Author Topic: Ex member  (Read 71349 times)

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Piratelvr1121

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #405 on: October 28, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »
Yeah it says the same for me too. :)
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Visiting Crazy Town

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #406 on: October 28, 2011, 10:51:30 AM »
 I will come forward I am a Member of the group and  I haven't attacked anyone or been vicious with people.

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .

 I think that a lot of you believe that we sit around making fun of posters all day an that simply isn't true at all and at the end of the day I don't think that we did a single thing wrong even if  you all do

Visiting Crazy Town

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #407 on: October 28, 2011, 10:54:01 AM »
"In response to the insistence that the FB pages were created to bash ehell - NO facebook group currently in existence was created to bash ehell – not the “official” group and not the “secret” group that people are being banned for being a part of. Furthermore, ehell isn't even the main topic of conversation. That's where we all know each other from, but it's really not what we talk about here at least. The FB pages were created because many of us had become closer friends via PM or even in the threads themselves. In order to facilitate these friendships and also have non-ehell approved conversations (ranging from sex to personal medical issues) we created a FB page. Those of us on that page have become closer, trusted friends.
And that’s important. The people on the page are our friends. Your insistence that if we had nothing to worry about, we’d let the mods and dame onto our page is ridiculous. Of course we have something to worry about – we don’t want people we don’t know, trust or (in many cases) even like looking in to our most personal conversations. That’s not their business. It’s not their FB page. They’ve got their own, they can stop trying to moderate ours.
As to the PM between one of our members and Scuba_Dog that is the main focus of evidence of the nature of our FB page - We honestly have NO IDEA why that email was sent to Scuba_Dog. Answering those questions is not a prerequisite of the group. No one else was asked those questions. All you need is a referral from a member. What one person did on their own, even if they did it under the guise of representing us, does not reflect the mindset of the intention of the group. I consider those incredibly stupid questions to ask because there is really no consensus in the group about who is a 'good' poster and who is a 'bad' poster - we don't even really talk about it much. So, to take those emails and paint the rest of us with the brush of one person we ALL disagree with in this case if wrong. It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation – why the email went down is not known to the group. Again, that was the (bad) decision of one member that does not reflect the group attitude – and I agree with you, it makes the secret group sound like a bunch of mean girls. I’ve found more love and support there and negativity, including things like getting donations together for a non- secret facebook member ehellion when she experienced a tragedy.
Several people were ousted from the group for taking comments to the extreme that we couldn’t accept. Some were just not good fits and were asked to leave for one reason or another. A couple others went off on their own – this didn’t matter to us. But what it sounds like to us is that someone that was ousted went to the Dame and started pointing fingers.
Yes, sometimes we discuss ehell. Sometimes we link to threads. But, that is not the focus or intent of the page. Sometimes we link frustrating posters or posters we find inconsistency with and wonder if they’re trolls (and discuss that amongst ourselves – what some posters may or may not do on their own in ehell really doesn’t come from the group itself). Sometimes it's links to especially interesting threads or threads with posters who we have a lot of sympathy for or even threads where we're like 'why is this worth posting' because it's so inane. But, yeah, 90% non e-hell related topics - which, again, is why it’s not the mods or Dame’s business.
Lastly, the questioning moding threads. There is a lot of insistence that people did not report the threads or contact the mods as is encouraged by ehell. Well, I know that that is what we encourage FIRST because we are not out to “get” ehell or anything. But after weeks of silence, we were getting frustrated seeing things over and over again. Nothing was being addressed. It’s interesting to note that many of the posts agreeing that there were issues in ehell were not from members of the secret facebook group.
I guess that’s all I have to say. I hope this clears things up for some people. I know there are those who will continue to think that the secret facebook group was staging some kind of revolution to dethrone the Dame and exile the mods – but that’s just silly. Why would we want to do that? Most of our members had been here for YEARS and loved it here. But, as time went on and issues started arising, most did decide to quietly step back and simply lurk, using the FB secret group to ask our questions and get hugs when we needed it. I’m truly sorry for those posters that were caught up in the drama and banned simply for being a part of the group.
- PeasNCues (banned)"

Yvaine

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #408 on: October 28, 2011, 10:54:08 AM »

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .


My comment about racism had nothing to do with the secret ehell group. It was an example from elsewhere in my life--I was talking about some trolls on a Facebook group about memories from my hometown.

I have no idea what anyone has said on the private FB group since I am not a member and first heard of it in the sensei thread.

Visiting Crazy Town

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #409 on: October 28, 2011, 11:01:53 AM »

 I don't know if it matter  or not but I am Black and we are not racist in the least there are people of all colors that are apart of the group and the truth is we  barely ever talk about Ehell we have a lot of other things that are going on and that is what we usual talk about .


My comment about racism had nothing to do with the secret ehell group. It was an example from elsewhere in my life--I was talking about some trolls on a Facebook group about memories from my hometown.

I have no idea what anyone has said on the private FB group since I am not a member and first heard of it in the sensei thread.

 NO I was talking about War Doc comments

cbcb

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #410 on: October 28, 2011, 11:03:00 AM »

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way.

I have not used the word "pet" or "favourite", but I have specifically noted individual posters to the mods using the "report post" who have a troublesome pattern of behavior leading to issues in thread. Note this these are not instances of "difference of opinion". The individuals in question would commonly fail to read with comprehension or read the thread  fully before posting, and post with vigorous anger or judgement at the OP of the thread or other posters for their own mistake. The bigger problem comes when they failed to apologize or back down when corrected. Since this behaviour continued (and still  occurs), it appears these reports were not addressed. The behaviour continues, often in the same thread, with no mod stepping in to say "hey, so-and-so, the OP addressed what you are angry about and you were mistaken".  So in the end, what I am observing is my valid complaint going unheeded or acknowledged, and another poster allowed to continue lambasting others despite clearly and demonstrably suffering under a misunderstanding of their own causing.

As the report link send a message to mods generally (as I understand it) I never knew who to follow up with to figure out why this behaviour was apparently ok.

I never wanted to describe them publicly, which is why I chose to report in the past using the "report" link. I only mention it all here to clarify that I have reported people specifically by name and their problematic tendency towards a posting style (lack of careful or complete reading, and moreover, lack of responsibility for their misreading) that disrupted threads, and have failed to see mod action correcting it.

bobsyouruncle

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #411 on: October 28, 2011, 11:09:03 AM »

I want to note that 1) I am not a member of the group, and that 2) I also have frequently done what the mods consider "proper" - reporting posts/threads and PM'ing them about decisions when I'm confused. But despite this, I've agreed with several of the critical threads that have arisen recently (e.g. LadyPekoe's).

Despite the public threads complaining of "pets" and "favoritism", not one person, either by Report link or PM, ever named a specific "pet" or "favorite".   The utter lack of specificity renders most complaints null and void.  We don't moderate based on "feelings" and if there is no tangible evidence, the mods aren't likely to moderate in a way that will satisfy those wanting people removed  simply because they rub them the wrong way.

I have not used the word "pet" or "favourite", but I have specifically noted individual posters to the mods using the "report post" who have a troublesome pattern of behavior leading to issues in thread. Note this these are not instances of "difference of opinion". The individuals in question would commonly fail to read with comprehension or read the thread  fully before posting, and post with vigorous anger or judgement at the OP of the thread or other posters for their own mistake. The bigger problem comes when they failed to apologize or back down when corrected. Since this behaviour continued (and still  occurs), it appears these reports were not addressed. The behaviour continues, often in the same thread, with no mod stepping in to say "hey, so-and-so, the OP addressed what you are angry about and you were mistaken".  So in the end, what I am observing is my valid complaint going unheeded or acknowledged, and another poster allowed to continue lambasting others despite clearly and demonstrably suffering under a misunderstanding of their own causing.

As the report link send a message to mods generally (as I understand it) I never knew who to follow up with to figure out why this behaviour was apparently ok.

I never wanted to describe them publicly, which is why I chose to report in the past using the "report" link. I only mention it all here to clarify that I have reported people specifically by name and their problematic tendency towards a posting style (lack of careful or complete reading, and moreover, lack of responsibility for their misreading) that disrupted threads, and have failed to see mod action correcting it.

I have as well.  Even worse I have seen other posters acting as if they had "invisible mod stars" bossing posters around and telling them what they could and couldn't post even worse I've seen posters accuse others of being sexual immoral or insinuating that people they consider stupid are no better than "mulch" and not deserving of respect- I've reported these posters and they are still posting. 

Ligeia

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #412 on: October 28, 2011, 11:11:14 AM »
Shay, are you quoting a PM Peas N Cues asked you to repost here?  It's a little hard to figure out (or maybe that's just me).  But I think it says some important things:

Quote
As to the PM between one of our members and Scuba_Dog that is the main focus of evidence of the nature of our FB page - We honestly have NO IDEA why that email was sent to Scuba_Dog. Answering those questions is not a prerequisite of the group. No one else was asked those questions. All you need is a referral from a member. What one person did on their own, even if they did it under the guise of representing us, does not reflect the mindset of the intention of the group. I consider those incredibly stupid questions to ask because there is really no consensus in the group about who is a 'good' poster and who is a 'bad' poster - we don't even really talk about it much. So, to take those emails and paint the rest of us with the brush of one person we ALL disagree with in this case if wrong. It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation – why the email went down is not known to the group. Again, that was the (bad) decision of one member that does not reflect the group attitude – and I agree with you, it makes the secret group sound like a bunch of mean girls. I’ve found more love and support there and negativity, including things like getting donations together for a non- secret facebook member ehellion when she experienced a tragedy.

I didn't have any idea that the FB group even existed until I read this thread, but I think I'm going to side with them: it seems like a lot of people have been unfairly banned simply for being members of that group.  It seems, indeed, that the mods (and posters in this thread) are using that decidedly mean-girlish PM from Wry Exchange as evidence of some sort of troll conspiracy--even though, as many members of the FB group have said, the purpose of the group was not to bash Ehell and that PM was not indicative of the tone of the forum nor the usual way members were recruited.  Undoubtedly there were members of the group who wanted to stir up trouble, but that's true of any group, anywhere. 

Yeah, the mods can ban whomever they want for whatever reason, since it's a privately owned forum. Still, I think it's a legitimate criticism: what members of the forum do on other sites shouldn't be the business of the mods here. 

I can't believe how many intelligent, helpful posters have been banned, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it's all a bit unfair.  If there's other evidence of a troll conspiracy besides that PM which other members of the group have denounced, I wish we could see it.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 11:34:01 AM by Ligeia »

Xallanthia

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #413 on: October 28, 2011, 11:13:03 AM »
For the most part, people have already expressed what I would have expressed had I written a longer post, or stayed up all night last night, so I'll just say a few things.

1) I agree with Aeris. 

2) I was concerned before I went to bed last night that this thread had vanished, and was planning to back off from ehell as a result, because I thought it had been deliberately deleted and that the legitimate concerns of some were being ignored.  I am glad to see that it was never intended to simply wipe the disagreement off the map, but rather a mod hoping to deal with an unusual situation, who hadn't known the rest.  I am very glad it is open again today.  I fully expect it to be locked if (probably when) the discussion proceeds beyond usefulness.

3) I am having the same issue as everyone else with the Dame's link.

LadyL

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #414 on: October 28, 2011, 11:15:25 AM »
After hearing from several of the secret group members on this thread, all I can say is it seems like a few of your members ruined it for all of you. That stinks, and I'm sorry. I hope that some of you will contest your bans because I know some of you have positive, non-controversial posting histories here.

That said, Shay - apparently War Doc and the other mods have receive some really, really nasty reactions in PMs from group members who've been banned. That certainly doesn't engender the mods to give other group members benefit of the doubt. Someone claiming to be a secret FB group member posted a really nasty, expletive filled, hateful post in this thread (since deleted, but you can see their username in the quote tree from some of my posts, if you're curious). Again, it doesn't give much credibility to the claims that the group was a neutral force. Even if 90% of the group content was benign, that other 10% sounds like it was pretty nasty, and violated the Ehell TOS and possible the FB TOS (which also prohibits harassment).

There is no good solution :(. I would like to believe that those deserving bans are "extremists" in the context of the larger membership of the secret group. I really don't want to believe THAT many ehell members are actually nasty pieces of work.

PurpleFrog

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #415 on: October 28, 2011, 11:18:16 AM »
The more names that come out the more shocked I am. Ehell is deffinatly going to be very different without many of these prominent posters. Although I'll admit to a feeling relief every so often when a poster I enjoy reading pops up.

Cbcb & ladyrake: As I recall in one of the moderation threads it was suggested that if a poster is showing a worrying pattern of behaviour across many threads then the best response is to PM a mod as more details can be given. I'm sorry I cant link I'm on my phone.
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violinp

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #416 on: October 28, 2011, 11:20:17 AM »
After hearing from several of the secret group members on this thread, all I can say is it seems like a few of your members ruined it for all of you. That stinks, and I'm sorry. I hope that some of you will contest your bans because I know some of you have positive, non-controversial posting histories here.

That said, Shay - apparently War Doc and the other mods have receive some really, really nasty reactions in PMs from group members who've been banned. That certainly doesn't engender the mods to give other group members benefit of the doubt. Someone claiming to be a secret FB group member posted a really nasty, expletive filled, hateful post in this thread (since deleted, but you can see their username in the quote tree from some of my posts, if you're curious). Again, it doesn't give much credibility to the claims that the group was a neutral force. Even if 90% of the group content was benign, that other 10% sounds like it was pretty nasty, and violated the Ehell TOS and possible the FB TOS (which also prohibits harassment).

There is no good solution :(. I would like to believe that those deserving bans are "extremists" in the context of the larger membership of the secret group. I really don't want to believe THAT many ehell members are actually nasty pieces of work.

POD. And even if an overwhelming majority was peaceful, the ones who were not made everything go really, really bad.  :( It stinks for everyone.
"It takes a great deal of courage to stand up to your enemies, but even more to stand up to your friends" - Harry Potter


MariaE

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #417 on: October 28, 2011, 11:21:13 AM »
Also, as EhellDame stated somewhere - it wasn't just based on the PMs, but also some information about a chat/thread on or around June 30th. She hasn't shared the details of that chat, but it definitely wasn't the PMs alone.
 
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Scuba_Dog

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #418 on: October 28, 2011, 11:22:28 AM »
It’s also important to note that Scuba_Dog sought the private facebook group out and the group decided to extend her an invitation –

No, I didn't.  I expressed my displeasure with the currect direction of the forum, a fact that I have not hidden.  I agreed with many of the sentiments that this particular person posted in a thread, and I thought perhaps, based on that post, she and others were starting a forum, not some weird secret club that I had to answer goofy middle school questions to see if I would "fit in".

That PM conversation was with a DIFFERENT poster than Wry Exchange.  I did not ask her about any kind of secret facebook club.

I never solicited the PM I got from Wry Exchange. 

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Dragonflymom

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Re: Ex member
« Reply #419 on: October 28, 2011, 11:23:19 AM »
This is all making me really sad.   :'(

It definitely explains some of the piling on and general nastiness I've seen crop up recently that has been so upsetting and kept me from posting much.  It does seem a lot like "mean girls" in school, which I had hoped was a long gone chapter in my life.

I had no idea about the group, just noticed a lot of general weird random meanness often targeted at specific posters which I tried to report when it seemed obvious enough, but some threads just left me with a vague feeling of ickiness that didn't really seem like there was anything specific to report.

I never got asked to join or contacted by any members.  I guess I'm too boring.  Or maybe I'm too unstable.   >:D

*hugs* to the mods and EhelllDame for having to deal with all this mess.
"By swallowing evil goats unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach"  Winston Churchill