children - how much noise is too much?

[NOVA Lady]

My neighbour let their baby cry for ages as well (and normally it doesn't bother me at all - my youngest was only a few months older at that point - well still is but the neighbour doesn't live there) what got to me (aside from the fact that my breasts would start to go at any crying baby) was that I couldn't hear them try to comfort the baby.  If I can hear someone trying to soothe the baby then fine, it happens but not to let the baby scream on and on.

I know I was told as a rough rule of thumb with crying it out was not to leave baby for more than 1 minute per month of their life (ie you could leave a 4 month old baby cry for 4 minutes at a time, 8 months 8 minutes) which seemed reasonable

WOW I wished my ex neighbor had that rule in her household! This poor child cried for hours each day and I don't know how it could not have just torn her up inside to hear that! I am sure the baby was fine, but the poor thing must have been miserable. I don't know whether the method works because the baby continued to "manipulate" mom by screaming for hours.

We end up breaking our lease, with the blessing of the property manager because I threatened to take them to tenant-landlord court. I was not getting quiet enjoyment of my apartment. I could not use the apartment for the things we needed (sleep was awful as we shared that wall with them, studying during the day for me was impossible and I would just go to the library). Finally we were just fed up and said that unless the mom and child were gone we would be.

They wanted to charge us a fine, but agreed to skip it after I tape recorded the noise in my apartment at 2am at 6am at 10am. Basically around the clock so they knew I was not kidding. The baby cried SOOOO much.


I can see letting it cry for a few minutes like you said, and really its a baby, we wouldn't enjoy hearing it scream but it'd be going away. Not THIS baby.

I just wanted to make the point that while screaming infants should get a bit of leeway something it can be helped, if the parent would just comfort their child!

[sammycat]

I also agree with the general consensus that there should be limits on noise.  Children shouldn't get a free pass to make life miserable for those around them simply because they are children.  I've never lived in an apartment or duplex but I know that when my family stays in hotels that I don't let my children make all sorts of noises.  That same courtesy, however, doesn't seem to occur to other hotel guests judging by the amount of noise (children and adults) I hear coming from other rooms.

A few years ago we were looking to rent a property for 9 months while our new house was being built.  We found a wonderful place, at a good price, good location etc.  The only drawback was that it was in a townhouse complex.  Ultimately we decided against it as we didn't think it was fair to subject the other tenants to the noise our children then aged 3 and 7 would make.  Nor did we want to be subjected to the noise of the other tenants' children.

Re. the baby that cried on and off for 7 hours - are you sure the mother wasn't passed out drunk or on drugs or something to let it go on that long?  I  think I'd have been calling the authorities after that long as I'd have to assume something wasn't right.

[ladiedeathe]

Tiny hijack...

Our apartment is great, with nice thick soundproof walls. The hall and front door, however, are another story. If you are in the living room you can hear everything in the hall/common area between the 4 apts just as if you were out there.

The neighbor's kids are girls in the 12-14 range. For awhile they and their friends would hang out in the hall/common area and talk, laugh, gossip, whatever. It started to happen later and later, like when we were trying to sit and read at night, or watch TV. I accidentally came up with the perfect solution...

One night I sat on the couch, unavoidably listening to a group of girls talking about boys, school, etc. When they started debating on whether or not one of the boys really did like the girl's hair like he said, I waited for a break and said, loudly, "Well, I think he really liked it- he said the braids were pretty and he thought the blue tips were good. Why don't you get a shirt that color and see what he says?"

There was a moment of silence and then hysterical giggles from the whole group, with some running and silly thumping. A few minutes later they were all in their apartment, still cracking up.

Oh, and regarding the original post, no one has a right to disturb the neighbors.

[Venus193]

Re. the baby that cried on and off for 7 hours - are you sure the mother wasn't passed out drunk or on drugs or something to let it go on that long?  I  think I'd have been calling the authorities after that long as I'd have to assume something wasn't right.

The bride in the July wedding I attended was a baby like this.  According to her (very doting) parents she cried 24/7 for the first three years of her life.  They were at their wits' end.  When she finally slept through the night they panicked; they thought she was dead!  There was no medical problem that could be identified then and the parents weren't abusive.  Some parents definitely don't luck out on this one, so soundproof walls are a good idea.

[wetblanket]

I find all your replies very reassuring (well, except for the part about allowing a baby to cry for hours - that's very bad for the baby and everyone around it).

I wish my neighbours had a clue.  Their kids bang and crash and thump for hours on end, every day.  My neighbours claim that they are "not making any noise".  Huh?  Children don't make noise?  Ever?  

I think my neighbours have a sense of entitlement about their kids.  As in: special rules apply for children, so any and all complaints about noise are invalid.

I say:  Whatever your lifestyle, you have to keep it contained to your living quarters.

I think it would be funny to have really loud s@x every night (or just pretend to) until they finally complained and then I could say "What's the problem?  We're just trying to make some kids of our own! You like kids right?"

 

[NOVA Lady]

I find all your replies very reassuring (well, except for the part about allowing a baby to cry for hours - that's very bad for the baby and everyone around it).

I wish my neighbours had a clue.  Their kids bang and crash and thump for hours on end, every day.  My neighbours claim that they are "not making any noise".  Huh?  Children don't make noise?  Ever?  

I think my neighbours have a sense of entitlement about their kids.  As in: special rules apply for children, so any and all complaints about noise are invalid.

I say:  Whatever your lifestyle, you have to keep it contained to your living quarters.

I think it would be funny to have really loud s@x every night (or just pretend to) until they finally complained and then I could say "What's the problem?  We're just trying to make some kids of our own! You like kids right?"

 

I find the same people who have an entitlement atitude about their children also have one for themselves. Though I want to roll my eyes and run whenever I hear anyone say, "oh it juuuuuust a kid!". Kids can be taught to control themselves and caring parents who put in the effort are rewarded.

I don't care for the atitude that children cannot be expected not to scream in a restuarant because they're a kid, They cannot be expected not to scream instead of talking inside because they're a kid. People who say this must not know a lot of kids, because the majority I come across know better.

[EvilAlice]

The concept of "indoor voice" needs to be taught as soon as the kid becomes verbal.

Yes, but I have to add- just because a child is OUTSIDE doesn't mean it's ok for them to make all the noise in the world, either.

If kids are playing a game and shrieking and screaming and it's really loud- it annoys me, but in the context of a game they're playing, if it's reasonable hours and they're not too close to me, I don't begrudge them that for a short period of time.  I do hope that an adult will come along and tell them to keep it down to a dull roar.  Now, this is living in a house where I have a bit of a buffer zone outside- I've lived in apartments where people seemed it was ok for their kids to shriek all over the breezeways because technically they were outside.  Nothing like sitting in your apartment hearing not only the sound but also the echo of Big Wheels and shrieking screeching kiddies.

I also have a neighbor child who seems to scream just for the sake of screaming.  I hear her ALL THE TIME.  No other kids involved.  Just sudden, note holding, high pitched blood curdling screams.  My mother would not have put up with that from us for a minute.  If you scream like that, you better be dying.  Her parents never seem to even attempt to shut her up.  I assume they are deaf, how could you not be after living with that?  I think it's incredibly rude of them to let her go on like this.  I keep thinking she'll outgrow it but I've lived here 4 years and still hear her all the time when I'm outside.  Every time I hear her I have this fantasy that she is being abducted and relocated to her natural habitat.

[Pixie]

I believe crying babies and barking dogs should have the same rule of thumb.... if it has gone on long enough, often enough to make you change YOUR lifestyle to accommodate the noise, its too much.

  However, be prepared for the "You HATE children" or  "You HATE dogs" comments should you decide to complain.  General you, not specific to any poster.

Once upon a time, Hubby and I were turned into the police for allowing our dog to bark constantly at all hours of the day and night.    The nice police officer about laughed his behind off when I informed him that we didn't have a dog, hadn't had one for 10 years, and while we do have 2 cats, they really don't bark that loud.

Oh yes, there was also the time the police came over to check out our back yard which supposedly covered in dog poo....... we had just had the yard aerated which left little plugs of soil all over the yard. It did resemble poo, but it wasn't. I wondered who complained because it was in our fully fenced back yard and was not visible from the street or sidewalk.    The nice police officer thought that was an interesting question, and ran off to get more info..... never heard another word about it.    STILL don't have a dog.

 

[blue2000]

Not all methods work for all babies. My mother told me she tried the "crying out" thing with me.
She had to stop using this, because apparently I was a horrible child who would shriek non-stop, no matter what, until someone came for me.  And I have known at least one other baby who did the same thing.

If I had a child like this in an apartment, I think I would have to change parenting methods, or living arrangements. A parent is expected to put up with a great deal in terms of noise, because they chose to have the baby, and they are choosing the parenting methods.
But the neighbors did not get a choice in the matter. They should not have to put up with the consequences of those choices.

[Brentwood]

 No running, yelling, screaming or general nosiness after 9pm.

Does that mean I can be nosy before 9pm?

[Heavenly]

I have been able to find it w/ 2 dogs I think people should be able to manage w/ their kids.

AH HA HA HA HA!!!!  You're kidding, right? 

Anyone else notice the disparity of "acceptable" quiet times in the responses.  Anywhere from before 5:00am to after 10:00pm.  Hee Hee.  And...I hate to tell you all this, but my toddler doesn't keep "weekend" hours.  He gets up at 7:00am every day no matter what.  I can't just tell him to sleep in--he doesn't understand that concept yet.  I would LOVE to sleep in, but I birthed a morning person...sigh.  Yes...I do try to keep him quiet, but 3 hours of being quiet just isn't going to happen.  Sorry.

No...I don't think you (general you) hate children.  But I DO think you don't understand that I can't just put my children on a chair and tell them to be quiet for most of their waking hours.  That is considered abuse.  Nor are they animals to be sent to obedience school and smacked on the nose when they pee or bark.  They are undergrown adults with their own personalities and temperaments who laugh, run, and play more than grown up adults.  This is healthy and normal.

I do my best to keep the noise level down, but I'm not going to discipline my child because he/she was excited about something and ran down the hall to tell me.  If you complain about the noise, I might be just as inclined to talk to you about the x-box competition you and your "adult" friends had (complete with yelling and loud sound effects) until 11:00pm--or the cocktail party that got louder and louder as your guests got drunker and drunker until 1:00am.  People who live in glass houses...

Point is--it goes both ways.  People with children should attempt to keep things as quiet as possible and people without children should as well.  What you consider to be quiet may not be feasible with small children and what you consider to be an acceptable noise level for your TV may be keeping a toddler from getting a nap.

[MsEva]

Anyone else notice the disparity of "acceptable" quiet times in the responses.  Anywhere from before 5:00am to after 10:00pm.  Hee Hee.  And...I hate to tell you all this, but my toddler doesn't keep "weekend" hours.  He gets up at 7:00am every day no matter what.  I can't just tell him to sleep in--he doesn't understand that concept yet.  I would LOVE to sleep in, but I birthed a morning person...sigh.  Yes...I do try to keep him quiet, but 3 hours of being quiet just isn't going to happen.  Sorry.

No...I don't think you (general you) hate children.  But I DO think you don't understand that I can't just put my children on a chair and tell them to be quiet for most of their waking hours.  That is considered abuse.  Nor are they animals to be sent to obedience school and smacked on the nose when they pee or bark.  They are undergrown adults with their own personalities and temperaments who laugh, run, and play more than grown up adults.  This is healthy and normal.

I do my best to keep the noise level down, but I'm not going to discipline my child because he/she was excited about something and ran down the hall to tell me.  If you complain about the noise, I might be just as inclined to talk to you about the x-box competition you and your "adult" friends had (complete with yelling and loud sound effects) until 11:00pm--or the cocktail party that got louder and louder as your guests got drunker and drunker until 1:00am.  People who live in glass houses...

Point is--it goes both ways.  People with children should attempt to keep things as quiet as possible and people without children should as well.  What you consider to be quiet may not be feasible with small children and what you consider to be an acceptable noise level for your TV may be keeping a toddler from getting a nap.

If you cannot teach your child what is acceptable behavior when living so close to other people, then you shouldn't probably live in a multi-unit dwelling. An occasional outburst is probably expected, but if it is so constant that you are disturbing people then maybe you should get the child to a park where he can burn off some of that energy. Making sure that your child doesn't cause great disturbances to others is truly your responsibility as a parent. You can do it by teaching him to play quietly for a few hours, or you can do it by taking him somewhere else.

If your neighbors bother you with unacceptable behavior, then you have every right to complain to the proper authorities. If I was your neighbor, the only time you would know of my existance would have been if your child was making too much noise too often. I am a very quiet person and my neighbors would occasionally check on me if they hadn't seen me since they could never hear me.

BTW, I have a very active toddler that is up no later than 7AM. She knows to keep it down for an hour or so if mommy says so. She has also never been forced to sit on a chair for most of her waking hours, nor has she ever been smacked on the nose (or anywhere else for that matter). We live in a house, but certain behaviors are just not tolerated.

[Irish Clovers]

I own a condo on the 2nd floor.  When my daughter lived with me and for any kids that come over, I implemented the "condo walk".  No running, no jumping, no walking loudly, no screaming, no yelling and no loud music.  Period.  It's just rude. 

[Heavenly]

If you cannot teach your child what is acceptable behavior when living so close to other people, then you shouldn't probably live in a multi-unit dwelling. An occasional outburst is probably expected, but if it is so constant that you are disturbing people then maybe you should get the child to a park where he can burn off some of that energy. Making sure that your child doesn't cause great disturbances to others is truly your responsibility as a parent. You can do it by teaching him to play quietly for a few hours, or you can do it by taking him somewhere else.

I believe I was responding to what the other posters had said about children in their complexes.  I never said that MY children were a problem, in fact, I am frequently complimented on their good behavior.  I did say that making my child stay "quiet" for 3 hours on a weekend morning so someone could sleep off their party probably wasn't going to happen.  One hour, two hours maybe...three--no.  Taking my child to the park in the middle of a Northwest winter simply is not an option. 

Secondly...not everyone is as lucky as you to be able to choose whether or not they will live in a house or a multi unit dwelling.  Trust me--I would love to live in a house, but it's just not in the budget right now.

She has also never been forced to sit on a chair for most of her waking hours, nor has she ever been smacked on the nose (or anywhere else for that matter).

Also responding to other posters who suggested that parents with children simply teach them to sit quietly in one place all day or train them as they have trained their animals.  These are not dolls nor animals--they are children.

Perhaps you should read my post again?

[Bea]

Perhaps it differs by state, but I recently read on a legal website (while researching the issue w/ my neighbors mentioned in the Life... In General category) that landlords can refuse to rent to people with small children.  It depends on the style of dwelling- the article I read mentioned that this restriction is allowed with duplexes.  I can't find the original page just now but if anyone is interested I'll dig it up.