Kids and Wine

[cattlekid]

My sister and I went to several wineries while on vacation with my parents when we were anywhere from 10-12 years old on up.  We always enjoyed the tours of the wineries and were happy to have grape juice and snack on crackers while Mom and Dad were doing the tasting.  But then again, we were serious kids and knew that we were going to be in heaps o' trouble if we didn't behave.

[kherbert05]

Attitudes and laws are going to vary widely across the US. Here is a map of wet and dry counties in Texas. http://blue.utb.edu/paullgj/geog3320/Lectures/wet-dry-05.gif The partially dry counties often are that way because of charters of one or two towns. (Example Harris county is partially dry. A city called the Heights had in its charter that it was dry. The Heights was annexed by Houston in 1912. To go wet they would have leave Houston and change its charter. Not going to happen. Instead the restaurants in the area are "private" clubs that you join to be served drinks.


In Texas the further north you go the more likely that the whole county is dry because you are getting into the bible belt.


We also have BARS/Nightclubs that are restricted to over 21.


There are also bars/ice houses/beer gardens/dance halls that welcome families. http://www.riverroadicehouse.com/ http://www.cridersrodeo.com/location.html Actually I've seen two varieties of SS tourists at these places - the ones that were shocked kids were there and expressed their displeasure at the fact people would bring their brats (their word) to this adult venue.    Criders actually has 2 rodeo events that kids can sign up for that night.


Then there are the ones that were told it was a great place to take their kids and were shocked people were drinking and dancing. I remember one time this woman blew her top and knocked one of my cousins down dragging her kids off the dance floor. Of course we were doing the Cotton Eye Joe - the real version not the sanitized school version. (My school version was saying bull word with C instead of bull word with S so not really that clean)


I tried to find a video of the Cotton Eye Joe - but couldn't find the version I grew up with the dancers responding to the caller's comments.

[Dindrane]

I think one of the biggest factors with the drinking age and with general attitudes towards alcohol in the United States is because of the fact that most people live in areas where driving is a necessity.  Outside of a few large cities with good public transportation, most people rely on their own cars for transportation.

One of the biggest differences I've seen between the US and particularly Europe is that the driving age here is 16 while the drinking age is 21.  It's not quite the reverse in Europe, but it almost is -- most people there can legally drink before they can legally drive, and I imagine that plus viable public transportation options for most people make drunk driving less common.

But in the United States, raising the driving age would actually make life very difficult for a lot of people, so in an effort to prevent drunk driving, the drinking age was raised instead.  I don't know how successful it has been in preventing drunk driving, but I'm fairly certain that was a large portion of the logic behind raising the drinking age a few decades ago.

[Weez]

One of the biggest differences I've seen between the US and particularly Europe is that the driving age here is 16 while the drinking age is 21.  It's not quite the reverse in Europe, but it almost is -- most people there can legally drink before they can legally drive, and I imagine that plus viable public transportation options for most people make drunk driving less common.

Actually, in most countries in Europe you can legally drive at 17 or 18 and legally purchase drink at 18; in most countries it's legal to drink in private before 18.   I'm sure there are better sources, but for speed (ok, and laziness!) I've used Wikipedia.  Also, in many areas here, public transport isn't great either.  If you live in an urban area, then you probably have access to reasonable public transport, but not in rural areas - which much of Europe is!

Digging a bit further, I came across an article on road safety from the European Commission.  Interestingly, their research found that age was not a factor in drink-driving.

That report also has a summary of drinking habits in EU countries, which confirms the North/South divide in drinking habits: in the North of Europe, people will drink on fewer occasions but will 'binge drink', while in the Southern countries people will drink more often, but don't 'binge drink' ('binge drinking' defined as drinking more than the equivalent of 1 bottle of wine per day).


Thinking about it, and this is purely my own guess (so is quite probably wrong!), the attitude towards alcohol in the US reflects American culture, in that as a nation, America appears to be more conservative than much of Europe.  For example, movies which would be an '15' (only suitable for those aged 15 years or older) rating here, may be 'NC-17' in the US.  More extreme TV shows, like True Blood or Dexter are shown on select cable channels, while they're on mainstream channels here in the UK. 

<Disclaimer> This is purely conjecture, based on my experience as a Brit, who has only been to America once (Orlando) and the impression I get from news coverage and popular entertainment and culture.  Plus E-hell of course!</Disclaimer>

[Dindrane]

It appears I'm wrong about the legality of driving, then.  However, it was so common as to be unremarkable for people I knew in the US to start driving as soon as they were legally able to.  Most people I knew when I was 16 had access to a car, even if they did not own one.  A majority of people I knew in college owned a car.  I don't think I know anybody now without one.  When I spent a semester abroad in Ireland, I knew very few people who drove -- either because they did not yet know how, or because they had no reasonable access to a car.  Even for the students who were coming from more rural parts of Ireland, driving was just not something they did much of.

[dietcokeofevil]

I don't have a problem with drinking alcohol around kids.  I even offer my kids a taste as my parents did for me.  And just like it was for me, they don't really care for the taste.  I do believe it takes a little bit of the forbidden aspect of it away and make it just a thing that some people like and some people don't.

However, I wouldn't take my kids to a wine tasting.  It's less about their exposure to alcohol and more about my wanting to enjoy an evening with just adults.   With my 4 year old I would be focusing more attention on him than on just enjoying the wine.  My 10 year old would be fine keeping herself entertained, but the whole way home she'd be asking me to explain all the comments that she had overheard and didn't understand.

[Weez]

Most people I knew when I was 16 had access to a car, even if they did not own one.  A majority of people I knew in college owned a car.  I don't think I know anybody now without one. 

That, however, could be a good point.  Although you could pass your driving test, and be legal to drive at 17, very few 17-year olds here will have their own car, or could afford the insurance to drive it legally.  They may have access to a car (e.g. a parent's car) but that may be dependent on whether the car was needed - or even the whim of the parent!

There is definitely a higher accident rate with younger drivers and there are regular debates on how to improve that.  Suggested options usually include imposing a set period after passing the driving test during which a new driver can't drive after dark (bit awkward here in Scotland, where it gets dark at 3pm in winter!) or stopping new drivers from driving with more than 1 passenger (the belief is that more passengers = more distractions and more peer pressure to drive faster). 

Interestingly, raising the drinking age is not usually suggested as a solution to the accident rate amongst younger drivers.  Drink-driving rates have fallen in recent years but it is still an issue and we have regular anti drink-driving campaigns (especially at this time of year), but they aren't aimed at any particular age-group.

I don't have a problem with drinking alcohol around kids.  I even offer my kids a taste as my parents did for me.  And just like it was for me, they don't really care for the taste.  I do believe it takes a little bit of the forbidden aspect of it away and make it just a thing that some people like and some people don't.

That's exactly how my parents were with me and how I plan to be with my kids.  Alcohol wasn't a forbidden substance - it just didn't taste good, so I didn't want it!  I do think part of the problem with binge drinking here in the UK is that some alcohol is too pleasant tasting.  Most beers, wine and spirits are acquired tastes and you can 'educate your palate', whereas some alcopops are like drinking fruit juice.   That's fine on occasion, as long as you know your limits as they can be surprisingly high in alcohol.

[Aggiesque]

My parents never really drank. We never had it in the house (looking back, I think it just never made the budget LOL). No religious reason, we just never had the stuff around. My parents never made a big deal about it.

I never had any until I was 21... 3 weeks after my bday. I had some mixed drink with dinner. I wasn't impressed, and DH and I don't drink except the rare occasion. We had his company party at a winery, so we had wine with all the courses, but I'm still not very impressed. I'm much happier drinking water/juice(I don't drink cokes). Still have no idea what the lure of alcohol is... it all tastes gross to me.

[gramma dishes]

When our kids were really little, their Daddy would go out with them and pull them around on our sled after the first snow.  When they came in he would pour about four drops of Peppermint Schnapps into a little cordial glass -- just barely enough to cover the bottom of the glass -- and let them have that as a special "first snow of this winter" treat. 

I would be afraid to do that today.  It was something they still remember fondly, but I think today I'd be paralyzed with fear if there was a knock on the door.  I'd be sure it was somebody from DCFS coming to confiscate my kids because we were such appallingly bad parents.  After all, we let our children taste liquor!   

I think the U.S. is actually going way overboard on the whole thing and I think there are many cases where it has backfired.  Having said that though, I wouldn't take my kids to a wine tasting simply because I agree with those who consider it an adult event, not because I think they shouldn't be exposed to seeing people drinking wine responsibly.

[katycoo]

In Australia, Minors are note allowed in the actual bar of a pub, but are able to eat in the bistro.

Allowing a minor to drink in a private residence is not illegal, but as in the UK there is a massive bringe drinking culture so its less common that children attend alcohol related functions.  I would think it very odd to see young children at a wine tasting event.

[cabbagegirl28]

There are some states in the U.S. that do allow children to drink, as long as they are in their house, and their parents are the ones serving (can't be any other relative, I think). The reason for it is religious reasons, from what I've heard.

[Sophia]

It isn't universal that parents in the U.S. never allow their kids to drink.  I believe that where I live parents are allowed to order alcohol for their kids.   

When I was very young we lived in a house with a basement and my father made wine.  He even mushed the grapes.  I frequently got a taste (less than a Tablespoon) of wine with dinner.  In fact one of the favorite family stories is of me saying of Beaujolais, "It tastes like Rose', but it has a more heartful flavor."  I was 4.  Mom liked Rose', so he made it mostly.  The Beaujolais was a purchased bottle. 

[Portugal79]

Because my parents knew, with 3 older siblings i would be introduced to booze at an early age, they would give me sips of wine on occasions to desentise my body to it,  and so when i did turn 18 (even though i was drinking cider from the age of 14), i wasn't much of a drinker...not to say i haven't had wild nights (i have) but i can still have a good time without getting drunk

[sammycat]

Still have no idea what the lure of alcohol is... it all tastes gross to me.

I'm totally on the same page. 

My dad always had a crate of beer of in the garage, for whatever reason.  Once, when I was 7**, I snuck a sip of beer from one of the bottles...  it was the most disgusting thing I've ever tasted, and, over 30 years later I've never been tempted to drink another beer. 

We also had a liquor cabnet in the lounge room.  After my first little escapade, I was never ever tempted to try any of it. 

I once downed a large glass of vodka and orange juice on a particularly turbulent aeroplane ride where I thought we were going to die.  It tasted awful, but I do occasionally partake on flights.  Other than that, I abhor the taste of alcohol and don't bother with it.

** That was the same week I had my first and only taste of coffee - never again!  I also gorged myself on coconut ice one night that week and was violently ill.  Haven't had that again since either.  Obviously not a good week for me food/drink wise.

[saki]

I think Americans often exaggerate the extent to which Europeans don't drive/use public transport.  I just looked it up out of curiosity and 75% of UK residents own a car, as compared with 95% of Americans.  So, there is more car ownership in the US but not by a huge extent - the clear majority of British people own cars.  If you visit a more rural area of the UK absolutely everyone will own a car and they will start driving as soon as possible.  Even where I grew up - a small city - virtually everyone in my year at school learned to drive as soon as possible.

I think the difference in car ownership is more about urban/rural than anything else - a higher proportion of the UK lives in a big city than in the US and you don't need to own a car in a big city.  I think the differences in car usage  - definitely, British people are less inclined to use cars for small trips (would rather walk) and very long trips (would rather take the train) - are down to the cost of petrol and the fact that British towns and cities were not designed for cars so the traffic can be absolutely awful.

On alcohol, the big difference that I notice between the US and the UK (and I think much of Northern Europe is similar) is that it's quite common for Americans just not to drink alcohol - not particularly for religious reasons (though that's more common too), they just don't drink.  In the UK, virtually everyone drinks, it's really uncommon to be teetotal (unless you're Muslim or a strict Hindu/Buddist), and even when teetotallers have parties, they provide alcohol.  I don't think I have ever been to a party or to dinner at someone else's house (except for some of the stricter Hindus in my family) and not been offered alcohol.