Author Topic: Ex member  (Read 75947 times)

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cbcb

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #390 on: October 28, 2011, 10:01:03 AM »
[insightful commentary clipped]

This whole situation makes me really, really sad.

I agree with this, particularly the point about neither side coming out well. Frankly, I'm rather irritated that so much of the commentary is basically polarized hating on the "other side". (I know, you're not hating, you're amused, they're the haters, go fly a kite and enjoy life, etc). Let's just be honest that both sides are displaying a lot of emotion - when a mod is stating that he hopes people won't pass their toxic personalities (apparently defined at their being members of a facebook group) onto kids, then you have an emotional situation.

The posters in the group, while labelled trolls, seem to have actually been active members in the forum. Many did not seem to be involved in overt trouble-making. Yet many have been just referred to as "trolls who hate it here". That seems an oversimplification. I get that it's easier to just think of them as bad guys and bullies and start with the bannings. But I think this is a good opportunity to examine why so many long-standing posters are apparently disgruntled.

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's). I understand that it's easier to just write the complainers off as bad-eggs, but the fact that I (and I assume others) who do report still feel disgruntled about the modding practices (particularly the secrecy) I think indicates an issue. I hope that this thread remaining open is a sign that modding generally will move into being a more open and communicative practice.

I'm not as invested here as some - I rarely post about my personal life, for example. But even as a fairly unemotionally attached poster, I've been irritated at discrepancies I've seen and offensive occurrences that were overlooked (and have done the mod-approved things in response).

I also agree with hardia that I've see a lot of forum explosions and her general take.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 10:03:32 AM by cbcb »

MyFamily

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #391 on: October 28, 2011, 10:04:23 AM »
I just found this thread and I'm not going to read the entire 27 pages - I read the first page and that was enough. 

I've been thinking of leaving this board for awhile.  I haven't enjoyed it as much and have been left feeling snippy when I got off.  I couldn't pinpoint it to any one person or thing.  Now I understand why, and I'm going to stay with the hope that the board will return to what it once was.  I'm sorry to see some of the regulars leave, but life is about change and change can be a good thing. 


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Re: Ex member
« Reply #392 on: October 28, 2011, 10:23:06 AM »
I have been posting here at E Hell for a few years, off an on.  Probably more off than on.  I have made some good friends here.  I am going to out myself as a member of the private facebook group, as well (and accept my banning, should the mods feel it necessary).

At this point, everyone has formed their opinions of the other group (which was a "secret" group because of the fact that those are the facebook settings, open or secret).  And as for the requests to open the group?  I'm not comfortable with that.  I don't share the names of my children in open settings, nor do I share identifiable pictures of them in open settings.  Having a private group allows me to share my children with people I wouldn't share them with otherwise.

Did E Hell come up at the private group?  Of COURSE it did.  That's what brought the group together.  Of course E Hell would be discussed. 

Guilt by association?  OK.  Cool.  But I was bullied growing up.  If I truly felt there was bullying going on I wouldn't have stood for it.  I would have left the private group.     

Ehelldame

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #393 on: October 28, 2011, 10:26:54 AM »

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   

It stunned the mods since Jais had been a model member since 2007.  This was completely unexpected and out of what we thought was her character.   With a tiny bit of regret, the rule of the forum was upheld and she was banned without any warnings whatsoever despite the fact that she was a longstanding member with thousands of posts over the years.  On Ehell, one cannot scream profanities and wish people would die and I have no problems whatsoever publicizing people who behave this egregiously.

Quote
  I disagree about Raina's banning, considering the circumstances, but this is Miss Jeanne's house, and she has the final say of who is allowed in and who isn't. 

Raina had more commonsense to leave the group than some people.  I'm just sorry she choose to not wait for me to respond to her message and instead went public with her ban which just added to the very drama we're trying to curtail. 

Remember the scene from "Anna and the King" where Anna made a scene about the execution of a concubine?  The King angrily told her that had she not made a public spectacle he could have stayed the execution quietly and privately but having gone "public" with her objections to the execution, he was now obligated and honor bound to go forward with it.   Both Anna and the king grieved deeply over the way the events played out.    That's how I feel.  I am in an awkward position of having wanted to privately and quietly lift Raina's ban but the public spectacle before I could do that demands that I follow a rule of law.   In the midst of banning people for making drama over moderation, I can't exempt one solely on the basis of feelings.  That would be the very favoritism some people accuse the moderators of doing.  And I think Raina understand this. 


Bexx27

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #394 on: October 28, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »
I'm also concerned about an atmosphere of paranoia developing. I worry that posters will be afraid to disagree with OPs or address each other bluntly for fear of being suspected as a member of the "secret troll group." Quite honestly, if the responses to Siotehcat in the "teenagers doing chores" thread are an example of this group's "cyberbullying," I think that word does not mean what you think it means. (Not to pick on Siotehcat, and I do agree with a mod's warning posters in that thread to drop it, but I think there is a huge difference between questioning a poster's admittedly unusual stance on an issue and harrassing that poster.) I was bullied myself as a child and don't like to see bullying trivialized by applying that word to mere disagreement and bluntness. The other example mentioned in this thread, of ehellions sending friend requests, also strikes me as innocuous. I'm hardly a prominent or popular poster, but even I am FB friends with other ehellions.

My point is, I would hate to see disagreement and plain speaking become a sign of "trollhood." I appreciate it when other posters question and expose actual trolls who are playing on our emotions with made up stories. I believe that if someone posts in INAH every week about the same problem but refuses to accept any suggestions on how to fix it, we should be able to suggest that they are contributing to their own problem.
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EduardosGirl

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #395 on: October 28, 2011, 10:28:18 AM »
I would respectfully submit that the change in tone posters have noticed and are commenting on over the past few months is not caused by the FB group, but has prompted much discussion there. The change in tone is what has prompted open and private queries about trends and decisions, noticed by non-group members also. To say it is all the fault of the FB group is scapegoating.

People aren't - for the vast majority - mean girls. They are concerned with moderation decisions, random deletions and other behaviours that were politely queried and then not really addressed. There are no concerted trolling efforts, just people noticing trends on the boards and discussing them, seeing if they - as members - could do anything about them, since queries to mods and polite threads questioning went unanswered or deleted.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am a member of the Facebook group: the open and the secret one. I also do not condone bullying, but do not feel comfortable with certain decisions on the board of late. I would prefer if the group was not opened because it *does* contain so much of my information, purely through the link to my page. Not because I don't stand by my activities there. I stand by my activities here too. Neither are not shameful or hateful.

violinp

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #396 on: October 28, 2011, 10:33:48 AM »

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.
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Ehelldame

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #397 on: October 28, 2011, 10:39:05 AM »

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way. 

Ehelldame

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #398 on: October 28, 2011, 10:39:55 AM »

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

Ms_Cellany

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #399 on: October 28, 2011, 10:40:30 AM »
It tells me I don't have access. Maybe it's in an area that only mods & admins can see?
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Miss March

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #400 on: October 28, 2011, 10:41:08 AM »
Ms-Cellany is right. For me it says I don't have access to see it.
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Re: Ex member
« Reply #401 on: October 28, 2011, 10:41:13 AM »

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

It says it's missing or off limits to me.

Tigger

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #402 on: October 28, 2011, 10:41:19 AM »
It doesn't work for me either.  Thought something was wrong there for a minute  ;D


Edited because today I can't spell.




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Re: Ex member
« Reply #403 on: October 28, 2011, 10:41:50 AM »
EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

I was just about to post this.

I want to say something about this, but it's like I can't get words out. People always annoy/are annoyed by other people. That's just life. To turn it into some kind of huge explosion and drama seems... I don't know... silly?


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violinp

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #404 on: October 28, 2011, 10:42:03 AM »

 I've played by the rules since then, since I like this board very much, and appreciate that it's heavily moderated to cut down on the drama.  I've also noticed a change in tone over the past few months, but like many others couldn't quite put my finger on why.  I'm deeply saddened by the recent bannings, as I held many of them in high regard, but as another poster already said upthread, sometimes you're known by the company you keep.  If you hang out with the mean girls, people will think think you're one too, right or wrong.

I wouldn't normally do this but I think people should see an example of who is a member in that super secret group.  Jais was banned from Ehell on August 26, 2011 for this post:  http://www.etiquettehell.com/smf/index.php?topic=100731.msg2476984#msg2476984   


EhellDame, the link doesn't work.

It works for me when I click it.

It says "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." when I click. Does that help?
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter