Author Topic: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long) RESOLUTION #27  (Read 6076 times)

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cicero

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 06:23:55 AM »
I don't know- w hile i can see both sides of this, i still think that the Turkey is just a red herring.

i still think that Mom shouldn't be threatening to force feed her 26 YO daughter - whatever the reason behind her not wanting to eat the turkey is. you just don't do that ! daughter isn't saying "you either make me an organic free range turkey or i'm not coming/eating". she's saying "this is my belief. I don't have a problem eating the sides and not having turkey". MOM is the one who has a problem.

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Venus193

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2011, 07:12:41 AM »
this is above and beyond the turkey. your mom thinks believes that she can force feed her 26 YO daughter, and if said daughter doesnt' agree then mom will sulk and throw a hissy fit?

and your DS wants to know what to do?

Your DS needs to be a grown up. if mom wants to manipulate - let her try. you can't manipulate someone who won't let themselves be manipulated. this week it's turkey, next week will be something else. DS should say "mom, i'm not eating turkey. I will be happy to come over on t-giving but if the turkey issue is going to be a problem, then I and BF will be [elsewhere]." and if they go and the turkey issue comes up - then they leave.

*you* need to stay far far away from this.

I agree with this.  Per the bolded, the turkey is just the tip of the iceberg. 

Mental health and peace of mind trumps DNA.  If your mother wants to prepare and serve turkey, are there other people she can invite to share the holiday with her?

WillyNilly

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2011, 07:25:18 AM »
I think your sister should just thank your mom for the invitation and decline. Short and simple "you know mom, I really appreciate the offer for a traditional Thanksgiving but its just not going to work out for me. I'd like to take you out for your birthday though, are you available the 18th or 19th for dinner?"

If mom pushes T-day and the turkey issue, sister should calmly keep control by stating "we are not going to agree on this unless you are willing to flex. I think its simpler to just skip it this year." And then repeat as neccesary "mom there is nothing to discuss."

RandomAngel

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2011, 07:54:50 AM »
So..."there are some traditions you just don't break." But if your sister doesn't give in then your mother won't have them over for Thanksgiving, and she'll do...what? We know that she considers turkey for one unacceptable, so how is not having Thanksgiving dinner at all MORE traditional than ignoring our loved ones' little quirks on special occasions?

For you, OP: I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. Seriously. Hang up if one of them tries to talk to you about it.

As a general remark on the etiquette of the situation: I could barely read past "hostess issued an invitation contingent on guest eating an ingredient she finds objectionable." That's just so far beyond the pale that none of the maneuvering and negotiating that followed even really registered for me. There are certainly etiquette-approved solutions to this problem, but they all depend on either 1) all involved parties behaving rationally, or 2) the wronged party being willing to accept damage to the relationship as fallout. It doesn't sound like either of those conditions apply, so...like I said: stay away.

The703

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2011, 09:26:33 AM »
I agree with another PP that your mom can get a turkey breast and go on with the dinner. If she won't do a turkey breast then I would suggest DS declines. If DM was interested in repairing the relationship this whole issue wouldn't be happening.



Slartibartfast

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2011, 10:02:35 AM »
"Sorry, mom, BF and I won't be eating turkey on Thanksgiving.  If that means you don't want us at your house, I understand."

Spoder

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2011, 10:49:23 AM »
I agree with another PP that your mom can get a turkey breast and go on with the dinner. If she won't do a turkey breast then I would suggest DS declines. If DM was interested in repairing the relationship this whole issue wouldn't be happening.
[/b]

I dunno, this seems to be speculation to me. How can we possibly know that? The OP has already said that her mother has been under a lot of emotional stress.

ClaireC79

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2011, 11:24:28 AM »
Mom's had a rough year.

Where does it say the mother's had a rough year, her husband died in 2008, yes I'm sure she still misses him but it's been three years and this time of year is tough because it's close to his birthday and her birthday - it's going to be close to the birthdays forever, this year wasn't tougher than last year

Mental Magpie

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2011, 12:16:03 PM »
Whew.  I didn't think this was going to generate so much discussion like this.  I will try to address everything, but if I miss something, please let me know.

DS is a flexitarian, it's just easier to say vegetarian because people know what it means.  This is a good explanation: http://vegetarian.about.com/od/glossary/f/flexitarian.htm

It was her compromise with the free range, organic turkey from a farm within a 100 mile proximity.  Like I said, she is a flexitarian for environmental reasons, so eating mass produced meat is against in what she believes; free range organic, is not.  When it comes to the vegetables in other peoples homes, she couldn't care less where from they came (mass produced vs organic), but she tries to buy as much organic, locally grown stuff for herself as she can.  DM said, "You will eat turkey!" so DS said, "Okay, but only if!"  DS was trying to compromise with mom in a way that was acceptable to both of them, not one appeasing the other.

DM has had other invitations for Thanksgiving, so if she doesn't cook for DS and BF, she would be going to someone else's house. 

The turkey is certainly a red herring.  DM likes to have control, and when she starts to lose is (ie: this month being particularly difficult), she seems to clamp down harder.

This is definitely a precedent setting issue; I do not see any outcome where DM would not down the road say, "Yeah, but you ate that turkey at Thanksgiving!" because that's just how DM is.

I think the best bet is to get DS to ensure that she gets the organic, free range turkey, to put that onus on her so that everything is a compromise.  "DM, like I said, I will only eat the turkey if it's free range, organic, so I've gone to the trouble of getting it so that you don't have to worry about it.  If you don't want that, maybe we can get you just a turkey breast so that you're not cooking an entire turkey for just one."

Thanks, everyone, for trying to help me find a happy medium for the both of them.  So far, DS is the only one that has called me.  DM doesn't talk to anyone when she's upset.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

The703

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2011, 01:16:28 PM »
I agree with another PP that your mom can get a turkey breast and go on with the dinner. If she won't do a turkey breast then I would suggest DS declines. If DM was interested in repairing the relationship this whole issue wouldn't be happening.
[/b]

I dunno, this seems to be speculation to me. How can we possibly know that? The OP has already said that her mother has been under a lot of emotional stress.

Well, when most people are trying to repair a relationship they don't make ultimatums like the one DM made to her daughter. Control freak or not. Sure, it's a rough time of year but that doesn't excuse the behavior.  I also think that DS is trying to compromise with the free range bird. Hopefully that will solve the issue and everyone can have a nice Thanksgiving together.



Smitty

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2011, 02:34:51 PM »
Surely your mother could find just turkey breasts or other portions if she's so hell-bent on it.

Exactly. I wouldn't cook a whole turkey for one person, but there are lots of options available like stuffed turkey breasts this time of year for people who want the turkey experience without dealing with a whole bird.

As someone who also prefers to only eat free-range, grass-fed, organic and local meat, I know exactly how difficult it can be to find and how expensive it is. I would not expect someone hosting me to follow my same standards.

I think there are 2 good options available: 1. Mom prepares a smaller turkey dish just for the people who want it, or 2. DS purchases the kind of turkey she is willing to eat.

immadz

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long)
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2011, 02:36:40 PM »
Surely your mother could find just turkey breasts or other portions if she's so hell-bent on it.

Exactly. I wouldn't cook a whole turkey for one person, but there are lots of options available like stuffed turkey breasts this time of year for people who want the turkey experience without dealing with a whole bird.

As someone who also prefers to only eat free-range, grass-fed, organic and local meat, I know exactly how difficult it can be to find and how expensive it is. I would not expect someone hosting me to follow my same standards.

I think there are 2 good options available: 1. Mom prepares a smaller turkey dish just for the people who want it, or 2. DS purchases the kind of turkey she is willing to eat.

or option 3: They celebrate thanksgiving without each other and take this time to establish boundaries.


Mental Magpie

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long) UPDATE #23
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2011, 10:46:27 PM »
Option 4 is apparently what they choose.  I was very surprised to hear that they had spoken of it again and that both of them had calmed down enough to talk civilly.  Long story short, they're going out to eat Wednesday night and on Thursday night are volunteering in a soup kitchen and DM will eat her turkey with the people there.  I think this is the best way for them to do it.
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.

apple

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long) RESOLUTION #27
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2011, 11:06:25 PM »
I'm so glad there was a happy solution to this dilemma!

And I'm impressed that they worked this out together.  :)

Thanks for the update.


Mental Magpie

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Re: Vegetarians, Thanksgiving, and Control (long) RESOLUTION #27
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2011, 01:22:01 AM »
I'm so glad there was a happy solution to this dilemma!

And I'm impressed that they worked this out together.  :)

Thanks for the update.

I'm impressed, too!  From what DS tells me, it was a very calm and understanding conversation.  I don't know how those two go from irrational to reasonable adults so quickly (not that DS was being irrational in this instance, but in other instances she has been...they really are a lot alike).

What I personally really like about this solution is that other people benefit, too :D
The problem with choosing the lesser of two evils is that you're still choosing evil.