Author Topic: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)  (Read 8060 times)

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Curly Wurly Doggie Breath

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2011, 02:32:39 AM »
OP, you're fine, you were not rude or anything

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Mental Magpie

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2011, 02:42:07 AM »
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I really want to get away from him, but once again, I can't break away mid song.

Yes. Yes, you can.

And no, it's not rude to refuse an offer to dance.

I'm going to disagree slightly .  In this circumstance is it not rude to refuse even a first request to dance.  In a more "proper" formal setting you should dance once with each person you've been introduced to who asks(or not dance at all/stop dancing) In the most formal seetings dancing is still just like conversation , you're expected to be able to converse with anyone who wishes to speak to for at a party for 2-5 minutes. Of course all guests are suppose to be vetted so they would never plant kisses , have roving hands and will not persist in monopolising your time .

I think we need to stop dog piling on Merry Mrs Martin.  Her was response was to Cathy saying "It's not rude to refuse an offer to dance".  All Merry Mrs Martin was saying was that in some circumstances, it is rude to refuse.  Further, Merry Mrs Martin also made sure to say that it was not rude in that circumstance (the one about which the OP was speaking).

Two people - including me - responded to Merry Mrs Martin. That is hardly dogpiling. There actually was no reason to bring in the etiquette of a formal situation because most of us are basing our advice on the situation actually described in the OP. Had the question been, "Is it rude to refuse to dance with my new FIL at my wedding?", the answers might have been different. However, that was not the question. The question was specifically about a bar situation.

My apologies, I did over generalize by saying there was dog piling.

However, we often bring up other instances where something may be rude but when there are instances it isn't.  I see no reason to even comment to Merry Mrs Martin that it wasn't a formal situation; she addressed that in her comment then moved on to a situation in which it may be rude.  It was not irrelevant to the topic.

Also, had the question been, "Is it rude to refuse to dance with my new FIL at my wedding?", someone very well might have answered, "Yes, but if it were a less formal situation, it probably wouldn't."  There is nothing with addressing the actual question then addressing it as it might apply to other situations.
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AmyBird85

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2011, 05:06:47 PM »
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)

Reader

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2011, 09:51:21 AM »
That second time, you could certainly have broken away mid-song without being rude in any way. He was the rude one for grabbing you that way.

POD to this.  I often go out to pubs/bars that have dancing by myself.  I often go to just dance because I really like to dance.  You are never under any obligation to stay dancing with someone especially when they become inappropriate.  I have horror stories of guys thinking just because I am dancing at the club means I have loose scrabble morals and have tried groping me inside my pants are other bits when I was in my twenties.  Or there was the one guy who thought it great fun to pick me up during dancing with no warning and swing me on a crowded dance floor.  If I am on the floor and someone tries to pull me to dance without asking I quickly pull my hand back and shake my head no when the music is loud.

camlan

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2011, 10:32:01 AM »
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)

Re the bolded: Merry Mrs. Martin touched on this, but I think it bears repeating--even in the most formal of circumstances, a woman can refuse to dance with any one who asks her. At a formal dance, she would then have to sit out that dance, in order to spare the feelings of the man who had asked her (even if the man of her dreams asked her to dance that particular dance). But there has never, that I know of, been a rule that a woman *had* to dance with a man just because he asked her.
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rashea

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2011, 01:24:46 PM »
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback! Much appreciated and it has put my mind at rest!  ;D

I just wanted to verify as to whether the "rude to refuse a dance" theory applied only to formal settings or whether it applied to anywhere. Rest assured now that I will not feel guilty if someone approaches me in a bar to dance and I turn them away. Especially with all of the drunks and other less than desirable types. As I mentioned before, I don't mind dancing with anyone as long as they keep it clean and regard it as just a dance. Needless to say, I did not let the incident ruin my night!  ;)

Re the bolded: Merry Mrs. Martin touched on this, but I think it bears repeating--even in the most formal of circumstances, a woman can refuse to dance with any one who asks her. At a formal dance, she would then have to sit out that dance, in order to spare the feelings of the man who had asked her (even if the man of her dreams asked her to dance that particular dance). But there has never, that I know of, been a rule that a woman *had* to dance with a man just because he asked her.

By strict Emily Post:
 To refuse to dance with one man and then immediately dance with another is an open affront to the first one—excusable only if he was intoxicated or otherwise actually offensive so that the affront was both intentional and justifiable. But under ordinary circumstances, if she is “dancing,” she must dance with everyone who asks her; if she is “not dancing,” she must not make exceptions.

Actually, I think in this case, his behavior was offensive enough to the OP (you don't just start grind style dancing without knowing for sure the other person is into it) that I don't see an issue with refusing him. But, after he asked a second time, I'd just tell him I wasn't interested in general.
"Manners change, principles don't. It's about treating people with consideration, respect and honesty." Peter Post

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Venus193

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2011, 01:34:45 PM »
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By strict Emily Post:
To refuse to dance with one man and then immediately dance with another is an open affront to the first one—excusable only if he was intoxicated or otherwise actually offensive so that the affront was both intentional and justifiable. But under ordinary circumstances, if she is “dancing,” she must dance with everyone who asks her; if she is “not dancing,” she must not make exceptions.

Considering that this rule comes from an era of s3xual repression I am perplexed that this demands unwanted touching of women who are assumed to be chaste or proper.

Of course there were many more layers of fabric in between and the lambada hadn't yet been invented.

I stopped going to Midsummer Night's Swing years ago because only the most repulsive men would ask me to dance.  Men who had been rejected by more attractive women because of bad breath or body odor.

DavidH

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2011, 02:03:52 PM »
I see nothing wrong with how you behaved and, although there wasn't a question, a great deal wrong with how he behaved.

Even though formal dances are more rare, some of the etiquette can carry over, e.g. you don't just cut in or haul the person away from who she is dancing with, you ask for the next dance or perhaps join the group dancing after asking or at least getting some positive feedback. 

Once the person had taken liberties with your person, a flat no is just fine, until then, some polite fiction is nice as in, "No thank you, I'm sitting this dance out" or "No thank you, I was just going to have a drink."

As has been alluded to, responding, "No, I'm sitting this one out" followed by saying yes to the person who asks a minute later is rather rude since it kind of ruins the fiction behind I'm sitting this one out.


rashea

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2011, 02:46:57 PM »

Even though formal dances are more rare, some of the etiquette can carry over, e.g. you don't just cut in or haul the person away from who she is dancing with, you ask for the next dance or perhaps join the group dancing after asking or at least getting some positive feedback. 


Oddly, this was considered acceptable. I think some of it may come from the fact that the most formal dances were hosted. So it was assumed that the people there had been vetted carefully by the host/hostess and so that would eliminate the worst offenders.
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poundcake

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2011, 03:46:04 PM »
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If that man had kissed me after a single dance I wouldn't have been half as nice as you were.

I actually think this here is the real center of the issue. OP is worried about being "rude" under these circumstances, and she's asked to be reassured that she wasn't, that in fact she was "nice" and "polite." But there is no reason why she had to be nice or polite to a drunk man who invaded her personal space. I'm not saying she had to scream "No, I won't dance with you, you drunk disgusting pig!" but she was in no way obligated to dance with or interact with this guy, any guy, at all.

Yes, you can refuse to dance with someone.
Yes, you can refuse to go out with someone.
No, you don't have to give reasons.

I sometimes go dancing with friends because I like the music and I like to dance, and since I'm married, I have no interest in dancing with anyone but my friends. When I get asked to dance, a simple "No thanks!" works. I've had a few guys be pushy and ask repeatedly, or demand to know why. "I said no, thank you" is a perfectly acceptable and polite follow-up. (This usually results in me being called a b*tch, not because I was impolite, but because they didn't get what they wanted and feel slighted.)

No matter how nice or polite a person is when asking for something, another person is not obligated to give it to them, be it a dollar, a date, or their dinner. And that doesn't make you "rude" any more than giving someone something that makes you uncomfortable makes you "nice."

Gyburc

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2011, 09:06:03 AM »
I think you did fine, and if it ever happens again, don't be worried about just saying 'no, thanks'. I did find it funny that even CB's friend knew he was being an oaf!

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Carotte

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2011, 03:20:16 PM »
Safety trumps etiquette, as soon as you feel uneasy or threatened you should stop the situation, even if it means being rude to someone.
Stopping dancing in the middle of a song can seem weird, so you could always say that you need to step out for fresh air, that you just saw someone you need to talk to....

Nikko-chan

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2011, 08:08:35 PM »
I have actually been there before. Not with a dance partner mind you, but with an odd guy sitting on the bench. I thought nothing of it, and when he moved himself close to me, my internal alarm went off and I made an excuse about having to go talk to some friends. Creepy Guy actually grabbed onto me from behind as I went to stand up, and held me close. I screamed, but because of how loud the music is in the establishment no one heard (or even saw) what was going on. It scared the heck out of him though and he left me alone.

All of that to say... I agree with the other posters in that you were not wrong in your actions. As for cutting the song short, you could have indeed done that if you were squicked out, and if something seemed "off".

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2011, 09:38:38 PM »
Chiming in a little late here, but there is a simple, four-word phrase that anyone can say when someone steps over the manners line : "I beg your pardon?" If OP had said it at the first slippy kiss and then turned and walked away, Cig Guy would not have asked for a second dance -- probably; some guys need the proverbial clue-by-four upside the head.

jayhawk

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Re: Refusing a dance with a pushy man (pub gig environment- long-ish)
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2011, 06:20:04 AM »
I've been thinking about this a little, and it occured to me that 40 years ago, this "gentleman" behavior (especially the kiss) would have earned him a smart slap across the face for being fresh.  Don't know if it's e-hell approved (probably not), but it would've certainly sent the message that his attentions were not invited or appreciated.