Author Topic: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?  (Read 18224 times)

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Ashaela

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2011, 10:59:13 AM »
Sorry- should have mentioned. One of the ladies from the club left her phone in the dojo after class. The Sensei took it home with her in order to return it to the group member. Its an iPhone, and messages that xyz had replied to her post were popping up. The Sensei tried a couple of pins (note to iPhone owners 2512 is not as secure as you all seem to think!) and got on the group.

Oh, and the group is not that "secret" in a nasty way- it's just how it is set on Facebook. The other rule they have is not to talk about it in front of other people.

Wow.  I already thought Sensei was way out of line, and this just pushes her over into creepy-stalker-territory as far as I'm concerned.  When people's phones now contain so much of their private life, the only way I might ever consider looking into someone's phone would be if I didn't know whose it was (i.e., found it on the street) and had no good way to find out (like, say, asking a small group that meets regularly which one of them it belonged to?)  I definitely would never try to break into a phone that the owner had locked to keep private!
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TychaBrahe

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2011, 11:00:58 AM »
Sorry- should have mentioned. One of the ladies from the club left her phone in the dojo after class. The Sensei took it home with her in order to return it to the group member. Its an iPhone, and messages that xyz had replied to her post were popping up. The Sensei tried a couple of pins (note to iPhone owners 2512 is not as secure as you all seem to think!) and got on the group.

What's that saying about people who listen at closed doors not liking what they hear?

I can't believe *he's* upset over something he read on *a student's* phone. 

That's so letter-to-Dear-Abby.  "I hacked into my boyfriend's e-mail and found he was exchanging perfectly innocent messages with a coworker, and now I'm all offended because he's talking to another woman."
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Two Ravens

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2011, 11:01:12 AM »
I think we're missing a huge part of the story - why did the sensei seek out the secret group? How had she even heard about it in the first place? And what did she discover about it to cause such a reaction?

From the OP it definitely sounds like a huge overreaction, and that the sensei is interfering where she has no business being, but I'm just wondering what caused the overreaction, specifically because it seems to be so far across the line as to make the line a dot.


Sorry- should have mentioned. One of the ladies from the club left her phone in the dojo after class. The Sensei took it home with her in order to return it to the group member. Its an iPhone, and messages that xyz had replied to her post were popping up. The Sensei tried a couple of pins (note to iPhone owners 2512 is not as secure as you all seem to think!) and got on the group.

Oh, and the group is not that "secret" in a nasty way- it's just how it is set on Facebook. The other rule they have is not to talk about it in front of other people.

This is a pretty crucial detail.

Nanny Ogg

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2011, 11:10:19 AM »
I think we're missing a huge part of the story - why did the sensei seek out the secret group? How had she even heard about it in the first place? And what did she discover about it to cause such a reaction?

From the OP it definitely sounds like a huge overreaction, and that the sensei is interfering where she has no business being, but I'm just wondering what caused the overreaction, specifically because it seems to be so far across the line as to make the line a dot.


Sorry- should have mentioned. One of the ladies from the club left her phone in the dojo after class. The Sensei took it home with her in order to return it to the group member. Its an iPhone, and messages that xyz had replied to her post were popping up. The Sensei tried a couple of pins (note to iPhone owners 2512 is not as secure as you all seem to think!) and got on the group.

Oh, and the group is not that "secret" in a nasty way- it's just how it is set on Facebook. The other rule they have is not to talk about it in front of other people.

This is a pretty crucial detail.

Sorry- when I posted originally I was asking "is the sensei ok to do this in response to the group" rather than just "i cant believe the sensei acted like this" and didn't realise it was so crucial. I'm rubbish at repeating stories without jumbling information lol



PeasNCues

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2011, 11:10:39 AM »
I don't think that how the sensei found out really IS all the crucial to the story - except to illustrate how off-the-wall this sensei actually is in her actions other than the banning.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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TychaBrahe

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2011, 11:15:02 AM »
I don't think that how the sensei found out really IS all the crucial to the story - except to illustrate how off-the-wall this sensei actually is in her actions other than the banning.

No, I think it is important.

No one came to the sensei to say they felt they were being ignored or shunned.  No one complained that people were playing favorites in...well, whatever one can do in a martial arts class to show favoritism, maybe picking sparring partners or offering advice.  Never done it, don't know.  No one felt left out or excluded or ganged up on.

It came out because of accidental exposure, but even then, had the sensei been minding his own business, he wouldn't have seen what those messages were about.  I think it's underhanded.  Would he have exposed an affair if that had been the subject of the texts?  Would he have spilled the beans about a surprise birthday party being planned? 


ETA: there's a movie plot in this.  Oppressive regime.  Arab Spring type uprising being planned.  Person relatively high up in the planning gets their phone stolen. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 11:17:04 AM by TychaBrahe »
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PeasNCues

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2011, 11:17:16 AM »
Hm, yeah that actually does make a difference. I wasn't thinking from that direction!

So, there was nothing other than the fact that the FB group existed to motivate the sensei! Bizarre.
'I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of air.  Mind your Ps and Qs, and don't forget that you are supposed to be escaping in secret, and are still on the high-road and not very far from the Shire!' -FOTR

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JenJay

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2011, 11:22:36 AM »
I didn't take secret to mean clique, but rather "closer-knit core group of people who've been around longer and have formed a bond, doing things together outside of the main group but keeping it on the down-low so as not to hurt feelings" and they're using a facebook group, set to "secret", as a way to organize their get-togethers. If I was a noob I wouldn't have an issue with that.

I think the Sensei is completely out of line and has absolutely no right to kick people out of the group. It truly sounds like she's just feeling left out. Maybe if she'd bothered to ASK anyone what was going on they could have explained why NONE of the leaders of the group were invited. I'm super curious - what was the reaction of the lady whose phone was hacked? Because WOW would that have me making a few calls to the person/people who outrank the Sensei!!

KimberlyRose

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2011, 11:26:08 AM »
The other rule they have is not to talk about it in front of other people.

Which really does make sense.  There was thread here ages ago, in which someone mentioned that she was part of a small craft group and someone at the dog park had asked about attending.  The poster gave her a variation of "that won't be possible," and people here jumped all over her, about how she clearly had been talking about it and why had she mentioned it at all, didn't she know it was rude to mention something like that in front of people who weren't part of that group?  I don't see how this is any different.  Randomly including everyone who might be interested changes the dynamic, and not always for the better.

LadyClaire

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #69 on: October 26, 2011, 11:27:24 AM »
I didn't take secret to mean clique, but rather "closer-knit core group of people who've been around longer and have formed a bond, doing things together outside of the main group but keeping it on the down-low so as not to hurt feelings" and they're using a facebook group, set to "secret", as a way to organize their get-togethers. If I was a noob I wouldn't have an issue with that.

I think the Sensei is completely out of line and has absolutely no right to kick people out of the group. It truly sounds like she's just feeling left out. Maybe if she'd bothered to ASK anyone what was going on they could have explained why NONE of the leaders of the group were invited. I'm super curious - what was the reaction of the lady whose phone was hacked? Because WOW would that have me making a few calls to the person/people who outrank the Sensei!!

I'd have been serious ticked off, too, if the sensei had gotten into my phone to read my private messages.

It could be that the sensei actually is the owner of the club, and so there's no one above her to complain to. I'd probably quit the club of my own accord if that were the case and I found out that my personal, private messages had been read by the club owner. There's just no excuse for that. Curiosity is natural, but where someone's personal things are concerned it is way out of line to indulge in that curiosity and read something not meant for your eyes.

Yvaine

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #70 on: October 26, 2011, 11:33:23 AM »
Sorry- should have mentioned. One of the ladies from the club left her phone in the dojo after class. The Sensei took it home with her in order to return it to the group member. Its an iPhone, and messages that xyz had replied to her post were popping up. The Sensei tried a couple of pins (note to iPhone owners 2512 is not as secure as you all seem to think!) and got on the group.

Oh, and the group is not that "secret" in a nasty way- it's just how it is set on Facebook. The other rule they have is not to talk about it in front of other people.

Wow.  I already thought Sensei was way out of line, and this just pushes her over into creepy-stalker-territory as far as I'm concerned.  When people's phones now contain so much of their private life, the only way I might ever consider looking into someone's phone would be if I didn't know whose it was (i.e., found it on the street) and had no good way to find out (like, say, asking a small group that meets regularly which one of them it belonged to?)  I definitely would never try to break into a phone that the owner had locked to keep private!

Big POD. The sensei is creepy and out of line.

Visiting Crazy Town

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2011, 11:43:23 AM »
Why is secret such a bad word  I don't have a problem with it personally i don't think that everyone should know everything about everyone  else and  unless the group was going around saying  " Im part of a secret group and you can't  join :P then i don't think that it should be a problem

TychaBrahe

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #72 on: October 26, 2011, 11:47:06 AM »
This thread is making me all kinds of angry.  It's weird because I'm usually the person left out of things, and yet here I am hotheadedly defending the people's right to meet without me.  :)

The Sensei's actions are just so antithetical to who I am as a person that....

Look, I'm insanely curious.  But I know it's none of my business who's going where and doing what if they haven't filled me in on their plans.  Sometimes I'm dying to pry, but I don't, because I know it's wrong.  I can't imagine having someone else's personal property and investigating it any further than required to find out whose it is.  If I were the Sensei and had found out about those message, I'm not sure that I would be hurt, but if I were, I would be chagrined that I had found out through snooping and nosiness, and blame myself for my feelings.

And if I were the Sensei, in a sense I would be proud that I had created a community that was larger than just the instruction that I was giving out each week.

Look, today is the first National Day of the Deployed in the US.  The entire Congress and Senate voted unanimously to honor our deployed troops with a day set aside for their recognition.  A lot of people much more politically savvy than I worked very hard to make this happen.  I could name names, but they're not on EHell, so I won't bore you.

But here's the thing, about two years ago I ran into a woman on Facebook who was behind the several-years-running annual Houston Salute to the Troops.  I used the Facebook friend suggester tool to recommend her as a friend to two people in Soldiers' Angels because they are all three that type of "all hands to battle stations" women that get things done.  And I know that their collaboration is at the heart of what led to National Day of the Deployed.  So I own a small part of that.  Nothing huge.  Nothing major.  Nothing that will get awards or commendations.  But I helped make something important happen.  And I feel good about that.

Like I said in the inspirational quotes thread, one of my favorites is, "If you can't win, make the one ahead of you break the record."

Synergy is supposed to be a good thing.  People working together bringing their divergent disciplines together.  Watson and Crick.  Gilbert and Sullivan.  Jobs and Wozniak.  Who introduced those people and had a small hand in advancing science or theater or modern computing?  What the Sensei is doing is to my mind, and in my universe, just wrong.  Fundamentally, at the core wrong.
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ginlyn32

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #73 on: October 26, 2011, 11:49:08 AM »
The questions being asked are the following:

*Can a group form their own subgroup of friends?

My answer is yes. It happens many times in many large groups. There will always be times when people will seek out others with similar interests and close bonds are formed. It doesn't mean that the subgroup likes the larger group less.

*Was the Sensi wrong to ban members of the club for forming a subgroup?

Wholeheartedly, yes. As we all know, one cannot control what one wishes to do outside another person's presence.

and the additional question about the way the Sensi went about finding out about the group. To me, it doesn't really matter. But I'll answer all the same.

Yes the Sensi was wrong to go snooping in the person's phone.

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Two Ravens

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Re: Policing what members of a club do in their spare time?
« Reply #74 on: October 26, 2011, 11:55:53 AM »
*Was the Sensi wrong to ban members of the club for forming a subgroup?

Wholeheartedly, yes. As we all know, one cannot control what one wishes to do outside another person's presence.

I think in this case, the answer is yes, but I don't think you can say this is universally true.  What if the group leader found out members of a subgroup were mocking newer members?  Would it still be out of line?