children - how much noise is too much?

[wetblanket]

I just know this is going to stir everyone up... but...

If a family with small children lives in an apartment, with neighbours above, below and beside them, should there be any limits on how much noise they can make and when?  Should they be allowed to make more noise than other tenants because they have children?

Is having kids a free pass to make all the noise you want?

Or if there should be limits, what should they be?

[MsEva]

I think that the children should pretty much be held to the same expectations as adults. No loud noises from 10PM-8AM. Never any noise that is so disturbing that the neighbors have to turn up their TV or stereo just so they can hear them. Children can be taught the proper way to behave - I always made exceptions if the child was sick or it was a baby that cried. I did request that if my neighbor above me had to walk the floors at night that she do it anywhere but her bedroom which was right over mine. She thought I was evil until she moved to the first floor and found out that the building was put together with spit and kleenex. And, yes, I could hear everything she did. 

[CocoCamm]

Should they be allowed to make more noise than other tenants because they have children?

Absolutely not.

Is having kids a free pass to make all the noise you want?

Once again, absolutely not! If you live in an apartment then you have to be respectful of the volume of the noise you are making. I have 2 big dogs in an apartment. I dont allow them to go buck wild constantly and make all sorts of noise. Thats not to say they have to be silent either, I think there is a happy medium. I have been able to find it w/ 2 dogs I think people should be able to manage w/ their kids.

Or if there should be limits, what should they be?

1) No running, yelling ,screaming or general noisiness before 8am during the week and 10am on weekends. No running, yelling, screaming or general nosiness after 9pm.

Of course this is all relative as to how the sound travels in the apartment and how sensitive your neighbors are. In general I think the rule above is acceptable although I wouldnt be happy being woken up at 10am every weekend and 8 during the week, EVERY SINGLE TIME!

[Lisbeth]

Unless the children are sick or they are very small (let's say under 2), I think it is fair to expect everyone in the family, regardless of age, to keep the noise down from about 9pm to 7am during the week and 10pm to 9am on weekends and holidays.

By this, I mean:
1) No screaming
2) No TVs or music at top volume (should not be louder than normal conversational tones)
3) No loud bangs, running motors, or moving large items
4) Walking quietly (no stomping or wearing noisy footwear-normal walking noise is reasonable)

[FoxPaws]

A lot of parents become desensitized to the amount of noise their kids make, and really aren't aware of how loud it actually sounds. Except in the case of infants, I think children and their parents need to be made aware of when they are being too noisy. The concept of "indoor voice" needs to be taught as soon as the kid becomes verbal.

Also, if either party - the noisemakers or the noise hearers - are new to apartment living, they may not have realistic expectations about acceptable noise levels. I've lived in an apartment for over 20 years, and I don't hear anything anymore unless it's way out of the ordinary. I also know how loud I can turn my TV and music, and not to vacuum before 7:00am or after 10:00pm, and not to slam doors. When my sister moved to an apartment after decades of living in duplexes and houses she could hear her "noisy neighbors" dropping a tissue on the carpet.

[Gileswench]

I think a certain amount of leeway should be allowed to very small children, so long as it's clear the parents are making some reasonably consistant effort to train them, but once a child is in school, certainly, it's old enough to understand that there are 'quiet times' one must respect. And of course babies cry when babies cry and there's not much you can do about it.

If there's a problem with noisy children, speak to the parents. After all, as in MsEva's case, the neighbors may not be aware how much sound is travelling into your apartment.

[Venus193]

If a family with small children lives in an apartment, with neighbours above, below and beside them, should there be any limits on how much noise they can make and when? 

Apartment is the key word above.  The answer is that noise limitations should be no different for families with children as for adults.  Other tenants have the right to a proper quality of life, which includes being able to converse, hear their music or TV, and sleep properly at night.

Apartment living presents the perfect opportunity to teach children proper manners.

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, I think it's fair to *expect* the children to keep to the same volume level as adults.  No, I wouldn't *demand* it, and I would also assume they won't live up to expectations all the time.  Children are still learning (even the older ones), and part of that learning will end up making noise.  (Learning not to stand on a wobbly chair to reach the top shelf, for instance, or learning what happens when you try to give the cat a bath.)  I would hate for the kids to learn that making any noise whatsoever will get them a whuppin' - I'd put noisemaking on par with "calling your sister a doodoohead" or "borrowing your brother's toys without permission."  Something they know they shouldn't do, but will probably happen anyway on occasion (and will result in some sort of mild punishment).

[Clara Bow]

I have a house, but I do have neighbors who live fairly close to us. We can be pretty noisy and not bother folks, but I like to leave the windows open in nice weather. So when the windows are open I have to assume that people can hear us a little more readily. So I try to keep things fairly quiet. I have a rambunctious three year old who thinks he's a top fuel dragster (which is loud for those of you who do not know) so we have to remind him to use his indoor voice. He does okay and we've not had any complaints.
I think it's fair to expect your neighbors to control the amount of noise their kids make. Crying is one thing though, sometimes little ones can't help it. But general loudness and top volume television is not acceptable.

[Gwywnnydd]

If a family with small children lives in an apartment, with neighbours above, below and beside them, should there be any limits on how much noise they can make and when? 

Absolutely. Quiet times are in effect for everyone, not just those of the age of majority...

Should they be allowed to make more noise than other tenants because they have children?
No. In fact, not just no, but H*!! no. Having children does *not* entitle you to special treatment.

Or if there should be limits, what should they be?
Time limits, as I said above (not before 8AM on weekdays, or 10PM on weekends, not after 8-9PM). No screaming/ shouting inside. No top-volume TV. No banging on the floor/ walls.

Now, I try to be understanding if it's a baby, heaven knows I was the recipient of that understanding often enough. And I understand that kids aren't always going to *remember* the rules (they *know* them, they just get carried away). In that case, I'll ask the family to keep the noise down, but try not to get irritated by the noise.   

[Evil Duckie]

If a family with small children lives in an apartment, with neighbours above, below and beside them, should there be any limits on how much noise they can make and when?

Yes there should be limits on noise. While expecting the children to be as quite as one or two responsible adults is unrealistic due to them learning. Reasonable would be no loud t.v. especially at night. No running, once in a while this might happen but it should not be common. No throwing toys inside, again like running will happen once in a while.
No screaming or banging.  

You will have times when you will hear crying or laughing. Children will cry and laugh occasionally and can't really be expected not to. You will have more living noises due to children always being on the move, but this should not be like running, throwing, screaming, etc.

It is also reasonable that they also keep "quite hours" 10pm- 5am like everyone else.

[NOVA Lady]

I agree with most of what was said here. I would expect children to keep their noise level to the same standard level as adults are held to. Just because a household has a child does not mean that all those living around a household must suffer.

When me and SO had looked into living arraingments (before we found our current digs) we were looking to avoid small children so high rises were out, as were garden style type units, next on our list was anywhere that had plastic play school stuff. But other then that people cannot avoid children (except for the eldering, the only type of "discrimination" allowed in housing, a minimum age limit) because having a child-free living community would not be legal (too bad).

As for the babies crying, sure I understand but sometimes its ridiculous. We had a next door neighbor 4 years ago who had a baby and decided she was going to do that "raising children the family way" or whatever that is (bergerizing) where you basically let the baby cry for however long it cries for (the theory says the baby is trying to manipulate mom/dad by crying and not to let in).

Well she definetly followed this method. One day I could not take it anymore. I was studying for some finals and was sitting in the room furthest away from our common wall (it was a walk in closet!) and the baby cried on/off for 7 hours before I had had it. This was after 3 months of this method and I had enough. I marched down to the property management office, marched them up to my unit and made them sit there and listen (we shared a bedroom wall and part of the living room wall as well). It was deafening my unit. ALL night ALL day. That poor baby it makes me so sad. But THAT should not be allowed. Its nice she was trying to different method and one can raise their kids how they want but not if it infringes so drastically on someone else!

[freakyfemme]

Its nice she was trying to different method and one can raise their kids how they want but not if it infringes so drastically on someone else!

No it's not "nice," that's abusive.  Babies aren't smart enough to be manipulative.

[FoxPaws]

As for the babies crying, sure I understand but sometimes its ridiculous. We had a next door neighbor 4 years ago who had a baby and decided she was going to do that "raising children the family way" or whatever that is (bergerizing) where you basically let the baby cry for however long it cries for (the theory says the baby is trying to manipulate mom/dad by crying and not to let in).

I have never heard of this - it sounds inhumane to me. She's lucky all you did was call the apartment manager; some people would have called Children's Services.

[ClaireC79]

My neighbour let their baby cry for ages as well (and normally it doesn't bother me at all - my youngest was only a few months older at that point - well still is but the neighbour doesn't live there) what got to me (aside from the fact that my breasts would start to go at any crying baby) was that I couldn't hear them try to comfort the baby.  If I can hear someone trying to soothe the baby then fine, it happens but not to let the baby scream on and on.

I know I was told as a rough rule of thumb with crying it out was not to leave baby for more than 1 minute per month of their life (ie you could leave a 4 month old baby cry for 4 minutes at a time, 8 months 8 minutes) which seemed reasonable