Author Topic: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32  (Read 15345 times)

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Twik

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2011, 02:49:06 PM »
Virg, Machiavelli has nothing on you!  >:D
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Winterlight

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2011, 03:49:16 PM »

No one is suggesting the OP is obligated to go out with any guy that asks. Why are you screaming about it? Do you think EHellions need to be screamed at? Do you think we need that particular message screamed at us? Do you think the OP does?

Considering how many times I've been told I was 'rude' for turning a guy down for a date, refusing to give a guy my number, or not reacting with joy at the thought of being set up, I can't say as though I'm that upset at seeing it in large bold letters on an etiquette forum.  I wouldn't mind seeing it in inch high blinking letters on every etiquette website, in bold red letters on the first page of every etiquette book, and tattooed on the foreheads of all advice columnists. 

I've been full on lectured that a 'lady' may not turn down a date but is obligated to go on at least one date with any man who gets up the nerve to ask her out.  And when I complained about the lecture, people I previously thought of as polite and rational made comments like 'she's right, you know'.

So, they advise that rather than turn a guy flat, they suggest you give him a glimmer of false hope, only to dash it the *second* time he asks you out? Do they also suggest cutting off the dog's tail one inch at a time, so as not to be cruel?

Nope. More like "keep saying YES every time he asks you out, unless he does something dangerous/illegal/immoral. Then when he wants to take the relationship to the next level and you don't want to, simply say NO". According to them, THAT will hurt their feelings less than a NO early on.

So you wait until he's become attached, then dump him, and that's supposed to hurt him less.

Please tell me you aren't taking advice from these people, because that's the daftest excuse for logic I've ever heard.
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HorseFreak

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2011, 04:15:14 PM »

No one is suggesting the OP is obligated to go out with any guy that asks. Why are you screaming about it? Do you think EHellions need to be screamed at? Do you think we need that particular message screamed at us? Do you think the OP does?

Considering how many times I've been told I was 'rude' for turning a guy down for a date, refusing to give a guy my number, or not reacting with joy at the thought of being set up, I can't say as though I'm that upset at seeing it in large bold letters on an etiquette forum.  I wouldn't mind seeing it in inch high blinking letters on every etiquette website, in bold red letters on the first page of every etiquette book, and tattooed on the foreheads of all advice columnists. 

I've been full on lectured that a 'lady' may not turn down a date but is obligated to go on at least one date with any man who gets up the nerve to ask her out.  And when I complained about the lecture, people I previously thought of as polite and rational made comments like 'she's right, you know'.

I got the same thing about dancing with men at weddings. I went to my cousin's wedding without my boyfriend and one particular young man was very persistent about asking me to dance repeatedly and not letting me gracefully escape. I was given a very hard time about turning down his requests after two songs because he made me uncomfortable and I didn't want to dance with a single young man all night with my BF at home. Apparently people also think, "Well, he made the effort and summoned the courage so you HAVE to dance with him!"

OP, I'm glad you've been able to extricate yourself. It's tough out there.

whiterose

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2011, 04:24:22 PM »

No one is suggesting the OP is obligated to go out with any guy that asks. Why are you screaming about it? Do you think EHellions need to be screamed at? Do you think we need that particular message screamed at us? Do you think the OP does?

Considering how many times I've been told I was 'rude' for turning a guy down for a date, refusing to give a guy my number, or not reacting with joy at the thought of being set up, I can't say as though I'm that upset at seeing it in large bold letters on an etiquette forum.  I wouldn't mind seeing it in inch high blinking letters on every etiquette website, in bold red letters on the first page of every etiquette book, and tattooed on the foreheads of all advice columnists. 

I've been full on lectured that a 'lady' may not turn down a date but is obligated to go on at least one date with any man who gets up the nerve to ask her out.  And when I complained about the lecture, people I previously thought of as polite and rational made comments like 'she's right, you know'.

So, they advise that rather than turn a guy flat, they suggest you give him a glimmer of false hope, only to dash it the *second* time he asks you out? Do they also suggest cutting off the dog's tail one inch at a time, so as not to be cruel?

Nope. More like "keep saying YES every time he asks you out, unless he does something dangerous/illegal/immoral. Then when he wants to take the relationship to the next level and you don't want to, simply say NO". According to them, THAT will hurt their feelings less than a NO early on.

So you wait until he's become attached, then dump him, and that's supposed to hurt him less.

Please tell me you aren't taking advice from these people, because that's the daftest excuse for logic I've ever heard.

Not anymore. Not worth it.
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wolfie

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2011, 04:26:02 PM »

No one is suggesting the OP is obligated to go out with any guy that asks. Why are you screaming about it? Do you think EHellions need to be screamed at? Do you think we need that particular message screamed at us? Do you think the OP does?

Considering how many times I've been told I was 'rude' for turning a guy down for a date, refusing to give a guy my number, or not reacting with joy at the thought of being set up, I can't say as though I'm that upset at seeing it in large bold letters on an etiquette forum.  I wouldn't mind seeing it in inch high blinking letters on every etiquette website, in bold red letters on the first page of every etiquette book, and tattooed on the foreheads of all advice columnists. 

I've been full on lectured that a 'lady' may not turn down a date but is obligated to go on at least one date with any man who gets up the nerve to ask her out.  And when I complained about the lecture, people I previously thought of as polite and rational made comments like 'she's right, you know'.

I got the same thing about dancing with men at weddings. I went to my cousin's wedding without my boyfriend and one particular young man was very persistent about asking me to dance repeatedly and not letting me gracefully escape. I was given a very hard time about turning down his requests after two songs because he made me uncomfortable and I didn't want to dance with a single young man all night with my BF at home. Apparently people also think, "Well, he made the effort and summoned the courage so you HAVE to dance with him!"

I think that there was a time when that really was the etiquette. But that was also the times when you had dance cards and a reasonable excuse was "I'm sorry but my dance card is full" so you would make sure to fill it up with people you liked so you wouldn't be lying when you said that to someone you didn't want to dance with.

Garden Goblin

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2011, 04:30:34 PM »
Nope. More like "keep saying YES every time he asks you out, unless he does something dangerous/illegal/immoral. Then when he wants to take the relationship to the next level and you don't want to, simply say NO". According to them, THAT will hurt their feelings less than a NO early on.

So you wait until he's become attached, then dump him, and that's supposed to hurt him less.

Please tell me you aren't taking advice from these people, because that's the daftest excuse for logic I've ever heard.

Actually, you aren't allowed to say no.  You simply stop answering the phone until he quits calling, and hide out so he doesn't run into you in public until he has gotten the hint and moved on.  Alternately, you can simply be completely unenthusiastic about the date and hope he gets the hint that way.  But you aren't allowed to take the initiative to extract yourself from the date, because that would be rude and unladylike.   Your best bet is to set up with a friend to call you in the middle of the date with a fake emergency, and then be 'unavailable' at whatever time he calls and asks you again, or assure him that 'maybe next time' if he invites you to anything that makes you uncomfortable.  But you aren't allowed to actually say 'no'.  Because that would be unladylike and a rejection that would utterly crush his self-esteem.

Admittedly, some of the 'let him down easy' stuff is just a matter of self-preservation.  There are some guys (I won't call them men) who react a bit... badly... to rejection or even an overt display of non-interest.

Twik

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2011, 04:56:10 PM »
I can understand the dancing thing a bit. In the days when it was a general social activity, not restricted to romantic partners, if everyone chose only to accept dances from the "cool" guys (who only asked the gorgeous girls), half of the group would hang around the entire evening doing nothing but envying those fortunate enough to find partners. So, one was supposed to accept ONE (1) dance with anyone who asked. They were supposed to realize that after that ONE (1) dance, they should find someone else to pester. Also, the ritual of "cutting in" was not only allowed, but encouraged. You learned a secret signal for a male friend to come over, gently push the objectionable partner aside, while murmuring, "May I cut in?" and finishing the dance with you. The objectionable partner then had to dance with everyone else before trying again.

So, girls had an obligation to accept, but males had an obligation to keep going the rounds, unless they had a dance partner lined up on a card. People who danced only with their date or other object of desire were considered social clods. It worked when people knew the rules. But it was not applicable to dating (particularly the "cutting in" part).
My cousin's memoir of love and loneliness while raising a child with multiple disabilities will be out on Amazon soon! Know the Night, by Maria Mutch, has been called "full of hope, light, and companionship for surviving the small hours of the night."

Raintree

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2011, 02:53:36 PM »
Yes, I've also had the disbelieving, "But why won't you go out with him?"  (Um, because I'm not interested in him).


I won't even go out on one date with a guy I'm not interested in. At least not anymore. It's always a mistake. There may be some that I think I MAY be interested in (ie not interested yet, but could be, maybe) and those are worthy of giving a chance to, but there has to be *something* there to spark my curiosity or interest for me to go out with them on a date-like setting. I'd say initial disinterest is a good indicator of future disinterest. It's not like the movies, where for the first hour and a half of the movie the woman hates the guy, and he spends the whole movie pursuing her until something happens and she changes her mind. That just doesn't happen in real life (or if it does, I've never heard of it).

Curly Wurly Doggie Breath

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2011, 03:23:51 AM »
I went on 4 outings with someone called "chook". I liked him, but, there was no Physical , mental or intellectual attraction going for me.

I liked him,he was kind and sweet but,we had totally different goals in life. No way on Earth was he marriage material for me. And he was talking marriage on the second date

Ummm, long story cut short, I still get asked how he is and whyyyyyyyy didn't we stay together, Ummmm. 4 outings don't make me his girlfriend or fiance.

ed to say it wasn't even a date at all, all were group outings where I went there with 'other' friends
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:26:02 AM by Dragons 8 Cactus »

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LaciGirl007

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2011, 04:21:36 PM »
Nope. More like "keep saying YES every time he asks you out, unless he does something dangerous/illegal/immoral. Then when he wants to take the relationship to the next level and you don't want to, simply say NO". According to them, THAT will hurt their feelings less than a NO early on.

So you wait until he's become attached, then dump him, and that's supposed to hurt him less.

Please tell me you aren't taking advice from these people, because that's the daftest excuse for logic I've ever heard.

Actually, you aren't allowed to say no.  You simply stop answering the phone until he quits calling, and hide out so he doesn't run into you in public until he has gotten the hint and moved on.  Alternately, you can simply be completely unenthusiastic about the date and hope he gets the hint that way.  But you aren't allowed to take the initiative to extract yourself from the date, because that would be rude and unladylike.   Your best bet is to set up with a friend to call you in the middle of the date with a fake emergency, and then be 'unavailable' at whatever time he calls and asks you again, or assure him that 'maybe next time' if he invites you to anything that makes you uncomfortable.  But you aren't allowed to actually say 'no'.  Because that would be unladylike and a rejection that would utterly crush his self-esteem.

Admittedly, some of the 'let him down easy' stuff is just a matter of self-preservation.  There are some guys (I won't call them men) who react a bit... badly... to rejection or even an overt display of non-interest.
You're joking, of course, aren't you? 

Garden Goblin

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2011, 10:00:11 PM »
You're joking, of course, aren't you?

I wish I was, but that's actually the mindset of folks like the 'lady' I referenced in my OP.  Redirect, be unavailable, etc... but never outright reject.

AlwaysQuizzical

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2011, 12:33:02 AM »
And all these rules make much more sense when applied to a time when the lady wouldn't be left alone with a man. If you have a chaperone (or group) with you on your date then there is no harm in going out with someone just to see, but in a society where women often date a man alone she should be extra careful not to give the man the wrong impression. Leading a guy on can also be more hurtful than just declining the date in the first place, they don't know why you run hot and cold any more than you do when a guy does that.  :-\

poundcake

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2011, 01:12:54 PM »
1) Point blank ask your friend why she refuses to accept your no.

2) Tell your friend no woman is ever, EVER, obligated to go on a adte with any man for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER! Sorry to scream that, but that attitude rankles me to no end.

3) Tell Steve.  No. nothing else, no.

I thought that needed just a weensy bit more emphasis.

The above emphasis was totally unnecesary.  If you wish to make a point, make it without doing this.

Forgive me for trying to use humor to try to emphasize the very supportive point. I thought that was pretty clear.

kittytongue

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2011, 03:55:25 PM »
1) Point blank ask your friend why she refuses to accept your no.

2) Tell your friend no woman is ever, EVER, obligated to go on a adte with any man for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER! Sorry to scream that, but that attitude rankles me to no end.

3) Tell Steve.  No. nothing else, no.

I thought that needed just a weensy bit more emphasis.

The above emphasis was totally unnecesary.  If you wish to make a point, make it without doing this.

Forgive me for trying to use humor to try to emphasize the very supportive point. I thought that was pretty clear.

The way it came out though, the shouting and red high-lighting, was all I heard.  I think we all realize that you meant well but sometimes comedic timing can be a little off, KWIM?

HermioneGranger

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Re: Give him a chance - I'd rather not UPDATE #32
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2011, 12:28:08 PM »
I think that you handled it pretty well, and I hope that she got the message.  There's no reason for you to date someone you have no chemistry with just to say that you're dating someone.