Your holiday hill to die on.

[Luci]

I have never had a holiday hill, but I've decided to climb one this year.  I will not be doing any Christmas shopping at retail stores that are open on Thanksgiving or ridiculously early for Black Friday (i.e. "midnight after Thanksgiving - 6 AM, or even 5 AM, I won't object, although I won't be shopping then myself).  Convenience stores can definitely be open on Thanksgiving; that's why they are "convenience" stores, because they are open extra time.  Grocery stores I can live with, especially those ones that are open because they have a pharmacy (sometimes people need to fill prescriptions unexpectedly).  Target, Kohl's, JC Penney (disclaimer: I don't know if any of these 3 will be doing this) type stores, stay the heck closed and let your employees celebrate Thanksgiving.  Especially do not make someone go to work on Thanksgiving afternoon and work for 12 hours (not that I'd have shopped at Wal-Mart anyway).

My mother disagrees with me on this.  She thinks the convenience stores can be open, and anyone who didn't get off their duff and buy their groceries at least the day before can pay the convenience store prices or go without, and the grocery store employees should get the day off, too.  I was surprised; I thought she'd have the opposite attitude and that the employees should work whenever the stores required them, too.

I've already started boycotting the ones that plan to do this - and sending daily e-mails stating that I'm boycotting them and why. Maybe we should set up a petition asking them to stay closed till at least noon on Friday. The fact I know they are doing this means they are heavy on the ads. I rarely watch live TV - mostly Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu.

I also think that when the next person is killed at one of these events the cops should arrest every adult customer, the manager, and every officer in the corporation for murder. The poor retail workers should not be punished they are just trying to put food on their tables.

As long as the customers show up and they make a profit, your telling them will do no good.

Actually the most you can hope for is that your boycott will make a difference.

Your constant emails will just get you all worked up and they don't care.

[SPuck]

Okay so I was looking up Boxing Day on the internet, and why would the day after Christmas be one of the busiest days for shopping for the year? I understand the days before Christmas but the day after kind of throws me off and wikipedia indicates it was historically a gift giving day for superiors to their servants because of the servants working on Christmas day itself.

[lady_disdain]

Okay so I was looking up Boxing Day on the internet, and why would the day after Christmas be one of the busiest days for shopping for the year? I understand the days before Christmas but the day after kind of throws me off and wikipedia indicates it was historically a gift giving day for superiors to their servants because of the servants working on Christmas day itself.

Because of sales. Stores have huge sales with all the leftover merchandise.

[Outdoor Girl]

Boxing Day is very much like Black Friday - line ups out the wazoo, great deals etc.  I have heard of some people giving a picture of the gift then going out and buying it on Boxing Day to save money.  I also know some people who start shopping for next Christmas on Boxing Day, especially in terms of decorations, wrapping paper, cards, etc.  The stores would rather move the merchandise than store it for the better part of the year.

I will not be joining the masses this year - or ever.   

[JenJay]

I have never had a holiday hill, but I've decided to climb one this year.  I will not be doing any Christmas shopping at retail stores that are open on Thanksgiving or ridiculously early for Black Friday (i.e. "midnight after Thanksgiving - 6 AM, or even 5 AM, I won't object, although I won't be shopping then myself).  Convenience stores can definitely be open on Thanksgiving; that's why they are "convenience" stores, because they are open extra time.  Grocery stores I can live with, especially those ones that are open because they have a pharmacy (sometimes people need to fill prescriptions unexpectedly).  Target, Kohl's, JC Penney (disclaimer: I don't know if any of these 3 will be doing this) type stores, stay the heck closed and let your employees celebrate Thanksgiving.  Especially do not make someone go to work on Thanksgiving afternoon and work for 12 hours (not that I'd have shopped at Wal-Mart anyway).

My mother disagrees with me on this.  She thinks the convenience stores can be open, and anyone who didn't get off their duff and buy their groceries at least the day before can pay the convenience store prices or go without, and the grocery store employees should get the day off, too.  I was surprised; I thought she'd have the opposite attitude and that the employees should work whenever the stores required them, too.

I'm going to join you! I've never cared to try my luck on Black Friday but it wasn't until I worked retail for a few years that I realized just how nasty customers and employers can be about holidays. Even the people who are trying to be nice say eye-rolling worthy things like "It's not right that you have to work. You should be at home with family!" to which you're not allowed to reply "Well... if people like you didn't show up expecting the doors to be open..." At least they closed at 5pm on Thanksgiving and Christmas eve and were only open Christmas day if they had enough people volunteer to work. (They always did, not everyone celebrates or wants to hang out with extended family. Double overtime looks pretty good when the alternative is to sit around and be bored. lol)

I have a close relative who recently quit working for WalMart and one of her biggest complaints about the place is how they treat employees at holiday times. This year they've decided to kick off the black friday deals starting at 8pm Thanksgiving evening so apparently employees have been split into two shifts - those who will work 5am to 5pm thanksgiving day and those who will work 5pm to 5am overnight for the mad-house that will be the sales. After that it goes back to regular shifts. So basically if you work for walmart you can kiss Thanksgiving goodbye because you'll either be working all day or sleeping in preparation for working all night. She always had to go to work midnight to noon on Dec 26th (as in finish your Christmas dinner and take a nap because you're going to work at midnight) to begin tearing down the Christmas items, moving them to the discount areas and setting up for Valentine's Day. I wish I were joking. This was mandatory and anyone who didn't show up as scheduled would get written up.

[SoCalVal]

I have never had a holiday hill, but I've decided to climb one this year.  I will not be doing any Christmas shopping at retail stores that are open on Thanksgiving or ridiculously early for Black Friday (i.e. "midnight after Thanksgiving - 6 AM, or even 5 AM, I won't object, although I won't be shopping then myself).  Convenience stores can definitely be open on Thanksgiving; that's why they are "convenience" stores, because they are open extra time.  Grocery stores I can live with, especially those ones that are open because they have a pharmacy (sometimes people need to fill prescriptions unexpectedly).  Target, Kohl's, JC Penney (disclaimer: I don't know if any of these 3 will be doing this) type stores, stay the heck closed and let your employees celebrate Thanksgiving.  Especially do not make someone go to work on Thanksgiving afternoon and work for 12 hours (not that I'd have shopped at Wal-Mart anyway).

My mother disagrees with me on this.  She thinks the convenience stores can be open, and anyone who didn't get off their duff and buy their groceries at least the day before can pay the convenience store prices or go without, and the grocery store employees should get the day off, too.  I was surprised; I thought she'd have the opposite attitude and that the employees should work whenever the stores required them, too.

I'm going to join you! I've never cared to try my luck on Black Friday but it wasn't until I worked retail for a few years that I realized just how nasty customers and employers can be about holidays. Even the people who are trying to be nice say eye-rolling worthy things like "It's not right that you have to work. You should be at home with family!" to which you're not allowed to reply "Well... if people like you didn't show up expecting the doors to be open..." At least they closed at 5pm on Thanksgiving and Christmas eve and were only open Christmas day if they had enough people volunteer to work. (They always did, not everyone celebrates or wants to hang out with extended family. Double overtime looks pretty good when the alternative is to sit around and be bored. lol)

I have a close relative who recently quit working for WalMart and one of her biggest complaints about the place is how they treat employees at holiday times. This year they've decided to kick off the black friday deals starting at 8pm Thanksgiving evening so apparently employees have been split into two shifts - those who will work 5am to 5pm thanksgiving day and those who will work 5pm to 5am overnight for the mad-house that will be the sales. After that it goes back to regular shifts. So basically if you work for walmart you can kiss Thanksgiving goodbye because you'll either be working all day or sleeping in preparation for working all night. She always had to go to work midnight to noon on Dec 26th (as in finish your Christmas dinner and take a nap because you're going to work at midnight) to begin tearing down the Christmas items, moving them to the discount areas and setting up for Valentine's Day. I wish I were joking. This was mandatory and anyone who didn't show up as scheduled would get written up.

I despise Wal-Mart with a passion.  I haven't shopped there in years (about ten, I think).  It's stuff like this that makes me despise that corporation.  I recently read a business article in my area where Wal-Mart has blocked the leasing of a space they vacated because the lease would be to one of their competitors.  Wal-Mart is willing to pay the lease until it runs out (14 years) to keep out the competition.  Oh, and the 135,000 SF space is in a depressed area so the big empty anchor space is a deterrent from smaller spaces getting leased in the shopping center since customers are less likely to be drawn to shop there.  Way to support the community, Wal-Mart!

Back on topic -- I don't do Black Friday.  When something is free or deeply discounted, I factor in how much of my time and energy has to be spent to obtain that item.  Many times, it's just not worth it to me.

[Sharnita]

The Wal-Mart stuff seems to be veering dangerously close to politics.

[Jelaza]

I've already started boycotting the ones that plan to do this - and sending daily e-mails stating that I'm boycotting them and why. Maybe we should set up a petition asking them to stay closed till at least noon on Friday. The fact I know they are doing this means they are heavy on the ads. I rarely watch live TV - mostly Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu.

I see no problem with them running at normal hours, or even opening a couple hours early, but opening at 12:01 AM on Friday, or 3 AM or some such is just wrong.  I don't watch live TV at home, because I get no reception except if I were to get cable, and I don't watch enough TV to make a cable subscription worth it, so I haven't seen any TV ads.  (I just wait for anything I want to watch to come out on DVD and then rent or buy it.)

I have to start looking around online to see who is open on Thanksgiving, and who is opening in the wee hours.

Thing is, it would be possible to eliminate - or at least reduce - the madhouse atmosphere.  Open at 7 AM (or 6 even), keep an orderly line outside, pass out coupons or something for the super-special-sale items to the people in line, starting at the front, for the specific item(s) they want to buy, each person can get a maximum number of coupons, the coupons are only good for a specific item, only people with coupons can purchase the super-special-sale items, the number of coupons given out must equal the number of that item available.  Anyone caught cutting in line or pushing/shoving when the doors open get escorted out.  People will still show up early, but there would be no mad rush to be first into the store and first to the aisle with the item in, so no one gets trampled.

[JenJay]

The Wal-Mart stuff seems to be veering dangerously close to politics.

I apologize. I named the store because, well that happens to be the store, but I'm sure many other places are doing the same. It wasn't my intent to single them out. 

[Lady Snowdon]

I'm going to join you! I've never cared to try my luck on Black Friday but it wasn't until I worked retail for a few years that I realized just how nasty customers and employers can be about holidays. Even the people who are trying to be nice say eye-rolling worthy things like "It's not right that you have to work. You should be at home with family!" to which you're not allowed to reply "Well... if people like you didn't show up expecting the doors to be open..." At least they closed at 5pm on Thanksgiving and Christmas eve and were only open Christmas day if they had enough people volunteer to work. (They always did, not everyone celebrates or wants to hang out with extended family. Double overtime looks pretty good when the alternative is to sit around and be bored. lol)

One year, I was working Christmas Day at an airport (5 am to 9 am, and then 12 pm to 8:30 pm - just a peach of a way to spend my Christmas!) and some terminally clueless guy asked me, "Why are you even working today?  I don't think you should be required to work on Christmas Day!".  My response was along the lines of "Oh, well, as long as people buy tickets to fly on Christmas Day, we'll need people to run the airline that day".  He paused for a moment and said, "So...the fact that I bought tickets to fly on this day means you have to work?"    I smiled and said, "Yep!  I'll see you down at the gate for boarding!".  He walked away with a very confused look on his face.  (I ended up being paid triple time - 8 hours holiday pay, my normal hourly rate, and overtime for working over 40 hours in a week - for working that day, so I wasn't complaining too hard...)

[SoCalVal]

This is a new one for DF and me, but we are in agreement on this.

Every year, because our families live out of town, we end up traveling (driving) for Thanksgiving and Christmas and, sometimes, Easter (we've been ill for a couple of Easters).  This year, my car will need new brakes soon, and we are minimizing travel so that the brakes will not need to be replaced until after our wedding in January when we could afford to replace them.  Anyway, that means we've agreed we are not going anywhere that is really going to put additional wear and stress on the brakes so we are not traveling for the holidays.  DF's aunt, nice lady that she normally is, gets a really fixed idea in her head that things need to be the way she wants them for the holidays so, tonight, when DF told her we won't be able to drive out there for Christmas, she actually suggested we take the stupid train (he said no and pointed out that would be a 2-hr+ trip each way for us).  She then had the audacity to suggest that DF's brother and wife have two cars so we should ask to borrow one.  Again, DF said no, we are not going to ask to borrow one of their cars.  Aunt then told DF that she really wants us there for Christmas so she'll ask FBIL for us (I learned of all of this after he got off the phone since I wasn't really paying attention).  I just looked at DF and requested he contact his brother directly and let him know we have no intention of asking to borrow one of their cars so that FBIL doesn't end up thinking that this is what we wanted.

But, seriously??  *We* have to make it out here because SHE wants us to so she doesn't care how it happens as long as she gets what she wants??  I don't think so (and neither does DF).  We'll be staying in town this year.  We know this.  We're not thrilled about it, but that's part of being able to afford our wedding in January.  I'm really peeved right now at his aunt that it's far more important that she gets what she wants (including always hosting the holiday at her house) rather than consider alternatives (like the fact they could all come out here for a change since we bought a house this year).  Incidentally, she hasn't been happy in past years when we've indicated we're going to visit MY family for a specific holiday, but we've ignored her when she's indicated dismay or unhappiness about this.  My feeling is she has no right to be selfish and expect us to spend every holiday with her (my own mother isn't that way and understands and this is my MOTHER, rather than DF's aunt who falls under extended family).

[nayberry]

my hill is a small one but i am firmly camped at the top of it.

i will not spend Christmas with my in-laws, end of.
Firstly, they are more about convenience cooking then actual cooking so it would end up being all ready meal type food (nothing wrong with it but i like fresh for Christmas).

Secondly, and more importantly, FiL is a donkeys rear!  he likes nothing more than starting an argument with me, no matter how much i bean dip he doesn't give it up.
Example - i worked at big franchise widget dealer (not widgets but will do)  i was explaining that there was a massive country wide shortage of part w, very important that all the widgets of type j needed.  he said "rubbish i can get those in 5 minutes on the internet". 
An important note here, the ONLY place i could get this part was by persuading HQ to release them from manufacturing line so that new "widgets" would be delayed so current in use widgets could be fixed. 
He was insistent that i was talking excrement and didn't now how to do my job.  after 20 minutes of my attempting to explain that whilst he may be able to get generic part w, it was not suitable as a long term part on the widget and would cost more in the long run as would need replacing 5 times as much,  that's when i lost it and said that if he couldn't respect me and my knowledge of my job (that he had never EVER done!!) then i was leaving.   oi gathered my stuff whilst hubby told FiL off for upsetting me & we left.
i did go visit again and we made up,  for all of an hour before he started again.  i haven't been back since and it's almost a year now

 i love MiL dearly and if she needs me i will be there like a shot, just so long as i'm not expected to talk to FiL.

[GSNW]

I've posted previously about running to and fro (driving 4+ hours) in past years to mollify both MIL and my large family.  DH and I decided that this year we are not doing it.  We have chosen to vacation for a week in lovely Tulum and we are only inviting each other!

I told my mother this in August.  She was pretty accepting at that time (to my surprise).  Two weeks ago I reminded her about this plan, which she acted like she'd never heard about at first, then I reminded her we had already discussed it, she got all sad and quiet on me.  This is her classic guilt technique - "But I'm so, so, so sad.  You know, your Grandfather is getting old - what if this is his last Christmas?  Christmas is a time for family, etc." 

I was very pleased that I kept my cool (hard to do with my own mother) and stood my ground.  Our plans were set in stone, no changing them, and no apologizing for DH and I wanting to spend some of our precious vacation time together alone.  Another thing I reminded my mother about is that we spend a lot - A LOT - of family time together throughout the year because we WANT to, not because of holiday obligations. 

MIL is a different story - she is still whining about how we are abandoning her for Christmas.  I'm no longer listening, because frankly I don't care!  I have much less stress going into the holidays this year than I have in previous years.

[weeblewobble]

my hill is a small one but i am firmly camped at the top of it.

i will not spend Christmas with my in-laws, end of.
Firstly, they are more about convenience cooking then actual cooking so it would end up being all ready meal type food (nothing wrong with it but i like fresh for Christmas).

Secondly, and more importantly, FiL is a donkeys rear!  he likes nothing more than starting an argument with me, no matter how much i bean dip he doesn't give it up.
Example - i worked at big franchise widget dealer (not widgets but will do)  i was explaining that there was a massive country wide shortage of part w, very important that all the widgets of type j needed.  he said "rubbish i can get those in 5 minutes on the internet". 
An important note here, the ONLY place i could get this part was by persuading HQ to release them from manufacturing line so that new "widgets" would be delayed so current in use widgets could be fixed. 
He was insistent that i was talking excrement and didn't now how to do my job.  after 20 minutes of my attempting to explain that whilst he may be able to get generic part w, it was not suitable as a long term part on the widget and would cost more in the long run as would need replacing 5 times as much,  that's when i lost it and said that if he couldn't respect me and my knowledge of my job (that he had never EVER done!!) then i was leaving.   oi gathered my stuff whilst hubby told FiL off for upsetting me & we left.
i did go visit again and we made up,  for all of an hour before he started again.  i haven't been back since and it's almost a year now

 i love MiL dearly and if she needs me i will be there like a shot, just so long as i'm not expected to talk to FiL.

Ugh.  I have a "Captain Know-it-All" in my family as well.  I got so sick of being told I was too young, too silly, too ill-informed to know what I was talking about, that when we were discussing an issue that was centered in my professional field and I was told I had no idea what I was talking about, I responded, "You're right, those four years of college majoring in the subject and ten years of working experience clearly left me unprepared to have an informed opinion. Would you like some bean dip?"

And I haven't participated in an issue-oriented conversation with that man in four years.  When he tries to draw me in,  I change the subject or am suddenly needed in the next room. I may not have handled it in the most mannerly way, and yes, I was a bit passive aggressive, but I refuse  to be used for a blowhard's grand-standing or conversational self-gratification.

I think your tactic of simply walking away is the best one. And good for your husband for not condoning the behavior.

[ladyknight1]

My hill for this year and forever more:

I will use my china from our wedding for any and all holidays I deem appropriate. I will cook what I want and the meal will be served when I want. Everyone will start eating at the same time. None of our holiday plans will be centered around any television program, including football games. I lived with that for eighteen years and I will never put up with that again.