how do we tell him?

[kat_grl]

Not sure what folder to put this in (but VERY happy the forum is back up and running!)
I sing with a group that is an offshoot of my church choir. Our choir director started and sings in the group. One man has weaselled his way into the group. To this day I don't know how he got into the group as he wasn't invited (we're a group of 8 and were all invited to sing with the group).
He has been hassling our director for a solo. Not only in the group but with the choir as well. Our director doesn't audition solos, she chooses people based on the type of song we're singing and if their voice suits.
The thing is, he can't really sing. He's flat and he has no rhythm. She's been trying to figure out how to let him down as she doesn't want him doing a solo. When we started this group, we agreed that it was our ministry and that all the songs we sing should bring glory to God and that no one person should stand out (yes, we occasionally do solos if the song calls for it, but generally we sing together). So how do we tell him that he can't sing without hurting his feelings? I think we should just let him do one and let him crash and burn on his own, but then it makes us look bad and, to be honest, wouldn't be very nice on our part. 

[kat_grl]

Thanks for the advise! I love the fact that i can always come here to get advise. I'll try both of these (or at least pass them along to our choir director!)

[mbbored]

I would sit him down, and explain that as he's new to the group, he should understand how things work.  Tell him that it's for the glory of God, and that nobody really should stand out. Say that with time, maybe a piece will come up that will require a solo in his range.  It's possible that he will improve with time, as a group you can work on rhythm and pitch.  And one more thing, if it is for the glory of God, then it shouldn't matter how it sounds.  My choir director says that singing is praying twice: both using the words, and offering up the talent of the voice God gave you.  Since God gave him that voice, he won't care if it's flat or right on key.

[ButterflieRJ]

I agree with what housewife2k said, especially the second part.  Allowing him to remain in the group could cause other members to either drop out because it's no longer what it was supposed to be, or it could cause others to bring others and downgrade the quality of the group.  Perhaps explaining the "rules" of the group to the group as a whole (and even setting some specifics in place, particularly regarding who can be invited in in the future and how it should be done) would also be a good idea--chances are he heard from someone else who's there and decided to invite himself.

And I POD the coming here for advice part too

[kat_grl]

And one more thing, if it is for the glory of God, then it shouldn't matter how it sounds.  My choir director says that singing is praying twice: both using the words, and offering up the talent of the voice God gave you.  Since God gave him that voice, he won't care if it's flat or right on key.

That's very true. It is to the Glory of God so it doesn't matter how it sounds....but when we sing in public i don't really think that the public wants to hear us all off key

[stanthedevil]

And one more thing, if it is for the glory of God, then it shouldn't matter how it sounds.  My choir director says that singing is praying twice: both using the words, and offering up the talent of the voice God gave you.  Since God gave him that voice, he won't care if it's flat or right on key.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on your last point, at least partially.  Yes, it is for the glory of God, but at the same time a group that performs for others or leads worship has a responsibility to sing at a certain level.  I've learned over the years that it can really disrupt other people's prayer if the group responsible for leading worship isn't together vocally.  It can be especially difficult for new people in the congregation to participate in the songs if they aren't sung well.  It is a fine line to walk and must be tread carefully. 

Perhaps there is another ministry that he feels called to or another group he can be a part of where his voice won't adversely effect the sound of the group?

[kat_grl]

Perhaps there is another ministry that he feels called to or another group he can be a part of where his voice won't adversely effect the sound of the group?

He is in 3 different singing groups and has complained to all 3 of them that he's not getting solos (2 of them are ours another is another worship ministry)

[freakyfemme]

Well, if this guy is obviously interested in singing, I wouldn't actively discourage him by basically telling him he stinks (which is what "you're not at the level of the rest of the group" basically means, even though it may be true).  I'd avoid pieces that present solo opportunities for his range, as one poster suggested, and maybe recommend a private voice teacher, not in a mean way, but in an "I had a lot of success taking lessons with so-and-so," type of way.  I don't sing seriously myself, outside of the university choir, but I've played the clarinet for eight years (closer to nine by the time I graduate), and I've been both in the position of being the "underdog" (since I was always way too ambitious), and more recently, in the position of being the.....umm......not-the-underdog, and sometimes as the not-the-underdog, when people ask, you have to tell the truth, not in a brutal way, but in a TRUE way.  If someone came up to me and told me they wanted to take lessons at Bishop's, with my teacher, and that person had no rhythm, crummy air support, and played on a plastic Yamaha clarinet with Rico reeds, well, I'd probably have to tell them straight up that they'd almost certainly have trouble here.

[Athos_000]

I agree with the others who recommended explaining that this choir is for the "glory of God" and not to promote individuals. If he is bugging all three church choirs he is involved in to get solos, I think he may be missing the point.

[Slartibartfast]

It seems like every singing group has at least one of these people - they join because they love to sing, or their spouse is in the group, or they sing a part that the director was really desperate for ten years ago and finally let them join, and they just don't get it.  In my experience, these people tend to have somewhat decent voices - they project well (sing loudly), have confidence that they're singing the right part - and don't blend with everyone else.  The director either has to just ignore it, give them lots of solos and try the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" attitude, or find a way to shunt them off to a less-demanding choir.

Yes, sometimes the music is "for the glory of god" - but it's a heckuva lot easier to get into a glorying mood when the tenors are all on pitch, for both the ensemble and the congregation/audience.

There may not be much the OP can do, since she's not the director. However, if I were the director, I would tell the truth - the group doesn't do a whole lot of solos, but when there are solo parts, the director picks a singer based on their voice type and the type of song.  So far, none of the solo parts have been right for this man.  (The director doesn't have to say that there will never be solos for this guy, but it's better than saying "we don't do solos" and then forcing yourself to be choral-only until this guy quits!)

[freakyfemme]

I agree with the others who recommended explaining that this choir is for the "glory of God" and not to promote individuals. If he is bugging all three church choirs he is involved in to get solos, I think he may be missing the point.

Pod.  So, maybe the members of the group could start talking up the Blahblah Community Secular Singers or something, as well as the private voice lessons, so the solo-seeker could a) improve his singing, and b) join a group where he'd be more likely to be given an opportunity to sing a solo, just because of the nature of the group.

[Lisbeth]

Could the group possibly record him doing a solo (with just group members present) and then play it back for him and ask him what he thinks?  Many people often think their singing voices are better than they actually are.

If he still wants to do a solo after that, I'd try to let him down gently but firmly, as in: "I'm sorry, John, but we aren't doing solos."

[JudiAU]

mbbored had a very good response. You can have that type of conversation with him once, maybe twice, and if it continues you might need to ask him to resign.

[ZipTheWonder]

Why not express your concerns to the Choir Director and let her handle this?  She is probably the one who should both make the decision and inform him that he's been asked to leave the choir.

Is there anyone in the group who would be willing to offer to coach him? 

[FoxPaws]

He is in 3 different singing groups and has complained to all 3 of them that he's not getting solos

Sounds like what he really needs is an audition with American Idol.