporting it. In those cases the posts weren't glaringly snarky, rude, or unhelpful ,so I ended up feeling foolish for thinking about flagging them.

That's why I really liked the suggestion about having a drop-down menu. It also would help the mods identify what kind of complaint they're dealing with and it might encourage the posters to be more active with reporting posts.

I have had the same problem. I try to think of short ways to describe me reason and then just give up or leave something something too vague.
There have been times when I've reported something and left the comment box blank. I know it's not what mods would prefer, but there have certainly been a few times that I just could not word what I wanted to say, could not describe the issue, but I wanted it at least on SOMEONE'S radar. It's not the best way to handle it, but if you really struggle to say what you think is wrong, I still think it would be better to report with no explanation than not report at all.

Shores, that's very interesting to me.  i reported two posts this week (probably the 4th & 5th times i've reported since i've been here!), and i really struggled to figure out what to write.  one felt like a personal attack on another poster, but it was more of a "tone" thing over several posts.  i really didn't know how to say that!

mods who are reading, if you do get a blank report for a post, what do you do?  figure the submitter hit the wrong button and disregard?  go look anyway?

LadyPekoe

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2011, 09:36:55 PM »
I get all the EhellDames points but that just isn't how I read the post in the locked thread.  I suppose I was wrong :)  It's easy to read posts wrong.  For example, when I said "gets away with it", I didn't mean randomly flagging people who I dislike, I meant flagging the serially snarky who never seem to tone it down and yet, never seem to be banned.

And I wasn't being insulting about being busy.  Lots of us our busy.  I understand. 

But I still think that people need to start flagging what they are bothered by.  I honestly think I have flagged 2 posts in the entire 3 years or so I have been here, I just tend not to get bothered enough to do so.  I'm still not going to flag people who disagree with me but I think I will start flagging some of the super snarky too.

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One Goat to Rule Them All

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2011, 09:54:43 PM »
While I agree that a drop down box would be helpful, that doesn't necessarily make it feasible. The mod's aren't computer programmers, we have to work within the constraints of the forum software.

goblue2539

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2011, 09:59:35 PM »
LP, I think I understand where you're coming from.  We're getting a lot more information on how the Dame and the Mods operate and how it impacts and is affected by their real life lives.  Now, you're pointing out that a lot of us may want to reconsider how we react to things based on that information.

Like some PPs, I often walk away from a post that annoys, irritates, or upsets me because I figure if it's really bad and not just me, someone else already did it.  Knowing that the Mods have their hands full figuring out which reports are serious and which ones are frivolous actually does make me feel like I should be reporting more often.  While I know that this "makes work" for the Mods, I would hope that having multiple reports of the same post or poster would help them narrow things down in the long run.

I hope that if/when I feel the need to report a post, it'll be influenced by the information here.  I will do my level best as a member of this community to make sure that I'm not reporting because someone made me mad, but because I really feel that someone should be looking at what they said.  However, I will make more of an effort to report posts that I feel cross a line because I can't sit back and pretend that "someone else will do it".  It's not their job to report something that I feel is wrong.  It's mine.

Thank you LadyPekoe.  The point isn't the turn of phrase you used.  The point is that we need to be more proactive, and I agree with you.

Mikayla

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2011, 10:12:18 PM »

I guess there are mixed messages coming out then, because I know I've seen posts in the past where mods have stated that they appreciate it when the forum does a little 'self moderating'.

I've read through to the end of this, and while I think there are some really good points made, this struck me, because I think some self regulating is important.  There are many polite ways to do it, because I've done it myself.  Call a statement unfair, or ask someone to tone it down. 

But a big part of the problem is that there are people in here, some with massive post counts and others much newer, where I cringe every time they post.  The comments aren't report-worthy, at least by my definition. But they go that extra step to toss in possible snark.  Or they dive bomb threads where they haven't been participating because they caught someone missing a point in the OP and they simply must point it out.  Or they toss in a one-liner question with an undercurrent of disbelief.

I think that, in subtle ways, they contribute to any negative tone people are seeing.  They send out a little piece of bait, and pretty soon the sharks are circling. 

Maybe we do need clarification on this.  Because the one thing that seems obvious is that an etiquette forum should be holding itself to a higher standard.  And nothing sucks more than having a thread locked when 90 percent of the participants were enjoying it and contributing. 

I'm going to make a greater effort to report the truly egregious comments, but it's the lesser ones from serial antagonists that can be trickier, imo. 

Ehelldame

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2011, 11:34:53 PM »

Mod involvement in a thread is invariably the result of a violation report.  There is a place for comments, although not a drop-down box.   A concise description of the problem, with a summary of the thread when necessary, is immensely helpful.  There are lots of posters who spend way more time on the forum than any of the mods - also, there are way more of you.  The report violation feature is the quickest, most efficient way of notifying us of a problem.  And we rarely know about any problems other than the ones reported.

Really? Not all involvement i hope.  :( I mean, you guys read and post just because you like it, too, right? I always figured you guys are part of the community, too, not just overseers or something. Do you get to just surf around and read and post just because you feel like it?
[/quote]

I noted a long time ago that the minute I participate in a non-moderated, etiquette related thread, everyone goes quiet.  I rarely participate in threads anymore out of courtesy for others having a good time discussing the topic.  I do, however, read the Hugs folder to keep track of what's happening to people, techno-etiquette is a favorite folder, the ghost story thread is a favorite, I check in on the meet and greet folder occasionally (Is everyone having fun in there?).  I usually wander around the forum peeking in on interesting discussions. 

Ehelldame

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2011, 12:09:21 AM »



In this post, http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=102548.msg2525700#msg2525700, Cass pointed out she only read the last post that was reported. 

 

Cass had a death in the family earlier that day.  I was traveling all day and was unavailable.  Other mods were also tied up.  She took care of the problem as best she could given the circumstances.   Personally I would have selfishly ignored Ehell altogether to grieve and let the reports go unanswered.  Come to think of it, I did exactly that while I sat during a deathwatch recently which would have earned me scorn for "ignoring the problem" or "playing favorites" when I didn't jump at someone's beck and call to answer their report.   Cass, on the other hand, tried to keep up with the reports and understandably didn't quite get it right.

Quote
It seems to me that with the new warning systems being rolled out, it would have been better if someone had reported some of the earlier posts that started the heated trend. 

Look at it from our perspective.  A Report gets logged into the moderation line up.  It's the first (and often only) report for that thread.  A mod reads the offending post and it sure looks snippy.  With no other  prior reports, the assumption is often that this reported post was the one that started it all.   Moderator takes action to snuff out the fire he/she sees only to have people gripe that it was the wrong person.


MariaE

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2011, 02:22:52 AM »
What I'll sometimes do is report a post and in the comment box write something along the lines of, "I'm using this one post as an example, but I feel the entire thread has gone downhill." Precisely in order to not call out a specific poster, but a trend.
 
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Ehelldame

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2011, 08:16:19 AM »
What I'll sometimes do is report a post and in the comment box write something along the lines of, "I'm using this one post as an example, but I feel the entire thread has gone downhill." Precisely in order to not call out a specific poster, but a trend.

Yes!  Thank you, Maria.  You do a very good job alerting mods to downward trends so they can keep an eye on it.  The default is that mods will wait to see if the posters can work out the problem amongst themselves and get the thread back on track without moderator intervention.   And often people do work it out.  I think people need to realize that, being human, there will be rough spots in our communications with each other and people need to work through it to reach a mutual understanding.  That is what mature, civil-minded people do.  That's what we mean by self-moderating...take responsibility for your own behavior. 

Ehelldame

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Re: Empowering the people ie Don't let the Teacher's Pets have all the fun
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2011, 08:55:12 AM »
I do have a question about proper behavior in threads though.  It seems like some posters like to "shout down" other posters by posting a lot in a thread.  It seems to go like this:

OP: I have a problem and its this....
Poster 1: You should try to do this and that.
Poster 2:No, OP should X.
Poster 3: I agree with Poster 1, you should try it.
Poster 2: No, you are wrong, she shouldn't because of blah, blah.
Poster 4: Have you tried Y?
Poster 2: Y won't work.  The only thing she can do it X.
Poster 3: I don't think X will work.
Poster 2: Yes it will.  You are all wrong.  Blah Blah.
Poster 5: What about Z?
Poster 2: Only X will work.

Is Poster 2 behaving properly?  It almost seems to be bully-like behavior to me.  There are some threads that I won't even bother posting in because I know I won't have the stamina (or the desire) to engage them...

I particularly agree that this isn't appropriate behavior. There have been several threads in the past few months that I have stopped reading or resisted posting in because previous posters have been trying to drown out others with "I'm right and it's the ONLY way!" over and over. I tend to walk away from threads in which people criticize a suggestion I've made based on their own individual experience without letting the OP weigh in. I'm not here to validate my personal experiences to strangers; your anecdote is not greater than mine.

When I read this example, I see various people with quite divergent opinions having a disagreement.    In  real life there is a broad diversity of personalities, opinions, customs, manners of speaking, etc.  An etiquette forum isn't going to make those differences go away and members will need to learn how to interact with people very different than themselves.   

If I were to get a report about a thread like exampled above, my first thought would be,  "Hmm, why haven't Posters 3,4, and 5 been able to present/argue their case more effectively?"  If someone comes better prepared than others to defend their position, why would that be worthy of moderating action?  Civil debate can be enormously fun and mentally stimulating but let's face it, it takes practice if you want to be good at it.  I'd go so far as to say that civil debate is like a game (think of high school and college debate teams that compete) and some people play it better than others.   

  The feeling of being bullied is perhaps nothing more than the feeling that you are losing to a better prepared person.   It seems to me the remedy is to become a better debater, learn to make cogent, well formed points, present evidence well and then relax knowing you made the best possible case you could and then let it go.   Readers are not stupid and they can weigh the positions and to be honest, people really do respect someone who can state their positions well.